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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

MISC:   3 speed hub posted by: JONathan on 2/18/2003 at 5:45:24 AM
We took a trip to see relatives this wknd and I ended up with another bike! Need a scoop on a 3 speed hub. It has a us pat. 3021728 stamp on the drum. The bike is a Nishiki (American Eagle) model. Bought for the fantastic ornately engraved chrome fenders. The St. Vincent store had it for $5 and they wouldn't sell me just the fenders, so I bought the whole bike and figured out how much dismantling required to squeeze it into limited space left in the trunk. "It's a real RARE bike"; I pleaded, trying to ease the irritation of having suitcases and sleeping bags on the floorboards for 4 hours. popped the fenders and was going to give the bike away, when I noticed the gear looked new. I don't know of anything in my region except SA hubs for 3 speeds. I think it's a good parts bike, so I decided to tarp it until I can get to it.

   RE:MISC:   3 speed hub posted by David on 2/18/2003 at 12:36:43 PM
Must be Japanese. Does it have a bellcrank linkage? Oil hole? Most of the 3-speed hubs I've seen have been Shimano (bellcrank, no oil hole) but I wouldn't be surprised if other mfrs made them too.

   RE:RE:MISC:   3 speed hub posted by JONathan on 2/18/2003 at 6:30:00 PM
Greetings, David. Thanks for the lead. It has bell crank linkage and there is a center-positioned lubrication hole with a hinged plastic cover. The brakes have an adjuster screw on the left caliper arm, which is new one on me. The more I delve into bicycle heritage, the more amazed I become at the huge diversity of components. I must know 100 times more about bikes than I did 3 years ago and yet I feel as though I don't know very much at all! One thing is certain, when I talk bikes to friends, they look at me like; "What are you talking about"? I guess that means that I must know something. LOL
Back to the hub. If Shimano built the hub (as it seems to fit the data), why the US pat. No.? There is another marking on the hub. Appears like a row of 3 symbols; each one looks like a "9" with a half-arrow tip. They look like suiggles to me, but they obviously are some type of logo. I know the American Eagle was a department store offering during the bikeboom era, but compared to mass-produced bikes of today, they are seemingly better. At least they have some character. This bike rides cool; unpretentious, but cool as they can get. I think I don't have the heart to dismantle for parts. The bike was probably on the road for less than 100 miles! It's amazing how cruddy they look after being a fossil for 40 years. People would think twice about dumping these bikes if they saw them all spiffed, before making decisions about their disposition.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   3 speed hub posted by Robert on 2/18/2003 at 7:18:58 PM
The row of 3 symbols makes it sound like a Shimano 333 hub.
Some were larger numbers some smaller somewhat ornate numbers. My best guess.

   RE:MISC:   3 speed hub posted by JONathan on 2/18/2003 at 10:40:35 PM
Thanks, Robert. That sure makes sense. The rims are Araya chrome 36's. Best condition roadster rims I've seen anywhere. The stem has "Compe" trademark stamped on the reach which is about 3 inches. The bars are chrome with a very wide span so I don't hit kneecaps when turning tight. The vintage Japanese roadsters really have my respect in the workmanship aspect. The dropouts are brazed, too. A lot of cheaper bikes have the pressed fork-ends. The one piece crank is forged steel. Chainring has that dull sheen you can see on machined steel components. Nice bit of artistic design to the ring spider. The bike smacks of wanting to be ridden. Thanks, again. I suppose the; "IIABDFI" plan is wise in this case, regarding the hub. I'm just cleaning and lubing it. Probably last another 40 years.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   First Year Schwinn Letour 4-sale 1974 posted by: Paul on 2/17/2003 at 12:24:54 AM
To see pics, go to http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/wags1967/lst2?.tok=bcsVCHRBfJOqsO3r&.dir=/frame/Schwinn+Letour&.src=ph
E-mail if interested. The letour is a 23'' I also have a Schwinn Prelude 21'' 4-sale. I have pics of it too that I will be adding to the letour album.

AGE / VALUE:   Lotus Excelle posted by: Gralyn on 2/16/2003 at 7:36:24 PM
Amazingly enough - I found another bike to work on: A Lotus Excelle. (I'm up to 3 Lotus's now)I had never seen one of these before. I spotted it - in the middle - surrounded by sofas, chairs, tables, etc. I couldn't even get close enough to it to look. There were a couple other people digging in there - and I thought they were getting it - but it turns out they were after something else. I dug my way in. Of course, I wanted it. Luckily it was really lightweight - because I had to pick it up with one hand and lift it up out from amongst the furniture.
It has ChroMo frame, 27 X 1 1/4 wheels. Shimano 600 (really ornate, fancy looking shifters, front and rear der.). It also has Shimano Deore triple crank, Deore pedals and toe-clips, Panaracer tires. It's dark red with black on the head tube. Mechanically, it looks to be in great shape - the wheels are very straight and true. I will apply my standard procedure: Strip it completely, clean and wax the frame, clean and polish each component, then re-assemble. I doubt it has very much value - but I would like to know if the Shimano 600 group was original (I think it is), and the Deore triple crank - not sure if that was original or not - maybe a replacement.

AGE / VALUE:   Just bought a Miyata Pro and have a few questions posted by: James Davidson on 2/16/2003 at 1:55:07 AM
Hi All,

Just bought a Miyata Pro at a garage sale for $75.00. It looks as if it was stored and never riden. The seller said her son bought it in the mid-80s and rode it a couple of time and then went into the Army and basically forgot about it. It has a full Shimano 600 groupo with an aero Dura Ace stem and seat post. It has the aero seat stays and aero fork and is that bright Miyata blue paint, same as the Team and full-on Aero bike. My questions relate to the value of the bike. Does it have much value as a collectors bike? Should I keep it original with all vintage components? I was thinking about converting it over to an Ultegra set-up and put some miles on it. I welcome any and all opinions.



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Just bought a Miyata Pro and have a few questions posted by Warren on 2/16/2003 at 4:01:05 AM
A sweet bike...you didn't mention tubing. Ishwata 022 perhaps? My favourite. You could swap parts but why...this is a vintage bike discussion group after all. I'll bet you can go as fast on that 52/13 600 gear as the 53/11 Ultegra. Put miles on it just the same. I'm currently commuting with a mid 80's SR with 6 cogs, Champion #2 tubes and Suntour group and I love it.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Just bought a Miyata Pro and have a few questions posted by Warren on 2/16/2003 at 4:08:01 AM
I didn't really answer much in the above post. Quality japanese bikes still don't get the money they deserve...but your bike is certainly worth quite a bit more than you paid for it. If you must secumb (sp?) to swapping parts, please keep the original equipment squirreled away in a box and don't mount it on various and sundry bikes. If you do find a buyer for it someday, they will want all of the original parts. And you will get much more money for it.

    Miyata Pro posted by John E on 2/16/2003 at 2:00:35 PM
I agree with the other responses. Very nice bike, but still undervalued in the collectors' marketplace. Why bother to update the components as all? If it fits you, ride it and enjoy it.

   RE: Miyata Pro posted by James on 2/16/2003 at 8:43:19 PM
Thanks for the comments. The reasons I am thinking about changing it over to Ultegra is that I prefer the shifting and looks of the Ultegra and also I have a full, slightly used gropo in a box begging to be used again. Since the Miyata has not much value as a collectible; really a same as it is in mint condition, I don't see any reason not to do the switch other than just to keep it original. It definitely will get more miles with the Ultegra on it. Now if it had vintage Dura Ace....

Thanks again,


   RE:RE: Miyata Pro posted by Warren on 2/17/2003 at 3:42:12 AM
Ok James but you may have to spread the frame to get an 8 or 9 speed cassette in there. My memory is foggy...I think you will have to spread the rear triangle from 126mm to 135mm? Be nice to that frame or I'll have to buy it from you. 54cm did you say?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Just bought a Miyata Pro and have a few questions posted by Richard on 2/17/2003 at 7:01:53 PM
I personaly think its a big mistake to wedge wider axles into frames than what the frame was manufactured for, but to each their own. It will be another thrift shop fixer with a bent frame.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Just bought a Miyata Pro and have a few questions posted by Keith on 2/18/2003 at 4:54:38 PM
Miyata draws its own tubing. It pioneered triple butted splined tubing. Miyata has been around since the 1890s. My wife has the identical bike -- better craftsmanship than most Euro bikes of that era, IMO. A contemporary Ultegra group will require only 130mm spacing.

   Sorry to disappoint you but I checked... posted by James on 2/19/2003 at 6:19:42 AM
and an Ultegra rear hub goes in with no problem and no bending. This frame won't end up in no stinking thrift shop on account of me!



MISC:   Hammer time! posted by: Jimbo Jones on 2/14/2003 at 7:28:39 AM
I have a set of Atom 440 pedals that need to have the slop taken out. How do you get the dust caps off? I read that they pop off with a flatblade (an ebay item) but I'll be darned if I can do it.

   RE:MISC:   Hammer time! posted by David on 2/14/2003 at 10:00:45 PM
You might try [first] putting WD40 on the caps and then see if you can get it started with something like a painter's "5-in-1" tool (ask at a hardware store).

   RE:MISC:   Hammer time! posted by Bryant on 2/15/2003 at 10:29:11 PM
They are a pain. I got lucky using a screwdriver and jimmying one side up a little then prying them off with pliers.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Hammer time! posted by Jimbo Jones on 2/17/2003 at 4:30:43 AM
Thanks guys!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Barely vintage Bianchi posted by: Keith on 2/13/2003 at 7:23:55 PM
It's been a while since I've bought anything vintage, but today I purchased a Bianchi Cross Project cyclocross bike. It's lugged Deda Zero steel, made in Italy. Only vintage from the standpint that the model may be among the last of the lugged Italian Bianchis. The workmanship is solid, what you'd expect for a midrange, high production lugged frame --nothing fancy, lots of overfill, but no gaps or ugly blobs. The brazeons and cable routing are that of a traditional road bike -- not a true cyclocross bike. Perhaps the thought was to make an all-arounder rather than a dedicated 'cross bike. I was told the frame is mid-90s vintage, but I know nothing else about this bike. Has anyone else heard about the Bianchi Cross Project bikes, whether they had a good or poor reputation, etc.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A real knee slapper posted by: Richard on 2/12/2003 at 6:17:37 PM
If Ebay item# 2709129926 doesn't bring tears to your eyes and make you wet your pants, then I must be missing something.

P.S. The description is a must read!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A real knee slapper posted by Warren on 2/13/2003 at 1:35:05 PM
At least he didn't grace us with a picture of this rare frame...with the big scratch...oh, and the screw that stops the downtube shifters from moving. After I laugh, I get miffed at idiots like this.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A real knee slapper posted by Richard on 2/13/2003 at 6:31:58 PM
I liked the nonstock fork "painted to match" (:krylon?:). I bet if it had a wheel set they would have the patented "spray chrome" spokes. At that price it probably cost $5 to list it.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A real knee slapper posted by Gralyn on 2/13/2003 at 9:39:54 PM
Hey, you never know - somebody may actually bid on it! I've seen strange things happen on e-bay!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by: Junglejim on 2/12/2003 at 2:26:12 AM
I have just purchased a pair of Campy HF Hubs with round cut outs in the flanges from a very nice lady in Long Island. The hub's vintage is probably early seventies. What model would you call them? Also, what's the best way to polish the exterior?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Gralyn on 2/13/2003 at 6:34:29 PM
I believe your local X-Mart carries it, too.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/13/2003 at 7:19:14 PM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/13/2003 at 7:23:08 PM
WAIT! I thought that Record/Nouvo Record parts were clear anodized. Even if it's scratched, if you polish off the anodizing the aluminum is then more prone to eventually getting a dull, oxidized finish, so you'll have to repolish them again and again. Steven, am I right about the anodizing?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/13/2003 at 7:48:47 PM
STOP! WARNING! Someone check me on the anodizing issue before you start to use abrasives on those hubs! When I was too young to know better I polished a Nouvo Record rear derailleur and it was never the same. You can still see the spots where the polishing didn't reach -- they are, I believe, still anodized and still look nice. The rest is DULL.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Junglejim on 2/13/2003 at 10:16:49 PM
Well, that's why I asked about the best cleaner... and what is "anodizing" anyway. If it is just a treatment to the surface molecules, like gold anodized, I would think that you'd have to be careful not to cut through it. Years ago (30) I used to use Turtle Wax Polishing Compound and then finish the aluminum with car wax. Back then I didn't keep things as long either. Now, I just want to do it right.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Steven on 2/14/2003 at 1:02:18 AM
The hubs are indeed anodized and yes if you scratch away the anodization, you could have problems. Personally, I just use some oil and a cloth. That usually is more than sufficient to polish them up. A lot depends on the state of the hubs to start off with. I have some Campagnolo hubs that are over 50 years old and they polish up with oil and a cloth.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Chuck Schmidt on 2/14/2003 at 4:04:49 AM
Campagnolo hubs have never had a anodized finish. They have always been polished aluminum and any aluminum polish will work: Wenol, Semichrome, Mothers, Flitz etc.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/14/2003 at 4:08:52 PM
Thanks Steven. Chuck I'd need more evidence before I'd change my mind and agree with you. I think the anodizing is the very reason Nouvo Record/Record parts look great despite their age. I have three NR-equiped bikes, and one with a Pista gruppo, and they all look great without polishing of any kind. They have a clear hard surface that DOES NOT OXIDIZE over time. I have two hanging in my office right now and all I've ever done to these is dust them off -- they still have a mirror finish. Compare that to the old lower end Dia Compe and Suntour stuff, which gets that dull finish after a while whether you polish it or not. Bare aluminum WILL oxidize and get that dull, whitish finish. One summer in college I worked at a place called "Anomatic" -- it had an assembly line anodizing process for small parts. The head chemist told me the anoziding was only a few molecules thick, but was as hard as a diamond. You can scratch through that few molecules surface pretty easily with any abrasive. Like Steven, since my folly of youth, I use a solvent like WD-40 and just wipe the part down and it looks like new.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Chuck Schmidt on 2/14/2003 at 5:51:32 PM
The easiest test for anodization is to rub a little Semichrome or Wenol on the part with your finger. If the polish turns black there is a reaction with non-anodized aluminum, if nothing happens then the part is clear anodized. Simple and fast with no damage or change to the part!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Chuck Schmidt on 2/14/2003 at 5:56:15 PM
One other point: Not all the Nuovo Record parts are anodized. The hubs, seat post, down tube shift levers, pedal barrels and the front derailleur arms and clamp were not anodized. The rest of the parts were anodized. Like I said, try the "test". It doesn't do any damage to the part by testing.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/14/2003 at 7:04:57 PM
I've got a bunch of NR parts here in my office, and even the pedal barrels look better than the old rear derailleur I once tried to polish. (I've seen dull levers but then as parts go they are subject ot a lot of handling.) And I'd have to say that I've never seen any NR part with the kind of awful white oxidization spots I've seen on cheaper parts. But is that because people tended to take better care of NR stuff? I'm not so sure. Anyway, what's the source of your information Chuck? If it's your test I'd wonder whether you've gotten ahold of some previously polished or well-worn parts (even hub barrels get scratched up eventually from wiping off road grit). Anyway, I'm officialy undecided, but urge caution. The test sounds harmless.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Chuck Schmidt on 2/14/2003 at 8:41:31 PM
Keith wrote:
"Anyway, what's the source of your information Chuck?"

Let's just say over the past 27+ years, I've done my homework and leave it at that. I'd suggest you do your homework too.

Chuck, keeper of the Campagnolo Timeline

   Chuck's test posted by Steven on 2/15/2003 at 9:15:51 PM
I have tried Chuck's test on a few hubs that I have and all but one set react as Chuck describes, so I would tend to believe that I am mistaken with my earlier statement that they are anodized. I was always under the impression that the hubs were treated in the same way as the cranks and other parts, but as Chuck states, this may not be the case.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Oscar on 2/12/2003 at 4:12:53 AM
Mother's Aluminum Polish...best stuff in my opinion. Nothing looks better than shiney high flange hubs.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Steven on 2/12/2003 at 5:32:52 AM
The Campagnolo hubs with the circular cut-outs are the Nuovo Tipo hubs. They were the affordable Campagnolo hub in the 60's and 70's. They also had a different skewer than the Record hubs.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Gralyn on 2/12/2003 at 1:00:35 PM
Yes, Mothers Aluminum Polish....it works well.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Richard on 2/12/2003 at 6:16:12 PM
Flitz metal polish works well on hubs, stems, and cranks. Minimal effort good shine.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Junglejim on 2/13/2003 at 12:52:07 AM
I wonder where a lad might find some of mother's aluminum polish? Thanks for your advice!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Darryl on 2/13/2003 at 2:56:24 AM
You can get Mother's polish at auto parts stores. I've used Mother's and also Bluemagic Metal Polish Cream. Both good, but Mothers is best.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/18/2003 at 4:59:30 PM
I stand, well, I guess corrected since I never said I was sure one way or the other -- I simply urged caution. I think asking Chuck's source was a perfectly legitimate question, even when asking someone with great experience. I've been using Campy for 30 years, but have no timeline. No offense meant.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Chuck on 2/19/2003 at 4:11:21 AM
Keith, I didn't mean to sound "self-important" but at a certain point, when someone has stated what they have found out and how they found it out, to keep saying you are not convinced is kind of rude. At that point it is time to rub the part with aluminum polish yourself and find your own answer. Stevan took the initiative and confirmed what I found. "I stand, well, I guess corrected..." tells me you still haven't bothered to find out for yourself, have you? We all can learn something new on this forum, myself included. An opened mind is required...

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/19/2003 at 4:05:12 PM
Honestly Chuck, I respect your authority and experience. Like Steven, you've delved much deeper than I ever have into vintage lightweights, and Campy in particular. I guess I was looking for a simple answer like, "I once talked about it with a Campy rep and he said so," or "I've tested dozens of these hubs and none has been anodized" or,"Catelog # ____ says so." That's all I was looking for. I respect an authority such as yourself, but I reserve the right to question authority, and ask for details. I'm still curious, to be honest. And no, I didn't do the test because I have no reason to make a trip to a store and buy polish. None of my six sets of Campy hubs need polished -- they're all shiny and new looking, including the ones I ride every day.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Chuck on 2/19/2003 at 5:39:34 PM
Keith, if or when you polish your Campagnolo hubs with aluminum polish you'll see that they will look a lot brighter and shinier than any of the anodized Campagnolo parts on your bike. Anodizing is after all "the successful development and control of a natural oxidation process that occurs when aluminum is exposed to the atmosphere." Polished aluminum approaches the shine of chrome, a long way from the pearl silver look of clear anodized aluminum. Myself, I don't bother questioning authority, I find my own answers.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/19/2003 at 7:34:28 PM
Thanks Chuck -- I find that questioning authorities yields lots of answers ands saves lots of time (and I'd never attempt self-taught surgery on myself) so theres always occasions to learn from knowlegeable people like you, Sheldon Brown, or even a local mechanic I consider to be on par. But I can also understand the urge to explore on one's own, not because it's morally superior, but because it's fun and satisfying. Anyway, I still notice that in general, old NR parts look better than cheaper aluminum parts of the same era. For example, I've never seen an NR part with white oxidation spots (but then you've doubtlessly seen many more parts than I have). Have you observed this? (badly abused seatposts may be an exception.) If so, do you think it's because they started out with a higher degree of polish, or were made of superior alloy, or something else?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/19/2003 at 8:42:38 PM
To continue the thought, look at it this way -- lots of people read and make use of your timeline -- they don't go off and buy all of the Campy catelogs and do all of the fundamental research you did to arrive at the timeline. It doesn't mean they're lazy or uninterested. Rather, not everyone has the time or money to justify devling onto every arcane matter pertaining to Campagnolo parts. That's why it's so great to have people like you around -- everyone has some degree of specialized knowledge and experience that's helpful to others -- you have a lot -- so we don't all end up reinventing the wheel. You suggested a test, and okay, I suppose perhaps someday I'll do it some day, but it's not particularly pressing because you said you did it, Steven said he did it, so what's the point of repeating the experiment? And even if I did it, I wouldn't have a very large test sample. What's bothering me is not your claim to superior knowledge -- you have that hands down, but the suggestion that somehow I'm morally deficient or lazy for not having used your test or for having asked the source of your information. I'm still curious -- how did you arrive at the conclusion that certain parts aren't anodized? Oh well, this dead horse has been beaten enough. Apologies to all.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Chuck on 2/19/2003 at 9:40:13 PM
Geeze Keith... The whole point of this dead horse is whether a piece of aluminum is anodized or not. How did I arrive at the conclusion that certain parts aren't anodized !?!?!? Did you read the above posts? Most people have aluminum polish on hand. I'll quote myself, "The easiest test for anodization is to rub a little Semichrome or Wenol on the part with your finger. If the polish turns black there is a reaction with non-anodized aluminum, if nothing happens then the part is clear anodized. Simple and fast with no damage or change to the part!" Keith! For Pete's sake, TRY POLISHING YOUR ALUMINUM PARTS! (Yes, the suggestion is you are lazy... or at the very least, contrary!)

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Keith on 2/24/2003 at 9:04:51 PM
Whatever Chuck. You're a noted expert, and you've done a lot for vintage lightweight enthusiasts. I respect that. You finally answered my question, which was how you arrived at your knowledge, which involved personally testing losts of Campy parts -- more than I'll ever test I'm sure. That's helpful. I keep my bikes very clean, which isn't always easy since I ride in all weather, but have never tried Semichrome or Wenol. At some point I'll obtain some and try it. But I think you've really stretched this in jumping to a character judgment. I 'm a busy guy with a full time job and a school age kids, one of whom has had the flu this past week. So an extra trip to the hardware store to buy polish simply for a Chuck Schmidt test wasn't in the picture. I guess I'm one of the few households in the country without special Aluminum polish -- all I have is abrasive auto paint polish and jewelers rouge. Your work is impressive; I'm disapointed that you've pigeon-holed my over this, it's shortsighted on your part.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Polishing Aluminum Hubs posted by Junglejim747 on 2/27/2003 at 8:09:08 PM
Holy Cow Keith and Chuck, I'm going by Pep Boys on the way home to get some Mothers or Semichrome, or Wenol, or maybe all three. Then I'll be able to join your discussion. No really, Thanks for the indepth discussion. I asked Sheldon Brown the same question about polishing the hubs (incase everyone forgot the original thread) and he said that he had no opinion on the subject.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   JC Higgins 9 speed? posted by: oldmechanic on 2/12/2003 at 1:30:40 AM
I have been recently browsing at all the bicycle related sites I can find. In so doing, I have been reminded of lots of great bikes I had as a kid.

Here is one I can find no information about:

It was a black 26 inch JC Higgins 9 speed. It had a 3 speed hub very similar to a Sturmey Archer, but with 3 raised bands on it. Coupled with that was a Benelux derailleur linked to a 3 speed cluster attached to the hub. To say the least, it was strange. When I got it in 1968-69 the axle was broken on the rear wheel and I eliminated the derailleur stuff and went with a new 3 speed hub. I believe the bike was Austrian, like Steyr-Puch or something badged under the JC Higgins name.

Anyone ever heard of this? Who was the other manufacturer of 3 speed hubs besides Sturmey Archer and Shimano?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: JC Higgins 9 speed? posted by Richard J on 2/12/2003 at 6:29:40 AM
Didn't Fichtel & Sachs make 3-speed hubs? I vaguely recall a Steyr roadster with one years ago..."Sherman, prepare the Wayback Machine!"

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: JC Higgins 9 speed? posted by Wings on 2/12/2003 at 9:33:55 AM
Brampton and Hercules (Really Sturmy-Archer AW).
Sachs -- There was also an F&S which may be Fichtel & Saachs? Torpedo was from Sachs also.
Styre and sun Tour (Really Sturmy Archer AW?)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   JC Higgins 9 speed? posted by sam on 2/13/2003 at 3:00:56 AM
J.C.Higgins model 503... were made in Austria,the Sach hub was an out of patten S/A and the cyclo gears were an add on.Sometimes you see them on ebay.

     JC Higgins 9 speed? posted by John E on 2/13/2003 at 4:53:34 AM
I once owned a similar Hercules 9-speed hybrid conversion, and later an Armstrong 12-speed with a delightful set of ratios spanning 39 to 99 gear-inches. Cyclo made various 2-, 3-, and 4-speed cogsets and elongated axles for 3-speed epicyclic hubs.

AGE / VALUE:   RESTORING RIGIDA WHEELS posted by: Kevin K on 2/11/2003 at 10:53:40 PM
Hi. I've a nice set of Rigida wheels. These have the steel eyelets for the spoke nipples. The steel eyelets are rusty, some very badly rusted. Can someone advise me on a short cut to cleaning up this rust without use of chemicals. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   RESTORING RIGIDA WHEELS posted by Richard on 2/12/2003 at 1:58:21 AM
00 steel wool and elbow grease. Not much of a short cut though.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bastide name plate posted by: Jeff Nye on 2/11/2003 at 8:06:10 PM
I have a 30's Bastide track bicycle that I am wanting to finish out. I would like to find a name plate to buy, or a name plate that I could have duplicated. I have heard wispers that there is a fellow who is in the buisiness of making replica badges but do not know any details.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bastide name plate posted by sam on 2/11/2003 at 11:31:19 PM
The man you want is Jerry Turner,phone is (509)226-3522.Expect to pay big for a custom badge.www.nostalgicreflections.com I'd make sure the bike is suppose to have a badge first.Does it have holes for one? many bikes of this era used a decal only.Again Jerry makes coustom decals too---sam

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bastide name plate posted by Jeff on 2/12/2003 at 3:00:18 PM
Thanks for the tip Sam, I''fairly certain that it is a true Bastide and yes it does have holes for the badge; four of them in fact. I have seen other Bastides of the period but only in old photograghs, not enough detail to have a good idea of the looks of the badge but clearly a largish and very ornate piece.
Thanks, Jeff

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bastide name plate posted by Hilary Stone on 2/19/2003 at 4:18:03 PM
I have a couple of Bastides here in England and know of about ten others. I do have a catalogue illustration which has a very clear picture of the badge which I can do you a copy of. Can you supply some more details about your Bastide - such as frame number, location and any unusual details such as chainstay/bottom bracket, dropouts, fork crown etc
Hilary Stone, Bristol, England

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bastide name plate posted by Jeff on 2/21/2003 at 4:43:48 PM
Thank you Hilary,

I can indeed supply you with more details about my Bastide, if it is alright with you I will e-mail you some jpeg digital photos to look over, as well as other specifics on my bike. Thank you, Jeff

AGE / VALUE:   nice Mercian on e-bay posted by: Warren on 2/10/2003 at 5:16:33 PM
There's been some talk of fixed conversions. There's a nice Mercian on ebay that is very much the perfect fixed bike for the road. No affiliation etc


VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Chrome posted by: Brian L. on 2/10/2003 at 2:55:15 PM
Over the years I have read now and again some cautionary exclamations regarding the durability of all-chrome frames, but have never seen a disertation on the potential problems. Does the chroming process have the potential to set up some sort of corrosion process or otherwise weaken the joints?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Chrome posted by Ray on 2/13/2003 at 4:31:53 PM
I am by no means an expert on chroming but I do know that hardened metals can be softened but not by heating alone. The way you cool the metal is critical on the hardness. Quick or flash cooling makes a harder structure while slow cooling makes it softer. The term is anealing I believe. I would not practice this on a bike frame because you have to know something about the molecular structure to begin with or you can wind up with a frame soft as lead or hard as glass neither of which is desireable. Leave these details to professional frame and tubing builders for safety sake.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Chrome posted by Eric Amlie on 2/10/2003 at 11:11:08 PM
What I've heard about chrome, and not just on bicycle frames is that the chroming process causes what is called hydrogen embrittlement. Apparently hydrogen atoms get into the molecular structure of the base metal being chromed making it brittle and subject to cracking.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Chrome posted by Hallyx on 2/11/2003 at 8:28:41 AM
So-called "hydrogen embrittlement" can be prevented by heating the chromed part for a while(don't know temp or time). Lots of industrial chrome being used on critical parts without any problem.

Pitting, on the other hand....

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Chrome posted by Keith on 2/11/2003 at 5:20:05 PM
I'm far far far from an expert, but two things I've read about chroming is that cleanliness is crucial, as in the acid pre-treatment must be completely removed before chrome is applied (?), and that there are different grades of chrome having to do with whether the chrome is applied after a layer of copper or directly to the steel. I think there's even a triple plated grade, which involves an additional metal after the copper, maybe nickel? Anyway, I'm sure someone on this site can fill us in more.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Chrome posted by Willie L. on 2/12/2003 at 8:06:30 PM
As far as plating goes, hydrogen embrittlement is a potential problem only if the steel being plated is very hard, like more than 35 HRC hardness. The aircraft industry "bakes" plated steel parts at 400F for several hours after plating.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Chrome posted by Willie L. on 2/12/2003 at 8:10:16 PM
Oh, I forgot to add, corrosion is a real possible problem for all plated parts. Most chrome plating solutions are acidic and if the plated parts are not rinsed and dried well, they tend to rust later on.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Chrome posted by Plethora Deliades on 2/25/2003 at 5:05:08 AM
This stuff about "hydrogen embrittlement" seems pretty unlikely. Good chrome plating consists of a layer of copper, relatively thick, a thinner layer of nickel, and a very thin flash of chromium. It's hard to see how this could harm the underlying steel in any way, especially since only the surface of the steel is touched by the copper-plating solution (copper sulfate, I think...).

As for other problems, chrome will start to corrode, largely by pitting, if you don't take care of it. Especially if the bike is ridden near the seashore, you can start to get pits in the chrome after a single ride. Also, if the job isn't done well, the plating can start to peel after some length of time.

MISC:   Saddle holes posted by: David on 2/10/2003 at 11:54:22 AM
Older leather saddles often had a row of holes punched near the lower edge. Were those intended for laces to keep the edges of the leather from chafing your legs? (I've never seen them used that way, but...?)

   RE:MISC:   Saddle holes posted by Beaver Charlie on 2/10/2003 at 2:12:19 PM
They were used to compensate for saddle stretch after the adjusting nut was used up. String a lace through the holes and cinch up.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rossignoli info wanted posted by: Gee on 2/10/2003 at 6:45:56 AM
Just got a Rossignoli frame, very lightweight, campy dropouts, no braze-ons at all, anyone know anything about these bikes?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rossignoli info wanted posted by Steven on 2/10/2003 at 11:07:25 PM
Rossignoli is one of the biggest retailers of bicycles in Milan Italy. They have long had a line of bikes that they sold. I believe they have not been made on the premises for quite some time. Historically they were likely made on the premises. Many other Italian brands do the same. If you go to Treviso, you will see many Pinarello branded bikes that have nothing to do with racing.