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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by: Peter on 5/7/2002 at 10:40:05 PM
Does anyone have any information on the manufacturer of aluminium frames, fastened together with screws, possibly with the name Fangio. Age unknown.

AGE / VALUE:   Trash Pick-up posted by: Gralyn on 5/7/2002 at 7:51:53 PM
I occasionally see posts about folks finding bikes curb-side put out there for the trash pick-up. I personally have never witnessed anything like this. I have occasionally seen furniture at curb-side, an old TV, other misc. junk....but never ever a bike. .....Until today. I saw 3 bikes up at the curb....they were leaning on a rail fence. At first glance...I thought maybe some folks were riding them...and had just parked them there for the moment....then upon closer look....I think maybe they are for sale....then on close look....there's nothing at all to indicate they are for sale....so I figure....they must be out there for the trash pick-up. And they were crappy looking....maybe 2 of them were ladies models...one a mens...one with racing handlebars...the others with upright bars....at least 2 of them had chain guards and fenders....actually I think they all had fenders....rusted....wierd looking chain rings....but rusted...I have no idea what brands they were....but I have a notion to stop by and find out....they could be just worthless junk to me....or there could be something fairly rare and interesting to restore. .....But at least it was a first for me! Actually seeing old bikes curb-side!

   Right of Passage***Trash Pick-up posted by Ray on 5/7/2002 at 10:38:04 PM
Yes you have begun a journey that can take you to exotic places full of exotic junk. Now you will find yourself looking up the names of the bikes you passed up and find out some of them may be worth money. You will attempt to go back to the place where you saw them but alas they will be gone. The next time you will not take a chance and probaly pick them up only to find out they are worthless. Such are the beginnings of a real bike collector. Take heart, this is a right of passage and you have taken the first step. Many years ago I started down that same path and early on I found a Dayton racing bike from the 1890s which brought me a quick $350 at a swap and I was hooked. I even give my new found treasures a more acceptable name then just junk picking. I now call my jaunts the pursuit of Gutter Gold. Have fun and make plenty of space in your garage.

   RE:Right of Passage***Trash Pick-up posted by dafydd on 5/7/2002 at 11:16:02 PM
Last Saturday some fellows came into the shop I work at looking to sell quite a bit of NIB Campy parts they had trashpicked. You never know what you may find...

   one man's trash is another man's ... posted by John E on 5/8/2002 at 1:48:44 AM
Keep looking! Chance favors the trained, persistent observer.

   RE:one man's trash is another man's ... posted by freee spirit on 5/8/2002 at 6:16:41 AM
Where I am know I have seen bikes in the middle of farm fields in heaps with other rusted junk. There is one place where bikes are hanging from trees!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trash Pick-up posted by Rob on 5/8/2002 at 5:43:34 PM
Last night I "junk-picked" two bikes...(probably the last of the spring clean-up weeks for my area...) One was an old higher-end, crash-damaged Apollo (made by Kuwahara, marketed in Canada as Apollo)...fairly decent parts...nothing exciting but worth throwing on to the bike rack. The other was a black, late 80's (I guess), Cannondale road bike, aluminum frame, steel forks, nice components Nitto bars and stem, Sugino GTP? crankset, Sugino seatpost, 'aero' Dia Compe levers,SunTour Cyclone der., high end 700 Araya rims, SS spokes Miche(spelling?) hubs, 20mm Michelin Hilite tires still in good shape. But...the paint is very ugly...lots of flaking. Lots of other old non descript cottered crank bikes (I ignore them unless they have some little 'je ne sais quoi' about them)...I passed up a very rusty cottered crank bike, 30+ years old, called an Iverson...never heard of the name before... I'll be back tonight...people were still hauling out the junk as the light was fading...about 8:50PM this time of year...I like the way Ray puts it...

MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by: Keith on 5/7/2002 at 3:02:04 PM
Yesterday I received an email that indicated Campy was threatening to sue someone who was selling reproduction Campy NR/SR gum brake hoods, with the correct old logo. The email purported to have originated with the seller, who seemed to be saying he thought it was ridiculous for Campy to be picking on the little guy for selling something Campy no longer makes. In fact, Campy is not only entitled to do so, it has little choice but to pursue the matter. Its trademark name is a valuable asset, and under international and U.S. trademark law, if it fails to protect its trademark in sitiations like this, the failure can be used as a defense later when the infringement is on a larger sclale. Anyway, I recommend to the frequenters of this site not to obtain these hoods or any other infringing products for resale. Besides, I believe Dia Compe still makes plain gum hoods to fit NR/SR levers.

    Repop products posted by John E on 5/7/2002 at 3:49:06 PM
I have alot of difficulty with this issue, Keith. I concur with everything you say regarding trademark ownership, and I certainly oppose the manufacture of counterfeits of current production items. Because of the economic realities of the collector market, I also recognize a legitimate need to distinguish genuine NOS parts from repops.

However, in this day of planned, wasteful, obsolescence, it is tragic that someone cannot keep an item in attractive, operable condition because the original manufacturer no longer provides replacement parts for it. The small guys offer an ideal mechanism to cover this void.

I see two possible solutions to the dilemma:
1) The repop guys should provide subtle, but very clear, markings which distinguish their products from genuine NOS, something akin to CyclArt's left chainstay signature on their reproduction paint jobs.
2) Ideally, the original manufacturers and the repoppers should negotiate trademark usage licensing contracts. Since many of today's "Brand Y" frames, parts, etc. are built by "Brand X," anyway, this is not a big deviation from current international practice.

   RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Aldo Ross on 5/7/2002 at 3:54:12 PM
Since Campagnolo refuse to supply the replacement parts market with suitable NR/SR hoods, our only real option is to use aftermarket items. The DiaCompe hoods are not a suitable replacement, unless you don't mind the poor fit and the circular cut-outs on the sides.

I recommend that you DO buy such parts from people willing to provide them to our miniscule market. If Campagnolo refuses to provide replacement parts, they should at least license someone else to do so.

   RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Keith on 5/7/2002 at 4:04:23 PM
According to the email, this person did not first seek permision. It's not unusual to refuse to grant a license in such cases once infringement has occurred. The campyonly.com site refers to a German manufacturer producing the repop hoods. That company should have sought a license. I agree Aldo, the Dia Compes aren't perfect, but they work. But if the issue is hoods that fit better, then why not sell them without logos? I don't see the use of the Campy name as "our only real option" when it requires violation of valid trademark rights.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Steven on 5/7/2002 at 4:38:54 PM
I have negotiated license agreements for a number of Italian companies in the past and there is no reason why the manufacturer did not ask for a license from Campagnolo prior to starting production. The cost of the mold needed to make such grips is so high that the manufacturer could not possibly have done it on a lark. He must have determined that there was a sufficiently large market to warrant production. I therefore have no sympathy for any counterfeiter who gets caught. I would expect that Campagnolo would be willing to put their own grip molds up for sale (if they are not worn out) to anybody willing to produce the grips officially and the royalty rate for such grips would likely be very low.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Steven on 5/7/2002 at 4:45:16 PM
One last point, when you negotiate a license agreement, the trtademark owner must ensure that they receive at least enough money to justify the legal paperwork and in the case of Italy the registration of the contract.

   RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Keith on 5/7/2002 at 7:19:03 PM
I believe that a license could have been obtained for the additional reason that catastrophic failure of a gum brake hood isn't likely to cause any injury. So it's more like the use of a name on clothing. If the item had been a pedal or crank, for example, Campy would have had a greater interest in directly controling the quility of the product.

   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by John E on 5/7/2002 at 7:34:21 PM
If I make a product and someone counterfeits it whilst it is still in production, I can probably demonstrate lost sales and profits and rightly prevail for economic damages in most courts of law. However, once I stop producing and selling an item, I have a much tougher time proving and quantifying lost sales (of what?).

I bought some made-in-Taiwan hoods for my 1959 Weinmann brake handles. Although certainly better than nothing, they are not nearly as good as the real thing, which I wish someone would reproduce/counterfeit/whatever. (Is Weinmann even still in business?)

   RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Keith on 5/7/2002 at 7:56:42 PM
Damage goes beyond lost sales. It is the loss of control of the trademark itself that constitutes damage. Unless the owner can cotrol who can use its mark and what they make, the trademark owner cannot assure the quality of the product, and an inferior product bearing the owner's trademark diminishes the value of that mark. Moreover, the goodwill associated with a trademark has value in and of itself, and the owner is entitled to protection even if the owner NEVER made a product like the infringing item. So, if I decide to made pop bottle openers or kickstands bearing the Campagnolo logo, I've stolen the goodwill associated with Campy's name to sell my own product. Campy should be protected because Campy is the one that invested the time, effort and money to produce fine products for more than 50 years.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Steven on 5/8/2002 at 12:57:56 AM

The name Campagnolo is quite common in the Veneto area and as little as 20 Km from the bicycle component factory, there is another Campagnolo factory that makes clothing, this without any trademark infringement. This is due to the registration of trademarks according to various classifications. The clothing manufacturer was able to produce anything in category 25 with the Campagnolo name but not the logo because that was a separate trademark. There are also other categories that one could produce 'campagnolo' products.

   RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Jacques. on 5/8/2002 at 2:51:47 AM
Doesn't Campagnolo reproduce/supply vintage parts such as the 50th anniversary super record? ( with some proof of ownership ) With the growing interest in things vintage , i.e. The Originals collection from Adidas, I think it will not be long before a 'new' Super Record gruppo will be offered. Great for the people who still ride their bikes . Not so good for collectors.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Steven on 5/8/2002 at 3:32:05 AM
When I used to live in the province of Vicenza and severed one of the cogs on my Campagnolo freewheel, they sent me to a local shop to get it replaced. When I was looking for the locknut for the Paris-Roubaix gear on my Bianchi, they also suggested a local machine shop... They don't seem to have much of anything old in their warehouses. They have a beautiful factory and the machinery exemplary, but a historic yearning does not seem to exist. Sorry to give you the bad news! I nonetheless believe there is nothing better anywhere in the world.

   RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Keith on 5/8/2002 at 2:32:14 PM
Please check this for accuracy, Steven: "The English translation of 'CAMPAGNOLO' is 'countryman' and/or 'rural' or 'rustic." -- from a trademark registration filed in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office for use of the Campagnolo name for pastries (only U.S. registration other than THE Campagnolo we know and love). The USTP shows Tulio registered the World Logo in 1973. That particular trademark registration has expired, but that does not mean the mark is no longer protected -- the word Campagnolo is a non-descriptive mark that has acquied a secondary meaning associated with high-quality bicycle components. Script Campagnolo is subject to several more recent live registrations.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Steven on 5/8/2002 at 5:44:20 PM
Keith, you are right! Campagnolo is the masculine adjective to describe anything from the country (campagna). Campagnola is the feminine adjective and has been used by Fiat to describe their jeep-like vehicle that was produced from the 50's until late 70's.

   RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Keith on 5/8/2002 at 6:03:57 PM
Thanks Steven. In a similar vein, when I call Campy USA, they pronounce it "Campan-yolo." I assume they are correct and my Anglo-phonetic pronunciation is incorrect? BTW, my wife and I plan to visit Tuscany next year, so I'd greatly appreciate any advice you are willing to share with me on travel to what I've heard is a beautiful, friendly country.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Steven on 5/8/2002 at 10:49:43 PM
Keith, send me an email and I can help you with information about Italy. The letter g in Italian can be hard or soft depending on where it is used and with which letters. 'g' followed by an 'h' makes it hard like in spaghetti. 'g' followed by an 'a' an 'o' or a 'u' are also all hard. a 'g' followed by an 'e' or an 'i' are soft. the 'g' followed by an 'n' results in a sound that resembles 'nyee'.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Chris on 5/11/2002 at 6:15:39 PM
Look, Why can't Campagnolo re- use or re- make the molds and make replacement gum hoods that are safe, and exact to origonal and sell them through someplace under agreement.

With all the bike folks wanting and needing replacement hoods why don't they sell some themselves instead of worrying about somebody else doing it. If there is a need to be filled I would rather see the original comapany do it than somebody else. If they won't do it than I have no problem with somebody else filling in and getting it done as long as it is safe and can not be taken for an origonal.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Repop Campy brake hoods posted by Chris on 5/11/2002 at 6:47:00 PM
Call it "Campagnolo Beyond" change the color of the gum hoods to distinguish it from origonal and offer it for sale.

From what I hear, the Italians are set in their ways, stubborn to new ideas or ideas that come from outside the fold. The very fact that people are still loyal to the slightly older products of this company is a thing Campy should be immensly proud of. So why work against that and refuse to supply something to your fan base?

Somebody else will and it'll come out wrong, or unsafe and that could be a start or a foothold for this outside person/ company to go into other things and develop into a real thorn into the side of Campy just because they wouldn't do a run of gum hoods. It's a issue, why isn't it solved already? They outlawed alcohol and instead of everybody repenting and giving up drinking instead it had the opposite effect with speakeasys and bathtub gin, and folks going blind from drinking stuff that wasn't fit for consumption. It became something to start up a small business over. Running and making booze became the thing to do if you were willing to try. Prohibition started up orgaized crime or really helped get it going if it was already there. Are re- pop gum hoods and other re- pop things in the same league? Why don't the original companies do it themselves? I don't like re- pop because I'm loyal and prefer original quality. But if you get your back against the wall and need something and am not going to settle with going without then you buy what is available to you. If they're dumb enough to allow a opening into the company's customers in the first place over a stupid thing then they are not thinking right. Why are re- pop gum hoods even sold at all? It's not like Campy doesn't watch the marketplace. They know what's going on. Is it crooked someplace? I ask why is this going on at all. Just make the stupid part and sell it to us. You're lucky we care enough to ask at all but you know we are into your old stuff instead of going someplace else so make the stupid part and offer it.Sheesh! If I drive downtown and meet somebody on a corner are they gonna offer me re- pop gum hoods? This is silly! Where do you find these evil, illicit, re-pop gum hoods anyways? I would just keep searching until I found original parts anyways. I just don't understand it. It is not as simple or straight forward as I would like it to be. But this should be made into a thing that promotes instead of a problem that drags down. People love Campy! It has a loyal and excited following few companies enjoy. If I get sdome great idea that would help out I will send it in. For now, I don't have a really good answer about it, and perhaps I sholuld not have weighed in at all. It just hurts to see this because I love Campy like all the rest of you.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Selling bikes on e-bay posted by: Gralyn on 5/7/2002 at 2:58:13 PM
I recall a post from several weeks back about selling bikes on e-bay. The person posting was telling about a bike he posted - which went for a very low price....like maybe $10 - and how he actually lost money on the transaction. I recently bought a Hercules on e-bay....like for $10.50 (I haven't even gotten the total from the seller yet) or so...and I was thinking how the seller...by the time they figure out how much the shipping will be, package it, etc....they are losing money. I am excited about getting the bike....it's 10 speed with 1 3/8" wheels....something I don't have....it will add interesting variety to my collection. (but I don't really know what it's going to look like when I get it and actually see it.....kinda like the Peugeot I bought on e-bay....it looked OK from the pictures - but when I openned the carton......Oh my God! It looked terrible! It was so filthy, rust on all the chrome, etc. I completely rebuilt it and polished it....and it turned out to be a very beautiful bike). I will just have to see about the Hercules.

I have a couple of bike I want to get rid of. I thought about selling them on e-bay - but there's no way I could possible sell them for $10. I would be better off keeping them for parts, or donating them - rather than sell them for such a low price. Maybe I would put a reserve, or at least start them off at the price I would have to get. But then, there are bikes like that....that nobody ever bids on. Maybe if you get down to such a low-end....it's best to stay off e-bay. Any thoughts, experience, tips?

      Selling bikes on e-bay posted by John E on 5/7/2002 at 3:52:44 PM
Personal opinion, as a frequent eBay bicycle component shopper -- Given the cost and hassle of packaging and shipping, it makes no sense whatsoever to sell a low-value frameset or complete bicycle on eBay, unless you live in a geographic area with lots of potential buyers. In that case, post no reserve and a ridiculously high shipping and handling cost, with a note to the effect that the winning bidder can pick up the bike from you for the bid price alone.

   RE:   Selling bikes on e-bay posted by Art on 5/8/2002 at 4:48:13 PM
I agree with John's comments about selling low end bikes on e-bay. I have bought several bikes on e-bay, and some from individual collectors. E-bay purchases are more prone to my expectations of the condition of the bike being higher than it really is. I probably won't buy another bike off of e-bay. Individual buyers have worked better because we've tended to be on the same page about the condition of the bikes.

I really prefer the immediacy of a swap meet to the buying and selling of bikes. I had some higher end bikes that I recently moved on and although I know I could have gotten more money from them on e-bay. I couldn't resolve the notion that if the purchaser didn't like the bike when it arrived in the mail, I would then have to deal with that...have it sent back, rework the money thing.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Info needed on British Hub (BH) Racelites posted by: Bob Hufford on 5/6/2002 at 9:09:51 PM
Any British component gurus out there? I can't seem to find out anything about BH Racelite hubs. I've got a set of wheels built up from an NOS set of these. They are a one piece alloy shell (versus the old Airlites with the steel barrel). Pics at: http://members12.clubphoto.com/bob580816/759892/guest.phtml

Thanks in advance (and I did crosspost to the English Roadster group).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Info needed on British Hub (BH) Racelites posted by Warren on 5/7/2002 at 1:56:30 PM
You know I've seen them somewhere...I thought they were in the ' 52 Brown Bros catalogue but nope. I recall someone saying they were real high end...I think most BH Airlites are. Those are beautiful hubs...nice polishing job...they look like chromed steel. And what bike will they go on?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Info needed on British Hub (BH) Racelites posted by Bob Hufford on 5/7/2002 at 2:56:34 PM

Thanks for checking. These wheels came off of a "restored" mid/late '60s Raleigh/Carlton Flyer that I bought to convert to a fixed gear. I don't have a short term use for the wheelset, so will be putting them up on eBay very soon (the Campy NR components -- some drilled -- are already up there). I was curious about the hubs and wanted to pass the info along in the auction. Thanks for your help!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Singlespeed conversion posted by: darryl on 5/6/2002 at 2:32:52 PM
Is an early '80s Nishiki Prestige 12 sp. with horizontal dropouts a good candidate for singlespeed conversion? Can the orig. crank with either the large or small chainring be used? Is it just a matter of a straight chainline? If I just want one brake should I install rear or front? Do most install MTB handlebars for upright comfort?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Singlespeed conversion posted by Keith on 5/6/2002 at 2:54:55 PM
I believe Sheldon Brown has done more than one fixed gear mtb. It would be fine! A local friend of mine raced single speed mtb, both in special single speed only races and in races against derailleur-equiped bikes. He did quite well (single freewheel, not fixed.) The front brake provides about 80% of the stopping power, so if you're going with one, keep the front. If you're using a freewheel, keep both. I think it's always good to keep both, because being able to stop is good, right? Anyway, it also lets you switch between fixed and free. Local bike messengers are now riding fixed with NO brakes, but it's just an insane macho fad. Don't follow them in their foolishness. Orininal cranks will probably work -- put the chainring you want to use on the inside of the big spider, and use spacers to get it as far in as you can. Shifting spacers from the non-drive to the drive side and re-dishing the wheel may be necessary. BTW, if it's a cassette hub, you either need a new wheel or a special adapter that Sheldon's Harris sells.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Singlespeed conversion posted by Gralyn on 5/6/2002 at 5:07:05 PM
I have an 80's Nishiki I converted to fixed gear. I left both brakes on - as they were already on - otherwise - I would just go with the front brake. I used the original cranks and large chain-ring. It works great.

   rear brakes with fixed gear posted by John E on 5/6/2002 at 7:00:33 PM
Why NOT have a rear brake on a fixed-gear? Most of us want or need two brake handles, because on-the-brakehoods is such a popular riding position. The extra weight of the caliper and cable is insignificant, and every safety-critical subsystem deserves at least partial redundancy.

   RE:rear brakes with fixed gear posted by Gralyn on 5/6/2002 at 7:12:37 PM
I believe the idea is that most of the stopping power is on the front wheel - and the rear brake really only helps slow you down. And if you have fixed gear - you can use back pressure on the pedals to help slow you down - while the front brake will stop you. I have a front brake only on my Hercules fixed-gear. It didn't have any brakes, nor brazings or fittings for brake cables - so I put a front brake on it - in order to ride on the road (I can't believe that some people actually ride their fixed gears on the road without brakes???? I'm not that daring). My Nishiki was a 12 speed with all the fixins'. Since the brakes were already there - the cables, braze-on's, etc. I thought it much better to leave it there. I do like having that extra stopping power if I need it. If I was riding single speed free-wheel - I certainly would have front and rear brakes.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Singlespeed conversion posted by Walter on 5/6/2002 at 8:55:09 PM
My fixie is front brake only as it's fixed only. When stopping a fixie with the front brake and by resisting the pedals the rear wheel unweights so there is no real use for a rear brake.

John has 2 good points though. Redundancy is not always a bad thing is not always a bad thing. Also the brake hood is a common hand placement. In fact the fixies that Harris sells has a "faux" left lever while the front (and only) brake runs off the right lever.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Singlespeed conversion posted by Steven on 5/6/2002 at 10:32:15 PM
Before crashing (another story) my 1880 Rudge, I rode it all the time with the spoon brake disconnected, therefore with only the backpedal force to slow down. I never had any problems, however, with a highwheel everybody gives you a wide berth on the road. A fix with only a front brake is more than sufficient, even if two would never hurt.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Singlespeed conversion posted by Keith on 5/7/2002 at 2:26:38 PM
Here's my bottom line: if you're a fixed gear newbie, keep both brakes. Also, if your "conversion" is using a standard road hub, without reverse threads for a real track lockring, use two brakes.

     Singlespeed conversion posted by John E on 5/7/2002 at 3:55:14 PM
Anyone contemplating using a flip/flop freewheel/fixed rear wheel definitely needs a rear brake.

AGE / VALUE:   Small Gitane (very small) posted by: Gralyn on 5/6/2002 at 11:00:16 AM
My 7-yr old son spotted a small Gitane at the "Cirque du Cyclisme" bike show in Greensboro yesterday. It's a racing bike...racing handlebars, lugged frame, rear deureiller (3-speed), side-pull weinmann brakes, etc. It has approx. 20" wheels. When my son saw it - he wanted it! He didn't let up....that's all I heard the entire time I was there...until I finally made an offer on it. Well, my son is very happy with it. I knew there were bikes like this - I had seen pictures of them - but I don't think I've ever actually seen one. I thought it may be a future collectible - certainly a novelty at present. Does anyone have any knowledge of these?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Small Gitane (very small) posted by Steven on 5/6/2002 at 1:04:03 PM
The shop that I worked in used to sell a Motobécane version. They hold their value incredibly well because of their rarity. They don't seem to hold any collection potential however. In France and Italy, they continue to make them. Does yours have sew-up tires and alloy rims? If not, you can find lightweight BMX rims quite easily, to be used with high pressure slick tires. In Italy, you can find a nicely equipped used bike (perhaps 5th hand or more!) for between $100-250. Most owners keep the bike no more than a couple years and are then sold on to another member of the same bike club.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Small Gitane (very small) posted by Gralyn on 5/6/2002 at 1:59:42 PM
It certainly does need a set of tires. And I have thought....where could I possible find tires for this bike? It probably had chrome-plated steel rims and regular tires - I don't believe they are sew-ups. But hopefully, I can find some tires for it. I will probably leave the original rims on it for now.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Small Gitane (very small) posted by Keith on 5/6/2002 at 2:44:23 PM
A high school friend gave one to me a couple of years ago -- tiny Gitane -- orange paint. It had so much rust on every part, and the frame, and the frame was bent, that I ended up throwing it away. The quality of parts was low, but for a kid who's going on a 10 mile or less ride, it would have been great.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Small Gitane (very small) posted by Ray on 5/6/2002 at 3:07:46 PM
I have seen in person and on ebay a few tiny lightweight bikes. They were called Sales Samples that could be taken to prospective shops to show the quality and appearance of the bike. They are fully functional but usually look a little funny because although the frame and wheels are small the components are regular size so they look out of scale. A regular derailleur, handlebars, brake handles and seat look a little out of place on these bikes. Still I think they are pretty interesting.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Small Gitane (very small) posted by Gralyn on 5/7/2002 at 2:40:39 AM
This bike looks much to scale. The handlebars are small, etc. The components don't look large and out-of-place.

AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by: Kevin K on 5/5/2002 at 9:04:05 PM
Hi. The other night I went to town to wash my wifes car. On the way home I spotted a set of nice looking road bike tires in the trash. Turned around and sure enough I've now got a set of nice Michelin 700x20's. I see a box on top of the garbage can so I peek inside. A complete Ofmega Strada crankset in very good condition. Next I spot 2 small boxes. Inside 2 seal bearing Ofmega bottom brackets. Next a set of chain rings. As I pick those up I see a set of very pretty Campy down tube shifters. This can is FULL of vintage bike components. I worked a g truck 20 years ago and common sense was telling me to stop. However I can't help but wonder what all was being tossed out. Any thoughts, Kevin

   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by John E on 5/6/2002 at 1:25:49 AM
Nice save(s), Kevin! We live in a disgustingly wasteful society. I am always amazed that people throw useful items in the trash, when it is so easy to donate things, or even to put them curbside on a non-trash day. I have seen businesses and residents throw away furniture, books, etc. etc. when moving. Affluenza at its worst!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by Ray on 5/6/2002 at 3:13:44 PM
I have had similar situations in the past and first I want to take possesion so no one else aces me out of the find. Next I go to the door of the place seemingly throwing the stuff out and ask them if it is really trash. Each time I have done this I have rode away with a nice lot of stuff and a clear conscious. Yes it is amazing what you find.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by rick on 5/6/2002 at 4:44:04 PM
gentelmen this is called dump digging it's my pashion ..every sunday earley mornings.. my wife & i when we first got to gather i think the first pile of junk we saw she was in the floorbord however i contenued to colect untill i had a large quanity loaded it all up & went to the sale had a good time made hundreds on the way home the wife said thair's a pile she was digging before i could get out of the van it dosent matter now if the people are standing in the front yard we dump dig lots of fun the old saying is one mans junk's another's dollar

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by Steven on 5/6/2002 at 10:49:14 PM

How did your fund-raising ride go at the weekend?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by Tony T. on 5/7/2002 at 8:41:58 PM
Kevin, your post reminded me of my college days. I got a flat, so I put my spare rear wheel on and went for a ride; I left the wheel with the flat on the porch. I came home the next day and one of the people I was renting the place with was real proud that he'd "cleaned up all that junk on the porch". I ran outb to the porch, the wheel was gone, went to the dump too, no luck there either. Some "dumppicker" went home with a perfect (other than tire/tube) campy NR rear wheel w/regina freewheel.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by Tony T. on 5/7/2002 at 8:42:43 PM
Kevin, your post reminded me of my college days. I got a flat, so I put my spare rear wheel on and went for a ride; I left the wheel with the flat on the porch. I came home the next day and one of the people I was renting the place with was real proud that he'd "cleaned up all that junk on the porch". I ran outb to the porch, the wheel was gone, went to the dump too, no luck there either. Some "dumppicker" went home with a perfect (other than tire/tube) campy NR rear wheel w/regina freewheel.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by Kevin K on 5/8/2002 at 12:48:30 AM
Hi Tony. Your post about leaving something lay and take care of it later reminded me of a situation I had a few years back. I restored a Buick Skylark. I had fenders shipped in from Ca. and bought tons of NOS parts. The $$$$$$$ hit $7,000 and no where in sight being done. So I started buying parts cars and cleaning up the useable pieces to save $$$$$$ I would clean them and my wife would throw them away. By accident of course. 3 parts cars and another $2000 later my Buick was on the road. Watch out for those picker up types. Kevin K

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by rickey on 5/8/2002 at 5:52:35 PM
it was trying to rain however we rode any way it was a blast i think the school raised nearly 250.000.00 we still ride every sunday all's welcome to come ride

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ? posted by rickey on 5/8/2002 at 6:04:59 PM
sorry the land lord should not have thrown out your stuff & the wife dosent know the value of a dollar very unfortunate pickeruppers aren't to blame keep on dump digging !

MISC:   Bridgestone Lightweights posted by: Ian on 5/5/2002 at 8:48:19 AM
Hi, can anybody enlighten me on the history of these? Who made them and for how long? What sort of quality? I have been offered one but have not yet seen it and it is a fair way to go so I thought I would consult with the sages first. It is supposedly from the seventies but has disc brakes?? The seller has no idea what sort of componentry. I have heard of the marque but have never seen one here in New Zealand so it was probably a private import. What do you guys and gals think? Should I spend any time or gas money pursuing this? Thanks, Ian.

   RE:MISC:   Bridgestone Lightweights posted by Kevin K on 5/5/2002 at 12:15:36 PM
Hi. The name means little. See if you can get more info on the model, equiptment, tubing......... I had a Bridgestone a few years back. Overall an ok bike. Nothing special. a $10 bike. Then I saw one at a bike race held in our town. Wow ! The difference was like in the Schwinn family of comparing a Varsity to bike of Paramount/ Volare status. So find out more and update same. Kevin

   RE:MISC:   Bridgestone Lightweights posted by David on 5/5/2002 at 12:33:39 PM
The report that it's 70s and has disk brakes suggests that it's pretty low-end. The newfangled components (disk brakes, front freewheels, etc) always seemed to be tried out on low-end models before being [usually] abandoned.

   RE:MISC:   Bridgestone Lightweights posted by Warren on 5/5/2002 at 1:07:23 PM
Bridgestones were Japanese and were solid and plain steel bikes. At some point in time they came under progressive management and their bikes started to reflect a specific philosophy of cycling. They introduced moustache bars on some city bikes, and their road and mountain bikes (RB-1...MB-1 etc) were somwhat eccentric but high quality. The later, "better" models are quite good and collectible. There is also a fairly high volume discussion group called the"BoB" list...or "Bridgestone Owners Bunch". If you are into sport touring this is a good group to monitor but it has a very high "signal-to-noise" ratio. The spirit of Bridgestone is carried on in the Rivendell Bicycle company...manufacturers of beautiful high end custom frames that are often equipped with retro-componentry to emulate the esoteric philosophy of the Bridgestone company. (does that make sense?) Their bikes are functional, made with exacting precision to accomodate mudguards, sidepulls, racks etc. I believe Grant Peterson of Rivendell was one of the progressive managers or importers of Bridgestone.

One last note about the disc brakes...Phil Woods made an early model of front disc hub brakes that is somewhat collectable. The first version of this brake was unsafe because the front wheel required dishing and would collapse when turning under power (yikes!) but it was quickly replaced with a better design. I still wouldn't ride it.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Bridgestone Lightweights posted by Gralyn on 5/6/2002 at 11:14:47 AM
I bought my wife a Bridgestone back about the mid-1980's. A ladies model. It was (actually still is - I still have it) a nice lightweight bike. It rode good, and seemed to be well-built.

   RE:MISC:   Bridgestone Lightweights posted by Keith on 5/6/2002 at 3:01:04 PM
Rivendell still sells the Bridgestone catalogs from two years -- can't remember which. Fairly cheap too. I don't have them but I'd think they'd be a must-have for BOB folks.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Bridgestone Lightweights posted by rickey on 5/8/2002 at 6:12:42 PM
any one want a mid 60's bridgestone 3 speed i found it on the side of the road ship it to you ! if the price is right !

AGE / VALUE:   Colnago bike for sale posted by: Steven on 5/5/2002 at 5:17:20 AM
There is a Colnago with Super Record componentry for sale on E-bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1826834487

   Colnago bike for sale posted by John E on 5/6/2002 at 1:28:06 AM
$400 so far, with 6 days to go. Fortunately(?) too tall a frame for me.

AGE / VALUE:   Giubilato posted by: Rob on 5/5/2002 at 3:28:27 AM
I saw a 70's Giubilato today, model??, color teal...Ofmega crank, Ofmega derailleurs, Modolo brake levers (calipers said Mistral...model??). wheels Nisi(?...I think), tires Vittorio, Tubes were something like 'Orsi'...(it wasn't Aelle). Condition was very good...it looked like it had hardly been used.

What would a bike like this be worth??...Good points...bad points? I seem to remember a short discussion recently on Giubilato, but I can't find the posting. (I remember from whatever I was reading that 'Giubilato' is Italian for 'Jubilee'...)


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Giubilato posted by Steven on 5/5/2002 at 5:02:16 AM
Check their website out: http://www.giubilatocicli.com/english/home.html

The bike sounds to be late 70's or early 80's from the components. At the time it would have gone for about $600. Not top dollar but likely very nice riding. It will never be a true collector's bike but would make for a great everyday ride.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Giubilato posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/5/2002 at 7:41:23 PM
I'm the one that startred that thread. I was asking for information on this and I got it. I was pleased that somebody knew about it and wrote in. Mine is in Rubino Red and mine has all Campy parts on it. Keep scrolling backwards and backwards and you'll find the post.

MISC:   Cool Aussie 531 frame on ebay posted by: David on 5/5/2002 at 12:04:11 AM
Wish it were my size!

   RE:MISC:   Cool Aussie 531 frame on ebay posted by Art on 5/6/2002 at 2:20:24 AM
That frame went for $200 including shipping which is a good price, I think, for a hand built, small builder racing frame.

AGE / VALUE:   Good deal on Ebay posted by: Steven on 5/4/2002 at 12:54:28 AM
Last week there was a discussion about how difficult it is to get a good deal on e-bay. I believe there is one in the making because the seller labelled the bike incorrectly. It says that it is a touring bike, but is actually a nice 1970's Olympia with Campagnolo. At present it is just over $100. see http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1825186927

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good deal on Ebay posted by Brian L. on 5/4/2002 at 1:52:03 AM
Check out http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=1826567309&t=0&r=0&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebaylargephotohosting for another extremely good deal, IMHO. Just take a look at the prices for Rivendell Allrounders and compare to the Buy-it-now price on the Bridgestone original. My wife would kill me, so I'm not going to pursue it, but I would seriously like one of these.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good deal on Ebay posted by Gralyn on 5/4/2002 at 2:26:21 PM
I suppose there are good deals to be had on e-bay. I just bought an old Hercules on e-bay....like for $10.50...which sounds like a good deal - but add the shipping....and it comes out a little steep for that bike. The thing was - I thought it was interesting - and thought it would be good in my collection. I don't have a lot of bike knowledge - but I suppose this is the kind of bike you normally pick up for $10 - $20 and I will have $35 - $45 in it right off the bat. I don't have the knowledge....but if I did....there may be items on there where the seller doesn't know what they are worth...and maybe nobody else picks up on it....and you can get a really good deal.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good deal on Ebay posted by Mike Slater on 5/5/2002 at 5:25:08 PM
Your better off not even looking at the price when there is still 4 days to go. Wait till the last 30 minutes to see if its still a bargain.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good deal on Ebay posted by Steven on 5/7/2002 at 12:12:32 PM
The seller stopped the sale with just over one day left because of an error in the description. It was still at $114. The bike has SR brakes, NR rear derailleur, Valentino front derailleur, SR seatpost, Superleggeri pedals, cheap swaged chainset, 3TTT bars and stem, Nisi Toro rims, Selle Italia Buffalo saddle. The frame is likely made of Falk tubing and the hubs and headset are likely Ofmega (I'm not sure of either of these). Apart from the chainset which would need to go, the bike as a whole was quite impressive and Olympia makes frames with great geometry. At least worth $250. I suppose it will be relisted with a more correct listing

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Mike A. on 5/3/2002 at 11:26:00 PM
My brother has purchased a Schwinn Suburban That seller claimed was one of the last Suburban's made(1982), Ser. # is LT72447. Is this correct?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Oscar on 5/6/2002 at 4:20:42 AM
That serial number indicates 1982, which was the year that the Chicago Schwinn plant (which made Suburbans) closed. Therefore, it is one of the last made, but Schwinn made thousands of bikes that year.

AGE / VALUE:   VISCOUNT AREOSPACE SPORT posted by: FREEE SPIRIT on 5/3/2002 at 8:32:03 PM
Today at a garage sale I saw a Viscount areospace sport for $45, it had the lambert crank with the tape reel chain wheels but all the other parts had been changed. The fork had a nice fork crown and wasnt the death fork. Is ths a japanese bike or one of the last of the british bikes. At the bicycle redezvouz site the models they list are all called gran prix. The bike had suntour superbe, brakes and calipers, cinelli bar and stems, simano 600 derailers, phil wood hubs and other quality stuff.