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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Is this a Peugeot? posted by: mark on 5/21/2002 at 1:48:53 AM
I found this bike in a junkshop.It had no wheels, and the derallier had a stripped thread. The seat post (simplex) had been put together wrong, it took me a couple of tries to get it right. I've got it together now and ride it all the time, but I'm curious what it is. It's been painted, brown with black lugs, the paint is really hard ,it chips rather than scratching. I'll just rattle off the stats. Simplex dropout-mafac "racer"-nuovo record-lyotard pedals-stronglight-depose-regina-belleri(bars) can't find a number aqnywhere. anybody know?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a Peugeot? posted by smg on 5/21/2002 at 5:31:58 PM
I confess to liking bikes that have been partially rebuilt like this. They have an obvious past, about which it's fun to speculate--and since they're no longer "mint" you can either rework them yourself without guilt or contemplate a really major restoration.
Clues to identity: A French (or Italian) threaded bottom bracket (left cup right-handed) narrows things down to start with. No identification number may be another clue - supposedly the early Peugeots carried their serial number on a separate plate, which of course was immediately discarded by thieves.
Components can be easily changed, and are a matter of taste and fashion. Even when new, catalog specifications weren't always followed during the bike boom due to parts shortages. Frame components are pretty permanent, however. Do your Simplex dropouts include an integrally-forged derailleur-mounting boss? That would be a sign of a middle-grade or better frame, as might be noticeably lighter weight or tighter frame dimensions.
Idea: Can we come up with a tabulation of the frame dimensions that were typical of the known manufacturers in the various grades? That might help to bring some order out of the wonderful confusion of the bike-boom era.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a Peugeot? posted by smg on 5/21/2002 at 5:34:22 PM
Argh! I meant RIGHT cup right-handed!

AGE / VALUE:   PUCH / AD FRAME BUILD UP posted by: Kevin K on 5/20/2002 at 7:46:01 PM
Hi. Well I've decided to build up this AD/PUCH frame. It's just a bit large for me but the thing is in such good shape paint/decal wise I simply can't toss it. Over the weekend I located to bikes in the trash. A Raleigh Record with a real nice looking GB stem and bars and a German made bike I've never heard of. It had a nice BF stem and a nice set of AMBROSIA aluminum 27" wheels with those cool looking ( but probally mid range quality ) GNUTTI combo aluminum/steel high flange hubs. After a good polish they'll look new. I've a complete set of NOS Weinmann centerpulls, levers, cables and calipers so pretty much everything save for the shifters and derailleurs. EVERYTHING I have in that department is Japanese and I'd like to stick with something European and of 70's vintage to fit the look of the bike. So I need some ideas that will fit into an affordable build up. Campy would be nice but pricey. Same with Huret. The pieces I like are expensive also. Simplex? NA !!!!!!!!! So give me some ideas guys. I know there are pieces/groups out there I've not heard of that would look great yet be in my budget. Thanks much, Kevin K

     PUCH / AD FRAME BUILD UP posted by John E on 5/21/2002 at 1:37:12 AM
Austro-Daimler is an 80's marque, and plenty of them were sold with SunTour or Shimano gear. (I shamelessly, but very happily, run 1970s SunTour derailleurs on my 1959 Austrian bike.)

   RE:  PUCH / AD FRAME BUILD UP posted by Kevin K on 5/21/2002 at 11:42:13 AM
Hi John. All of my bikes use Sun Tour pieces on them. I thought on this one I would try something different. I've a rear Shimano that has a look that could pass for European, now all I need is a front derailleur. I'll use the Campy shifters I found and the Ofmega crankset also. Shouls look pretty period correct. Thanks, Kevin

AGE / VALUE:   CAMPY DOWNTUBE SHIFTERS posted by: Kevin K on 5/20/2002 at 7:39:47 PM
Hi. How does one go about telling the difference from which group that Campy shifters would be from ? Thank you, Kevin K

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   CAMPY DOWNTUBE SHIFTERS posted by Steven on 5/21/2002 at 3:56:37 AM
The friction tightening mechanism is the only difference that I know of. On the Record range, they used a hand tightening system with C-ring. On the Gran Sport, they used a screw tightening system requiring a screw driver.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   CAMPY DOWNTUBE SHIFTERS posted by Richard on 5/21/2002 at 5:45:42 AM
I have a set of Valentino dt levers from an Italvega of about 1970 vintage. The levers read "Patent Campagnolo Vicenza" like the Record levers, but have a cute knurled alloy adjuster knob instead of the chrome d-ring of the Record levers. --Richard

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   CAMPY DOWNTUBE SHIFTERS posted by Kevin K on 5/21/2002 at 11:37:31 AM
Hi Guys. So shifters are shifters. Cool. Thanks, Kevin

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   My weekend "Just for fun" project posted by: Gralyn on 5/20/2002 at 2:43:27 PM
I had picked up a Schwinn....something-or-other...back about a week ago. It has 1020 "x-tra lite" frame, 1979 from the stamped date code. The rims were warped beyond my capabilities. So, I had an idea for it: Since the paint was scratched really bad - I dis-assembled it completely, Painted it white. Took an old set of schwinn rims I had - painted them red. Put a little wider handlebar on it - with red tape. Put the knobby 27 X 1 1/4 tires which were on it when I got it, and set it up as a fixed gear. It has 52 teeth on the front and 18 on the rear. It looks really interesting. The frame is really too tall for me - so I will probably part with it eventually. Some things I ran into: The stem - the stem was really long-reach - and I wanted to put a shorter-reach stem on it - I even had some from some Schwinn parts bikes....but they wouldn't fit. Their diameter was too large for the fork. None of the stems I had would fit - so I had to put the long stem back on it. The saddle: the saddle looked really dirty. Not torn or anything...just really dirty. So, I cleaned it up - and to make it look newer - I put some armor-all type stuff on it....but it still looked like crap! What gives? Then I put some shoe polish on it....like I would do a leather saddle - and it came out looking great!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   My weekend posted by Oscar on 5/20/2002 at 3:22:58 PM
Only ride that bike with black pants. Any other color, and you will learn the nasty truth about shoe polish on vinyl. I've used armor all on vinyl seats with pretty good results.

I have a Le Tour that has the same steerer tube inner diameter, and the Schwinn stem was too extended for comfort. Fortunately, I was able to swap forks with a Raleigh before the repaint, so I could use about any stem I wanted.

I've found a slightly smaller frame is good for a fixed gear since it allows you to "reach over" and use all angles of the bike that need. The Le Tour also has a high bottom bracket which is nice if you want to avoid pedal strike.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   My weekend posted by Gralyn on 5/20/2002 at 4:57:19 PM
Yes, the frame is way too big for me - especially for fixed-gear. I normally ride 23" frames and for fixed-gear - ride 21" frames. I may end up selling it to a taller person. I could still swap forks and use one of the shorter-reach stems.....no, I can't - I don't have another 25" frame.

AGE / VALUE:   Huret equipped "Tour de France" posted by: Elvis on 5/20/2002 at 4:26:32 AM
I picked this up last night. Looks to be from the mid 1950's as it has the same Avlitt duerailuer as my Rudge road bike, but I'm not sure.
It's marked "Tour de France" across the top tube. Gold frame with white head tube; no head badge, but winged "M" [could this be an old Motobecane?]cut into the fork crowns [the end of the fork has a very pronounced curve] Both front and rear wheels secured by Wingnuts marked "Huret cycle". Weinmann centurpulls marked "610" and downtube shifters that seem nearly half an inch longer than normal. Any idea how old this bike is? -- it's got thin, grooved cottered cranks -- and, where it fits in amongst the bike spectrum? Thanks for any input.

   I FORGOT! one more thing about the Old "Tour de france" road bike posted by Elvis on 5/20/2002 at 4:44:18 AM
I forgot! The cranks on this bike are marked "NERVAR" and the handlebar stem "PIVO". The handlebars, incidentally, are fairly narrow, much marrower than newer bikes, such as a 1980's Motobecane I have...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Huret equipped posted by Warren on 5/20/2002 at 2:19:23 PM
This sounds like a nice bike. It could also be a Schroder...a German bike than looked very Italian (Pivo, Nervar) and it also had an M on the fork crown and I believe the seatstay caps had them as well. Of course it could be an early Motobecane as well, which is just fine...

I'm not sure you can judge the age by the Alvitt derailler...I believe they were available right through the 60's...maybe even 70's. Huret wingnuts were pretty standard equipment on late 60's boom bikes. What kind of hubs, rims, cogset etc.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   more components... posted by Elvis on 5/20/2002 at 4:27:09 PM
Thanks! The rims need cleaning [the bike looks like it sat for a while, no real rust, but lotsa pitting], but some fine steel wool on the front and I could see it marked "RIGIDA". The really really worn leather seat is marked "ECCO 105" on each side. That's about all I could see in the way of markings...

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   more components... posted by Steven on 5/20/2002 at 6:13:18 PM
Does the derailleur have the Allvit name engraved (pre-1969) or does it have a sticker or silk screening (post-1969)? The M logo could also be for Mercier.

   RE:AGE :   Tour de france more components...ALLVIT posted by Elvis on 5/20/2002 at 8:43:23 PM
Hi! Thanks... no, the word "Allvit" is cut into the metal of the dureiluer one a crosshatched background with a little tiny star underneath. Oh, and the wingnuts aren't marked "HURET CYCLE" -- I goofed! The funky writing actually says "Hhuret luxe"...

AGE / VALUE:   Porsche bike posted by: Steven on 5/20/2002 at 1:24:52 AM
The Porsche bike discussed in a thread below sold for just over $1000 and attracted 61 bids!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Porsche bike posted by Maurice on 5/20/2002 at 4:35:39 AM
The components must really be top drawer - it has a very utilitarian look..........

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Porsche bike posted by Steven on 5/20/2002 at 12:07:38 PM
The components are not bad but the real reason for the price is the Porsche name. This is good for us collectors as it means the posers will buy these instead of knocking up the prices on the 'real' collectable bikes.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Porsche bike posted by Kevin K on 5/20/2002 at 2:16:17 PM
AMEN TO THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AGE / VALUE:   Two Commuter Bicycles For Sale posted by: Paul on 5/19/2002 at 10:19:17 PM
Two Bicycles for Sale: Good commuters both 21 inch with 27 by 1 and 1/4 clinchers, first Ross Super Grand Tour, 1020 steel frame, blue, Shimano 600 group throughout, neoprene hoods, drilled levers Araya rims.....plus red Fuji Sagres Valite 1769 Quad butted frame,(upright seating) Suntour/ Diacompe/ Sugino, Pletcher rack, upright handle bars Ukai rims, tiny fenders, (drop bars and levers included in sale)...both bicycles for $100 you pick-up, I'm in southeastern MA Thanks, Paul (PS e-mail for photograph)

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by: Brad K Wood on 5/19/2002 at 8:43:11 AM
I am an original owner of a late 60s Peugeot...10 speed...originally outfitted with sew-ups...I just brought it down off the wall the other day and I've spent probably a week detailing it... I need to replace/repair? my front derailur... any help/suggestions? Simplex! The plastic molded section has broken! Already tried gluing.

Thanks for any comeback.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Gralyn on 5/19/2002 at 2:15:40 PM
You shouldn't have any problem finding the front deur. with the plastic. I believe it was an abundant part.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Oscar on 5/20/2002 at 6:23:54 PM
Brad - guess what I found in parts box no. 4. Email me if you want a pretty nice Simplex front der. (plastic) with my complements.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Jonathan on 5/21/2002 at 4:35:46 AM
Hello, Brad. I have great success with Suntour cyclone rear derailer on my venerable UO-8 that shifts like a dream compared to the worn down Simplex "prestige" that was OE.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Brad on 5/21/2002 at 8:01:23 AM
I agree that there are probably better derailleurs than my old Simplex(s) but I've always been a bit of a stickler for "Original Equipment"...should I let go of that? (although I Did get rid of my sew-ups back in '88!)

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Jonathan on 5/21/2002 at 6:05:51 PM
Ooops! FRONT derailer. Hello, Brad. NOS is the way to go. I have a Simplex plastic front derailer on a Maino 10 speed bred for "club" road racing I suspect. It has a Simplex "prestige" rear that is remarkably durable. It has a little more "give" to it than the "cyclone", but you get used to that feature. If you grew up with the friction-type mechanism, there is no problem. I've put a lot of miles going hard and fast on the Maino with some horrendous shifts that made me have to look back to see if the derailer was still attched to the stays, and ...no problem. The plastic is kind of cool for that era. I've snapped a front "yolk" of a Simplex shifter while trying to fasten it to a downtube that was smaller diameter....shims anyone? Well, that was dumb. I dig the plastic covered shifters that are super light. The plastic on the derailers seems like "bakelite" high impact stuff.

   CORRECTION:   Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Jonathan on 5/21/2002 at 6:24:28 PM
It was the seat tube that was too big for the yolk such that the inside radius of the front half of the yolk was smaller than the radius of the seat tube, so all the force of tightening was directed at one point. There is nothing to do for that problem. The otherway around and you can shim it with rubber or flexible plastic material.

AGE / VALUE:   Tandem for sale posted by: Steven on 5/18/2002 at 4:08:24 PM
there is a reasonably nice tandem for sale on e-bay, less than 4 hours to go and still under $400. When a Schwinn Twinn with no redeeming features goes for a similar price, this bike is sure to be a good deal for anybody wanting a small framed tandem.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tandem for sale posted by Steven on 5/18/2002 at 4:13:03 PM
This is the Schwinn Twinn selling at a similar price.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1966 PX 10 posted by Maurice on 5/18/2002 at 7:39:53 PM
Steven what are your thoughts on the 1966 PX 10 Special Edition on eBay?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1966 PX 10 posted by Steven on 5/18/2002 at 9:10:31 PM

I'm not the best qualified about Peugeot bikes. Apart from my very first multi-speed bike, I have never owned one. There is however a great site to consult: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/PX-10.htm
It is unlikely that anything in the Yukon has been used all that much as there aren't many suitable roads to ride on up there. It is therefore quite likely well maintained. I don't believe this to be a 'special edition' but rather a reevocative model to celebrate the successes reached in 1966. It is therefore more likely to be a 1967 or 1968. I've seen some much nicer bikes sell for less than the $1000 starting price, but that does not mean that this could not be a great deal. Maybe somebody else who knows Peugeots better will comment.

     1966 PX 10 posted by John E on 5/18/2002 at 11:07:56 PM
Since I do not believe this one is anything special, the starting price seems a bit stiff to me. However, let's not forget the $7100 sale of a much rarer PX-10 a few months ago to a Japanese collector. (I still haven't gotten over that sticker shock!)

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gum Hoods posted by: Colin Barratt on 5/18/2002 at 10:55:02 AM
Here's a handy tip !! If your lever hoods are gum rubber they may be getting a bit dry and difficult to slide over the levers. Try spraying silicone containing furniture polish onto the lever bosses first. This will have two effects; firstly it will act as a lubricant and make the hoods easier to fit and secondly the silicones in the polish will help to soften and condition the rubber. After a short while any excess fluid evaporates or is absorbed into the hoods and you wouldn't know it had even been there. Best wishes, Colin.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   reversed BB! posted by: John E on 5/17/2002 at 3:40:37 PM
On Saturday, I had the privilege of viewing Jimmy Thomson's collection of 24 Hetchins bicycles and enjoying his wife's Scottish shortcake and the camaraderie of a dozen other fans of vintage bicycles. One late 1960s frame may be even more collectible than Jimmy realized -- the bottom bracket was apparently threaded backward, and the bike was assembled with the LH-threaded fixed cup on the left side and the RH-threaded adjustable cup on the drive side. That's a new one on me -- a self-loosening English BB!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   reversed BB! posted by smg on 5/17/2002 at 4:29:50 PM
About 25 years ago, I was putting together a bike on a scrounged Gitane frame - French threads, of course - and in a moment of absence-of-mind installed the bottom bracket backwards. Worked just fine, and would allow great flexibility in adjusting the chain line -- but everyone who noticed it was completely scandalized. . .!

   dual adjustable cups posted by John E on 5/17/2002 at 7:31:40 PM
Putting adjustable cups and lockrings on both sides of an Italian or French BB is a time-honored chainline-tuning technique not available on bikes with English or Swiss threading.

The other interesting aspect of the reverse-BB Hetchins frame is that the left side of the BB shell was very poorly faced, resulting in a partial gap between the fixed cup and the shell. (Either that, or the BB shell actually was originally correctly threaded, and someone cross-threaded the cups into the wrong sides.) Weird!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   reversed BB! posted by Hallyx on 5/18/2002 at 6:35:48 AM
Wait. Wait....Wait!!!

Didn't we go through the logic of thread direction just a few weeks ago? I thought I understood it, back then --- Pedals: right side/right thread --- BB: right side/ left thread --- prevents the threads from loosening due to the epicyclic forces applied by the bearings as they roll. I believe it was John E, himself, who provided that comprehensive and lucid explanation.

How can a BB possibly be installed backwards (and/or cross-threaded) and still function? Who's got a big enough pin wrench and a strong enough arm to even do that?

Hallyx (confused again --- even more)

   reversed BB! posted by John E on 5/18/2002 at 7:58:27 PM
It's a mystery to me, as well, Hallyx. Here was an otherwise normal-looking older Hetchins with the adjustable cup clearly on the drive side and 1.37x24 (English) stamped into the fixed cup, which was on the left side. A bottom bracket in this configuration would indeed be self-loosening, but then so is the fixed cup in the Italian and French systems.

Without dissecting one of our host's prized bikes in front of him and his gracious wife, I could only surmise that either the BB was misthreaded or that someone had forced the cups into the wrong sides, effectively cross-threading them into the shell. (A friend once made a crossover drive tandem crankset from three regular Sugino sets, by cross-threading LH pedals into two of the drive cranks and a RH pedal into one of the nondrive cranks. In a steel-versus-aluminum contest, the steel member rethreads the aluminum member.)

AGE / VALUE:   Changing 120 to 126 posted by: Mike Slater on 5/17/2002 at 3:42:50 PM
Is it possible to change a hub that is set up for 120mm spacing to 126mm with a simple axle change plus spacers? Any problems that I might encounter?
Anyone done this?

   redish posted by John E on 5/17/2002 at 3:49:00 PM
It works fine, Mike, but of course you have to increase the wheel dish by 3mm, assuming that you are adding all 6mm to the drive side to accommodate a 6- or 7-speed freewheel instead of a 5-speed or ultra-6.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tres cool Bates frame on ebay posted by: David on 5/17/2002 at 10:59:32 AM
NMA - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2103394911

      Tres cool Bates frame on ebay posted by John E on 5/17/2002 at 3:53:21 PM
Thanks for posting! This should be a nice test of the value of a well-refinished frame. So far, no bids at $600; I'll be watching.

   Judging value on ebay posted by Ray on 5/17/2002 at 5:33:35 PM
It is difficult to judge value on ebay and here is why. This frame is using an opening bid of $600 and many folks are reluctant to open a bid that high. From experience I can tell you that I have had auctions where I had an opening bid of $250 and received no bids. I then took the same exact auction on the same location and put it up for starting bid of $9.99 with a $250 reserve and nearly hit $400 for it. It is the psychology of bidding that is being tested here and not the value of the bike.

   RE:Judging value on ebay posted by Kevin K on 5/19/2002 at 1:34:40 PM
Hi.I agree with Ray. For those that have attended live auctions it's well understood that the auctioneer will drop down to $1 for opening bids only to climb back even past his opening bid. It's an auction and people want to decide what they will pay for an item, not the seller. My 2 cents. Kevin K

MISC:   Two nice saddles... posted by: Warren on 5/17/2002 at 3:37:20 AM
I stuffed myself through a crack in the rows of tightly woven bikes to get a glimpse of the "stuff" I could see tucked into some old dustly shelves hidden in the gloomy depths. I reached through on my toes and yanked out two leather racing saddles...one is a Brooks B15 Swallow and the other is a Middlemore "Swallow", heavier but more robust and of equal or even better quality. The shop owner continues to deny me access to the back of the shop but he did give me the pair for a C-note, no tax. Make my day!

AGE / VALUE:   Will it break and kill me? posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/16/2002 at 11:20:16 PM
I took off the 27 inch wheels that came with this Raleigh Super Course mark 3 and put in American Schwinn 26 X 1.75 wheels and tires. The rear is a three speed and the front is a plain hub.
Question: Will this crazy project lead to me breaking the fork on the front?
There is enough clearence, but this fork was not intended for these size wheels.

Im looking forward to riding it and seeing how it rides and handles.

   It may "brake" you! posted by John E on 5/17/2002 at 3:40:31 PM
I would be very concerned about braking effectiveness. Would braze-on cantilever bosses be an option for you?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Will it break and kill me? posted by Chris on 5/17/2002 at 5:56:06 PM
Thanks for the input. good points! I will return it to 27 inch wheels.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Will it break and kill me? posted by Stacey on 5/17/2002 at 1:07:09 AM
Changing the wheel size alone SHOULD NOT cause any undue stress on the frame that would cause breakage. Now, if you were to go doubling the whoops or do some half pipe work with it... well then all bets are off. LOL

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Will it break and kill me? posted by Steven on 5/17/2002 at 1:53:18 AM
The biggest risks are actually the change in the bottom bracket clearance and the change in braking stresses of the rear end. Are you going with a coaster? If so, you will be putting more stress on the stays than the frame was perhaps intended to accept. If you are keeping the caliper brakes, your braking will deteriorate as the distance between the brake pads and the caliper pivot will increase. An advised and alert rider will however be able to overcome all of these possible problems without any problems.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Will it break and kill me? posted by Oscar on 5/17/2002 at 4:01:30 AM
What kind of brake reach would you have? Best bet would be BMX 1080 sidepulls. Fun project.