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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I don't get it posted by: Brian L. on 10/12/2003 at 4:15:29 PM
All of these postings decrying the lack of descent LW and going on and on about crappy Varsities (MHO)and thrift store junk and I can't generate any interest in 2 free bikes both sporting nice SunTour alloy components, one of which is a very good build quality Motobecane with a fine Euro heritage. What gives?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I don't get it posted by gary m on 10/12/2003 at 5:06:56 PM
i put 22 schwinn lightweights and some varsities and a others on ebay and didnt get but a 10$ bid

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I don't get it posted by randy on 10/12/2003 at 6:11:34 PM
mabye you need a new hobby, freind.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I don't get it posted by JONathan on 10/12/2003 at 8:32:11 PM
Brian L., I think they are great bikes. Too far for me to pick up. My Kobe "cobra" looks brand new. I have it packed up, but use the Araya wheels for a standby pair.
Someday, people will want these. Part of it is the need-factor. Part of it is the space-factor. Those two would get bought in a hurry, here.
Funny to me, I go to a garage sale (the generic GS) and pick up a Moto "super mirage" for $15 which is only requiring air; and next to it is a junky piece of furniture for $20 or a beat up lawn mower for $25.
Thre IS no logic, only rationality and the two are independently derived. As for e-bay. I personally think a lot of interested parties are not focused in on the computerized "world" and I live in the thick of it all, too, or pretty close anyway.
I prefer to see the bike as a real entity, while in the course of casual searching. Also, I have fixed up bikes for people who opt to spend beaucoup for a new one that's marginally better, if at all.
I am missing something, too, but it doesn't make me waiver in my belief in the value of these vintage bikes. Besides, it is a good, clean hobby, IMHO.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: I don't get it posted by Warren on 10/13/2003 at 1:59:51 AM
Not my size...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I don't get it posted by Joe on 10/13/2003 at 4:33:12 AM
Plenty interested, but on the wrong coast. The Moto would be a great bike for me but I'm 3000 plus miles away.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I don't get it posted by Gralyn on 10/13/2003 at 2:15:08 PM
Yes, if you were within 3 hrs of me - I would be on my way to pick them up.....but....you're more than 3000 mi. away.

AGE / VALUE:   whats it worth? posted by: Ron on 10/12/2003 at 4:07:33 PM
Have following: 70s western flyer girls banana bike (very good), Huffy boys smme time frame(high rise seat), Schwinn BREEZE in very good shape (mens) Email me at: berryboot@yahoo.com

MISC:   Vitus 172 vs. 2040 Hi-resiliency tubing posted by: JONathan on 10/12/2003 at 3:10:09 AM
Two Motobecane "grand touring" 10 speeds were at a church rummage sale this week. One was 2040 Hi-resiliency tubes and the other was built with Vitus 172 (maybe double-butted, the decal was tore up pretty good as usual). I got the 2040 frame as it was a 23 in. as opposed to the Vitus frame which was 21 in.
This small Frenchman was telling me about how great the Motos are, drawing on his experiences in France growing up riding bikes everywhere. They had belonged to a couple who were not using them at all. Mine had a bent fork blade and a cracked up fr. derailer.
Both bikes had the same train (SunTour). Mine had Weinmann alloys and the other bike had unmatched wheels. My guess is the Vitus is a better grade of tubing, but whgat do I know? That's why I post my dumb questions, of course. Although I've been told by various experts in different fields that there aren't any dumb questions, just dumb answers.
Not to imply that anyone posts dumb answers! Quite the contrary. This is the greatest bike site for information. Thanks, again.
I took my "gt" for a spin, today. What a great ride.

   RE:MISC:   Vitus 172 vs. 2040 Hi-resiliency tubing posted by Walter on 10/12/2003 at 3:44:03 AM
The Vitus tubing is "better" in that it is lighter, more resilient, has a better ride, etc. However, it sounds as if your choice was between a frame size that fit and one that was too tall. You, just like Indiana Jones, chose wisely. An ill-fitting frame is inferior (for you) regardless of the quality of its tubing.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Vitus 172 vs. 2040 Hi-resiliency tubing posted by JONathan on 10/12/2003 at 4:29:22 AM
Thanks, Walter. A 23 is borderline for me. I use a 25, but 23 is a bit small, but smaller, providing it's not too small, is tolerable. Whereas, a frame that's too large is scary.
Funny how things work out. I was a casual visitor at noontime...the hambergers were great, and the bikes were right at the walkway. Nobody had snapped them up all morning long. I start looking at the bikes and this Frenchman comes up and starts in checking the gold (vitus) one. We talked and then each of us bought our respective, prospective rides at the same time. It was as if the bike was waiting for me to come along, as I could have easily have had my paws on the gold one as the grey one. I had not sized the bikes, I was awestruck at finding two decent bikes at this place. Last year, I got four hulks, unusual hulks, but still rolling wrecks of bikes.
I sure like the Motobecanes. I have a Super Mirage, too. There is a Nobly that I don't ride, but apparently it is hit with those who do. I have tested the Nobly, which is the bottom dweller of the Motos, from what I can determine, and it is a commute/casual ride type. The rubber pedals are gross, but I can't replace them without drawing fire, so they stay in place. Whatever they want, I can't complain; especially if it means I save money. Money that can go toward fueling my fever for these vintage craft, these lightweight cruisers. The super mirage is a bit more robust architecture, while the GT slices along like a sleek schooner.
Thanks, JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Vitus 172 vs. 2040 Hi-resiliency tubing posted by Derek Coghill on 10/12/2003 at 9:41:19 AM
Coincidentally, the Peugeot frame I mentioned below is for a friend; his Motobécane has snapped its frame just above the bottom bracket on the saddle post, it seems to have rusted from the inside out.

   RE:MISC:   Vitus 172 vs. 2040 Hi-resiliency tubing posted by T-Mar on 10/14/2003 at 7:47:19 PM
JONathan, your supsicions are correct, Vitus 172 is a chromium-molybdenum, double-butted tubeset.

Derek, failure of the seat tube, just above the bottom bracket is a common frame failure. The bottom bracket acts as a large heat sink during the brazing process. Consequently, the surrounding tubes are subjected to more heat and resulting strength loss than the the lugs. Add the high stress from the pedal action and these tubes are the most likely to fail. However the seat tube has two added factors, the clamp/braze-on for the front derailleur, and for inexpensive bicycles, moisture. The moisture results from riding in the rain without fenders. The rain is thrown off the rear tire and hits the bottom of the seat, from which it drips down the open top of inexpenisive seat posts and down the seat tube. This is why the seat tube is most prone to rust. A simple solution is to stuff a cork (literally) in the top of the seat tube and seal the edge with a silcon caulking.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Vitus 172 vs. 2040 Hi-resiliency tubing posted by JONathan on 10/15/2003 at 4:21:09 AM
Thanks Tom. You know, this is strange, but I in a shed I have some bikes that are stand-by projects. The shed storage, BTW, is not a great way to suspend the deterioration, unless it's insulated. I built this one with an old insulated solid aluminum campershell with heavy redwood sides and a wooden floor. The bikes keep well.
That isn't what's weird, but I was tidying the racks and noticed a Motobecane "grand Touring" mixte in the back row. I had forgot it was a Moto. I thought it was a Peugeot. As I checked the frame, I noticed that Vitus decal. This one is almost new, too. What are the odds of it being a "grand touring"? I haven't seen them around, and now I've seen two in a week and a third in a shed that I didn't know about until today.
It was a free bike, too. Unbelievable to me that nobody got it for $10. Well, this was a couple years back at the big church RS that had a lot of great rides foir sale. This year, I was lucky to get a Univega for $15. There were very few vintage bikes, yet I have been lucky with the Motos.
You are right about the rust in the BB due to the seat post leaks. I have a couple of bikes with that problem, but I hope I caught it. I rans some 300 emory over the rust with WD-40 as a lubricant. They look shiny inside, but BB is exposed. A box of bathtub stoppers has me thinking they would fit in the BB opening for long term storage to keep moisture (and spiders) out.
I use 35mm film tubes for the tops of the seat-tubes held with elec. tape. Works good.

MISC:   George A. Wyman Centennial Update posted by: Rif on 10/12/2003 at 2:52:51 AM
I have just added a whole bunch of new pictures and text to the new George A. Wyman web site.
It can be seen at:
Click on the "road updates" link to see the new pic.s and read the beginings of the centennial ride across the country.
Click on the "building the bike" to see some of the build up of our replica. I have only just started on that page so it's still kinda sparse and rough, but some of it is there.
It took a while but i guess I'm starting to figure out this whole web site building, html writing, techno crap.
Keep the Tire Side Down,

FOR SALE:   Raleigh Technium Road bike 54cm posted by: Greg on 10/11/2003 at 11:28:46 PM
Early 90's Raleigh Technium.54 cm.Very good condition with the exception of a quarter size paint chip on the top tube and a few minor scraps in the paint.Black white and red in color.Suntour derailleurs(3000x)Downtube shifters,with index shifting for rear, friction up front.Criterium bars.Aero levers,Dia-Comp.Brakes as well.SR crankset.Nitto stem.6 speed freewheel.Rigida 700c x 25 Double wall rims.True with no hops.Tri lite cro mo fork.Newer tires.No seat or pedals.I ride this bike everyday to work and it flys!I have a pic but it does no justice to this bike.The stem and hubs as well as the head set have some corrosion on then but nothing I think that can't be cleaned up.A very solid bike.No rack braze ons.Will accept two water bottles

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh Technium Road bike 54cm posted by Greg on 10/11/2003 at 11:49:44 PM
By the way,I want $125.00 for it.I live in Roscoe Illinois,10 miles North of Rockford.I can be reached at 815-988-3181.Thanks!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   How to attach a seat? posted by: Derek Coghill on 10/11/2003 at 5:55:56 PM
I have just acquired a Peugeot "Triathlon" (steel) frame and forks which I'd guess is from the 1980's. It doesn't have a pinch bolt or a slot in the seat tube and I wondered if anybody knew how the seat post is secured on this bike? Frame number is B610 83316, if that's any help.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   How to attach a seat? posted by gary m on 10/11/2003 at 6:39:15 PM
look for a single hole in the seat tube. if it has this, a internal clamp locks onto a slot cut into a cast seat tube.
i may have one, who knows where, will look if your desperate.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   How to attach a seat? posted by Derek Coghill on 10/11/2003 at 11:08:48 PM
No holes! I got this frame today, so will have a hunt about for ideas next week; I'm in Scotland, so a bit distant for parts.

      How to attach a seat post? posted by John E on 10/11/2003 at 11:26:51 PM
Carbolite Peugeots require a special seat post, which employs a long bolt and an expansion wedge, in the manner of a handlebar stem. Finding one may be tricky ...

   RE:   How to attach a seat post? posted by JONathan on 10/12/2003 at 3:06:24 AM
My Kabuki 10 sp. from the late '60's has the wedge type anchor bolt. Actually, a good design.
I think it was a bottom-up bike, they used Aluminum lugs and the standard pich-bolt setup wouldn't do the job with Aluminum's low ductility.
I hope they thought of that before building the bike! You're less likely to return to find that your seat had been removed in your brief absence.
Your rear brake cable anchor bracket (pseudo-pinch bolt) may be out of adjustment, however.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   How to attach a seat? posted by Sean on 10/13/2003 at 1:18:46 AM
Hi! I actually owned a Peugeot Triathlon in the late 80's, It came with a Stronglight (I think) expanding bolt seatpost. It does work in the same manner as an expanding bolt stem except for the way the bolt is designed. At the end of the seat tube there are 2 slits, and the conical nut sits inside the seatpost and expands the base of the seatpost more evenly that a traditional "bologna cut" wedge stem. I'd go have the seat tube sized and then go hunt on ebay or any bike shop in your area that was around in the 80's. You'd be amazed what may be lying around in the parts bins of some shops. Good Luck! And if I can remember for sure what brand seatpost it was, I'll let you know. -Sean

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   How to attach a seat? posted by Mike Patterson on 10/13/2003 at 2:08:16 AM
I have a seatpost with an expander bolt and wedge built in out with the rest of the seatposts in the shed, I'll measure it tomorrow, and let you know the size. Mike

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   How to attach a seat? posted by Mike Patterson on 10/13/2003 at 7:06:27 PM
I looked and I still have the seatpost with the wedge. It is sized to fit a 'standard' seattube, the one inch size, and any small variations could be taken up by the bolt BUT it is very crude, all steel and chrome with a nut welded onto the slash cut wedge and a long bolt and washer on the top. You could probably make a better one out of a cut down 1 1/8" stem in a good alloy, but if you want it, here it is...Mike

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   How to attach a seat? posted by Derek Coghill on 10/13/2003 at 9:49:16 PM
Given that you're (presumably) in the USA and I'm in Scotland.........! I've emailed Stronglight in France and have some feelers out here, so I'll see what happens. Thanks for looking though, and I'll bear it in mind.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   How to attach a seat? posted by JONathan on 10/14/2003 at 2:49:07 AM
Sounds like a nice bike. Check at this site:

I checked a 1986 catalog pic. and description in Dutch, I think, but the specs. state "zadelpen mit expender", which I take to mean "saddle post with expander". The bike is a PX10 SH which may be the bike. Check it out.
Shimano 600EX was good stuff, too. Still is, IMHO.
You may have better chance getting the part closer to where you are in Europe. Good luck.

   RE:RE:   How to attach a seat post? posted by Dick in FL on 10/14/2003 at 5:56:30 AM
I have that same seatpost wedge on my Kabuki Submariner. Mine also has the cast aluminum lugs which acted as a jig/fixture for assembling the stainless steel frame tubing. Since the bike was mint when I found it, I decided to store it like a DeLorean until I could learn more about it. Can anyone tell me when it was made? Mine doesn't have the faux pinch-bolt; I have side-pull brakes.

   RE:RE:RE:   How to attach a seat post? posted by JONathan on 10/14/2003 at 7:23:02 AM
Archives have a few posts. Try search using "submariner" in the box. Mention was made of abn article in the Jan. 1975 issue of "Bicycling" magazine.
A good guess on the date-of-manufacture can be derived from a component check. My Bridgestone Kabuki is has the Shimano "lark" derailer; it is late '60's.
The frame tubes are steel, while all the lugs are aluminum castings. The thermal bond is mechanical, while galvanic action between the dissimilar metals produces a chemical bond (corrosive adhesion).
However, this is a slow process due to the tight fit...electrolyte, like water for example, needs to make contact with the connection. I have not observed any corrosive scale on my Kabuki. The paint forms a good seal at the joints.
I have not looked inside the BB to note the condition of the aluminum on the inside. That seat-post bolt may be useful to keep moisture out of the seat-tube as well. Very interesting bikes. I have a Carmel, which I have not studied at all. It could have aluminum as well. I got it solely for the fine aluminum fenders to use on a Peugeot UO-8.

AGE / VALUE:   1975 Schwinn Bantam 1977 Schwinn Hollywood posted by: Bill on 10/11/2003 at 3:08:57 PM
I would like to know an estament of what these two bikes are worth. The Bantam is in good condition and the Hollywood is in excelnt condition. if someone could email me i would appreciate it there both also 20inch

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1975 Schwinn Bantam 1977 Schwinn Hollywood posted by Don on 10/11/2003 at 5:06:47 PM
Try asking on the balloon tire & middleweight forum see above. These 2 are not "vintage lightweights". Don

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bike deals posted by: Brian on 10/11/2003 at 9:57:08 AM
Just keep in mind that some of these unbelievable bike deals
are often stolen bikes. I will not buy any bike if the owner cannot give a credible story, or if I have the hint that something is wrong. Having been the victim of bike thieves myself, more than once, I think it's a pity we aren't all more careful from whom we buy from. Your seller could be smoking crack & destroying their friends & families lives, or heavens knows what. Ignorance is not bliss if you have a conscience!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bike deals posted by Kevin K on 10/11/2003 at 1:42:26 PM
Hi all. I must agree with Brian. A retired guy in town here buys and sells used bikes. 99.9% of the time the bikes are clean. In his 10 plus years only three bikes have turned up hot. I bought a nice bike for my son from this guy. A Schwinn Homegrown mountain bike. I gave $400 as the bike was in almost new condition. I took it to the Schwinn dealer here in town. He ask me where I got it. I told him. He then let me see the 2000 price sheets on the bike. $2279. Wow! I took the bike to the police station and 45 minutes later recieved an all clear on the bike. Luckily it was also purchased locally and police were able to document the sale as valid. The seller wanted money to buy a car. Mom and Dad had bought him the bike a couple years previous, he no longer wanted it. So most of the time the sales are ok, but when in doubt have a little police work done. Owning stolen items of any type isn't an example to set. Enjoy, Kevin

AGE / VALUE:   specialized posted by: jack on 10/10/2003 at 11:41:13 PM
Yet bough a specialized allez with suntour gpx parts. Are these any good. Never heard of these only paid 7.00 dollars cant lose.jack

     specialized posted by John E on 10/11/2003 at 12:22:36 AM
You did EXTREMELY well! If it fits your size and needs, it's definitely a keeper.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   specialized posted by jack on 10/11/2003 at 1:13:12 PM
it is my size in good shape and did buy it a store. have bought a lot of schwinn there thanks jack

MISC:   Need to know value posted by: Bill on 10/10/2003 at 11:10:22 PM
i need to know the age and value of an older schwinn bantam i have all the organil parts for it except the peddles if its worth money i want to restor it but not turn it in to a copper its also a girls 20" bike

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailleur Adjustment posted by: Tim on 10/10/2003 at 7:06:42 PM
A year and a half ago I picked up one of those great finds everyone on this board writes about. For about 5 dollars at an "after a Queens Day" (a local holiday) sale I bought a Koga Miyata Gents Racer. The bike was a mess and appeared to have been stored in a chicken coop for about 15 years, but a complete rebuild,lots of Brasso, steel wool, and thinner (plus new tires and brake pads) left me an absolute gem of a bike. Late 70s/early 80s, built in Holland with all Japanese components - full Shimano 600, SR, Tange, Sakei, LaPrade seatpost, Selle saddle, nice lugs, chromed Shimano dropouts - very tight and fast and weighing rather less han 25 lbs. Here is my problem: The rear derailleur, a Shimano 600, touches the large cog when on the small chainring. The derailleur doesn't have a B-angle adjustment and my Glenns and Barnetts offer few clues. I had replaced the chain, but measured it link for link. Does any one have any idea how to adjust this derailleur away from the freewheel? Thanks!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailleur Adjustment posted by Keith on 10/10/2003 at 7:22:01 PM
Despite your careful measuring, try removing one link from the chain.

      Derailleur Adjustment posted by John E on 10/10/2003 at 8:13:22 PM
... or add one link. Either operation should help move the jockey wheel away from the cog. Add a link if the chain is taut in all gears; remove a link if it is loose in the small - small combinations. Moving the rear wheel farther back in the dropouts may be equally effective and considerably easier to accomplish.

   RE:   Derailleur Adjustment posted by Dave on 10/10/2003 at 10:23:02 PM
Just out of curisioty how many teeth on the rear cog? I'm also assuming you have a double ring crankset.

   RE:RE:   Derailleur Adjustment posted by tim on 10/12/2003 at 7:07:30 PM
Thanks for the advice. I moved the wheel back as far as it would go and pulled a link from the chain. Works like a charm. Dave, the large cog is 24t. Thanks!

AGE / VALUE:   I ACTUALLY BOUGHT ONE TODAY posted by: Kevin K on 10/10/2003 at 6:50:09 PM
Hi all. We after finding and junking about 20 Schwinn Varsity bikes I actually bought one today. May 1973 in Kool Lemon. The bike is a strong 9 out of 10, but still a Varsity. My buddies were always telling me your Schwinn Collection has to include a Varsity. So now I've got one. These things are still cheap to buy. I'm glad I was able to locate on this clean at a give away price. Now for a Sunset Orange 1973 Continental. Prefere a 24" frame. Enjoy, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   I ACTUALLY BOUGHT ONE TODAY posted by Dave on 10/10/2003 at 10:53:09 PM
Awesome! These are ubquitious here in Chicago as well as Continintal's, I'll keep my eye's peeled.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I ACTUALLY BOUGHT ONE TODAY posted by Kevin K on 10/10/2003 at 11:04:47 PM
Thanks! I was at a friend's house the other day and spotted at least 6 Chicago Schwinn frames in his metal pile. One was a Campus Green Varsity. I started thinking then that the day will come when even these bikes are hard to find. Yea, I would really like a Sunset Orange Continental as it was a one year only color. Thanks again, Kevin

MISC:   Peugeot Mixte on ebay posted by: Jim on 10/10/2003 at 9:50:25 AM
Found this last night:
Mid 70's Peugeot Mixte with 21" frame on ebay.
(Not mine, no relation to seller...)
Doesn't look to bad for one of these.

   RE:MISC:   Peugeot Mixte on ebay posted by Jim on 10/10/2003 at 10:00:18 AM
Same seller also has listed:

> 23" Raleigh Grand Prix

>Centurion Mixte

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Vintage bike magazine article posted by: Corey on 10/10/2003 at 4:05:48 AM
I just noticed an interesting article in the newest issue of Cyclesport magazine (usually available at Barnes/Noble). They had rounded up 4 vintage road machines and had current road professionals test ride them. The bikes were a 1910 General Lucifer, a 1937 L'Auto, a 1955 Louison Bobet and a 1966 Mercier.

All the models had been raced in the Tour de France. In fact the L'Auto had been a generic sort of approach, where all the competitors got that same bike in that 1937 TdF edition. The idea being that the manufacturers would be kept from giving the racers unfair advantage (or something like that.) The descriptions of the gear systems (when present), were interesting, as was the comparisons of saddles to the modern counterpart. I'll leave it to you guys to find the article and the details.


MISC:   Schwinn Tires posted by: Rob on 10/10/2003 at 3:36:18 AM
Another interesting little find...I got 2 Schwinn SX Dual Hard 115psi/220gm ProCircuit 700x23 tires (one still had the original Schwinn tube...Made in Japan...the tires are in excellent shape...they look hardly used... Price $5 (CDN) each...no charge for the tube... The question...What kind of bike would these tires have likely been on?? A Paramount????

   RE:MISC: Schwinn Tires posted by jack on 10/10/2003 at 8:36:42 AM
I have 2 Paramounts from early 70's, one 10 and the other 15 speed tourer. I believe both are stock and they came with sewups. Not to say impossible, but sewups were standard as far as I know.

   RE:RE:MISC: Schwinn Tires posted by jack on 10/12/2003 at 6:56:40 AM
I was wrong. Just found out that 27x1 1/4 clinchers were std on the P15 touring. While I'm on Paramounts, maybe someone can answer this for me.

I have a red 10sp P13 and a chrome 15sp P15, both '71 per serial#. The P10 frame has zero braze-ons, Nervex lugs and pencil stays whereas the P15 has brake cable braze-ons, dropout eyelets of course, no Nervex lugs and pinched stays. Its almost as if the bikes were 10 yrs apart yet they're both 71's. Shouldn't the frame spec's of these two models be virtually identical (save for eyelets)?

TIA for Info

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Tires posted by John S on 10/15/2003 at 8:59:54 PM
Jack, I've had a P13 and P15 and I do believe frames were different designs, for racing and touring. Touring designed for fatter tyres, longer wheelbase, note more fork rake in the touring, eyelets for racks/fenders, etc. They should ride differently. Back then it was also possible to do some custom spec.