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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   T. A. Rick Bicycle Company/ Thomas Board Track posted by: Dan Rok on 3/14/2002 at 3:51:46 PM
does any body have any info on one or both of two bicycles that i am interested in. the first is mf'd by t.a. rick of buffalo, ny. it appears to be in very good original condition and ca. 1900. it has full fenders. the second is a late 1800's thomas model 9 board track racer mf'd in springfield, ohio. it has wood rims and handle bars and is partially restored. thanks for your response.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   T. A. Rick Bicycle Company/ Thomas Board Track posted by Art on 3/14/2002 at 9:45:11 PM
A lot depends on what the reserve is on the Thomas track bike. Both bikes appear to be complete and original, although I'd want to know to what extent the track bike has been restored.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   T. A. Rick Bicycle Company/ Thomas Board Track posted by Walter on 3/16/2002 at 5:17:14 PM
Are these eBay bikes? Could you post an item number #? I won't try to outbid you. I like the old fixed gear racers and would like to see the pics.

AGE / VALUE:   Raeigh Record posted by: Gralyn on 3/14/2002 at 2:44:24 AM
I have a Raleigh Record. Probably late 70's or early 80's - my guess. 10-20 tubing, Rigida rims, Normandy hubs, Weinmann brakes, DiaCompe levers, SunTour, Brooks saddle, Raleigh Cranks, 5-speed cassette. Serial # RE780769. A couple of questions: How can I determine the age? Where on the scale was the "Record"? Toward the bottom of the line? Middle to bottom, middle, middle to top? I have no idea.

      Raeigh Record posted by John E on 3/14/2002 at 3:28:07 AM
The Record was Raleigh's bottom-level 10-speed, comparable to the Peugeot UO-8. The mixed DiaCompe/Weinmann brake system is interesting. The 5-speed freewheel says early-to-mid 1970s, rather than late 1970s/early 1980s, when 6 speeds became the norm.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raeigh Record posted by Gralyn on 3/15/2002 at 2:20:20 PM
Is there any way to specifically date this Raleigh? The serial number charts I have found - don't go up into the 70's and 80's. I could not find anything to link the serial number to a date. Yes, component-wise - probably 70's - but I would like to know the specific year. Is there any information out there?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raeigh Record posted by Wayne on 3/16/2002 at 1:39:48 AM
According to the tables at "Retro Raleigh"...


And my own research...
1. Every Raleigh I have ever seen using this serial number style
and starting with the letter "R" has been made in their Canadian
factory in Quebec. (Yes I am from Canada and have had several
Canadian Raleighs.)
2. This same system uses the second letter for the fortnight (yes
I love that word). This means it was made in the fourth week of April
or the first three weeks of May (fifth fortnight).
3.The number 7 means that it was made in the year ending with 7, either
1977 or 1987.
4. 80769 is the unit number although the chart is not sure of the numerical sequence.

Between myself and some friends we own a number of Raleighs from that era,
and we have never found this "code" to let us down.
I personally have 4 Canadian made Raleighs from this era and
all start with "R". My British Record Ace starts with an "N" (for Nottingham)
but other than that also keeps to this numbering scheme.

My thanks to Retro Raleighs for their help on this.


AGE / VALUE:   Carlton cycles white paint from the 1960's posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/14/2002 at 12:51:04 AM
I read a snippet about 1960's Carlton's White paint. Some bit of detail about the paint itself and techniques. It might come in handy to know. But how many of you are re- painting a white Carlton?
E- mail me for info. I offer no paint just a bit of info.

AGE / VALUE:   Unknown Schwinn posted by: Will on 3/13/2002 at 5:16:54 AM
I recently purchased a Schwinn bicycle, but I am not sure what kind it is. I think I traced it to the year it was made, by the serial #, but I am not sure. I think it was made in 1978. If you have any info on how I can get the model of it, I would appreciate it! I have some pics of it on my web page: http://www.angelfire.com/punk3/rustycommuter/newbike.html

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Unknown Schwinn posted by Stacey on 3/13/2002 at 11:19:29 AM
Will, you might want to spend some time poking around this site
http://www.geocities.com/sldatabook/contents.html Go armed with as much data from your bike as you can gather, a bit of ditective work should pin it down for you.

In the wind,

   RE: Schwinn posted by Eric Amlie on 3/13/2002 at 1:39:40 PM
It looks to me that it's a 17" frame Varsity that someone put tourist style handlebars on. Originally the "Varsity" name should have been on both sides of the top tube. "Schwinn" should be on both sides of the down tube. It's possible that it is a Suburban that someone removed the fenders from except that the Suburban didn't come in red in 1978. These are the only two ten speed bikes that I see in the '78 catalog that came in 17" frame (curved top tube (camelback)).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Unknown Schwinn posted by Keith on 3/13/2002 at 2:32:38 PM
I set up a very similar bike for my son -- 17" Varsity with bars and brake levers from an otherwise rusted out Collegiate.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Unknown Schwinn posted by Will on 3/14/2002 at 2:01:26 AM
Thanks for all your help...I'll see what I can dig up. Thanks again!

AGE / VALUE:   info. on Nishiki Competition posted by: Lenny on 3/12/2002 at 10:16:46 PM
I recently bought a Nishiki Competition (price was very modest); its orange paint seems to scream "mid-70s!" but other than that it seems to be a very well-made bike. Though it has cro-moly DB tubing, it weighs in at a rather tubby 29 lbs (complete with one "shorty" fender on the rear wheel. Components appear to be original (Sugino cotterless crank), though I'm not sure about the wheels (alloy rims with "sunshine" hubs). Is anyone out there familiar with what one of these might have weighed as originally equipped? I've been unable to find much information about Nishiki bicyles of the '70s. Thanks for any information folks might have.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   info. on Nishiki Competition posted by Dick on 3/13/2002 at 4:07:20 AM
I ride for an hour every day at lunch (as opposed to a value meal) with a co-worker, Lou, who rides an orange Nishiki as you describe. As a modest bicycle collector, I often tease him about his Nishiki. His frame may be double-butted, but double-butted what? We weighed his bike on our shipping scale and found it to weigh 28-29 lbs. The exact same weight as my Raleigh Grand Prix of which the Nishiki is a shameless knock-off. And the Nishiki lugwork doesn't come close to the Dutch Raleigh Grand Prix (fabricated by Gazelle in Holland of straight gage Raleigh 2030 High Tensile Tubes). We trade off rides ocassionally. He's ridden my Raleigh Competition G.S., Raleigh Super Course, Raleigh Grand Prix, Motobecane Grand Touring, Motobecane Grand Record, and Univega Grand Rally. Each time I get to ride his only bike, the Nishiki. Each time we've traded off, I felt I got the short end of the deal. The Nishiki doesn't have the lively feel of the Euro bikes (or the Univega) And I don't feel the frame measures up to the components; Sugino Mighty, Suntour front and rear and Barcons, Dia Compe/Weinmanns, Sunshine hubs/Araya rims. This component group could upgrade My Raleigh Super Course or Grand Prix nicely. I've often threatened Lou with doing just that. I told Lou that I would find him a nice Univaga or Motobecane of equal or better value and completely overhaul it and trade him for the Nishiki so I can get my hands on the components. He won't do it. He's faithful to the Nishiki. To each his own, I guess. If, as you say, the price was very modest, then you've made a good purchase. Just keep your eyes open for a nice French or English frame. IMHO of course.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   info. on Nishiki Competition posted by Lenny on 3/13/2002 at 11:25:16 AM
Hello Dick,

Thanks very much for your reply. I normally direct most of my search and rescue efforts towards Raleighs (Super Courses are my particular favorite due to their lively but non-punishing ride IMHO), but I just couldn't pass this Nishiki up due to very low price, good condition, and some interesting components. I'll let you know what I think about its riding qualities when I've had a chance to evaluate it properly. One interesting thing I realized about the gearing: due to the 48/54 chainrings and 14-34 rear cluster, the gears (i.e. inches per crank revolution) are very evenly spaced and one can run through the gears in a very consistent way (e.g. moving from small to large chainring for each rear cog, then going from larger to smaller rear sprocket will give an even progression of increasing greater gearing). In practice, I don't know whether I'll find this a nice touch or not, though on paper it seems to be more logical than the progression from the old 14-28 cluster with 42/52 crank found on just about everthing else I ride.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   info. on Nishiki Competition posted by Gralyn on 3/13/2002 at 12:51:59 PM
I have a Nishiki - most likely from the 80's - 12-speed. I got it at a really modest price. It has decent components - yet the frame seems sub-standard compared with the components. It is also geared high. I don't think it would be my choice for hilly terrain. It probably weighs 28 or 29 lbs, too. Maybe I will get a really light frame - and transfer the components - or maybe I will sell it at a modest profit.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   info. on Nishiki Competition posted by Keith on 3/13/2002 at 7:43:50 PM
If it's not your only bike, and you don't already have a fixed gear bike, you might want to consider using it for such a project. I think this may be the best and highest use for the low to mid-range Japanese bikes from the 70s. Making it into a fixed gear will reduce the weight a bit, and as a result the bike will feel a bit less sluggish (although a good part of that is the frame itself).

   Nishiki Competition posted by John E on 3/14/2002 at 3:46:26 AM
I owned a 1971 Nishiki Competition (American Eagle Semi-Pro, the original denotation) until the early 1990s, when the seat tube lug broke off of the BB shell at 40K miles / 65K km. My observations, which match the sentiments expressed above:
1) The SunTour rear derailleur outshifted everything else of that vintage.
2) The half-step gearing was well thought out. (Incidentally, a 52-40 / 14-28 10-speed works out much better than 52-42 / 14-28, as a true 1.5-step Alpine system. For 10 speeds, 52-42 works best with 14-24.)
3) The Sunshine hubs and Araya rims are original, as are the other components you describe. They are indeed better than the frame, in contrast to most European bikes of that vintage. I just bought a set of those great SunTour barcons and plan to use them on my commuting bike.
4) Although the frame is double-butted Ishiwata CrMo, it is as heavy as a Peugeot UO-8 carbon steel frame.
5) These bikes feel "dead" under acceleration or out-of-saddle climbing. Possibly because of the long chainstays, that frame has alot of bottom bracket flex.
6) With tubular tyres, a 14-24 freewheel, and a Brooks Pro saddle, my 23" Semi-Pro weighed about 26lbs.
7) The craftsmanship on my 1971 was mediocre, about on the level of a Peugeot.
8) When my Nishiki frame died and I transferred many of the components to my Peugeot UO-8 (which eventually cracked, as well), I felt the latter was the better bike.
9) Later Nishikis ride, handle, and look much better than the early-to-mid-1970s specimens.

MISC:   The dream is over posted by: Ray on 3/12/2002 at 9:54:19 PM
Well I was watching with wide eyed interest in the auction for the Cambio Corsa bike on ebay this afternoon. Since it hovered around the $400 range most of the week I thought foolishly I had a shot at it. My limit was well over the $400 but I did not know that it would jump to over $2000 in the last minute and then not meet reserve to boot. I am wondering if it was really for sale or was this an attempt to just price the bike. See string below for URL to this auction page.

   RE:MISC:   The dream is over posted by Art on 3/13/2002 at 5:43:49 AM
I don't really get the whole reserve thing. It seems to me if you want to sell something, the straight forward thing to do is to claim what your minimum price would be. What's the point of having people quess at what your reserve might be? I just don't get the thinking behind it. Sometimes a seller will say what the reserve is on an item, say $45. But the first bid is $10 dollars. What? Does that give me $35 to spend as practice, since it doesn't really count since it doesn't make reserve? I think you're right, Ray, that often high reserves are used to flesh out high bids, or to test the market without having to sell the item. Would the seller then go back to the highest bidder and offer the item to him or her? Would they get more money for an item that way than if they had a lower reserve?

On the other hand, I just sold a set of Paturaud toe clips on e-bay that I found on a junked bike, and that were way to big for me, to a Japanese buyer for nearly $90. They weren't worth $90 to me. I started them at $10, knowing the NOS ones had gone for over $120. It was the first time I offered anything for sale. Now here's the weird part. I like money and the classic bike stuff it can buy as much as the next guy, but I'm not jumping up and down about selling these clips for so much money. I didn't get into this bike thing to make money, not that I have an endless stash of high end French bike parts to dump on e-bay. Neither am I going to throw the money into the trash, but, and you might think this is stupid, I think I feel better trading somebody something, or finding something in the trash than I do making a business out of this. I feel like I ripped this guy off even though I know I didn't. I'm perplexed but solvent, which I suppose is better than being perplexed and broke! Art...or maybe it's the 80 degree heat in Phoenix.

   Unreal prices for Cambio Corsa posted by Steven on 3/13/2002 at 10:45:39 AM
I too cannot fathom the prices offered for this bike. As I mentioned below, the bike is most definitely not a Bianchi to start off with. It also does not have an original fork, is in terrible shape and in a frame size that is not overly appealing in the market. It also has no 'patina' because the original finish is is such bad shape that you would need to redo the whole bike just to ensure that it does rust away. What does this make my repainted Ciclo Piave with Cambio Corsa and perfect chrome worth? What about the Ganna, again with Cambio Corsa, that I have waiting in Italy to be brought back to the USA the next time I go over? I honestly did not expect this bike to go over $1000 and the $2023 didn't even meet the reserve? Whoa, maybe I need to increase my insurance coverage.

Speaking of bicycles, I am looking to trade my 1933 Umberto Dei bike with Vittoria Margherita and ash rims, as it is simply too small for me. You can see it at the following URL: http://oldroads.com/pqdb_img.asp?p=fdbdown.asp?478&mod=Dei_&mak=Umberto_ I am interested in finding a two-person highwheel sociable, such as seen in the following URL http://www.copakeauction.com/02bikeimages/014.jpg

I would also consider selling it outright

   RE:RE:MISC:   The dream is over posted by Gralyn on 3/13/2002 at 3:04:34 PM
Yes, I don't get the reserve price thing either. And many of those auction items....I believe are rigged. Especially when there is no reserve - and someone has bid high - and you think to yourself - there's no way the item is worth that much.

   RE:MISC:   The dream is over posted by Warren (Australia) on 3/14/2002 at 11:19:18 AM
Can someone tell me the item no. of this bike on Ebay? Would like to have a look at the pix.


   eBay item #1079595748 posted by John E on 3/14/2002 at 2:26:38 PM
The URL for the ugliest $2000 fake Bianchi I have ever seen:

   RE:eBay item #1079595748 posted by Aldo Ross on 3/15/2002 at 7:57:50 AM
Two years ago you could have had a nicely restored silver Bottecchia with Cambio Corsa for $2200, or a nice original Fiorelli similarly equipped for $1600.

   RE:MISC:   The dream is over posted by Warren (Australia) on 3/15/2002 at 11:39:43 AM
Intersting bike. The head lugs would suggest it is not a Bianchi from that era. The Quick release's have the earlier type adjusting nuts. Anyone seen that pattern on the seat clamp before? The rust on the Corsa mechanism, clamps and springs is the biggest worry. I've brought some sad bikes back to life, but would not like to pay that much for a 'project'.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Gran Prix posted by: Mark Kalmus on 3/11/2002 at 7:47:35 PM
I have a Gold Raleigh Super Gran Prix that I purchased new in 1980 or 1981. How can I find the precise age and value? Where can I locate repair documentation? The rear hub ring loosens on long rides and I have to repack the bearings.

Thanks in advance.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Gran Prix posted by wellesley on 3/14/2002 at 9:16:47 PM
I bought one last year at the thrift shop for $24.

No rust, apparently not ridden much. I just bought
it for parts and junked the frame.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531 BCA posted by: Dan on 3/10/2002 at 8:40:57 PM
I bought a BCA brand 531 tubed roadbike in 1986 which I still own. Is there a story behind the company, are they still around, and who made their Reynolds built bike's ? I believe the company was in Bethleham, PA. I had seen lower end model's sold mostly in LBS's but my 531 built had early Shimano 105 scroll group and Takagi crankset all for around $600. Where and who may have built these 531 frames for BCA ?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531 BCA posted by Chris on 3/11/2002 at 7:37:26 AM
Bicycle Corporation of America
2811 Brodhead Road
Bethlehem, PA 18017

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531 BCA posted by Stacey on 3/11/2002 at 12:01:59 PM
I dunno. Last summer I picked up a BCA road bike. After doing extensive internet research I came upon the information you offer, calling the number I was luaghed into oblivion by the party on the other end of the line. Between fits he managed to communicate that BCA had gone bankrupt years ago and wished me "Good luck finding any trace of them."

Just my experience.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531 BCA posted by Kevin K on 3/11/2002 at 9:12:10 PM
Hi. I picked up a Browning ( made for the firearms company ) a few years back. The lugs had the stamping BCA in them. Just another piece of the puzzle.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531 BCA posted by Dan on 3/12/2002 at 1:30:18 AM
The Browning was a bike I remember from the 70's bike boom era, unsure of the connection to Stacey and my BCA brand bike's pertaining to the lug ID. Stacey, could you give me some detail about your BCA, year, tubeset, groupo and even color? I really like the way the seatstays wrap to the front of seatlug on my model, a nice touch I'm thinking about adding when I begin my own framebuilding work this spring.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531 BCA posted by Stacey on 3/12/2002 at 3:00:25 AM
I only had it a short time, turned it quick and doubled my money paid $5.00, got $10.00. Now I'm retired in Florida. LOL

From what I remember Dan, this wasn't a high end bike. No name Alloy hoops & hubs, Q/R in front, nuts in back. Interesting alloy sidepulls with a Q/R built into the caliper Nichi Chi or something like that was the branding. Bars were TTT and I think the frame was 1020, 1040 as were the forks. Deep Red Metalic & Silver, with Gold piping around the quite ornate lugs. This was a HUGE frame! The top tube seemed like it was almost to my navel and I'm a long legged 5' 10". As for the year, I don't know. I found the bike interesting because of it's Allentown, PA origin. I'm just down the highway in Quakertown. As an aside, Ross bicycles were also made in Allentown.

Good luck with your steed. It's neat to see others with an interest in off-branders, they rule!

In the wind,

MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Luxe posted by: Rich on 3/10/2002 at 3:46:51 AM
I am planning on riding coast to coast of the U.S. this summer (or at least part of it). I have a 1985 Le Tour Luxe that I bought the year I graduated from High School. I used to ride it quite a bit fully loaded with panniers and etc. It has been awhile since I have had the time or money to take a long trip, so the Schwinn has been sitting. The Le Tour Luxe was a step below a paramount. It has braze-ons and is set up for touring. I am trying to decide if I want to stick to that bike or move up. Anyone have any suggestions? I recently read an article about an Alex Singer model bicyle set up for camping. Does anyone know anything about that and where I can find one?

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Luxe posted by Kevin K on 3/10/2002 at 4:28:05 PM
Hi Rich. I too happen to own a Letour Luxe. Great bike. However your coast to coast trip might be a bit more than the bike is ready for. First are the 27" tires. You'll be somewhat limited in finding a tough, quality tire. If your bike is like mine and you've got cantilever brakes you could always upgrade to 700's. Easy fix. Next, shifting. I love the old school friction shifting, but on a trip such as that you are considering index shifting would be a major plus. If your budget allows a newer bike could be the way to go and leave your Luxe sit this one out. Either way your trip sounds fun. I hope it happens for you. Enjoy, Kevin

   RE:It is not the bike! posted by John E on 3/11/2002 at 3:32:08 AM
Steve and Nathan (www.redacrossamerica.org) recently completed 4660 miles of loaded touring on two old Schwinns, including a LeTour. There is absolutely nothing wrong with friction shifting for a long ride! If your bike is too squirrelly when loaded, get barcons. I do agree about converting to 700C, in the interest of tyre selection, which is kind of where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. I would not hesitate to take a well-made, well-maintained older bicycle on a long tour, instead of wasting money on a new one.

   RE:RE:It is not the bike! posted by Kevin K on 3/11/2002 at 12:35:51 PM
John. I just love it when an experienced bike rider/owner blows my opinions all to pieces with valid comments. It was good to hear. This past summer I met 3 guys riding from Columbus, Oh to the UP of Mi. 2 were on mega dollar bikes, and an older gent was on a Krylon painted ?????? with sew ups. Experience once again wins. Kevin

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Luxe posted by Keith on 3/11/2002 at 3:37:50 PM
You might want to check the Rivendell site on some configurations they've found helpful other than the usual front and rear panniers. One combo is the large Carradice Camper seatbag combined with front panniers. I've loaded my Carradice up with lots of weight, and the affect on handling is minimal. I aggree with carry as little as possible. I recall an old saw from a 70s bike book -- figure out exactly what you need, then cut that in half!

   It is not the bike! posted by Steven on 3/10/2002 at 6:55:29 AM
The bike should be acceptable as long as you don't make the common mistake of carrying too much gear with you. My rule of thumb has always been, if you have even the slightest doubt that you might not use it, leave it home. If you plan to go camping, a bivouac sac is usually sufficient if you are travelling alone. If you go during the summer months, you might also think about one of the silver space blankets alone, leaving sleeping bags behind. Don't forget a credit card. Alex Singer is still located in the Paris area.

   RE:It is not the bike! posted by Your proctologist on 3/12/2002 at 3:01:22 AM
Save your butt and ride a Brooks leather saddle if you're going to be riding that long.

   leather posted by John E on 3/12/2002 at 2:18:37 PM
... or Ideale. Yes, despite the half-kilo weight penalty, there is nothing like an old-fashioned tensioned leather saddle for a long ride.

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Luxe posted by smg on 3/12/2002 at 4:57:53 PM
I measured my housemate's LeTour II last night, and it strikes me as a very good tourer, inferior in only fine details to the frame Matt Assenmacher built for me in 1980 and which served very well in a 1985 trip from Michigan to Seattle. No need to buy a new bike that I can see; while touring you have all the time in the world to shift gears and friction shifting would be more than adequate.
When I set up the above-mentioned bike, I opted for 27" wheels, thinking that there might be a better chance of finding a 27" tire than a 700c at a North Dakota hardware store in an emergency. That might have changed in the intervening 20 years, though.
Regarding gear: I heartily agree on the minimalist approach. My arrangement was two front panniers, a left rear pannier, and the tarp-wrapped sleeping bag carried slung from the right side of the rear carrier. The low position of the sleeping bag seemed to have a very good effect on the handling. I don't think I'd leave the sleeping bag behind, even in the summer--one morning in N.D. I woke up to frost on the tires.

   RE:MISC: Schwinn Le Tour Luxe posted by Eric J on 3/21/2002 at 4:55:14 AM
Just remember, 20 years ago, friction shifting was all there was. If riders waited for indexed shifting before setting out on long tours ... well, you figure it out.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn website posted by: John E on 3/9/2002 at 10:29:36 PM
Schwinn's new owners have purged the Schwinn.com website, removing all reference to the company's history, the collectors' forum, the "swap meet" forum, etc. Sad, but not at all surprising. I wish I had downloaded that great Schwinn timeline before they took it off the website.

   Schwinn website -- spoke too soon posted by John E on 3/9/2002 at 10:33:57 PM
I tried clicking on "bikes" again, and this time I got the old website, complete with forums and history. Sorry I jumped to a hasty conclusion over an apparent transient glitch in their web server.

   RE:Schwinn website -- spoke too soon posted by Oscar on 3/12/2002 at 3:02:57 AM
Yeah, but it wouldn't be surprising if that really happened. Long live Schwinn's good name.

AGE / VALUE:   IRC ROAD WINNER KELVAR BELTED 27" TIRES posted by: Kevin K on 3/9/2002 at 5:45:27 PM
Hi. I picked up a new pair of IRC 27x1 1/4" Road Winner tires in a trade situation. I'll never use them and thought I'd offer them up to guys on this site that really RIDE their vintage bikes with 27" tires. Very nice, lightweight. 100psi. Email please if inerested. Thanks, Kevin K

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   IRC ROAD WINNER KELVAR BELTED 27 posted by Keith on 3/11/2002 at 3:32:56 PM
I've used these tires and they are among the best 27" tires available. Nice ride!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   IRC ROAD WINNER KELVAR BELTED 27 posted by Kevin K on 3/11/2002 at 11:12:08 PM
Hi Keith. I probally should just keep em. You are the second guy that's told me they are good tires. I've offered up to a couple guys for $20 after repeat emails but still no takers. How long ago was it you rode on them ? Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   IRC ROAD WINNER KELVAR BELTED 27 posted by Hallyx on 3/12/2002 at 8:14:53 AM
Nashbar has IRC kevlars for 15 bucks. http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?brand=1162&init=y

Have no idea what this is, but they list 27" road tires. http://www.keepmore.com.tw/bptituvt/l.htm

There's some 27" kevlar Panaracers out there, but I lost the URL. I'll get back to you. Or Google yourself up a supplier.

Looks like we get to keep those inch wheels a while longer. Phew.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   IRC ROAD WINNER KELVAR BELTED 27 posted by Keith on 3/12/2002 at 6:53:42 PM
I've been riding them for about one year -- lots of commuting and club ride miles, and even some single track off-road on my Mercian. I still ride them on a Bottechia I have.

FOR SALE:   Raleigh cottered double chainwhl crank posted by: David on 3/9/2002 at 1:34:05 PM
NMA - Beautiful Raleigh double-chainwheel cottered crank with herons.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by: Frank on 3/9/2002 at 3:17:13 AM
Well, I just went today and bought that Tomassini fixed gear at my LBS. A beautiful bike indeed. The model is a "Super Prestige". Where does this rank in the quality level of Tomassini frames? I rode it a bit today, because I just couldn't resist (although I am going to park it until I lose a few pounds). It's a sweet ride. I decided that the fixed gear thing is probably not for me ,so I'm preparing to convert it back to a derailleur shifted bike. Being quite shallow of pocket, I am probably going to try to put Shimano Ultegra stuff on it rather than Campy. The frame has Campy dropouts with the hanger still intact. I tried threading a derailleur bolt into it today (from a Sun Tour derailleur) and it went in okay at first but seemed to meet with a bit of resistance. Not wanting to ruin the dropouts I stopped after much more than finger pressure was needed. Does the dropout have Italian threads, or are they standard metric threads. I know the BB is Italian threaded, but unsure about the dropouts. Are the water bottle and shifter braze ons an unusual thread as well? They both seemed to behave the same way when standard metric bolts were tried in them. Also, does anybody have a serial # chart for Tomassini frames to determine the date of mfg.? Thanks a lot in advance for the help!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Walter on 3/9/2002 at 3:54:39 AM
To the best of my knowledge threaded der. hangers are pretty much a standard thread the exception that I know of being older French frames. I've threaded any # of derailleur brands into any # of dropouts over the years and I've never seen a shop or catalog make reference to der. hanger threading. I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong. My advice would be to use some WD40 and a wire brush and clean the threads thoroughly as well as apply some grease when you reinstall for real.
eBay and Campy-Only.com are excellent places to hunt for equipment. I picked up a complete Campy Super Record group including seatpost and built wheels for 250$ at Campy-Only.

Obviously that's not the site for hunting for Shimano though!

Ultegra is fine stuff. There's a current thread about Shimano 600 just below. Ultegra is the successor to the old 600 label. If you want to go new 9 speed have a shop verify that your rear triangle is wide enough. The older but still more than adequate 7-8 speed stuff should be fine. I run Campy Ergo 8 on a steel Colnago and don't honestly have a need for 9 or 10 speeds.
I can't help with dating, sorry.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Warren on 3/9/2002 at 1:11:36 PM
Go Campy!

A used Super Record derailleur will outlast several Shimano counterparts because it can be rebuilt. Take you time buying piece by piece while you are trying to attain your goals. The crankset will be the item that will set you back a couple of hundred.

You will thank yourself for not hurrying yourself when putting this back together. You've bought the most important part first. Finish it off properly. Everytime a vintage bike enthusiast looks at your bike they will be revelling at the glory of the bike instead of immediately thinking "shame about that groupo". This may sound elitist but it's very true.

If you really can't go Campy, then try to cobble together something more "continental" until you can get ther real thing...I've got an NOS Ofmega clamp-on front derailleur you can have but I suspect yours is likely a braze-on. Sachs-Huret, Gnutti, Mavic, Gipiemme, Universal, Modolo. are all components that would better suit your bike.

Sorry but I'm a bit anti-Shimano...I just hate big bullies...(Microsoft, government...all of them)

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Kevin K on 3/9/2002 at 1:34:44 PM
Warren. Easy, Big Brother is reading this also so he can fix up his Vintage Bianchi. I like the comment about keeping all the components from the Continent. I like Japanses components on bikes that came factory supplied with them. Last sommer I fitted a NOS Suntour Seven group onto a 72 Super Sport frame. Looked great from about 10 plus ft. away. However, upclose well................ Stick with European goods. They'll show up. Enjoy, Kevin

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Website correction posted by Walter on 3/9/2002 at 1:53:10 PM
From my post above it should be campyonly.com. I inserted a hyphen that would probably make the URL invalid. Just cruised their site and nothing jumped out but bargains do appear. I think I did pretty well that one time and I'm sure I'm not unique.

I agree with the desirability of Campy on that frame though I'd have to say some of the prettiest and smoothest running components I've seen were the mid to late 80s SunTour Superbe. Nicer IMO than any of the Shimano competitors though I guess not nice enough. As an aside, on another forum a presumably younger cyclist was talking about how great it is that there are 2 component manufacturers and that we have choices. Oh if only they knew.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Keith on 3/11/2002 at 3:40:52 PM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Keith on 3/11/2002 at 3:40:52 PM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Keith on 3/11/2002 at 3:40:52 PM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Keith on 3/11/2002 at 3:40:53 PM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Keith on 3/11/2002 at 3:44:05 PM
Sorry about the repeats. THIS IS ITALIAN STEEL -- IT DESERVES CAMPY!!!!! Look at the new stuff -- Centaur and Veloce nine-speed triple. Excellent and really durable stuff! There have been advances. The oversized axles are smart and stronger than the old skinny steel ones. The Veloce has an oversized steel axle -- perfect for a bigger rider. If you don't want Ergo levers, get the barcons.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Bill Putnam on 3/11/2002 at 5:24:05 PM
Although some people have mentioned that they prefer the new
dual pivot brakes, I have no complaints about my Campy
Record sidepulls that I've been using since new in 1981.
Check out http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.15.html
for a discussion of the different types of brakes. Also,
Sheldon Brown has a nice discussion on brakes at
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html Although the
original non aero style Campy levers work fine, I prefer
the modern aero style with the cable running to the rear
of the lever rather than out the top. This puts the cables
out of the way of your hands. The Shimano 105 calipers
should work fine if set up properly with good cables.

As John E mentioned, some PX-10's did come with clinchers
and 14-26 freewheels. My first good bike was a PX-10 set
up this way (Mavic E clinchers and 14, or 13 -26 6 speed

You might have your LBS run a standard 10mm X 26 tpi tap
through your derailler hanger and a standard 5mm-.8 tap
through the water bottle/shift lever bosses.

Bill Putnam

   Dual Pivots posted by Keith on 3/11/2002 at 6:58:08 PM
Dual pivots are better stoppers -- but they can be too good. Last year a friend of mine -- a very experienced cyclist -- grabbed the brake lever a little too hard and immediately locked the back wheel, fishtailing in a skid for about 50 feet, landing in a flower bed. The best combination I've found is the newer Campy dual pivot front, single bolt rear on a bike I have set up with Chorus. I'm setting up another bike with Centaur, but plan to try it with a NR rear brake, Centaur dual pivot front.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Frank on 3/9/2002 at 4:13:25 PM
Well, you guys have pretty well convinced me, I think I'll try to stick with Campy stuff. I always thought I couldn't afford Campy after seeing some of the prices on the Bay, but I seen some stuff at campyonly.com that seemed more reasonable. I really wanted to stick with Campy anyhow. It just seems to fit the bike. The bike already has a Campy crankset (needing only the outer chainring), and a Campy aero seatpost. I originally reported that I thought it had dura ace componentry, but the only thing dura ace is the front hub. It has shimano 105 brakes and levers, a Mavic rear hub, Mavic rims, a Mavic headset and Cinelli stem and bars. I plan to replace the stem. It's waaaaay too long for me. I really only need a front (braze on btw, in reference to an earlier post. Thanks anyhow!) and rear derailleur, shifters and a freewheel to get it going again. I will probably do this first, and try to replace the brakeset later as money allows. The bike is quite the mish-mash of parts, I'll admit, but $200 seemed reasonable. I wish I knew what year the frame was made so I could use period correct parts (eg. indexed or not, aero brake levers or not, etc.). I'll keep everybody posted as this project slowly progresses. Thanks a lot to all that provided their help.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Kevin K on 3/9/2002 at 7:05:04 PM
Hi Frank. Your comment about period correct pieces got me thinking ( this scares my wife and kids ) I've a 1984 Letour. I like the way the bike feels but hated the way it looked. I removed everything save for the 27" wheelset. I now have pieces ranging from a 60's 3t Italian stem to a Sugino Super Maxi crankset polished to look like chrome. The Weinmann 27" rims recieved the same polish treatment. A set of 70's Schwinn Approved Letour derailleurs were added over the Suntour Mountech's. Next,a set of French bars wrapped with a NOS old Italian satin finish black bar tape. The bike is a bluish green metallic color. A set of Continental Super Sport 27x1 1/4" tires in the beautiful bronze color really set the bike off. Now I like it. Alot. I guess I'm say build the bike up with personality, possibly not period correct but interesting. Food for thought. Kevin

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Kevin K on 3/9/2002 at 7:05:54 PM
Hi Frank. Your comment about period correct pieces got me thinking ( this scares my wife and kids ) I've a 1984 Letour. I like the way the bike feels but hated the way it looked. I removed everything save for the 27" wheelset. I now have pieces ranging from a 60's 3t Italian stem to a Sugino Super Maxi crankset polished to look like chrome. The Weinmann 27" rims recieved the same polish treatment. A set of 70's Schwinn Approved Letour derailleurs were added over the Suntour Mountech's. Next,a set of French bars wrapped with a NOS old Italian satin finish black bar tape. The bike is a bluish green metallic color. A set of Continental Super Sport 27x1 1/4" tires in the beautiful bronze color really set the bike off. Now I like it. Alot. I guess I'm say build the bike up with personality, possibly not period correct but interesting. Food for thought. Kevin

   derailleur hanger threads posted by John E on 3/9/2002 at 10:28:15 PM
On a bicycle, if a given bolt threads only a few turns into a receptor before binding, you are likely trying to match a 24TPI thread with a millimeter thread. Try a Campy derailleur hanging bolt, irrespective of which derailleur you decide to use. (The Italians are notorious for matching metric diameters with 24TPI whitworth thread pitch -- look at their bottom brackets!)

Matching of components to a frame is a matter of personal taste. Although I have kept the Bianchi mostly Italian, I do have Continental tyres (they are admittedly controversial, but they have served me extremely well, so far) and wrong-continent/wrong-period Shimano aero brake levers, because the reach of the original Modolos was a slightly too long for my hands. My 1959 Capo has early 1970s, decidely non-original, Nervar Star cranks, Campy seat post, and SunTour derailleurs, but I am unwilling to go back to cottered steel cranks, a steel seat post, and Campy Gran Sport derailleurs for this commuting and transportation bike.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Hmmn posted by Walter on 3/10/2002 at 3:07:43 AM
Regarding components I pretty much go along with John's and Kevin's thoughts. Build the bike you want.

One thing about brakes. Those 105s you have which I sorta assume are dual pivot are excellent. Switching to vintage Campy single pivot side-pulls would not be an improvement but a big step in the wrong direction IMO. Like all other posters I like, even obssess over vintage roadies. However sometimes reality must be acknowledged. The S. Record gruppo I've mentioned in other posts is great but I use newer dual pivots and the originals are sitting in my parts box. I enjoy accelerating but I NEED to stop. I've gone to the trouble and expense of using newer Campy Records (a pain I'd add since Campy no longer puts the quick release on a caliper arm so I had to track down an older Chorus lever). I've used 105s and since you've got them I'd say keep them.

A S. Record rear der. is a thing of beauty though far from cheap and is well worth hunting around for. The hunt is a big part of the fun.

   frame versus components posted by John E on 3/10/2002 at 3:47:53 AM
For classic bikes, the frame-component match dilemma arises because components have improved so much more than frames have. If you have a nice full-531 frame which you want to ride instead of merely display, why hobble it with cottered cranks, a too-narrow or too-sparse gearset, or low-leverage brakes? To me, preserving the original paint, chrome, and decals is far more critical than having precisely the catalogue-listed complement of components. As I have mentioned in the past, plenty of PX-10s went out the shop door with low-profile clinchers instead of tubulars, and 14-26 freewheels instead of 14-21s. If you are purely a collector or nostalgia buff, the decision is different; after all, the worst-shifting, worst-braking Schwinn Continentals, the wingnutted, Simplex-and-Weinmann-sidepull-equipped 1960s, are by far the most sought-after.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Frame Age posted by Walter on 3/10/2002 at 1:16:54 PM
One thing to help narrow down the age is to measure the width between the dropouts. Newer frames meant to run Shimano 9 or Campy 9/10 speed systems will have a 130mm spread. If this is what you have figure it's from the mid-90s or so (that's an estimate I'm not positive when the 9 and 10 speed systems came out). 126mm or so would push the frame back into the 80s or maybe earlier which is my guess since it had been converted to a fixed gear trainer. It's alot easier to get a straight chainline with closer DOs. Of course it's pretty easy for a good shop to reset DOs to 130mm on an older frame so this is far from definitive.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Frank on 3/13/2002 at 7:13:38 PM
I thank everybody that replied for all the useful information. You've all been really helpful. You've all made me feel ashamed for even considering putting anything but Campagnolo components on the Tommasini:) As soon as I get some more bike money, I'll be searching for front and rear derailleurs and shifters, all Campy. As far as the freewheel is concerned, what would be appropriate? The frame is spaced at 126 mm. Should I get a 5, 6 or 7 speed FW? Does Campy make freewheels? What other brands would be appropriate? As far as age goes, I found the Tommasini website, and I am going to email them with my serial numbers and see if they can track down the age. Thanks to everyone again for putting up with my ignorance about European bikes and their components. This has certainly been a learning experience for me!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tomassini/Campy Dropouts posted by Walter on 3/13/2002 at 11:41:39 PM
Hey Frank:
Campy made freewheels. Hideously expensive and really only race appropriate. Today they're rare and still hideously expensive. Regina would be the preferred FW from a purist's standpoint. They're getting rare and aren't exactly free either. I think many would agree that the SunTour Winner series was excellent. They're all aroundf eBayt and shops NOS still. I run a DuraAce on a Basso that is Campy S. Record. It's a great FW. They show up on eBay regularly. Probably still at a number of shops too. SRAM still makes FWs and I understand them to be very good and they're European too (I think).

You're looking at a 5 or narrow (Ultra) spaced 6 speed FW. I'm not sure if you could get a Ultra 7 in there or not. Others will have a definitive answer.

   freewheel choice posted by John E on 3/14/2002 at 2:24:46 PM
The cogs on 5-speed and standard 6-speed freewheels are farther apart than those on ultra 6-speed and standard 7-speed freewheels. Therefore, the following combinations work best:
120mm OLD: 5-speed or ultra 6-speed
126mm OLD: standard 6-speed
128mm OLD: standard 7-speed
In practice, any 126mm steel frame will readily accommodate a 7-speed freewheel, and a 120 can be cold-set to do so. I have converted two of my old road bikes to 7-speed SRAM freewheels; the Peugeot has a standard-width Regina 6-speed with a triple chainring.

FOR SALE:   Italian bike with Cambio Corsa posted by: John E on 3/8/2002 at 10:15:36 PM
Check this out:

   RE:FOR SALE:   Italian bike with Cambio Corsa posted by Kevin K on 3/9/2002 at 8:37:04 PM
Hi John. Thanks for the posting. Looks like a fun project. I liked the brazing/finish work on the rear dropouts. Dig those funky derailleurs man. COOL ! Kevin

     Italian bike with Cambio Corsa posted by John E on 3/10/2002 at 3:34:27 AM
Recommended reading: in "The Dancing Chain," Berto's discussion of the Cambio Corsa, including pictures of Gino Bartali and Frank Berto and their respective levels of success and grace in using the thing. Even Bartali, the "master of the Cambio Corsa," had changed over to a more conventional parallelogram derailleur by the early 1950s.

   Coppi Paris-Roubaix gear posted by Steven on 3/10/2002 at 7:17:16 AM
This bike is most definitely not a Bianchi. The seat collar is not from a Bianchi, the headset is also wrong for a Bianchi. Bianchi only made bikes with the Corsa gear having integrated headset races. The chainset is also not Bianchi. The fork is badly damaged (bent) the gear levers need rechroming... Likely this was made by one of the many smaller frame builders that still exist everywhere in Italy.

As for John's comment about Bartali changing over to parallelogram by the 1950's, you could still see top riders using Corsa and Paris-Roubaix much later. Coppi won with the Paris-Roubaix in 1952. On Italian TV, Bartali was also known to say that he liked the Corsa and the Paris-Roubaix because it was silent and had less friction than a parallelogram. Try one and you will be a believer (as ong as you don't shift too often)

   RE:Coppi Paris-Roubaix gear posted by Aldo Ross on 3/10/2002 at 2:49:11 PM
Bent or not, the heavy outlines on the fork crown aren’t a match for the finer lugwork elsewhere on the bike… I’d say that’s a replacement fork.

Coppi won Paris-Roubaix in 1950 (ref. "A Century of Paris Roubaix" by Pascal Sergent), using a the single-lever "cambio Paris-Roubaix" mech. In 1951 Antonio Bevilacqua won, also using the single lever version. Rik van Steenbergen won in 1952, using Huret derailleur.

By the 1951 Tour de France Coppi (g.s. Bianchi), Bartali (g.s. Bartali), Magni (g.s. Gana), and most of the other Italian pros had switched to the "Gran Sport" derailleurs (ref. "Fausto Coppi" by Jacques Augendre). I’ve been unable to find photographic evidence of cambio Corsa or cambio Paris-Roubaix in the pro ranks after 1951.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Paramount in chrome posted by: Walter on 3/8/2002 at 2:53:17 AM
eBay #1810363089. I wonder what the reserve is? Seller doesn't seem to be a "bike" person but the description seems pretty knowledgable. Bike's in Cal. and she doesn't want to ship. Removes some temptation from my life.

As a kid working part-time in a Schwinn shop in N. Miami Beach in the late-70s I remember lusting after a Super LeTour (12.2?) in chrome. Sold for something like 400$ as I recall. It was very much a "Varsity" type of shop and I never saw a Paramount or even recall hearing of them until later. LeTours were the top of the line in the shop.

That chrome LeTour was sharp though and so is this Paramount.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Paramount in chrome posted by Keith on 3/8/2002 at 3:46:09 PM
A high school buddy rode one of these -- I always lusted for it. His had cool red striping around the lugs. He was great with tools, and he took one of those aluminum bells and drilled it out with spiral patterns. He still has the bike.