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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Finding Bikes... posted by: Rob on 3/10/2003 at 5:57:11 PM
FWIW...to offer encouragement...Saturday evening I stopped by a large thrift store near where I live, as I do maybe once every couple of weeks, just to see what they might have...it's been scarce for months...anyway there were only about three bikes...one immediately caught my eye...a Nishiki Landau, late '70's..a decent average sort of bike...alloy Arraya 27x1 1/4 rims, Dia Compe Superbe sidepull brakes, alloy bars (Nitto or Win, I forget at the moment), SunTour drive train (V-GT der.), except for some reason a Shimano 600 crankset and Shimano FD...not original I'm fairly sure). Nice and light. Nothing really exciting but worth picking up, if only for the parts...$30CDN ($20US)

Keep looking but not desperately...the bikes may not be as plentiful, but they still show up!!!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Finding Bikes... posted by JONathan on 3/13/2003 at 3:23:55 AM
Just a trickle of LW's making it to the "thrift" stores. Salvation Army and St. Vincent De Paul are pricing slightly above last year; about $25 US +/- $15 US. There was a Raleigh "technium" (Aluminum) for $85 US. There were 3 whipped Peugeot's (UO-8 types) a Schwinn "collegiate" with faded blue paint job a Raleigh lady's "sports" (1977, from hub stamping); a nice Univega with faded silver paint. All the rest were cheap MTB's and tiny bikes. Goodwill is not a bargain spot. $49 and up for OK bikes. A new, recent Taiwan Schwinn beach-comber single speed was $69.99.
I ollked at a Peugeot with Reynolds 501 tubes, but they wouldn't price it while I was there. I went back the next day, it wasn't on the floor, but it probably was priced higher than the other bikes. I think it's going to be harder to find those $10 bargains; or even the $25 bargains. I guess if people pay $49.99 for a bike that needs another $50-$75 to make roadworthy, then it's hard to expect to see those bargain prices. Happy huntin'. JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Finding Bikes... posted by Max M. on 3/13/2003 at 5:25:56 AM
I picked up a late 70s early 80s British Falcon Cotswalds. It is a 531 frame and fork that had mostly Huret and stronglight components but the rear derailleur and hub had been changed to lower end Shimano. Bike has Weinmann alloy cantilever brakes and rack eyelets. I paid $90 at a local pawn shop after negotiating on the price. He wanted more money for a Nishiki. You have to look hard sometimes for the good deal.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Finding Bikes... posted by Rob on 3/10/2003 at 10:35:04 PM
...that's Vx-GT...the alloy one...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Finding Bikes... posted by Gralyn on 3/11/2003 at 4:11:32 AM
That's great that you found some bikes. I'm keeping my eyes open here - but so far - it's been bone-dry.

MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by: Bryant on 3/9/2003 at 4:40:56 PM
Hey all. I'm about to rip into my Schwinn World Tourist and I thought I would ask the experts first. Is there anything I should watch out for or any special tools I need other than the the ordinary ones) for removing the bottom bracket on a bike with a front freewheel system? Also is the rear hub pretty much standard or is there something I should look for there too??
When I first got the bike,I spent about five minutes turning the cranks backward and seeing nothing move but the crankarms. Weird!!

   RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by Bryant on 3/9/2003 at 9:32:22 PM
Okay, I started. Now I have questions on a Shimano Positron II rear derailleur. Seems instead of a cable, it uses a thin stiff wire, and I'm not sure how to remove the cable/wire housing from the derailleur.
I also removed the crank arms, but am stumped on how to get the bottom bracket/front freewheel off. This is fun, but I can use a little guidance. Anyone do this before??

   RE:RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by Wings on 3/10/2003 at 4:00:19 AM
Why are you doing this?
I have attempted to remove the crank arm before and it is no problem taking it out of the bottom bracket shell but I never could remove one part from the crank arm to use the crank arm on a regular bottom bracket bearing set.

The stiff wire is so it pushes and pulls.

Again, why are you trying to remove the crank arm? One can certainly get it out. But again I have never been able to salvage the crank. At some point it seems like there was a lot of loose bearings also.

   RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by JONathan on 3/10/2003 at 9:00:50 AM
I have a Suburban with the Shimano Positron (Front Freewheel System) derailer. I think it was the first index system. The unit was placed on the medium level bikes which afforded little opportunity for refinement. Your question is one of interest to me. I think I'll look into it; let you know. I have a box that is full of reminders of my prior mechanical exploits into similarly obtuse systems. Be prepared to toss it, if you push on the wrong lever. They probably had special registration templates to get it all together. None of my books have anything. Can't you lube the BB bearings WITHOUT tearing into the freewheel? I try to keep the "entropy" factor to the minimum. I am curious, too.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by JONathan on 3/10/2003 at 9:24:14 AM
CORRECTION. THe early indexed system was I believe the "PPS" which is Positron Pre-Select. I think there may be a clutch mechanism that makes the cluster different from a fixed gear hub. I'd hope so. Too bad this wasn't perfected. There is constant chain drag while coasting. Good luck. JONathan.

   RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by Bryant on 3/10/2003 at 12:19:30 PM
I got the bottom bracket out. wasn't too hard, the left side has a lock nut and cone much like a wheel hub. Now I can clean it up lube it and put it back. I'll leave the freewheel assembly alone. Too much excitement there.
Cranks on this thing aren't regular tapered square, but are star shaped. Must have been an early attempt at the splined/octalink style. It's pretty cool being able to track the evolution of bike parts this way, dead ends and all.
Decided discretion is the better part of valor, I'm keeping the Positron Rear derailleur attached to the rigid wire so I don't mess anything up. Make it a bit awkward in cleaning but I'll manage.

   RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by Dave on 3/10/2003 at 3:51:16 PM
My wife has a '79 Schwinn w/the front freewheel but a friction rear derailler, the purpose was to be able to shift w/o pedalling.A friend has a '85 Suburban w/the complete system, my understanding is you cannot get these part anymore so be careful.

   RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by Fred on 3/10/2003 at 4:45:08 PM
I have 4 bikes with this system and I am very happy with the performance even though it is usually disparaged by bike folks. My bike shop experts have stated that this system does not work but I have had no problems with it. It's too bad it wasn't used and improved for more general use. The main advangage is that the detent action is closer to the point of action thereby elimiminating cable stretch from the equation. Like many inventions however, later shifting systems, while not as technical interesting, have been developed that provide superior performance. As for dis-engaging the cable from the deralier, I have replaced cables with no problems. I don't remember the details and I don't have access to the bikes at present. Good luck and enjoy your Schwinn.

   RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by Jimbo Jones on 3/11/2003 at 8:52:57 AM

I had a sears road bike with the positron and each cog of the freewheel freewheeled independantly. The freewheel was lock-tited onto the hub from the factory. ( also had a disc brake back there, crazy stuff) I took it apart just out of curiosity and never put it back together. At this point I cant remember if such mechinizations make any sense but it worked. If it aint broke...

   RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by Bryant on 3/11/2003 at 12:07:44 PM
Well I did get the rear cluster off (can't really call it a freewheel because it ain't) Looks just like a regular shimano 5 speed freewheel only it doesn't move. I wonder if you could make a 5 speed fixed gear (that doesn't sound right) with the cluster. maybe next winter when I'm tinkering.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Front freewheel system posted by Oscar on 3/11/2003 at 12:27:10 PM
I recall hearing that there is some clutch system in the rear that won't alloy it to work as a fixed gear.

   I would not try a 5 speed fixed gear? posted by Ray on 3/11/2003 at 2:57:38 PM
Just think about it for a second. You would have to have a derailleur to change gears and take up the chain slack. Once you got rolling the rear cogs would force the chain forward taking the slack from the bottom of the loop and transferring it to the top. Going down hill just slightly will produce a bad chain derailment then the fixed rear cogs would just crunch it up into a ball and your next introduction would be to the pavement.

   5 speed fixed gear posted by John E on 3/11/2003 at 5:38:05 PM
Ah -- the eternal quest for a multispeed fixed gear, epitomized by the rare, pricey Sturmey Archer ACS hub. There must be a marketing opportunity here. For example, I would be quite receptive to a multispeed system with a hand-operated clutch to switch between freewheeling and fixed-gear operation.

WANTED:   Shimano AX brake part posted by: bacoes on 3/9/2003 at 3:19:50 AM
I camed across a pair of AX brakes that I thought I might put on one of my projects. Does anyone know where I can find the triangle that the cable pulls up to work the brakes?

   RE:WANTED:   Shimano AX brake part posted by Ray on 3/10/2003 at 3:07:15 PM
I had to go out of the country to find this part. I could find none here. Once you have it you will find that these brakes look great but perform lousey. I have been riding a set for a while now and no matter how hard I squeze the brake lever it can never lock the wheel. Sort of like anti lock brakes for a bike. If you like quick responsive brakes then use these for show only.

AGE / VALUE:   Trek 520 vs 560 posted by: P lavery on 3/9/2003 at 1:17:45 AM
There a couple of vintage treks on EBAY now. One is a n old
520 and the other is a 560. I know the current model 520
is Trek's top of the line touring bike but where did the
560 fall into their model range ? Does it have higher end
components or just a different frame geometry ?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trek 520 vs 560 posted by Bryant on 3/9/2003 at 4:40:25 PM
I have a 1987 Trek 560. It has Shimano 105 components and came with Bio-pace rims, and a 531 frame. It is primarily a road race bike, more responsive geometry than the 520. The 560 series was a mid range for Trek, with the 300 and 400 series as entry level and the 700 series and higher as a high level. Check out the vintage Trek web site at www.vintage-trek.com Great site for Trek info and Skip will answer your questions if you can't find the info

FOR SALE:   '78 takara ladies 10-sp posted by: mike. on 3/7/2003 at 7:44:20 PM
beutiful takara ladies 10-speed. twin top tube-to-rear-dropouts design. very short ladies 3"rise bar. shimano ff front freewheel drivetrain. all complete and original. near mint condition. any offers considered. thanks.


AGE / VALUE:   Ruegger bikes posted by: Eric on 3/7/2003 at 3:17:42 PM
I recently picked up a Ruegger bike and can't find any information regarding this brand. I believe that the model is the Spezial, since that is what's labeled on the seat-tube. It's painted a metallic green and fades to chrome on the rear stays with campy dropouts and has metallic gold lettering. the fork is chrome too. the joints are lugged with some of the gold paint to highlight their shape.

It came with a mix of Shimano 600(with the scroll work)- cranks, brakes, headset, rear derailleur - and Dura Ace parts - Hubs, brazed mounted front derailleur. I haven't determined whether it has a 6 freewheel or cassette. The bike seems like a very nice bike but i would like to know more. If anyone has heard of this bike and can tell me a bit more that would be great.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ruegger bikes posted by Gralyn on 3/8/2003 at 5:08:05 AM
Wow, Ruegger.....that's another one to add to the list....is anyone compiling a list? Maybe I should. I am always surprised at the many different names of bikes. I have never heard of this one. Maybe someone has.

AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane "nobly" 10 speed posted by: JONathan on 3/7/2003 at 3:43:13 AM
This bike is really a "new" bike! I mean it's hardly got a scratch or wear signs anywhere in the DT. Motobecane 10 speed lady's frame (not a mixte). Can anyone come up with a time frame for this bike? Info: ornate lugs; no tubing type designations on the tubes; Nervar cottered cranks; Weinmann 730 sp brakes; Normandy hf hubs; Rigida 27x1.1/4 in. steel, "stipled" rims; Pivo stem; tourist type steel bars; full fenders; Simplex front and rear derailers. One downtube has; "made in France". The other has; "Motobecane Nobly". I couldn't find anything about this model. Special features: Sandem 3w. generator and light; full fenders with nice paint stripping and the most uncomfortable seat I've ever come across (padded seat with no padding). The seat looks new, like they forgot to put the spongy stuff under the plastic sheath. Swallow "high pressure" tires (85 psi, max.). The bike runs quiet and smooth. There is about a 1 in. square spot on the downtube that looks like it could have been where there was a sticker. There is no tube identifier sticker. Help a guy out. Thanks, JONathan.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by Wings on 3/7/2003 at 8:42:04 AM
Motos seem to be my favorite! I really enjoy giving them a test ride.
I would think it was made in the 70's but I am not the time expert! I just wanted to say I think they are a great bike.

I had one a year ago. It was black with red accents and trimmed with gold. What a great looking and riding bike!

Ride it!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by Walter on 3/7/2003 at 4:46:18 PM
That sounds like the ladies version of the "Nomade." A men's model was my first "real" bike and dearly loved as well as extensively modified. Mine was a 1977 or 78 and Moto was using cotterless cranks throughout their line by then but I remember seeing numbers of Motos with cottered cranks. I'd guess yours is 1976 or earlier.

Missing sticker probably said 1020 or 1040 Hi-Tensile steel. There were cro-moly mixte frames but not what was called a "ladies" frame. Moto had very nice fit/finish compared to other Boom imports and if yours is near-NOS I'm sure it's pretty.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by JONathan on 3/7/2003 at 5:34:28 PM
Thanks for your expertise. I figured that there were a few "Moto" experts who could set me straight. I would guess early '70's, but the cottered cranks threw me off thinking it was '60's. The spindle has a center depression that makes crank extraction easy. One more subtle feature that offsets this bike from its cohorts. This was a tough one to estimate age for me, as the bike looks new, so it could 5 or 55 years from manufacture. Thanks. I love riding this particular bike. After reading the accounts above, I just had to take a closer look. You're absolutely right. It is splendidly finished. I'd like to make this a commuter, but the frame is only 20 in. from axle-cp to too seattube. I have seen the "Nomad" model, but I never saw a primo-condition machine, Most were pretty tired looking with bent stays or "sandblasted" paint.
I clamped on a quality touring seat which was the necessary ingredient to make the bike a first rate cruiser. You're right about their appeal. Very intangible. The mass produced bikes lack the individuality this bike invokes, and yet this was a mass produced bike! Amazing. Especially noticeable with side-by-side comparisons at he LBS. I could become a "Moto" fan, no problem. The maroon and gold enameled paint job is the best I've seen on ANY bike. Looks like a Ferrari paint job. Thanks, again. JONathan.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by Dave on 3/7/2003 at 10:09:49 PM
You could look on the Simplex rear derailler cage, I used the one on my '73 Peugeot U-08 to get a 4 digit date code to get the manufacturing date.I also have a mid-70's Mercier that came with cottered cranks.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by Chris on 3/7/2003 at 11:12:05 PM
I send out literature and one was a Motobecanne booklet and does it get posted up on the web page? Nope!
Do I have another Moto booklet? Yes. One left and it's going up on my web page as soon as it's ready to go. No more donating material and asking folks to do it. Gotta do it myself if I actaully want to be contributing and see it and see others see it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by Bryant on 3/8/2003 at 1:28:44 AM
Hey Jonathan,

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by Bryant on 3/8/2003 at 1:34:24 AM
Hey Jonathan,
I picked up a nice 1978 Nomade at a thrift shop awhile ago. At first I thought it was gray, but that was just the dirt and crud on it. It's actually a pinkish purple color and in excellent shape, just missing an "M" crank dust cap from being complete. Probably as close to primo condition as I've seen. I've got some pictures if you want to see it. I haven't ridden it yet. Waiting for the road salt to subside some. Moto's are special. The Nomade was entry level yet a beautifully made bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by JONathan on 3/8/2003 at 5:43:12 AM
Funny how those "Nomades" spin big mileage. I saw one where I got the "Nobly" (lady Nomade) about 6 months back. It was a "flash" red 25 in. with a bent left seatstay. I could have picked it up for $10 US. Wished I had. The stays can be realigned or repaired. I studied the bike for a few minutes and it struck me that these were thoroughbreds, built for the road and lots of it. A pic to compare with my Nobly would be cool. Are you planning to fix your Nomade for riding? I got some 9mm cotter pins at the LBS for the cranks. I didn't expect to score those at a store! Everything is cotterless these days. And the 9.5 mm (standard) ones would be what I'd expect, if they had any at all. There are so many "boats" on the floor for the novice riders. I bet Nomades would sell bigtime if they were produced like in the '70's. These bozo looking bikes are going for $250-$500 US. Why not sell the Nomades? What happened to real bikes? Does Motobecane still make bikes?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by David on 3/9/2003 at 1:07:31 AM
From ca 1976 catalog
Nobly 10 (bottom of the line - below Nomade)
21"-23" men's frames
19 1/2" ladies'
Fully lugged (Bocam) steel frame
Tourist bend bars
Pivo stem
Weinmann sidepulls
Simplex Prestige w/stem shift
Atom or Suntour cluster
Nervar steel crank w/guard
Union rubber pedals
Steel 27" rims
Normandy hubs
SS fenders, carrier, kickstand
Blue or "coffee" color

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by JONathan on 3/9/2003 at 5:48:08 AM
Thanks David. "Bottom of the line"? That's some line, if that is the dregs. I wouldn't drink coffee if it was this color, but everything else is right on. What I took for maroon is probably the golden brownish of "coffee". Although a color expert (artist friend) called the fenders "yellow ochre"...with "golden brown" for the frame. I think I just found a rider. I won't tell them it's the "bottom of the line", but rather a "rare, special edition". Wonder why the lady's frame was bottom of the line? Maybe there was a "men's" Nobly. I wish I could put out a paint job that sweet. Real nice work. The roll-factor (my term) was a 2, on a 4 scale. Only 3 bikes have gotten a "1". It's a 0.3 mile coaster run down my street that has become a standard test for anything I fix. It looks a little strange to some people, who probably wonder what I'm doing. Thanks for the scoup. BTW, the "Nomade" would be a "1" I'm sure.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by John on 3/10/2003 at 9:57:15 PM
In answer to "Does Motobecane stil make bikes." Why yes, they actually make very good bikes still, check out theire web site. The new ones are pretty good value. You can buy a full Shimano Ultegra for about $1,000 and a full Dura-Ace for about $1600. Don't mean to talk about new bikes here, I ride mostly vintage (Condor, Centruion, Don Farrell), but I do own a new Motobecane Grand Record. Its pretty nice, aluminum, carbon for, nice to have at times, and only cost me $525 brand new. Its very comfortable, not as fast as the Condor, but I'm sure a lot of folks here have a new bike or two in their stables.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by: Keith on 3/5/2003 at 2:31:28 PM
In response to several recent posts about scarcity of lightweights, I have a couple of ideas for getting nice bikes at less-than-eBay prices. I too used to go to garage sales and thrift stores regularly, and found some noce mid-range bargains that way. But the best deals I've managed to get have all been by word of mouth through the local cycling community. What I'm suggesting is, if you don't already belong to a local cycling club, join one, and subscribe to its newsletter. What I've experienced is that serious, knowledgeable cyclists will often be willing to "dump" a wonderful vitage bike just to make room. The last bike I bought was an example of that. The seller and I actually went to a third party to establish a price, and this was done, but the seller still sold it to me for 1/2 of the price the thrid party came up with (using eBay comparables in part), just to get rid of it quickly. It's also helpful to establish good relations with local bike shops. People walk in with old bikes ready to give them away, and the lbs may pay a small amount, mark it up minimally, and pass the good deal along to you. I got my Bottecchia Pro that way. I also purchaced very nice a Raleigh International for less than $300 by word of mouth through a lbs. Yet another way is to get to know your local bike messengers. I got my all-Campy Cannondale for a song from a messenger who needed quick cash to buy yet another bike. One of the advangtages of these methods is that in general you'll be looking at better than mid-range bikes for the most part, since serious cyclists tend to have better equipment. So, keep looking and don't give up!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Gralyn on 3/5/2003 at 4:49:42 PM
Yes, I have thought of trying the "word-of-mouth" thing. If I let enough people know that I am interested in old lightweight bikes - then eventually people would let me know where they spotted a bike - or they will tell someone to give me a call, etc. I know - it used to work when my primary hobby was Datsun Z cars. People were always telling my where one was. Well, even one Saturday - someone just brought one by the house....I bought it for a song.
I just haven't done it - but I need to get the word out.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Oscar on 3/6/2003 at 12:30:45 PM
Here's a lead...buddy up with a recumbent rider. Many are on recumbents because they can no longer ride upright. Bikes don't look good with dust in the garage, and recumbents take up a lot of room.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Gralyn on 3/6/2003 at 12:42:44 PM
Yes, I made another round today - hitting some of the usual places - not a lightweight in sight! It's just been too long. It's like - they're gone!

Well, I will certainly be spreading the word - and letting people know I have this old lightweight bicycle hobby.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Warren on 3/6/2003 at 1:24:49 PM
I have to echo Keith's idea's. Yes, you may happen upon a "gift" bike at a garage sale but that is very much a lottery. I've made associations with many people in my local cycling community and now I know where to go if I need a Raleigh Super Course for a fixed frame beater. You can also sell bikes back to these same pool to generate cash for a different project. You do need a little more money to play at this game but you end up with a much nicer collection of bikes.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Kevin K on 3/6/2003 at 2:07:33 PM
Hi all. Our town has a weekly newspaper. A small want ad is $3 per week. I simply wrote" Bikes wanted " with a phone number and recieved several calls. Some people will want you to basically tell them what the bike is worth and have no intention of selling. To that I've learned to respond " It's only worth what someone is willing to pay. I'm willing to pay ........." Others have had the bikes since they were teenagers. They know the bike isn't worth alot but they don't want to be the one to throw it out. Even when they know you are just using it for parts they feel better about about getting rid of it. The ad worked pretty well overall and for $12 very cost effective. Kevin K

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Brian L. on 3/6/2003 at 3:28:44 PM
Two points worth considering in this discussion:
1) I take it as a positive sign that there is less supply because that implies that more people are rediscovering bikes as a mode of exercise, socialability and transportation. There's legislative power in numbers. 2) Less old classics and basic transportation ending up in landfills - that can only be a good thing. How many bikes do we all need?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Dave on 3/6/2003 at 4:48:21 PM
I also know a source that is a combination of sources: A friend named Mark, who is a Bike messenger was at my LBS recently, he refurbs & resells vintage LW's & Mountain bike at Coffee Shops near a University campus..

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Art on 3/6/2003 at 11:42:39 PM
I've tried all the methods listed and they all work, if you're patient. I have one neighborhood bike shop that I use exclusively for all parts, tubes, etc. I've given him a good number of bikes that I've found either for free or that I've picked up at a yard sale for next to nothing -women's, children's, rider's that are too small for me...and in turn, he keeps his eyes open for things that I might like and offers them to me first. Car swap meets and lowrider and balloon tire swaps also have been sources for me for saddles and parts.
One of my last finds was a 30's Schwinn motobike with coffin tank and original paint. It was the cliched..do you have any bikes for sale? question on my part. The lady of the house didn't respond until I was off the property. We have an old Schwinn, do you want to see it? I did and offered the owner $100 which he gladly accepted. I wasn't looking for a bike when I asked the question. It's part of my routine at a yard sale. Obviously I have hundreds of no's, but in this case I hit pay dirt. Similarly, one Sunday morning, my son and I went to breakfast. We rode by a yard sale three times and finally stopped. I found a early 70's Bob Jackson frame and fork. perfect size, for $5. The seller was a collector, but the paint was beat and even though he knew that I knew that the frame was good, he gave it to me for nothing.
I think the key is patience. I think you have to always be looking but not be manic. I used to buy any piece of crap if it was cheap enough and if it looked like a bicycle. I had heard the advice of putting your money into one valuable bike rather than twenty pieces of junk that you can't ride or unload but I didn't follow it.. It took me a while to really understand that advice.So I still look, but I leave a lot of low end stuff for other guys. I can walk away from stuff I used to buy. It's a zen thing, when you stop looking you find it.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by JONathan on 3/7/2003 at 1:17:50 AM
I agree, that there is some kind of "force" that works when you are relaxed...just cruisin', then the bikes appear out of the blue. Yesterday, I wasn't looking for a bike, but I went near a Sal.Army Store, so I pulled in and there was a really primo-condition Motobecane "Nobly" for $15 US. I wasn't looking and there was a nice bike. I had to chain it to a pole after I bought it as they were closing and I was on my bike (out for a cruise). I biked home and returned to make the recovery. I know these bikes are called "beaters", but to me they are superior products that are realizing some value. The average person can tune them up, even perform repairs without fearing a major expensive mistake. Kinda like older cars...a guy can work on them. I recently attempted to fix Shimano Indexed shifter mechanism and the assorted little springs, pins, cams, etc. are in a plastic bag right now.
I think there are more riders who enjoy the "freedom" of riding who are fixing up older LW's. Also, it's the law of diminishing returns; only so many were made and there is continous depletion. A lot of my experience with friends and associates is that they aren't into racing nor are they into long range touring, so an expensive machine is not worth the bucks. The bike stores don't seem to have nice quality road bikes...only "high quality" road bikes. That leaves good quality used machines that may need a little work, but are well worth the effort. Hence, there are more riders looking at thrift stores and garage sales for a bike that fits his/her requirements. Price and value aren't always in agreement, and in the case of vintage LW's, the value exceeds the price most of the time, IMHO.

   what can you do with them??? posted by G Main on 3/7/2003 at 11:13:16 AM
i run a bike shop and am beseiged with old road bikes. i just gut em and toss them into the scrap heap. sometimes i keep nice ones but by and large its off to the soup can for most of the ones i get. seen all kinds of them, in a college town. like this one i have now its a World Traveler
looks like a schwinn until you get close. its got aluminum handlebars, with fingertip shifters and nice suntour equipment. blue paint over a chrome lugged frame, very pretty but it weighs a ton. what can ya do? Got a Miyata 914
real nice bike alloy frame light, new tires, all rebuilt, cant get my repair bill back which it was abandonded in lieu of. this may be a good thing as someday people will look and they will all be gone.

   RE:what can you do with them??? posted by JONathan on 3/8/2003 at 6:29:47 AM
Things have changed. I see a lot of new bikes on top of new cars. The vintage LW's are easy to repair and they offer a good ride for few bucks. I like to fix them up for fun. Give some away. Ride 'em. Personally, I'd like to see bike shops that have a lot of old bikes that are fixed up for sale. A lot of people around me see no value in fixing a bike. I enjoy it. That's why I visit this site. There are a lot of people interested.

   RE:RE:what can you do with them??? posted by Fred A on 3/8/2003 at 1:05:39 PM
I love the old LW's. They're easy to repair & detail and a lot of times I've gotten very lucky at picking some up at garage sales. Heck, even curbside will sometimes net you a find. The other night, the "Call Of The Bike" sounded and I brought home a Velosolex in really nice shape. QR Normandy hubs, Nrevar cottered crank, Simplex components, etc. The bike had no rust and the wheels were glistening. Reason for the curbside-toss? The Simplex plastic front derailleur gave up the ghost. Owner figured it wasn't worth replacing, I guess. Bike has some scratches but no big deal. It was taken care of and never left outside, apparently. Well, another one for the collection (after I replace the front derailleur with another Simplex from my stash)
Fred A

   RE:RE:RE:what can you do with them??? posted by JONathan on 3/8/2003 at 11:03:01 PM
It's great to be skilled working with hands. I recall with ernest disgust how I spun fittings off the frame with blissful ignorance; only to discover that I ruined the part or trashed on the frame. Now, I shutter to think of doing that to a righteous LW. I can actually tear a bike down and put it back in very good running condition. I keep learning more as I go, knowing that I know less and less. Lately, I've taken some instruction in the art of brazing. That's a whole new dimension. Then there's the painting! That is a complete "universe" of applied artistry and skill. I keep experimenting, trying to improve. The whole LW mystic, IMHO, centers around perfecting a skill; to see the results and to know that it is good. I just finished a 1961 Schwinn "breeze" for someone to ride for fun and exercise. A one-speed with coaster. The bike was abandoned in a yard for 40 years. It took a long time, but now it's looking awesome. The paint is faded, but with wax on it and chrome fenders shining. That's what it's about.
The leather seat is OK after some conditioning with saddlesoap. $16 for a pair of handlebar grips! Oh well, had to have those replaced. What was fun? Repacking the bearings on the peddles. Had to bend the locking tabs to slide the spindle out. Putting it back was not easy. It all adds up to a great feeling of accomplishment. Now, I'm working on a Raleigh "sports" and several more that are waiting patiently for their makeover. Regards. JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Rich on 3/9/2003 at 10:08:53 AM
Three years ago, I was driving thru a small upstate NY village and noticed a flyer for the local police auction. To shorten a long story, I found a 56cm Bob Jackson complete! and 'bought it' for $35.00. What I've sence discovered about Bob Jacksons is the factory (back in Leeds England)or what's left of it, seems very supportive of their bikes and helping owners refurbish them. Small town/village auctions might be a great 'hunt' for bikes and they usually arn't overrun with cycle folks

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Alternative markets in time of scarcity posted by Gary M on 3/10/2003 at 5:31:39 AM
I agree on small towns where else can ya drive for lunch and find a complete all original 55 Schwinn Jaguar setting by the cans with a flat original tire?? never know whats next around here, somone stopped in one day and gave me what arguably may be the first Huffy ever made. an old guy that only buys and sells used 20 in bikes gave me a complete all orignal Murray Eliminator. Last fall some people dropped off a pile of old 70s Schwinns, looks like a family purchase for all including a 76 Stingray. I hope it never stops

WANTED:   T-A Specialties crank arm decals posted by: Mo on 3/4/2003 at 2:37:20 AM
I have a beautiful 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer with Campy Gran Tourismo rear der Schwinn front der - 1 inch pitch rear freewheel and original T-A Specialties Made in France chain rings/crank. The crank arms had a long decal on them at one time but have since faded and worn down. This bike is all original so if anyone can tell me where I might find the crank arm decals I would be most appreciative - Thanks, Mo

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mid 70's schwinn high end ten speed posted by: Danno on 3/4/2003 at 2:06:34 AM
Can any one give me info on a schwinn I am restoring? The decals are pretty far gone but I think I can make out "sierra" on the top tube. Every part is french or english made. There is no tag as to what the frame is made of but it seems lighter than the suburban s and varsitys I have had in years past. I picked it up in a thrift store for a buck and decided it should be revived. Thanks for any help you can provide! sincerely, Danno

     mid 70's schwinn high end ten speed posted by John E on 3/4/2003 at 2:24:31 AM
If it has a "lugless" frame and Ashtabula crank, it may be a fillet-brazed CrMo frame of the Superior / Super Sport caliber. If so, it is a keeper for someone. Schwinn used the Sierra name at various times in the 1960s and 1970s, and resurrected it later for a line of mountain bikes. I think Eric has a list of Superior, Sierra, etc. models.

   RE: Sierra posted by Eric Amlie on 3/10/2003 at 5:41:11 PM
This is probably a 1977 Sierra which was the replacement for the Continental this year only. It was not a fillet brazed chrome moly frame. Below is some info gleaned from the '77 Schwinn catalog;

1. 1977 SIERRA (sport):
10 speed. Looks like this replaced the Continental this year. Stem shifters. 38 to 100 gear range. GT-275 front derailleur. GT-500 rear derailleur. Chain wheel guard. Full chrome tubular fork with special trim. Oval head badge. Name on top tube. Center pull brakes with suicide levers. Quick release hubs. Alloy stem and Randonneur handlebars. Colors were Sky Blue, Flamboyant Red (Lime in women’s), and Flamingo. Frame sizes men’s 20”, 22”, 24”, 26”; women’s 20”, 22”. $156.95

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old Crank IDs Needed... posted by: D. C. Wilson on 3/4/2003 at 1:21:27 AM
Regarding two cottered cranks: please tell me country of origin, est. of time period of manufacture and whether they would have been found on high quality lightweights of their time or lesser models? Brands are: A. Prugnat and Romana.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Serial Number on Seat Lug... posted by: D. C. Wilson on 3/4/2003 at 12:14:36 AM
Know of any vintage lightweight marques that put the serial number vertically on the seat lug on the rider's right? I have one numbered 2846, a tantalizingly low number. Seller thought it might once have been a Raleigh, but I thought the Raleigh always put SN horizonatally on the top tube by the seat lug.

     Serial Number on Seat Lug... posted by John E on 3/4/2003 at 2:29:18 AM
Perhaps we can at least figure out the country of origin from the BB threading, lugwork, etc. Many Raleighs had wrap-around seat stays and other somewhat unusual features.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Serial Number on Seat Lug... posted by John S on 3/4/2003 at 5:08:24 AM
I've seen serial numbers as described on Olmo's, made in Italy. They usually have very clean joint between the seat stays and seat lugs.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Serial Number on Seat Lug... posted by John S on 3/4/2003 at 5:08:36 AM
I've seen serial numbers as described on Olmo's, made in Italy. They usually have very clean joint between the seat stays and seat lugs.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Serial Number on Seat Lug... posted by FRED A on 3/4/2003 at 3:22:28 PM
I have an Italian made frame (as the decal states) with the serial numbers on the seat tube near the seat. The brand is "ROLLS" and the entire frame and fork are chromed, but were painted over at the factory with the exception of the bottom of the forks and rear stays, looking like PX10. The components are a combination of Huret, Balilla, Simplex, and Ambrosio. A European "mutt", if you will, but an incredibly light bike. I've often wondered if it could be a Reynolds 531 frame but never decaled. Oh, the bike is a 10 speed with down tube shifters and retains all of its original parts and decals. Super ride!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   FYI - Budget Shoes posted by: Richard on 3/1/2003 at 10:42:02 PM
Pricepoint.com has some Lake MX100 ATB/Touring shoes for $20 bucks Sizes- 45.5, 46, 46.5. There lace up w/lace holder on side, no velcro, spd compatable, a sole like a low top hiker, mesh and suede upper, not for wide feet, 45.5 = 11/11.5 size. Bought a pair the other day nice shoes for money, just thought I'd let ya all know.

MISC:   New Online Collectors Bicycle Showroom posted by: Tim Gunn on 3/1/2003 at 6:57:18 PM
Hi All, I have a new website up and running selling Collectors Bicycles dateing from 1818-1960. There is a brand new Online Showroom, I have a few Bicycles on it already, including 3 Hetchins and soon one other,and also a Paris galibier ect ect.
Go To http://www.theoldbicycle.co.uk
Enjoy your browse and add it to your favourites as stock is always changing!.
Kind Regards Tim Gunn

FOR SALE:   Nice Colnago frame, etc posted by: David on 3/1/2003 at 12:03:00 PM
Seller also has a Hetchins and parts... NMA


   RE:FOR SALE:   Nice Colnago frame, etc posted by Richard on 3/1/2003 at 11:07:14 PM
Nice lug work on the Hetchins. I could oggle a bike with ornate lugs all day long.