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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   1984 Eddy Merckx...what's it worth? posted by: Carlyn on 10/3/2003 at 5:20:14 AM
Hello all. I own a 1984 Eddy Merckx bike and am trying to figure out the worth. The serial # is 8472 (that's why I think it's an 84). It is a steel frame bike, red and white, with shimano 600 components. 56 cm. It is all the original components and paint, no big scratches or anything. Can somebody make a guess for me? Thanks!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1984 Eddy Merckx...what's it worth? posted by Carlyn on 10/4/2003 at 12:05:29 AM
I've found out a bit more. The frame was sold alone (all the components were added after frame purchase.) It was hand made in belgium. Did DeRosa make their bikes in belgium too?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1984 Eddy Merckx...what's it worth? posted by JONathan on 10/3/2003 at 7:30:22 AM
I think he retired from racing about 1984. I believe there was a close relationship with De Rosa bicycles, which was one of the makers who built bikes for him.
His own bikes have a marked resemblance to the De Rosas. Very collectible bikes.A gifted and famous rider, who builds quality bikes from the vintage era has got to carry some clout on the open market.
It can't get much better. Value is what someone is willing to pay. Hard to believe, but I think it's worth more than 20 of the kind of rolling stock that I fix up.
A bit of history and it's a fine bike to boot!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1984 Eddy Merckx...what's it worth? posted by Gralyn on 10/3/2003 at 11:52:48 AM
Your name looks similar to mine at a glance.
You might could see if any have sold on e-bay...and what they went for. But it does sound like it's a valuable bike - compared to most of the average bikes available at that time...and even today.

FOR SALE:   Schwinn road bikes on Auction. posted by: Gary Main on 10/2/2003 at 10:06:16 PM
adios old bikes.

FOR SALE:   Schwinn road bikes on Auction. posted by: Gary Main on 10/2/2003 at 10:06:16 PM
adios old bikes.

AGE / VALUE:   Presta Value posted by: john on 10/2/2003 at 9:01:08 PM
Need some expert advice. I've got at least 2 sets of usable wheels with presta only width valve stem openings. One set is lightweight, the other is mb size. I'd like to use the lightweights on a schwinn varsity and the mb's on a frankenbike, but the tubes are bad and I'd rather not bother with buying new ones. Plus, I've salvaged many schrader valve tubes and it would be an easy job to ream out the hole to fit so I could use them, but it is my understanding that prestas where used to keep more metal in the rim for strength. Anybody have any opinions on this? Thanks. john

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Presta Value posted by T-Mar / Tom on 10/3/2003 at 12:40:52 PM
You should be able to drill them out without any problem. Just make sue you careful file and /or sand any remaining burrs. If you ever decide to retro-fit with Presta valved inner tubes, you can find appropriately sized grommets at most hardware stores.

Basically the Schraeder valve was the North American standard back in the 1970s while Presta was the European standard. Back in the 1970s the only bicycles that came with Presta valves were those with tubular tires. The North American trend towards Presta valves started with the early high pressure wired-on tires (late 70s) and finally gained acceptance with the introduction of 700C, wired-on rims. During this transition period, most rim manufacturers provided the same model rim with both a Presta or Schraeder valve holes, so rim strength was obviously not a concern. Today, Schraeder equipped bicycles are pretty much limited to children's and low end bicycles, and some ATBs.

Basically, the Presta is considered a high performance valve. It is smaller and lighter, has no internal spring and a positive lock.

The drawback is that the you cannot use a gas station air hose to pump on the tires. Given the poor regulation of these air supplies, it's not much of a drawback in my opinion. Always carry your own pump and use a hand operated, floor pump at home. Most modern pumps accommodate both valve types. Hand pumps are much better for regulating the air pressure on low volume, high pressure, bicycle tires.

Why not keep the Presta inner tubes and use a hand pump or an adapter? Adapters are available at most bicycle stores for between $1.00 - $2.00. Alternately, you can make an adapter out of an old Schraeder valve. Just remove the valve core and cut the stem about 12mm (1/2") from the top. The internal threads on the Schraeder just happen to match the external threads on the Presta.

AGE / VALUE:   1926? mead crusader posted by: david jadams on 10/2/2003 at 2:23:53 AM
iv'e had this bike for over twenty years, bought in the chicago area. with fresh 28" tubulars, it is a fine daily rider.origional paint,wheels ,drivetrain,etc.new parts are the ones that wear: grips,saddleleather,pedals.tuned by a long time cyclist. any ideas? really don't want to sell...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1926? mead crusader posted by Dave on 10/2/2003 at 1:23:30 PM
I think www.cycleart.com had one of these, also check www.firstflightbikes.com and also www.harriscyclery.com,(Sheldon Brown owns one of these). The are from the 20's/30's if I'm not mistaken, a US made bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1926? mead crusader posted by Rif Addams on 10/4/2003 at 3:39:22 PM
Mead goes back pretty far, the one that I rode across America was between 1900-1910 (we believe), so we split the difference and called it a 1905. If it has 28" wheels, I would be inclined to think it pre-1930's (although I could be wrong, I don't claim to be an expert by any means).
That is just my gut opinion as I believe by the 1930's, in the U.S., most manufacturers had converted to 26" wheels as standard fare.
I could not even begin to tell you the value on something like this, but it sounds like an absolutely gorgeous piece of cycling history.

AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by: John S on 10/2/2003 at 12:24:01 AM
Decided to go to Velorendzvous in Pasadena this weekend (check out the Velo-Retro website). Decided to take the mid-70's Nishiki Road Compe to show. Many bikes are sure to be exotic and rare (check out the photo's from last year's show!), so I don't know how the Nishiki will be received.

I'm bringing it because this I believe, was Nishiki's top racing model during an era when Japanese imports were moving up the road bike food chain and establishing a mass presence. Interesting frame details, the requisite chrome including head lugs. Long-point lugs, interesting graphics, forged SunTour droupouts, wrap-over seat stays. Anyway, the case I'm making is this bike represents design and aesthetic influences from top european marks but with Japanese interpretation and some of their own ideas.

Hoping John E sees this, I'd be grateful if you could refresh me on the history of this model. It's bright green with flat-black head tube, chrome head lugs, graphics include that bamboo-style lettering. That small-quill diameter stem, sugino cranks. Do you know how to date it? Components?

Anyway, looking forward to the show, place to see many absolute top bikes!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by Tom C. a/k/a Titlist on 10/2/2003 at 2:33:26 AM
great, great! your sort of the ambassador for all of us here, maybe others who are going, can tell you here in advance, have a good time. Will you go on that bike ride? Have a good one!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by Johnny Sieg Heil!! on 10/2/2003 at 10:59:10 AM
Ja, Dat is correct! I don't even know who Joe E. Ramone was!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by T-Mar / Tom on 10/2/2003 at 12:02:56 PM
Check out http://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm for decyphering the SunTour and Sugino date codes.

Nishiki did have model called the "Professional" around this time period. It is shown as the top of the line in my 1973 literature. Your model is not shown, so it may be slightly later. I'm sure John E will striaghten it out. He appears to be our resident Nishiki expert.

John, I'm sure the Nishiki will be well received, for the points you stated. If I was going to the show, that is the position I would take upon seeing your bike. There is sonething to be learned from every vintage bicyle, whether exotic or mundane, top of the line or bottom of the barrel. In your case, what you have was pretty much Japanese state of the art. It should be a popular item. How about posting a picture or two so the rest of us, who aren't going to the show, can see it? Thxs.

   Nishiki Road Compe posted by John E on 10/2/2003 at 2:54:22 PM
I am trying to reconstruct a chronology of early higher-end Nishiki models in the U.S. The following is a start; corrections/comments are, of course, invited.

1968: American Eagle Semi-Pro; Sugino Mighty Compe crankset, wide-range 10-speed half-step SunTour VGT gearing (52-47 / 14-32), DiaCompe centerpulls, aluminum Araya rims, Sunshine high-flange QR hubs, stainless steel spokes, downtube shifters, double-butted Ishiwata CrMo frame w/ wraparound stays, short lugs; 73-degree parallel geometry with long (41"?) wheelbase

1970: gearing changed to 54-47 / 14-18-22-27-34, still reverse-shift (normal high instead of low) front derailleur

1972: Semi-Pro renamed "Nishiki Competition"; SunTour barcons, long spade lugs, 27 x 1-1/8" skinwall 80 psi tyres

early 1972: Road Compe introduced: full CrMo frame/fork/stays; tubular tyres, 54-44/14-16-18-21-24 10-speed gearing

(Personal note: I rode a 12hr 18min Los Angeles Wheelmen double century on a 1971 Semi-Pro on which I had copied the Road Compe's gearing and tubular tyres.)

   RE:Nishiki Road Compe posted by T-Mar / Tom on 10/2/2003 at 4:03:30 PM
John E., specs for the 1973 Nishiki Professional are listed as; chrome molly double butted tubing, Dia-Compe center pull brakes with extension levers, Soyo tubular tires, Arya rims, Mighty Compe 5 pin cotterless crank (46/52), Sunshine large flange alloy QR hubs, Sun Tour V derailleurs, dropped or touring handlebars, narrow or spring mattress saddle, weight 25 lb, MSL $299.00. Sizes 19", 21", 23", 25".

Photo shows bar end shifters. The frame has chromed fork tips, stays and possibly head lugs. Head tube is a darker, contrasting paint to rest of frame. The photo I have is black and white. I'm not quite sure about the head lugs, as the sample frame appears to be painted silver or another light colour.

Other models listed for 1973, in descending order, are the Competition, International, Olympic and Sports Cycle.

Please note the misspelling (ie. Arya vs. Araya, molly vs. moly, etc.) is intentional, as this is the way it appears in my literature. If you want the full specs for the other 1973 models. please let me know.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by Rob on 10/2/2003 at 5:18:46 PM
Sometime in the mid '70's, wouldn't the first generation of Cyclone der.s have made their appearance on the higher end Nishikis? I think it's also safe to assume that Nishiki (built by Kawamura)would have had components that were from the non-Shimano "trade group"...Sugino, Dia Compe, Maeda, etc. What would the high end Sugino crank have been in that era?...Sugino AT? ...or is that a bit later?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by John S on 10/2/2003 at 6:32:04 PM
Nice replies. I'll report back on the show.

More of what I know about the Road Compe components: Dia Compe center pulls, small quill-diameter forged alloy stem labeled "gran prix", Sugino forged cranks - Campy copy with crown pantograph, maybe Kyokuto Pro-Ace pedals & SunTour power ratchet bar cons.

Re: the Joe E Ramonne comment from an earlier post, he was the lead of the Ramones punk group of Rocky Horror and Rock n' Roll High School film fame.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by Gralyn on 10/2/2003 at 8:20:53 PM
I'll have to get into my latest Nishiki Olympic - and try to determine what year model it is. Center pulls, QR front and rear, 5-speed rear, HUGE chrome spoke guard, Big chrome chain guard around chainring, vinyl saddle with the diamond pattern on top surface, Randonier (Randonneur, Randonner, Randoner, Randonieur, Randonnieur.....you know what I mean....just have no idea how it's spelled). Those nice ornate lugs, ...that's all I can think of now.....but it will be interesting to find out what year it was made.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by James D. on 10/2/2003 at 10:11:15 PM

Don't believe they are in Rocky Horror Picture Show

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by Rif on 10/4/2003 at 3:50:07 PM
Being a second generation punk, I have nearly every Ramones album.
The Ramones and Iggy Pop are directly responsible for the punk movement world wide...
Nothing to do with bikes I know but you guys brought it up and as an aging, bitter punk rocker, well I just couldn't let it pass...
Keep the Tire Side Down fellas!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by Rob on 10/6/2003 at 1:26:53 AM
Thanks Tom...at the moment I seem to be focussing a bit on cranks and freewheels...always lots to learn...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki going to the Bike Show posted by T-Mar / Tom on 10/3/2003 at 2:02:42 PM
Rob, the Cyclone derailleur did not appear until 1976, possibily 1975 at the earliest. The earliest evidence I have of a Cyclone is 1976, an old SunTour ad. All the deluxe and professional, SunTour equipped, Japanese bikes in 1973/1974 were still using V series derailleurs (i.e. Nishiki Professional, Kabuki Diamond/Superlight, Fuji Newest). In April 1975 there was a Suntour ad showing what I presume to be their full product line (derailleurs, shifters, freewheels, internally geared hubs, dropouts and a even a spoke protector). There was no Cyclone in the ad. My asumption was always that that the Cyclone was a response to Shimano's Dura Ace. In 1975, Dura Ace started appearing on many Japanese, professional, competition models (ie. Fuji Ace, Miyata MX-P. Panasonic Professional).

In the early 70's Nishiki was a staunch SunTour advocate, however they always had a token Shimano bicycle, or two, in their line-up. In 1973, my literature shows Shimano derailleurs spec'd on the base, sports models, Sport Cycle and Olympic. John E. claims Shimano was used only on one model (I believe the Olympic), so we have a bit of a discrepany, though it's evident that SunTour was their preferred component supplier as it appeared on the majority of their bicycles, including all the deluxe, professional and intermediate bicycles, at least for the early 1970s.

I don't have any evidence to support whether Nishiki went Dura Ace or Cyclone in the mid 1970s on their professional, competition model. Perhaps John E. can answer this. Or maybe if I dig deeper in my archives...

The top line Sugino crank in the early 1970s was the Mighty series. It was a very nice forged crankset. The early model was listed as the Compe. In 1974 there was a model called the Competition, with milled out spiders. In 1975, with the addition of the new Victory chainrings (optional black anodizing, drilled out, and inner webs removed) it became the Mighty Custom. Interestingly, some Japanese manufacturers equipped their professional, competition models with Sugino cranks and Dura Ace derailleurs/brakes/hubs, despite the fact that a Dura Ace crankset was available. The Sugino Mighty series, in addition to being an excellent crankset, looked better (personal opinion - it was a virtual copy of the Camapagnolo Record) and the Competition/Custom versions were lighter(assumption base on milling and drilling).

AGE / VALUE:   FINISH RESTORATION posted by: Kevin K on 10/1/2003 at 8:23:36 PM
Hi all. Some of the alloy parts on my bikes have a protective clear finish over the aluminum to keep it bright. Some of these pieces are of nice quality but are scratched pretty badly. They look bad. I've attempted to remove the clear finish with 1000-1500 grit sand paper. This takes forever although the pieces look great after polishing. Has anyone got a simpler solution to this problem. Any ideas? Thanks, Kevin

   RE:   FINISH RESTORATION posted by Eric Amlie on 10/2/2003 at 2:29:20 AM
Kevin, I wonder if what you are seeing is an anodized surface. Some alloy parts are anodized to prevent the aluminum from oxidizing. The anodizing itself is a form of aluminum oxide and is very hard which explains why it is so hard to sand off. I have heard that caustic oven cleaner(a strong alkyly like lye) will remove the anodizing. Spray the part with oven cleaner. Let it sit for about ten minutes then wash off with water. Repeat as neccesary. Haven't tried it myself. Just passing along what I have heard from others. If it is some sort of clear coat instead I would try a strong solvent like lacquer thinner or acetone to dissolve it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   FINISH RESTORATION posted by gary m on 10/2/2003 at 5:12:36 AM
japanese motorcycles use this coating to protect them from ozone and slow corosion, but mostly to hide the myriad of gas inclusions prevalent in alloy aluminum castings. you can polish them most of the time, but someday your gonna regret taking that coating off. on top of that your now a constant polisher too, but hey it sure looks nice.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   FINISH RESTORATION posted by Kevin K on 10/2/2003 at 11:40:49 AM
Hi guys. The parts in question are really badly scratched in the coating and would not compliment the bike in any manner if installed. One is a nice Gran Compe stem that fits my Schwinn Voyageur 11.8. Thanks for your help. Kevin

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   FINISH RESTORATION posted by Kevin K on 10/2/2003 at 11:41:21 AM
Hi guys. The parts in question are really badly scratched in the coating and would not compliment the bike in any manner if installed. One is a nice Gran Compe stem that fits my Schwinn Voyageur 11.8. Thanks for your help. Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   FINISH RESTORATION posted by Dave on 10/2/2003 at 2:03:26 PM
Kevin , I have a old bike that I was originally going to use Brasso polish on per a thread by TMar. I talked to a clerk at my local hardware store and she said use this "Old New England",(I'm guessing on the name, I'll verify it tonight),brass and aluminum polish. It is a aluminum packet with 2 premoistened cloths and the stuff is terrific cleaner/polisher of aluminum. It requires a lot less "elbow grease" than Brasso, per the hardware store clerk who uses it on brass candlesticks. FYI

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by: Dave on 10/1/2003 at 1:19:22 PM
I'd like to return to the subject of a lack of avaialablity of vintage LW's. Just yesterday on my commute route I noticed a guy riding a yellow Schwinn with upright riser handlebars,mattress saddle and his briefcase mounted on the rear rack. Also on my way home I saw a Panasonic LW with a flatbar that looks like it was narrowed with a hacksaw. Seems people are re-cycling LW's,(pun intended), and still keep them going.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Keith on 10/1/2003 at 3:54:56 PM
I see many vintage lightweights on my commute on the local bike path. A lot of the riders, however, are younger, leading me to suspect that parents' bikes are being passed down, nad/or that these young people have discovered the same things this group has -- the value and quality of vintage lightweights.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Titlist on 10/1/2003 at 4:27:43 PM
Seems I see a lot of youth, what could be the work, not anti-establishment kind, but maybe the kind, some listening to Reggae, some sporting gotee beards and t-shirts, and such, pick up on the classics, in sort of an ambiguous back to earth sort of statement. For some reason, Peugeot, seems to be the "chic" choice. On Summit in St. Paul, I've said before, one need wait minutes before a cyclist comes by. It makes me think of the past, when at times of the day, people would take a stroll to see who is out there. Trouble is, many are going to fast, for any social contact. Then, the lion's share, seems to be those with modern bikes, Trek's, Modern Bianchis as the Grand Cycling Store specialises in as well, as aiding in sponsoring and I suppose coaching a team. Summit St. does have, the North American offices of Phil Ligget's Cycle Sport Mag , http://www.cyclesportmag.com/ or nearby at least, to cover myself. I forget, what they were riding, but the boys from the Loon State Cycling Club, http://www.loonstate.org/ , treated me well, this club seeming to be from one of the Southern Burbs and by the way, on some very modern cycles, sure it wasn't Trek or Bianchi, which is Grand's specialty. Back to the recreational time thing, it is really, neat, how, kind of like the ol' main drags, at times, one can go out, and admire what others are riding, as opposed to a dwindling supply, that unfortunate, it is a positive in this aspect. I don't get to the Thrift stores, like I would like, but have to believe, that most of what I have seen in the past, 80% or more, have been those same standard lower end brands. A few ideas, know not always conducted in a coherent, comprehensive way, but would be if it were graded.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Gralyn on 10/1/2003 at 4:36:32 PM
I very, very rarely see any old vintage lightweight - other than whichever one happens to be under me at the time. What I see is either the new bikes ($$$$) with the fully-garbed cyclist.....or it's a seemingly impoverished person on a really crappy-looking dept. store 10-speed - using it for basic transportation. I'm always looking out for them, though....I just hope I start spotting more of them.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Mark C. on 10/1/2003 at 4:54:17 PM
I regards to the dwindling supply of vintage LW, the main source I have found so far here in the suburbs of Phila. PA which was the goodwill stores have pretty much dried up (or my timing and luck has). They now have posted at the several I try to get to every 1-2 weeks "no longer accepting bicycles". I'm not sure the reason as they always seemed to sell every one they got including the Huffys and Murrys and kids bikes. Possibly a liability issue? If any one tried to ride off on some that I passed up with out servicing them they were asking for an accident. I did luck out recently and found a pair mid 70's Peugeots (standard and mixte) in a pile waitiing for the trash but I think I will have to find a new type of source. I'll actually have to work at it now.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Gralyn on 10/1/2003 at 8:27:54 PM
It's difficult to tell, though, if the bikes are fewer, or if people are grabbing them up so much quicker. Take for instance, yesterday: I stopped by a thrift store, and saw a guy loading a schwinn in his trunk. I couldn't tell exactly what it was - it had a large oval head badge - which makes it pretty old...but I think it had the safety brake levers...so maybe an early 70's.....well, anyway, the point is that the bike had just hit the floor. It wasn't there yesterday. Someone grabbed it as soon as it hit the floor.
At another thrift store - there are nothing left except some Free Spirits, Murrays, and Huffys - the most desirable bike there is the Executive I posted about...and it's not much...and it's probably gone by now. But those other ones there - they have been there for a long time. Nobody wants them.....but you let a Raleigh, or a Peugeot, or a Schwinn show up there.....it won't last a day.

Even the Lotus women's bike I posted about earlier....someone picked it up eventually...and at the full original asking price.

So, I can't be sure if there are fewer bikes...or if folks are just grabbing them up so quickly.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Rick on 10/1/2003 at 9:30:22 PM
Interesting discussions, btw, I have a Lotus frame, thought of tossing it or giving it away. All this talks, makes me think, I'll just keep it around.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Mike Patterson on 10/2/2003 at 3:12:51 AM
Ok for all of you who do not live in my city, what I have found works is an ad in the local free buyer-flyer offering free pick-up of old or broken bikes. You need a truck and will end up with lots of trash to re-cycle either to a metal salvager yard or some other way, but you can end up with some nice free bikes and parts, wheels brakes seats etc.
For those who may live in my city, this does not work.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Edward in Vancouver on 10/2/2003 at 4:35:43 AM
Ummm, a though just occured to me as I trtipped over myb "stash" of surrogate frames and bikes in my garage. Want to know where all the decent L.W. bikes are? Right here, in your gargage, basement, barn, what have you. How many bikes have we saved from the great maw of the garbage truck, salvaged, or stripped for parts? There was a finite supply, and we've tapped into it.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by gnarfleuall on 10/2/2003 at 5:47:26 AM
as soon as word gets out that you have the place for bikes to get dropped off, your gonna get hit with a ton of them.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Gralyn on 10/2/2003 at 5:24:06 PM
I was thinking seriously of placing an ad in a local sale paper - that I would pick up old bikes for parts, etc.....but, the more I think....I'm thinking of all those Huffys, Murrays, dept. store mountain bikes, kids bikes, etc......and having to dispose of them....and thinking that only occasionally I would get some good parts.....But then, I had an idea.....a work of art I could create out of them....well, maybe I will place that ad and see what happens.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dwindling supply of LW's posted by Dave on 10/2/2003 at 8:41:13 PM
Grayln , I saw a peice of art work like that while in France but all I could think about was what a great source of old French threaded parts going to waste...

AGE / VALUE:   Loctite posted by: Todd on 10/1/2003 at 11:17:31 AM
At one time, a headbadge on a bike of mine, got slightly scuffed up, from a basket on the handlebars, won't do this again. I have a replacement; not much of a problem. That one Canadian website, I believe, dealing with a restoration of an Eaton project bike; spoke of placing the headbadge on with Loctite. I know there is a name for the little nails, that place some headbadges on. I was reading somewhere, that Raleighs may even provide more information on the bike, under the headbadge. A lot of this is fascinating, as I work on my restoration project.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Loctite posted by Dave on 10/1/2003 at 1:14:55 PM
Todd , I have seen the headbadge screws for Schwinns at least check the Old Schwinn website link under General Resources here.

   affixing a headbadge posted by John E on 10/1/2003 at 2:13:26 PM
Most headbadges are either glued or riveted at the factory. When the first owner had my Capo repainted, he replaced the rivets with small sheet metal screws, which I continue to use after the recent second repainting. For an extra $20, CyclArt could have replaced the screws with rivets, but the screws don't look objectionable, and they do permit me to remove the badge for cleaning. I have never heard of using LocTite for this application, but I suppose it could be done.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Loctite posted by JONathan on 10/2/2003 at 3:49:07 AM
I know that there are very small diameter "pop" rivets that could possibly do the job.
You cab get a pop-rivet tool at most tool stores. I was given the tool,so I jave no idea what they cost, but I have used it a lot.
Practice is a good idea. Mine has three different bores that screw on. Getting them off is a simple drilling job or grinding (I prefer grinding), however, removing the badge is a low probability event. The forks would need to be taken off to remove the rivet fragment that would fall down the inside of the head-tube. This could jam the steerer...not good.
Screws are better in this sense. Screws are prone to work loose, this is where the "loc-tite" might be useful. Also, you have the theft factor being greater with the screws, although the rivets won't discourage a determined thief. I got a $5 bike today that ahd the headbadge missing, but the little rivets were still sticking in the headtube!
Glue which I think is what "loc-tite" qualifies as, is a temporary fix, IMHO.
I know some "loc-tite" bonding agents require heat to loosen up.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Loctite posted by JONathan on 10/2/2003 at 3:55:04 AM
I, personally, would avoid loc-tite, as it may react with the paint, which could only be bad news.
Just my 2 c's.

MISC:    RENE HERSE posted by: Titlist on 10/1/2003 at 11:00:04 AM
RENE HERSE 16mm Dural Crank Bolts/Washers

Must be the restoration project, I know, how well made Rene Herse's are known to be, just rather fantastic; this auction. I don't doubt they are not worth it, since I can not make an informed observation on this matter. Seller JoeERamone, is in my neck of the woods, must go to France and Italy, etc. to encounter some of these objects. Cycle Sport Magazine, US headquarters, set up near here as well.

It's been a while, since I've seen his auctions, I am always astonished.

   RE:MISC:    RENE HERSE posted by Titlist on 10/1/2003 at 11:17:11 AM
http://old_school_cycles.tripod.com/oldschoolcycles/index.html ; a good site, do not believe, oldroads has a link too.

   RE:RE:MISC:    Gold Simplex Derailleur posted by Titlist on 10/1/2003 at 11:33:30 AM
Gold Simplex Derailleur as well, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2904&item=3628088205

in Jacques auctions, I can't help but think, some who post here, are participants of affluence, restoring some fine velos of the past, remarkable.

   RE:MISC:    RENE HERSE posted by Michael on 10/1/2003 at 8:20:44 PM
Looks like a King's Ransom to me, can this be real? Who has that kind of money? I wouldn't pay 30 quid for that.

   RE:MISC:    RENE HERSE posted by John S on 10/2/2003 at 3:45:41 AM
Interesting tidbit: My wife and I vacationed in Paris last April and went to this very cool used sports bookstore. Fabulous collection of used cycling books. I purchased a couple of original Rebour books (written in french...), one from 1948!

Anyway, I met JoeERamone there. He does travel to europe, somehow finds great vintage bike stuff and ebay's it. I guess it's a living, huh?

   RE:RE:MISC:    RENE HERSE posted by Titlist on 10/2/2003 at 4:14:04 AM
well, obviously, you did not meet him as the name Joe E. Ramone? How did you know that was him? That's his ebay name?

   RE:RE:MISC:    RENE HERSE posted by Thadeus Dalrymple on 10/2/2003 at 4:22:00 AM
the harrassers are back, stalkers control conversation, don't talk of their "n" word calling, civil rights violations, all can go to the police, they have a mental problem, they stalk, woodn't they, they wish to know things, anonymously stalk, as the cowards they are.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:    RENE HERSE posted by Police Department on 10/2/2003 at 4:46:47 AM
Maybe these boys would like to talk, I find the bit about Joe E Ramone, a bit unbelievable too. The crime side, should talk to the police, has practiced infringing on civil rights, what ever, and when ever they can, a campaign of terror. I read, the note, earlier on someone else, ruining the board. I think, bikes should be discussed here, not these brazen stalking incidences, so routine. They are more than welcome to speak to the police at any time, have been proven to lie, that kid, in all this. Proof exists, let not the stalkers, control the conversation, when they are cowards to even let their names be known, or speak themselves, sexism, women doing this, who don't ask for dates. Pure Nazism

AGE / VALUE:   Executive posted by: Gralyn on 10/1/2003 at 3:17:13 AM
I spotted an "Ececutive". I couldn't tell much about it....didn't look all that great...but looked old. It had 26 X 1 3/8 wheels...and I think they may have been rigidas. It had simplex front der. and simplex shifters. The frame looked welded - no lugs. Then, later today I spotted a womens model of "executive"....which had a "made in Austria" sticker.....So, I figure the "Executive" is made in Austria. But I know nothing else about it. Has anyone heard of these? It was $10....and I could probably get it for less than that....and I thought about getting it...mainly for the down-tube bolt-on shifters.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Executive posted by Joe on 10/1/2003 at 7:01:34 AM
I guess I am not the only one to have come across one of these lately! I trash picked a pair of these, about three months ago, both have 26 x 1 3/8" tires, one a three speed and the other a 5 speed. My first bike as a kid was an Executive, a 20 x 1 3/8" single speed, back around 1969. If I remember right, it came from a Kress 5 & 10.
The wheels resemble Rigida's with the serated sides, but dont have any markings other than "made in W. Germany" on them. Quality apears to be fair, these are by no means a Raleigh or Schwinn, but they seam to be fairly well made, although a bit light duty. The 5 speed has a Huret Alvit deraileur, the 3 speed has a Made in Austria Sturmey Archer look-a-like. The 3 speed is black and the 5 speed is dark red. The 3 speed has twist grip shifting, and the 5 speed's shift lever is stem mounted. The rims on the 5 speed as well as the 20" I had as a kid resembled a Schwinn S-5 or a Raleigh drop center rim but with serated sides. Brakes are steel lever and steel caliper. Both have fancy alloy fenders, with a raised center rib about an inch wide. The Red 5 speeds fenders are painted in the center and pinstriped in light blue. Both of the ones I found are rough but fixable, for now, they are just hanging in the garage awaiting some spare time to tinker with them.
I had seen a "Rixe" on eBay that was very similar to my 3 speed, Rixe is a major brand in Germany that has made bicycles and "mopeds" for decades there, I was wondering if "Executive" was a rebadge for the US market? The one I had seen on eBay had the same paint and fenders.
I also had considered the fact that they may have been an east coast only bike, all of the ones I have seen have been in this area and into New England. The one on ebay was in Conneticut. My 20" was bought near Philadelphia. The 2 I found had dealer stickers from northern NJ and NY.
I'll have to check, but I believe one is from W. Germany and the other says Austria? The frames are different enough to make me believe that they had come from different places. The 5 speed has sort of a lugged frame, the headtube incorporates the lugs into it's form, and the 3 speed has no lugs and hidden welds.
Either way, whoever made these, or imported them, must have done so in limited quanities, they seem pretty few and far in between.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Executive posted by Tommaso on 10/1/2003 at 10:59:49 AM
Think I have seen an Austrian brand, Steyr I believe.

   Austrian bicycles posted by John E on 10/1/2003 at 2:19:22 PM
As far as I know, the only Austrian bikes exported to the U.S. were made by Capo (1959-1961, probably fewer than 2000 units) and by Steyr-Daimler-Puch (from the early 1960s through the early 1980s, thousands, under Sears Free Spirit, Puch, Steyr, Austro-Daimler, and other marques). Your "Executive" is almost definitely a S-D-P product.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Executive posted by Keith on 10/1/2003 at 4:01:17 PM
The description fits the SDP bikes I've had (set of men's and women's Sears 3-speeds, 1970). They appeared similar to a lower end Raleigh 3-speed, but the fenders and chain guards were made of thinner gauge steel -- like Joe says, "light duty."

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Executive posted by Gralyn on 10/1/2003 at 4:45:22 PM
The ladies model I spotted - was 3-speed with fenders, etc. - much like the one's described above. The men's model is 10-speed and has drop bars. The stem looks like an AVA or so, cottered cranks - however, it appears the crank on the right is made to the chainring - and perhaps not removable. Down-tube bolt-on shifters. I wish I could make out the script on the brake calipers. It is yellow.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Tailight lense posted by: Mike Patterson on 10/1/2003 at 1:26:46 AM
Quite a while ago in a discussion far far away (couldn't resist; should have), One of the contributors was looking for a lense for a tailight on his touring peugeot and I have since aquired one, so if he (the unknown seeker) still needs the lense, I have a complete unit with lense and a unit in better overall shape still attached to a rear fender, which could be combined to make a good unit. Let me know what you need if any....Mike

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Tailight lense posted by JONathan on 10/1/2003 at 1:57:46 AM
Thanks a lot, Mike. I was in need, still am looking for one. Funny thing, I just happened to be checking that UE-8, today. I have not worked on it for a while. Not much to do, except that lense. The bike is in primo shape. I believe that is the only missing part from the original setup. Nice bike, it is, too. Rides easy.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Headbadge posted by Titlist on 10/1/2003 at 2:48:55 AM
I was looking at a Peugeot today, I often here of the UO8 mentioned here, I was looking all over for a marking on the model of Peugeot this was. I have seen quite a few, ridden one. I found remarkable on this one today, the plastic covering, clear and such, over the lion, I think, I've seen Peugeot badges, with the lion, reminiscent of the style of the Heron, but this clear plastic film covering, was new on me, quite nice. Also, had like half gum hooded brake levers. Simplex derailleur. .

AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by: Birddog on 10/1/2003 at 12:52:16 AM
Hello everyone, I'm new here and also to vintage bicycles. Last Friday I bought a Mondia Special for $25. It has a N Record R der, Mafac Racer brakes, Strada Crank (52/45), and the rest just says Campagnolo. This bike has Nervex lugs and the front ones are chrome, as are the seat/chain stays forks, and seat tube, with paint fading to the chrome. The stem and handle bars are TTT and the stem is an adjustable "mod Record". The hubs are Record w/ flanges, and the hoops are Fiamme. I pumped up the tubies and test rode it around the parking lot and all of it works ok. I forgot to mention it has Campy bar end shifters and eyelets for fenders. The chrome is in pretty good shape as near as I can tell, but the paint is pretty bad, mostly because of all the clamp-ons on it. There are no water bottle bosses and they were clamped on as were the pump peg and derailleur cable guide. I also bought a Takara which is in a little better shape. It has Dia comp center pull brakes and Suntour ratcheting shifters (not indexed). It has 27" wheels, and I actually bought it because it had what appeared to be a better saddle, its a Unicanitor, and some real nice EsGe fenders, and rear rack. It weighs quite a lot, and I may make it into a fixie, not sure just yet. The Mondia is pretty long 104.5 cm, and the bb is very low, even with the 170 cranks.
Now the questions
1 Is there an acceptable method to recolor the saddle? it's/was black leather?
2 The shifter cable housing looks like "choke cable" housing, is this the way they did it? is it cleanable?
3 Should I keep the tubies, or look for clinchers?
4 Can you get hoods for the Mafac brakes? expensive?
5 Is a restoration worth it on this bike?
Sorry about all the questions, and that's only the ones I remember right now.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by T-mar on 10/1/2003 at 3:01:59 AM
Great find! The Mondia was a very nice Swiss bike. What you have matches a circa 1973 model. The frameset is Reynolds 531 DB. The bicyle is definitely worth a restoration if you can't live with the patina (and to restore or not restore is an ongoing discussion on this site). Check out the Classic Rendevous site for some sample Mondias.

The proper hoods for the MAFAC racers are half hoods. They cover only the top of the lever body. They are rare and prices vary quite a bit. Harris Cyclery (of Sheldon Brown fame)has them for $60.00. The best price I've seen is Bikeville for $35.00.

Tubulars versus clinchers is personal preference. If you want to keep it period correct, the proper clincher wheelset would be 28" x 1-5/8" x 1-3/8". Finding these is a bit of a problem.

I'm not a car person, so I don't know the term choke cable. Anyone else?

You don't mention the cause of the saddle discolouration. I have heard that you can use a little shoe polish with proofhide treatment. I haven't tried it myself, so you may want to test it in an inconspicuous area (i.e under the saddle). If you haven't ridden leather saddles before, make sure you wear black shorts. The leather treatment and sweat will soil the shorts. That why there used to be a rule that all bicyle racers had to wear black shorts.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by Tommaso on 10/1/2003 at 3:06:16 AM

beside that page, some on serial numbers in aiding identification, good discovery again, glad you told us.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by Smitty on 10/1/2003 at 4:06:39 AM
Lucky dog great find. My brother has a 73 Mondia Special with a green and yellow fade paint job and chrome every were else. I remember they day we got it new. It had gran sport down tube levers. I am prety sure the cable casing would have been bare (no outer coating). It had Mavic clincher rims 27x1 1/4 maybe Mod 3's Michelen Elan tires . The seat was a Unicaniter black. It has been tuff to find very much info on them. If anybody knows of more websites please let us know thanks. (we still have the bike)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by JONathan on 10/1/2003 at 4:48:04 AM
Tom, I know "choke cables", which I think dates me pretty well. They are steel coiled jackets as opposed to plastic covered spring steel colied shrouding.
Also, if you have ever run a rototiller, the throttle cable is similarly steel coiled shroud. I have that type of armored cable on my Bottechia. Probably the original cable from the '60's. The advantage is that is does not crack or get brittle and still like the plastic-coated stuff. It does not rust, so it must have nickel plating or something that is unreactive to oxygen.
I have not seen that cable for sale in any store, either.
The Mondia is a rare find. Nice.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by T-Mar on 10/1/2003 at 12:11:04 PM
JONathan, thank-you for the lesson on choke cables. I guess I just never got into the whole car scene. So, it almost sounds like the outer coating rotted off the cable housing? There was also a brand that used a translucent coating, so you could see the spirals of the metal housing.

Birddog, given that you have Campagnolo Record hubs, there is a two digit date code stamped on the back side of the hub locknuts. This is probably the best way to date the bike. Of course this assumes the hubs/wheels are original and based on the overall component mix we have a high confidence level for this. Serial numbers are the most reliable dating tool, but based on the Classic Rendezvous site, they have a relatively low amount of data. If your locknut date code and serial number corroborates with the info on the Classic Rendezvous site you may want to send them your serial number and year info. I'm sdure they would be appreciative.

By the way, in my original post I also forgot to mention that Reynolds 531, double butted was considered by most people to be the finest tubing available at the time. There should be a tubing sticker on the frame, usually at the top of the seat tube. Given, the component selection, it is highly unlikely that it is not Reynolds 531 DB.

Oh, and to cap things off, if it is circa 1973, MSL was around $400 US!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by Birddog on 10/1/2003 at 1:43:25 PM
To verify, clarify etc.
Yes it does have a sticker that says "Reynolds 531 butted" tubes. It doesn't say double butted and part of the sticker is missing. I will check the hubs, but so far it looks to be a mid 70's vintage using serial number. Good description of "choke cable", I just assumed everyone would know what I meant. It does not appear as though any outer covering wore off, and all shifter cables look this way. It almost looks like it was galvanized, no evidence of shiny plating. It does have some corrosion, but will probably clean up. I'm guessing the restoration kit offered by the site hosts is appropriate, any thoughts on that. The saddle is discolored mostly on the back/wider portion. It looks like it just wore off, as the leather is pretty smooth. This saddle is aparently one of the first to go "lightweight" with leather molded to a plastic maybe nylon shell, so I couldn't test it underneath, every part of the leather is exposed. The hoods are indeed "half hoods", and they are pretty rough from what is probably UV exposure. Does any one have an idea why this "touring" type of frame would have been set up with a 52/45 ? I can't figure that one out. I live in and the bike is originally from OKC, it's fairly hilly here, so I'm puzzled. I expected a 52/42. With the exception of the paint, which may have been "over the top" back then.I say over the top because it has chrome Nervex lugs on headtube which lead to a medium but intense blue. The top tube and down tube start as blue then fade to a couple of inches of white, then fade to an almost burgandy red. There is an abundance of striping, or striping decals, and the lugs are also highlighted with striping, some of which looks to be re-done, as it is not very neat. It seems to have been well cared for, for most of it's life, probably only in the end did it suffer some indignity and neglect. I would guess it had been stored indoors, no evidence of major rust, just ordinary corrosion. One other ?, did they chrome the whole frame back then or did they just dip those areas that they would leave exposed? The seat and chain stays, forks, and seat tube all have exposed chrome areas as well as the head tube lugs. I'm pleased to know this wasn't a trash discovery, although when I saw the Canpy parts I was pretty sure I was OK.

     Mondia posted by John E on 10/1/2003 at 2:23:16 PM
The "butted" (or "renforces") on a Reynolds 531 sticker does denote what many people refer to as "double-butted." If the 531 logo is printed diagonally, then you have a full Reynolds 531 frameset; if the 531 is printed horizontally (unlikely with a Mondia), you have either a straight-gauge main triangle (e.g. Raleigh Super Course) or a mixed tubeset frame with butted main tubes (e.g. Peugeot PR/PKN-10, "3 tubes renforces").

   RE:  Mondia posted by Dave on 10/1/2003 at 4:15:59 PM
Birdog , For the chrome parts Turtle Wax Crome polish works pretty well. You may be able to at least clean up the paint with automotive paint scratch remover , just be careful near the decals. Then apply a car wax. - FYI

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by Keith on 10/1/2003 at 4:27:59 PM
I have had "choke cables" as Birddog describes. I'm not sure but I think one set I'm still using came with Suntour ratchet barcons. It's essentially a stainless steel coil --no plastic liner like modern cable housing. I'm guessing this one was for the short length of housing for the rear derailleur. Yes, I'd remove the cable from the housing and apply some oil or a light coating of grease to the cable. It wouldn't be vintage correct, but I'd also consider simply replacing all of the cables with new stainless ones. If the brake cable housings are rusted I'd replace those too. But keep whatever you take off the bike. My '71 Raleigh International also came with a 52/45 and a fairly small 5-speed cluster (I think it had a 24t large cog). Despite that, the International had fender eyelets and tons of clearence for fenders (or mudguards). I've always wondered whether the International was, as opposed to a true road racing or touring bike, a high end "club" bike. I've read that back in the day Brit club riders would ride their bikes on Saturday to the start of the race course, with mudguards and saddle bags on the bike. These were then removed for the time trial races on Sunday. Does your Mondia have fender eyelets?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by T-Mar on 10/1/2003 at 5:57:14 PM
The question of the chrome coverage depends on the manufacturer and even the model. Some, such as Torpado, who favoured transulucent colours, were still chroming the whole frame during this time period. Others, such as Fuji, fully chromed the frame only on particular models. Most manufacturers chromed just selected areas of the frame. Basically, it was a question of economics. While chrome provided a harder base surface, it is more expensive and weighs more. It is also more problematic for paint adhesion. Look closely at your frame. There should be some small chips where you can tell if there is chrome beneath the paint.

THe saddle sounds like an early Unicanitor. THe most popular version used a suede/chamois leather covering. The suede surface tends to wear smooth, while areas of little wear, such as the back of the saddle, tend to retain the suede texture and turn grey with age. Regardless, there should stil be a one centimeter wide strip of the covering which is tucked under the edge and glued to the underside. This should allow you to identify the original material and provide a small area for testing. My original post assumed a traditonal leather saddle. I doubt the treatment will work on a suede covering.

Wheelbases were longer back in the early 70's, but 104.5 cm sounds a bit long, even for back then, unless it is a touring frameset, which conflicts with the gearing and components. The dropouts should provide about 2-3 cm of wheelbase adjustment. Maybe the wheel is just positioned all the way back in the dropout?

A lot of European bicycles during this period came with 52/47 chainrings. The 52/45 is actual a good compromise between a 52/47 and 52/42, as it provides an easier low gear, but doesn't create as big a jump during the critical third cog crossover from the small to large chainring.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by John S on 10/2/2003 at 3:37:17 AM
I have two Mondias, and had one of it's first cousins, a Juvela. All 71-73. Ons a vintage model, much as you described, it's a 71, came with a Brooks Pro saddle. The other one with wild red fade to lime green had poor chrome and came to me only as a frame, so it's my commuter. A great commuter with low BB, rack eyelets and long/stable geometry. I have 38c tyres on it, it's fun on fire-roads!

Older bikes had higher gearing (pre-70's) by tradition but also because early derailleur and shifting systems had limited chain-wrap and so couldn't handle wide gearing. In addition, half-step gearing patterns preferred at the time could only be achieved by close size of the front chainrings.

The "choke cable" at the time was usually stainless steel. Nice for period-correct, but modern, lined cable housing yields superior shifting performance.

It sounds well preserved. I'd refurbish it rather than restore it. I know of only one source for decals and replicating all that pinstriping, uggh!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by Birddog on 10/2/2003 at 4:53:43 AM
Thanks fellas, you are a wealth of info. The Reynolds 531 sticker IS diagonal. I measured the wheelbase by measuring center to center on the axles, and it was 104.5, and the rear axle is positioned midway in the dropout which is maybe about 4 or 5 cm's long. The bike does have eyelets, and there is a lot of clearance for large tires as well. I doubt the "choke cables" are stainless, but I'll put a magnet to 'em tomorrow. The saddle as described is fading to gray at the rear, and does seem a little like suede, so maybe it was suede. I'll check the edge underneath to be sure. I questioned the chrome because I DIDN'T see any evidence of it in some areas, this puzzled me. Is the source of decals you mention Cycleart? they seem to have what it takes if I go that way. Does anybody know anything about the adjustable stem. It has a series of 6 or so knuckles and you position the bolt in the appropriate knuckle for adjustment. It goes from around 80 cm to about 140 I'd guess. BTW, I'm keeping the two finds down at my shop, so I will check them tomorrow, no room in my garage.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by John S on 10/2/2003 at 6:43:59 PM
Bird-dog, a local custom frame builder in Northern California, Ed Litton has initiated reproducing Mondia decals as he knows of 10 or so in the country wanting decals and restoration. I think he has three in his shop.

Your stem description is of a track stem, may not be original. The Mondia's I've seen original all have TTT stem and bar's. Maybe your bike is older.

BTW, my vintage 71 has Campy bar-end shifters and Mafac Racer brakes with those half-hoods. It was really designed more as a high-end touring bike, not so much a road racer.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by Birddog on 10/3/2003 at 1:55:23 AM
Some more info, the ser# on my Mondia is 176071, which by the ones posted puts it mid 70's assuming those guys are correct. The cables are definitely not stainless, and the more I look at them the more they look like "choke" or "throttle" cables. I guess I'm not looking in the right place on the hubs for a date, as I can't find any numbers. The saddle is still a mystery, if it was suede, it was a very fine nap, I'm leaning in the direction that it wasn't. The cassette is a 14/28, and with the 52/45 makes sense to me now. A 45/28 combo is roughly equivalent to a 39/24.5. This rig was no doubt a Tourer, although the sister bike has the fenders. Perhaps it wasn't always so, there are parts of a rear rack and scuff marks on the frame. If it weren't for the paint, this bike would almost be cherry, oh well, I'll have some fun anyway. John S, are your Campy bar ends blue in color? Bars and stem on mine are botth TTT, just that the stem is adjustable. Bars are sorta narrow, 39's I think. I re-measured the frame, and it's more like 57 cc seat tube and 58.5 cc top tube.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mondia posted by T-Mar/Tom on 10/3/2003 at 2:37:10 PM
Very interesting. Most deluxe, touring models during this era would have opted for Mafac cantilever brakes and a double set of eyelets (permitting fenders and racks). This is not to say that it is not a touring model, maybe Mondia just had a different philosophy.

Curiously, there is one picture on the Classic Rendezvous site that shows a Mondia with cantilever brake studs. However, there are no eyelets! Must be a cyclo-cross bicycle.

Regarding the saddle, the nap is very fine. I have five Unicantor saddles, all of them the suede model. Two are mint, one is semi-worn and two are extermely worn. What I forgot to mention is that there may be an identifier on the underside. There should be two molded ovals, towards the rear of the saddle. The smaller one should say " CINELLI-MILANO, while the larger one reads "UNICANTOR BREVETTATA MADE IN ITALY". If we are really lucky there will also be a sticker with the number 1, 2, 3 or 4 on it. This sticker identifies which of the four different versions the saddle was.

Given you have Campagnolo Record hubs, there should be stamping on the backside of the locknuts. It should read "CAM" with a two digit "XX" year code.

I will e-mail you pictures of of the locknuts and my saddles to aid in identification. By the way, I notice from your e-mail adress that you are Candian too! I don't suppose there is any chance that we are within driving distance of each other?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   "FrankenBikes" posted by: Don on 9/30/2003 at 3:59:23 AM
Referenced in an earlier post: What examples are out there? My main commuter ride this Summer was a Bianchi Trofeo frame from our Winter swap meet, built up with early Shimano 600 brakeset & deraillers, Sun Tour Cyclone crankset, Sun Tour bar end shifters, Stronglight Delta headset, Sakae Randonneur bar and Araya 700c aero rims laced onto Mavic hubs, Gomitalia Calypso clinchers & topped off with a Gippieme "Team" embroidered leather saddle. A great steel bike for not many $.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by Gralyn on 9/30/2003 at 1:06:14 PM
The image that comes to my mind would not be a bike that looks perfectly normal....say a Japanese bike with all French componentry....it would still appear as a normal bike....my idea would be something really radical....something that looks really odd.

One frankenbike I created: I took an old Schwinn...couldn't tell what model it was....but I painted it white. I then took a set of steel (I mean steel....this had to be the same material the army uses to make tanks....I got them off a Schwinn Sport-a-bout) wheels, painted them red, mounted some nobby tires on them......what I ended up with was a white Schwinn fixed-gear, with red rims, and red bar tape. It certainly looks odd....kind of my own creation! It made me feel like Dr. Frankenstein.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by Don on 9/30/2003 at 3:44:34 PM
Yours sounds closer to the "monster" than mine. John E's post about building up bikes with non original components resonated with me & I was just curious what sort of results were being ridden out there. Judging by the interest shown by other riders, there may soon be more FrankenBikes here in Olympia. Don

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by Dave on 9/30/2003 at 3:49:21 PM
Grayln, Check out this production "Frankenbike" circa 1985 - http://www.firstflightbikes.com/MountMachine.htm

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by JONathan on 9/30/2003 at 3:56:37 PM
Great learning experience, making the Frankenbikes. Besides being fun, you save money and recycle components at the same time.
Some of my "mix&match" wonders were big hits, too. Example: Mafac racers cp's front and Weinmann side-pull rear; steel nutted rear wheel, alloy, QR front; mismatched pedals; French front der. and Japanese rear; Fr. MTB shifter on the bars with down-tube rear shifter; steel roadster bars with alloy left and steel right brake levers...the details can be hidden in many components. You could have 10 bikes that don't work and by applying the "Frankenbike" building system, you could get 3 or 4 up and running...with a cache of spare parts. Interesting thing is that a high level of skill and savvy is required to do make the bike sound. You find out what works and what fails the test, great environment for creative-problem solving.
I respect the guys who get a bike going with little financial outlay using "junked" parts
...very innovative.
Cheers, JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by Dave on 9/30/2003 at 4:32:01 PM
Another source of great "Frankenbikes" is Sheldon Brown @Harriscyclery.com. He has this one bike setup for trying out a new bike called the "Karate Monkey",(not kidding), with a complete flatbar and downturned handlebar attached to the stem. Thus you can see which bar setup is best for you. Looks like Jonathan has already done several of these type of things already.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by Rob on 9/30/2003 at 5:51:32 PM
Hey...here's a frankenbike...a friend of mine commutes on an early '70's Gitane TdF frame with early '90's Campy ErgoPower brifters matched to a mid '70's Gipiemme rear derailleur which by some happy co-incidence works perfectly(I asked him to explain it again for about the third time...something to do with cog spacing and the centering of the der. on each index step...)...wheels are modern rims with tubulars...flat handlebars...

Some of the time I'm a purist and like to ride bikes as originally intended by the designer...usually recreational rides, or if I'm trying to get a sense of what difference the various components have on overall performance. Other times...probably most of the time...I'm totally pragmatic and want a good bike that performs well for cheap $$...

While most of the modern components and systems work better than the old, the price/performance trade off isn't really there for me. IMHO, only the clipless pedals are such a dramatic improvemen,t and are such good value for money that they are what I almost always use...As for friction shifters, while tolerable most of the time, I'm thinking I would like to get a better set-up for my commute, particularly during the dark, wet winter weather...however the cost/benefit ratio isn't that appealing... Modern brakes also are certainly better, but I find old brakes such as MAFAC Competition centre pulls and some of the old Dia Compe side pulls...with good pads...pretty darn good...They must be 80% or more of new systems, and who wants to be able to lock up the wheels anyway...My 2 cents worth...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by JONathan on 10/1/2003 at 2:30:41 AM
Some good points, Rob. I have found the SunTour "cyclone" (and similar compact frictions) to be less trouble than the indexed. The index is fine, as long as it is tuned up. The cyclone could care less about ambient conditions, which true of anaolg systems in general, however, the "dedicated" nature of indexed shifter systems is a paradox to me.
As for the brakes. Who wants to lock them up? Not me! I have found that I have to be carefulon level surface as my Vainqueurs are strung pretty tight. They lock and I'm 215# pushing a "Traveler"! I have to press hard on a downhill stretch to get the stall point. There is very good control. It was a trade off. My most serious faceplant was due to braking failure, so I guess I want the maximum dissipation of energy that I can get and still freewheel. Of course this requires practicing some technique that would not be necessary in a loose setup.
My rims actually get pretty hot on a long downhill from braking...mass makes a difference, passing my lightweight partners is so much fun. Those side-pull steel brakes are a joke for me. I had to slam the front wheel into a 90 in order to avoid broadsiding a car pulling out. Since I was not going fast, the usual airborn display did not happen, but I went down pretty hard. I got a nice chain tattoo. The front brake was hard to adjust so it was off a bit, the wheel was not true, and the pads were worn. My fault, I suppose more than the brakes.
I find center-pulls can be made very precise in their adjustments, which is why I prefer those. Just a couple.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by Edward in Vancouver on 10/1/2003 at 1:44:46 PM
On the subject of "Franken-bikes", I gotta tell you about mine: It's based on a '50's Raleigh Sports frame, new axle spindle with original cups, cheap Shimano Mtn bike 170 cranks, German Union pedals. The rear wheel is an original Raleigh with a 4 speed dyno-hub, the dyno was removed and a S/A drum brake installed. Two Shimano hyperglide cogs (17 and 22) were put on the S/A driver, with a Huret Allvit and a Suntour bar-con doing the shifting. Original hockeystick chaingaurd, albeit "chopped" near the rear to accept shift changes. Front wheel is a Raleigh wheel with working dyno-hub, Shimano "tourney" centerpull brakes, and a Weinman "easy adjust" knob adjuster. Saddle is a chrome B66 chassis re-fitted with a B72 leather top. I originally started on this to use up my spare parts and sell it, but nobody wanted to buy it, I wonder why...

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:    posted by steve on 10/1/2003 at 3:27:43 PM
Compared to some of these creations, my homemade club bikes (Various S-A hubs on mainly Carlton/Raleigh frames) seem almost conservative. However, one of them obviously had had an interesting past when I found it: Ca. 1973 "Super Course" that had been given bottle bosses and a good repaint. So far normal - but the right crank was a 170mm TA, complete with French-threaded pedal, while the left crank was a 165mm Sugino. Previous owner with one leg shorter than the other?

MISC:   '60's Raleigh mixte posted by: JONathan on 9/30/2003 at 12:14:30 AM
I picked up a Raleigh mixte for $5. I liked the alloy flat, swept-back touring bars and the interesting compact looking Huret rear derailer, a shiny alloy with "Huret" across the outer wall.
The cottered cranks and chainrings are in new condition. In fact, the bike was probably not ridden very much and certainly not by anyone like me, which is good for the collector. I examined the frame closely and I noticed that the right, middle tube had a 1/8 long gap where it was joined to the dropout. The braze on the othger side is full circle. You can't see this gap unless the wheel is off and you look on the inner side of the joint. I thought that it was a shabby bit of construction, but it probably is not a problem. My question: Is this observation typical of what one can expect?
My guess is that someone did not do the job correctly. I would like to keep the frame as it is unusual enough, but would it be better to leave that defect in place. I am itching to test my brazing skill by attempting to fill it up and touch-up paint with refrigerator enamel (white). What say you?
Thanks, JONathan
Note: Anybody know if those bars were OEM? Way cool for a 3-speed roadster changeout.

   brazing workmanship posted by John E on 9/30/2003 at 12:59:37 AM
My 1980 Peugeot PKN-10 has a visible brazing void on one rear dropout, and the other one doesn't look that great, either.

   RE:MISC:   '60's Raleigh mixte posted by Titlist on 9/30/2003 at 1:02:02 AM
sounds exciting, was about to ask the name, but first did a quick net check, the handlebars (or bike for that matter) look anything like this, http://www.bikecult.com/works/archive/ralemixte.html ; bars anything like that? Will save the welding ?s for others, though on one bike I have, one of the Silca pump pegs is broke. For this, I have a clamp on peg, but I take some of these threads, to tangents, which I don't mean to do. Congrats on what sounds like a smashing discovery.

   RE:RE:MISC:   '60's Raleigh mixte posted by Titlist on 9/30/2003 at 1:04:00 AM
well, the site I cited, must be mustache bars, by the way, a Bridgestone Mustache bar bike, was at the police auction, but I didn't bid, next day, friends asked, "well was it an XO" something, I don't know. Just so much room one has.

   RE:MISC:   '60's Raleigh mixte posted by T-Mar on 9/30/2003 at 2:26:13 AM
I'm not suprised about the brazing gap. No quality system is perfect and the odd defect will slip through. Given the location, the odds are increased that it would be missed. If you had said it was an early 70's model, I would be even less surprised, given the way they were shoving bicycles though the system to meet the demand. During that period our shop saw some pretty horrid cases, primarily from the European manufacturers. The Japanese bikes and the Canadian built Sekine seemed to be relatively immune.

Personally, I would probably try the repair. First off you only have $5.00 invested. Even even you totally muck it up, you've got a lot of good parts left over and have only thrown away about $2.00. Lastly, it's a mixte and nowhere near your size, so you'll probably never ride it anyway. Unless you were planning to re-sell it, you have very little to lose.

Based on your description and the age, the derailleur sounds like a Luxe, but I recall them as being steel. Also, I thought the female Raleighs of the 60's used double downtubes and they didn't adopt mixtes until the 70's. Hmm, probably just another case of rusty brain cells. Have you tried the Retro-Raleigh website to see if you could ID the model and era and whether the bar is OEM?

   RE:RE:MISC:   '60's Raleigh mixte posted by Titlist on 9/30/2003 at 4:10:48 AM
A Huret Luxe? Is that the deal? By the way, got the V-GT Luxe derailleur working fine, may go to the co-op for some fine tuning.

   RE:RE:MISC:   '60's Raleigh mixte posted by JONathan on 9/30/2003 at 4:27:38 AM
More frequent than I had thought..this open connection at the braze joinery.
Everything is lined up OK, so it'll get off the ground. That particular junction has minimal lateral force to handle. The handlebars are a ringer for that pic. I bet that's what they are. Thanks for that spot.
Tom, the Huret is an unusual shape. It is not flat across the sides of the parallelogram, but rather convex...arched up and it appears fairly short. I will check my books to see if it pops up. The seat is a huge moped-like, spring loaded shocks, platform. Brand is Messinger. The Retro-Raleigh site has a "Record" section with a 1976 catalog picture within a picture that shows a woman standing beside one that looks pretty close. I can't see the bars very well.
The derailers are Simplexes. The Huret derailer kind of threw me off. I know the owner of the bike shop where it was sold. He no longer has the business, but is a service manager at another store. I could ask him about the bike.
Nice when the store stickers are intact, because it provides a source for information. This shop went out a while back after a few moves. They sold a lot of Raleighs. I wish I had spent more money at his shop, because it was so close to my place and it was a small shop...the kind that have a friendly atmosphere. You know, it could be '70's. The cottered cranks were around until the mid-70's.
I can't see the bike as it is at another house where I can use brazing equipment for free! If I mess up, the guy who knows his stuff can make it all better.
Brazing is fun, makes me feel like a bike builder...or at least like what it is like to be a bike builder.
I guess with these gaspipe frames, there is a large margin for mucking it up.
Thanks for the info, JONathan