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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:†††Paramounts for sale posted by: Steven on 5/23/2002 at 4:51:20 AM
I found this on the campy only site and thought that it could interest somebody here:

I am selling my collection of paramounts full campy NR equipment. Years ranging from 1958 to 1989. Mostly in the 1970's. 16 paramounts in all including three track bikes and two 50th anniversary bikes with 50th anniversary campy groupo. All bikes are 58cm center to top except on which is a 57cm. Also have a curved seat tube paramount tandem with all original equipment except the wheels and a 50th paramount frame NOS. call me at 860 651 3846 or contact me at bnfrankel@snet.net for questions and prices.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Paramounts for sale posted by Keith on 5/23/2002 at 12:54:05 PM
Drool . . . . Someone get a bucket for me, please!

   †††Paramounts for sale posted by John E on 5/23/2002 at 1:57:39 PM
Too bad I ride 55cm C-T ...

AGE / VALUE:†††rowel deluxe posted by: wes on 5/23/2002 at 3:40:33 AM
ive a Rowel DeLuxe 3 spd ladies has front and rear carriers
enclosed chainguard chrome fenders a good rideing bike does anyone know anything about these bikesor how can one find its age
thanks wes

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Panasonic DX-3000 #6G07290 posted by: darryl on 5/23/2002 at 1:52:22 AM
I recently acquired a Panasonic DX-3000 12 sp road bike. Equipped as follows:

Tange 900 DB CR-MO tubing
Mangaloy 2001 Tange fork
Shimano Light Action derailleurs
Sakae SX cranks
Sansin hubs
Ukai 700x25 rims
Shimano S424 DT shift levers
Shimano 600 aero brake levers
Shimano Z57 sidepull brakes
Sakae Custom Road Champion H-bars

I can't find any seams on the Ukai rims, is this possible? I also need to find brake lever hoods(black) at a reasonable price, any ideas? Not sure which ones offered by Third Hand would fit. Once restored, what's a bike like this worth? Thanks, Darryl

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Panasonic DX-3000 #6G07290 posted by Steven on 5/24/2002 at 1:36:23 PM
The rim seam will normally be opposite the valve hole and it is not currently possible to make steeel or alloy rims without any seams. I believe carbon is the only rim that can be without seams. The seam is usually found under the rim label.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Lotus Touring posted by: Clint Henrie on 5/22/2002 at 6:12:58 PM
I have a Old Lotus Touring bike. It seems to be quite lighweight, and in pretty good condition. The components are suntour Cyclone derailleurs, Shimano 600 brakes and Calipers, Seguino Crank. The frame says Suntour GS on the drops. Can anyone give me any information, or let me know what I have. I buy older bikes, and fix them up for to give to less fortunate kids and adults who really want to take up the sport. What would you give for a bike like this? Thanks a bunch.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Lotus Touring posted by Keith on 5/22/2002 at 9:27:53 PM
Lotus was a U.S. designed, Japanese made line of bicycles in the 80s, not to be confused with Mike Burrows' record-breaking Lotus that I believe was associated with the Brit motor car company. I have a Lotus Competition, c. 1983, that's a very Italian wannabe made in Japan -- Columbus tubing, Crhome pantographed lugs and fork crown, fairly aggressive geometry, full Campagnolo Nouvo/Super Record. Finish and brazing as clean as I've seen. But likely worth less than half of a comparable European bike of the same date simply because it's Japanese. Buit maybe that will change? The Shimano 600s of that era were realy nice -- esp. if they're before they started painting stuff -- yuk. Cyclone is also above average though not absolutely top-end. If the frame is sound and straight, and there's lots of life in the components, my shot in the dark is about $100. That's to soemone who would appreciate it -- eBay bargain hunters may only go $50 or so.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Schwinn World Voyageur posted by: Judd on 5/22/2002 at 2:06:04 PM
I recently bought a great frame, a "Schwinn World Voyageur". I have been unable to find anything about the model. I appeal to the Schwinnphiles for knowledge: what was the MSRP? tubing? original group?any help on finding pertinent catalogues? any help at all?
Thank You

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Schwinn World Voyageur posted by Eric Amlie on 5/22/2002 at 4:00:43 PM
Is this the bike you are inquiring about?


   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Schwinn World Voyageur posted by Judd on 5/22/2002 at 4:22:32 PM
I'm sorry neither address is coming up

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Schwinn World Voyageur posted by Judd on 5/22/2002 at 4:46:18 PM
I just got it and yes that is the frame and thank you very much

   RE:Schwinn World Voyageur posted by Eric Amlie on 5/22/2002 at 4:50:06 PM
A little more info for you:

10 speed. Built for Schwinn by Panasonic. 4130 chrome-moly steel frame tubing. Chrome plated head lugs, fork crown and front and rear fork ends. Schwinn Approved (Sun Tour power rachet) fingertip shifters. Diacompe center-pull brakes with dual-position quick release levers. Quick-release high flange aluminum hubs (Shimano) and alloy rims. Shimano "Dura-Ace" three piece cotterless aluminum crank set. Steel rattrap KKT pedals. Shimano "Crane GS" (sometimes known as a Schwinn-Approved GT-300 Le Tour) wide range derailleur and "Titlist" front changer. Seamless, leather covered nylon saddle (Unica-Nitor) -- sometimes Brooks B-15 leather saddle. SR two-bolt seat post. Diacompe stem, unmarked randonneur bars. Tange headset. Schwinn Approved "Le Tour" high-pressure tires. Round "World" head badge. Colors were Opaque Blue, Kool Orange, and Kool Lemon. Frame sizes 21", 23". Net weight 27.5 lbs (21"), 28 lbs (23"). Shipping weight 38 lbs. and 39 lbs. $275.00.

   Schwinn World Voyageur posted by Eric Amlie on 5/22/2002 at 4:56:22 PM
Something else I forgot to mention. As far as I know this and it's lesser sibling the World Traveler were 1973 only bikes. They were Schwinn's first Asian imports. The World Voyageur became the Schwinn Voyageur II in mid 1974. The World Traveler didn't really have a direct crossover but seems that it was improved in several ways to become the 1974 Schwinn LeTour.

   RE:Schwinn World Voyageur posted by Judd on 5/22/2002 at 5:10:24 PM
thank you for all the information there is nothing better than knowing what you are riding. BTW this will be a fixie rebuild with SunTour parts

AGE / VALUE:†††The Hercules came today! posted by: Gralyn on 5/22/2002 at 2:44:35 AM
My Hercules came today....the one I bought off e-bay. It's not a Hercules/Raleigh/AMF - so I will assume it pre-dates when Hercules was taken over by Raleigh and distributed by AMF, etc. It has Sturmey-Archer 26 X 1 3/8" wheels - 5-speed cassette. The rear wheel has a built-in to the hub spacer - like the spokes are centered on the hub - and there is a spacer on one side - and the 5-speed cassette on the other. Another unusual item is the front chainwheel. I have never seen one like it: the smaller ring is riveted to the larger - but it's not like your normal # of teeth. On this one, the smaller ring is only very slightly smaller - just a small step down from the larger ring. I'm thinking....what's the use in that? Has anyone ever seen such? Or could this be some kind of homemade job? There is just barely clearance for the smaller ring...almost none!
Another note: My other Hercules is an AMF/Hercules - but has brass headbadge. This one is just Hercules - and has aluminum-looking headbadge.

   half-step gearing posted by John E on 5/22/2002 at 1:31:21 PM
Welcome to the wonderful world of half-step gearing, which some of us retrogrouches still prefer over the currently fashionable crossover gearing. You probably have something like a 49-46 combination in front, with perhaps 14-16-18-20-23 or ...-21-24 in back, which yields 10 nicely-spaced ratios. Whenever you want a ratio between those of two adjacent rear cogs, you shift the front.

Mechanically, this system is vastly superior to all others, because it places minimal demands on the most primitive part of the transmission, the front derailleur, and also minimizes chain wrapup demands on the rear cage. Mathematically, a half-step system provides the smoothest ratio development pattern, because half of its ratio changes are identical.

I do detest your chainring rivets, however. Though arguably more reliable than bolts, they preclude swapping chainrings and taking advantage of half-step's other slick trick, instant conversion to 1.5-step for hilly rides. For years, I ran a 50-47 / 14-16-18-20-23 on flat rides, changing in 5 minutes to a 50-42 for hills.

One of my all-time favourite commuter/beater bikes was a Hercules with a standard wide-range Sturmey 3-speed hub and a 14-16-18-20 cyclo hybrid conversion cogset, giving me 12 ratios from 40 to 100 gear-inches. The frame weighed a ton, but it was practically indestructible.

   RE:half-step gearing posted by Gralyn on 5/22/2002 at 3:06:39 PM
Thanks for the information! I'm always learing something new! I had no idea about the 1/2 step thing. I had my doubts about it being a homemade job - because of the quality of the rivet job. I will try to get it all working properly now. I will probably completely dis-assemble the bike, clean and polish, (The paint has quite a few scratches - but I'm not going to re-paint - I will clean it, polish and wax it to make it look better) I will get the gearing working smoothly. I already had a new set of tires I can put on it.

One thing is the brake levers. I think they may be original - but they look more like the ones that come on touring bars rather than racing bars - which it has - although they do have somewhat of a curve to the lever....but it's nothing like most of your common racing bar brake levers. If this bike was originally 10-speed, 1/2 step gearing - would it have come with racing bars? Or would it have had touring bars? There may be some catalog info out there somewhere....from back in the 50's and 60's maybe? Do you think this bike would date to the 50's or 60's - or would it have been maybe 70's?

   brake levers posted by John E on 5/22/2002 at 7:23:38 PM
Even into the 1960s, some drop-handlebar bikes came with the brake levers your describe, rather than the familiar modern "hooded," made-for-drops style. This was particularly true of bikes with low-end steel sidepull brakes, as Weinmann, Mafac, and Universal were already providing nice hooded levers with their centerpulls. It was one of this rush-to-market things to ride the newly-emerging "10-speed" wave with whatever parts inventory one had.

AGE / VALUE:†††holland posted by: rickey on 5/21/2002 at 11:39:20 PM
just acquired a 26" bike from holland it's a EMINENT it's brown and has rear rack & generator on the front. fully covered chainguard light rust any info would be appreciated it' for sale make offer rides realy nice

AGE / VALUE:†††Help - Why the Wobble? posted by: Tim on 5/21/2002 at 11:17:02 PM
Hey there. For a care-free city commuter, I have built up an early 80's Norco road bike (Mangaloy, Nakamura-built). Not a collector bike, but decent and not theft-worthy. The orig fork was missing, so a I found another which made the bike very twitchy, but ridable. Problem is that lately the frame has started a harmonic wobble in the front-end when I take my hands off the bars. I have rebuilt the front hub with no improvement (the 27" wheels are true), so I assumed the fork was a bad match with the frame. But now I have installed a much more relaxed geometry fork, and the same problem exists! Could something else be wrong with the wheel or tire? Or, could there be some problem with the frame? Why the wobble? It's really bad, the whole bike flexes around. Thanks for any thoughts.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Help - Why the Wobble? posted by Steven on 5/21/2002 at 11:29:34 PM
Do you have reflectors in the wheels? Is your valve properly centred? Either thing could cause this to happen. How about alignment of the frame?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Help - Why the Wobble? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/22/2002 at 12:33:41 AM
You should take it into the shop and have them look at it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Help - Why the Wobble? posted by Wings on 5/22/2002 at 6:03:43 AM
If you have sealant in the tire tubes and/or a tuffy strip inside the tire -- these can also cause this to happen (not always!).

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Help - Why the Wobble? posted by Stacey on 5/22/2002 at 11:21:39 AM
How are your head bearings, clean, lubed, well adjusted, and not worn? Here's another place to look.

    Wobble posted by John E on 5/22/2002 at 1:41:28 PM
Harmonic wobble, the bane of many bicycles, tends to be a bit more common on larger frames and on lighter-weight frames. My whippy 1959 road bike tends to wobble if my REAR spokes get even slightly loose, or if I overload the rear rack. Planting a knee solidly against the top tube quickly brings it back under control.

In the early 1970s, Nishiki changed from a butted to a straight-gauge seat tube on its 25" Competitions, because of customer complaints about wobble. This evidently shifted the resonant frequency by increasing the spring constant.

   RE: Wobble posted by Tim on 5/22/2002 at 4:27:33 PM
Thanks for all the responses. It's not the headset (just rebuilt), nor do I have a 'tuffy' in the tire. I'll check the wheels over for centring and tire / tube mounting, and for spokes being lose. Otherwise, I think I will take it to a shop to get assessed.

   wheel tracking posted by John E on 5/22/2002 at 7:32:12 PM
One more thought: If you ride in a straight line after riding through a puddle, do your tyres make one narrow track or a wide track, or even two separate tracks? If the rear wheel is off-dish or even simply off-center in the dropouts (or the front fork or rear triangle is misaligned -- very common!), you are generating a steering torque as you ride, and at a critical speed, this can cause wobble, as well.

   RE:RE: Wobble posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/22/2002 at 11:34:28 PM
Maybe it's not the bike, but you!
Hee- Hee!

   RE:RE:RE: Wobble posted by Tim on 5/23/2002 at 8:09:01 PM
I've often been told I'm unbalanced, but I didn't think that had anything to do with my bike riding skills :o)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Help - Why the Wobble? posted by Jonathan on 5/25/2002 at 4:46:48 AM
Do you know what caused the forks to be separated from the bike? Maybe the previous owner had the same problem and decided that the forks were OK, but the frame was defective. Overloading a light bike can cause a lot of whip in the frame that can cause wobble, according to one of my books on bicycles. I've noticed some strange motion in the frame of bikes that I've overloaded.
If the forks have been changed out and the wobble is still there, I would junk the frame. Why risk a crash, when frames are cheap?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Tiny Vintage Lightweight posted by: Keith on 5/21/2002 at 8:28:12 PM
No relation to seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1829973994 Check the frame geometry -- unless it's the camera angle, the head angle seems impossibly steep. Fun 24" tubies. Lots of fun for your 8-10 year old, provided the apparent steep angle doesn't make it virtually unrideable.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Tiny Vintage Lightweight posted by Steven on 5/22/2002 at 12:19:04 AM
This is a slightly larger version of the bike that was discussed a few weeks back. This one has far too long cranks however, which necessitates an overhigh b/b and the aforementioned strange head angle. It will be rideable given the generous rake but very hard to get off line (perhaps a plus for a small bike, likely intended to children!) The rear Ofmega derailleur is my favourite of all time for looks. It is made of plastic (Rilsan) and works as well as any campagnolo prior to 1980. The CLB brakeset have the shortest reach levers on the market. The TA chainset was probably chosen as it gave the best options for a small larger chainring. All in all quite nice and as mentioned a few weeks ago, will maintain its value regardless. If you have child that it fits, I figure it is quite a good buy.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Super Sport posted by: Keith on 5/21/2002 at 6:06:54 PM
No relation to seller -- recycledcycles.net -- but since some of you are interested in the old Schwinn lightweights, he's got a Super Sport w/TA cranks, Campy Gran Turismo rear d, Normandy Luxe hubs, for $135. He guesses at late 1960s - early 70s -- I have no idea on that, or whether it was ever spec'd with Campy Gran Turismo (Paramount P-15 was for a couple of years).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††Super Sport posted by Eric Amlie on 5/21/2002 at 9:14:26 PM
Thats a Sports Tourer. Same basic frame as the early Super Sports (except for the addition of a kickstand) but has the smaller crank hanger for a cotterless crankset. First year for these was 1971. Super Sport was cheapened up a bit in 1971 with the plain stamped rear dropouts replacing the previous forged Hurets. The Sports Tourer got the Huret dropouts so this bike was positioned between the Super Sport and the Paramounts.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††More Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by: Brad on 5/21/2002 at 8:05:22 AM
Quite some time ago my wife and I were inquiring about decals for our old PX-10s (before the days of the internet) because I wanted to totally restore them to like-new condition...starting with a new paint job. But we were told way back then that decal sets were unavailable for the simple reason to avoid counterfeits...Can anyone verify the validity of this unattainability?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††More Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Tom Findley on 5/21/2002 at 11:37:27 AM
You can have new decals made by Cycleart or Pfeiffer Pframes. Peugeot is not going to pay an attorney $250 an hour to sue you or them for trademark infringement for making 2 sets of decals.

If you have 100 sets made and try selling them, they may send you a "Cease and Desist" letter.

The cost of the decals is high, though. Expect to pay $150+ to have them made. The bikes should be worth more than that to make it worthwhile.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††More Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Steven on 5/21/2002 at 12:48:03 PM
Tom is correct, however most manufacturers can supply owners of their bikes with the decals at least for a few years after their use. There used to be a time when Columbus and Reynolds used to supply their authorized agents to respectively apply 'riverniciato' or 'repaint' tubing stickers too. Back in the 70's, to have one of these stickers on a frame was perhaps even more proof of authenticity than the real thing as they were not given out readily and the agent had to maintain a log of where they were used.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:†††More Why Do I Love My Peugeot? posted by Hallyx on 5/23/2002 at 8:20:11 AM
Wow, thanks, Steven. I was wondering what the "Repaint" (on a lurid turquoise diagonal slash) was doing on the Reynolds decal of my #2 Dawes.

I'm trying to find a way to print waterslide decals on my laser printer.....Watch this space.


AGE / VALUE:†††CORTINA- ROMANA posted by: FReeeSPiRiT on 5/21/2002 at 5:42:44 AM
Picked up two low end Italian bikes at garage sales with interesting compnents. The Romana has Gian Robert derailers and shiters and the Cortina has Campy Valentino. Both have universal centerpull brakes and TTT stems. One has Italia hubs and the other Gnutti's. They have interesting lugwork but stamped steel dropouts. One has a crank with only one cotter pin on the left side? Has any one heard of these bikes.

AGE / VALUE:†††Carlton posted by: Elvis on 5/21/2002 at 5:15:16 AM
Hi all! I just wanted to say the crowd at this site is very helpful. I also have another bike question.
Last night when I picked up the old "tour de france" mystery bike, I also picked up an Carlton. The bike has no wheels and looks crappy, but the components seem good. It's got click downtube shifters marked "Suntour power" and the hell of it is, the clamp says "Raleigh." Any idea here? Was Carlton, like so many other companies, an arm of Raleigh? I never heard of the brand before, and though the bike is sorta an inch too big, I'd take the time to fix it if it was a decent make. Any info? The cranks [marked "biopace"?] look brand new as do the chainrings, and the rear dureailuer is marked Suntour cyclone, but looks nothing like the cyclone I took off another bike recently...

AGE / VALUE:†††Carlton posted by: Elvis on 5/21/2002 at 5:15:16 AM
Hi all! I just wanted to say the crowd at this site is very helpful. I also have another bike question.
Last night when I picked up the old "tour de france" mystery bike, I also picked up an Carlton. The bike has no wheels and looks crappy, but the components seem good. It's got click downtube shifters marked "Suntour power" and the hell of it is, the clamp says "Raleigh." Any idea here? Was Carlton, like so many other companies, an arm of Raleigh? I never heard of the brand before, and though the bike is sorta an inch too big, I'd take the time to fix it if it was a decent make. Any info? The cranks [marked "biopace"?] look brand new as do the chainrings, and the rear dureailuer is marked Suntour cyclone, but looks nothing like the cyclone I took off another bike recently...

   †††Carlton posted by John E on 5/21/2002 at 2:02:24 PM
Yes, Raleigh did assimilate Carlton (mid-1960s? -- help me here, British bicycle historians!). The higher-end Carltons are VERY nice bikes.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Carlton posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/21/2002 at 2:06:07 PM
Carlton was absorbed by Raleigh at one point. Carlton was known for wonderful chrome plating and fine paint finishes. Later on Raleigh has Sun Tour and others stamp the word Raleigh on brackets and such.
Biopace chainring was added later on by somebody and consider it a stroke of good fortune.

   Biopace Chainring posted by Steven on 5/21/2002 at 4:25:12 PM
When they first appeared on the market, I despised and completely dissed Bio-pace chainrings as they always threw off my ability to spin. Back then, in the 70-80's I used to happily spin away at 110-125 all day long. Now that the knees are not what they were (arthritis), I would like to see whether they were really that bad or whether it was simply my riding style that made them inappropriate. Anny other experience with Bio Pace?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Carlton posted by Keith on 5/21/2002 at 6:33:43 PM
I think Biopace is a perfect example of marketing hype that did not deliver the goods - i.e. -- it's use did not give rise to faster TTs. Think of that the next time you're tempted to buy the latest bike craze widget. I rode with a late-ish version ('87) for a couple of years, including on a 12 mile climb up Mt. Lemon in Tucson AZ, and at least one sub-5 hr century. I didn't like it, but it didn't bother me much either. As I recall, the original Biopace was more eliptical, and later versions, redesigned, were rounder. A couch once explained that it didn't work because your muscles aren't adapted to the kind of change in speed of rotation that Biopace entails -- you decide what he meant and if he's right. Sheldon Brown still like them, at least for climbing, FWIW. In the mid- to late-70s, Raleigh had Suntour parts that were Raleigh branded. I briefly owned a Raleigh Gran Prix like that.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Carlton posted by Steven on 5/21/2002 at 8:17:28 PM
My initial point was that I believe it works well for the inexperienced cyclist that makes two strokes per revolution of the pedals instead of the continuous circles drawn by most better cyclists. This would also correspond to hill climbing too.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Carlton posted by Keith on 5/21/2002 at 8:44:01 PM
Two cycling friends have told me of an article warning that biopace is bad for knees. I never found the article. I too ride at lower rpms then before, for the same reason you state, and the additiobnal reason that the extra lift that you get at lower rpms (70 or so) seems to reduce pressure on the prostate.

AGE / VALUE:†††Dawes 10 spd. garage sale find posted by: Jonathan on 5/21/2002 at 4:07:54 AM
It seems uncanny that whenever I am NOT looking for garage sale bikes that is when I find the good bikes! The bike is a Dawes "Galaxy" in very good condition. It has seen some miles, but is free of damage from what I can see. The cottered cranks and simplex derailer place it below the level of premium bikes of the early 1970's. It has weinmann cp-brakes and a beautiful handlebar with ornately inscribed artwork. As there is only a vestiage of one decal, I can't tell if it was built with 531 tubing. The frame seems lightweight. Is this a "quality" bike? The name "Dawes" gives it credibility as a decent machine, but the componentry is average. The hubs are quick-release at least. Rims are steel. Was it worth the space to store for that distant restoration attempt or is it best to recycle it to "beater" status for someone needing wheels? Thanks for any info. The serial is BS####.

   †††Dawes 10 spd. garage sale find posted by John E on 5/21/2002 at 2:05:44 PM
Based on your component list, I think you have a Peugeot UO-8 equivalent (surprisingly light carbon steel frame). At best, your Galaxy has a straight gauge 531 main triangle, as does the Raleigh Super Course, which had aluminum rims and was the next step up from the Peugeot UO-8.

I would not put alot of money or effort into a full-up restoration, but I bet it's a decent rider.

   RE:†††Dawes 10 spd. garage sale find posted by Jonathan on 5/21/2002 at 5:40:30 PM
Hello, John. So, 531 tubes possible (no readable decals), but is there a way to tell sans decals? My research indicates that the "Galaxy" came into being in 1970 as a touring bike. The cottered cranks seem to make it older than 1970. The saddle is a Brooks racing type. My UO-8 is cotterless with campy-type dropout. I haven't ridden the "galaxy" to see how it performs compared to my UO-8. The "galaxy" is a tad lighter, I think based upon subjective tests like lifting it, pressing on the pedal at "6 o'clock" and bouncing it a bit on the driveway. The ride will tell me a lot. Thanks.

   RE:RE:†††Dawes 10 spd. garage sale find posted by Mike Slater on 5/21/2002 at 6:34:24 PM
The main tubes on your Galaxy are 531 - the Galaxy I used to own had the 531 sticker - BUT, did not say double butted.
Had what appeared to be stramped rear drop outs and Pellisier(sp?) hubs.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Dawes 10 spd. garage sale find posted by Walter on 5/21/2002 at 11:19:27 PM
If I'm reading Sheldon Brown aright your frame should be 531 to some degree or another.

Such a frame may well be worth some upgrading esp. if your parts stash is in decent shape. Your call.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Dawes 10 spd. garage sale find posted by Jonathan on 5/22/2002 at 5:56:41 AM
Hello, Walter. Hello Mike. Gees, thanks for the specs info. The dropouts are of a forged type as far as I can tell. They have "rounded-off" edges and a "tinkle" sound when tapped with a wrench. Other than touching them with a Wizard grinder to observe the sparks let off, I don't know how to know for sure. I'm a lot more excited about the restoration prospects. To my sight, the bike frame appears to be hand made in some intangible way. It may be that some handcrafting was employed in an assembly line manor. I CAN'T believe it was $15 at this chap's garage sale, when the new JUNK goes for $200+.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Dawes 10 spd. garage sale find posted by Hallyx on 5/23/2002 at 8:06:19 AM
I've seen two Galaxies with tube-spec decals readable. Both said "Reynolds 531." From this I infer that all tubes are 531, as no mention was made of maintubes or stays. Neither was butting mentioned, from which I infer straight guage. Isn't this how this works?

I've also heard from other sources that Dawes used 531 in the Galaxy model, and 531 double-butted in the Super Galaxy. The Galaxy was marketed from 1972 (according to my internet source, which I can no longer find) and the Super Galaxy (d/b tubing with Campy group) from 1974.

The ones Iíve looked at have the nicest stamped dropouts I've ever seen, ground totally smooth on the edges with thick chrome (as well as the fork ends and stays). I have one with forged fork dropouts (the rears are stamped) but I'm thinking it's either a replacement fork or, perhaps, a more recent model.

All the forged dropouts Iíve seen are smaller than stamped ones, slightly course, with a raised boss around the axle slot which is machined smooth and parallel (another reason to mistrust powdercoating). Stamped dropouts are larger, smooth-sided, sharper-edged, and two-dimensional (no raised boss). Is this a good way of telling them apart? What were you going to learn from grinding, Jonathan?

As far as my research can tell, Dawes was always a small company (still is) so a lot of handwork was probably used in the assembly process. The uneven brazing and slightly cobby lugwork also seem to indicate this. Smallness may have been the reason Dawes were not swallowed up by Raleigh (as was Carlton, BSA(?) and others) in the late sixties. Maybe they were just too stubborn, I like to think.

A couple of weeks ago, Christopher Robin offered to provide some info on Dawes and their products. Perhaps now would be a good time to cordially ask if he would consider doing that. Thanks, Chris.

Oh, Jonathan, if youíre not going to restore it, and if itís a 22", 23" or 24" frame, drop me a line.