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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Tri Wheeler Town & County with 3 Speed Shift Control posted by: Mike on 7/31/2002 at 5:34:45 PM
I have a Schwinn Tri Wheeler Town And Country with 3 speed control. Do you know how much it may be worth?



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Tri Wheeler Town & County with 3 Speed Shift Control posted by Oscar on 8/1/2002 at 3:35:54 PM
Usually over $100 in working condition. I'd be hard to say what the top price might be for a pristine example.

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Tempo posted by: MS on 7/31/2002 at 1:50:49 PM
I just picked up a nice Schwinn Tempo with a Shimano 105 group & SIS. From the looks of it, I'd guess it's from the late '80s. Anyone know for sure? I'm guessing this was a sport or triathalon bike. BTW - has the Chicago head badge but no made in Taiwan decal. 2 other Schwinns (Giants) I own from the mid '80's have made in Taiwan decals. Any info about the bike would be appreciated. Thanks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Tempo posted by Kevin K on 7/31/2002 at 2:16:46 PM
Hi. Your Schwinn Tempo is third in line in my 1984 catalog. First is the Paramount, next Super Sport then the Tempo. Nice bike. I can't tell from catalog description if it's a 105 group as they simply call it the new Shimano Z components group. What tubing is the bike built from ? Enjoy, Kevin K

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Tempo posted by Bryant on 7/31/2002 at 3:10:16 PM
Did your Tempo come with Biopace rings?? A friend of mine picked one up with the same componentry but his came with Biopace rings. That marks it at about 1986-87.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Tempo posted by MS on 8/1/2002 at 12:35:49 PM
The bike is made of Columbus Tenax which was a low end Columbus tube. No Biopace rings but it does have SIS. Serial number begins with a J 6 - October 1986? The J and the 6 are separated by about 1/4". Not sure where it was made.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Tempo posted by Keith on 8/1/2002 at 3:01:30 PM
I had a Super Sport from that era, with full Shimano 600 dt index shifting -- $40 garage sale -- got it for the 600 parts. It was also Tenax. It had "made in Japan somewhere on the bike -- can't remember where. The bottom bracket shell was cracked -- I recall reading on this site soon after it started that some Schwinn models the Japanese bikes of this era had that problem.

AGE / VALUE:   My method of crank pin removal posted by: Grant Hubick on 7/30/2002 at 9:41:27 PM
This method has never failed me.Plus there is no chance to damage anything.
Gather enough washers of a size that will fit over the head of the pin,[what you are making is a heavy sleeve]stack enough together that the head of the pin is recessed.
Remove the nut and washer,heavily lube,reinstall the nut so it is flush with the end of the pin,this prevents damage to the threads.
Now,with the stacked washers in place, position crackarm and stacked washers in a bench vice. You are trying to push the pin through the sleeve.Normally it take a fair amount of force,with a sharp crack as it releases.
Once the pin is loose tap it out.
It,s alot easier to show than tell.If you see it it's simple.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by: Mike on 7/30/2002 at 6:32:10 PM
What a nice site! Questions relating to the Bottecchia, which is a well-documented (air mail letter from the factory in Italy), original owner (bike shop employee), unmodified white gem. Big frame (25 1/2), all Campy Nuovo Record, Cinelli bars and stem, Nisi gold tubular rims and a BUNCH of old tubulars and spares/tools out the wazzoo. My question concerns the old tubulars, many of which were never used. Back in the day I remember brushing liquid latex (then called "tire life") on them as a preservative. most of the tires have been stretched on rims or have simply been kept in cool, mostly conditions. I am putting this bicycle back on the road and wonder about your experiences with "vintage tubulars". Will they just blow up from age under high pressure or ???!!! The ones I have were the brands of their day- D'Allessandro, Wolber, Barum, Continental, Michelin, Vittoria, and Clement. Besides cleaning up the rims and gluing a set on, what other worries might I have? I'll be back at this site in the future!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by Keith on 7/30/2002 at 6:56:26 PM
My experience with old tubies is limited but uniformly bad. I recall covering them with powder and keeping them in my closet -- so yeah storage is important, but 30 year!. I'd say you'd be taking a risk. Okay, I've used plenty of old clinchers -- but they are lower pressure, and they don't seem to last long either. Good new tubulars are available from most catelogs, and I'd save the oldies for display at 50 or so psi. Maybe, just maybe, silk is an exception. I'd ask Michael Kone and/or the Classic Rendezvous mail list. BTW, I have the same bike,albeit with some non-original parts, 60cm/ or 23 & 1/2". Very nice ride.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by Keith on 7/30/2002 at 7:29:12 PM
P.S. Since your example is clean and original, please take send a photo to Classic Renzezvous -- the only example of a Bottecchia they have is a variation of Mike Buroughs' Lotus pursuit bike. Not very classic or even Italian-looking.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by Mike on 7/30/2002 at 9:02:25 PM
thanks, Keith. i have mostly silks and some cottons in there. since i am a newbie here, i know nothing about Classic Rendezvous. also, no digital pix immediately available though that could change. could you help me with more info about that site? nice that there's another one around. got any idea on the bike's worth? all original in wonderful, ridden on club rides shape. i imagine there must be SOME market for something so old and nice.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by Keith on 7/31/2002 at 12:17:09 AM
Go to www.classicrendezvous.com and follow the liks to Bottecchia. Also go to the link to the email group
but be ready for 25 or more emails a day). The vintage lightweight heavyweights (ha ha!) haunt that group -- Sachs, Kone, etc. Two old tubies went on me they got snake bulges and then blew -- one rather suddenly, one after a few 100 miles. But we're talking a small sample (2 old cotton Clements).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by Keith on 7/31/2002 at 12:17:48 AM
Go to www.classicrendezvous.com and follow the liks to Bottecchia. Also go to the link to the email group
but be ready for 25 or more emails a day). The vintage lightweight heavyweights (ha ha!) haunt that group -- Sachs, Kone, etc. Two old tubies went on me they got snake bulges and then blew -- one rather suddenly, one after a few 100 miles. But we're talking a small sample (2 old cotton Clements).

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by Mike on 7/31/2002 at 12:38:43 PM
I am trying to sign up to subscribe at the site but am experiencing problems so far. I hope the administrator there, Dale, takes care of it for me. I am hoping to get some help, trying to know what solvent or method to use in removing old, hard, attached, Bailey III padded handlebar tape residue (the bars are COVERED with it) that remains after I tried to remove and replace it. Got to get it off of there without damaging the handlebars.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by David on 7/31/2002 at 7:31:20 PM
Warming the bars might help (not too much!) and different solvents (outdoors!) might get the goo off. I'd try, in order from bad to worse; denatured alcohol, paint thinner, acetone, lacquer thinner.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   70s Bottecchia Professional posted by Hallyx on 7/31/2002 at 11:23:13 PM
That's about the way I'd go, Kevin...but only after trying Goo-Gone and/or WD-40, worked in with ScotchBrite or a wire brush. Then finish it off with 200 grit wet-or-dry then Scotchbrite it smooth...lengthwise only. That ought to remove all the stickum as well as any stress risers.

That's the way we used to treat used/worn aluminum tubes in my Ultralite shop.

AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by: gam on 7/30/2002 at 2:00:50 PM
I have adopted a 10 speed somewhat light (27 1/2#) touring Garage Sale orphan with a very attractive paint job. I assumed it was a 'put together' bike because of the paint job, the round SCHWINN Chicago head tube medallion (painted over), the GIANT head stem and 'no name' side pull brakes, Weinmann-type brake levers and Dia Compe-type brake lever extentions. Differing derailers were Shimano RS on rear and Shimano FE on front.. 27 x 1 ¼ wheels: one 'no name' and the other FEMCO. Original (?) SCHWINN rubber (made in Taiwan). 7" Silstar cranks.

The paint job was black with gold 'stripping' on the edge of the lugs, which were simple, but quite unusual to a novice like me. No decals apparent.

I have since researched some numbers and am quite confused: Chicago round medallion has 60639 without any Letters. Punched following is "3342". The Right Rear drop out is stamped G1182; the Left Rear drop out is Stamped 24647, preceded by a Punched "33". I conclude this was built by GIANT in November of 1982.

The head tube lug is Stamped "59" on the left bottom and Stamped "ES" on the right bottom. The "S" is styilized as a trade mark, so I am not sure.

I looked at a friend's 1980 World Sport with round SCHWINN medallion with Made in Taiwan Punched "0190" and G0180 Stamped on the Right Rear drop out. His decals were Schwinn Extra Lite Bicycles, World Sport, SCHWINN and Schwinn Approved. 27 x 1 ¼ FEMCO wheels, original rubber different from mine. Center pull SCHWINN Appproved brakes, Schwinn brake levers with extentions. Matched (?) Shimano derailers. Cranks were 7" Silstar, but apparently newer or at least more streamlined than mine. His Owners manual indicate his is a Model W5.

My 1982 bike's add ons seem older than his 1980. Why does my newer bike have a Chicago Medallion?? What is the signifigance of the stamps on the head tube lug??. Did GIANT have Chicago frames without the Chain Stays and subsequently dated them when the stays were added?



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Keith on 7/30/2002 at 2:53:21 PM
To my knowledge, the ONLY lugged frames made in Chicago were the Paramounts, and there was no facility in Chicago to mass produce anything other than electro-forged frames. I think even the Superior was Japanese. I wouldn't read too much into the position of stickers, numbers, and the like. I too have had World Sports with Chicago in the head badge. I think by then it just meant Schwinn was headquartered in Chicago. I'm confident Giant made every part of these frames. I've never read anything in the standard literature (No Hands, the Pridmore & Hurd Schwinn book, etc.,) or internet lore that suggest otherwise, and I can't think of a practical reason Schwinn would braze part of a frame, ship it to Taiwan, and have the rest brazed there. Sounds expensive to me. (Although it is true that mass produced lugged frames, like the mid-80s Treks, had one station build the main triangle, and another add the srays, but this was done at the same plant).

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by gam on 7/30/2002 at 4:26:12 PM
I concurr it was made in Taiwan by Giant, but Giant was using Taiwan/Schwinn head badges in 1980 (my friends World Sport) so why do I have a Chicago hb in 1982?

The lugs (which are NOT Art Deco re the Paramounts) were made separately from the tubes....my friends 1980 has NO markings on the similar Head tube lug.

I read in my initial research, Chicago BEGAN making (other than Paramounts) lugged frames in 1979, but quit by 198xxxx.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Keith on 7/30/2002 at 4:59:49 PM
The Paramount operation in Chicago was closed in 1979, and Schwinn did not make Paramounts again until the shop in Waterford Wisconsin started production in, I believe, in 1981. The "Art Deco" kugs you refer to are Nervex Pros, which Schwinn imported, and yes, they were made by Nervex -- not unusual as the same lugs were found on top-end models of numerous bicycle manufacturers. Schwinn also imported the Reynolds 531 tubing for the Chicago Paranmounts. Nervex Pros were out of style by the time he Waterford shop was making Paramounts, and plain lugs appear on its Paramounts. Waterford used U.S.-made oversized True Temper tubing, and other tube sets as well. Schwinn also openned it's ill-fated plant in Greenville, Missisippi plant during this period, and lugged frames were made there for a brief period. Schwinn announced the shutdown of the Chicago plant in 1981. By 1986, Giant was producing 80% of Schwinn's bikes. Most of this is from Pridmore & Hurd, and some is from the Waterford site.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Gralyn on 7/30/2002 at 5:35:46 PM
I have had several Schwinns. Some of them...the head badge says Schwinn Chicago...which, as you say basically represents that they are headquartered in Chicago...and, in addition, the bike has a sticker that says made in Tiawan, etc. for Schwinn. So, I know it's not made in USA. But I have a couple of Travelers - 1986 and 1987 - which have a sticker that says made in USA. So, do you think my bikes were not made in USA?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Keith on 7/30/2002 at 6:58:23 PM
They would have been made in Greenville Mississippi, not Chicago, which was shut down well before '86-'87.

      SCHWINN World Sport / Greenville posted by John E on 7/31/2002 at 1:12:44 AM
In the 1980s, Greenville resurrected the old early 1960s MYxxxx serial numbering system, with a single digit for the year. Thus, my KOM-10 (mountain bike with plain-lugged Tange Prestige II frame), S/N F804069, was made in June 1988.

   RE:   SCHWINN World Sport / Greenville posted by Kevin K on 7/31/2002 at 2:45:22 AM
Hi all. Alot of discussion here about the lugged frame Schwinn bikes and as to the origin of their build. That said I've a 1979 Letour. I bought it from a friend that saved every item from the transaction when he purchased it new. The manuals provided show the frame was torch brazed. The manual shows the frame tubes/lugs in a jig for the brazing process. Schwinn in fact was very proud of this as many manufactures used lesser quality means to build their lugged frames ( heating the entire frames in ovens to over 1700 degrees v just the lug and the use of salt solutions ). The decal on the bike frame further documents this. Now the question is: Could this be a Chicago built frame ? Were the USA built Letour frames of possibly a 3-4 year time span ( late 70's to early 80's )brazed/built in Chicago before the operation was moved south to the Greenville plant ? I've a 1984 Letour Luxe. The manuals nor decals on the bike point twards Chicago as origin of build. I really enjoy the Schwinn lightweight line of road bikes. I think for a long time they were over looked as" not cool ". I hope that changes and these nice, durable pieces of both Schwinn and American history stop ending up in dumpsters. My 2 cents. Kevin K

   RE:RE:   SCHWINN World Sport / Greenville posted by Oscar on 7/31/2002 at 5:10:27 AM
From what I read in "No Hands..." Schwinn made a token amount of lugged frames in Chicago and Greenville, but the vast majority of Schwinn lugged frames were made in Japan and Taiwan. I see quite a few Schwinn Quality Chicago headbadges out there. I used to assume those Chicago badges were the USA made ones, but I see so many of them, I wonder if they were really Asian.

I must reread No Hands. I borrowed it from the library and read it 3 years ago. I have fuzzy recollections of big quality control problems in making the US lugged frames. Anyone seen my library card?

   RE:RE:RE:   SCHWINN World Sport / Greenville posted by Kevin K on 7/31/2002 at 11:50:16 AM
Hi all. I agree you can not tell where the bike frame was built simply by the headbadge I.D. Dealer info is needed. I've had 3 World Sport frames. Main tubes were 4130. Nice enough for daily beaters, but I didn't feel they were collectors. The Letour IV I described earlier was made of 1020 tubing. Heavy stuff. However bike condition and origin, at least to myself, justified $$$$$$$$$ spent. A book on Schwinn Lightweights is in the making. Let's hope it has info on where some of the company chose to manufacture and why. Enjoy, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Keith on 7/31/2002 at 2:56:36 PM
I still honestly don't think LeTours were ever made in Chicago -- appearance of "Chicago" on the frame or literature doesn't convince me otherwise. By the late 70s, Schwinn was trading on its name, and its name was closely linked with Chicago. I'm not surprised that Schwinn would intentionaly downplay that its lugged bikes were made in Asia by hinting, though not stating outright, a link with Chicago.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Ray on 7/31/2002 at 3:03:23 PM
I have seen Schwinn lightweights with Chicago head tube badges on frames with Japan and Taiwan stickers. Head tube badge is no guarantee of manufacturing site. Probably used up the inventory that was already laying around as a cost savings.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Ray on 7/31/2002 at 3:04:13 PM
I have seen Schwinn lightweights with Chicago head tube badges on frames with Japan and Taiwan stickers. Head tube badge is no guarantee of manufacturing site. Probably used up the inventory that was already laying around as a cost savings.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Kevin K on 7/31/2002 at 8:06:18 PM
Hi again to all. While still not an expert on the subject I keep researching it. I agree that several models of the Letour were built overseas. Be it Japan or whereever. The lugs and build are obvious. One clue to this is components. Most oversears built Letours carried Japanese components. The 79 Letour IV has both European and Japanese components. Same with the Letour Luxe. Pedals, hubs and wheelset were Eourpean on the Letour Luxe.I've no doubt the Letour IV was a USA built frame. Factory manuals/owners manuals document it. I've never used the headtube badge to I.D. origin of manufacture. Factory manuals. Others also have traced the origin of these bikes and documented it. So to each his own. No matter where they are built, or by whom or when they are nice bikes with a great ride. Enjoy and keep the old roadbike hobby strong. Kevin K

   SCHWINN World Sport -- country of origin posted by John E on 8/1/2002 at 1:14:32 AM
I think one can distinguish American-made from Asian-made Schwinn frames according to the serial number format. Except for some of the Paramounts and tandems, the American frames always had either one letter (A-M, except I) followed by digits (Chicago 1959-64; Greenville 1980s) or two letters (first one again = A-M) followed by digits (Chicago 1965-1984).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Keith on 8/1/2002 at 3:08:52 PM
I had an early 80s LeTour with Sachs-Huret/Stronglight equipment -- very Euro. It had a Tru Temper tubing sticker, and True Temper is American. No "made in Japan" sticker anywhere -- I did not record the serial number. Now, maybe that's some indication that it's a Greenville product. But I also own a Lotus made with Italian Columbus tubing, and equiped with Italian Campy Nouvo Record -- also very European. But it has a made in Japan sticker!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Andrew on 8/1/2002 at 9:58:44 PM
Collectors should pick up old catalogues from the 70s & 80s, there are clues to where varies models are made. my '79 catalogue says-Le Tour IV..madse in USA, Traveler III- Japan, World Sport-Imported. The book...'No Hands- The Rise and fall of Schwinn' is a must read if you like These bikes, an amazing story how Schwinn came unraveled!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Kevin K on 8/3/2002 at 1:28:07 AM
Hi. Andrew do you by chance have an author's name on that book please? Thanks, Kevin K

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN World Sport??? posted by Jinbo Jones on 8/3/2002 at 8:30:30 AM
I have a Le Tour IV that I bought in 79. The dealer told me that this the last of the chicago built bikes with the exception of the Paramount and I think the other was called a superior. Not gospel by any means. I also have a traveler of early 80s vintage that looks quite simular but is made in Japan. The lug that holds the seat binder on the letour looks quite different. The Jap bike is made of pipe ( had one heck of a time getting an aluminum seat post more than an inch into it then looked down the tube and saw the offending weld) The letour is tubeing I beleive.

Also I beleive that the american built bikes had super maxy cranks and the next years had even lower end cranks.

They ride the same as far as I can tell.

MISC:   old bike/new rims, brakepads??? posted by: Tony on 7/30/2002 at 2:28:09 AM
Greetings, quite a while since my last post (e.g. question).

I'm just about finished restoring an old Bianchi SR equiped bike. When it came time to do the wheels I R and R ed the hubs with NOS campy stuff. For rims I found a deal on a new set of I couldn't refuse, mavic open pro CDs, the ones with the ceramic coating on the braking surface.

I ride the bike every day so I wasn't that concerned about the rims not being NOS and it does stop a lot quicker especially when its wet, no wear at all on the braking surface of the rims either. The problem is brake pad wear, I've put more wear on a set of NOS pads in a couple months than I'd usually have in a year or more. I know campy made some pads containing iron oxide (red colored pads) which are compatible with SR brakes. These supposedly decreased braking distance with conventional rims. Has anyone tried these on ceramic coated rims and/or know of compatible substitute pads which will last longer? I still have a couple extra sets of the original black pads but these are getting harder to find besides being somewhat expensive.

Thanks in advance for any advice/insight, Tony

   RE:MISC:   old bike/new rims, brakepads??? posted by Keith on 7/30/2002 at 3:13:45 PM
I've encountered the same thing with the new machined rims. You can buy Mathhauser and Kool Stop iron oxide pads to fit NR brakes at http://www.bicycleclassics.com/brakes.html, and I believe Rivendell and Harris. But they aren't cheap either! I agree with Bicycle Classics that the salmon color pads fade a bit in the mountains compared to original NR pads. The salmon pads work better in wet conditions than original NR, however. So, it's a traseoff. I've found a decent combo is Kool Stop pads in the front, on a new Mavic CXP 221 rim with machined sidewalls, and original NR on the rear with a NOS smooth MA40. But after I wore out the salmon pads I went back to NR all around, because I have several extra sets handy -- sorry, not for sale.

WANTED:   Track Cogs posted by: Gralyn on 7/29/2002 at 8:13:22 PM
Where is a good place to get track cogs. Either 1/8 or 5/32 - it doesn't matter. I have found some....but I don't really want to have twice what I paid for the bike - just in the cog. I have a 18 or 19 tooth cog I picked up at a swap meet for $5. You would think you could buy all you wanted of these things for about $5 a piece. I stopped by a local bike store to see if they had any in stock. They could order me one....but it was like $33. A standard thread....anywhere from 16 - 22 teeth. I have some 13 or 14 tooth...but they're not all that useful to me.

   RE:WANTED:   Track Cogs and this fixed craziness! posted by Mark on 7/29/2002 at 10:23:11 PM
Hmmmm. Cheap track parts....this seems to be a very
common problem in these times of the fixed gear trend.
The deal with high prices on track parts (I have repeated this numerous times as of late!) is they are generally higher end gear hence higher priced. But my geuss if this whole trend keeps up, some marketing goon will catch on and then 'boom' cheep track parts for the masses.
As for now I suggest checking out the cogs Surly is putting out. I don't think the $20 I paid for mine was outrageous.

On the topic of this fixed craziness. I don't think it is a local craze (Minneapolis is where I am comming from) but there are shure a hell of a lot of people riding fixed or at least asking me too often about it. So is it getting this way in other cities, too? It looked like that to me for the few days I recently spent in Madison and Chicago. ?
I'm definetly all for it, it just seems funny to me when six years ago I was looked at as strange for having no breaks and only one gear!
Any input?

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Track Cogs and this fixed craziness! posted by Kevin K on 7/30/2002 at 12:01:43 PM
Hi Mark. I just put all new cable housings,cables, levers and bar tape on my Letour Luxe ( cantilever brakes ).I'm thinking I should have passed and gone the fixed gear route. Sounds fun and it sure would have been cheaper. Kevin K

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Track Cogs and this fixed craziness! posted by Gralyn on 7/30/2002 at 1:28:09 PM
I have a variety: Full brakes - front and rear with the dual position levers on a fixed gear. I have one with just front brake - and 2 with no brakes at all. I am currently working on another - which will have no brakes. I think the trend is all over.
I like the simplicity of it. And how you don't coast, etc. I had an interest in old track bikes - and reading up on fixed gear - and reading Sheldon Brown's info - I thought I would give it a try. I really like it. And, I think it will become more popular - and the price of these items will probably come down some.

There is an abundance of cogs - not true track cogs, of course, but they will thread onto the hub: They are the 13 and 14 tooth cogs found on most 5 and 6 speed cassetts. These are a dime-a-dozen....they're just lying around everywhere....but you can't really use them with a 50 - 53 tooth sprocket.

   RE:WANTED:   Track Cogs posted by Keith on 7/30/2002 at 3:21:34 PM
I think your LBS is goaging you. There is a range of quality out there -- my LBS has cheapo cogs for $10-12. The $33 must be Dura Ace or Campy -- overboard for sure. I once read that the smallest cog on a freewheel will work, but I've taken apart numerous Suntour, Shimano, Atom, and Sachs freewheels and they're the threads on all of them have been way too big for a standard threaded hub -- another internet urban legend. I think Gralyn is referring to the small cog of the original Shimano cassette, which also served as the lockring. You can find new ones, but they're about as much as a cheap fixed gear at my LBS.

   RE:WANTED:   Track Cogs posted by Oscar on 7/31/2002 at 5:22:02 AM
I've bought track cogs from Loose Screws and Harris Cyclery. Sheldon Brown wrote that low cost/low quality cogs could eff up the threads on your hub.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Track Cogs posted by Oscar on 7/31/2002 at 5:27:00 AM
Can freewheel cogs be used?

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Track Cogs posted by Stacey on 7/31/2002 at 5:46:22 PM
There was (just recently) a bloke on eBay that was selling a freewheel to fixed gear conversion kit. It included a handfull of machined aluminum spacers of different thicknesses (sp?) and a cog (with your choice of tooth counts... within a certian spread) If my clouded memory serves me correctly this was starting at about 10 - 15 USD. Lots of positive feedback on this kit too.

Trouble is... I don't remember the guys username or the search criteria I used when I found these. Happy Hunting!

MISC:   crank pulling posted by: David on 7/28/2002 at 9:21:21 PM
I want to pull the cranks off some bikes from the trash and pitch the frames. They're Sugino and the BBs have studs protruding instead of holes for bolts. The Campy puller I have won't thread in far enough due to the studs. Do I need a special Sugino puller? Are they all the same?

   RE:MISC:   crank pulling posted by Wings on 7/29/2002 at 7:03:48 AM
For older bikes with Sugino there is a standard (By standard, I mean very common) puller that your local bike shop should have. It screws on and then you tighten you screw in a bolt that just pushes the crank off. I use this puller on everything (older bikes) except for Stronglight which may require a different puller.

I just checked and I use a "Lifu-04A5 Crank Tool" and it has removed many sugino cranks. I also have a park tool but could not find it. These are very common and a tool that you will use many times.

Good Luck

   RE:RE:MISC:   crank pulling posted by Gralyn on 7/29/2002 at 2:58:23 PM
About how much does a crank pulling tool cost? I have found that I certainly do need to accumulate bike tools over a period of time. I currently don't have anything to pull cranks with.

I was amazed when I got a chain tool! I can remember years ago painting a frame - and trying to tape the chain up - and trying to tie it out of the way - because I had no clue how to take the thing apart...and I figured it just couldn't be done!

What about cottered cranks? Sometimes, the pins are really stubborn. Is there a certain tool? Or maybe a special technique to removing the cotter pins? I have removed some stubborn ones...but they were completely destroyed in the process.

   RE:MISC:   crank pulling posted by Ray on 7/29/2002 at 3:28:16 PM
You would be amazed what types of tools there are just for working on bicycles. The three mentioned above are just a few but what time and part savers they are. Anyone who has tried to remove a cottered or cotterless crank without these special tools has certainly spent more time and damaged or at least marred their cranks. When you think that a crank puller that cost under $25 can remove a crank in under 30 seconds with zero damage you can clearly see that it is a wise investment. The cotter pin remover is also just as valuable but a few bucks more. How many hammered cranks and pins have you seen on bikes. Use these proper tools and you will save time and money. I'll bet you could work for one day at McDonalds and make enough money to buy these two tools. I'll also bet that if you do not use one of these that your cranks are beat up and some many have never been removed from the bike at all due to frustration. I'll also be that you spend a lot more time on the cranks then you wanted to. Your LBS if friendly has all of these tools and can demo and help you purchase them.

   RE:MISC:   crank pulling posted by Keith on 7/29/2002 at 7:00:55 PM
A Park crank extractor is $12.95 from Nashbar. Park's tiny mini-brute chain tool is the same price -- I like it even better than the bigger one. The Campy tool I bought 30 years ago still works on brand new Campy cranks (but not other brands if the axle has threaded extensions as described above). There's a local guy who collects vintage bike tools -- a complete set of the old Campy tools, with fitted wooden case, is quite a prize. Sheldon Brown has a good explanation on removing cotter pins -- go to sheldonbrown.com and follow links.

   RE:RE:MISC:   crank pulling posted by ken on 7/29/2002 at 9:20:19 PM
I recommend leaving the Nashbar catalog lying around the house when your birthday's coming up. My wife, sainted, sensible woman, goes with gift certificates. Or just order a cool tool a couple times a year- they're much better to have than the cash anyway.

   RE:MISC:   crank pulling posted by David on 7/30/2002 at 12:42:17 AM
Park used to make a great cotter press for removing and installing them. (I found one on ebay) A good suggestion someone made in the Roadster discussion area was to use a big c-clamp with a socket to fit over the cotter and push it out or back in that way.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1964 Sprint equipped Schwinn Varsity posted by: M. on 7/27/2002 at 3:52:48 AM
Well I'm trying to determine the original equipment saddle for a 1964 Sprint Varsity so I can begin my search - please don't tell me black vinyl - The bike is the rare Terra Cotta color and know it's gotta have a leather seat - I'm thinking maybe a midpriced leather Ideale or Lycett?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1964 Sprint equipped Schwinn Varsity posted by Kevin K on 7/27/2002 at 12:46:21 PM
Hi M.. Cool Bike ! As for the correct saddle I can't say. I'll bet that's one good looking bike in Terra Cotta. Tell me please did it come through with matching bar tape or black ? Thanks, Kevin

   RE: Leather Sprint saddle posted by Eric Amlie on 7/27/2002 at 2:08:26 PM
In case you didn't receive my email to you; the correct saddle is a leather "Sprint" saddle.

   RE:RE: Leather Sprint saddle posted by M. on 7/27/2002 at 6:11:48 PM
Hey Eric your info was great on the Sprint and Lycett saddles - I tried to reply to your email but was given the "Mailer-Daemon" unable to return message? - thanks again - will let you know when I find the Sprint saddle......

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1964 Sprint equipped Schwinn Varsity posted by M. on 7/27/2002 at 6:19:45 PM
Hey Kevin the bike still has the original, although very faded, white plastic tape - I peeled some of it back to reveal a definite white color. I've already located some old white Schwinn tape. The color is really nice - don't understand why the Terra Cotta was ever discontinued in 1964.

   White bar tape posted by Eric Amlie on 7/30/2002 at 2:50:46 AM
Sorry about my email M. I've been having some trouble with it lately. I may have a virus.

It's interesting that your bike has the white bar tape on it. In the '64 catalog the Terra Cotta Super Sport (the only bike they show in Terra Cotta) has the color matched tape but the Flamboyant Lime Varsity has white tape. I had always assumed that they just didn't have the lime bar tape yet in '64 but your bike suggests that all the '64 Varsities had white tape and only the higher models got the color matched tape.

   RE:White bar tape posted by M. on 7/30/2002 at 4:04:27 AM
Eric - I've had absolutely no luck in finding a Sprint saddle - I even contacted Persons-Majestic to inquire if they may have manufactured the seat for Schwinn - I'm beginning to think that the Continental was the starting price point for leather and the Varsity below that had to settle for the vinyl - I haven't made contact with anyone who has ever seen a Sprint saddle. I'll Keep lookin or just get a good used Brooks B-15, Lycett or maybe a well worn Wrights.......... Thanks

   RE: Sprint saddle posted by Eric Amlie on 7/30/2002 at 1:10:15 PM
M., the Varsities '64 Varsities did have the Sprint leather saddles. I remember when these bikes came out. Many of my friends had them. They are hard to find. The Varsity was aimed at the "older child - younger teen" market who don't have a good record (even then) for taking care of their possesions. The bikes were often left outside in the weather which quickly ruined the leather saddles. This is why they are so hard to find today in good condition. Several months ago a seller on Ebay had 3 NOS ones that he had a "buy it now" price of $50.00 apiece on. He had no trouble selling all three. Believe me, they do exist. I have several of them but only one in good condition. I think the Lycett L15ST is even harder to find. I just recently bought one on Ebay though. By comparison, the Brooks B15 is relatively easy to find because it came on bikes whose owners new enough to take care of them. That is probably your best bet unless you are a stickler for originality. Just consider the Brooks an upgrade.

AGE / VALUE:   nick lloyds decals posted by: mark on 7/27/2002 at 3:16:58 AM
Hi Has any one ever delt with nick decals . does it take for ever to recieve them .I have emailed them 3 times without a responds. THANK YOU.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   nick lloyds decals posted by P.C. Kohler on 7/27/2002 at 11:10:51 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing! I sent him an order at the beginning of the month and have heard nothing. The previous order was sent out very quickly. Is he perchance on holiday? Meanwhile, my 1949 Rudge waits and waits to have new lining and transfers......

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   nick lloyds decals posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 7/28/2002 at 8:37:39 PM
I suggest that you be patient with him as it will be alright in the end. Perhaps you have to get in the pipeline and wait until your order pops up. Like framebuilding, or restoration work it takes awhile but it is worth it in the end.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   nick lloyds decals posted by Chris on 7/28/2002 at 8:40:19 PM
Holiday could be spent taking care of family business, or fixing a roof or helping out a parent or wife. Holiday does not alway mean a enjoyable vacation. Holiday can mean anything.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   nick lloyds decals posted by P.C. Kohler on 7/29/2002 at 7:02:46 PM
My transfers from Lloyds arrived today. They are gorgeous. Worth the wait. Hope yours arrive soon!

P.C. Kohler

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   High End Raleigh's posted by: Andrew on 7/26/2002 at 10:24:11 PM

I'm looking for some opinions and information on Raleigh's high end bikes from the early 70s, Mark IV, International, & Competition Mark II.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   High End Raleigh's posted by John S on 7/27/2002 at 1:12:40 AM
There is a "retro Raleigh" web site with some info on dates, specs, etc.

I like the internationals, pretty lugs, touring-like geometry gives a nice, smooth ride, but also light weight.

The models you mention were plentiful, so hold out for the one that is right for you.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   High End Raleigh's posted by Keith on 7/29/2002 at 2:12:52 PM
I think the high-end Raleigh bikes from the early 70s are very nice -- they represent the era well. The Professionals I've seen are a notch above. I had a '71 International, and it was beautiful, with chrome Nervex lugs and all the best goodies from that era, except for the Weinmann centerpull brakes. But, the workmanship on the International was not the best I've seen. The headlugs had tool marks, and showed no signs of filing or smoothing of any kind. There was some overfill here and there too. A local frind had an International that he rode in Paris-Brest-Paris. It eventually made a creaking sound, from the bottom bracket, which he discovered was because the chainstays were double brazed on the left, and only tacked on the right. I've read this happened to others. Maybe too many pints over the lunch break. Or, more likely, to meet the sudden huge demand of the bike boom, Raleigh, like others, sped things up and cut corners, and/or hired some less-skilled labor.

MISC:   Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by: Elvis on 7/26/2002 at 5:52:35 PM
Hi all. Just picked up a Kabuki [Bridgestone] road bike. I thought it was from the 70's or 1980's, even -- but I just realized the bike has Sew-up tires [with schrader valves of all things] on the coolest looking rims I've ever seen. The rims are Araya and they are double walled aluminum. Does this mean the bike is older? The wheels look as old as the bike, but I thought sew ups went out in the 1960's or before!

   RE:MISC:   Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by Keith on 7/26/2002 at 6:15:57 PM
Sew-ups or tubular tires are still readily available and are still used by most professional racers and at least some recreational cyclists. The performance of clinchers began to approach (but not meet) that of tubulars fairly recently. I've never seen or heard of a Schraeder valve on a tubular tire.

   Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by John E on 7/26/2002 at 9:16:53 PM
I agree with Keith. Are you positive that you have tubular tyres with Schraeder valves? Until I read your post, I would have willingly bet anyone that all sewups have Prestas.

   RE:MISC:   Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by brandt on 7/27/2002 at 2:10:58 AM
Since the topic of sew-ups doesn't come up very often, I need to throw out a question for any sew-up experts. I've changed a couple sew-up tires in my basement, but never on the road. If I had to change one on the road - I know I could take the tire off, and glue a new one on, but then, once the new one is on, can I take off riding, or does the glue need to cure for a while before riding??

   RE:Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by Elvis on 7/27/2002 at 3:25:28 AM
Thanks all. I'm not sure they are sew ups, cause I've never seen a sew up on the rim before, or seen an intact sew-up rim. I have seen sew-ups deflated [spare's i've found in saddlebags of old bikes I've picked up, but these were usually missing the wheels or had regular rims.] I only know that sew ups have the tire sewn around the inner tube and then glued to the rim. When I noticed this tired tire had a bulge in the sidewall, I didn't think it was a sew-up or anything else fancy cause of the schrader valve. But when I tried taking it off and saw it was glued to the rim liner I figured "Sew up." I do have a spare I found in an old bike's pouch, in good shape, but it has a presta valve, only the stem isn't threaded... Since the rim has a hole big enough for schrader valves, would I be safe wrapping the presta valve stem in electrical tape or some such thing so it fits tighter? Also, since no one seems familiar with such rims made for schrader, is it possible the holes were drilled out bigger to fit the larger stems, say by previous owner?

   RE:RE:Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by dafydd on 7/27/2002 at 1:13:26 PM
Sometimes old clinchers "glue" themselves to the rim as they degrade and can be a hassle to get off. If you want to use presta valves, you can buy grommets for the valve hole at your LBS.

   RE:MISC:   Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by Fred on 7/27/2002 at 9:29:12 PM
Bvis: I changed tires on an old Raleigh Sports last winter that were glued to the standard clincher rim. The owner had bought the bike new and said that the tires and tubes were original and had never been changed. It took me some time to remove all of the glue.

   Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by Elvis on 7/28/2002 at 10:50:23 PM
Thanks all. Turns out you were right. They weren't sew ups. [I've seen sew up tires off the bike but never seen sew-up rims so I couldn't tell till I got them off and saw they were clinchers. But the were glued to the rim! Talk about wierd.
One question, though: all my older bikes were 52/42 for the front gears. Yet the chainrings on this [both of which appear orig.] are 53/42. I thought 53 only began to become common these past decade or so on doubles. Also, for a bike that first looked to be fromt he 1970 or 80s, it has virtical drop outs for the rear wheel. Is this normal? Again, I thought virt drop outs were a relatively new development in road frames...

   RE:MISC:   Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by Keith on 7/29/2002 at 2:04:35 PM
Re changing a tubuler mid-ride. I re-applied glue to the rim and the new tire, waited for it to become tack dry, and rode away. Still, its' supposed to set overnight, so you have to ride with greater care, particularly on corners, as well as on higher speed decents that require you to use your brakes (with the latter the heat from the friction can cause the glue to become soft).

   RE:RE:MISC:   Kabuki with Sew-ups?! posted by Mike on 7/30/2002 at 6:53:03 PM
just replace and ride with some measure of caution, i.e. no smoking, downhill stops before the cement has set up a little. in the past, i have replaced flats with no new cement, if the tires were very freshly glued for that ride. never rolled a tire yet. now if it were a fast criterium, that's a different story.

MISC:   refinishing carbon fiber posted by: graftek on 7/25/2002 at 9:24:59 PM
I am slowly peeling the remainder of laquer of an old carbon fiber frame with the help of many rolls os scotch tape.Once I have achieved this,what type of laquer do I need to use or what paint can I use if any ??
Also can I remove the stubborn laquer with wet n dry
(silicone carbine paper) and can I improve the bare fibre finish with something before I re-laquer??
Thanks to all

   RE:MISC:   refinishing carbon fiber posted by Hallyx on 7/26/2002 at 12:23:50 AM
I'm pretty sure that's not lacquer. It's not compatible with the types of epoxies usually used for glass or carbon layups.

Be reeeally careful if you decide to persuade it to come off with sandpaper; use the finest grit you can use effectively.

There are epoxy paints available from the Pro car paint shops (PPG, Dow, others) which can be applied and sanded and eventually rubbed out to give you a glossy protective clear finish over your graphite substrate, assuming that's what you're going for. Ask the pros.

   RE:MISC:   refinishing carbon fiber posted by Hallyx on 7/26/2002 at 12:26:36 AM
Oh...forgot to ask: What, exactly, are you doing with that scotch-tape? Sounds interesting.

   RE:MISC:   refinishing carbon fiber posted by David on 7/27/2002 at 1:20:35 PM
Is the paint so badly stuck to the frame that scotch tape will pull it off?

MISC:   Bianchi TSX posted by: Tom on 7/25/2002 at 7:12:13 PM
Hi, new to your web site. Anyone care to comment on where in the line-up of columbus tubing tsx fits? I'm aware that SL was good, SLX was better. I think the X indicates the reinforcement but I was curious about intended applications, weights, ride characteristics. Thanks for any feedback. Tom

   RE:MISC:   Bianchi TSX posted by Steven on 7/26/2002 at 5:31:23 AM
The 'x' is used to denote the presence of rifling in the butts. The TSX is a newer iteration of the SLX tubing.

AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki Olympic posted by: Gralyn on 7/25/2002 at 4:58:02 PM
I picked up a Nishiki Olympic yesterday. I'm not sure how old it is. I think it's not 80's because it didn't have the foam rubber grip. It has 70's looking bar tape. A few things: It has Araya chrome rims with Shimano hubs and shimano QR. It has light-weight bars and stem (recessed allen bolt), Dia-compe center-pull brakes, shimano deur., 5-speed cassette - but the 1st and 2nd gears have skip-tooth sprocket. Doubling the # teeth on the largest sprocket - would put it at 36-teeth.....pretty low gear, huh? However, the front sprockets are both very large. The small one is probably 48 teeth...and the larger one - probably 53 - 55 something like that. It has cottered cranks - steel...and seems heavy. Maybe someone replaced the bars and stem...the rear cassette, and the cranks, etc. seem a lot older than the bars and stem does. I mainly bought it for the old Japanese araya rims with QR - but it has been a lot harder to clean and shine them up that I anticipated. I finished the rear one last night....took a long time. Anyone else have an old Nishiki Olympic?

   Nishiki Olympic posted by John E on 7/26/2002 at 9:22:01 PM
You have a first-generation Oly, ca. 1972. At the time, all Nishikis had half-step gearing, typically either 48-54 or 47-54 / 14-34 (or 34-equivalent, as in your skip-tooth). The skip-tooth was an attempt to make the cheapo Shimano Eagle derailleur shift decently. Unlike the later Olympics, yours may not be a keeper, since it weighs well over 30lbs. The allen bolt stem may well be original.