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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campagnolo Paris-Roubaix posted by: Mara on 1/6/2002 at 3:42:43 PM
A friend of mine has a campagnolo paris-roubaix gear, tooth-gear campagnolo drop-outs and FB hubs. He is looking to sell and would like to know the value. Can anybody give any indication?

   Campagnolo Paris-Roubaix posted by John E on 1/6/2002 at 9:31:25 PM
The value of a collectible this rare depends on its condition. Specimens of the P-R's precursor, the Cambio Corsa, have fetched multiple hundreds of dollars each on eBay. Do not let this go cheaply! Perhaps your friend should consider listing it on e Bay.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by: Tim on 1/6/2002 at 8:13:26 AM
From an ad saying 'handbuilt aluminum race bike', I bought a lovely 1972 (??) Raleigh Competition (531, not aluminum) from its original owner. The frame is black, 'Guaranteed Built with ... 531 fork blades, stays and butted frame tubes'. The graphics aren't like other Raleighs of the era I've seen - it's not the blocky-script Raleigh, but a very finely detailed classical script in gold and white. There is also fine hand-painted striping on the tubes in gold and white. Also in fine script on the seat tube: Hand Built by Raleigh Cycles, Nottingham, England.

It had Suntour VX derailleurs, which looked very unexceptional, along with downright ugly Weineman brakes. I have upgraded with (roughly) correct era Shimano 600 / Dura Ace. The hubs are Normandy, and I found some gold Ambrosia rims to replace Araya.

Really ... I'd like to do the whole bike in Campy NR - the frame is that good. I had a 70's Raleigh Professional track frame once, and compared the two. The Competition seamed every bit as nice.

So what was the role of the Competition in the Raleigh line-up? Does it have specific geometry and purpose (e.g:criterium), or was it just a way to sell a Professional-quality frame with cheaper components? What could be its value now?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by Kevin K on 1/6/2002 at 1:24:16 PM
Hi Tim. The 531 usually denotes a steel frame bike. Does the decal say aluminum? The Raliegh bikes from the 60's and 70's are very nice pieces to own even if it's just the lowly Gran Prix model. Your Competition model sounds very nice and fitting it with period correct pieces makes it all the nicer. Just my my two cents. I'd stick with all European components though vs mixing with Japanese.Enjoy the ride. Kevin

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by Walter on 1/6/2002 at 1:36:38 PM
There's a retro Raleigh site that could help you out. They changed servers or something so "retro" or "Raleigh" isn't part of the URL anymore. A good search engine should find it. If memory serves the "International" was their top liner and the "Competition" was right below it. A full 531 frame is definitely high quality. The NR is probably appropriate though early DuraAce wouldn't be a terrible choice and would shift at least as well as the NR stuff. Nice bike any way you go with it.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by Skip Echert on 1/8/2002 at 3:11:52 AM
Hello Tim -
The retro Raleigh site is now
Loads of information.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by Keith on 1/8/2002 at 3:12:42 AM
The Competition was the third bike in the Raleigh line in the early to mid-1970s, after the Professional (#1), and International (#2). It was spec'd with a wide variety of components over the years, from Campy Gran Sport to Huret Jubilee to Suntour. If it's a 1972, the Shimano 600/Dura Ace would not be "correct," (I think DA's 1st year was '74 or '75) although I don't object personally -- I don't think it's thst important (I recently outfitted a Raleigh Super Course with Shimano Deore and a triple crank because it meets my needs better than the stock double). Nouvo Record is great - my favorite friction shift derailleur, despite what Frank Berto says. You can find nice used ones fairly cheap, or pay through the nose for new old stock ("NOS"). Gran Sport is available too at a lower price. The Dura Ace/600 stuff (I have early friction examples of both) really works just as well, even if it lacks the Campy Euro-mystique.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by Pete on 1/8/2002 at 10:50:54 AM
Tim wrote:
>Really ... I'd like to do the whole bike in Campy NR - the >frame is that good. I had a 70's Raleigh Professional >track frame once, and compared the two. The Competition >seamed every bit as nice.

I agree, I have a black 1980 model and bought it as a frame and fork.
I built it up with Nouvo Record and it turned out very nicely. (Had to use the Campy Gran Sport headset due to stack height.) As mentioned see the Retro Raleigh site.
I'm hard pressed to see much difference between my Comp GS frame and a Professional of the same year.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by Sun on 1/8/2002 at 11:27:48 AM
Are you sure about that retro raliegh website address?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by Keith on 1/8/2002 at 3:30:14 PM
The Retro Raleigh address is: http://www.speakeasy.org/'tabula/raleigh/raleigh-history.html The Competition was not a Professional with a different groupo. The Professionals I've seen have had cleaner brazing overall than the lower models. As much as I've loved my 70s Raleighs (1 International, 2 Super Courses), I don't think the workmanship on any of them is spectacular. My theory, which applies to all of the major manufacturers, is that when demand doubled and tripled at the height of the 70s bike boom, they moved frame makers up the line who'd worked on lower models, and or they rushed the skilled workers. Believe me, lugged frames, even nice ones, can be mass produced (Trek did this -- the current Rivendell builder used to make many frames a day, some unbelievable number like 50, compared to several days he now takes to make one Rivendell). As for value, I believe I've seen complete and clean examples go on eBay for about $200 to $250. I'd think the ones with Huret Jubilee would be more valuable.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Cometition posted by Pete on 1/8/2002 at 8:54:58 PM
As said they are production bikes and subject to variations in workmanship. I'm sure the rush to fill orders had an effect on quality.
Maybe that's why my 1980 Competition looks pretty darn good next to the 74 Professional.(in this case there are obvious differences- the seatstays and fork crown for starters)
I remember when Bicycle Classics had new in box Professionals and I thought they looked a lot like my Comp GS. Of course I've missed subtleties before. I kind of think a later International looks enough like my SuperCourse to seem like a duplicate. I guess I should hold out for an older one.

AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by: Peter Castllanos on 1/6/2002 at 4:16:20 AM
Hey Guys,
I've found another bike !
It's a Motobecane, without series markings. I have NO idea what it is. All Simplex gearing, Wienmann brakes, and Diacompe shifters. Pretty average ? Well it looks much like a modern hybrid, by which I mean the handlebars, it's NOT like that of a road bike's. It has the dual railed top tubes, they're called tri- something, I can't remember the name.
I intend on purchasing the bike, its fairly cheap.
No, VERY cheap. I shall get some pics, which I'm sure helps.
I would like any info on this bike as it may be a keeper!
Or where to find it, be it websites, books etc. It seems that I am now in the bicycle business.
So far I've acumulated a few vintage road bikes and have sold them to friends and their friends.
I sold the Mercier that I acquired for 50.00 dollars ( 2 weeks ago if anyone remembers ) and I'm afraid the 'bug' has got me. I would apreciate any info and insight.
And as always THANKS for the help I always need and by the generosity of everyone here @ VVVintage/Vintage Bicycle Discussion Area !
'Peter C.

   Motobecane Mixte? posted by John E on 1/6/2002 at 3:19:15 PM
If it has thin dual top tubes which run from the top of the headtube to the rear dropouts, it's a unisex, or Mixte style frame. Unless it is built with Reynolds 531, Vitus, CrMo, or other molybdenum alloy steel, it's probably comparable to the Peugeot UO-18, the Mixte equivalent of the ubiquitous UO-8 of the 1970s. These bikes make wonderful commuters, transportation beaters, etc.

   RE:Motobecane Mixte? posted by Peter Castellanos on 1/6/2002 at 3:28:42 PM
Thanks John,
It is a Mixte frame, I simply forgot the terminology.
I'll go and get it today, put some new tires on it and clean her up and take it for a spin.
Thanks for your help !
'Peter C.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Voyageur posted by: Walter on 1/5/2002 at 2:45:59 AM
Nice bike on ebay (Item # 1056600177). Sits apart from Japanese Schwinns as it's a chrome model. I remember being very impressed by a chrome Super LeTour in the late 70s.

The chrome models are, I believe, mildly collectable though frankly I don't think anyone will do the "Buy it Now" option.

MISC:   Colnago? posted by: Bob on 1/5/2002 at 2:22:30 AM
I saw it in a pile of old bicycles. The badge is a flattened oval with letters in script "C O L (or R?) N A G O". the third letter is either an "L" with a short loop or an "R" with a very fancy loop. Badge says "Made in Italy", may be "Hand Made in Italy".

Brakes are Universal centerpull, cranks are cottered -- couldn't see what sort. This could be a 50's vintage -- it would match the other junk in the pile. I couldn't really get a good look at it without moving alot of junk. If this is a 50's Colnago frame then it is certainly worth the effort. Handlebars look to be Cinelli, but I couldn't see a logo.

Anyone know anything about old Colnago badges?

MISC:   Colnago? posted by: Bob on 1/5/2002 at 2:22:30 AM
I saw it in a pile of old bicycles. The badge is a flattened oval with letters in script "C O L (or R?) N A G O". the third letter is either an "L" with a short loop or an "R" with a very fancy loop. Badge says "Made in Italy", may be "Hand Made in Italy".

Brakes are Universal centerpull, cranks are cottered -- couldn't see what sort. This could be a 50's vintage -- it would match the other junk in the pile. I couldn't really get a good look at it without moving alot of junk. If this is a 50's Colnago frame then it is certainly worth the effort. Handlebars look to be Cinelli, but I couldn't see a logo.

Anyone know anything about old Colnago badges?

   RE:MISC:   Colnago? posted by Bob on 1/5/2002 at 10:42:28 PM
I am not sure what -- if anything -- I have found. The bike is located about 60 miles north of here in the middle of the Arizona high desert. The fellow who has it has thousands of bikes, much of it is "yard sale" stuff. I spent about an hour looking through it. There was an Olmo and this "Colnago" -- both frame & fork with partial components.

I will have to wait a couple of weeks until I have some "bike money" and then drive back up and have a closer look. From our conversation he doesn't seem to know much about European makes. That doesn't mean his price will be low. This guy tends to be a bit overpriced on his stuff, and these frames have been setting out for quite a while. They are really in a huge pile of Huffys and everything else imaginable. Probably an hour's work (each) to carefully disentangle them so that I can get a good look.

If this is a Colnago and the crank is cottered then I would think it would be no later than 1962. If the frame is not rusted then it may turn out to be a "find."

By the way, this guy has a fair number of older Japanese road bikes. One unbranded frame & fork has "3R 301" stamped on the BB. It has a "made in Japan" and some sort of carbon steel tubing sticker which I could not see very clearly. It had a "European" look to its geometry which caught my eye, and some fancy lugwork.

Any suggestions on what to look for when I go back?

   RE:MISC:   Colnago? posted by Walter on 1/6/2002 at 3:22:03 AM
I did some researching and according to some very knowledgable people pre-1970 Colnagos are rare to non-existant. In fact an eBay seller from Germany, "Cyclo24", has a current listing for a 1970 frame and claims he's never seen an older one. This seller routinely sells rare high quality vintage bikes and parts.

Bob, I hope you pulled that bike out of the heap b/c I'd love to see a thorough description. I've never heard of a Colnago with cottered cranks and there's a question if there were Colnagos during the time when quality bikes had such cranks.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Colnago? posted by Walter on 1/6/2002 at 3:31:30 AM
The Japanese bike sounds like it might be a 3Rensho which was a very high quality bike. There's a good website about 3Rensho but I can't find my bookmark. The maker learned his craft by taking apart Cinelli frames after the 1964(?) Tokyo Olympics so that would explain the "European" look. 3Renshos are by many accounts on a par with any frame made anywhere. The maker (whose name I don't recall) was paralyzed in an auto accident os there are no more to come.

However, the few I've seen on eBay have not drawn the money comparable Euro bikes have. Heavy guage carbon tubing is unexpected but if you take more than 1 frame that might be worthwhile.

   Ernesto Colnago posted by Steven on 1/6/2002 at 3:32:45 PM
Ernesto Colnago is not older than his mid-sixties, perhaps even late 50's. Even if he began to build frames at the requisite 14 years of age that was common at the time. He would not possibly have been able to sell his own 'named' frames before he was in his 20's. This would mean anything prior to the 60's is totally out of the question. About the oldest of the big names Italian builders still alive is Pinarello. Giovanni, commonly known as 'Nanni' is now in his late 70's. His frames go back tothe 50's. He no longer builds any frames himself but is still active in his shop in Treviso. The oldest of the builders still actively building themselves are Colnago, De Rosa and Gios. Like most Italian companies, they run family companies where their children and relatives are involved. At De Rosa in Milan, you can meet Ugo, any of his three sons or wife. Each has their own responsibility. Another thing about Italian builders is that they often sold run of the mill city bikes in their local market to make ends meet. Selling top notch racing frames is not a way to get rich, so it is very easy to find lowly steel clunker Pinarello's and such in Italy. These bikes were rarely exported however and therefore are not known to most enthusiasts. A heavy steel clunker with cottered cranks from Colnago could possibly be an 80's or even 90's Italian-market city bike worth as good as nothing.

   RE:Ernesto Colnago posted by Bob on 1/6/2002 at 4:36:31 PM
These are all reasons why I am hesitant to suppose that this bike represents a "find". I visited the history section of the Colnago web site and if I am understanding them correctly Colnago began building bikes under his own name in 1954.

I need to go back and take a closer look. The oval Colnago badge is still a problem in my mind -- it doesn't look anything like the current Colnago markings.

   RE:YES!!!!WEEL. MAYBE posted by Art on 1/6/2002 at 6:14:47 PM
Not to put a damper on your efforts, but the guy with the yard of bikes is an eclectic individual to say the least. Well known to bikies over the years for the mass amounts of cycles piled out at his intersection, almost anyone who has collected bikes in this state has ventured up to his site. The bikes sit out in the sun, rain, snow, and wind and while he doesn't know much about bikes, getting the guy to part with something and reasonably, if you can do it, will be a feat respected by a lot of us who have spent time working his mound, only to end up empty handed. In short, the guy is nuts and it seems that his prices inflate with your interest level. I've seen guys get to the point of handing the guy cash and he just takes the bike away and sticks it behind his trailer. Good luck.

   RE:RE:YES!!!!WEEL. MAYBE posted by Brian L. on 1/6/2002 at 6:29:07 PM
Even though I live in Seattle (aka bike mecca), My parents live just outside of Phoenix. I was just down there to see them a couple of months ago and we took a road trip north to the old mining town of Jerome. On the way up we spotted this unusual junkyard that was mostly motorcycles and bikes. Didn't stop then, but we did on the way back. Art, this has got to be the same place. Heaps and heaps of bikes, mostly junk. In fact, I spent an hour + looking (very patient parents) and the only things that I spotted worthwhile were some motorized Schwinns and Whizzers. He did have some nice cars and interesting motorcycles - but that kind of project is beyond me. Definitely did not see any Colnagos, Olmos or 3Renshos. Saw a few cheap imports with semi-Italian styling that initially caught my eye, but closer examination revealed more junk. Interestingly enough, I talked the the Owner's son, and apparently the whole pile was originally just south of Seattle in Federal Way. The guy actually moved his junkyard from Washington to Arizona one semi trailer load at a time.

   Colnago history, from www.colnago.com posted by John E on 1/6/2002 at 9:47:26 PM
According to the official Colnago website, the marque and the maker are older than we think [note also the reference to an apprenticeship at Gloria]:

"Ernesto Colnago was born in Cambiago, a 3,000 inhabitants village fifteen miles far from Milan, on the 9th of February 1932. "My parents' names were Antonio and Elvira. My parents were very proud peasants. When I was twelve years old, I went working in a workshop as a welder. I did not earn any money: my parents had to give the owner of that workshop four pounds of flour every week. It was the year 1944, the Second World War was not yet over, finding something to eat was not easy… On the 25th of November 1945 I went working in a bicycle factory called Gloria, in Milan. To let me work there, the owner of this factory forged my work-documents, as I was only 13 years old, the law didn't allow me to work in a factory. I had passion for the bikes, and sacrifices didn't frighten me. I became an amateur rider, in the year 1950 I won thirteen races. But owing to a bad crash, I had to stay 50 days with a broken leg: my career as a rider was over."

"For a boy who is eighteen years old, very active as I was, standing still was a torment. Then I had a good idea: I asked my factory to send me home some wheels to be assembled. After one month of work, twelve hours a day, I realized that I earned the double than working in the factory: I decided to start working on my own. The first Colnago's workshop was in Cambiago. The room: 25 square meters. The workshop was in front of the most popular tavern in Cambiago: "Il du e vint", a true strategic place to let people realize that Ernesto had his own workshop. "The first bikes with the Colnago name were produced in the year 1954. The first important victory arrived in the summer of the 1960. Arienti, who was in the Italian track cycling national team, won the gold medal at the Olympic Games in Rome."

   Go get it-------Now! posted by Walter on 1/5/2002 at 2:58:32 AM
It is definitely worth the trouble of moving some junk around. Man why can't I find such things? Colnagos are not real old as Ernesto has been described as 1 of the "2nd generation" of frame builders. Not all Colnagos are of highest quality and I'm a little surprised to see the cottered cranks. It is definitely worth your time to pull out. Please describe it after you do.

   YES!!!! posted by John E on 1/5/2002 at 3:33:16 AM
Cottered cranks were the norm on high-end bikes into the early 1960s (e.g. 1962 Schwinn Paramount). I have never met a Colnago I didn't like. Definitely worth rescuing from the heap!

MISC:   Miyata Radial Tires... posted by: Stacey on 1/4/2002 at 10:11:53 PM
I'm looking for some information on 27" Miyata Radial Tires. I've heard these ard difficult to come by... unobtainable if you will. I've just obtained a set, fairly agressive tread for a Road Bike tire, would be GREAT in ugly weather. It's not "Knobby" agressive, but a real tread, not the little ridgy things found on most road tire. So, what's the poop on these tires, anyone know?

In the wind,

   RE:MISC:   Miyata Radial Tires... posted by Steven on 1/6/2002 at 3:40:03 PM
The Miyata radial tires came out in the early 80's and were a play on the heavily marketed radial tires found on cars of the same time. If you look on the inside, the case has a radial design instead of the more commonly seen transverse casing material. They tend to be somewhat softer feeling that traditional designed tires but otherwise it was more marketing than anything else. It is logical that you do not find them any more because the rubber used is assuredly now so hard that they either do not grip or have cracked. Rubber has a lifespan that rarely goes beyond 10 years. Original tires might be great for show but not for riding. I'd rather have retro styling any day over a real McCoy 'old' tire on any bike I intended to use.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Gran Sport posted by: smg on 1/4/2002 at 4:09:53 PM
Medium-to-tall Raleigh enthusiasts in the Seattle area might want to drop by Recycled Cycles. As of last night, they had a ca. 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 23", in the outside display. This is a 531DB touring-type bike, apparently intact except for honorable paint wear and the inevitable replacement Sun Tour derailleurs--priced at $55! Wish I was a couple inches taller!
And I have some questions for masters of lightweight Raleigh lore. A couple of months ago, I found what I took to be a repainted/reforked Gran Sport of the same vintage. ID was on the basis of the Raleigh/Nottingham head badge (which had been remounted with obviously new rivets), the semi-circular bracket on the seat stays for the rear centerpull brake cable, and the form of the serial number. The latter is all-numerical, which the "Retro Raleighs" site says was characteristic of early-'70s Gran Sports. Rear dropouts are plain, with no derailleur-mounting boss.
HOWEVER--comparison with the Gran Sport mentioned above revealed differences as well. That bike has very plain lugs, whereas my bike has pierced ones. They are in fact quite similar to those of the Competition and International of the same vintage. On the other hand, I haven't seen any of those bikes with plain rear dropouts.
As I've mentioned before, I set it up with an S-A S5 hub as a 1950-vintage club-bike replica, and it is a very delightful ride in that configuration. But now I'm wondering once more about what it might have been originally and when it might date from. Anybody have any ideas?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bicycle Classics going out of business (again) posted by: Keith on 1/4/2002 at 3:45:35 PM
Check the site (www.bicycleclassics.com). I think this is another indication of the depth of interest in lightweight and how it may reflect collectability and value. As Kone has said, the lightweight market is "thin." Kone is a leading expert, gathered an impressive aray of NOS Campy and other top-end components, and had an excellent site. Although there may be other reasons, he couldn't make it work. It's a shame.

AGE / VALUE:   That most frequesnt question: value posted by: Keith on 1/3/2002 at 7:43:55 PM
May be old news to you, but I stumbled onto this site and found some merit to the "value" formula Jeff uses: http://members.aol.com/biketune/value.html Okay, he lumps all lightweights into a few broad categories, but I think he's in the ballpark on the real value of most of this old stuff.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   That most frequesnt question: value posted by Walter on 1/6/2002 at 1:45:44 PM
Keith, I saw that site awhile ago and forgot about it. In general, I agree though there are some true "collectibles" out there that blow a hole in his formula. There're not many of them, certainly not as many as some people think, but as we've seen on eBay every now and then somebody "rings the cherrys" so to speak. A buyer/seller is well advised to do some research.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   That most frequesnt question: value posted by Gralyn on 1/3/2002 at 11:26:37 PM
I wonder where he gets the handle bar tape for $2? All I can find around here is at least $10! The same goes for the tires and tube.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   That most frequesnt question: value posted by Allen on 1/4/2002 at 1:24:29 AM
I am inquiring about a Schwinn girls bike on its age and valve if any. Serial #CB15765,gold like color,tires-kenda 20x1/38 (original), fenders both front & rear chrome /reflector on rear mounted by spring,hand grips, kick stand (original), brakes front and rear hand /original, seat- spring cushion, tilt,adjustable height,rear axel stampings Sturmet Archer England-AW 66 5,3speed.This bike belonged to my Mother and bought new and ridden just a few years. Ant information that can be supplied would be gratfull

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   That most frequesnt question: value posted by Allen on 1/4/2002 at 1:28:31 AM
I am inquiring about a Schwinn girls bike on its age and valve if any. Serial #CB15765,gold like color,tires-kenda 20x1/38 (original), fenders both front & rear chrome /reflector on rear mounted by spring,hand grips, kick stand (original), brakes front and rear hand /original, seat- spring cushion, tilt,adjustable height,rear axel stampings Sturmet Archer England-AW 66 5,3speed.This bike belonged to my Mother and bought new and ridden just a few years. Ant information that can be supplied would be gratfull

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   That most frequesnt question: value posted by Wings on 1/4/2002 at 8:14:38 AM
The "B" in the serial number indicates 1966. The serial number would also be on the head tube for this year.
The 66 on your rear hub indicates 1966.
You have 20 x 1and 3/8 inch wheels....

I only have information up to and including 1965. In 65 there were four 20 inch models:
Breeze -- Many of these did have the 3 speed hub.
Candy -- I don't know about this model.
Fiesta -- fat tire bike --not what you have.
Hollywood -- fat tire bike -- not what you have.

Under "Special Models" for 1965 -- Schwinn made a "Pixie". I have an earlier Pixie that has a 3 speed hub and 20 by 1 and 3/8 tires. The rims on mine are not shiny chrome but are more of an aluminum finish. All the bars on the frame of the Pixie are straight.

In summary -- it could be a Breeze or a Pixie. I know nothing about the Candy.

Maybe somebody has a 66 listing of Schwinn that would make this more complete.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   That most frequesnt question: value posted by Keith on 1/4/2002 at 3:37:55 PM
Part of my motivation in posting this was that the site lowballs the value, and I think that's realistic. Some of the most frequesnt questions on this Oldroads section concern the value of low to mid-range 70s and 80s Japanese or European bikes. Although someone usually points the way to more information on a given brand, the value question usually remains unanswered. I think its significant because many come here after hitting a gagage sale, buying a generic Fuji or Peugeot UO-8, and wondering if they scored a huge deal. As this site suggests, the answer should usually be NO! It's also relevant to those who've come to this site talking about "restoring" low to mid-range bikes of this era. I think we need to be more direct when someone asks, for example, whether it's worth it to "restore" a rusty incomplete late 70s Schwinn World Sport. Again, unless you have nothing but time and money on your hands, the answer should be NO! Lastly, in terms of "collectability" (also frequently asked but not answered), the only bikes that are going to appreciate in value within our lifetime are top-end bikes in pristine condition, NOS Campy stuff, and (since the Dancing Chain it seems) certain pre-Prestige Simplex stuff. Otherwise, what you've picked up at the garage sale is fun, practical transportation, not a collectable. Cheers!

   collectibility posted by John E on 1/5/2002 at 3:37:16 AM
From what I see, any clean, complete, original bike with a suicide front shifter and a clockspring rear derailleur is collectible, even though most of these shift like $#!^.

AGE / VALUE:   Austro Daimler posted by: Sun on 1/3/2002 at 6:58:55 PM
Has anyone ever come across old racing bikes known as Austro Daimler's. I can't find any information on them at all anywhere. It is a very sweet old racing machine...any help would be greatly appreciated. I just got one in absolute mint original condition when I cleaned out an estate for a real estate company. Anyone with info please email me at SunTzuTov@aol.com Thanks.

   Austro Daimler posted by John E on 1/3/2002 at 8:55:35 PM
Austro Daimlers are great old road bikes which were made by industrial conglomerate Steyr/Daimler/Puch of Graz, Austria, primarily during the early 1980s. There is some information under sheldonbrown.com and classicrendezvous.com. Your AD is definitely a "keeper"! (Since I ride a Capo, www.capo.at, I'm partial to Austrian bikes.)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Austro Daimler posted by Walter on 1/3/2002 at 9:36:17 PM
The standard resource for such questions.


Has a neat story from a former dealer. I definitely concur that A-Ds were quality bikes. A friend has an old one with a triple. He probably hasn't ridden it in 10 years. Enjoy your bike.

   Austro Daimler quality posted by John E on 1/3/2002 at 11:32:39 PM
My LBS, which has sold Bianchis for over 20 years, sold ADs for several years, as well. This may be a bit of an exaggeration, but the owner told me that he has never seen an AD frame come back from fatigue-related failure. Over the years, he has seen a few heavily-used Peugeots break at the chainstays (as one of mine did), Japanese frames at the bottom bracket (again, as mine did), and Bianchis at the front of the downtube (I hope not for several years to come!).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Austro Daimler posted by Sun on 1/5/2002 at 4:49:01 PM
Hey thanks for the info guys. I have since learned quite a bit about the Daimler. It is the second vintage bike that I have picked up recently. The other one is a Motobecane Super Mirage that I picked up at my local Salvation army Thrift store for 12 bucks, I love the bike it is my commuter and is in excellent shape. There is another Bike at this same thrift store that has a panasonic AL 9000. It looks to be brand new weighs about 20 pounds and they want 12 bucks for it? Is this a good buy? I have never heard of panasonics? This particular thrift store sells all of their bikes for 12 bucks....before I knew about old classic bikes I let a paramount slip by....I am still kicking myself.

   Panasonic posted by Walter on 1/5/2002 at 10:01:33 PM
You scored well with the A-D and the Moto. At 12$ the Panasonic is a good deal w/o doubt but not as collectible as the other 2. If you're buying for personal use you can't go too wrong for 12$. For resale on a place like eBay, it should sell but I wouldn't expect a huge return. I'm trying to remember the Panasonic line-up. The top-end models had the high line Shimano, in some cases I believe DuraAce, and SunTour. I'm not a big advocate of parting out bikes but such components may sell for more than the complete bike in this case. A high-end Panasonic will ride very well but I really like the 2 Euro bikes you've found.

AGE / VALUE:   Eaton and Randor posted by: Gralyn on 1/3/2002 at 1:38:55 AM
Has anyone ever heard of an Eaton? I believe it is Canadian. The Randor Par Excellence - I have never heard of. It looked old...maybe 70's or earlier....but it didn't look like a really good bike....I had never heard of such a brand.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Eaton and Randor posted by Warren on 1/3/2002 at 4:52:20 AM
Eatons department store...they distributed several names over the years...Glider and Roadking being a couple of them. In the old, old days they were generally rebadged Brit bikes. There is a drop dead gorgeous 10 outa 10 Eatons heavyweight bike in Urbane Cycle in Toronto hanging on the wall. It sat inside for 50 years unridden. The owner took it for one ride and decided to trade it in for a newer, lighter modern bike. Even the big fat whitewalled tires are "Eaton's" branded as well. FA as the saying goes...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Eaton and Randor posted by Tom on 1/3/2002 at 6:15:12 AM
I have an old Eatons Glider from the 40's. Warren is right the old Eatons bikes were made in England. Mine is a British made bike with all parts including frame Made in England. The tires on mine are Eatons made by Dunlop. The bike is in excellent shape. The owner covered the bike with oil when he put it in storage in the 60's. I also have a Rollfast I got from my neighbor that was bought in the 40's from Eatons. It was delivered to Eatons with no tires and seat and Eatons put their own tires and seat on it.I have had many 50's and 60's Eatons bikes. A lot of 50's and 60's Eatons bikes were Raleigh bikes with Eatons badges. In the 60's and earlier Eatons was the largest department store company in Canada, doing some 50% of all Canadian department store buisness. Everyone who had bikes in the 60's had a Glider bike. The Eatons store in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada was built in around 1900 and was in buisness until a few years ago when it went belly up.When they had the sellout of all items a friend of mine found a Santas sleigh from the first Eatons Santa parade held in Winnipeg. The sleigh is in perfect shape. A lot of the employees never knew it was there. The store is slated to be torn down starting this week to make room for a new state of the art arena. I am sorry to see it go. It is a landmark and a lot of history in that old building. They are going to have an area to display old items from the days gone by. I am thinking of donating my bike to the display. Anyone interested in pictures of the old Eatons bikes can email me.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Eaton and Randor posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/3/2002 at 4:07:25 PM
Please take pictures of it before the crew knocks it down. We want to see this.
Do your part for history, time is running out. What salvage company is handling it. What's getting tossed out? Where is the family? where are the archives the pictures, display cabinets, old inventory? It's being thrown away isn't it?
Do something, please. I beg of you.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Eaton and Randor posted by Gralyn on 1/3/2002 at 11:04:47 PM
The Eaton had a decal head badge. It also had Rigida rims. Don't remember what other components it had...oh yes, dia-compe brakes. It did have a Canada label, too.

WANTED:   zeus decals posted by: AARDMORE on 1/2/2002 at 7:57:35 PM

AGE / VALUE:   PEUGEOT " BALADE " posted by: Kevin K on 1/2/2002 at 3:34:53 PM
Hi.In 1993 or 1994 I bought a new bike made by Peugeot.It is called a Balade. The bike may have already been several model years old. Anyway, I knew very little about the bike but I liked the way it was set up basically for year round riding. To date I've replaced everything associated with the running gear on the bike as I feel it wasn't the quality it could have been. Can any of you guys that know Peugeot or the Balade tell me about this bike? It's color is sort of a light green metallic with black metallic colored ESGE fenders to help I.D. the year. Thanks, Kevin K

   PEUGEOT posted by John E on 1/2/2002 at 4:13:27 PM
My strongly-held opinion is that most Peugeot frames are superior to some of the factory-installed components, particularly the Simplex derailleurs. Although I repaired and sold Peugeots in the early 1970s and have owned several myself, I have never heard of a "Ballade." Does it have a conventionally lugged frame (pre-1985), or (I suspect) an internally lugged or perhaps TIG-welded Carbolite frame? Yours may be a CCM (Canada) product, since Peugeot stopped producing bikes in France and sold rights to the bicycle brand name in the early 1990s.

   RE:PEUGEOT posted by Kevin K on 1/2/2002 at 9:31:39 PM
Hi John. Yea it's a tig welded frame. The bike is a 6 speed commuter style bike. The frame is the steel you described. It did come with 700c wheels however they seemed rather basic. The running gear was all basic Shimano. Most components were steel. I've added alot of alloy/aluminum pieces along with new wheels and Michelins.The bike now looks of quality and has a totally different feel.I updated the cantilevers with a nice set of upper end Shimano pieces I found on a mountain bike in the trash. The mountain bike was in great shape save for the fact that it had been run over by a car. Thanks. Kevin K

AGE / VALUE:   Classic Colnago Carbon Fibre posted by: Tim on 1/2/2002 at 1:07:25 AM
My buddy has an old Colnago carbon fibre 'Carbitubo'. While I know classic lightweights are supposed to be steel, this seems like a unique bike and we want to find out more. It is most distinguishable by its dual, small diameter, side-by-side downtubes. All joints, b.b., etc, and the fork are aluminum. He bought is bare, and we have built it up with recent Ultegra STI components.

The bit of info we have found makes me think it was Colnago's first carbon fibre frame. Does anyone know about this bike?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Classic Colnago Carbon Fibre posted by Walter on 1/2/2002 at 1:27:29 AM
Same URL I gave you for the Olmo also has an entry for Colnago. I don't think it mentions any non-steel models. As the owner of a recent vintage Colnago Master I keep an eye out for Colnago info. I'm pretty sure you're right that it was Colnago's first carbon frame and predates the C-40 line. Other than that I can't help much. Roadbikereview.com discussion area and Bikeforums.net might be good places to ask about this frame.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Classic Colnago Carbon Fibre posted by Wayne on 3/24/2002 at 11:03:47 PM
Yep quite right. The Colnago Carbitubo was built before the C40 came on the scene. There was also a Bi Titan frame of the same design made from Titanium. The Carbitubo was however not the first Carbon Colnago as the C35 was there before it, I think it was in 1997. Anyway the Carbitubo came on the scene in the 1989 Tour de France ridden by some of the Colnago sponsered teams. It was produced until 1993.

It may not equal the ride of the C40, can't say as I have not ridden a C40 yet, but it is nonetheless a great bike to ride. It is nice and light and very responsive due to the double downtube. I bought one from a friend after he stopped racing in 1996. I use it for racing and training now as I sold my Colnago Master in 1997. The bike is fitted with Durace from 1993 when the bike was first bought. All original and done probably around 50 000 kilometers.

My opinion is that this is one fine bike and definately a keeper. I would not depart with mine for anything other than the Colnago C40 B-Stay or the Colnago CF1.