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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   campy nuovo rec. rear deraileur diagram posted by: paulk on 3/22/2003 at 3:26:02 AM
I'm rebuilding a classic Colnago SL/SP road frameset w/Campy Nuovo Record for my brother. All cleaned and ready for assembly but I need an exploded diagram for the rear deraileur. I'm missing the small O-ring on the attachment bolt and need to match it up. Anyone familiar with parts suppliers that carry obscure vintage Campy parts at a reasonable price? Thanks. paulk

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   campy nuovo rec. rear deraileur diagram posted by Darryl on 3/22/2003 at 4:24:00 PM
The exploded diagram for that derailleur(vintage '82) doesn't show an "O" ring. What vintage Nouvo Record do you have??

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   campy nuovo rec. rear deraileur diagram posted by Dave on 3/24/2003 at 9:56:04 PM
I have 2 81 N.R. rear deraillers and I don't know of an O-Ring, but you can get small part for Campy @classicbicycles.com.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1953 Peugeot Book posted by: Tom on 3/21/2003 at 4:15:06 AM
If there is anyone out there who needs pictures of 1953 Peugeot bikes I scanned a complete catalogue. The bikes range from roadsters to the lightweights. The book is in French. I don't have the book but have the pics scanned. Email me off line.

MISC:   Antique/Classic Bike Show/Swap Meet posted by: Eldon Hammond on 3/21/2003 at 4:15:59 AM
Antique/Classic Bike Show & Swap Meet. Saturday May 31, 2003
Pana, IL 62557
see site listed for complete details. http://www.geocities.com/bikes62557

MISC:   To keep or not to keep posted by: JONathan on 3/21/2003 at 3:50:52 AM
Help a guy out, here. I've got a decision to make about three frames. One is a '70-ish Lady's frame Centurion 10 speed; one is an American Eagle (Nishiki?) 3 spd., also bike-boom vintage and a chro-mo ,"round-badged" Schwinn 25" men's frame, (probably a Panasonic), early 80's. Is there any point to keeping these frames? Space isn't an issue, but why keep em around if all they'll amount to is a nice home for spiders, which are not endangered species around here. I used the 165mm cranks off the Centurion for a fixed-gear; the 3-speed "333" for a Raleigh Record 10 to 3 conversion (I know, I know); and the alloy wheels off the Schwinn for a Schwinn Varsity soon to be commuter (just to be different). Lemeno, thanks, JONathan

   RE:MISC:   To keep or not to keep posted by Joe on 3/21/2003 at 8:05:05 AM
I know what you mean, I have three in the garage just hanging colecting spiders and dust as well, one is a late 70's Schwinn Traveller III ladies (looks to be never ridden as is when I found it it was not fully assembled), an early 70's ladies 3 speed Breeze, and an early 80's Schwinn Traveller in a 23" frame (both are most likely Panasonic built). When I found the 23" Traveller, I figured on swapping over all of the components from the ladies Traveller III, but I just haven't been able to bring myself to strip a bike that is so perfect, ladies model or not as well as the fact that at 6'3" tall I prefer a 25" frame. The three speed was trash picked and I hoped to someday find a men's frame the same way that would justify me saving it. I considered just parting them out but then what to do with the Traveller III ladies? All three all in different states of ridable with the men's Traveller being the worst. The 3 speed is parts in my eyes waiting for a donor frame and I suppose the same for the ladies Traveller III.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by: Gralyn on 3/19/2003 at 8:17:50 PM
I like having a variety in my "collection"....and I didn't really think of it as a "collection". But then, as I listed out the different brands I have - I was quite surprised. I didn't realize I had that many bikes - let alone the variety:
AMF, Atala, Bianchi, Bridgestone, Centurion, Columbia, Fuji, Gitane, Hercules, Jeunet, Lotus, Mikado, Motobecane, Nishiki, Peugeot, Raleigh, Ross, Schwinn, Specialized, Zebra Kenko.

That's A to Z
I could swing out a little wider and get an Alan and a Zeus. LOL
20 different brands. I'm shocked.

I'm curious whether the folks that accumulate bikes go for variety, or maybe particular models or brands?

   Let's see ! posted by Ray on 3/20/2003 at 3:00:32 PM
In the lightweight category, Schwinn, Raleigh, Pinarillo, Land Shark, Bianci, Trek, Bob Jackson, Peugeot, Iverson, Umberto Dei, Motobecane, Hetchens, Claude Butler, Viscount, Cannondale and probably a few I don't remember right now. This does not include the other types of bikes I also collect. Sting Ray, Kawasaki BMX, (Schwinn, J.C. Higgins, Elgin, Shelby Balloons), Raleigh roadster, BSA Paratrooper, Rene Herse tandem, Schwinn Middleweight, many MTBs and an assortment of others. Variety, yeah I would say I collect a variety. You should see the parts, chees!

   RE:Let's see ! posted by Dave on 3/20/2003 at 3:48:39 PM
My collection has a 3 French and 2 Italian bikes: Benotto,Coppi,GT,Mercier,Puegueot(2),Raleigh,Schwinn,Shogun & Slingshot.

   RE:RE:Let's see ! posted by Fred A on 3/21/2003 at 3:08:18 AM
A collection? Yes. A collector? Oh yeah! Makes? Schwinn, Motobecane, Velosolex, Peugeot, Mercier, Fuji, Chiorda, Raleigh, Cilo, Shogun, Rolls, Columbia, Huffy(yes, a mint 60's)and Montarino. All in all, 33 bikes, down from a whopping 54. I can only drive my wife nuts for so long before I thin the herd a little. (Oh, and of course boxes of parts, saddles, and extra wheels).
Fred A

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Warren on 3/21/2003 at 3:13:59 AM
Hmmnn, here's all of them...currently it's...5 CCM track. 2 CCM roadsters, 2 Raleigh Sports, Humber Sports, Hercules road, Hercules Sports, Centurion track, Batavus roadster, SR road, Gianelli road, Supercycle roadster, Norman Roadster, Peugeot AO-8, Lemond road, Shorter track, Winthrop road, Ompak road, Dunelt fixed club, Hawthorne (cdn) roadster, and a German and Italian frames that I forget the names for.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Rob on 3/21/2003 at 6:20:04 PM
Here's my variety...the usable ,'better ones': Austro-Daimler SLE; Apollo Prestige XL (CDN/AUS (maybe) model made by Kuwahara); Benotto 850 (Campy parts...980 ders ; Benotto (model?, racing setup with mostly Superb Pro); Cannondale (model?, Al. frame, Cyclone derailleurs); Chiorda; Gardin Ultima (very nice Cdn made, aero brakes and Shimano pieces); Gitane Tour de France (Shimano Titlist ders.); Gitane APache Standard...low with cheap Campy parts;)Peugeot UE-8; Peugeot UE-18; 2 Raleigh Super Courses, and one Cdn.-made Raleigh in nice shape, but with no decals; only the head badge)... and on it goes...one MTB which I don't particularly like; one 12 year old Korean made hydrid which is heavy and runs like a flywheel, sometimes I actually like to ride it...muscle it up the hills and fly down the other side... I have a couple dozen more, some fully intact, some being used for parts, and some for future projects...I have nice Diamondback frame, which has sat around for several years now...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Rob on 3/21/2003 at 10:19:01 PM
Gee...I can't believe it!! I nearly forgot my Nishiki collection...two Landaus, a nice model with nice bits and pieces; a Royal, about 1984, nice parts...my winter rider this year; and another model, name forgotten, that has some damage to the downtube, likely will be scrapped at some point...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Kevin K on 3/22/2003 at 2:28:21 PM
Hi all. Schwinn. 1971-1981. I'm trying to collect the harder to locate models from these years. It looks like I'm going to end up with Super Sports for 1971 in Kool Lemon and a 1973 in Sunset Orange. A 1972 Super Sport would make a great trio. For 1974 a first year Letour in Opaque Blue. For 1977, a Volare in Pearlescent Orange. A Japanese Paramonut if you will. Nice double butted Reynolds 531 frame and fork. Full Dura Ace group. A nice 1979 Letour IV in Frosty Blue. I've also 2 1981 Voyageur 11.8's. One in Scarlet Red and the other Black. So far no repeat colors so the collection looks very interesting. A nice mix of USA and Japanese built Schwinn bikes. Everyone tells me I've got to fit a Continental and a Varsity in there somewhere. In time. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Gary M on 3/22/2003 at 11:11:56 PM
well i can see you have room for a "Butt-Ugly" brown Varsity, and a "Unsightly Overweight" silver Sierra. Then maybe one of those "Yuckky Poo" dk blue metallic Collegiate!! Makes ya wonder about using tire size to describe "LightWeight" bikes dont it. oddest beast i have in the corral..now anyway, is a Kuwahara Bridgestone sumpin sumpin 10 sp with disc brake. after the Aero-dumping craze last summer i ended up with a herd of those oval tubed aero styled dime store bikes. heres a real giggler. Iverson 10sp, Olympic sumpin. thing honest to god outweighed every bike in the shop. would rather carry a continental, and push a varsity then ride it. i seriously looked into the tubes as i cut it up to see where the lead was poured into it. Actually, Honestly, the heaviest bike i have the displeasure of owning. make the 55 Jag with both racks and lights seem like a lightweight.

   VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by John E on 3/22/2003 at 11:23:45 PM
I have four countries of origin (Austria, France, Italy, USA) and all four BB thread standards covered, with only five bikes, which specialize into commuting, cyclecross, touring, club, and offroad functions:

1959 Capo "Modell Campagnolo"; full Reynolds 531; original Campag. downtube shifters & centerpull Weinmann brakes

1972 Peugeot "UO-8"; converted to cyclecross; original Mafac "Racer" centerpull brakes; Normandy Luxe Competition HF hubs, aluminum 27" Rigida rims, 27x1-3/8 knobbies; Sugino Aero crankset; SunTour ratchet barcons and Cyclone derailleur

1980 Peugeot "PKN-10 Competition"; Reynolds 531 main triangle; SunTour downtube shifters & Cyclone derailleurs

1982 Bianchi "Campione d'Italia"; Columbus SL main triangle; almost everything Campag.

1988 Schwinn "Project KOM-10" mountain bike; full Tange Prestige II; Paramount/Team U.S.A. red-white-blue;

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Kevin K on 3/23/2003 at 1:21:30 AM
Hi all. John, I fianlly saw a picture of the Schwinn KOM-10 that you have mentioned. Nice. Looks fun! Sorry Gary, no butt ugly brown Varsity bikes. Not even Campus Green is gonna find it's way in here. Only DAY GLO colors for this guy. Tires sizes range from 27x1 1/4 Continental Super Sports ( German made tires ) to 700x22c on the Volare. Oh yea, Schwinn was already offering 700's as early as 1977.Pretty cool uh. Kevin K

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Gary M on 3/23/2003 at 2:08:11 AM
was surprised to find that the bike i thought was a clunker is actually a 23 in frame Opaque Blue 73 Schwinn World Voyageur, thanks to the quick eyes of a reader here. i looked up its equipment list and except for the seat is 100% original and nice. all the Dura ace stuff is there Crane GS long cage, etc, even original pedals. so i hung it by my Miyata 914, and the Bianch Nuevo Allero. i have a nice set of alloy aero spokes, a cool lugged alloy frame and some Dura Ace and Shimano 600 stuff, i will build another one to hang up. got another killer road bike here somewhere, all alloy, midgrade or better cant remember who made it. Will get alot more in a few weeks when the run begins.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Greg on 3/23/2003 at 7:05:23 PM
Rob. Your recent post was the only hit I found for an Apollo Prestige XL. Can you give me some more information about it? Components? Frame material? I may be looking at one and I'd like some foreknowledge so I don't waste my time or the seller's time. I know that these bikes usually built by Kuwahara are a great value that some turn their noses up at. All the better for us, eh?

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by Rob on 3/25/2003 at 6:28:31 PM
Hi Greg...
I don't consider myself a particular expert on Apollos, but here's what I know...First, following is a copy of a post I made last year (3/18/02):

"Warren's post covers it for the most part...Apollo was the name used by Kuwahara for bikes they marketed in Canada and Australia, from the 1960's through, I think, to the early 1980's. They are very common in Vancouver, mostly fairly basic bikes...but I have seen a few moderately interesting ones. I recently bought a nice one...nothing exciting, but nice,...lightweight, nice components, nice ride...for $25 CDN at a thrift store. Deeley was the distributor in Vancouver...maybe in Toronto, as well?

A few months ago I got some info at the Kuwahara website http://www.kuwaharabikes.com/company.htm But the link doesn't seem to be up at the moment..."

As to the tubing, I'm not too sure...probably a typical cro-moly type and probably an average standard. The components include the typical SunTour, DiaCompe, Sugino mix of the era. Mine has SunTour ARX derailleurs; SunTour "Powershift" shifters; Sugino cranks; Dai Cope sidepulls; the rims, I can't remember...I think they might actually be steel, but as it has solid axles (not original, I'm sure), perhaps all of that was replaced at some point.

I don't use the bike much, but it does have a nice feel, and it is relatively light, even with the steel rims, etc. I seem to remember it weighing in at around 27-28 lbs...I would say it's a nice average, or slighlty above average, bike...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Variety posted by P Lavery on 3/27/2003 at 1:00:53 AM
stopping by the local Goodwill Store last weekend, I saw
an unusual brand , a Giordano . It had a "Made in Italy"
sticker on the frame, It looked like typical bike boom
stuff with nerf foam on the bars instead of tape and
the brake levers were marked "Strong "
The frame was lugged . Just curious , has anyone heard of
this brand ?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by: Ron on 3/19/2003 at 11:18:39 AM
Last Summer I aquired an AMF three speed bike that had "Made in Austria" on the head tube. It looks a lot like the AMF Hercules that is for sale on this site, but that description says it was made in Holland. The shift cable on mine runs along the top tube and uses a pulley and the chain guard reaches farther down around the chainwheel. It said "Skylark" on the chainguard. The SA hub is stamped 72. I've seen other AMFs made by Raleigh, did they change suppliers every year? The bike is light enough but it would be better with alloy rims and better brakes.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by Dave on 3/19/2003 at 3:16:50 PM
I found a Ladies 3-Speed bike several years ago with a "Free Bike" sign,( I didn't need any encouragement )and it was a "Made in Austria" Sears Bike.It was fairly light and my wife rode it a little.It had a SA rear hub with the pulley just like the AMF did.

      AMF three speed by Puch? posted by John E on 3/19/2003 at 5:06:44 PM
Yes, Sears, AMF, and others did import and rebrand Raleighs, Steyr/Puchs, Giants, etc. at various times. Unless it's a Capo, an Austrian frame is almost definitely a Steyr-Daimler-Puch. Capo has made full lines of bicycles at various times in its 70-year history, but has exported primarily high-end road bikes to the U.S.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by JONathan on 3/20/2003 at 6:14:12 PM
I spent many miles on Sears' Steyr-Daimler-Puchs. I had no problem pacing ahead of any LW 10's (except the premier European bikes that some guys had the $$ to buy). The fenders and non-essentials were occasionally removed to augment performance on sport rides. They were easy to service, except for the SA hub; which never needed repairs. Replaced the shifter cables sevreal times, but I kept dumping 30 wt. oil in the hub at regular intervals. One of the 3 SDP's we had is still operational. It's a lady's frame, probably just like yours. I'd rate that bike as the best for the $$. Two were men's frames with black steel fenders. They were early '60's. I sold them, but they probably are still running. The lady's frame is early '70's. It's got aluminum fenders. The touchy thing is the cottered cranks. Get an extra set of pins, because it's easy to get it all buttoned only to find a very slight misalignment (175 deg.) between the crank arms! Glad you kept that one going. I needed the money as a starving student does, or I'd still have my 2. One was crashed, that's how I had 2. Cheaper to get a new one, then it was to order another from the catalog ($49.99). Regards, JONatahn

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by JONathan on 3/20/2003 at 6:18:55 PM
Oops. I meant; cheaper to get a new one, then repair it. JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by Ron on 3/21/2003 at 2:41:49 PM
I bought the AMF at an estate auction of a man who had a bike shop in his garage. It was pretty dirty and rusty and the tires were shot, but by suppertime I was riding it in my driveway. Once I was sure it was okay mecanically, I tore it down and stripped the frame and repainted it. Including the tires, two cans of spray paint, and the bike, I think I have about $20 dollars in it. I found a lot of little parts in the misc. boxes that I bought at the auction.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by JONathan on 3/21/2003 at 5:39:59 PM
That is cool. Maybe, I can have a little luck this spring. Last summer a 3 speed Raleigh men's was $75 at a garage sale. It was in excellent condition, but I laughed anyway. Wish I had another chance, because I'd go $75 for that bike, today. OK, I've got 2 lady's frame "sports" that are "very good", so if a men's frame appears that's only "fair", I can get it to "very good" status using parts from the 2. I share your sentiments about keeping perfectly good bikes intact. I think I'll keep looking until I find a good one; the time involved to refit a beat up one is probably not worth the difference in price. Plus, there won't be another "spider hotel" hanging in the garage.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by Ken on 3/21/2003 at 7:50:18 PM
JON, I've got your men's Sports right here; unfortunately it has a mate and I hate to break up the set. Glad to forward a picture on request... a note regarding the Austrian 3-speeds: those hubs aren't S-A but I believe they're such a good copy that the parts interchange. The experts on the Roadster forum could settle it.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by JONathan on 3/21/2003 at 10:25:05 PM
Right your are, Ken. I think the two black ones (mine) had something called; "Komet..or Comet?" as the rear hub unit. The lady's frame 3-sp. is not here at my place, since it isn't my bike, but I can get to it for a look-see. I am curious, now.
Hey, I'd love a pic. of the "sports". I was going to a Univ. area bike shop, today for a look at what the guy has out on the sidewalk. I went to the shop last year, and there was a white, 3 sp. Raleigh for about $100. It was ready to go, all tuned with new tires. I wasn't serious enough to get it, but I was thinking about it for a couple weeks.
One thing that's nice about this whole effort is there really isn't any pressure to get one "today", like I really "need" another bike. The likes of these bikes in North. Ca. seem rare enough to consider expanding my search. Who'd ever think that a J.C. Higgins 3sp would also be a rare bird? I could see the Raleigh being hard to find. Was the east coast a bigger market for the Raleighs?
Sears, OTOH, was everywhere. Mine were catalog bikes...save about $10 in '60's $$... the ones on the store floor were assembled by employees. I still have the J.C. Higgins manual with the assembly diagrams and parts list in a file somewhere.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by Ron on 3/22/2003 at 12:59:11 PM
My AMF definately has a Sturmey Archer AW hub. Since both wheels match each other and the condition of the bike, I'm pretty sure that they are original.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   AMF three speed by Puch? posted by Dave on 3/24/2003 at 10:03:39 PM
Jonathan, I have a friend whose a Raleigh Sport fan,(he has Sutherland books with color drawings of Sturmey Hubs dissembled) he said the E. Coast has a lot more English & French bicycles because of the proximity of the shipping port. Here in Chicago it's definitely Schwinn country.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Great Bicycle Books on Ebay posted by: Mike on 3/18/2003 at 11:03:07 PM
A couple of out-of-print classic bicycle books on Ebay: The Custom Bicycle and Whiter's Bicycle Manual of Maintenance and Repairs. Items 3508169110 and 3508166553.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Great Bicycle Books on Ebay posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 3/19/2003 at 6:40:08 PM
Whiter's Bicycle Manuel of Maintence and Repair.
Buy that one!
One of the best books ever written. Invaluable and rarely seen at the used bookstores.
A Class Act!
That book should be re- printed and sold again!

The book shows a picture of the head badge he had with the Wood Green London address but so far he's not featured at the Classics Rendezvous web site. I never hear about his bikes or the dude himself.
A older marque that is asleep still. He was a cycle builder!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Too many bikes posted by: Jeff Britton on 3/18/2003 at 6:28:59 PM
I aquired 12 bikes today and I have too many already so I will need to get rid of some. If you are interested and live near Wilmington DE, Phila Pa area send me an email for more info. 2 Peugeot UO-8's, Peugeot Corbier, C.Itoh (stainless steel), Shogun, Raleigh Gran Prix, 2 Raleigh Sportif's, Viscount, Lotus Elite, Trek 400, Trex 330, Fuji SJ-10. Various conditions from good to fair to poor, all mens bikes. Will part out.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dating Raleighs posted by: Wayne on 3/17/2003 at 7:51:34 PM
I just helped a poster date an older Raleigh, and realized
that there is a bit of information we don't have.
That is a list of all the different Raleigh factories (world
wide) and the code letters they used. I am asking "OldRoads"
members for help on this one. If you have any Raleighs from
the 70's or 80's which used the serial number system with 2
leading letters, followed by a multi-digit number, how about
letting us know of any previously unknown factory codes?
The factory code is the first letter of the serial number.
I will start out with the 3 I know of;
N for Nottingham England
W for Woksop England
R for Canada
Even if you don't know what the factory is, post any
codes that you may have seen, and I'll try to compile as
complete a list as I can.
People talk about information on old bikes disappearing
for ever, well this is a chance to help keep it available.
When it is reasonably complete, I will hand it over to
Oldroads for posting.
I do know that this system is used on both the roadsters
and the lightweights of that era, so I am posting this
message in both conferences.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dating Raleighs posted by Darryl on 3/17/2003 at 9:44:45 PM
See Raliegh Metro below. Not sure of year. Decal says "Made in China"

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dating Raleighs posted by Darryl on 3/19/2003 at 1:44:47 AM
The Raleigh Metro Serial#P2JZ 07621 has cranks dated '91. I have a Raleigh catalog for 1991 and it is not in there. The bike is probably a 1992. The frame has a decal "Made in China".

AGE / VALUE:   finding light weights posted by: jon on 3/17/2003 at 3:59:41 PM
All this talk about finding lightweights got my eyes open and since have found a Motobecane ten speed,and a 24"
scwhinn ten speed in free piles in front yards,and then I found the weirdest bike at a thrift store, its called a Hirondelle Manufrance,it's a ten speed with a mix of japanese and french components,its all there, pretty light and like some of the rest couldn't pass it up. I live in seattle,WA. and up here you can see trucks daily going to the dump with bikes sticking out of the back, I have rescued quite a few from the landfill,but quickly get overwhelmed and start giving them away,my motto is keep the cost down and have fun!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   finding light weights posted by Gralyn on 3/17/2003 at 8:47:24 PM
I can say: it sure is a lot of fun! Even after finding a couple over the weekend - I still made a couple stops today on my lunch hour - you just never know. Well, I have noticed a lot more Free Spirit's than I used to see. But for the most part - no good lightweights. But I'm keeping my eyes open for something different - for some name I have never heard of. Mostly, anything worth picking up has been Schwinn - but I grow tired of Schwinns. I picked one up this weekend - mainly because the price was so good - I couldn't pass it up....not free - but almost. The same for the old AMF - which I was glad to get it - because I didn't have an AMF. It's so much fun to dis-assemble them, polish everything, re-assemble, tinker, ride, tinker some more, etc. I really enjoy that.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   finding light weights posted by JONathan on 3/19/2003 at 2:27:43 AM
No matter how bad they look externally, the bearings and races; brake anchor bolts and chain gears are nearly brand new. Example, I just worked up a 1-speed "Breeze" that was a weed trellis for decades. Faded paint and tires had turned to powder. The bearings were all cloaked in dried grease, which was a great preservative! Mild soap solution, rinse and then a silicon glaze made the frame look shiny with no loss of that nice vintage patina. I can't get over how smooth it pedals and rolls along...kinda like a big ol' Buick.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Metro posted by: Darryl on 3/17/2003 at 3:51:04 PM
While out on a ride last Thursday, I notice a Raleigh bike out with trash. What caught my eye was the good condition of frame and very clean silver alum. fenders. The bike was missing wheels, saddle and shifters. Size 19" mixte frame with alloy brake calipers, alloy single speed crankset and alloy quill pedals. The rear derailleur is Suntour XC sport and probably set up as 7 speed. The decals say Raleigh Easy Riding Metro (ER7). The rear dropout measures 130mm and with 7 speeds I figure the bike is about ten years old. The serial # is P2JZ 07621 if that helps ID the vintage year. I have enought spare components to complete bike as 6 or 7 speed. Will probably sell $60 to $75. The BB & Head set in good condition. With detailing will look like new. Any comments.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Metro posted by Darryl on 3/17/2003 at 6:29:56 PM
If anyone knows what size wheel originally came on this bike, please let me know. The brake calipers reach too low for 27" or 700mm. Could be 650mm or 26"????? Thanks, Darryl

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Metro posted by Gralyn on 3/17/2003 at 8:51:15 PM
If it had 26" wheels - you think it is only 10 years old? It may be older. If you can't make the brakes reach up high enough for a 700C - then maybe it did have 26". I was thinking they haven't used 26" wheels for years and years.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Metro posted by Darryl on 3/17/2003 at 9:39:43 PM
I think 130 rear dropout is pretty common on mountain bikes. This bike might have had 26" x 1 3/8 or 1 1/2 city ATB tires. I will try a mountain wheel on it later tonight.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Metro posted by Stacey on 3/17/2003 at 11:41:40 PM
Darryl, last summer I had a Raleigh, similar to what you described, pass through here. If memory serves me correctly, it had 26 x 1.50 alloy wheels with high pressure street tires which looked a lot like rain slicks with a 6 or 7 speed cluster out back. Dates on the hubs and crank arms put it around 1985.

Methinks, a set of alloy MTB wheels should slip right in, without having to fudge up your calipers.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Metro posted by Darryl on 3/18/2003 at 12:19:52 AM
I put the fender and brake caliper back on the front fork and installed an ATB 26" wheel w/1.50 slick and it fit perfectly. 27" wheels would fit but without fenders and would have to use short reach calipers. Not worth the investment, besides the natural silver aluminum fenders look cool. Bike is dark green w/gold accents. Thanks for all input, Darryl

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Exchange Sakae for Campagnolo?? posted by: Russell Kerr on 3/17/2003 at 1:18:44 AM
I have acquired a 70's Takara road bike with a 6-speed freewheel. It has a Sakae crankset. Is there any reason I can't upgrade to Campy C-Record or Super Record cranks? If I need the Campy BB, is there any reason I can't use the proper threaded Campy BB? This is a large frame I really like, so I hope I'm not wasting money buying parts that won't fit. Thanks in advance to anyone with the info on interchagable parts. Russ

   None at all posted by Walter on 3/17/2003 at 1:52:27 AM
Square tapered spindle shouldn't be a problem and if you go with a Campy BB there's even less room for error. Just make sure you've got an English threaded BB. In fact, I'm pretty sure you could go with a new Campy Centaur BB. I love retro but the cartridge BBs are smooth and it's not like anybody would look.

Some vintage fans might be surprised to see a S Record much less a C Record group on that frame but if it's worth it to you that's all that matters.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Exchange Sakae for Campagnolo?? posted by Keith on 3/17/2003 at 9:47:28 PM
There should be no reason you couldn't cover your bike with Campy stuff. The question is, is it a good value? Prices for NOS individual Campy components are high, while prices for nice used complete Campy-equiped bikes are relatively low. You could easily spend more than it would cost to get a nice (though not a high Mojo factor bike by Steven's scale) Italian bike that's already set up with Campy. Also, is there a problem with the Sakae crankset? What aspect of Campy are you after -- better bearings (Phil Wood would give you that), finish? Mojo?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cuevas posted by: Fraser on 3/16/2003 at 11:40:33 PM
Anybody know how to date a Cuevas Special track frame? Reynolds 753r tubing, Cinelli central movement case. Organs are mostly C-record ( square 21 on the crank arms ) I know it would be a mistake to assume frame is same year of manufacture as the gruppo. No serial number on the frame Thanks.

MISC:   Gardiner Frames posted by: Ian on 3/16/2003 at 8:20:05 AM
Hi, Has anybody heard of a frame maker (probably English) by the name of Gardiner? A friend has just picked up a white tandem frame with this name on the downtube but no other identification. It has double bottom tubes and also double small diameter bracing tubes through each frame diamond, almost like a mixte frame would have. Any ideas on maker or era? Thanks, Ian.

MISC:   Shimano "600" on Raleigh Bottom Bracket? posted by: Joe on 3/16/2003 at 8:02:48 AM
I don't know if there is a correct answere or solution to what I am trying to do but if anyone out ther knows what is the correct bottom bracket spindle to use with a 70 mm bottom bracket and a Shimano "600" (old style, 1980) crankset please respond.
I am trying to convert a mid 70's Raleigh Super Grand Prix over to Shimano '600' components, I have tried several different spindles and have come up with the following conclusion, I believe I need a B.B. spindle in the aprox. measurements: Left = 31.75 / Center = 55.5 / Right = 31.75 mm. To retain the one key release it should be female threaded but this is not crucial. I tried several combinations to get the above specs. My best result was using a 5N axle put in backwards, this gave me near perfect driveline alignment but it puts the left arm to far to the left, it would work, but I just figured there has got to be a better solution. Does anyone know if Shimano made a 5 series spindle for these cranksets? If so does anyone have a part number or source? The cranksets all came with 3 series symetrical axles.
If anyone has tied this before, please let me know. The bottom bracket threading is British but I have a good set of bearing cups. This is the last piece of the puzzle to complete this bike as a daily rider.

   RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by Skip Echert on 3/16/2003 at 5:33:53 PM
Hello Joe -
Sounds like a good project. There is bottom bracket info that may be useful to you at
Are you sure you have a 70mm bottm bracket shell? That is typically Italian. English is 68mm. You might investigate a Shimano UN72 Sealed BB, available new. They used to come in lots of sizes but now fewer sized are commonly available. Most (or all) are symmetrical.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by JONathan on 3/17/2003 at 2:43:25 AM
I have a SunTour (that's what I wrote on the bag) crank spindle that measures 37mm(rt)/35mm(lt) with 55+mm (ctr). I had to mic it to get the right configuration, it's that close. The spindle is stamped "3S2". I have no idea if SunTour and Shimano are interchangeable. As for the Italian bikes, years ago I was able to get a Sugino BB (cottered) onto a Bottecchia. Don't ask; "Why?". I guess anything's possible. Nice plan, if it flies. Good luck. JONathan

   RE:RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by Joe on 3/17/2003 at 12:00:09 PM
The bottom bracket shell does measure 70 mm. The threads are also British and not BSA or Italian. I was surprised to see this on such a late bike, but it was built in Nottingham. I varified the threads by checking thread per inch with a guage and the are 26 tpi. I also took an old Raleigh 3 speed cup that I know is British threaded and tried it in the Super Grand Prix's bottom bracket.
The fork is also British threaded as I found out when I went to try and install a Shimano 600 Headset thet I had for it. The headset is marked SA on the one cone.
I assume that is Sturmey Archer.
The British threading rules out the sealed bottom bracket. The odd part is that the b.b. measures 70 mm and not 71 mm as most of the British b.b.'s I've seen. I talked to someone who has a similar conversion and his Raleigh, which is older, has a 68 mm b.b.
I found a 3 series axle with the right measurements on each end,(3J-s), but I need a 5 series axle, does anyone no if there is a 5J -s or -B?
I have run into other oddities on this bike as well, I tried to install a set of 610 calipers and they are way to long for the front, they miss the rim with the pads in the highest position. The rims are 27". The original Raleigh calipers were 610's. I am not sure about the rims but the caliper misses by way more than the difference in a 700c and 27" wheel which is about 8 mm at the spoke circomference. I even checked to see if the fork had been changed to a 26" but a 26" is to small and it is a 25.5" frame, I don't suppose there were any 25.5" 26" bikes.
The only caliper I can get to work would be a Dia-Compe 500 with still having to grind out the slot a little.
The rims are time period correct Weinmann's but not the original concave style. I was wandering if there may be some sort of offset pivot bolt that they used. If this bike was built for Europe, it most likely was designed for 700c wheels. I have only seen one other and it had concave 700c rims but it was a different year (newer). The rear caliper is ok, so I don't think it was a 700c bike but I can't be sure. The concave rims may provide a wider braking area but I can't see them making a 1/2" difference.
I would prefer to use the original calipers since the frame has a built in rear cable hoop for center pull brakes.
Any ideas?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by JONathan on 3/18/2003 at 7:08:52 AM
Why not go to a 28 inch wheel? Then you could use the original brake set. I have read about a "drop-bolt" that lowers the anchor bolt. Although I have strong reservations (220 lbs. worth to be exact) to lever the anchor bolt with a "drop-bolt". Maybe it's my preservation instincts, besides if it looks goofy, it usually functions goofy.
Have you tried Universals? They are side-pulls and are very good "stoppers". I think the anatomy of center-pulls makes them poor candidates for short stroke arms...maybe I'm blowing hot air, but just thinking of the leverage working on the yolk would be excessive for sound operation. I'd be careful, too, grinding (filing produces less heat) out the slots on the arms, which may cut into the safety margin. The logic is that a part is more likely to fail near it's design limits, under stress conditions, IMHO, of course.
As for the BB. Maybe some previous owner had the BB ground down to 70mm for an Italian crankset. Wierder things have been done, I'm sure. Anyway, you have the right idea...go with what works. I heard somewhere that a "good plan, today, is better than a better plan, tomorrow". I'm not saying I agree with that, but a lot depends on the time frame and economics of a given situation. I am "converting" a Raleigh Record (196?) 10 speed to a 3 speed. Not because I'm crazy, but due to the scarcity of anything that's vintage 3-speed in a male frame.
You could build a bike for the amount of effort I've put into what I thought were easy modifications on some bikes. The fun of the challenge makes it worthwhile...as opening up new ideas. All for your effort, JONathan.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by Joe on 3/18/2003 at 9:46:30 AM
JONathan, I agree with you 100% as far as wheel size and on the idea of caliper modification. My original plan was to keep this bike looking as close to original as I could. The reason I was trying to keep the center pull set up is the fact that the frame has a welded in bridge for the c/p brakes in the rear and the headset uses a cable stop bracket as it's 'lock washer'. I agree that I am better off as far as stopping ability with a good set of side pull calipers, I found a set of late 80's Dia-Compe 500's that when used with their original beveled shoes will work well as far as rim contact.
I had prefered to use the center pull calipers due to the fact that they tend to stay centered better than the side pulls. I have always had trouble keeping the side pull calipers from dragging left or right, they also have a tendency to apply on the opposite side of the cable first and not return to center as well. But, like you said and I agree, I am better off with the side pull brakes.
I looked hard at the probability of using an offset bolt but the caliper is to close to the bottom of the headset cup to be raised and would have to be shimmed forward which would increase the alignment problem as well as increase the load on the bolt.
I used a 27" wheelset since I have several of these and they are new old stock. Ideally using an original set of Weinmann concave 700c rims would be better but I haven't seen any around for years. If I came across a set I would consider building an original wheel set and go bck to the 610 calipers, but for now I'll use what works and make this a really nice old rider.
I considered the posibility of the bottom bracket shell being ground down, but it still has original paint on both sides and the paint on the bike is really clean and original. I myself even considered milling off 1 mm from each side to make it a standard 68 mm shell but I still would have to contend the British threading. It would be easier to retap to Italian and simply use an Italian threaded sealed cartridge. But the threads are in good shape, and it would prevent me from ever going back to original. Besides, I just couldn't bring myself to posibly ruining a good old frame.
I am used to improvising and using what works, although not really a vintage lightweight, last year I took an early 90's Panasonic DX 4000 frame that someone threw out that had been stripped of all but it's crank and headset and built a set of 27" Rigida 1320 rims with a Nexus 7 speed hub with a roller brake along with 1" tires and converted it to an upright bar hybrid type of bike that is both simple,comfortable, and fast. This was also a 700c bike with similar claerances as the Raleigh, but I had had all of the parts hanging in the garage for years and had just come across a badly damaged cruiser that I stripped for parts for and for what ever reason decided to cross breed the two. It turned out to be a really nice bike considering it was built out of a pile of mismatched parts. The lack of derailleurs and calipers make it a real low maintenence set up, I used a set of 3" rise bars and an ajustable stem to allow me to use the original Nexus shifter and levers. I don't know if it gained or lost weight but it worked so well I didn't care.
I just converted the front wheel to a matching roller hub as well, this was heavier than a caliper but made the bike much cleaner in apearance and increased stopping power by a mile.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by Dave on 3/18/2003 at 4:46:04 PM
Joe, There is a set of 700c Weinmann Concave wheels for $60 @firstflightbikes.com.I had a set on a commuter bike years ago but wrecked both rims on a water covered pothole,(bummer).The part# is LWHEELLP8.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by JONathan on 3/18/2003 at 6:27:44 PM
Hi, Joe. Thanks, I now have enough confidence to agree with myself. Not kidding. Creative effort and common sense are the crux of vintage restoration, IMHO, of course; and you have a benchmark candidate. You've obviously got a handle on what the problem is; which can be a major part of the solution. After you get the bugs out (and I'm sure you will), you'll have one righteous HPV.
For a long time, my interest in historical conformation has nagged at me all the while in restoring vintage bicycles. I think I've resolved (not necessarily solved) the problem..for me. I apply a simple philosophy wherein I decide right away if I want a bike to be original, or to be modernized slightly (mostly for safety) as a "beater"; or to refit as a first-rate vintage LW. The last category is for bikes that are to be fitted-out for optimum performance (road or touring) and which, considering the effort and expenses involved, are set to log the big, exciting miles. The first, is of interest in finding what was used and where to find it (a mystery novel?). The second, allows for conservation of resources. The last, opens the creative, experimental door; which is most exciting.
It's a tough problem, IMHO, of course, trying to maximize two of what I have descibed as categories (first and last). Your solution is elegant; keep it as original as possible. Beautiful! Some of those vintage LW "factory" brake sets flat out terrify me. Amazing that they worked as well as they have. With that puppie coming out of a "dive", you have the right idea in wanting good stoppers.
Very interested in what you come up with. Wish I could help. JONathan.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by JONathan on 3/18/2003 at 6:28:44 PM
Hi, Joe. Thanks, I now have enough confidence to agree with myself. Not kidding. Creative effort and common sense are the crux of vintage restoration, IMHO, of course; and you have a benchmark candidate. You've obviously got a handle on what the problem is; which can be a major part of the solution. After you get the bugs out (and I'm sure you will), you'll have one righteous HPV.
For a long time, my interest in historical conformation has nagged at me all the while in restoring vintage bicycles. I think I've resolved (not necessarily solved) the problem..for me. I apply a simple philosophy wherein I decide right away if I want a bike to be original, or to be modernized slightly (mostly for safety) as a "beater"; or to refit as a first-rate vintage LW. The last category is for bikes that are to be fitted-out for optimum performance (road or touring) and which, considering the effort and expenses involved, are set to log the big, exciting miles. The first, is of interest in finding what was used and where to find it (a mystery novel?). The second, allows for conservation of resources. The last, opens the creative, experimental door; which is most exciting.
It's a tough problem, IMHO, of course, trying to maximize two of what I have descibed as categories (first and last). Your solution is elegant; keep it as original as possible. Beautiful! Some of those vintage LW "factory" brake sets flat out terrify me. Amazing that they worked as well as they have. With that puppie coming out of a "dive", you have the right idea in wanting good stoppers.
Very interested in what you come up with. Wish I could help. JONathan.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Shimano posted by Joe on 3/21/2003 at 7:52:47 AM
Dave, Good call on the rims, I ordered them yesterday morning! I emailed Jeff of First Flight Bikes and he assured me they were good truable rims which need very little work. I didn't even know this sight had a section on light weights! I guess iI never spent enough time there. Even if I have to tear these down and respoke and replace hubs, I have all of the above. These will solve my brake problem correctly and make this bike much more original. However, I have already set up the bike with 27" rims and Dia-Compe 500 calipers and I do kind of like the extra stoppin power. I also have a good line on a large frame Super Course which will need a good set of 700c clinchers for everyday riding, these may just end up there instead! If I don't get the Super Course I will probably set back up for the center pull 610's.