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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bicycle Component Date Codes posted by: Skip Echert on 2/8/2002 at 7:44:51 AM
Hello Bicyclers -
Manufacturer's date codes on bicycle components can be used as a tool to determine the age of a bike. Not a proof positive method, but they could provide an oldest date for the bike, assuming the components are original.

Date codes on Campagnolo components are generally well known. Larry Osborn (of the Classic Rendezvous vintage lightweight list) and I are attempting to understand the manufacturer's date codes that appear on other bike components. We think we have sorted out SR (and Sakae) seatposts and cranks. We believe we have sorted out the two-letter Shimano codes, and would appreciate your comments. See details at

We are trying to add more information on dates for other components on the Vintage-Trek site and welcome your suggestions and insights.


Skip Echert
Renton, WA

AGE / VALUE:   old wooden bikes posted by: Tom Jost on 2/7/2002 at 12:11:13 AM
I need somebody to help me with 3 1900's wooden bicycles 2 with carbide lamps in relatively good condition. wheels with no tires.
1.1901 Rmbler model 4
2.Essrey mfg?
3. Columbia Hartford 1902

These were found in attic of house my friend bought but he has no computerso I am writing for him. If somebody can put us in touch with somebody who can help him determine what he has would be greatly appreciated. We are in Yuma, bikes in CA

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   old wooden bikes posted by Mike on 2/7/2002 at 2:34:58 PM
Wow! Whadda find! Especially on the west coast. I'm envious! The bikes are very valuable depending on condition. Don't try to restore/repair them in any way. Sources of more information would be the Copake antique bicycle auction (www.copakeauction.com), The Wheelmen (www.thewheelmen.org), and the Burgwardt Bicycle Museum (www.pedalinghistory.com).

AGE / VALUE:   Sekai bicycles posted by: Ron on 2/6/2002 at 6:16:34 PM
Anyone have any info on Sekai bicycles? I have what I believe is a 2500 model. It came with Cyclone,Sugino Maxy crank,and black Dia-compe brakes with the quick release in the brake levers.Anyone run across the 5000 model or frame?

   Sekai bicycles posted by John E on 2/7/2002 at 9:56:41 PM
Cyclone is good; Maxy was Sugino's lower-end aluminum crankset. Sounds like a mid-level Japanese road bike, mid 1980s(?), perhaps straight-gauge CrMo or d.b. CrMo main triangle only. Sekai is more familiar to Americans for its SR components than for its frames.

   RE:Sekai bicycles posted by Ron on 2/8/2002 at 4:54:48 AM
Actually I bought the Sekai new in 76. I remember a review of Sekai's top of the line racing model in Bicycling about this time. Anyone seen one? I remember a racer of some local fame from Seattle used to ride one.

   Sekai bicycles date code posted by John E on 2/8/2002 at 3:59:12 PM
The black brakeset threw off my estimate of build date. The original 1972 Maxy crankset was a very low-grade 3-bolt unit with the outer chainring swaged to the crank. Later versions were much more durable.

FOR SALE:   NOS Weinmann Center Pull brake set Vainqueur 999 posted by: Jim on 2/6/2002 at 3:14:19 AM
For sale NOS Weinmann Center Pull brake set. Front and rear with levers, cables, etc. $55 shipped. View them at http://bikeyard.home.mindspring.com/999
For sale NOS Speedmid alloy shortie fenders. These are British. $18 set shipped. View them at http://bikeyard.home.mindspring.com/short

   RE:FOR SALE:   NOS Weinmann Center Pull brake set Vainqueur 999 posted by Jim on 2/6/2002 at 12:12:31 PM
If you're haveing trouble with the photos, email and I will send them to you. Thanks Jim

FOR SALE:   1960 First Year Schwinn Continental w/suicide shifter posted by: Ray on 2/6/2002 at 1:24:54 AM
Wednesday last day to bid. See all the info and specs on the bike below on an earlier posting. This was the kickoff of the derailleur bike craze in the US and this bike has a rich Schwinn history. Not many left intact.

AGE / VALUE:   Kuwahara Frame - Who knows about it? posted by: John on 2/5/2002 at 8:29:11 PM
Picked up a Kuwahara bike at a giant thrift sale in Oakland, CA. Does anyone know about this make?

Some detail: Nice lugged construction, nice mitreing, thinning and filing/finishing. Has Kuwahara Headset & BB, seems fairly high quality, light, but no tubing sticker. Seems like parts were not original, mix of Suntour, Mid-80's Shimano, Sugino, etc.

Frame has some rust and a paint-bare spot where some repair may have been done. Trying to evaluate if it is worth fixing up the paint and addressing some of the rust.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Kuwahara Frame - Who knows about it? posted by Rob on 2/5/2002 at 10:17:55 PM
This link might help a bit:


I don't pretend to be a "Kuwahara" expert, but I know they were the company behind many of the generic brand name Japanese bikes that came into NA through the 70's and '80's. ...and some of these bikes were excellent quality. The Kuwahara name is well known around Vancouver, particularly after they started branding in their own name, in the early to mid '80's. ...but I get the impression, the name isn't as well known in the US. If this makes sense to you, my guess would be the components are likely mostly original and that the bike may have reached Oakland via Canada, but maybe not...

Maybe some of the expert, regular posters who are knowledgable on tubing, etc., will be able to provide some insights on the likely quality of this bike.

   Kuwahara posted by Steven on 2/6/2002 at 12:43:34 AM
The BMX bikes used in the movie ET were Kuwaharas. Nishiki and the original Redline bikes were all made in the same factory. The Kuwahara name was generaaly only put on reasonably high quality bikes. Other names were used for lower quality.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Kuwahara Frame - Who knows about it? posted by Robert on 2/6/2002 at 3:00:11 AM
The Kuwahara link confirms a suspicion I've harbored. There have been many postings about '70s Japanese bikes that all sound so similar that they must have been produced by one company and Kuwahara seems to be it. I have a Takara from that time and the only hint on it is the Kuwahara headset.

   Kawamura posted by John E on 2/6/2002 at 3:49:22 AM
I thought Nishiki frames were made by Kawamura.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Kuwahara Frame - Who knows about it? posted by smg on 2/6/2002 at 8:54:58 PM
This reminds me of a frame that I bought in 1983. It was called a "Yagami", but had no markings other than a "cro-mo" sticker. Dimensions were typical of a mid-70s roadracer: 1 1/4" rake/16 1/4" chainstays, but had enough clearances to run 1 1/4" tires. Finish was good, with a plain red paint job. It was an absolute joy to ride, with either a single freewheel or a 5-speed derailleur depending on distance/terrain. Sadly, the bottom-bracket threads rusted out after 3 years of Michigan winter salt. Anybody know anything more about "Yagami"?

   RE:Kawamura posted by Steven on 2/6/2002 at 11:41:54 PM
John, you are right. I spoke too soon about Nishiki. The Redline part is correct however.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by: Patrick on 2/5/2002 at 2:14:02 AM
Just looked at a nice used bike for sale but know nothing about it. Anyone know about the Raliegh of North America Technium frame which appears to be very light alluminum alloy main tubes which are glued or bonded to the lugs? Is this a reliable frame? It appears to be in very good shape and is complete and ridable with narrow eyeletted rims, Diacompe brakes, Suntour deraileurs in 12 speed configuration. Any and all replies are appreciated. Thankyou. Patrick

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Stacey on 2/5/2002 at 11:19:55 AM
Hi Patrick, Great find, in my estimation. Up until about 3 years ago I had a Raleigh Technium. What a sweet bike it was. No problems whatsoever with the frame. That was a concern of mine too when I bought it. If I recall correctly, the entire frame was aluminum. Wonderfully light, and rode like velvet. Light powder blue with darker blue lug work. Alas, someone borowed it without asking, and never returned it. Last fall I replaced it with a Raleigh Capri. Steel framed and not near as nice a ride. You have my vote of support to buy it. If you don't, tell me where it is... and I will!

In the wind,

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Walter on 2/5/2002 at 11:30:00 PM
Techniums were interesting. As I recall they were bonded together and often were a mix of aluminum and steel. Not a bad combo as the aluminum main triangle saved some weight and steel stays smoothed the ride out some. Today the mix seems to be aluminum and carbon fiber. This resulted in reasonably light for the time (22lb or so for the upper end) bikes that weren't real expensive.

There was some trepidation about the idea of bonding tubes back when the bikes were introduced but I've never heard of failures. I don't think they're collectible but a clean one should be a nice rider and I can think of no reason not to get it assuming a reasonable price.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Walter on 2/5/2002 at 11:33:15 PM
I believe I used a double negative there in my last sentence above. "I think it's a good bike and if the price is reasonable go for it" is what I meant.

Sometimes the teacher in me comes out.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Patrick on 2/7/2002 at 2:41:36 AM
Thank you everyone for the information! Unfortunately I did not jump on this deal soon enough and it already sold. I am now on a quest to track one down in the Madison, WI area. Also, there is a nice bike swap and show at the State Fair Park in Milwaukee, WI on Feb. 16. Mostly ballooners, Stingrays, and Schwinn in gerneral but some old school BMX and a few lightweights. I am going and usually find some good deals on parts. See you there!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Stacey on 2/7/2002 at 11:10:55 AM
All is not lost, I came across this yesterday.


Good Luck!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Bill Putnam on 2/7/2002 at 3:51:25 PM

I was unable to e mail you off the list. Apologies to those
not living in the area. If you are in the Madison area,
Budget Bicycle Center has literally thousands of used bikes,
I expect you might be able to find what you're looking for
there. You just missed one of the biggest swap meets in this country a couple weeks ago held here in Madison, WI,

Good luck,

Bill Putnam

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Oscar on 2/8/2002 at 4:41:12 AM
Bill!!! Is the Madison swap a yearly event? Where and when is it held? Gonna go to Milwaukee for the 2/16 swap?

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Oscar on 2/8/2002 at 4:41:33 AM
Bill!!! Is the Madison swap a yearly event? Where and when is it held? Gonna go to Milwaukee for the 2/16 swap?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Bill Putnam on 2/8/2002 at 9:54:36 PM
The Madison swap meet is a yearly event. See:




for details of this and previous year's swap.

I will not be going to teh Milwaukee swap meet.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raliegh Technium posted by Patrick on 2/9/2002 at 12:26:40 AM
I was at the Madison meet and have been there for the past 3 years. I help at the Wheels for Winners booth and so did not get a chance to see even a quarter of the show. But it is a great show and may be even larger next! I am going also to the Milwaukee show and swap on Feb. 16. That show has a whole diffferent focus and is geared more toward ballooners, StingRays, Old School BMX. But sometimes there are some nice lightweights there as well. See you there - I will be the one with the Wheels for Winners shirt! Patrick

FOR SALE:   Old road bike posted by: Greg on 2/4/2002 at 10:50:34 PM
Hello all. I have for sale a ??year?? Sanwa road bike.Very light weight.Lug frame.Chrome tange fork.Full Shimano group with the exception of the crank set.It is SR.Friction xshifters on down tube. Araya rims with qr skewers. o.b.o

   RE:FOR SALE:   Old road bike posted by Greg on 2/4/2002 at 10:58:55 PM
Shimano 600 Group. Bike in very good condition

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Old road bike posted by Greg on 2/4/2002 at 11:06:29 PM
135.00 o.b.o Thanks again

AGE / VALUE:   TRIVIA QUESTION posted by: Kevin K on 2/4/2002 at 8:08:25 PM
Hi. Saw a great movie last night called" Chocolat. Great acting by several beautiful women. In one scene it has the mother of a young boy working on a bicycle owned by the boys father and her late husband. It's a derailleur bike for sure. Any ideas on the make? Also caught a special on PBS about Jackie O. In one shot there was a picture of John Kennedy Jr. on a muscle bike, possibly a Stingray. So what might be the bike in Chocolat? The movie was filmed in France.( I'm guessing ) Kevin K

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   TRIVIA QUESTION posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/5/2002 at 12:00:17 AM
I enjoyed the bike scene too. I'm not sure myself.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Super Course Upgrade posted by: Don on 2/4/2002 at 12:07:12 AM
Several months ago I bought an early 70's Super Course at the Goodwill for $10. Simplex deraillers, Weinmann brakes & rims: the Copper paint was really distressed but ride was so great I made it my winter project. Repainted & have a complete NOS set of Shimano 600 components, Brooks B-17 Saddle etc. Its really looking great & almost done but I may be forced to combine the Weinmann center pull brakes with the nifty drilled Shimano levers. I know a drop bolt setup would let me use the Shimano set but 2 drop bolts cost more than I paid for the entire component/wheels/bar & stem set. Anybody ever fabricated anything else that would let me use the 600 brakeset on this beautimous old raleigh frame? Also the paintshop had Raleigh & Super Course decals for the top tube & down tube but still looking for a Reynolds 531 & Raleigh/Carlton or whatever decals for the seat tube, anyone know a source? Don Olympia, WA

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Super Course Upgrade posted by Don on 2/4/2002 at 12:54:39 AM
Asked for help to soon, I found the brake solution (with an illustration) on Sheldon Brown's site. Still looking for decals though.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Super Course Upgrade posted by Peter on 2/4/2002 at 8:28:30 AM
Try http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/NICK_at_LLOYDS/decals.htm for the decals. In the UK, but ship worldwide.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Super Course Upgrade posted by Keith on 2/4/2002 at 2:22:51 PM
A few months ago I too picked up a Super Course -- the paint on mine is very clean bronze -- decals intact. I upgraded mine with a Shimano Deore triple drivetrain, Planet Bike Freddy Hardcore fenders, tall Nitto Technomic stem, a newish Brooks B-17, and 700c wheels with Avocet Cross 700 x 32 tires. It's now my sloppy weather commuter.

   brake "upgrades" posted by John E on 2/4/2002 at 3:04:11 PM
Moving the brake assembly closer to the tyre improves the performance of any brake caliper, because moving the pads closer to the pivot(s) enhances leverage. However, I am not convinced that replacing a standard dual-pivot centerpull brake with a single-pivot sidepull constitutes an upgrade, although moving to a good dual-pivot sidepull probably would. Despite the frame's longer reach, the original Weinmann centerpulls on my Capo are much better than the first-generation Campy sidepulls (which I plan to replace soon with dual-pivot sidepulls) on my Bianchi.

   RE:brake posted by Brian L. on 2/4/2002 at 5:09:08 PM
John, I would agree with you and add a qualifier. I have really enjoyed the performance of Mafac, Alfa (Zeus) and Weinmann centerpulls and would rate them superior to most single-pivot sidepulls, provided that we are speaking of the higher quality brass bushing models. The plastic bushing models start out fine, but their performance falls off as the bushings degrade.

AGE / VALUE:   Golden Sports Zebra Kenko posted by: Gralyn on 2/3/2002 at 7:40:05 PM
I got this old bike - 10 speed - made in Japan. It doesn't have any decals for the frame...like what kind of steel, etc. It's isn't an alloy...because it isn't that light - just regular carbon steel. It's Suntour deur, and shifters, Shimano "Tourney"???brakes, Shunshine hubs, Araya rims, crappy saddle (looks like dept store saddle - probably not the original. The bike cleaned-up remarkable well. It only has a few nicks and dings on the top tube. It has a bicycle license decal on the down tube for 1976 - 1977. So, I figure it's at least a '76 model....maybe older. I had never heard of this particular brand, etc. Has anyone ever heard of a Japanese bike by this name?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Golden Sports Zebra Kenko posted by Gralyn on 2/4/2002 at 8:11:25 PM
I will look for that when I get home this evening. Last night I checked the bottom bracket for a serial number. It had some type of name...I don't remember what...and "76" stamped into it. I figure it is for 1976...which cooincides with the license sticker. There was also a serial number. It really looks pretty good to be so old.

   Golden Sports Zebra Kenko posted by John E on 2/3/2002 at 8:54:58 PM
Your instincts are right-on, Gralyn. Numerous generic off-brand Japanese 10-speeds entered the U.S. during the big bike boom of the 1970s. During one bike shortage, Nishiki dealers started selling Mitzutani Seraph Sprees, Azukis, etc. It's probably a decent, serviceable commuter or recreational rider, better than any of today's *-Mart offerings.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Golden Sports Zebra Kenko posted by Robert on 2/3/2002 at 11:28:02 PM
The components you list are pretty much identical to what came on my '79 Takara. Out of curiosity, is the bearing adjustment on the stem tube marked "Kuwahara Cycle"?

AGE / VALUE:   All AluminumTri-Bike posted by: Laurie on 2/2/2002 at 1:03:51 PM
We obtained a "Tri-Bike" all aluminum frame and wheel rims tricycle. The back standing plate pivots. It is about 24" tall and front tire rim of 14" or so. I don't have a clue what year or worth. I'm not able to find any literature on it. Does anyone have any ideas?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   All AluminumTri-Bike posted by Steven on 2/5/2002 at 12:39:05 PM
read about the windcheetah from their website: http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   All AluminumTri-Bike posted by Walter on 2/3/2002 at 2:48:16 AM
I have heard tale of racing trikes in England but have no knowledge of their appearance, composition, etc. at all. I don't think your "normal" adult trike aimed at an errr... older clientele would be manufactured in aluminum or be able to pivot. Just a wild guess but if you find out more let us know.

Now that I'm thinking of it recumbent style trikes are somewhat popular and since some are used in Human Powered Vehicle events the aluminum composition makes sense. Often the dual wheels are up front and the "bike" is quite low to the ground with the rider in a mesh seat that is tilted towards the horizontal. Such recumbents have a faithful following and sell for big $ at shops. I've never heard of the pivot feature though. My knowledge of 'bents is incomplete.

   Tricycles posted by Steven on 2/3/2002 at 3:17:46 AM
To learn more about tricycling in Britain, take a look at the following web-site: http://www.tricycle-association.org.uk/photo_album.htm Tricycle riding is great fun and deserves to have followers throughout the world. There used to be quite a few winter trike riders in Canada. The trike described could be a Pashley. They made a model with a pivoting part just in front of the differential. It had a small front wheel. To be able to be sure, I would need a far better description.

   RE:Tricycles posted by Walter on 2/3/2002 at 5:59:07 PM
Neat link, Steve. Looks like those trikes run 700C in the rear.

Only in England!

   RE:RE:Tricycles posted by Steven on 2/3/2002 at 6:26:51 PM
On my old trike, I had 700C wheels all around, the narrower the tires the better traction in the snow and ice of the winter. You ride a trike in a completely different way as the rider must use body weight to counteract momentum when going around corners. A properly ridden trike is almost as fast as a regular bike but a neophyte will invariably crash if trying to go fast. To save weight, they usually only have one driven wheel. This is genrally the curb-side wheel to naturally push the trike towards the center of the road, making a British trike hard to use in North America as the camber of the road surface is obviously the opposite when you ride on the other side of the road. There are also tandem trikes known as Barrows. Some builders have also tried to build models with two front wheels, but these are rarely functional.

   two front/ one rear posted by John E on 2/4/2002 at 2:27:06 AM
Your closing statement surprises me, as two front / one rear strikes me as the most stable configuration, and, as a bonus, it avoids the whole drive wheel count / differential / etc. issue. If I were building a trike, I would make the (single) rear wheel and main frame tilt, and design the front suspension/steering system to accommodate this.

You are right about bicyclists' instincts on a trike. I cannot make my friend's pedicab turn a corner!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   All AluminumTri-Bike posted by Ian on 2/4/2002 at 8:04:25 AM
To continue that theme try and find "The Ultimate Bicycle Book" by Ballantine and Grant and have a look at the Windcheetah SL recumbent trike. Two wheels front and one rear, neat to ride (drive?) and super fast. It only took a short time to accustom to the strnge sensation of not leaning when I borrowed one of these. Regards, Ian.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   All AluminumTri-Bike posted by Steven on 2/4/2002 at 12:41:12 PM
The two fronts solution doesn't work except on recumbents because of the difficulty in keeping the alignment of the two wheels perfect, they shimmy like anything. The rear-wheel shimmy doesn't detract excessively from the ride. It is also far easier to get a trike to drift with two rears than with one (understeer and oversteer) making it harder to ride on in slippery roads. Recumbents are a whole other can of beans; they have different steering mechanisms (no handlebars), different center of gravity, different opportunities for leverage... If I remember correctly, the windcheetah had cambered wheels too.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   All AluminumTri-Bike posted by Keith on 2/4/2002 at 2:29:15 PM
I saw several high-end recumbent trikes on our local TOSRV double century weekend ride this year. I've seen pics of the vaunted Windcheetah -- designed by Mike Burrows -- in the enCycleoperia publication. It uses carbon fiber. They have their own website -- sorry I don't have the address handy. British land-crossing records have been set on them. Other makes include Trice of Britain and Anthrotec of Germany. Cool stuff. If I ever get a 'bent, it would have 3 wheels, thereby eliminating the inherent handling problems, not to mention the problem of getting started going uphill.

MISC:   Monthly Rose Bowl vintage bike ride posted by: Chuck Schmidt on 2/1/2002 at 8:09:02 PM

Monthly Rose Bowl vintage bike ride

Starts at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California every FIRST Sunday of
the month. Meet at the pool/picnic area parking lot at the south end of
the park at 10:30am to introduce yourselves and talk bikes. Ride will
start at 11:00am sharp. The ride will be a casual-paced 25 miles long
through Pasadena, South Pasadena, San Marino, Temple City, Arcadia,
Sierra Madre, Altadena, and back to the Rose Bowl for a picnic and more
vintage bike talk. The ride is mostly flat with one moderate climb
(fixed gears are fine in other words). Everyone is encouraged to bring
and ride a 1985 or earlier bicycle, but feel free to ride anything you

This is just a gathering of like minded collectors and not an "organized ride". Very low key, so everyone is welcome!

   RE:MISC:   Monthly Rose Bowl vintage bike ride posted by Dick on 2/2/2002 at 2:07:04 AM
I went on two of Chuck's rides at his Velo Rendezvous Event last October and I can say that I had a great time. These are all very bike-friendly little towns and provide a beautiful, scenic riding environment. Too bad I've got out-of-town Super Bowl plans. It sounds like any So Cal locals should be able to get to wherever you are going to watch the game. Look for me next month Chuck.
"Dick and Sandra on a tandem"

   RE:RE:MISC:   Monthly Rose Bowl vintage bike ride posted by Dick on 2/2/2002 at 2:12:30 AM
Too many Margaritas! What I was trying to say is: any So Cal locals that would like to make Chuck's ride should be able to finish the ride and still have time to get to wherever they are going to watch the game in time for the kickoff. Go Pat's!

AGE / VALUE:   "Magneet" Bicycle posted by: Biggguy on 2/1/2002 at 8:51:31 AM
A neighbor has one of these- a "Magneet Sprint" he's looking to sell- was his kid's bike in the mid '70s.

It has the following- Mafac center-pull brakes, Campagnolo "Valentino" derailleurs, Rigida quick-release rims (was told these were added later- originally had no-name rims with wing-nuts, cottered cranks- everything else is a no-name affair, and there's no reference as to what the frame is made of.

I was thinkng of buying the bike- it is in really nice shape, outside of dry-rotted tires- and putting upright handlebars and a more middleage friendly seat on it.

Only problem is my neighbor seems to think he had some rare jewel there- and he wants $150 for it, but, to me, it doesn't seem much better than I recall a Raleigh Record I had about the same time period being.

Anybody got any insight?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Kevin K on 2/1/2002 at 1:09:43 PM
Hi. $150 seems like alot of money to me too. One thing I've picked up on when people are the original owners on things whether it be cars, bikes whatever they tend to want more than it's really worth. If I were in your shoes and did desire the bike make him a fair offer( about 1/2 that)see what he says. I've seen bikes as you describe at garage sales for $10-$20. I picked up a really nice Cilo Pacer a few years back. Campy Valentino, 531 frame with Campy dropouts and sew ups. $100 bought it and I think this bike I just described was superior in quality. Just my opinion. Good luck. Kevin K

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Warren on 2/1/2002 at 1:51:56 PM
Ditto on the price...I'd say $50 cuz you still have to put new rubber on it, new bar tape perhaps...maybe the cables are seized...etc. This stuff adds up. You're also not in a position to ride the bike to see if you like how it feels...what if the steering is a little "non-neutral"? Is there a return policy just in case?

   Dutch? posted by John E on 2/1/2002 at 2:47:45 PM
I believe Magneet was a Dutch company which briefly exported low-to-midrange bikes to the U.S. $150 is too high a price for a mediocre bike boom era 10-speed. If the bike needs replacement parts, you may be dealing with Swiss BB threading (English if you are lucky; I forget which standard the Dutch followed back then) and perhaps French headset, stem, and seatpost diameters. You will need new brake blocks, tubes, rim strips, tyres, and possibly cables and housings. If you pay someone to do the necessary full overhaul of all bearings, your repair bill will easily exceed $100.

AGE / VALUE:   Libertas 10 sp. and Ross 10 sp. posted by: Jonathan on 2/1/2002 at 6:10:11 AM
I returned to check on the Libertas. They seem to think it's a real bike; now it's $35. With what I got from an earlier post (thanks BTW) the bike was worth another look. The derailer is Shimano, a low-ender one. Maybe not original as the rest of the bike appears to be of higher stature. Well, it's pretty worn out with a glaze of rust on most of the frame from disintegrated paint. Hefting it revealed that the frame is probably not 531; as you indicated some were made with that tubing, but this is a step down.
BUT, my visit to my other store on my route home, revealed a big black road tank of a Ross 10 speed. I know next to zilch about Ross, except that I knew they made bikes. This one has cottered cranks and lugged frame. The headset is like a motorcycle's. The BB is similar to Varsity. Date is 1959. Now, is this any kind of bike? The people at Salvation Army have it at $15. It has excellent paint and the running gear is operational. Brakes are real solid. The derailer has the name "Samlip" embossed on the face of the parallelogram. That is a new one on me. Not that I need another bike, but is this a possible find too good to pass over for $15 in beer money?
The forkends are pressed from the fork itself, which seems cheap compared to the rest of the bike craftmanship. The crown is a big chromed plate that covers the fork head. That's pretty cool lookin'. OK, is it a good bike for riding? The one piece crank is a utilitarian hunk of forged steel. Weight of the bike is more than the 1960 Varsity that was holding up about five other bikes while kickstanded!!
Thanks, gents.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Libertas 10 sp. and Ross 10 sp. posted by Wings on 2/1/2002 at 7:26:29 AM
I recently saw a Ross like you refer to. This ross was a "professional". It had wing nuts on the front wheel (Araya) and had a very early Shimano rear derailer. Cottered cranks, and a very heavy bike with "Special Steel".

I do have a Ross that is lighter and has a Shimano 6oo group for components. It is a nice bike! Ross made a lot of bikes and the quality varies from one bike to the next!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Libertas 10 sp. and Ross 10 sp. posted by Jonathan on 2/3/2002 at 8:03:04 AM
I see what you are saying about the Ross's. I stopped for another look. I guess if I was really bored and didn't have enough bikes to work on (in addition to 3 vintage motor vehicles) it would be a good buy.
For $15 a guy could get himself a darn nice machine...I just forked out $13 for a pot-metal gate latch (one moving part) which makes buying the bike seem like a great investment from a purely academic standpoint.
I may go back and get it just on principle!