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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

MISC:   le tour chain tightning posted by: luke on 4/18/2003 at 4:33:48 PM
hey velo lovers,
i just have a quick question.i have a 1980
le tour and finally got the chain back on.
my problem is that the chain is still a little
loose.it has a shimano altus lt derailer combo
and the rear derailer is as far as it can go
as it has a stop piece with a screw in the
dropout. the wheel can go back about another
inch,but how?
any help would be great.
i rode about 5 miles on it last night and she
sure rode great!!!!
but the chain never tightend throuh several
gear changes.
thanks so much,luke

      le tour chain tightning posted by John E on 4/18/2003 at 5:03:12 PM
Hi Luke -- First, is your chain too long? It should be long enough to handle large-to-large cross-chaining, plus another inch, at most. If the chain length is appropriate, does your derailleur provide for adjustment of the tension spring? It may be possible, and fairly easy, to loosen the cage and to reposition it with respect to the spring. If your chain is extremely loose, your cage may have swung around past its normal operating range.

Yes, you can increase chain tension slightly simply by moving the rear wheel farther back in its dropout, but it sounds to me as though you have a more fundamental problem.

   RE:MISC:   le tour chain tightning posted by JONathan on 4/18/2003 at 9:25:11 PM
You stated; "the chain", I presume that means it was on the bike and was working? I always leave the chain off the chainring(s) while positioning the rear wheel into the "slots" on the rear axle. That action permits maximum crank-to-axle to be obtained, if necessary. What you really want to avoid and this is especially true on bikes without integral derailer hangers (instead, there is a detachable "claw" that also shares the groove along with the axle!) is the axle positioned to close to the opening of the dropout groove. Definite safety concern there. The potential is for the axle to slip out and lock the rear wheel up so as to catapult the rider right over the handlebars. My biggest problem with chains? To get the small chainring and the small rear cog working right (maximum take-up) while permitting the large chainring and large rear cog to be mounted properly (minimum take-up). This is always a problem when I swap for a larger rear cog low gear and/or smaller small chainring. Mainly, you want to avoid pulling the axle out of the groove while riding! JONathan

   RE:RE:MISC:   le tour chain tightning posted by Wings on 4/19/2003 at 3:00:08 AM
You described chain looseness. Describe the symptoms!

1. As JohnE indicated a symptom is that the derailer moves to an unatural position and what you would hear then is a scraping sound of your derailer dragging on the chain while the chain is loose. This could happen in different positions however you could check with a bike stand by running in your smallest chainring and slowly shift down to your smallest cog in the rear (not what you would do as a rider). Does the derailer arm touch (drag) on the chain?

2. Again JohnE indicated (why am I writing this?) the test for proper chain length. Wrap the chain over the largest cog and the largest chain wheel and yes your derailer should be under stress. I always try to pinch two links (= about an inch) together in this combination. If I cannot pinch them together the chain may be too tight. If I can pinch about four links together I would say you have a loose chain.

3. And sometimes one must compromise between these settings.

4. I assume you are using the derailer hanger that is bolted to the rear fork slot. Make sure the little semicircle rear plate is in proper position and moved all the way to the rear of the slot for the axle. Tighten it! I have seen a couple of hangers that did push the axle more to the front -- perhaps that is what you have.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Definition? posted by: Keith on 4/18/2003 at 3:30:48 PM
A few posts down someone brought up the notion of what constitutes a mid-range bike. I'd be interested in others' thoughts on this and related terms. For me, mid-range means not the lowest end model of the typical (Raleigh, Peugeot) big-name line, and common features would include at least some proprietary frame tubing (not all plain carbon steel), alloy rims, alloy bars, and quick release levers front and back. Lower-end models would therefore be ones made with all plain carbon tubing, bolt-on wheels, etc. I'd peg higher end models as ones made all-proprietary double(or triple)butted tubing, and either first or second-tier components -- this would vary depending on era, but generally top-end Campy, Shimano Dura Ace, Shimano 600, Suntour Supurbe, Suntour Cyclone, Huret Jubilee, or Mavic. In the early 70s, bikes like the Peugeot PX-10 and Gitane Tour de France, with upper-tier Simplex/Stronglight/Mafac, and 531 frames, would be higher-end in my eyes. Of course, some refined, well-heeled collectors would likely turn up their noses at many bikes I'd consider higher-end, and restrict their interest to the absolute best of the best and the rarest of the rare: prime year Masi, DeRosa, Cinelli, Singer, Herse, Hetchins, Coppi-era Bianchis and the like. And these designations are useful insofar as they represent our goals. Low-end bikes may in some cases be practical transportation and good to learn mechanics without worrying about screwing them up. Good, well maintained mid-range bikes can be used for basicaly any sort of road riding, including centuries (done it many times). Higher end may be a goal, what we're hoping to find, and celebrate when we do find, but nothing to be snobbish about. Any thoughts?

   mid-range posted by John E on 4/18/2003 at 5:30:34 PM
Your ideas work for me, Keith, but everything is relative. For midrange bikes built since the early 1960s, I would expect cotterless aluminum cranks and integral derailleur hangers. For early 1950s midrange bikes, I would not even require aluminum rims.

Actually, since vintage components are so easily swapped, I am more interested in classifying framesets as low, mid, or high end, and you have already alluded to a satisfactory classification based on frame material, from carbon steel to moly steel main triangle to full moly steel frameset. As a nonracing transportation and recreational cyclist, I have never perceived any practical advantage of a "diagonal label" high-end full-531 frameset (e.g. Peugeot PX-10) over a midrange frameset with a double butted 531 main triangle (e.g. Peugeot PR/PK-10).

Frameset classification could provide reasonable guidance for contemplated component updates or upgrades. Although I have converted every Peugeot UO-8 (arguably the top of the low-end frameset category) I have owned to aluminum cranks and rims, I would not waste a Campag. crankset or seatpost on one. In contrast, I did not hesitate to upgrade my 1959 full-531 Capo with a Campag. seatpost and Nervar Star crankset.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Definition? posted by Keith on 4/18/2003 at 5:57:40 PM
I very much agree with your observation that mid-range ought to include derailleur hanger in most instances and aluminum cranks. And age of era modifies all of this, of course, for example if you go back far enough steel Chater Lea cranks were top end stuff. It's also true that the frame quality essentially drives the quality of the complete bicycle. Here's another thought -- the mid-range bike concept was pioneered by the Japanese. In the early 70s, the major lines would have one or two plain carbon steel bikes, with minor differences like quick release vs. bolt-on wheels, and then jump right into the full db 531 Peugeot PX-10 category. By the mid-70s, the Japanese were offering a better made, more reliable option to the Euro low-end bikes for not much more money.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Definition? posted by JONathan on 4/18/2003 at 9:29:13 PM
Well said. JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Definition? posted by Walter on 4/19/2003 at 1:39:15 PM
Good working definitions for me. As a Motobecanephile in my younger days I'd agree that my 1978 Nomade and even the next step up Mirage were lower-line bikes though Moto finished their bikes better than most all Euro makers and even the Japanese. Heavy framed, bolt on wheels (the Mirage was a step up as the front was QR), both bikes had cotterless cranks with alum arms but steel rings. Like John with his Peugeots I put an alum wheelset on mine as well as SunTour barcons. It became a solid bike though it still probably weighed 27+#.

I'd add something about stem shifters to the definition, at least for boom bikes. It seems to me as I recall my days from hanging out in LBSs as a kid in the late '70s that stem shifters and carbon frames were ubiquitous. Of course department store 10 speeds were always stem-shifted as well. D/T shifters were used to denote a "serious" bike, at least in the late boom days.

   Japanese influence on mid-level evolution posted by John E on 4/20/2003 at 10:06:24 PM
Arguably, Schwinn and Peugeot pioneered midline bikes with the fillet-brazed Superior/Super Sport CrMo series and the 531 main triangle PR/PK-10 series, respectively. The Japanese certainly popularized the concept, starting perhaps with the 1969 American Eagle [Nishiki] Semi-Pro (d.b. Ishiwata CrMo main triangle, Sugino aluminum cranks, quill-style Kyokuto Pro Ace pedals, etc.). Significantly, the earliest European midgrade bikes, intended for entry-level racers, sported tubular tyres, which caused them to lose recreational and transportation buyers to Schwinn and Japan.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Definition? posted by Keith on 4/21/2003 at 1:47:20 PM
There were definately attempts at mid-range in the early 70s -- Schwinn Super Sport, Raleigh Super Course, and Gitane Interclub (with tubular tires) are all examples. The problem with these models is that despite certain other upgrades, the gruppos were still low-end Huret or Simplex, so that functionally the bikes were still low-end. Until Japanese comnponents became more widely available, there wasn't much out there to use to set up what I'd consider a real step up to mid-range. I agree with Walter re Motos. I miss my Grand Record, which is now on loan to an OSU student until he gets his chem. Ph.D. Here's another thought -- bikes like the Raleigh Record and Peugeot UO-8 are lower end, but there's a category below that: U.S. made gaspipe steel 10-speeds with things like stamped steel sidepulls.

   "bottom end" posted by John E on 4/21/2003 at 2:41:54 PM
If we classify the UO-8, the Steyr Clubman, and the Varsinental as lower-end, then perhaps we need an additional category, such as "bottom-end," for Huffy, Murray, and their Sears Free Spirits.

   RE: posted by Dave on 4/21/2003 at 6:02:06 PM
Don't forget Columbia 10-speeds in that catagory.I had one that you could see the gas-pipe frame tubes flex in a strong cross-wind.

AGE / VALUE:   1984-85 Schwinn Le Tour posted by: Elvis on 4/18/2003 at 4:08:34 AM
Hi. I'm fixing up an old Schwinn Le Tour I got last year to ride again, and noticed that the headbadge says Schwinn Chicago, and the base of the seat tube is clearly marked as "4130... Frame built in America".
I am puzzled by this because I have heard that the le Tour was the first NON-Chicago bike, being made overseas.
Any idea about the origin of this bike? Was the le tour an import, or were there several lines, some import and some not? Any info appreciated...

   RE:  1984-85 Schwinn Le Tour posted by Eric Amlie on 4/18/2003 at 12:46:11 PM
There was a period (late seventies or early eighties I think) when the LeTour production was brought "in house". I have read about this but never cared enough to remember the details. You should post this over on the Schwinn site. There is a guy who goes by the name of Dopey over there that worked at a Schwinn dealership for quite a few years and knows this detail stuff pretty well.

   RE:RE:  1984-85 Schwinn Le Tour posted by Kevin K on 4/18/2003 at 1:09:19 PM
Hi. FYI. The LeTour was not the first non Chicago built Schwinn. Panasonic actually built 2 other models for Schwinn, the Letour was the 3rd. It was introduced as a 1974 model though some bikes carry late 1973 dates. So from 1974-1978 the Schwinn Letour, Letour II, Letour III, Letour 12.2 (and possibly one or two other models) were built for Schwinn in Japan by Panasonic. Then for 1979 Schwinn proudly announced the Letour II and NEW Letour IV would be built in the USA. In Chicago. About that time the Schwinn plant went union, and a strike resulted in production being moved to the Greenville plant late 1980 or so. The Letour was built in Greenville, Mississippi well into the 80's. A 1984 LeTour Luxe I own, built with Columbus tubing, was built in Greenville. I'm sure several other models were as well but I do not have actual ownership to document. If your LeTour is nice, it'll always be at least a USA built Schwinn but I'm not sure it'll be a collector. And to be honest, who cares. These were overall nice bikes, easy to service, built to last. Ride it. Enjoy it. If you do find out any additional info on these, I collect LeTours. I'd be interested in what you learn. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:RE:RE:  1984-85 Schwinn Le Tour posted by Kevin K on 4/18/2003 at 2:35:39 PM
Hi.FYI on the 1974 LeTour. I'm unsure which party ( Schwinn, Panasonic or Shimano ) is responsible for this neat little detail but some major components on the first LeTours not only said " Schwinn Approved " but had word LeTour written out in long hand. The high flange front and rear hubs, the quick releases, crankset arms, front and rear derailleurs and the seat post were all I.D. in such a manner. Really sorta neat. While the bike is hardly of high quality ( stamped steel dropouts )I feel the bike is of some importance as it was a very popular model for Schwinn. Enjoy the hobby. Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1984-85 Schwinn Le Tour posted by Elvis on 4/20/2003 at 11:19:03 PM
Thanks all! There is much I don't know about Schwiins, so all the responses were helpful. I put a new seat and polished up the Aluminum components and rode the the Le Tour today. Great fun bike. By the way, one more question: Kinda stupid but i gotta ask: There is a little metal protrusion on the inside of the seatstay above the chainline. I've seen this in other low- and mid-range bikes [my old basic Bianchi and the 80's Raliegh Record frame i salvaged...] Is this to hold the chain when the r wheel is off? If so it seems like a neat invention; why don't more expensive models have it?

AGE / VALUE:   SPOKE LENGTH posted by: Kevin K on 4/17/2003 at 8:56:52 PM
Hi. What length spoke is needed to build up new wheelset using 70's high flange Shimano hubs and 27" rims? Thanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SPOKE LENGTH posted by Warren on 4/17/2003 at 11:21:43 PM
This requires rather precise measurments...it is not recommended to go with charts. Take the hub and rim to a good shop. They will measure the radius of the holes, the proper diameter of the rims (all 27" rims are not equal) and then calculate the spoke length based on lacing pattern and rim style and wheel dish etc etc.

Wheelbuilding is an art.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SPOKE LENGTH posted by Kevin K on 4/18/2003 at 12:09:53 AM
Hi Warren. Yea, I didn't think it was as simple as measure one of my other wheels for spoke length and have at it. I do know a great bike mechanic that'll probally be the one building these wheels. I needed a length as I wanted to look for some old stock spokes at the swap meets here next weekend. Thanks for the advice Warren. Kevin

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SPOKE LENGTH posted by Darryl on 4/18/2003 at 12:44:55 AM
Best to use new or new old stock and not used spokes as used spokes have already been stressed in certain directions. If you don't install used spokes in exactly the same pattern they were originally installed you compromise the integrity of the wheel. There is a spoke length calc. formula at www.bikeschool.com/spokes but it takes some knowledge about how to measure the rims and hubs.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SPOKE LENGTH posted by JONathan on 4/18/2003 at 1:04:08 AM
Man, that's news to me. Does this apply to the steel rim wheels, or is it just the low numbered alloy 1 inch rims? I am amazed that I haven't had a lot of busted spokes considering that I hit 220# on a sunday morning. Usually they start making noise indicating they're working loose, afterwhich ignoring the issue for 100 miles leads to the inevitable "snap". JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SPOKE LENGTH posted by JONathan on 4/18/2003 at 2:21:18 AM
Oops. Now I know why I always skipped that chapter in the book. The math is interesting in that the spoked wheel (non-rigid) was successful long before somebody figured out the algorythm in mathematical terms, I think. A lot like M.C.Escher's art! The LBS charges $0.50/spoke ( 14 ga.; 2mm) so it means that I could have a $20 expense respoking a wheel. And, if you add in the cost of new rim. Don't forget the hub. Yet, a rummage-sale bike may have those alloy wheels front and rear hardly used on a "mid-range" (whatever that is) nearly new bike for peanuts.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SPOKE LENGTH posted by Keith on 4/18/2003 at 3:29:55 PM
For spoke charts, use any search engine with terms like "spoke length calculator". But Warren is right, a good LBS will also do the measurements for you and perform the calculation so they can sell you the spokes. If you're building with a Mavic rim, you can also call Mavic (again, search engine for their site to find ph#). I would recommend that you try building yourself, following the instructions at Sheldon Brown's website. If you carefully follow his instructions, you'll wind up with the better wheel than a machine-built wheel the very first time. Plus it's fun.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SPOKE LENGTH posted by Gary M on 4/19/2003 at 8:02:03 AM
been repairing bikes with used spokes for a long time now with no adverse affect. i save long ones, and cut them to length, and thread them with the Cyclo spoke threader. made a lot of spokes this way, do it nearly every day. i see lots of my wheels riding around town too. for the cost of new spokes and labor you cannot fix wheels any other way really, they arent worth it. anyone care to guess how many lengths of spoke i would need to stock to do all the wheel sizes? No way!! I strip long clean spokes off 10 speeds and cut them to length, thread em and toss em in.

AGE / VALUE:   Seeking 21" Mens English Frameset for... posted by: Brian on 4/17/2003 at 12:38:51 PM
I'm seeking a Mens 21" British-made frameset that will accomodate Sturmey Archer hubset spacings. The lighter, 531-tubed, top-line models from Humber, Rudge, Raleigh, Carlton, Flying Scot, etc. preferred.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Seeking 21 posted by josh on 4/17/2003 at 8:07:08 PM
I have a carlton that is 21". it is in rough shape but if you are interested I hae a few photos. I live northern california.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Seeking 21 posted by Brian on 4/20/2003 at 2:32:24 PM
I'd like to see "how rough", and decent quality jpg's might do that. One has to weigh the cost of a restore verses finding one already in good shape.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by: Rob on 4/17/2003 at 12:32:42 AM
Well folks, I have to tell you all this story...

Last night I walked over to the bike section in the large thrift shop I visit every a couple of weeks...this night was different, instead of the usual beatup MTB's, there was that rare event, and interesting road bike...a Bottecchia...I could hardly believe it!!

ANd this on the heels of a rather successful spring cleanup campaign...I'll post on that at a more opportune time...it'll be a bit long...

THe Bottecchia is a little rough, though not too bad. It's virtually identical to the one shown in the Classic Rendezvous site: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Bottechia.htm

Same color, same decals...I would say it's right around 1970. The stem and, I assume, the bars are TTT; brakes, Universal, hoods missing; hubs, front QR skewer, and shifters, Campy; rims are Dolomiti 27x1 1/4, steel with galvanized spokes; crankset, looks like Nervar, and pedals, are steel, cottered; FW is Regina GS Corse(a) Mercate; derailleurs are not original...replaced with Suntour Honor and Spirt; seat post looks original, but not the saddle; rear QR skewer was replaced...Shimano. The decals are in place and not too bad, portions are hard to read.

So...is this a find?? $25CDN ($17US)...the price hardly seems to be an issue. I assume the derailleurs were originally Campy Gran Sport???

It looks like I'll have to find the derailleurs...I think I already have a suitable front one; brake hoods, I imagine they will be hard to find; and a rear QR, which I don't think will be too much trouble. How about the rims and cranks...should I replace them with something a bit more 'user-friendly'???

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by JONathan on 4/17/2003 at 3:01:35 AM
You struck it big. The thrift stores are an unlikely source for quality machines. Ever see any good tools, lately? I mean, it getting to be high priced trash. That was some deal. The church rummage sales and the occasional garage sale may have a quality bike for cheap. I keep hearing stories about Italian bikes being thrown out...where might that be? I guess too many people around here are wising up. It hard going for the cheapskates like me. Nice going on that one. My Bottechia was a bit unusual in the BB, but I remember that a Sugino worked. You may have a 70mm BB instead of the almost standard 68mm. Read Sheldon Brown on that topic. My first Bottechia had a problem taking 9/16 pedal threads. The Columbus tubes are as light as they get and pretty still ride (nice) because of the larger diameter tubes on both my bikes (BOT.and Maino). Good luck. JONathan

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by JONathan on 4/17/2003 at 3:06:33 AM
The headbadge on the Bottecchia looks wild, hope you have it still.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Gralyn on 4/17/2003 at 11:49:10 AM
I always have my eyes open for something like that. However, it is so unlikely at places like that. I guess my best find so far was a Bridgestone RB-1 - in a thrift store of all places. I grabbed it immediately. But, for the most part - about 95% of all you see in these places is Free Spirits, Huffy's, and old dept. store children's bikes.
Yes, I hope to hit some church rummage sales, and yard sales this spring. I'm always looking for something I don't have.....or a name I have never seen....or something interesting.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Keith on 4/17/2003 at 2:15:26 PM
From what you describe, especially the steel rims, it sounds like a Bottechia "Special",which would have run $165 in 1972. Atala had a similar model at the same price, which I've seen locally, the "104." The 1972 Consumer Guile indicates the frame was seamless steel, not Columbus. It lists Campy derailleurs, but does not specify which one. I'd guess Valentino, which was the lower end Campy, but in my opinion, a very fine derailleur that shifted reasonably well and was built to last. I have a Bottechia Pro of the same vintage, and it has a nice ride quality. The bb shell on the Pro is Italian thread, as Jonathan describes, and I'm pretty sure your bike would be the same.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Dave on 4/17/2003 at 2:21:43 PM
Way to go.Check www.cycleart.com parts section, they had Gran Sport deraillers in the market section.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Rob on 4/17/2003 at 5:16:29 PM
Oops...time for a little bit of a reprise...I guess I was carried away by my enthusiasm. Thanks for all the comments. On further reflection it would seem that the original derailleurs were the low end Campagnolo Valentino, which would mark it as an average bike...nothing really special.

Still, for the price it's well worth it...it's the only Bottecchia in my collection...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Rob on 4/17/2003 at 5:23:48 PM
PS...It does have the head badge...in very good shape, and I agree it is really neat looking...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Keith on 4/17/2003 at 5:26:06 PM
I think it was a good find -- fix it up and enjoy it!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Walter on 4/17/2003 at 5:50:43 PM
That RB-1 is a TREMENDOUS find. To be blunt and with no intent to disparage it is heads and shoulders above the many Peugeots and various Euo bikes that pop up on this site. Again no disrespect, but the RB-1 has a following, not to mention a market, that no low to mid-line Euro bike has or ever likely will have.

Grant Petersen created a winner there and people who will still spend multiples of $100 for one will gnash their teeth about one showing up in a thrift store.

If you never find a decent bike gain you're still ahead.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by JONathan on 4/17/2003 at 7:09:38 PM
Take a look at a Rivendell lugged frame. Yes, lugged frames are built, still. Take a basic good (=tested true) design and then extend the craftsmanship to the highest standards and you have the RB-1. IMHO, very few people can do that today and make money. If RB-1's were the crux of the site, I think there wouldn't be a lot to discuss...and the RB-1 is a racer's bicycle which narrows the field even more. I love seeing the sturdy, steel and lugged well made vintage bikes hitting the road rathet than an occasional appearance in front of the coffee shop (shoppe?). They all are cool. Preference in bicycles is one area that I have personally discovered can be inexplicable! Forinstance, why ride a 1963 Raleigh "sports" when a modern (better) city bike is parked right next to it? I say, it's all what a person decides THEY like. I can't argue that (altough I still try). Most of the bikes that are discussed have "endurance limits" that are rarely exceeded in normal use, therefore they are still worth the effort to fix up....and they are cheap; price to value is high. The history behind the makes further enhnaces their appeal, although in my case it borders on the estorteric. My2c. JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Gralyn on 4/17/2003 at 7:10:29 PM
Yes, I have often considered that RB-1 as a once-in-a-lifetime find......and I will always be ahead. Although it has some value - it would really be hard for me to sell it. I love riding it! It's a great bike. It took very little to make it a really nice looking bike.
I recently built up a Bianchi Professional. It seems about the same weight as the RB-1 - and it rides just about as well. I guess if I did decide to part with the RB-1 - the Bianchi would serve my needs just about as well. And down from that, I have a Lotus 3000R - which I think is under-rated - or at least they don't sell for all that much on e-bay from what I've seen. But it is a really good bike, very light, and rides very well....very nice frame.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Gralyn on 4/17/2003 at 7:13:11 PM
NO, that's a really lucky find! I've never even spotted a Bottecchia anywhere around here....let alone in a thrift store. But I'm always looking to spot one!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by JONathan on 4/17/2003 at 7:36:32 PM
Whatever was original on my Bottecchia was changed out due to crashes, I'd suppose. When I bought it the front brake was bent into the wheel and the derailer was rubbing on the spokes. I through out everything except the cranks and chainwheels and I haev no recollection of their brand (before I became interested in "brands"). There are sparse decals and no extraneous braze-ons except for cabling. The Columbus tubes can be noted by simple inspection in that they appear "oversized" in a qualitative sense. I suppose you could measure the tubes, but on my Maino, the forks looks puffy compared to the normal forks of the '60's road bikes. At first, I thought they were heavy, but the bike is very lightweight (can't remember the actual). I have a Carnielli stem and bars on the Bot. Is the "special" the one with the pump braze-ons below the toptube? I think that's what I had on the old one. It was regular steel. If you have the Columbus tubes you have a cool bike, IMHO. They are well built. I will check a book to get info on models and post later, today (if I can locate the book).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by JONathan on 4/18/2003 at 4:18:03 AM
Rob, from "Cycle Digest"; 1973; which is a very interesting study of the topic in general; I found the section on Bottecchia. There was the Professional; Giro D'Italia; Special; Deluxe; Classic and Unisex. Of the six, only the first two had Columbus tubing. The Giro D'Italia had Campy "Valentino Extra" derailer, but so did the Special and Classic. The Unisex and Deluxe had Simplex. Mine is older (1964-65, I think ) so it's hard to say, but it's not the Pro. What a bike! Mine handles stiffer than any bike I've got. Above 10mph things start to feel real smooth. Definitely not a beginner's ride. Took me a while to settle into it's temperment. The polished lug work is exquisite as is the overall pre-bike boom aspect. For a production bike, it's sweet. If you have the Giro D'Italia tha'd be great as they are probably going to be pretty rare. The armored brake and shift cables on mine make me think it was a heavy tourer? But, hardly any braze-ons, not even for the brake cables. Wheel base is long, too. Right now, it's hanging in the winter quarters wedged in between a few others, or I could measure it. Let me know if you need any measurements (BB; headset; seatpost; etc.). If yours is like mine, you can fit some doggone big hoops on the front and rear! Watch that baby fly. JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   A lucky find...early 70's Bottecchia posted by Don on 4/18/2003 at 5:17:16 AM
Over the years, I made 3 Goodwill "finds": a Raleigh Supercourse in fair shape $9.95, an unridden Nashbar Sport RX 12 (Japanese chrome moly lugged frame, Sugino crank, Suntour ARX deraillers, Shimano hubs, ARAYA 27 X 1 1/8 presta valve rims with Blumel fenders also $9.95) and best of all, a new Weinmann 27" rim laced onto a front Campagnolo record hub for only $2.00 There are a few gems among all those Huffys & Free Spirits. Don

AGE / VALUE:   Torpado & Campy Track Wheel posted by: Tim Welsh on 4/16/2003 at 8:26:24 PM
Hi all.

I have two things to ask about. First is a "Torpado" bike (early 70's?), made in Italy, which I may be able to get cheap or free. It is chunky in construction, with fancy chrome headset lugs, entry-level Campy derailleurs, steel rims, no QR's, and a mix of other companies' components (Weinnman, etc). It's in great shape. Any thoughts about 'Torpado' in general, or this bike's collectibiity?

The other is about some unbelievable luck. I recently came by a Raleigh Pro in amazing condition, but with a Shimano 600 rear hub / wheel. Recently I saw a truck with bike parts along with other garbage, and left a note for the owner. I got a call back to take the parts, along with some other wheels. Turns out, two period-correct Campy Record rear wheels were in the lot (what are the odds). Only cost was my time and effort to haul them home.

One of the two Campy wheels has only a single cog, with freewheel, apparently original. I don't have much experience with track parts, is this a track bike wheel? I though track wheels are 'fixed' (no freewheel).

By the way, also in the lot was a Dura-Ace wheel (rim is trashed, but that can be fixed), and a lovely Ofmega rear wheel. That was a great day!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Torpado & Campy Track Wheel posted by Kevin K on 4/16/2003 at 8:48:09 PM
AH! Spring cleaning. Next, garage sales. May we all have a good hunt. Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Torpado & Campy Track Wheel posted by Warren on 4/16/2003 at 10:58:53 PM
Look carefully at the threads on the hub...if there is a second set of threads that are slightly smaller in diameter than the ones that the freewheel is mounted on...then you have a track hub. These threads are reverse thread for a (campy) lockring so you can't spin your cog off when braking with your legs.

Describe the hubs in detail...what writing is on the hubs...how many holes and are they 1 piece or are they 3 piece hubs where the flanges are pressed on to the main body. What about quick releases? Some of the early hubs are worth a pretty penny...it's useful to know what you have.

A word of warning...never cut the spokes off of a hub with a freewheel on it...it makes it very difficult to get the freewheel off and impossible to relace the wheel. Don't ask me how I know.

Finally, Torpado made some decent bikes and although yours appears to be middle of the pack, it sounds like a keeper...if your wheel is "track", you could make the Torpado into a righteous fixed gear road bike...whooo-hooo!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Torpado & Campy Track Wheel posted by Tim W on 4/16/2003 at 11:35:28 PM

Thanks for the tips on what to look for on the wheel. I will check for the things you mention. I have a 531 db Crescent that has horizontal drop-outs, and someone already hacked off the der hanger. It's geometry would make for an excellent track bike (major wheel-toe overlap), so maybe that's where this wheel will go.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Torpado & Campy Track Wheel posted by Warren on 4/17/2003 at 2:51:40 AM
The Crescent would be sweet...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Torpado & Campy Track Wheel posted by Keith on 4/17/2003 at 2:24:32 PM
In addition to the additional reverse threads Warren describes, a Campy track hub would have a solid axle and bolts, not a hollow axle for quick release skewer. Even if it's not a track hub, a road hub will work fine for fixed gear provided you either move spacers on the axle and redish and/or use spacers on the chainring to achieve an acceptable chainline.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Torpado & Campy Track Wheel posted by Dave on 4/17/2003 at 2:26:23 PM
A friend does Thursday night track races on a Torpado road bike.It has a real cool scripted logo headset.It's orange and very light.Check www.classicrendezvous.com under Italy for more info.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Torpado & Campy Track Wheel posted by steve on 4/17/2003 at 3:08:19 PM
Single freewheels became popular as a BMX component in the '70s. I ran across them in a "Bikecology" catalog at the time and used them on a number of level-ground utility bikes, with great enjoyment. I never had the courage to try a fixed gear.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Portage posted by: Ralph on 4/15/2003 at 7:27:33 PM
I ran across a Raleigh Portage the other day on the road. The guy riding it told me it was about 15 or 20 yrs old. It looked like an interesting bike. Decent components and the wheels were 650B. I never heard of it and wondered if anyone knew anything about it. He said he wanted to get a new bike and gave me his number for a possible sale.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Portage posted by Warren on 4/15/2003 at 11:26:24 PM
I'm sure the Portage was a mountain bike? Not too light I think...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Portage posted by Ralph on 4/16/2003 at 2:33:35 AM
Actually this thing is set up as a road bike. Drop bars, front & rear racks. It looks like a loaded touring bike.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Portage posted by JONathan on 4/16/2003 at 6:12:48 PM
I am unsure of any help on this one, but FWIT: I have tracked down info on a Takahara MTB which apparently are/were available for sale in Canada. At several sites (Canadian) I remember seeing Raleigh "Legend" and "portage" listed. The former is 18 speed, the latter is 15 speed. The term "portage" is associated with off-road touring and canoeing. The Raleigh "Elkhorn" has a brazed-on metal strap connecting the top and seat tubes. It's called a "portage" strap (although my "Elkhorn" from same vinatge has this absent). I would think "Canadian Raleigh", for your "Portage". Post at one of the Canadian club sites, you might get some answers. They all know about Takaharas, whereas around here on the Ca. coast, they are; "What was that called"? FYI, the Raleigh "Portage" is about $500 as a MTB version. I think Raleigh was scrambling to capture some MTB market after they caught on. I have a Raleigh "Lizard" that is basically a BMX frame with extra beef. I think the "Special Products Division" must have had fun turning this one out. The external welds on the fork ends and rear dropouts run 2 inches along the tubes. I am thinking about using the forks on a Raleigh "record" 3-sp. experimental bike. Those high-rise bars look cool.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Portage posted by JONathan on 4/17/2003 at 2:46:06 AM
I meant "Kuwahara", but there are Takaharas as well. I recall Kuwahara was offroad MTB and BMX. Not that either has anything in common with the "Portage", except for availability in Canada.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Portage posted by Ralph on 4/17/2003 at 4:29:00 PM
Thanks for the replies. I found a picture of it in Bulgier's Catalog archives at http://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Raleigh84/
It seems it was their touring bike after the Huffy/Raleigh deal.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Portage posted by Ralph on 4/17/2003 at 6:02:40 PM
Actually the link is:http://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Retro-Raleighs/
It's the 1984 catalog.

AGE / VALUE:   Trash emails gone after ebay user id change posted by: Tom Findley on 4/15/2003 at 11:09:22 AM
If you are getting a lot of trash emails and use your email as your ebay user id, change it.

I was getting 20 emails per day from all kinds of websites I never heard of. Some were from Nigeria wanting to transfer $15 million to my bank account, some to enlarge body parts, some to reestablish my credit, etc.

Yesterday I changed my ebay User Id from my email address to trfindley.

This morning there was only 1 trash email addressed to me.

Somehow people are able to scan ebay user names, and send emails to those which are a valid email address.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trash emails gone after ebay user id change posted by Wings on 4/16/2003 at 5:38:56 AM
I hear you!
I made the same error a long time ago by listing my email address on ebay! I went to another email address with another server and I get zero junk mail! I also had up to 20+ email adds and most were for enlarging things or selling items or I was a winner or they had my invoice! It is a drag to delete all of that constantly.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trash emails gone after ebay user id change posted by Walter on 4/16/2003 at 10:41:27 AM
Question: If I change my ID do I get stuck with those sunglasses after my new name? I don't have a huge feedback file but it's 100% + and I don't want to lose that.

Have any of you gotten those eBay scammers that try to trick you into revealing your password? I've gotten 2 such emails, promptly dumped.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trash emails gone after ebay user id change posted by Tom Findley on 4/16/2003 at 10:50:50 AM
You get stick with the sunglasses, and your feedback is linked to the new name.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trash emails gone after ebay user id change posted by Ian on 4/16/2003 at 10:55:52 AM
Tom, unfortunately I do not think it is using your email address as part of your I.D. that causes it. My eBay I.D. is nothing to do with my address but I am still getting heaps of junk emails about Viagra, DVDs, Nigerian money etc just lately. I have two email addresses, one on Hotmail, and they are coming to both. Although ebay has my address of course the only place I have ever posted it as a link is here but I am getting them at the other address as well so even that does not make sense. Just make sure you do not "unsubscribe" if invited to as that just confirms the address is live.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trash emails gone after ebay user id change posted by Stacey on 4/16/2003 at 11:01:55 AM
Walter... look at me when I'm talking to you. :-) Changing your ID at eBay WILL give you 0 feedback & shades. but that's NOT the issue here. The issue is changing your E-MAIL ADDRESS... a completely different function all together. This will have no impact on your feedback rating nor will it give you shades.

AGE / VALUE:   YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN WHAT I SAW posted by: Kevin K on 4/15/2003 at 1:03:07 AM
Hi all. I was invited over to a guys house to look through some boxes of bike parts he bought from a bike shop that went out of business. WOW! It wasn't just a couple boxes, but his entire garage.I saw those really cool old Simplex deraoilleurs that are all chrome and work with three speed freewheels. Beautiful chrome Simplex downtube shifters, not the crappy plastic ones we usually see. These were fine chrome pieces. A really cool Benolux ( sp ) rear derailleur. Dozens of cool old frame pumps from Italy and England. A couple Blumell's as I recall. A nice set of RED Blumell's mudguards. A bunch of Bluemell's shorty's in white. The guy says there are other colors too. Lots of Japanese stuff, but the old French and British items were so cool. Made me want to hunt up an old Raleigh frame. He's even got a set of old stock folding 27" tires I'm going to pick up next time. Really a neat way to have spent my evening. Kevin K

FOR SALE:   Larz Anderson Bike Show T-shirt posted by: Chuck Schmidt on 4/14/2003 at 5:17:56 PM
Official Larz Anderson Bike Show T-shirts for sale. Note: These will not be available at the event. Mailorder only.

Details at:

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Azuki - Japanese posted by: Gralyn on 4/14/2003 at 11:29:44 AM
Anyone ever heard of an Azuki? I picked one up yesterday because I didn't have an Azuki - and because it was only a few bucks. It looks very similar to Nishiki. Even the font for the "Azuki" name on the down-tube looks like the font on a Nishiki Olympic I have. There is a decal on the seat tube which also looks almost identical. It has the same steel cottered cranks as were on the Nishiki. Sun Tour, Dia-Compe center pulls, dual position levers, SR stem. It's 10-speed, non-alloy frame, steel rims. My guess is a 70's Japanese bike boom job. I will probably re-build, clean and polish it. If the cranks clean up good enough - I may keep them on the bike - otherwise - I may replace the cranks with alloy crankset.

     Azuki - Japanese posted by John E on 4/14/2003 at 1:32:48 PM
Azuki competed with Kawamura / Nishiki during the bike boom. Yes, yours sounds like their Olympic clone, with in turn was Japan's answer to the Schwinn Continental (and only 2 kg. lighter). Although the higher-end Azukis, such as the Nishiki SemiPro / Competition equivalent, were quite decent, I prefer the lighter, more resilient Peugeot UO-8 over the lower-end offerings.

When we started selling Azuki at Bikecology, I liked to ask my coworkers, "What do you use to get into a menagerie? ... A Zoo Key."

   RE:  Azuki - Japanese posted by Dave on 4/14/2003 at 4:20:33 PM
I bought one for $10 at a police auction several years ago.People were bidding $100 for department store mountainbikes!It was a nice riding machine but was a 25" frame,(too big).The paint was really bad too,but the decals held up well.Someone told me these were low end Nishiki's.

   RE:RE:  Azuki - Japanese posted by Gralyn on 4/14/2003 at 8:16:10 PM
Yes, that's what it seems to me - a low-end Nishiki. I think it will clean up nicely, though. The rims are a little rusty - but not too bad - and the paint doesn't appear to be too bad.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh "sports"; get or not get posted by: JONathan on 4/13/2003 at 4:46:58 PM
I popped in at the local Sal. Army Store for a look see and spotted a lady-frame "sports" for $29.99. It looked unridden in any accountable sense and it was obviously garaged judging by the woofy build-up (probably stored near a clothes dryer). It has been pretty weak pickins for Raleighs around here, so I was somewhat interested.
I profess ignorance of their collectability, but have had considerable repair stints on those beasts and they are pretty solid bikes. Do you think this is a good buy? I have a couple already for parts which I have yet to tap, since the "runner" hasn't needed any repairs...just tune-ups. I don't ride it except to test that it's roadworthy. I'm thinking it's a good deal at the price. Any words? Thanks, JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by JONathan on 4/13/2003 at 5:07:51 PM
The age? Yes, well the hub was covered in a dried jacket of lint impregnated into residual surface oil. I would say it's about 1970, +/- 2 yrs. based on the spring saddle and pointed front fender (little chrome lob on the tip).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by Warren on 4/13/2003 at 10:28:55 PM
Not truly collectable unless they are more than 40 years old in great condition with accessories. Having said that they are an example of some of the "best" built bikes ever made that will outlast 3 or 4 generations of owners. I think everyone should have one on the porch. I have bought and restored at least a dozen of these and passed them along to family and friends at little cost. They appreciate them. I've got an early 50's Hercules, a 54 Humber, a 57 Superbe and a 59 Sports.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by David on 4/14/2003 at 10:44:47 AM
$30 is kind of steep for this bike, even in good condition. It seems that open-frame "ladies'" bikes are always in better shape because they were ridden less. Some clues to date (other than cleaning oily dust off the hub!) include shifter (plastic cover? all steel? lettering is legible with trigger on top or bottom?), pedals (reflectors? screw-on dust cap?) type face of decals (block serif "Raleigh" on chainguard? ) Value is more if it has leather saddle, brazed-on chainguard mounts, pump pegs (pump?), solid (not wire) fender stays, etc.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by Dave on 4/14/2003 at 4:24:49 PM
If the parts are in good condition it may be worth the price.My wife rode one but the side pull brakes work very poorly,(esp. when raining).After she collided with another woman on a club ride she gave the bike away to a mutual friend.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by JONathan on 4/15/2003 at 3:25:24 AM
Thanks, gents. Appreciate all the kind words. Well, I went back late today and it was there, but it's not a "sports" as I had previously said. Rather, it's a Raleigh "Sprite"; 1976 (fr. SA/AW hub). There are three brazed on fittings for the chainguard, fenders that are color matched (redish brown), squared off and full fit. A huge double cargo cage on the back. The shifter has a steel plate with a plastic cover. The lever looks like a blob of black RTV is on the end, but it's part of the lever. Pretty goofy lookin. I decided to get it, because it looks newer than the one my wife rides. Usually, I can shove her Raleigh "sports" right under the low profile hatch on the camper shell when we take the bikes, but this bike hung up. I had the seat down, too. I discovered that it has 27x1 1/4 in. tires (Michelin, made in England) which have a car tire tread pattern. The brakes are big steel clasper sidepulls with pad slots that look like a 26 in. wheel could be used. Is the "sprite" a better bike than is the "sports". The bike rides smooth, in the parkin' lot. I could ride it and I take a 25 in. frame. Thanks, again. JONathan

MISC:   Made in Italy posted by: DannyJoe on 4/13/2003 at 3:41:01 AM
I have a neighbor giving me a 10 speed road bike tomorrow which I only briefly looked over today. The headbadge sticker was gone but the seat tube sticker near the top read Made In Italy with another decal lower on the tube of a building. The main down tube had the word's Ten Speed, it was decked out with componet's like you would find on a mid-level Peuguot(?), Simplex Delrin(?) rear derailluer, center-pull brake's and so on. What Italian made bike's at the mid-range level would you find here in the state's during the early '70's? Tomorrow I will try and list on here more of the componet's once I get the bike home. I was aware of several french bike maker's importing bike's during the bike boom of the 1970's, I have a Stella made Arctic bicycle, but didn't know if Italy did the same.

   RE:MISC:   Made in Italy posted by DannyJoe on 4/13/2003 at 3:39:00 PM
Here are a few of the part's found on the above listed bike

3ttt stem
Balilla centerpull brake's
Simplex derailluer frt/rear
Grand Prix seat plastic/may have been covered
cottered crankset(?)
ornate lugwork
Serial no. at top of headtube 2L 13257

Anyone have a clue of what brand of bike I may have? My guess is that it was imported during the 10 speed bike boom here in the state's during the 1970's.

   Boomer posted by Walter on 4/13/2003 at 7:42:48 PM
Agree with your anlysis that it's a boom bike. Mid to early 70s as the Japanese drove most of the lower to mid-line Euros out by the later 70s. Unfortunately I can't offer anything except speculation as to make.

Component mix is nearly ubiquitous. As you mention these changers were often on Peugeots. Earlier lower line Motobecanes were frequently equipped this way. The component mix you describe including the ornate looking lugs and the plastic Grand Prix seat (I'm pretty sure they were uncovered and a copy of the Cinelli Unicantor) exactly matches a "Del Romi" I found NOS a year or so ago and put together for my father in law. However, that bike had decals that claimed it was Belgian. Saw a very similar bike labelled as an Eddy Merckx once too.

Olmo made/makes a very large line of bikes so that's my WA guess.

   RE:Boomer posted by DannyJoe on 4/13/2003 at 9:45:46 PM
The frame was a little weathered which left the decal's, the one's which were left flaking, it was absent of a headtube decal but the downtube had the word's Ten Speed and the seattube had a Made in Italy sticker. Thank's for your input. Neat little bike and just my size, also the handlebars are aluminum with no marking's that I see.

   RE:RE:Boomer posted by JONathan on 4/14/2003 at 1:20:26 AM
Bottecchia made several models for export to the USA during that period (late '60's - early '70's) of which I have one. It's a raw-boned critter with chrome on the head lugs, fork crowns (flat lugged) bottom half of seatstays, chainstays, and dropouts (forged steel). It had fenders and lots of space for the 27 inch wheels. With 28 inch wheels and a 54/40 pushing a 13-28 rear 5-speed it is a "highway" machine. It flat out burns up blacktop, handles like a champ at higher speed, but is a "leather mouth" (horse term) in tight quarters. I mean, it is a beastie-bike. I have cottered Sugino on it, which was a mistake that I made 10 years ago, but it runs quiet, so I'll stay with it for a while. I have a SunTour "Cyclone" on the back. Downtube shifters and a 26 inch frame. I have no idea of the model, but some have thought it was "deluxe", which was not the top of the line by a stretch, but very good quality and workmanship. It looks like my most noble bike. My other Italiano is a Maino. Never heard of it? Well, they too came into the west from the Alessandria, It. factory. Maino is actually an old bike outfit that is linked to the Columbus tubing in some way. I heard the story from a guy who grew up near there (Pavona). Now, the Maino that I have is festooned with decals and stripes of tinfoil-like strips. It was a glitter (look at me) bike. I is Columbus tubes, very light and is a nervous ride (geometry?). It has elaborate lugs and was fitted with the "plastic-fantastic", ubiquitous Simplex, "prestige". Well, it shifts great, anyway. I had a third Italian ride (Bottecchia?), that had Campy "Valentino deluxe" shifters and a pump mount under the toptube! It was a tough bike that survived lots of hard, dirt road runs. I cranked the seat stays on one trip to the coast on gravel roads. I wish I had kept it. Those can be repaired, as I now know. I'd think; "Bottecchia". The head badge is impressive. A big eagle with mountains with snow in back. Mine doesn't have a decal that says; "made in Italy", I guess they figureed with a name like Botteccchia, everyone would know. If it's a bike from the pre-boom or early boom days, I would fix it to ride. The Italian bikes are pretty easy to refit. JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:Boomer posted by DannyJoe on 4/14/2003 at 2:05:48 AM
It's a Chiorda, I'm back from visiting the Classic Rendezvous link on Italian bike's and found my decal's there. It's mid-range componet's laden bike but it's my first Italian ride found in the most unlikely of place's, farmland's of Illinois, a stone's throw from my home and best of all it was free. Thank's everyone! a Chiorda, magnifico!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Boomer posted by JONathan on 4/14/2003 at 3:57:47 AM
Can't beat that! I wish there were free Italian bikes around here. The Peugeots are still plentiful.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Boomer posted by Dave on 4/14/2003 at 4:30:28 PM
Amen , although a couple of friends both fished Atala's out of alleys dumpsters,(all I see are Varsities).

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1973 Schwinn ??? posted by: andym on 4/13/2003 at 2:17:00 AM
I've got a question for you schwinn collectors.I have a 1973? schwinn,serial # CJ804729 on the head tube.I can't figure out what model this one is.It has a fillet brazed cro-moly frame, with three piece nervar alloy crank.It has shimano shifters,shimano titlist front derailleur and shimano crane rear with "le tour" badge.The frame has all the decals except for a model name.At first I thought it was a "superior" because I have one, and they are identical except for the derailleurs.With some research I've found that schwinn did'nt build any superiors in 73'. So then I thought it might be a "sports tourer" but these models have brazed on kick stands. The sports tourer also was'nt painted black. So hopefully someone can help me out with this.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1973 Schwinn ??? posted by andym on 4/13/2003 at 2:51:36 AM
Sorry, that serial # is GJ804729

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1973 Schwinn ??? posted by JONathan on 4/13/2003 at 3:24:01 AM
The "I" is not used because it is too much like a "1", so it is a 1973. I have a "H" on my SuperSport (sport) which would make it a 1972.
Nice find.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1973 Schwinn ??? posted by andym on 4/13/2003 at 4:00:02 AM
Ok,I found a 1973 sports tourer on ebay, item# 3603384861. It looks like schwinn stopped brazing kick stands on by then. The graphics on this bike are different than on mine.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1973 Schwinn ??? posted by JONathan on 4/13/2003 at 4:19:43 AM
I'm coming up with "opaque blue"; "sunset orange" amd "kool lemon" for the colors on the Sports Tourer for 1973. My 1972 Super Sport handles a bit tankish with the forged cranks, a bit like my Varsity with alloy wheels. It is lighter, but I really can't notice 5 pounds frame diff. on the road. The Sports Tourer is a better ride with the alloy crankset. The fillet brazed frame on my SuperSport is very clean lookin'.

   RE: 1973 Schwinn ??? posted by Eric Amlie on 4/13/2003 at 2:19:44 PM
You can't go by the color to identify year and model. I've seen many many cases where a Schwinn is a color not listed in the catalog for it's particular model and year.

It's got to be a Sports Tourer because of the cotterless crank, but I can't figure out that kickstand. I have a '73 Sports Tourer that has the brazed on kickstand. One other thought, is the bottom bracket hanger the small threaded type for the three piece cranks or is it the larger type for the one piece Ashtabula crank with a bottom bracket converter installed in it(I did this to fit a Stronglight 99 triple to my '66 Super Sport). Also, are the rear dropouts forged Hurets or are they plain stamped steel?

   RE:RE: 1973 Schwinn ??? posted by JONathan on 4/13/2003 at 4:31:57 PM
Yes, indeed, the color schemes breakdown when applied as a unary diagnostic. However, rgardless of what changeouts (BB swap?) may have taken place, if the color matches one of the three, then some weight is applied to the possibility of it being a SportsTourer. What color (original) is the thing? Frankly, I would be surprised if the Nevar was original. My Le Tour II has a Japanese cotterless set. Well, at least you have the year down pat. JONathan

   RE:RE: 1973 Schwinn ??? posted by andym on 4/13/2003 at 6:08:32 PM
Eric,it does have the small diameter,threaded bottom bracket.I've looked closely at the bike on ebay and I can't see a kick stand on that one either.Whats also puzzling is that the graphics on my 73' are the same as on my 77',except where it says Superior on the top tube,of course.It must be the original paint because it still has the dealer sticker on it.

Yes JONathan, the nervar crank is original equipment,as it is also on the superior. Also,I'm thinking that because they are hand brazed,it might have been up to whoever was assembling the frame,whether or not it had a kickstand.

   RE:RE:RE: 1973 Schwinn ??? posted by JONathan on 4/14/2003 at 1:35:16 AM
Wait, Andym. How about a custom order Sport Tourer? I know were not talking Buicks, here, but why not? All the other pieces (so to speak) fall into place. Besides, it does resolve the whole question. JONathan