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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Interesting Collection Up for Sale posted by: desmo on 6/12/2002 at 1:31:48 AM

Rather interesting collection of old racing bike bits. I esp liked the "indexed" Oscar Egg Super Champion gear lever.

   VALUE of my schwinn vintage bike posted by sonny on 6/12/2002 at 3:42:38 PM
i just want to know the age and how much my bike is werth
if any body can tell me please do it is a baby blue vintage
schwinn thanks

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1957 CINELLI- info please posted by: KRhea on 6/12/2002 at 12:33:51 AM
Looking for any and all info on this year or era of Cinelli. I have finally found one to purchase and cannot find any info concerning "from the factory parts, etc". This is a very sweet bike with a 100% Cyclart restoration, original Campy Gran Sport derailluers, wheels are original tied and sodered wooden rims, 5 speed with only a right side braze on for the single shifter, orignal "C" bolts on the ends of the axles, original Cinelli bars and stem etc etc.
I would also appreciate any help with estimated value of the bike. I plan to make an offer in a couple days and could use some help.
Condition wise with the restoration I'd rate the bike an 8.5/9 on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being mint.

Thanks a bunch!


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1957 CINELLI- info please posted by Keith on 6/13/2002 at 2:36:19 PM
You're gwetting into rarified air here -- I'd contact the Classic Rendezvous eMail group, Mike Kone, and possibly Vintage Velos.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1957 CINELLI- info please posted by Chuck Schmidt on 6/13/2002 at 5:29:53 PM
There is a Cinelli Registry at < http://www.petry.org/markp/cinolog.htm>

The single right side braze-on shifter boss would either be an indication of a bike set up for time trials (single chainring) or a bike set up for Simplex or Huret or Campagnolo Sport derailleurs that were not cable operated.

Wood rims were not used after WWII (aluminum rims were introduced in the early 1930s).

Chuck Schmidt
South Pasadena, Southern California

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1957 CINELLI- info please posted by Steven on 6/13/2002 at 11:49:11 PM
Chuck is correct that wood wasn't used widely after WWII. Wood rims were used on road bikes into the 50's but only by die-hards who had used them earlier. They continued to be used on track bikes for a longer period. I am somewhat confused by the description given of the bike. What bolts are there with the C? Are you speaking of the Q/R levers and lock nut? If the wheels are bolt-ons, then it could have originally been a track bike, but then the braze-on makes no sense?

AGE / VALUE:   Heavyweights riding lightweights posted by: darryl on 6/11/2002 at 8:42:24 PM
At what body weight should you be concerned about damage to axels, bottom brackets, wheels & frames as re: 1970's & 1980's 10 and 12 sp road bikes? Assuming one is riding with care and avoiding obstacles, curbs, etc.. Is there any special wording that I should add to a bill of sale to avoid liability in case of equipment failure? I occasionally fix up vintage bikes and sell them. Thanks,Darryl

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Heavyweights riding lightweights posted by Warren on 6/12/2002 at 1:46:22 AM
I have never seen a disclaimer on any bill of sale for a bike. Nor to they put maximum gross weight on them. If it bothers you, why not write "as is" on the bill of sale.

   Heavyweights riding lightweights posted by Elvis on 6/12/2002 at 4:57:41 AM
Same here; I've never seen a disclaimer either. Most bike shops, however, do make you sign a form saying you'll obey traffic laws, will keep the bike mantained and running safely, etc. But I've never seen a disclaimer. On a personal experience note, the main thing i have a problem with from weight and impact damage is rims. Though i ride with utmost care to avoid pot-holes, some of them are the size of Oregon and there's no going around them unless you head into another zip code. usually what happens is I get a wheel out of true. Once I let a friend borrow a bike to try it [old 70's Gitane ten speed] and as I watched in horror he hopped a twelve-inch curbing... That busted a bottom bracket, but that was the only time that happened... if the rider rides carefully the only problem I can forsee is busted or out of true rims...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Heavyweights riding lightweights posted by Keith on 6/12/2002 at 4:42:15 PM
A number of new parts do have disclaimers. For example, Speedplay pedals with titanium axles, are rated for 170 pounds. I think some after marcket ti bottom brackets and low spoke count wheels may also have limits. A tall mechanic friend of mine once opined that larger riders on tall frames were better off avoiding the thinner and lighter Columbus tubes. If I was over 200, I'd definately avoid the sub-3 pound aluminum frames being pushed today. That being said, the garden variety lightweight bikes of the 70s and early 80s, with lugged, straight gauge or butted chrome moly or manganese moly tubing, and 36 spoke wheels, ought to be able to support riders at least up to 250, assuming the frame is sound to begin with, and the rider doesn't abuse it, as Elvis describes. The small diameter hollow axles from that era can be a problem for big riders -- all you can do is replace them when they break, or when you first notice they're bent.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by: P.C. Kohler on 6/11/2002 at 6:28:57 PM
Advice please...

My cycling experience and collection has been limited to DL-1 roadsters and other three-speed type machines. But I am sorely tempted by a Raleigh Super Lenton described as follows:

"Offered is a superb condition 23 inch Raleigh Super Lenton. Original equipment throughout apart from tyres. Reynolds 531 frame and forks with chrome ends. Sturmey Archer alloy FM four speed hub. GB bars, stem, brakes, levers and cable clips. Dunlop special lightweight 27x1 1/4 wheels. Bluemels engraved pump and mudguards. Brooks B17 saddle and toe clips and a millar bell. I have not seen a bike in such good condition and it is a joy to ride."

I have always been intrigued by these club machines. Is this a good one to go for? The problem is that it is in England and the shipping costs are well... daunting!


P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by smg on 6/11/2002 at 7:30:40 PM
I've drooled over it too. I'm very, very glad that it's too big for me, so I wouldn't be tempted to make a bid for it. I don't even want to think about the shipping charges. But it's a wonderful inspiration for what might be done with the next orphaned frame I find!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by Eric Amlie on 6/11/2002 at 7:33:43 PM
You should post this over at the English Roadsters section of this site also. I think those guys could give you some pretty good advice.

FWIW...I've seen these alloy four speed hubs go for some pretty good jing on Ebay.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by dafydd on 6/11/2002 at 10:23:42 PM
I've been eying it as well... my size, low on cash... If the opening bid is the reserve, you're getting a very good deal, even with shipping factored in, if you break it down by parts (although I'm not a big believer in parting out). I once bid on a FM for 160 or so and still didn't make reserve. It's a beautiful bike to boot.

If the price is daunting, take the long-term route, as I'm doing: build your own! I picked up a Carlton bike (may be a 60s Huffy Carlton, not sure) with Dunlop Special Lightweight rims, bought a AM hub and laced it up, got some Bluemels, and am looking out for bars,stem, and brake levers to finish it off. It takes more time and certainly isn't as authentic, but it doesn't cost as much up front and you can take some pride in creating something a little different. Project after that is a cromoly 3- or 5-speed "urban club" bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by Steven on 6/11/2002 at 11:38:24 PM
For those of you who have not seen this bike, the link is:

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by Warren on 6/12/2002 at 2:11:20 AM
Oldtowncyclery has a newer (62) Raleigh for sale as a charity donation. It is not truly a club bike but a racer and it is almost pristine. Go to http://www.oldtowncyclery.com/cframe.htm and scroll down. Go to the extra pics. This is a sweet bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/12/2002 at 4:42:21 AM
Thanks guys.... she is a beaut and I was kidding myself I was the only one drooling over her. If I ever wanted to liquidate my sterling assets, I guess this would be a good start. Keep repeating after me... it's only money, it's only money....

P.C. Kohler

   Shipping costs from Europe posted by Tom Findley on 6/12/2002 at 10:59:31 AM
UPS charges $3 a pound to ship items from Europe.

   RE:Shipping costs from Europe posted by Art on 6/12/2002 at 1:39:55 PM
I've been watching this from the get go with the thought of trying to win it. It will cost a $100 by boat, $150 by air for shipping. According to the seller it's all original stuff and he's right, the parts themselves are worth a lot. ( he claims more than the reserve, but I don't know what it is.) That's the reason I posted about finding 27" wheels on S/A hubs. I wanted to get a feel for how uncommon originals are...the only already built set I was offered (I posted here, I-Bob, and CR) were for a 3 spd for $140 from Bicycle Classics. So that's $300 so far (which is about what is currently offered) and you have the 4 sp hub which is higher, the full GB parts, bluemels, saddle, bag...who knows. And I thought no one had seen it! hah....Well if it's any consolation for those of us who probably won't be getting this bike, the frame is almost transfer free, seller said that the overzealous previous owner polished off all but the super lenton on the seat tube and just the outline of the transfer exists on the downtube and the box pinstriping is gone...Well that's my story. I'm depressed now.

   RE:RE:Shipping costs from Europe posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/12/2002 at 4:08:34 PM
Actually, I think Lloyds of the UK can supply replacement transfers for most of the Lenton models.

But, I, too, whilst in the bidding for this, have no delusions about being ultimately successful. As the price rises, it's not just the cost but the consequences. The last thing I want to do is to spend so much for it that I feel it should be set in aspic and hung on a wall or something. What a 'orrible fate for a club cycle! I want to RIDE this gorgeous cycle, not worship it. I guess I'll have to stick with my roadsters and sports type machines. Prices have not quite reached 'silly season' with them... but they're working on it! Anyway, let's hope this handsome plum-coloured Lenton finds a good home and gets some miles on her.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by Keith on 6/12/2002 at 7:57:33 PM
The profile of this Lenton is almost identical to that of my Dawes fixed gear commuter, which also has Blummells mudguards. Keep in mind a lot of Brit club riders used fixed gear or single speed freewheels with flip-flop hubs. It's not difficult to assemble such a bike starting with a vintage Brit frame, to get the feel and sense of one, IMO. I personally don't feel drivwen to go the whole 9 yards and obtain an original, or find NOS Chatter-Lea parts for one. I also have a couple of DL-1s and a nice Sports. Fun bikes, but a club bike would feel oh so much faster by comparison.

   RE:RE:RE:Shipping costs from Europe posted by smg on 6/12/2002 at 8:24:40 PM
When the club bike bug bit, the first thing I decided was that an original was not in the running. They're old enough and rare enough that I figured they belonged in the hands of a serious collector rather than someone like me who just wanted something to ride. I found a much-modified early-'70s Raleigh Super Course for $60 at Recycled Cycles (Seattle) and haunted eBay for several months looking for components. It recently attained its final form with an AM hub and a Campy steel "Sport" cotterless crank. (I like the slenderness of steel crank arms, but cotters and I never got along very well) The result is one of the most enjoyable-riding bikes I've ever owned. within the basically level-ground limitation established by the narrow range of the hub. Authentic? Hardly, although there surely must have been some of the originals made with such a middle-grade frame. And another bike-boom "10-speed" is spared from the scrap furnace for another life. . .

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by David on 6/13/2002 at 3:26:47 AM
Why not plan a quick trip to England and pick it up? You should be able to carry it as baggage on a plane for not much extra. Fares are cheap and you could have some fun, too.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by dafydd on 6/13/2002 at 3:30:40 AM
Speaking of club bikes and hubs, Hilary Stone (a good source on ebay) has a FM hub for sale, reserve is $160...


He also sometimes offers parts for sale on the Classic Rendezvous list.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/13/2002 at 3:26:57 PM
Just to cap this thread: the Lenton went for £250.00 and the reserve was £200.00. I was in the running but the winner appears to be a serious buyer of upscale bike bits and in the UK (I think). So hopefully she has a good home and she'll stay in England which is only fitting. Me, I'm going to go out and buy another vintage English three speed roadster as a 'rebound'....

P.C. Kohler, depressed....

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Lenton posted by Keith on 6/14/2002 at 2:44:28 PM
I can't let it go at that! Go out and find a nice early 1970s Raleigh Super Course, Competition, or International. Or, better still, look for one of the many wonderful small shop British lightweights -- Bob Jackson, Woodrup, Witcomb, Mercian, etc. Expand your cycling horizons (while staying British in focus). BTW I rode one of my DL-1s to work today.

AGE / VALUE:   do you ride posted by: rickey@knowlesbicycle334-756-7561 on 6/11/2002 at 3:46:33 PM
would you like to know how to stay cool in this summer heat

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   do you ride posted by darryl on 6/11/2002 at 8:40:55 PM

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   do you ride posted by Warren on 6/12/2002 at 2:53:11 AM
Would you like to know how to stop using a discussion board for your own commerce?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   do you ride posted by rick on 6/20/2002 at 3:42:56 PM
waren you could keep your opinion's to your self

WANTED:    posted by: Alan.G on 6/11/2002 at 1:43:54 PM
Hello, This is a great board. I'm looking to buy a nice vintage Motobecane bicycle. I owned one about 20 years ago & Loved that bike, It was stolen. If anyone has a nice & orig Motobecane for sale please post it or email me. thank you, Alan.G

   RE:WANTED:    posted by Dick B. on 6/11/2002 at 6:15:54 PM
I have several Moto's available. Where are you located? I'm in Los Angeles.

   RE:WANTED:    posted by deb on 6/11/2002 at 7:00:55 PM
Hi Alan,

In 1984, I bought a new Grand Jubilee (23" frame)which I put less than 200 miles on.
It's always been stored inside - dusty, but no rust. Are you on the east coast?

   RE:WANTED:    posted by billy on 6/11/2002 at 11:41:11 PM
ha alan, there is a beautiful 1975 red motobecane bike up on ebay right now. its ebay # 2112040166 its a tall bike & its under $100. good luck.

   RE:WANTED:    posted by Bryant on 6/12/2002 at 11:26:05 AM
If you're close to the Baltimore area, I have a mid 1970's Moto Super Mirage. Was a 10 speed but due to a bad hub, made it into a 12 speed. Silver 23 in frame everything else except the bar tape is original. happy hunting

   RE:RE:WANTED:    posted by Alan on 6/12/2002 at 4:43:02 PM
Hello Bryant, How much are you asking for the bike? Thanks, Alan

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:    posted by Bryant on 6/12/2002 at 8:20:30 PM
I'm asking $75. Email me if you want more info at Bryant.Debruyne@usag.apg.army.mil. My home computer blew up and is being fixed. The Moto is a nice bike, just too small for me.

AGE / VALUE:   Paolo Savoldelli's time trial bike posted by: Steven on 6/11/2002 at 6:35:24 AM
The bike that Paolo Savoldelli (the winner of this year's Giro d'Italia over Tyler Hamilton) used during his giro winning time trial ride is being offered for sale on Italian ebay. The proceeds from the sale are to go to the Milanese EMS. As it is a time trial bike, it has likely been used for only very few kilometers. It comes with affidavit and all. I was just outbid at $750. The bike will likely bring in the $3-5000 range. This will definitely become a historical keepsake.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Paolo Savoldelli's time trial bike posted by rickey@knowles bicycle shop on 6/11/2002 at 1:15:38 PM
good question

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Paolo Savoldelli's time trial bike posted by Steven on 6/11/2002 at 6:14:28 PM
It varies from team to team and what type of sponsorship deal they have with the bike builder. Most teams only receive the bikes on 'loan' which means they return to the builder at the close of the season. The builder can then use them as they see fit. Most bikes are however quite well worn and better for show than for a further intense racing use. Other sponsors are also usually given a bike or two for advertising use. I own the De Rosa bike that Roberto Conti (the winner of the Alpe D'Huez stage of the tour back a number of years ago) used in 2000. I got mine directly from De Rosa upon conclusion of the racing season. Luckily, mine was his alternate bike and was hardly used. I believe that USPS sells their bikes through their shop in Belgium. You can however check it out on their website. The Savoldelli time trial bike is great in that it was victorious and hardly used.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Paolo Savoldelli's time trial bike posted by Steven on 6/11/2002 at 6:19:09 PM
Rereadinh my original posting, I see that I forgot to include the link: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1835762625

Sorry for the oversight

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Paolo Savoldelli's time trial bike posted by Tom Findley on 6/11/2002 at 11:48:33 AM
Where do Lance Armstrong's bikes go after the season is over, plus the other USPS Team bikes?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Mikado? posted by: Gralyn on 6/11/2002 at 2:00:37 AM
Anyone ever heard of Mikado?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Mikado? posted by Steven on 6/11/2002 at 6:45:20 AM
Mikado was a brand of bikes sold out of Québec in the 80's. They were mostly touring bikes. Very uninspiring but well made. If I remeber correctly, they were all made in Taiwan.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Those French! posted by: Oscar on 6/11/2002 at 1:32:58 AM
Can French threaded pedals be re-threaded into English?

   RE:   Those French! posted by Eric Amlie on 6/11/2002 at 12:36:41 PM
The British threading seems to be just a hair larger in diameter than the French. I have re-threaded crank arms from French to English and that works fine. I just got a pair of Lyotard 460d pedals that seem to be French threaded. When I screw them into some Japanese cranks that I have they are somewhat loose. I am wondering if some teflon tape wrapped around the pedal threads would tighten them up sufficiently. Perhaps wiping the crankarm threads with JB weld then rethreading to French after it cures? Just some thoughts. First I will go through my box of Stronglight 93 crank stuff and see if I have some French threaded arms though. Much easier to change crank arms. Just some thoughts.

   RE:RE:   Those French! posted by Bill Putnam on 6/11/2002 at 4:33:09 PM

Teflon tape around French threaded pedals into British threading is a dangerous combination, same goes for JB welding and tapping to French threads.

The pedal/crank interface is poorly designed and weak even when it is set up properly. You might be able to find some British threaded pedal spindles to go in your Lyotard pedals and use them on British threaded cranks. For that matter, I may be able to find some British threaded pedal spindles for you-email me directly.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Those French! posted by Rob on 6/11/2002 at 5:24:19 PM
This all gets very convoluted...the French thread pitch is almost always, from what I can tell, 1 mm, the English, is either 26tpi or 24tpi...which translates into slightly more or slighly less threads per unit of measure than the French...there are 25.4 mm per inch. Because of the minor differences some of these things seem like they will work..the bolt, or whatever, starts off OK, but may be sloppy then part way in, starts to bind. Also on the pedals specifically..the French spindle diameter is significantly smaller...unless there is another "twist" so to speak that I'm not aware of...Sheldon Brown's Harris Cyclery) site has an excellent comparison chart for all of these French/English/Italian/Japanese standards.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Those French! posted by Rob on 6/11/2002 at 6:08:40 PM
I just checked the Sheldon Brown site, which I should have done first...This is what he says:

Pedal threads 9/16" (14.29mm) x 20 TPI (1.27 mm) vs 14mm x 1.25mm...(I added the bracketed conversions)

...pretty subtle differences...I actually thought the French spindle size was quite a bit smaller...oh well...

   RE: Don't do it! posted by Eric Amlie on 6/11/2002 at 7:22:44 PM
Thanks for your wise advice Bill. I learn a little more each day.

    Don't do it! posted by John E on 6/13/2002 at 1:48:10 AM
Bill's advice is absolutely spot-on! I have seen customers (and even mechanics) destroy aluminum (and even steel) cranks by installing French-threaded pedals.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Those French! posted by: Oscar on 6/11/2002 at 1:32:58 AM
Can French threaded pedals be re-threaded into English?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Those French! posted by Oscar on 6/11/2002 at 1:34:58 AM

AGE / VALUE:   Dura-Ace EX pedals posted by: Steven on 6/11/2002 at 1:24:05 AM
A few months ago somebody was looking for Duar-ace EX aerodynamic pedals or to repair a set. There is a pair of NOS for sale on Ebay in Germany. The price with 5 months to go is at 1 euro (less than a dollar). The link is: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1834873639

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dura-Ace EX pedals posted by Steven on 6/11/2002 at 6:26:34 PM
It should have read 5 days to go not 5 months. It was late!

WANTED:   S/A wheelset posted by: Art on 6/10/2002 at 7:05:08 PM
I'm looking for a 27" wheelset, matching rims, with a Sturmey Archer 3,4, or 5 speed hub and shift lever for a club bike project that I'll use as a commuter in the fall. E-mail me if you have any ideas or leads. Thanks Art.

   RE:S/A wheelset posted by Bill Putnam on 6/11/2002 at 4:36:00 PM
Note that the S5 and FW internals can be used in an AW shell-hence if you get a 40 hole S5 or FW you can pick up a junk 36 hole AW and use your internals in it.

   RE:WANTED:   S/A wheelset posted by smg on 6/10/2002 at 8:20:51 PM
If you want a 27" (or 700c) S-A wheel, expect to have to build it or have it built. Finding an AW hub, new or old, should be easy. For more exotic hubs, keep watch on the Sturmey-Archer eBay site. I've bought an AM and an FW there. FW hubs (wide-ratio 4-speed) seem to be offered for sale pretty regularly; the down side is that they often 40-spoke ones. S5-type hubs appear about as often, but they're usually the original S5 with the bellcrank shift linkage on the left side instead of the (to me) more desirable indicator chain of the S5/1 and S5/2. 4-speed shift triggers also come up occasionally; in this respect the S5 has the advantage in that it can be operated with a pair of 3-speed triggers.
Be aware that Sturmey-Archer's assembly quality control seemed to have trouble with anything other than an AW. I have an S5/1 in addition to the AM and FW, and the only one that came to me correctly assembled was the AM. Plan on having the hub overhauled by a knowledgeable mechanic.
Good luck on this project; I've been having a lot of fun assembling and riding a couple of replica club bikes in the past few months. They're very practical commuter mounts, of course.

   S/A wheelset posted by John E on 6/10/2002 at 8:53:40 PM
If you do not have the right trigger, you can always control your S-A hub with a regular friction downtube (or top tube, for that retro club look) lever or a barcon.

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Elvis on 6/10/2002 at 7:00:07 PM
Hi all. I was trying to decide which of my older bikes to donate and which to keep. Any idea on where the "Tour de france" was in Motobecane's lineup? It's really old, with Huret derailuer and steel cranks. Also, where was the "Nomade" in their line?

Also, I recently acquired a Lotus. Has anyone ever heard of this brand before? Haven't ridden it yet, needs some work. The model is "Grand Prix". Typical Jap handlebars and shifters. nothing fancy but a neat looking set of Aluminum cranks by an unrecognizable mark. Anyone ever heard of Lotus?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Keith on 6/11/2002 at 5:16:56 PM
Lotus was an American designed, Japanese line of bicycles in the 1980s. Sheldon Brown's article on japanese bikes gives the name of the founder and the Japanese company that made them. - www.sheldonbrown.com I have a 1983 Lotus Competition. The frame is Columbus tubing, and the groupo is full Campy NR/SR. It has chrome pantographed fork crown and chrome head lugs, with modest diamond cutouts. In all respects an Italian wannnabe. A lbs owner told me that th first bike he evewr sold was a Lotus Competition, for about $250 -- at that point Campy NR stuff was pretty cheap, combined with a favorable exchange rate with Japan, I believe. I've seen touring bikes under the Lotus brand, and they seem nice but nothing fabulous. The company is not affiliated with Lotus of GB, or the record-breaking aero Lotus track bike designed by Mike Burrows. I'm waiting for a nice Italian frame to come my way and I'll hang the almost new NR/SR groupo from the Lotus on it. Lotus frzame will then be sold or made into fixed gear.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Walter on 6/11/2002 at 12:39:45 AM
When I bought my Nomade in ca. 1977 it was their entry roadbike. Steel rims, bolted hubs, Huret changers. Mine did have alloy cotterless cranks though. Beautiful paint smething Moto was known for. I've seen earlier Nomades and they had steel cottered cranks. While I have a soft-spot for Motos I'd have to say your Nomade esp. with steel cranks is a candidate for "herd thinning." Never seen or heard of a "Tour de France" by Moto they must have dropped that appellation by the later 1970s. Tell me more about it. Of course Gitane made a quite nice bike with that title.

Not real knowledgable about Lotus. Asian I believe. Not real collectable if you need the space.....

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Gralyn on 6/11/2002 at 1:54:22 AM
Lotus Grand Prix:
That was my first decent bike. I still have it - though it's 20 years old. It was / is a good Japanese bike. It's very light for it's day and price. It has 1 1/8" wheels. I still love it. Long ago - when I had almost no knowledge at all about bikes - I thought it was a really good bike - now as I have collected many more - it seems kinda average - and unfortunately the kind of bike I usually pay $10 - $30 for. But honestly, I wouldn't take $100 for it. It is a really good bike.

AGE / VALUE:   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by: Tim on 6/10/2002 at 4:12:20 PM
Hi. I posted a little bit earlier about a lovely old Crescent 531 I picked up. I mentioned that the origial derailleur had been replaced. Well, this weekend I looked closer, and back in the 70's that horrible day that they replaced the Campy derailleur with a Simplex, they chopped off the hanger!

This bike is in beautiful original condition, with excellent paint, and even the orig old cloth bar tape. As my buddy pointed out, it has horizontal drop-outs - maybe it wants to become a track bike.

Any thoughts on the merits and cost of re-welding a hanger on such a bike?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by Keith on 6/11/2002 at 1:39:10 PM
It was also unecessary -- the Campy probably couyld have handled the bigger freewheel if the guy had backed out the dropout adjusting screws.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by smg on 6/10/2002 at 4:41:20 PM
Or you might put an internal-geared hub on it and turn it into a "club" bike. When life deals you lemons - make lemonade!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by Hallyx on 6/10/2002 at 5:45:06 PM
It may not be pretty; it may not be elegant, but you can install an adapter claw (bolt-on derailer hanger). Lots of old bikes have them (like my Dawes). Polish it up or paint it and no one will notice.

There's a special place in hell for people who desicrate perfectly good bicycles.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by Keith on 6/10/2002 at 6:00:48 PM
The droputs are forged carbon steel, and you could actually weld an extension -- but to avoid overheating the stays I'd braze one on instead. You could also get NOS dropouts and replace them -- they're out there, but then you'd need to repaint the stays. The bolt-on is probably the best choice. I've made several vintage lightweights into fixies -- that's a nice idea. But if the bike is complete and original save the rear derailleur and freewheel, then it might be better to make it whole again.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by Tim on 6/10/2002 at 7:17:11 PM
Hi Again:

Because I couldn't stand to see the Crescent in such pain (with that plastic Simplex derailleur), I have already found an old Nuovo Gran Sport rear derailleur, and put it on with a 'bolt-on' hanger. Sounds like this may be the best final outcome anyway - the bike looks okay (maybe I can paint the bolt-on hanger orange to match the bike)? Thanks for the guidance.

   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by Elvis on 6/10/2002 at 8:07:22 PM
Why would someone PUT ON a Simplex derailuer? The first thing I do if I get a bike from the 70s that happends to have one is REMOVE it and replace it with something more decent.
Does anyone out there understand this bizarre trend? Same goes for those who intentionally replace downtube shifters with cheap stem mounted shifters. Like Safey levers [yuck!] Simplex makes me wonder. The levers aren't bad, I guess.... but the derailuer -- why would someone want that on their bike? Is this the results of a top secret gov't experiment in mind control, or just the drugs in the 70's? [or were people just cheap back then?]

   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by John E on 6/10/2002 at 8:50:29 PM
What disgusts me most about this story is that, contrary to widely-held opinion, one can often hang the "wrong" derailleur on the dropout, without resorting to mayhem. (I put a SunTour Cyclone II on my 1980 Peugeot's Simplex dropout, and it works beautifully.)

   RE:Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by Mike Slater on 6/11/2002 at 1:23:51 AM
Tell ya what Elvis, Any of those pulled Simplex you can send my way!
Seriously, Several of my rides have various Simplex derailers- they all shift just fine. Including the Delrin one (on a 74 PX10LE) people seem to dislike. Other bikes have Campy, Suntour, Huret. All good!! I do disagree concerning the shifters. Most of the 70's Simplex shifters I use have a diameter that is smaller than other shifters - takes more movement to get to the next cog. I continue to use them because I love the look of the older ones that have a sun type of design with a "S" in the middle. It is not a detriment - you get used to it.

I guess people put them on because they work pretty good!!

   RE:RE:Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by Oscar on 6/11/2002 at 1:40:07 AM
My delrin Simplex worked flawlessly until it tragically ran itself into my spokes. Before that tragedy, my son swung a spade handle into the shifters. The Simplex are fine, just unlucky.

What's the difference between the white badged delrin ders and the red ones?

AGE / VALUE:   Der Hanger Chopped Off posted by: Tim on 6/10/2002 at 4:12:20 PM
Hi. I posted a little bit earlier about a lovely old Crescent 531 I picked up. I mentioned that the origial derailleur had been replaced. Well, this weekend I looked closer, and back in the 70's that horrible day that they replaced the Campy derailleur with a Simplex, they chopped off the hanger!

This bike is in beautiful original condition, with excellent paint, and even the orig old cloth bar tape. As my buddy pointed out, it has horizontal drop-outs - maybe it wants to become a track bike.

Any thoughts on the merits and cost of re-welding a hanger on such a bike?