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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

WANTED:   40-hole rim posted by: David on 1/16/2003 at 5:02:27 PM
I just got an AM hub on ebay and, assuming it's actually ok, I want to use it. Therefore I'd like to find a 40-hole 27" aluminum rim (or wheel). If you're willing to part with one, please email me off line.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old Armstrong posted by: Bob Castles on 1/16/2003 at 4:13:42 PM
I have an old Armstrong 10-speed in my basemets that I need to dispose of in some way and am wondering if anyone has an idea what it might be worth. It is probably from the late 50s or early 60s (I bought in in '1970 and it was fairly old at the time), has a double-butted Reynolds 531 frame and Campy derailleurs. The wheels are steel, probably replacements although I can't say for sure.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old Armstrong posted by Chris on 1/16/2003 at 8:52:05 PM
Wow! 531 tubing and Campy derailers! Sounds nice.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old Armstrong posted by Steven on 1/17/2003 at 12:03:36 AM
If the campagnolo derailleurs are original, the model will help tremendously in determining the age of the bike. There are also normally date codes on many components such as the lock-nuts of hubs, the Bottom bracket spindle. If you look, you'sll probably find something.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old Armstrong posted by sam on 1/17/2003 at 2:03:44 AM
There was an Armstrong Moth on ebay last mo.but I don't remember what it went for.There is a way to do a serch of past idems again I'm no help on that but if someone could then you would have a good idea of it's value.English L/W of this quility are rare.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old Armstrong posted by Danny Joe on 1/17/2003 at 4:30:29 AM
Dang! not knowing what an Armstrong bicycle being listed on a recent auction billing was, I decided not to attend the sale. Could I have passed on something special, I thought it was just another ballooner bike. Double Dang!!

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old Armstrong posted by sam on 1/17/2003 at 5:07:01 PM
Danny Joe ,don't beat yourself too bad the Armstrong tag was also used on Raleigh or Phillips built common 3 speeds sports bikes(worth $10-$20)Only the really nice ones like this would be worth a lot more.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old Armstrong posted by Danny Joe on 1/17/2003 at 5:59:45 PM
I do feel better now, thank's Sam. Tried to find one on the picture data base to no avail, no biggie. DJ

FOR SALE:   eBay items of Interest posted by: Joe on 1/16/2003 at 12:05:15 PM
I just thought I would let everyone know that I have just listed an assortment of N.O.S. 70's road bike items on eBay.
Among them are: Mafac brake levers and brakes, Huret Jubilee derailleur set, Huret Jubilee shifter assembly,
Simplex "Super L.J." derailleurs, a pair of Campagnola drilled brake levers, and other assorted bike parts.
These are listed under "mckishen1".
I will be listing a large assortment of items like these over the next few months.
Thanks, Joe

FOR SALE:   New (NOS) Parts Site posted by: Ginny Rini on 1/15/2003 at 9:04:07 PM
I am beginning to post parts on my new parts site, it will take some time to get them all posted (be patient). I already have a up and running Old School BMX site. Keep an eye on my new site for allot of good parts. all my sites can be accesed from http://rinienterprises.home.attbi.com

MISC:   coat king De Luxe posted by: andrew on 1/15/2003 at 4:30:19 PM
anyone who can give me brief history, info, value etc. on a coast to coast coast king de luxe 26" internal 3-speed bike would be appreciated.

   RE:MISC:   coat king De Luxe posted by Keith on 1/15/2003 at 5:35:54 PM
Sounds like a question for the English Roadster discussion or even the Ballon Tire and Middleweight discussion.

FOR SALE:   N.O.S. Normandy Hubs / eBay posted by: Joe on 1/15/2003 at 2:19:37 AM
I have listed a new old stock set of Moyeux Normandy 'luxe' Sport hubs on eBay. If anyone is looking for these go to - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7295&item=2700502164&rd=1
Ebay item # 2700502164

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by: Rick on 1/14/2003 at 6:45:04 PM
Hi .. am in search of benotto reference material???

I am in the process of restoring an Italian benotto and have reached a
dead end in restoring the decal. Particularly, I need the "bird" that
appears on seat tube decal.

It appears on the benotto page of CR but is very poor quality...would
anyone have a better reproduction or suggest a source????

Thank you for your time and consideration - Rick

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by Steven on 1/14/2003 at 10:04:18 PM
My 40's vintage Benotto has a different headbadge than the one on CR, so you should let us know what vintage you are looking for. The logo on CR is also very good to work with if you have a good photo shop program that can make it a bit crisper. Lastly, why don't you try to reach Benotto in Mexico city, there is a good likelihood that they will be able to help you.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by sam on 1/15/2003 at 2:17:58 AM
www.benotto.com.mx is the mexican web site

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by rick on 1/15/2003 at 1:58:02 PM
I have tried to work with benotto mexico before...no abla espanol....however after my intial contact ..i do receive lots of information, via email, regarding mexican tourism? : )

The vintage of my particular benotto is unknown (i wish i did..i am guessing at best)....i determined its origin by the workmanship, level of finish and quality of materials. It also has a heart cut from the bottom bracket (which i have been told is not a determining factor of origin or quality). It has benotto stamped dropouts and logo stamped seatstays. Brazed cable guides. No braze on for front cable derailleur , drillings for bottle cages or headbadge.

When i took possession of it it was coved in a layer of white house paint, then gold spray paint and the orginal color appears to have been a deep robin egg blue with silver fleck...its bare metal now. There was not trace of decals in the stripping process except for the signature benotto "race track" on the head tube.

In regards to the CR badge...i compared the lugging and braze ons to the frames displayed on the site and determined that it best resembles the main photo of senior benotto and the bicyle in the work stand.

I worked with that badge in several different programs (Photoshop, Streamline, etc.) I have tried every technique i can come up with...but the image is just too low res., the lines are too distrorted...i can get an approximation but i am trying to be exact...i have maged to reproduce everything...sans that bird!! Its the bird thats the hold up.

I would appreciate any help dating the frame. Thanks guys!!!!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by rick on 1/15/2003 at 6:45:41 PM
Oh...if this means anything to anyone...the number on the bottom bracket is 189


   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by Warren on 1/16/2003 at 2:39:04 PM
Try to find an artist "friend" who knows how to work with Adobe Illustrator and vector based graphics. It would take a pro a day to rework the CR gif into a resolution-independant eps/ai file. You could then print it in any size or quality. I could do it in a week but I have my own fish to fry.

It may be easier to find another clean example (on a bike?) and use a digi-cam to take a hi res pic and work with that. Less fuss.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by rick on 1/16/2003 at 8:25:00 PM
Well, there is the rip : ) ...I am a grpahic designer/artist.10 years electronic design experience. I will admit that I haven't tried Illustrator...but I have tried a host of Adobe products from Photoshop, Freehand to Streamline and yet I can't get a good handle on that crest. I have even tried exploding the image, going to color and rescanning it (again several different scanners and scan methods) all not to my liking.I can manage a fair approximation but there is certain degree of detail that I just can't raise becuase its such low res. I have reproduced everything but that "bird". Actually, I am wondering if its not a griffin....but then a agin..i think i am going cross eyed form working on it : ))

You are right...If i could just get my hands on a copy of an orginal or at least a clear image...I would be good to go...Thanks!!!!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by sam on 1/17/2003 at 2:25:23 AM
This may be too new but http://www.kevingsaunders.com/personal/images/Bikes/BenotoTrackAfter005.jpg

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by rick on 1/17/2003 at 2:11:04 PM
Yes, thanks Sam . I saw those photos earlier and contacted the painters that he used. They explained that the decals were reproductions and not period correct to that particular frame, however they were taken from originals but unsure of the age. In comparison to the CR crest there is a striking difference in detail...I have no idea which one is period to my frame. I have focused on the CR crest ...due to the fact that my frame resembles the photo on the CR site (see above) which appears to use the more elaborate logo. I emailed Mr. Saunders several months ago and received no reply.

I guess my biggest stumbling block is actually dating my frame...I have contact several sources..and not many people no much about dating benottos. I have been told that 198+ is mexican. Again, my dating is based on numbering (#189), workmanship and material. But as far as an actual date...I am at a loss...at best I am guessing.

Thanks everyone! Any suggestion or information is helpful

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by rick on 1/17/2003 at 3:33:34 PM
Forensic Decal Reproduction 101 : )) I revisited K. Suanders site. Please no one jump on me for this...and yes i am being nit picky...but in the name of accuracy...the reproductions aren't very accurate. There is an image on there of downtube decal and the headtube decal (BenotoTrackAfter003.jpg) I believe this to be the orginal. I am only looking at the font ...compare the tops of the T's to the reproductions on the bike...Benotto uses a thin "T" with sharp radius into the serif. Now, look at the "B" of the orginal...notice the center "b holes" of the "B"...Benotto uses a distinct large on top small at bottom...its not typical in font design...however what was used on the bike is very typical and my guess is its from a font family or a derivation known as "Times". There are other font issues but ..enough said

Ok..why bring this up?? Accuracy. If someone "fudges" part of the work..how can you be sure you can trust the accuracy of the rest of the work.

They did a great job...don't get me wrong..this is not an exact science and there is always room for interpretation...and i admit...i fell into the same trap when I first started looking at the fonts...

In regard to the bird...I would need to get a better look at the orginal...but it looks closer to the original than the type does (well..they ran Benotto Logo into the race track on reproduction..but far be it from me to say anything : )).

Its all good and what they did looks great

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by sam on 1/17/2003 at 5:21:08 PM
The old Mx Benotto site had the company history on it.I think it said 1964 was when Benotto and Whatever bike company it was originally merged.Or when Benotto of Italy made agreement for there name to be applied to(brand?) and sold in Mexico.I'll see if I can find anything still on any Mx sites---sam

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto decals posted by rick on 1/17/2003 at 7:16:34 PM
Thanks Sam! According to my research...they still produced their top of the line bicycles in Italy into the mid-80's. Apparently there was production in Mexico but the 3000 or Aguila del Tachira was still produced in Italy. I can only go by comparison and mine resembles the mod. 3000" Tour of Italy".

One major exception is the fact the the bicycle pictured has bottle cage drillings and mine does not. But considering the other factors : SL tubing, quality lugs and brazing, heart bottom bracket, number...I have to assume it is close in era and model.

Thanks! I appreciate all the help. I have made another attempt at contacting Benotto Mexico.

WANTED:   SGR Clipless Pedal Instructions posted by: Ben on 1/14/2003 at 5:42:38 PM
Hi All,

I was lucky enough to win a set of SGR Clipless Pedals(NOS/NIB)on ebay. I'm now looking for the missing instruction booklet. Any help would be welcomed.



   RE:WANTED:   SGR Clipless Pedal Instructions posted by ben feld on 1/17/2003 at 6:09:56 PM
Skip the request. I obtained the Campy instruction booklet

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bicycle Heaven posted by: Gralyn on 1/14/2003 at 12:37:32 PM
I was shown the way to Bicycle Heaven yesterday. To me - it was Bicycle Heaven - a large room / warehouse full of old and new bicycles. From high wheeler to new mountain bikes...it was all there. Balloon tire, lightweight, etc. They were hung from the rafters - the whole ceiling was hanging thick with bikes. They were so close together - you couldn't really see them good enough to appreciate them. The floor, also was completely covered with bikes - with walking / access space, of course. From krates to paramounts - it was all there. I just wish I would have had more time (I was on my lunch hour) and I wish the bikes would have been more accessible - rather than hanging tightly packed together from the ceiling. Too bad they couldn't be displayed like in a museum. I'll plan to go back sometime when I have more time.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bicycle Heaven posted by Wings on 1/15/2003 at 7:36:18 AM
How did those bikes all happen to get there? Did you discover an unused old collection or is it still kept up by an active bike lover? Just curious. I know of one similar place, but on a much smaller scale, and that is a bike shop in an old garage with high a high roof and exposed beams and they have a large bunch of treasures hanging on wires from the beams. I just go there and stand and soak it all in.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bicycle Heaven posted by Gralyn on 1/15/2003 at 1:24:39 PM
This was at an LBS. This particular one has been in business for about 75 years. I suppose the owners have collected these bikes over the years. I heard one of the (I'm supposing, owners) owners ask a customer who was just browsing...if they like antiques....and invited them to the warehouse to see the antique bikes....but they stated that they were not for sale! I inquired and was also permitted to go look. It was amazing! Next time I go look - I will try to estimate just how many bikes are there. I will also ask what their plans are for the collection. I wonder....are they going to sell them gradually on e-bay? Keep them in the family? Or maybe the collector is like me....has difficulty parting with any of them.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane posted by: Gralyn on 1/13/2003 at 4:29:05 PM
Here's a real "technical question"......
How do you pronounce "Gitane"?
It is "ji tah nee" witht he accent on the middle syllable?
Or is it "gi tah nee"? The difference being the "ji" vs gi"

Or is it "ji tahn" or "gi tahn"?

I really don't know.

And what about Bianchi?
Is that "bee ahn key?

Some of you experts out there let me know.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane posted by David on 1/13/2003 at 5:20:46 PM

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane posted by Brian L. on 1/13/2003 at 8:39:30 PM
Shouldn't that be: Bee-ahn-key?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane posted by Richard on 1/16/2003 at 6:31:33 PM
Git-an-a (a good grade), Jeet-an-a (suprise at a good grade); Be-on-shh (well below grade), Be-on-she (intemacy), Be-on-shea (a Met homer)?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   free to good home posted by: Brian L. on 1/13/2003 at 3:30:39 PM
Please see the post below. The Ikado is a tad too big for me. Looks like it would make a good comuter. I would love to trade for some parts, but would be happy to give it a home. Approx 58 c-c square. Includes set of 26" bolt-on wheels (no-name hubs w/ Weinman rims), headset and bb. Seattle pick-up only. (206) 633-3139, lv msg.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   free to good home posted by Richard on 1/14/2003 at 7:55:00 AM
Brian, theres always a loving home for bikes of any grade type or condition with me. I'll call ya.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Interesting component group posted by: Brian L. on 1/13/2003 at 3:25:11 PM
A departing friend gave me her old "Ikado" lugged steel touring bike, made in Canada. No tubing indication, likely plain carbon or straight-guage chromoly at best. The most interesting thing about it is the early Deore component group. Never seen this flavor before. Early canti calipers labeled 600, very nicely shaped forged units. The cranks are labeled Deore and have a small spider that looks for all the world like a TA 5-bolt ala' Cycletourist. The pedals have a huge threaded alloy insert to receive the pedals. Anyone ever see Shimano cranks like this? Will they accept TA rings?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Interesting component group posted by Gralyn on 1/13/2003 at 4:28:29 PM
I've seen "Mikado" from Canada.....but not "Ikado"

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Interesting component group posted by Brian L. on 1/13/2003 at 8:40:35 PM
Definitely "Ikado". The seatpost is funky cool with about 3" of fore-aft adjustment.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Interesting component group posted by Richard on 1/14/2003 at 7:49:08 AM
I saw some Dura Ace cranks on ebay once that had that big hole for the pedals. Shimano actualy made a pedal with big threads to fit those cranks as well as the inserts for using regular pedal threads. Funky stuff, but from funky stuff comes flying machines.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Interesting component group posted by Ken on 1/15/2003 at 3:34:07 PM
I suggest you email Peter Moore- pdgm@twowheelfetish.com
he knows about Deore and TA. Might have some pedals to fit your cranks without inserts. also, www.twowheelfetish.com is a don't-miss website.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Looking for info. on late ' 80's alum. Schwinn road bike. posted by: Tim P. on 1/13/2003 at 1:37:12 AM
Looking for stock pedals for this road bike, also info. on SR seatpost, (quite the brain hemorrhage of some engineer)!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Looking for info. on late ' 80's alum. Schwinn road bike. posted by Danny Joe on 1/14/2003 at 1:37:52 AM
I'm a original owner of an Ontare, the Klein-Schwinn arrangement created a Beautiful Baby in '88 with the Paramount Design Group. I believe the pedals were Suntour cage(I could go out to the barn and look for sure, nah it's to cold). The seatpost on mine has been stuck in the frame since '95 and what used to be a nut on the side of the post is as round as a button. The second year bikes were giving a numbered look to the model name. Which year and model are you looking for part's for ?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Looking for info. on late ' 80's alum. Schwinn road bike. posted by Tin P. on 1/14/2003 at 10:41:49 PM
Danny Joe, email me direct so that we may extrapolate on this subject.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   French Metric posted by: Junglejim on 1/11/2003 at 2:20:36 AM
Some one said that the only stupid question was the question not asked.... So here goes, What is the difference among French Metric threads, Italian Metric Threads, and today's plain ole metric threads? I know that the Brits do things differently but is there any standard for metrics? I'm considering buying an early 70's Gitane and have heard that the French threading is hard to match.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   French Metric posted by David on 1/11/2003 at 12:40:12 PM
Metric is a broad category! See Sheldon's website:

      French Metric posted by John E on 1/12/2003 at 2:44:06 AM
Yes, French headset and bottom bracket parts can be a bit tough to find, but they are still out there. In the U.S., French-threaded cranks/pedals and freewheels/hubs are even rarer.

Your early 1970s Gitane probably a has self-loosening, clockwise-threaded fixed cup; later French bikes, such as my 1980 Peugeot, have Swiss-threaded (anticlockwise fixed cup) BBs.

Incidentally, Italian bottom brackets are a curious blend of metric (36mm) diameter and English (24 TPI) thread pitch; go figure!

   RE:   French Metric posted by Steven on 1/12/2003 at 3:23:45 PM
If anybody is in need of a NOS NIB French threaded Campagnolo Record BB, I would be more than happy to trade one for a similar condition Italian threaded Campagnolo Record BB if you would pay for the shipping of both BB's.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   French Metric posted by Chris on 1/12/2003 at 9:24:22 PM
Too broad for me, I can't deal with it right now. I have a box that I always add to marked French and I have a huge question mark on the box. If it's new conditon old stuff and its weird and mysterious and does not fit anything I have, it is probably French.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   French Metric posted by Keith on 1/13/2003 at 6:43:50 PM
Yes this stuff is out there, but it's also going to be harder to find. Scarcity also drives up prices. The question is does it bother you to end up spending more money to build up this French-threaded Gitane, likely exceeding the cost of a complete bike when you're done? It wouldn't be hard to do. It's worth it if this is THE bike that will help you recover the fondest memories of riding in your youth. I still have my two principal bikes from my youth (Mercian Pro and Peugeot track bike) and I don't intend to ever let them go -- so I'd understand. FWIW bicycleclassics.com has French thread Phil bbs for $119, and TA bbs for $69. I've had French and Italian (I installed this one myself) Campy bbs and never had the fixed cup loosen on the French or Italian after many miles of riding. If it's Campy (w/properly cut threads and close fit) and it's torqued down properly, it's not going to come loose, IMHO.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   French Metric posted by Keith on 1/13/2003 at 6:58:02 PM
More French bottom brackets: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/french-cranks.html#bottom

FOR SALE:   Puegeot road bike posted by: Lincoln on 1/10/2003 at 9:02:01 PM
Peugeot road bicycle, excellent condition,
approx 23" frame c-c, Rigida 27 X 1 1/4 alloy wheels,
alloy cotterless cranks, Weinman brakes, Huret shifters
very nice metallic red paint in very good (not perfect)condition
ridden (and cleaned up) recently
other bike fits better, $90 + shipping
P.S. This gets advertised locally on Jan. 14, so it may not
be around for long