This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Vintage Lightweights

FOR SALE:   Time To Thin Out The Herd... posted by: Fred A on 6/9/2002 at 3:26:48 PM
Okay, it's that time.........

If anyone lives on or near Long Island, NY, I'm going to be selling some bikes from my private stash. Come take a look. All are in excellent condition, ranging from Schwinn Varsitys & Continentals, Super Le Tour, Le Tour to a Peugeot 103, Fuji Del Ray and even a low end Italian Chiorda racing bike. Its gotten out of control and I'm out of room. I want to go through you guys first and avoid if I can ebay. I also want them to go to a good home where they'll be taken care of the way I have taken care of them. I'm not looking to retire on what I'll sell them for, but what's fair to both of us. If you're interested, please let me know.

Fred A

AGE / VALUE:   French parts posted by: Steven on 6/9/2002 at 2:01:05 PM
I have a bike fitted out with the early 80's Mavic SSC 1000 component group. When I originally got the group, it came with all the traditional bits, plus stem and handlebars. I came down in a group sprint back then and badly bent the bars and needed to replace them. The bars were therefore disposed of. As the stem uses standard British/Italian 22.2 mm headtube dimensions but a French bar diameter size (I believe it to be 25 mm), which were already hard to find back then, I simply switched the whole set-up to Italian bars and stems. I therefore now have an almost new Mavic 12 cm stem looking for bars. Would anybody have any Mavic bars for me? If you do, I would be interested in trading a set of NOS 38 cm (C/C) Cinelli Giro D'Italia bars (a set of used ones just went for $65 on E-bay.) They are the ones with the old style shield logo. I also have a French style braze-on mount Simplex touring front derailleur (It is made for a triple with up to a 30 tooth total gap) that I can trade. This too is from the early 80's. I know the Mavic bars are not that great, but I would like to have a 'complete' bike. If I can't find a set of bars, I may consider some other interesting trade for the stem.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I resisted the temptation posted by: Gralyn on 6/8/2002 at 2:30:25 AM
I'm getting better at this....I saw a Nishiki Sport today....only $16 - it was the same color as one I have set-up as fixed gear. However, this one was older. It had center pull brakes, 5-speed cassette,...and an old-looking fancy head badge. I think it was a 25" frame. The frame sticker was missing....probably 4130. But I didn't buy it. It was difficult not to. But I thought about it...and how I have plenty of bikes of this caliper. I think I am working on holding out for something really old, or something really different from anything I already have - and of course, someting really good...at a good price.

There was another bike there also...I can't remember - but it started with an "M"...and had a big "M" on the head badge. It wasn't Motobecane....(of course it wasn't Masi either) I wish I could remember. But it looked fairly equal component and quality-wise to the Nishiki. It was about $25...if it had been $16 I maybe would have bought it....just because it was something I didn't have.
But overall, I'm doing better....able to not buy every bike I see.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I resisted the temptation posted by Steven on 6/8/2002 at 5:18:21 AM
Mercier, Miyata, Magneet, Malvern Star, Manufrance, Maserati, Mercian, Marinoni, Merida, Mondia, Mongoosa, Moser, Murray, Moretti... Any sound familiar?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I resisted the temptation posted by Gralyn on 6/9/2002 at 3:53:49 AM
Actually, no. Possibly Merida...but maybe not. I may actually stop by there on Monday - and if it's still there - I will write it down....so I don't forget.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I resisted the temptation posted by Gralyn on 6/11/2002 at 1:59:11 AM
It was Mikado....never heard of it.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Patric Schils posted by: Richard on 6/8/2002 at 1:22:23 AM

This *gorgeous* Belgian road bike has been with me for over ten years and i love it to bits! When i found it in a junk shop in south-east London it was incomplete,remaining components were Gipiemme:Chainset,bottom-bracket,pedals,brakes,front- hub&rim,and drop-outs.Colour-opalescent white with electric- blue block-panels,SCHILS on the down tube,ASSE on the Head-stock(town in Belgium)Low serial number-6 or 9 depending on where you are!The only person thus far that has recognised this make was a dealer in London(De Ver Cycles,Norbury.),who told me that Patric Schils was a Belgian racer who later in his career set up in business as a frame-builder. The chap from De Ver himself had been a rider for this concern in the seventies and showed me photographs of himself riding a SCHILS on a banked Velodrome on the continent. So apart from that chance meeting and the sighting of a SCHILS trade sign at Beaulieu Auto-jumble(which i foolishly did not purchase)the trail has remained cold. Any further information will be gratefully digested.
In anticipation, i`m most grateful...
Best regards from Dartmoor,South Devon England.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Patric Schils posted by Steven on 6/8/2002 at 5:37:33 AM
It makes sense that you have purchased your 'Belgian' bike in Britain as Patrick Schils is based in Britain in the Exeter region. If I am not mistaken he imports Eddy Merckx frames, bikes and accessories. He still races in senior categories (40+ age category) I found one website that mentions him but am certain that others do too.

FOR SALE:   STAY COOL STAY WARM posted by: rickey@knowlesbicycle334-756-7561 on 6/7/2002 at 11:39:39 PM
Have an edge on the heat get your stay cool from knowles bicycle shop in valley ala. this product realy works get yours today 12.95 shipped send money order payable to knowles bicycle shop 500 n. hwy 29 valley ala.36854 many colors & assorted patterns aval. same day shipping in us. call 334-756-7561 1 DOZ. $100.00 shipped save 55.40 just add water stay cool


AGE / VALUE:   Crescent db 531 posted by: Tim on 6/7/2002 at 6:16:34 PM
Ooooh - I found a good one, I think. From a 'Buy&Sell' ad, a fellow selling the racing bike he bought second had when he was a teenager. It is a Crescent with 531 stays, fork & db tubes, in excellent original condition. The lugs are fancy, but overall construction and paint does not have have much finesse.

The componentry is great, except for one major let-down (read on) ... It has Wiennman 750 / Vainquer 999 brakes (why 2 names on the brakes?), Stronglight cottered cranks & allow rings, unidentified but nice pedals, Ideale 52 saddle, S. Maes bars (also says M Kint, A Shotte, V Steenhergen - again, why all the names?), fancy Luxe Titan stem, rim decals too worn to read.

Campagnolo components are: high flange hubs, shifters, skewers, and front derailleur. Now here's the heartbreak: when the owner was a teenager, he had his father put a wider ratio cogset on, at which time the derailleur was replace with a plastic Simplex :o(

Questions: Age? How do I determine from other Campy parts which derailleur it should have (is the front der model identifiable?). Value, assuming I find the right derailleur? Thanks for any feedback.

Oh yeah, I paid Cdn $70 (US$ 45). Tim.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Crescent db 531 posted by Keith on 6/7/2002 at 7:12:43 PM
You MUST to to this site for very nice photos of Crescents -- trust me on this. http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Sweden/crescent_ad_70's.htm Age: m I'd say early 70s and likely no later than mid-70s. If front cage is solid that helps to confirm. Almost no one was using Nervex Pros past the mid-70s, and chrome stays went out of style at about the same time. High flange Campy hubs were also more common in the early 70s. Also, if the Campy quick release skewers have flat handles it's early 70s.

   Crescent db 531 posted by John E on 6/7/2002 at 7:19:07 PM
Weinmann: Vainquer 999 is the model; 750 is the size

I think 1960s, particularly if the Campy front derailleur is a Gran Sport.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Crescent db 531 posted by Tim on 6/7/2002 at 8:30:28 PM
Hi again. Thanks for the tip on the old Crescent ads - it was a bit hard to concentrate on the bike at first (nice racing outfit on the rider) - the bike, as best I can tell, looks like the same model. So how do I know if the front derailleur is Grand Sport?

   Campy Gran Sport posted by John E on 6/8/2002 at 7:50:40 PM
The old Campy Gran Sport has a square body, and the cage is controlled by a horizontal push-rod, as on most old Simplex changers.

MISC:   Father's Day Story posted by: Keith on 6/7/2002 at 4:47:11 PM
Yesterday my daughter, Keara, presented me with the following story as an early Father's Day present. She's 8 years old, and loves to write stories. She told me that she wrote the story from the perspective of a younger child telling a fairy tale. The rust is poetic license. To make it vintage imagine a Teledyne Titan.


One sunny spring day, a man was looking for a nice bike that would fit him perfectly. So as he looked he saw many many bikes, but none of them suited him.

After a while of trying to find the right bike for himself, he found a very dusty rusty bike. He tried the bike out. It was perfect. It had Campagnolo parts and a titanium frame.

He could hardly believe his luck! After he fixed it up the bike was perfect and he and his bike lived happily ever after.


Moral of the Story: Some one's trash is another one's treasure.

I wish I could share the illustrations.

   RE:MISC:   Father's Day Story posted by Stacey on 6/7/2002 at 7:37:06 PM
Neat story, Keith. Thanks for sharing that with us! The coolest things come from the hearts of children.

   RE:MISC:   Father's Day Story posted by Art on 6/8/2002 at 1:48:10 AM
Keith, great story. Bikes are great tools for developing relationships with our children. Thanks for sharing. Art

   RE:RE:MISC:   Father's Day Story posted by Elvis on 6/9/2002 at 5:18:07 AM
I'll add my own 2 cents: It is great your child is interested in bicycles. But Let's hope she doesn't lose interest and continues being a bike person into abulthood. In my experience, riders are much nicer drivers when they get behind the wheel [unless overtly prevoked] because they are aware of cyclists. Kids who are into bikes also learn nechanical skills and respect for other cyclists -- a type of comraderie you do not usually see amoung drivers per se. Lastly, I find that cyclists are generally independently minded people and we could use more of these in this troubling world. Who was the author who said "Everytime I see an adult on a bicycle I no longer despair for the future of mankind?" I can't rmember but it fits. Stacey, you and your daughter keep riding!

   RE:Real Men? posted by Elvis on 6/9/2002 at 5:28:33 AM
I ride a bicycle. I'm sure we all do, if we're at this site. I've cycle bike riders who are anarchists and bike riders who are liberals. I've known cyclists with $1200 brand new lightspeeds and those whose favorite ride is a beat up Schwinn. I know a guy who rides BMX bikes and listens to punk and I know a chick who rides a mountain bike and listens to Sinatra. Cyclists are a diverse group. What allows us to relate to each other is our fascination and appreciation of bikes.
True, this site is supposed to be about bicycles -- but part of it is the appreciation of bicycles. The Story mentioned previously was about appreciation for bicycles seen thru a kids eyes.
If a guy like me who is an athiest and a libertarian can sit down and converse in person with another cyclist who happens to be a Catholic and another who's an anarchist, and not feel threatened by their different opinions, etc., why can't some people post to this board? Maybe Joe was just trying to be funny, but it came off as really rude. I hope he isn't like that when he rides. Come on, people. If you aren't interested in a post, skip over it and read the next topic. But let's not stoop to attacking each other. That isn't what this site is here for. It's here to talk about bikes, and love of bicycles is a part of that. If you don't want to read the story, skip it. Do something else. To Joe: Go ride a bike!

   RE:RE:Real Men? posted by Steven on 6/9/2002 at 1:59:09 PM
It's Sunday and a beautiful day where I am, let's all go ride a bike(s)!

   RE:JOE is a hipocrite posted by Elvis on 6/10/2002 at 5:10:55 AM
By the way, Joe's problem with the rest of us seems to be that he thinks we talk more about mushy stuff than bike stuff. Well, has he actually posted a message that has anything to do with bicycles yet?

P.S. - I have a bike question: Did Raliehg ever make a "Team" model that's red with a yellow head tube back in the day? I've got an old one from Nottingham, England. Cottered cranks, GB stem, says "Record" on the down tube and Team Raliehg" on the top tube. Also says team raliegh on the chainstays. No shift levers put from the marks it looked like it had clanp-on downtube friction shift levers. Wienmann center-pulls. The lugs are rather plain, not the fancier kind found on Gran Prix's and other low end raliegh's from the same period. What confuses me here is that the bike seems to have basic decent but not fancy parts -- yet thge paint scheme suggests it was a "team" model. Did Raliegh ever build any such bike on the record frame? Also, all the Raliegh's I've seen and owned have had the word Raliegh" on the downtube, and the model name on top. And I've never seen "team Raliegh" on a seatstay before. Any ideas what the bike is?

   RE:RE:JOE is a hipocrite posted by Steven on 6/10/2002 at 6:26:11 AM
Elvis, Raleigh's (please note that the 'e' comes before the 'i') pro team was very successful for many years and therefore the team colours were used in numerous markets to improve sales results. It could be that your bike was an import from some country in Europe that sold different models. What size tyres does it have?

   RE:RE:RE:JOE is a hipocrite posted by Wings on 6/10/2002 at 7:21:01 AM
Keith -- I thought your post regarding what your daughter wrote was great! In her story I think she captured her Dad and his love for bikes and his daughter. That is great!

To Everyone -- I think you (we) have been baited by Joe. In my opinion Joe wants a reaction to his post and that is why he posted it -- many of you gave it to him by biting on his bait. The best reaction for Joe (and imature types like him) is no reaction at all. Don't bite!!! He should be ignored until he reaches a level of maturity that allows him to communicate in the Discussion Area with others.

To Joe --

   RE:RE:RE:Team Raleigh? posted by Elvis on 6/10/2002 at 1:41:25 PM
Thanks. Tire size? It's for 27 inch wheels, but when I found it had no wheels on it. Tire size? 27", but as to width I've no idea. Brake levers are mismatched. One is a Wienmann with a hood over the brake lever the other is a later version apparently offa 60s or 70s bike with the safety lever removed, but the tell-tale protrusion on the inside where it was mounted. The Front fork is all red, no half-chrome. Older style "nottingham england" head tube badge. Nervar steel cottered cranks. The "Retro Raleighs" site says they made a team bike w/ red and yellow and black [the colors on this frame] but the one they talk about is from the 70's. This appears older. Certainly they didn't use cottered cranks in the 70's! [at least I hope not!] PS -- bottom of BB has a number [serial number?] "WD* 00 6/57" [the * is an illegible digit, too worn] Except for some minor wear the frame paint is in okay shape. Could the 6/57 part be a year, like when it was made?

   RE: Lotus? posted by Elvis on 6/10/2002 at 1:44:11 PM
Hi all.
Goin' over some of my older bikes trying to decode which to donate and which to keep. I've an old bike that's marked "tour de france" on the top tube and has an M cut into the crowns of the works. I'm wondering, was the "tour" model at the bottom or middle end of Moto's spectrum? This bike is really old, Huret shifters, Nervar cranks, etc.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Or borrow from that retirement fund that's losing money anyway . . . posted by: Keith on 6/7/2002 at 4:18:09 PM
Or, if your taste is for Italian steel, a nice Masi: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2108414418

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Or borrow from that retirement fund that's losing money anyway . . . posted by Oscar on 6/8/2002 at 6:01:35 PM
I generally suggest that you roll over losing retirement funds into a flexible premium deferred annuity. You'll be guaranteed 5.25% in the first year, and the best companies will continue to pay the same interest rate in continuing years. It's liquid, won't lose principal or interest (guaranteed), and the gains are tax deferred.

But they don't look as good or ride as well as a prinsine Masi. The flesh is weak.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Or borrow from that retirement fund that's losing money anyway . . . posted by Jim V on 6/8/2002 at 8:39:23 PM
The 1959 Olmo with original finish sold on eBay June 2nd for $1648. If my guess that it cost $150 new is close, then the annual return over 43 years was about 5.75%. My hat's off to the seller, who maintained his bike so well for so many years.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Time to cash in that life insurance . . . posted by: Keith on 6/7/2002 at 4:15:59 PM
Here's a fun Hetchins Magnum Opus: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2108277056

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Time to cash in that life insurance . . . posted by Steven on 6/8/2002 at 5:42:31 AM
I can appreciate the lovely lug work on certain British bikes but have never understood the 'curly' Hetchins. Is being different for the sake of being different really that great? To me this is not workmanship like the lugwork, solely showmanship. Any other comments? I would personally far prefer the Masi listed above.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Time to cash in that life insurance . . . posted by Oscar on 6/8/2002 at 6:07:28 PM
There are two ways to cash in a life insurance policy. The first is to withdraw the cash value and wind up being taxed on the investment portion of your earnings. The other is to die. Neither is a good move.

The paint scheme is better than the lugs, I think. I agree with Steven that the curly lugs are overboard. Just my opinion, and certainly not that of the guy who bought it for well over $2000.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Time to cash in that life insurance . . . posted by Steven on 6/9/2002 at 1:56:16 PM
He didn't even buy it! The price didn't even meet the reserve. As the bike is a newish one(by Hetchins standards)the seat tube stripes may even be transfers, whereas the head tube is definitely painted. The lug lines too. I believe that Hetchins are a bit like the Porsche bike of a few weeks ago: more show than go.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Time to cash in that life insurance . . . posted by Keith on 6/10/2002 at 1:47:10 PM
If I had to choose between the two I'd also go with the Masi. To me the Hetchins is kind of representative of British over the top design. Still, if I had room and unlimited funds, I'd probably want one as a curiosity.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Time to cash in that life insurance . . . posted by Oscar on 6/10/2002 at 4:50:15 PM
Agreed. The Hetchins is eye-candy, and when I need a fix, my local lbs has one for sale (expensively, so it'll be there for a while). I also see a commuter riding his Masi down Dodge Street every day around 7:30am.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by: Raymond Pau on 6/6/2002 at 6:02:37 PM
I just got an old Raleigh and I am trying to find its date info.

The number under the bottom bracket is RA5 31122. I am guessing it's the serial number of the frame.

I've looked all over for the interpretation of the serial number but have not been able to find the required information. The closest I've come to find is the serial number that look like "WA5 12345".

The bike has Heinmann (750 or 730?) Side-pull brakes, Sakae stem and handlebars.

Any help is appreciated.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Raymond Pau on 6/6/2002 at 6:20:46 PM
err ... sorry not Heinmann, Weinmann.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Keith on 6/6/2002 at 7:02:11 PM
The Grand Prix was the next-to-bottom road bike, above the Record. Go to the retro-Raleigh site - sorry I don't have the adress -- and look at their catelogs to peg the year based on the components and/or paint, lug design, etc. If the Sakae bits are original, it sounds mid-to late 70s to me. Check the headbadge -- does it say Nottingham England?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Raymond Pau on 6/6/2002 at 7:49:51 PM
Yes, the head badge does indeed say Nottingham England.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Keith on 6/6/2002 at 8:16:49 PM
Okay -- then it's pre-Japanese, and likely mid to late-70s Here's the Retro Raleigh address: http://www.speakeasy.org/'tabula/raleigh/

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Tim on 6/6/2002 at 8:35:27 PM
I don't think that you have a valuable bike in the Grand Prix. I have a Nottingham-built, full double-butted 531 Raleigh Competition in beautiful condition (a much higher model) with high-end Japanese components, and it's value is only moderate (US $200-$300?). For the truly collectible Raleigh's, you have to get into the Professional or Team Issue with Campagnolo components. There are simply too many old Raliegh 10 speeds still around.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Raymond Pau on 6/6/2002 at 8:55:57 PM
Thank you for your info.

I think I'll just fix the bike to be rideable then.

I obtained the bike from my colleague's garage in the form of parts. I have just completed cleaning the bike and about to buy missing parts now.

Thanks again for your info.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Don H. on 6/7/2002 at 1:28:09 AM
Agree on the late 70's date as I had a 78 Super Grand Prix (has a tour de France team champion 77 sticker on down tube) & I bought it at a thrift store for $10.00, stripped off the raleigh barcons, cranks & weinmann centerpulls, & leather french saddle,then built it back up with down tube shifters & dia compe brakes, sold for $25.00.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Keith on 6/7/2002 at 2:05:46 PM
Ditto -- the Raleigh barcons are of course the well-known Suntours -- great parts. I picked up a Deluxe as you describe just for the shifters, and gave the rest to a tall neighbor of mine since it was too big for me.

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn -- cyclecross bike? posted by: Elvis on 6/6/2002 at 4:49:51 PM
Hi all. First, I wanted to say thanks for all the responses to earlier posts on an old Dawes I found.
Today I picked up what looks like s cyclecross bike -- by Schwinn. It's gotta be somewhat new cause it's light, has virtical dropouts, and the frame is drilled for water bottle mounts on seat tube and downtube. The bike is black with a Silver star on a red cicle headbadge held on by screws. It says ScrissCross on the top tube in blue and green and Schwinn on the downtube in green. Cantilever brake posts on rear triangle. No fork, BB or bearing cups. Small dent on left side of downtube. Any idea if it's worht fixing up? I've pretty much got all the parts 'cept cantis, but I've never owned a cross bike before. Any idea if Schwinn made one, and where it falls int he spectrum? Water bottle holes are reinforced by little metal diamonds and the seat tube has a picture of the earth and says USA on the side in blue. It is a lugged frame, not welded. Never seen one like this before!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn -- cyclecross bike? posted by Keith on 6/6/2002 at 6:23:09 PM
You guys are gonna think I'm nuts, because I've said this a lot, but I had one of these too -- I went though a phase about 5-6 years ago when I'd buy any road bike I found at a garage sale for $5-20, and at least get my money out of the parts. The Criss-Cross was NOT a cyclocross bike, as the name may seem to suggest, but a "hybrid" or "cross" between a mountain bike and a road bike. Mine had the same droputs and brazons, and brazeons for racks. As I recall it was LUGGED chromoly -- right? It was designed for 700c wheels (I put them on my wife's bike, along with the triple crank and drivetrain). Worth fixing up -- not really, unless you happen to have the parts lying around or get them just as cheaply. With drop bars it could be made into a nice faux cyclocross bike, or a touring machine. I don't think anyone but Trek ever made a "high-end" hybrid bike, so it would not have been high in the Schwinn line.

AGE / VALUE:   PARAMOUNT VALUE posted by: Kevin K on 6/6/2002 at 11:49:55 AM
Hi. A local bike shop has had a white 1973 Paramount for sale for several years. It is 100% original and nice. All Campy pieces in place. Asking price was $1000 and I was told it was pretty firm. The other day I happened to notice a sold tag on it. The Paramount sold for $500. I do not follow Paramount values very closely but is $500 about the going rate for an original 70's Paramount or was this a good buy ? Thanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   PARAMOUNT VALUE posted by Gralyn on 6/6/2002 at 3:49:48 PM
Check on e-bay. I think that's about right, though.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   PARAMOUNT VALUE posted by Keith on 6/6/2002 at 6:13:07 PM
Go to sheldonbrown.com and look at Michael Kone's "Wild Guesses" at values for vintage lightweights. Read the intro -- it's illuminating. In a nutshell, there's a buyer out there who would have paid $1000, perhaps, but how many people are dying to buy a 1973 Schwinn Paramount? (And I believe 1973 was a peak production year.) There are collectors out there for whom money is no object, but they aren't looking for graden variety Paramounts for the most part -- rather prime year Italian Cinellis, Masis, De Rosas, or British makers like Hetchins, or French makers like Alex Singer. Still, it was a beautifully made and historically significant bike, silver-brazed with nicely finished chrome Nervex Pro lugs. If it's clean and original I think $500 is a fair and realistic price for a bike shop to move it along and get some cash. I think Kone pegs the price higher, maybe $750 or $800, but remember that's a wild guess. That would be for the P-13 racing model. The P-15 touring model goes for less. Also go to the Waterford site for some history.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   PARAMOUNT VALUE posted by Maurice on 6/7/2002 at 2:28:40 AM
Let's don't forget the Full Chrome Paramounts that were offered through 1972 - I'd say at least $1,000 would be a fair price.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tour Anglais posted by: C. Roberts on 6/6/2002 at 1:35:36 AM
Hi, has anyone ever heard of a 'Tour Anglais'?
I have an old racing style bike and was wondering the history about it.
It has a single front 5 spd Huret, bracket for lamp on front fork and leather saddle.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tour Anglais posted by C. Roberts on 6/6/2002 at 1:40:33 AM
That was a 'Elswick' Tour Anglais

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Tour Anglais posted by josh on 6/6/2002 at 2:04:20 AM
hey i dont know anything as far as value,but i did find a really cool story about them.it tells about what happened to the company at the end.http://sheldonbrown.org/elswick.html

AGE / VALUE:   raleigh posted by: josh on 6/5/2002 at 6:06:40 PM
my freind is thinking of buying this bike.im tryin to learn more about it first.its made in the usa,i dont know where tolook for the serial #,but i found a # under the bottom bracket that is R8********,shimano light action derailers,460 tubing,sakae sa crank,themal bonded heat treated aluminun frame,grey/silver with purple head badge,red/blonde decals,says technium on the frame.is this the model?the bike looks almost brand new.the guy is asking $125,is this worth it?ok so basically i'd like to know when this bike was built,what did it originally sell for and the model.thanks in advance.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   raleigh posted by Stacey on 6/5/2002 at 6:35:00 PM
Hiya Josh! I'm sure there are those who will disagree with me on this, but I don't think you can get more bang for your buck than with a Raleigh Technium. I had a Technium 440, a beautiful two tone blue (baby & saphire) metallic, that I bought new in the early to mid 80's and if this old addled mind of mine remembers correctly I paid somewhere around $400 +/- for mine. You say the one under consideration is a a 460... probably a couple of years later and I'll bet a 12 speed too, right? The bike should have alloy wheels with front & rear Q/R hubs, alloy seat post and bars and fairly decent brakes. At a 'C' note this would be a good buy. Have your friend ride it... if it fits and everything works the way it should then take that puppy home. I would!

In the wind,

PS - Let us know how it goes, eh?

AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Made in france bike, ever herd of it? posted by: Brian B. on 6/5/2002 at 5:56:55 PM
Well hello, I just picked up a nice all orig, Motobecane (made in France) Bicycle from a thrift store. The bicycle seems very light & rides great! I have never herd of a Motobecane bicycle before? Has anyone in this group ever had or seen this model? Is it a good bicycle? looks like its from the 70s. Please post all replies. thanks, Bri.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Made in france bike, ever herd of it? posted by Jacob on 6/6/2002 at 9:42:25 AM
One of my daily riders is a Motobecane Nomade, and it's a nice bike - though it's low-end. I especially like the internal welding of the lugs - it gives the bike a very elegant appereance. This one is eguipped with a 1982 Sturmey Archer 5 speed hub (I find it trouble-free). It is red with blue "leather" on the handlebar, blue saddle and blue Bluemels mudguards - great!

By the way: Next week I'm taking this bike with me in the trailer to the 24 hours car race at Le Mans in France, and then I will enjoy some hopefully pleasant rides in the countryside, when I'm not at the curbe following danish Audi-driver Tom Kristensen going for his third win at a row.
Me on a french bike on a french countryroad - I kind of like it!

Jacob in Denmark

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Made in france bike, ever herd of it? posted by Walter on 6/6/2002 at 2:55:26 PM
I have a soft spot for Motos as my first "real" bike was one, a Nomade in fact Jacob.

Moto imported a full-range to the US and I agree with others who point out that in regards to workmanship and paint they're better than most of their competitors and alot better than Peugeots.

Bottom liners tended to have Huret changers and no-name cranks pantographed with Motobecane on the arms. Middle-liners like Jubilees and Grand Jubilees often ran very smooth Suntour gears and at the top of the line a bike like a Team Champion would have Campy NR shifters and a Stronglight crank. MOtos almost always sell on eBay if they're clean. Anywhere from 75$ for something like a Mirage and I've seen "Team" models, clean and original get $300.

Motobecane still exists as MBK as has been pointed out, however the new and modern aluminum framed Motos are an Asian company that bought rights to the name. If you're looking modern I hear they are a great bargain at current prices. They also sell a steel Mirage for about $400 that even has downtube shifters.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Made in france bike, ever herd of it? posted by Keith on 6/6/2002 at 6:02:34 PM
Oops by me too -- Festina -- the team - has been defunct for some time. I meant Cofidis. I also own a 531 db Campy NR-equiped 1975 Motobecane Grand Record. I think it's a good vintage road bike, and has signmificantly better workmanship than Peugeot (I have two Peugeots) -- very clean brazing, clean edges on the lugs, although not thinned or finished in any way. Still, I wouldn't call it outstanding. This Grand Record has nice ride, but it's really a sports-touring machine -- a soft, stable and comfortable ride that's perfect for moderate-paced longer outings -- a great century machine. Geometry-wise somewhere between a true racing bike and an Audax bike like the Raleigh International. I'm not sure how low-end Motos would be much lighter than similar models of European bikes in the 70s. There's only so much you can do with plain steel.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Made in france bike, ever herd of it? posted by Keith on 6/5/2002 at 6:14:13 PM
Here you go: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/Motobecane_Hm.htm Moto was a large manufacturer of mopeds and bikes. It had a range of models roughly similar to Peugeot -- some low and, some high end, and in between. So, whether it's a good bike depends on the model and the condition. Sheldonbrown.com also contains Michael Kone's revised list of vintage lightweights with "wild guesses" of value -- it includes Moto. Motobecane still exists and sells bikes under the MBK mark. The MBK bikes are still ridden by some top teams on the European Peloton, including, I believe, Festina.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Made in france bike, ever herd of it? posted by ken on 6/5/2002 at 9:23:24 PM
Keith is right, Motobecane made low- and higher-end 'racers'. Probably no value due to rarity or cachet; if it'sa rider, the value is in its usefulness, and a light bike is always a pleasure. A bike can be repaired, but the heavy ones don't generally get much lighter. You might want to see if it takes 9/16 pedals, oui?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Made in france bike, ever herd of it? posted by Alex on 6/5/2002 at 9:34:13 PM
Motobecane bikes are Excellent bikes! Even the lower end models are much lighter & nicer then most 70s bikes. I have seen even the lower end models sell for $150.00 & more on ebay. Great bicycles.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Made in france bike, ever herd of it? posted by Wings on 6/6/2002 at 6:06:01 AM
I agree with Alex!
I like Motobecane better than any bike out there. Solid bike that has an outstanding feel. I test ride lots of bikes and when I test a Moto I do not want to let it go!!!
Some of the color patterns are great. I especially like the black and red color combination that is trimmed in gold. I just like them!

   Motobecane posted by Elvis on 6/10/2002 at 8:19:33 PM
Hi all. I guess I must have 3 Motobecanes. One's a Jubilee from the 1980's, internally welded lugs and nervar aluminum cranks. Cool thing is the chainrings are drilled with a hole below the space between the teeth. I dunno why. It looks cool, though, and whoever drilled it was careful not to break anything. This bike is light as heck and rides like its got wings. I also just picked up a 10 speed Nomade. It looks like a low-end 70s bike, but it was my size so I took it. Haven't ridden it yet. The third is an old, old bike. Steel cottered cranks, Huret derailuer. "M" cut into fork caps. It's labelled "tour de france" and rides pretty good for a bike that's probably twice if not 3 times older than I am. In terms of Durability, Motos last. Only problem, as with most french bikes, is finding parts in my stash that'll fit em. Most sizes [handlebar stems, peddles, etc.] are different for French bikes. But aside from that they make great fun rides.