This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bluemells posted by: Tom on 3/3/2002 at 1:28:30 AM
Is there anyone who needs Bluemells club mudguards? I'm wondering if there is anyone who has them for sale in the US or Canada. I found a guy who has lots of them NOS on the other side of the pond. Quite a few colors. If I bring them to North America I have to bring at least 10 sets to make it worth it because of the shipping. I only need 2 of them. I would sell them for $50 each plus shipping. Is this a reasonable cost. Anyone interested.I cannot bring them unless I get at least 10 sets.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bluemells posted by Aldo Ross on 3/3/2002 at 12:35:06 PM
Value and demand may depend on what colors you have. Does the price include all the mounting hardware? "Yellow Jersey" sold their last few pairs with replacement ESGE hardware for about $45 (metallic red and metallic blue).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bluemells posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/3/2002 at 7:54:52 PM
So you don't buy them all, pay a fortune to have it shipped over, and have a party to celebrate the arrival of all those pretty, vintage mudguards? You mean that they're not all scattered all over the living room! Well, You obviously don't love vintage Blumels
mudguards like I do! One of the ones to look out for is the yellow/ white "Noweight" with the feather in gold. Good luck!
A friend of mine accidentally cracked one of his and he was just heartbroken! Sick at heart, He was angry with himself. Worse yet, was that I couldn't send him one to match it up to make it all better because I did not have one like the one he broke in my stash! He got all quiet and I tried to snap him out of it but to no avail. It was a depresing, aweful call. He took it too hard. Now that's the soul of a vintage bike collector!
I wish the company would rise again from whatever happened to it and make these again! The whole cool range, in all the colors and styles that they ever did. I would love that!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bluemells posted by Tom on 3/4/2002 at 3:47:10 AM
The mudguards have the mounting hardware with them. These are NOS Bluemells. The colors are Black, Yellow, Red, Blue, Light Blue, Gold, Greyish Silver and Maroon.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bluemells posted by Bill Putnam on 3/4/2002 at 5:19:37 PM
Budget Bicycle Center in Madison, WI has Bluemels fenders
(mudgaurds) in stock

Budget Bicycle Center
1202 Regent St.
Madison WI 53715
(608) 251-8413

Roger Charly is the owner. Ask for him if the person you
talk to isn't familiar with the fenders.

Bill Putnam

     Bluemells posted by John E on 3/4/2002 at 5:32:23 PM
How much tyre clearance do these requre? I would love to put a set on the Peugeot PKN-10, and with 700Cx28 tyres instead of 27 x 1-1/8, I just might have enough room, although it will be a much tighter squeeze than the ESGEs on the Capo.

   RE:  Bluemells posted by Bill Putnam on 3/6/2002 at 7:06:39 PM

I measured the distance along the seat stay from the center
of the axle on the
outside of the rear drop out to the center of the brake
bridge of my Dunelt, which has Bluemells "Popular" fenders on it and a 700 X 32 C tire. This distance measured 370mm.
The rear spacing on this frame is 116mm, so if you have a
120mm or other rear drop out spacing the actual distance between the tire and brake bridge may vary slightly. On my
Dunelt there is adequate clearance between the tire and
fender, but I don't believe a 35C width tire would fit.

Bill Putnam

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes redux posted by: Hallyx on 3/2/2002 at 9:24:29 AM
First, a thanks to Oscar for his translation of “Carpite Vestra Gaudia Ex Dawes” (“Get yer kicks from Dawes" ...indeed...sigh). And thanks,Dick, for the alert about the bottom bracket. (It’s stock paint, Dick. I used to custom paint motorcycles, so maybe I’m spoiled. But it’s a mediocre job by any standard. And I had no idea it would be so difficult to find an inexpensive local painter in Marin, CA.) Anyway, thank you all for the general advice on components and the encouragement for my (first) restoration project.

Found a runout ratty old Bianchi, worth it for the Campy shifter set and Ideal leather-covered touring saddle). Then, today, I found a set of Campy hubs laced with Weinmann rims of the early 70's (?) period. They were installed on a (are you ready?) Dawes frame, along with Campy headset, seatpost bolt, pump clamp, cable guide, Cinelli stem, 3ttt bars and nice looking SunTour Superbe brakes/levers. The rest is old SunTour and Sugino stuff. So, I bought the whole thing even though, Dick, the paint is even uglier.

Not sure buying whole, clapped out bikes just for the gear is the way to go. But I’ve found this place here in San Rafael, CA. that’s got lots of old stuff —- mostly middle-grade Japanese gear -— but occasional gems. Anyone looking for a rod-brake Raleigh 3-speed, or a gorgeous Raleigh 3-speed in dark blue with silver striping (if I had bucks, I’d buy that one to hang on my wall) or a Murray or a Bottechia? Other interesting and strange bikes and gear; anybody want a list?

Thanks again. Carpite vestra gaudia, amici.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes redux posted by Warren on 3/2/2002 at 6:45:24 PM
"...buying whole, clapped out bikes just for the gear..." is definitely the way to go! The sum of the parts is worth much more than the whole. This is NOT to say I agree with the purchase and parting out of quality vintage bikes...that is sacrilege! But when the frame is beat or mass manufactured like a Dawes Galaxy..then why not!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes redux posted by Oscar on 3/3/2002 at 12:54:09 AM
Vale Hallyx et mei alteri amici! I've put together 7 bikes out of clapped out old dumpster fodder. I've got boxes and boxes of cool (to me) parts. Every time I come across a nice frame I have to invent another purpose for a bike to put together.

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn World Sport - what year? posted by: Gralyn on 3/2/2002 at 1:14:45 AM
I have a Schwinn World Sport. Per the stamped date code on the head badge - it's either a 79 or an 89. It's in excellent condition. Here are some indicators which make me think it's 79:
Center Pull Brakes
Vinyl Handle bar tape
5-speed cassette
Has hex bolt on the stem (not the recessed allen bolt)
chrome rims

I have another world sport - which I assumed was from 87 which has:
Foam rubber grips
recessed allen bolt on stem
side pull brakes
6-speed cassette
quick release
aluminum alloy rims

Are there other things to look for to try and determine the date?

   1979 vs 1989 posted by John E on 3/2/2002 at 11:58:37 PM
You're interpreting things properly, Gralyn. Centerpull brakes and 5-speed freewheels went out of fashion around 1980.

AGE / VALUE:   World of Wheels posted by: Bryant on 3/1/2002 at 11:29:56 PM
Hi All. I have another interesting one. I have a Yellow "World of Wheels" 10 speed. It says made in Japan on the Seat stay by the Bottom bracket but no mention of type of tubing. Nicely lugged, Has Dia-Compe center pull brakes which according to Sheldon Brown puts it before 1980. It came with Arraya Alloy 27x1 1/4in wheels with Quick Realeases, Sunshine hubs, Cotterless 54/46 crank, SR seatpost,Sohrim Road Champion handlebars, DiaCompe forged stem, Suntour Compe -V Front Der, Sun Tour VGT Luxe Rear Der, And the Headset says Kuwahara Cycle. Besides having a great commuting bike now (it's a 24" frame and fits me), Can anyone tell me what I have stumble on??

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   World of Wheels posted by Gralyn on 3/2/2002 at 1:13:53 AM
I think I have something similar to yours - mine says Zebra Kenko - and it's a '76 model - with similar components.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   World of Wheels posted by David on 3/2/2002 at 1:36:41 PM
I remember "WOW" bikes when I was shopping for one for my wife in '76 or '77. I think it's a local distributor's brand, perhaps DC area. They were good quality Japanese bikes, not high-end.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   World of Wheels posted by Bryant on 3/4/2002 at 2:49:48 PM
Makes sense, I'm in the Baltimore region, and closer inspection of the frame has a 76 before the serial number. It's a keeper. Thanks

AGE / VALUE:   BLUE MONARK posted by: Hump on 3/1/2002 at 9:55:05 PM
Today at a 2nd hand store I found a blue Monark 10 speed with a benelux front derailer and williams cottered crank with the date code ZC, which according to hillarys information at bicycle rendezvouz on williams cranks makes it a 62. It also has huret downtube derailers but a shimano eagle rear derailer. Unfornately most of the original other parts besides the stem were replaced. It's in OK condition with a little rust and worn thru paint.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane posted by: Ian Kersey on 3/1/2002 at 2:25:30 AM
I need help identifying a recently acquired Gitane from the late '70s/early '80s. It is obviously not a Super Corsa or TdF, but I'm intrigued by the (French) Reynolds 531 decal on down tube. Also:

Lugs have heart-shaped cutouts
Fork is half chromed and has chromed fork crown
Painted rear stays with strange geometric dropouts
Rear brake-bridge has the same diamond shaped reinforcements on seat stays mentioned last week on this list
Low-end Simplex black plastic and metal shifters (identical to ones on 70's Peugeot UO-8s)
Simplex Prestige front derailleur and unidentified Simplex silver metal rear derailleur
Shimano Maxy crankset
MAFAC Racer brakeset with three Dura-ace top tube cable clips
Guid drop bars with Pivo stem
Nondescript headset
Lyotard quill pedals
Cheap plastic padded saddle
Mavic tubular rims on Normandy Sport hubs

Any ideas on the model? Is this bike the equivalent of the Peugeot P10/PA10E/PR10L series? Am curious why they would mate low-end components with a Reynolds 531 frame (fork is also not seamed).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane posted by Keith on 3/1/2002 at 3:04:18 PM
In terms of the remaining original equipment, it sounds like the Interclub model, but that was plain steel, not 531.

      Gitane posted by John E on 3/1/2002 at 3:14:18 PM
What is the exact French wording on the 531 decal? Is the 531 printed diagonally [Reynolds fork, stays, and butted main tubes "thoroughbred"] or horizontally [straight-gauge or d.b. Reynolds main triangle only]? My 1980 Peugeot PKN-10 says "3 tubes renforces [butted]," with no mention of "fourche" [fork] or "arrieres" [stays]. My fork blades have big ugly seams running down their backs, but Gitane and Motobecane workmanship and finishing tend to be superior. (My Columbus tretubi Bianchi is reputed to have seamed CrMo fork blades, but the seams are not visible.) I am guessing that you have a PR-10 equivalent, but with lesser cranks. The early 1970s Peugeot lineup for the U.S. market comprised:

AO-8: wingnuts; no chrome; half handlebar tape; steel cranks, rims; carbon steel frame; Normandy high-flange hubs
UO-8/UO-18 mixte: same, except: quick release; half-chrome forks; full handlebar tape
PA-10: same, except: aluminum rims; tubular tyres
PR-10: same, except: Reynolds 531 main triangle; aluminum Stronglight crankset; Brooks Pro saddle(?)
PX-10: same, except: full Reynolds 531 frame and fork; Normandy Luxe Competition hubs; Brooks Pro saddle

The PKN-10 Competition of the late 1970s and early 1980s is an updated PR-10, with tighter brake clearances, sidepull brakes, and 12 speeds. The Super Competition of the same era is a similarly updated PX-10.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane posted by Ian Kersey on 3/1/2002 at 6:57:02 PM
The Reynolds 531 decal is the horizontal type, with the following text "Construit Avec 3 Tubes Renforces"

At the bottom of the decal in what has to be 2pt font (or smaller) is "fabrication Reynolds Tube Co Ltd, Birmingham, Angleterre"

Does that help to narrow it to a specific Gitane model? Thanks to everyone who has replied.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane posted by Brian L. on 3/1/2002 at 8:11:59 PM
The geometric dropouts you mention are almost certainly Vitus as on my Mercier care of Art.

   yup, it's a PR-10/PKN-10 posted by John E on 3/1/2002 at 9:50:19 PM
Yes, you have a mixed tubeset, constructed (construit) with a double-butted (renforces) Reynolds 531 main triangle (3 tubes) and (presumably) carbon steel fork and stays. My TreTubi (main triangle) rinforzati (double-butted) Columbus Bianchi and my Peugeot PKN-10 (updated PR-10, as I mentioned in my earlier post) are indeed comparable, although my experience tells me that your Gitane's workmanship is probably somewhere between theirs.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   '67 Schwinn Super Sport AVA Stem ? posted by: Maurice on 3/1/2002 at 12:11:53 AM
Hi all,

I have a 1967 ladies Super Sport I'm working on and one of the first things I've noticed is the handlebar stem reads AVA. I know that is a French manufacturer - but can anyone tell me if the AVA stem would have been standard on that vintage Super Sport. I've read that the '67 was the first year schwinn introduced the shifting stem on the headset. The bike also has nice Sprint derailleurs and Ideale seat/clamp. From disassembling the bike the handlebar stem was difficult to remove. Could it be original to that year? I know Schwinn was notorious for sometimes using different parts/manufacturers from year to year. THe handlebars are racing style and I've seen similar year ladies models with the upright "tourist" bars. If the AVA is not original I'll be glad to trade with anyone who needs that AVA stem for a Schwinn stem and or correct handlebars.

Many Thanks,

      '67 Schwinn Super Sport AVA Stem posted by John E on 3/1/2002 at 3:24:45 PM
Good news: That stem is probably original, and would be much lighter than Schwinn's all-steel alternative. The rule on 1960 through mid-1970s Varsities, Continentals, and even their higher-end fillet-brazed CrMo cousins is that almost all components not made by Schwinn are French, except for the [Swiss] Weinmann brakes.

Bad news: read sheldonbrown.com's strongly-worded advisory about the AVA "stems of death," which is what I suspect you have.

My recommendation: replace the stem with something modern and reliable and save the AVA for a future collector/buyer, as the Super Sports are just becoming collectible and will be increasing in value over the next few years.

   RE:   '67 Schwinn Super Sport AVA Stem posted by Kevin K on 3/1/2002 at 5:42:02 PM
Hi. I've located several aluminum stems that are probally early to mid 60's pieces. These are I'm sure French made and look just like others I've seen that said Sprint on them. These are the smaller Schwinn diameter and say Schwinn Approved. There pretty sharp. Watch ebay, or hit the swap meets. I've located them at swap meets for as little as $1 for good used, $5 for NOS items.Enjoy, Kevin K

   RE:   '67 Schwinn Super Sport AVA Stem posted by Maurice on 3/1/2002 at 11:54:28 PM
Thanks John and Kevin, I too read the article you refer to from Sheldon Brown's French Bicycle section. The AVA stem itself is really not bad looking - surely a lightweight alloy of some kind that polished up extremely well - but the bolt and nut that holds the handle bar steady was uncoated steel and was very rusted throughout - I have a '73 Super Sport and the alloy stem has the ever present S stamped on as does my '73 Continental, different looking stem...though still lightweight alloy - the only real difference between the Varsity and Continental is the quick-release hubs/brakes lightweight alloy stem/handlebars and center-pull brakes. The '67 still has the Schwinn Approved brakes on the handlebars. So yes it may be original - but I thought the ladies was only offered as tourist model - that prompted my suspicion. Anyway, thanks for the input guys.

   Varsity vs. Conti. posted by John E on 3/3/2002 at 12:01:25 AM
The one consistent difference between Varsities and Continentals in all model years is that the Contis always had tubular forks, whereas the Varsities had cheap, crude flat-bladed forks, instead.

AGE / VALUE:   Restoring a 3 Rensho posted by: John S on 2/28/2002 at 9:51:54 PM
I've been contemplating restoring a 3 Rensho frame & fork. It's really beautifully made, probably from the late 70's - early 80's. I've seen the Yellow Jearsy site for replacement transfers and the CR site that has a catalogue photo that is just like my frame. The frame has several small dents along the top tube and one seat-stay, like something fell on it. Otherwise seems great. But some rust...the fork is all chrome and has many rust spots under a clear-coat.

Advise needed: Is it worth it to rechrome the fork? Or just paint it? Also I've read that rechroming is expensive, but what should I expect to pay?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Restoring a 3 Rensho posted by Warren on 2/28/2002 at 11:40:28 PM
3 Rensho made (makes?) top quality bikes. The dents are a bit of a deterrent to spending a huge amount of money on the restoration. Why not get the paint job, get it on the road and then assess whether you want to spend 75 or100 bucks on a good rechroming. You get what you pay for so stay away from fly-by-night auto chroming shops. Maybe a shop that does Harleys (or bikes) would be best.

    3 Rensho posted by John E on 3/1/2002 at 3:31:08 PM
If I ever contract Cyclart for a high-quality refinishing job on my 1959 Capo, I will not have the forks, stays, and lugs rechromed, partly because I live within a km of the Pacific Ocean. In my experience, the chrome is the first thing to go.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Magneet, Holland ten speed posted by: Joel on 2/28/2002 at 9:47:27 PM
Haven't seen this brand before, Magneet, made in Holland. Ten speed Chromo frame, Huret components, cool wing nuts, chrome fork ends. It really stands out on the bike rack at the thrift store. Anyone know of this brand?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Magneet, Holland ten speed posted by Kevin K on 3/1/2002 at 1:03:19 AM
Hi. Made in Holland. Huret compenents. Cool wing nuts. Sound like the bikes looking for a new home. Yours. If it's really reasonable as most are ( $10-20 ) I'd buy it simply because....................it's cool ! Enjoy it, Kevin K

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campagnolo brake levers posted by: Colin Barratt on 2/28/2002 at 4:02:22 PM
I've just been rummaging in some boxes of old kit cleared from another guy's garage a while ago. In amongst it was a pair of Campagnolo levers. They are probably from the early 80's as they can be used aero or non-aero. They are made of grey plastic with white hoods and have a push though quick release button which rests against one of two asymmetrical extensions on either side of the black plastic body. The lever blades are reinforced by an internal web of plastic and they have "Made in Italy" stamped on both sides with the Campagnolo shield on the front. I didn't start cycling until after these were made - can anyone identify them for me?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campagnolo brake levers posted by ken on 3/1/2002 at 1:44:27 AM
look up twowheelfetish.com for comparables, or for more info try eric at campyonly.com, the excellent _unofficial_ campy site. These are probably worth a hefty chunk of change.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campagnolo brake levers posted by Walter on 3/1/2002 at 7:00:55 PM
I don't know where in the line-uo they were placed. A pair on eBay sold for 25$ which is less than I paid for some aero style Chorus levers with the same style quick release. Campy still makes an aero non Ergo lever. It's a Record and in carbon and retails for over $100. I was looking around b/c I upgraded the brakes on my 80s Basso to modern dual pivots and needed a lever with integral QR.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campagnolo brake levers posted by Colin Barratt on 3/3/2002 at 10:40:44 AM
I've found out that they are Zenon levers and came as part of a downmarket brakeset with "painted" calipers. The material is Nylon and Renaissance have a full new set for $50 or so. I f anyone wants just the levers at much less than that plus postage send me an email. Colin.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Researching my "Schwinn???" frame posted by: Steve on 2/28/2002 at 4:38:07 AM
Help! I am trying to determine the heritage of my road bike frame...which I always thought was a mid-70's Schwinn Paramount...however it seems neither the serial number (SN)format nor SN location match that era/model. The SN is underneath the bottom bracket and is: 2C02730. The frame has been repainted from it's original metallic steel blue and all decals are gone. All components have been upgraded so no clues provided there either. The only other identifying feature is the Schwinn emblem located on the front of the neck. Does anyone recognize that SN format? Is this really a Schwinn? Paramount? Any information provided (good news or bad) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Researching my posted by Kevin K on 2/28/2002 at 12:41:11 PM
Hi Steve. Would you provide more info on the frame. Is there any writing on the dropouts? Braze ons? Headset ID. Bottom bracket ID. Kevin

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Researching my posted by Keith on 2/28/2002 at 4:38:44 PM
You're right about it not being a Paramount -- early 70s the Serial # would be on the left droput. Like Kevin, I'd want more info., like, describe the lugs -- are they plain, fancy, chromed? What kind of threading is the bottom bracket -- English, Italian, French? What kind of dropouts does it have -- Campy, Shimano, Suntour, Simplex, or plain unbranded?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Researching my posted by Maurice on 3/2/2002 at 12:03:28 AM
Steve I believe I read somewhere that the Paramounts had an altogether different serial number dating sequence apart from the other Schwinn models. There may be some info at the Waterford website explaining the dating system of the Paramounts. - Maurice

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Vitus 979 Geometry ??? posted by: John on 2/27/2002 at 5:18:05 PM
I just bought a vitus 979 frame and fork.
Don't know how old it is.
The seat-tube is 55.5 cm center-center.
The top-tube is 56 cm center-center.

I'd like to know what the head-tube and seat-tube angles of this frame are.

Anyone know, off the top of your head?



   need more data posted by John E on 2/27/2002 at 8:56:26 PM
One cannot determine the angles of a quadrilateral from the lengths of the sides. To compute the seat tube angle, first measure the distance from the center of the BB housing to the intersection of the centerlines of the head and top tubes. Then solve C*C = A*A + B*B + 2*A*B*cos(c) for cos(c) and take the inverse (arcos) function to obtain the angle.

You can similarly compute the head angle if you measure the length of the top tube (from center of top tube to center of downtube) and the distance from the intersection of the seat tube and top tube axes to the intersection of the head tube and downtube axes.

   correction posted by John E on 2/27/2002 at 8:58:33 PM
Sorry -- that's 2*A*B - cos(c) for the seat tube angle and 2*A*B + cos(c) for the head tube angle, since the former is inside the triangle and the latter is outside.

MISC:   Tange "infinity" Cr Mo Frame posted by: Craig B on 2/27/2002 at 1:50:31 PM
I was looking at updating the components my road bike, in looking at the frame it says "Tange, Infinity Cr Mo tubing". The bike is about 10 years old, compared to the present frames how does it rate?

   Tange tubing posted by John E on 2/27/2002 at 5:16:05 PM
My 1988 Schwinn mountain bike has Tange Prestige II CrMo. It is about a kg heavier than today's high-end hardtail mountain bikes, but otherwise holds its own quite nicely.

   RE:MISC:   Tange posted by Keith on 2/28/2002 at 4:50:18 PM
Tange makes good tubing, but I'm not familiar with Infinity -- I know of 1, 2, and 3 (1 is best). Some things to consider -- are you updating to modern compionents? If so, it's likely your rear droputs are 126, and the rear triangle will have to be cold set to 130. Opinions differ on whether this is a good idea. Is the tubing double butted? What equipment came on the bike -- if it was mid-range, perhaps it's not worth the investment, because when you buy a complete bike, everything is discounted, and compared to the price of buying a new groupo, the complete new bike may be a bargain. New frames run the spectrum. There's a lot of tigged aluminum stuff I wouldn't touch. There's still some great makers of steel bikes. A mechanic friend of mine considers the two best value contemporary steel frames to be Rivendell's Atlantis for touring applications, or the Tomassini for racing.

   130mm posted by John E on 2/28/2002 at 8:16:37 PM
For a steel frame, a cold-set from 126 to 130mm should be no problem at all. My cold-set caveat is that the right chainstay may bend more easily than the left, because of the dual clearance dimples (chainring and tyre).

   RE:MISC:   Tange posted by Keith on 2/28/2002 at 9:44:39 PM
I don't have a problem with it either, although a perfectionist mechanic freind of mine says that if you do it, you also need to have your dropouts re-paralleled, otherwise you'll risk breaking axles. The Data book shows a nice tool for spreading the stays -- you could easily make one with a long bolt, nuts, and something fabricated to fit against the stays. It should be done carefully, preferably by someone with experience. I once did a gorilla job on an old English 3-speed frame -- I was unpleasantly surprised how quickly the right chainstay bvent, easily, and suddenly, and the frame was cooked. Some hardcores, like Richard Sachs, I believe, would say any cold-setting of steel is a bad idea. Anyway, taking an old frame and buying a complete set of new or even used components may end up being more expensive than buying an equivalent new or used bike. I'd say only do it if the frame is top-end. Great components on a so-so frame will likely still give you a so-so ride.

   RE:MISC:   Tange posted by Craig B. on 3/1/2002 at 12:55:44 PM
The frame also has a sticker "low tempature welding". It looks like it is well made frame just a older technology.

Thanks for the input

   RE:MISC:   Tange posted by Keith on 3/1/2002 at 7:09:01 PM
I've heard of low temp brazing (i.e. silver) but never low temp welding. Your original question may have gotten lost in the shuffle. Since I don't know what kind of bike you have, I can't compare it to contemporary bikes. Other than marketing hype, things haven't changed all that much in 10 years. In general, today you can get a lighter frame (2-3 pounds without fork) for less, but the lightness isn't the result of some miracle material or process, as ads seem to suggest; rather it comes at the expense of strength and durability. The latest way of doing that is fatter, oddly shaped tubes and hence thinner walls on the tubes. The major frame materials today, aluminum, steel, titanium, and carbon, were all around 10 years ago. You can go to Sachs, Rivendell, Mercian, and others, and still get a lugged steel bike that's as nice as anything made 10, 20 or 30 years ago, and will last a lifetime.

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Varsity 24 inch tire size posted by: Wings on 2/27/2002 at 6:31:56 AM
I saw my first small version of a Schwinn Varsity. 24 inch wheels and it was all Varsity around 1975. It was in good shape. Did I walk away from a treasure?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Varsity 24 inch tire size posted by Keith on 2/27/2002 at 2:58:21 PM
This recent interest in Schwinn "lightweights" really has me wondering. Wings, I've seen your name in other discussion areas, and I'm assuming (sorry if I'm wrong) that you're entry point into collecting bicycles is ballooners or Sting Rays -- is that right? Anyway, since the Varsi-nentals were always scorened by riders of vintage lightweights, I've never given them a second glance as anything other than bomb-proof utilitarian trasnportation. Then a few first year Continentals showed up on eBay, and went for fairly serious bucks. Now I seem to see discussion of even Schwinn's Asian-made lightweights, which, again, I've never viewed as anything other than something to ride to the corner store. Like the other eletro-forged Schwinns, Vartities were made by millions. Well-preserved examples can be seen on city streets and at garage sales all of the time. I've seen two 24" models at garage sales, and passed them by, although now I'd wished I'd picked one up for $10 for my daughter. As I recall, early on in the Schwinn forum, Ballooner and Krate collectors laughed at Varsities. For completely different reasons, with the exception of early year models, which are rarer and of historical significance, mass-produced, welded Schwinns aren't anything like a true vintage lightweight, made by a skilled European craftsman, using the finest tubing. Is a 24" Varsity "collectable"? The answer is that all it would take is a couple few people on eBay to make it so. (I should mention that I have several Varsities and similar bikes for my family.)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Varsity 24 inch tire size posted by Wings on 2/27/2002 at 5:23:34 PM
Keith -- I knew what type of response I would get by posting this! You gave the perfect well balanced historical and emotional perfect answer. I didn't want to hear that! I wanted to hear: "One just went for $1000 on Ebay." I think these 24 inches may be something because they are a little more unique. However, I will not run out and pick it up although it had a great gooseneck (long quil stem) that I would love to have. I got rid of my own pre 64 Varsity three years ago and then the prices went up! I am azazed that the prices are higher on those now because I also felt they were 45 pounds of bomb proof transportation. I rode my varsity a long time in the late 60's and 70's -- I never knew what a better bike was like! It worked for me.

Keith, thanks for your response!
Wings (aka: Keith)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Varsity 24 inch tire size posted by Keith on 2/27/2002 at 5:40:49 PM
My pleasure Wings. You collect British Roadsters too, don't you? These thoughts have been evolving over the last year. To illustrate my point, here's an example of a nicer, Campy-equiped European lightweight on eBay (not mine), that's already met the reserve at $310, with 11 hours to go. I look at that bike, at that price, and then at the notion that some may be willing to pay $100s for Asian-made Schwinns, and I just can't figure it out. I guess your question brings up the issue: how do we value the basic electroforged Vassi-nentals (other than first year), and their mass produced lugged Asian cousins?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Varsity 24 inch tire size posted by Keith on 2/27/2002 at 6:28:03 PM
From a purely practical standpoint, a 24" could be worth LESS to collectors, as Schwinn Sting RayJr.s are worth less than the full-sized versions.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Varsity 24 inch tire size posted by Wings on 2/28/2002 at 9:20:16 AM
Good point on the 16 inch sting rays -- I have one. What do I collect. Well anything with pedals. I started looking for Schwinn Cruisers ten years ago and then because I fixed up bikes to give to a charity -- I really learned to appreciated Motobecanes as I worked on them and gave them a test ride. I am emotionally partial to Schwinn. I have never been the owner of a fine campy lightweight. I grew up on a wooden wheel Iver Johnson and a Black Phantom. As a kid I put sears rims and a gooseneck with risers on the Iver Johnson. Little did I know that I created a semi- cross bike and could beat any cruiser around! I ride Cross, mountain and recumbents as well as 3 speed folders. I just like bikes including BMX. I have sold one bike in ten years!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Varsity 24 inch tire size posted by Amy Beth on 3/3/2002 at 10:47:24 PM
Keith and Wings - I was so happy to see this string on the lightweight Schwinns with the 24"" tire size. I have been searching for years to replace my Schwinn Traveler II, 21" frame with 24" tires for years. It was stolen out of my backyard in the 80's and I still miss it, after all this time. I never, ever see them for sale. I do see Travelers, but they're always with 27" tires and they are never Traveler II models. I would be interested in hearing anything you might know about this bike and the years it was made. Any ideas on where I might find one? And if not, should I buy a 21" Traveler and replace the 27" tires with 24" ones? Any info is so appreciated. Thanks!

AGE / VALUE:   1950s raliegh posted by: aaron on 2/27/2002 at 12:19:58 AM
i got a 1950s raliegh sitting out side, i know its fifties because of the year on the three speed hub. the bike is faded red with no rust on it yet. there is no seat but has a red rear carrier. all of the bike is original. it is a smaller frame with a little curve. the bike is in oskosh wisconsin and the first $25 can haul it away. i also picked up a 1976 schwinn mens suburban maroon in color, a 5 speed bike, it is in excellent working condition, if anyone wants this, its $30. thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1950s raliegh posted by dave on 2/27/2002 at 11:23:20 PM
Aaron ... email me off-line. I'm interested.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1950s raliegh posted by aaron on 3/1/2002 at 1:11:07 AM
dave, what is your e- mail address? would you be interested in picking them up?
the raliegh is a 1959, i checked this cold after noon, chrome is all good but the rear fender is lacking the usual white on the end and the chain guard is white with , i think , raliegh on it. if you are in the area of oskosh wisconsin and can find high ave. just turn into the webster hall parking lot and on your left will be a pile of bikes chained to the bike rack as you circle the lot, you can check them out.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: 1950s raliegh posted by dave on 3/1/2002 at 2:54:11 PM
Aaron ... it's dsimmons@fammed.wisc.edu

I'm interested in the Raleigh. I'm in Madison but will be
in Oshkosh in the next week or two. Email me.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: 1950s raliegh posted by aaron on 3/5/2002 at 8:30:25 PM
i will try to e mail you if i have time, i will be in oshkosh until march 8th and will be back the 23rd, if you want to find my number im in webster hall, the phone numbers are listed in the doorway, im the only aaron. unfortunately i do not have email. thanks