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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

MISC:   Larz Anderson National Bike Show posted by: Peter Naiman, Alias- Hetchinspete on 4/22/2003 at 2:47:37 AM
This is a list of the cycles you will be seeing on the Larz Anderson Concourse this Sunday on the 27th. We expect a number of other, lightweights, Highwheelers, Antique, and Ballon Tire to arrive on show day. The Museum of Transportation will also have their collection of rare antique cycles on display. Most of their prized collection is from the 1880 to early 1900s.

1958 Holdsworth "Triallist". 16 pound path racer.
37 Gloria La Garabaldina Extra. First (I believe) Italian produced Simplex
derailleur. Company that launched the careers of Masi, Colnago and others. many
details of both makers prevalent in this cycle. Satin nickle finish, chrome
lugs, painted spearpoint highlights. Original and complete.
46 Wilier la Triestina. Professional team bike of famous Magni, Cottur,
Bevilacqua team. Copper plated classic, original and complete
68 Masi GC. First year for this classic. Masi drilled components and custom
Bellini/Masi saddle. restored over three years. Champagne/yellow.
73 Masi GC. Team red of the first Carlsbad batch. Breaking Away. original and
1980 Jim Merz. Custom built for Vegas show with first issue Shimano AX group.
Aero cable routing, bb/chainstay mounted rear brake. Ferrari red.
84 Dave Grylls 3Rensho Pursuit bike. Stuning aero design in classic 3Rensho
purple. Classic Yoshi Konno design.
58 Rene Herse Pista. Work in progress.
68 Cinelli SC,bivalent, first Campy brakes, rear der.
1936 Hetchins with mostly original componants, 7th oldest cycle on the
Hetchins Registry at the VCC.
1938 Hetchins Anglo Continental, restored ( will be at Larz if completed in
time)Second oldest surviving Anglo of five known to survive, with original sales
slips from Hetchins.
1939 Hetchins Trio, one of only two surviving, unrestored with all original
1946 Hetchins Super Special, restored with gorgious correct 1940s group. One
of only about twenty surviving. Pre-curser the the Nulle Secundus.
1950/51 Hetchins Experto Crede. One owner cycle in original unrestored
condition, with all origial group.
1955 Hetchins Magnum Opus Phase II, restored by prior owner, with 1980 Campy
Super Record.
1956 Hetchins Expert Crede track bike. Might be unrestored.
1962 Hetchins Experto Crede track bike, restored by Bob Jackson. Gorgious.
1962 Experto Crede with Vibrant Stays. From Bicycle Classics
1967 Hetchins Hellenic straight stay. (may be ready to show).
2000 Hetchins Millenium. If ready to show. Will be ready for Cirque.
1966 Schwinn Paramount. Full chrome. Will be for sale after showing.
1983 Mercian Vincetore with Gold Galli group. Will be for sale after showing.
1984 Ciocc Designer with full Campag pantographed group. Will be for sale
after showing.
1950 Frddie Grubb All Rounder
1973 Cinelli Track Bike
1978 Teledyne Titanium. Spotless
1975 Gitane Tour de France
Early 1960s Masi Special
1973 Masi Gran Criterium
1973 California Masi
1950s Atala
1976 Medici Pro Strada
1970s Cas Vitus Pro Team
1980 Vitus Carbon
1973 Raleigh Record Ace
1936 German Six Day track bike by Schumacher
1980s Roberts
Two French town bikes
2001 Rivendell
1946 Hobbs Barbicon, restored
30 th Anniversary Richard Sachs
1971 Masi Gran Criterium
1939 Hetchins Brilliant
1930s Durkoff Six Day
1951 Raleigh Clubman with S/A 4Spd
2001 Rivendell Custom by Curt Goodrich
1952 Claude Butler Jubilee
1977 Roberts Road Bike
1970s Pugeot PX10
1937 Raleigh Tourist, won First Place at Cirque last year.
1940 Drysdale Special track bike
1974 Raleigh Professional (restored by Brian Baylis)
1976 Raleigh Competition Superbe
1917 Harley Davidson
1934 Schwinn Arrowcycle
1936 Elgin Skylark
1960 Bowden Spaceliner/ unrestored
1937 Dayton Huffman/ Firestone Fleetwood with full twinflex suspension
1955 Huffman Radio Bike
1951 Schwinn Black Phantom
1951 Schwinn Black Phantom with 1947 Whizzer Kit
1950 Schwinn Black Panther
1952 Schwinn Black Phantom
1897 Ladies Sterling
1915 Mens Columbia
1896 Mens Tall Frame Defiant
1926 Ladies Hibbard
1910 Mebs Red Indian
1920s Colson Fairy
1890s Eagle Highwheel
1890s Eagle Highwheel
1890s New Mail High Wheel
and a few assorted safeties and Ivor Johsons may accompany this Highwheel Collection.

MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by: JONathan on 4/22/2003 at 12:44:03 AM
How was it possible to have stem shifters on 10 speeds supplant the tested and true downtube shifters? If the idea was to make it more convenient or "comfortable" for a novice rider, I say who tested that? I find any slight pressure on the handlebar causes instability of the front forks and wheel in addition there is hardly ANY control with hands on the stem! In contrast, the DT shifters are stable even under hard pressure because of the location (lower) and on a tube that is not taking direct impact from the road (as is the forks and the stem). So, I ask, can anyone propose a reasonable (read "any") reason for the dominance of the stem shifters on bike-boom bikes? Secondly, the shift is ALWAYS better with a shorter cable distance to the derailer. Peugeot bikes that I have from the '70's all have stem shifters as standard fittings and Peugeot had been making bicycles for decades. Just a rant. JONathan

   RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by Walter on 4/22/2003 at 2:21:09 AM
I mentioned them in a discussion about quality definitions several threads down. I believe they were fairly unique to the US market. Why? I don't know for sure but have some ideas. There may have been a perception of safety for younger riders as it could be claimed the hand was never far from the stem and bars. Bikes with stem shifters often sported brake "safety" extension levers too. I think they were aimed at parents buying for younger riders also b/c they were always on either department store brands or on the lower line offerings from makers such as Peugeot, Raleigh, Motobecane and etc. The tyoe of bikes a parent might be expected to buy for their kid who now wanted a "10 speed."

An alternative theory might be that Schwinn was selling "Varsinentals" hand over fist so other makers decided to use a familiar shifting set up and then compete against Schwinn by claiming lighter weight. A person who was in the biz back in the '70s can provide a more definitive answer, I was just a kid hanging out in shops.

Btw my '78 Moto came with stem shifters which I scrapped for SunTour Barcons which, IMO, are still great shifters.

   RE:RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by Gralyn on 4/22/2003 at 2:32:42 AM
It's funny now - but I really hate when just about every old bike-boom bike I find has those stem-shifters. It's funny because at one time - a long time ago - I wouldn't have down-tube shifters. It had to be stem shifters! I can remember back in the 70's - reading about how down-tube shifters were better - but I ignored all that and just thought how it seemed convenient to have them there on the stem. Back when I thought I preferred stem shifters - I had never actually tried down-tube shifters. Now that I have used both - I much prefer the down-tube shifter.

I have several bikes I would convert to down-tube - provided I find the necessary parts.

I don't know how or why they ended up selling everybody on the stem-shifters - I don't even remember them even giving any advantages to it. The only thing I can remember thinking about it - was that when riding - using the hand position ....hands on the top of the bar. They had even conveniently put extra brake levers so that you could keep your hands on the top of the bars. To add to that - they had the shifters there as well.

   RE:RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by JONathan on 4/22/2003 at 4:42:18 AM
Interesting. I can't remember experiencing a control problem riding while shifting from the DT, but I continually have little moments of excitement fiddling with stem shifters. MTB and Bar-Cons make perfect sense, providing the bars can take them. The "safety" bars are just the opposite, too. Part of the stupidity of stem shifting is that there is no inertia in the stem to resist lateral forces like you have beaucoup in the DT's. The torque spikes when a cable slips is also exciting on a stem shifter. Apart from chainstay pipe=vise kickstands, I can't rate anything lower. The stem shifter clamp works loose all by itself, too, as I've found on numerous rides over 25 miles. I wonder if the concept was ever tested before marketing.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by Dave on 4/22/2003 at 2:43:25 PM
Another unpleasant problem w/stem shifters,esp. w/short top tube bikes,(I do have fairly long arms for my height), was the process of climbing hills.My knees would sometimes hit the shift lever,(esp. those long ones on Varsinentals), and would put me into a higher gear.Downtube or Barends are the answer.I really don't much care for the brake lever shifters either,all the more reason to ride Vintage bikes.

   RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by steve on 4/22/2003 at 3:26:32 PM
My first derailleur bike had stem shifters, and did have the lateral stability problem while shifting. But the reach to the downtube shift position did too. So I got barcons on the first good bike and most subsequent ones. I did try a formal trial of downtube shifters and found that I still didn't like them. My riding style has always been on the upper bars, head up for vision in traffic; I only went to the drops when I had to go to into a headwind while touring. I rigged the brakes accordingly, using upright-type levers positioned under the center section of the bars - or the hard-to-find Mafac "Guidonnet" levers.
Recently, I've amused myself by setting up a bike as a loaner for a friend's possible visit. Since I knew she had stuck with stem shifters, I found a pair at Recycled Cycles and gave them a ride. To my surprise, I found I liked them now! Intrigued, I got another set and put them on the beloved old Assenmacher for the definitive trial. The stem shifters and the center-bar brake levers seem to complement each other beautifully. I find a lot of the rear shifting can be done with just a sweep of the right thumb. The left/front shift motion does require the left hand to come off the bars - but the right hand provides more than adequate control.
Moral: In cycling, what is "politically correct" is as limiting as it is in any other setting. The only right answer is the one that works best for you.

   RE:RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by JONathan on 4/22/2003 at 4:01:43 PM
True words. A quaote from Herbert Spenser comes to mind. Contempt really stunts the creative process. My motto for years about cycling has been that; "If it runs, I can ride it". But, I'm still curious about my original question. The Varsity supposition is interesting. Fads can be powerful marketing engines. The stem shifters were "new" and different and I actually thought they were "better" because of that aspect. I wouldn't call them an evolutionary deadend, just yet. Look at U-brakes under the chain as an example. I have stuck with them on my vintage MTB, because they worked better. The design has observable tangents to physics. Can't say that about stem shifters. I gave up (learned the hard way) that I couldn't tell someone what was best for them, esp. with bikes! JONathan

      stem shifters posted by John E on 4/22/2003 at 4:42:19 PM
I trace the stem shifter fad to the 1967 Varsinentals, which featured TwinStiks and suicide brake extension levers. Yes, these two features definitely complement one another and attempt to accommodate upright-sitting bar-top cyclists. The Schwinn TwinStik and its single-lever equivalent did make sense on the Collegiates and Suburbans, with their upright handlebars, although mountain bike style twist grips or thumb levers, or even barcons, might have been better.

In 1974, Peugeot converted the UO-8 (but never the PR-10 or PX-10) from downtube to stem shifters, in response to competition from Schwinn. (Mafac even offered a suicide brake extension conversion kit for a time.) The extra cabling made the Simplex Prestige gear train, already struggling to accommodate a 52-40 / 14-28 gear range, even more temperamental.

As for the U-brake under the chainstay, I consider it an integral feature of my old school Schwinn Project KOM-10 mountain bike, and it works well enough that I accept its dirt collection and repair access challenges.

   RE:   stem shifters posted by JONathan on 4/22/2003 at 9:22:51 PM
Very interesting hypothesis. So it would seem it was not a product of long research and development that spawned the stem shifting phenomenon experienced in the '70's and '80's, I would presume. Which is consistent with what I have learned about bicycles in the last half of the 20th century. The "tuning fork" seatstays (I call 'em that) that are on a couple of my bikes were actually used by either Bianchi or another old company I can't recall as I saw a picture of one such frame arrangement in a picturebook of antique bikes written in Italian. They must have tried just about everything! Thanks, JONathan

   RE:RE:   stem shifters posted by JONathan on 4/22/2003 at 9:33:20 PM
May I add a note on brakes. The idea of brake leverage and steering control are important simultaneous functions which it would seem to be somewhat compromised in the top locations. As an individual preference, I want that brake down at the front where I can really maintain maximum control of the steerage while braking hard. Just my2c's. JONathan

   RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by Jimbo Jones on 4/23/2003 at 3:00:28 AM
You have to take your eyes away from the road to shift the DT shifters. When you do you will hit a pothole , do the old "nutcracker" routine, shove your hand into the front spokes and ruin your sex life forever. Thats what Ive been told anyways.

Stem shifters are useless but I bet the reason for their existance is not to far from that. Some kind of 70s bike boom pseudo-safey hocus-pocus.

   RE:RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by JONathan on 4/23/2003 at 3:28:04 AM
Yes, indeed, that would be an important consideration. Maybe I'm a circus performer waiting to be discovered, but I really DON'T look at the DT shifter while shifting. Probably I did while learning to ride. Can't recall the process. As if hitting a chuck hole wasn't bad enough, now there is the hand-in-the-spokes to worry about. I guess we are luckier than chance would dictate. I had a Hercules 3 sp. with a shifter on the toptube which worked well as a pace bike for my Malemute. I still have the shifter, but not the bike.

   RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by P Lavery on 4/23/2003 at 10:45:09 AM
I never had any problems using stem shifters. I don't prefer them over the integrated shifters that we have on
the newer bikes or the old down tube shifters. It's just
what I grew up with. Using them is no big deal. You always
need to plan your gear changes according to the terrain anyway.

   RE:RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by Dave on 4/23/2003 at 1:50:16 PM
I have a good friend named Ed, he was reaching for his waterbottle and hit a pothole square,went down in a heap.He was riding a '72 Huffy w/stem shifters,which goes to show you shifters don't always cause accidents.He broke his nose and had 6 stitches in his lip.We re-dedicated the street name as "Ed K. Faceparkway I",(yes there is a "Ed K. Faceparkway II).Here in Chicagoland the flat terrain doesn't require much shifting so I guess for local rides stem shifters are fine.

   RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by Ray on 4/23/2003 at 2:43:08 PM
I just had to chime in. Stem shifters were around about the same time as those Sting-Ray Stik Shifters and the like. There was a trend to put things on top of the bike for ease of access and to look cool. Unfortunatly they were more for show then go. Anyone who has owned one of those Schwinn "Lightweight" bikes can tell you that the stem shifters weighted about as much as a modern day wheelset. They were ugly, too big for their intended job, heavy, slow and more suited for keeping a Bar-B-Que chicken on top of the stem for a quick snack. They also made a good bike stand when you turned the bike upside down to fix a flat. The design and engineering team must have had a vacation month when they came up with this monstrosity.

   RE:RE:MISC:   stem shifters concept posted by JONathan on 4/23/2003 at 5:21:14 PM
The BL for me is keep the top clean of anything that's not essential to be there. The hoses poking out into the handlebar pack makes the stem shifter an irritation if not a hazard to navigation. I think I have a good idea, now, how all this stem shifting came to be. My "Sea Biscuit" is a venerable carbolite 103 (gaspipe) UO-8 with stem shifters. I hate to admit that either out of laziness or because it's a nice hook for my sack of burgers that I haven't changed them out. With a tight shifting SunTour "cyclone" rear der., I really have no beefs. Not enough to make me pop open the tool box to this point. I would stay clear of any esthetic evaluation, since that is the "eye of the beholder" thing. All I know is the first time my hound dog ripped across the bow agter the rabbit, it would catch like a docking cleat and I'd go down hard!

AGE / VALUE:   CRANKSET QUESTIONS posted by: Kevin K on 4/21/2003 at 9:22:10 PM
Hi all. I purchased an old stock Nevar crankset a while back. Today I installed it on the bike and attempted to install the pedals. They will not fit! The crankset came in a Schwinn Approved bag so I guessed the threads to be English. Are the French threads? Am I out of luck? Also I bought back a nice Lotus I'd traded off a few years back. The man that bought from me it hadn't ridden it for several years so he sold it back to me. It's indexed shifting with a Shimano Biopace chainrings. I'd like to replace the chainrings. Will any chainrings work or are index rings different? Thanks, Kevin K

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   CRANKSET QUESTIONS posted by Warren on 4/21/2003 at 9:47:04 PM
You could have have french pedals or there is another pedal standard as well found on old roadsters and such. It takes a half inch axle instead of the usual 9/16". Maybe? Circular rings should swap for Biopace no problem.

   RE: CRANKSET QUESTIONS posted by Eric Amlie on 4/22/2003 at 3:16:29 PM
Kevin, you didn't say if the pedal threads were too big or too small for the crank arms. If they are too big you are in luck. Most likely the cranks are French threaded and your pedals are British threaded. It is an easy job to rethread the cranks to British. If you don't have the taps yourself, your local bike shop should be able to do for you for a reasonable price (like $5.00 per side). If the crank holes are too big for the pedals you will either have to find the right pedals or have some sort of inserts put into the crank arms. Helicoil comes to mind but I think I remember reading somewhere that there are some better ones(specifically for bike cranks) but I don't remember what they are. Again, your local bike shop should be able to help you but this is likely to be significantly more expensive. Good luck with it.

   RE:RE: CRANKSET QUESTIONS posted by Kevin K on 4/22/2003 at 3:22:33 PM
Hi guys. The hole size is 9/16 in all cases, just the wrong thread. I should probally save the crankset for a Sports Tourer in which case I could simply use Atom ( Schwinn/ French pedals ) and use a different crankset in the above situation. In any case, thank you both for the tips. Kevin

   pedal threads posted by John E on 4/22/2003 at 4:54:40 PM
From that cycling Francophile, Sheldon, who should know:

"French-thread Pedals
Most French bikes sold in the U.S. used standard thread pedals:
9/16" x 20 TPI (14.29 mm/.527" x 1.27)
But older bikes made for the French market used a slightly smaller thread:
14 mm x 1.25 (.551" x 20.32 TPI)
If your cranks are made for standard-thread pedals, a French-thread pedals will fit in, but be very loose and will be unusable. It is not possible to put a standard pedal into a French crank without considerable violence.
It is possible to re-tap French cranks to take standard pedals."

[Note: 14mm = 8.82/16". Threading French pedals into English cranks is a great way to strip crank threads. Because of the loading involved, I would have grave reservations about using a helicoil in this application, and you would have to find an anticlockwise helicoil for the left side, anyway. Retapping French-threaded cranks to ISO may be a reasonable course of action, but I gave away my TA Professionals and French-threaded pedal set, to avoid having to deal with this whole issue.]

   RE:pedal threads posted by Warren on 4/22/2003 at 10:36:37 PM
Hey JohnE...guess what? The latest generation of TA pro pedals are labelled as both ISO and French standard. Apparently they have reshaped the profile of the the threads and have found some magical compromise that will work with both thread pitches. Someone on the CR list tried them and was able to use them on both but one (the french?) was tight.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   CRANKSET QUESTIONS posted by Oscar on 4/23/2003 at 9:26:50 PM
I have a set of pedals marked 1/2, but are too big to fit onto the one piece crank of a Schwinn Super Sport. They appear to be made for US/British since they are marked with L/R not G/D. Do you suppose that these are French threaded, too?

AGE / VALUE:   Del Romi bicycle posted by: Jon on 4/21/2003 at 7:45:55 PM
I have a Del Romi bike that I've owned for about 30 years. The decal says it was made in West Germany. Its a full lugged frame. I recently rebuilt both hubs, put on a new rear cassette, new chain, new cables, and new rubber. The bike is riding very nicely and I'm considering having the frame painted, but wanted to learn more about the bike before taking this step.

Does anyone know anything about Del Romi bikes? So far I haven't had any luck in trying to research them.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Del Romi bicycle posted by Walter on 4/22/2003 at 2:01:07 AM
About a year and a half ago I picked up one NOS in a box off eBay for pretty minimal $. A Boom special with Simplex plastic shifters/derailleurs. A mix of components. Pivo bars, Altenberger brakes, Olmo tires. Ornate looking lugs but stamped. Heavy frame. I transplanted a Fuji cotterless crank and gave it to my father in law.

I searched for info as well and came up blank too. Only thing I can add is that my bike's decals claimed a Belgian origin. Probably about 1975 or so vintage. I posted about the bike whjen I was building it up but noone had any info to offer then. Maybe something this time?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Shimano Selecta B-1 posted by: Gralyn on 4/21/2003 at 2:09:51 AM
I picked up a Motobecane recently - It's difficult to make out the script - but it looks like Nomade Spirit, or Nomade Sprint. Anyway, it has a Shimano Selecta B-1 crank set. It's different from anything I have. The cranks are bolted on with allen bolts. The spindles are keyed...not keyed...they look kind of like sprockets - where the crank and crank arm mate. The only thing....the left crank has been replaced. I may be interested to find an original crank....but...I have never seen one before. Has anyone every heard of this - or seen one? Also, the chain rings are like placed on...then rotated to lock into place - then held in place with a screw. It's like nothing I have ever seen. Anyone know of these?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Shimano Selecta B-1 posted by Tom on 4/22/2003 at 3:35:38 PM
I found references to this crank in an some 1979 issues of Bicycling. New that year, it appears to have been intended for $150-$200 bicycles. The crank and bottom bracket spindle employed an eight sided spline(Octa Joint in Shimano speak), with a single allen key removal. This appears to be the fore runner of the current Shimano & ISIS splined cranksets. A small picture in one issue shows the crank spider separate from the arm, implying that they were both splined. It was also used on some J.C. Penney models, so keep an eye out at those garage sales. Good luck!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Shimano Selecta B-1 posted by Gralyn on 4/22/2003 at 6:53:34 PM
The Crank arm is indeed separate from the spider - both are splined. You take out the allen bolt, then the crank arm comes off, then the chainring / spider assembly. It looks to take the individual chain rings off - you remove a small screw - then rotate the chain ring - to where these notches line-up - then remove them. Yes, the left crank arm must have broken and was replaced. I may spot one - but I have never seen one before.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Shimano Selecta B-1 posted by Tom on 4/23/2003 at 6:41:10 PM
Delving deeper in my stash of old bicycling magazines, I have discovered more info on the Selecta crankset. The crankset was designed to be used in conjunction with the Atus "Centeron" rear derailleur and shifters The Centeron system was a development of the infamous Positron system, Shimano's first indexed shifting system.

Reportedly, the crankset had two sizes of spiders. The "A" spider accepted optional chainguards, while the "B" spider had a built-in chainguard. One spider accepted 39-42/52 tooth chainwheels, while the other accepted 34-36/48 tooth chainwheels. Chainwheels were availble only in steel and all the pictures I've seen show them blackened. As you stated, the spiders use a tongue and groove system to attach the chainrings, while a single screw positions and locks them in place. This system reduced chainwheel machining and mounting hardware, thus lowering the production cost.

In case you have not delved into the bottom bracket yet, it is very similar to those used with one piece cranks. Concave cups act as inner bearing races. The caged bearings fit ouside the cups. The whole assembly is adjusted and secured by two locknuts on the non-drive (left) side. The reasoning behind the splined axle was to ensure a correct chainline. With a tapered spindle, the chainline moves incrementally inward each time a crankarm is re-assembled.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Shimano Selecta B-1 posted by JONathan on 4/23/2003 at 8:24:27 PM
Ahhh! The experts were driven to post on this one. Now, I can try to figure out the "Positron" systems on my two 1977 Suburbans. I found zero in any books. Thanks for posting. JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Shimano Selecta B-1 posted by Dave on 4/24/2003 at 4:26:00 PM
Jonathan, I had a "Positron" system on a $70 Sears Freespirit that was a commuter bike I rode 20 years ago until I ran into a car door on my way to work,taking out the downtube in the process,(I just got a cut on the back of my hand).Probably just as well,I understand you cannot find the solid wire rear shift cable anymore.Sheldon Brown had a lot of good info on this system @www.harriscyclery.com.My friend Ed. K. has a "85 Suburban w/Positron and the Front Freewheel system also.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Shimano Selecta B-1 posted by JONathan on 4/24/2003 at 6:00:18 PM
Thanks, Dave. We have two '77 Suburbans (his & her frames) which are big, bold, beautiful bikes with everything on 'em. Brand spanking new looking. The little booklet was attached to the rear rack of mine. They were not ridden. Sat in a garage for 25 years! I picked them up for about $100 a couple years back. It wasn't until after I got home and had unloaded them when I noticed the "Positron" system. It was all new to me. I think it's a great concept, especially for city rides. My wife really balked at the lady's version fue to its intimidating mass, I suppose. She will stick with her '65 Raleigh "sports", but I want to run that big ole "Suburban" just for kicks. I think with all the externals (bell, too) that it tips the scale at 50#! I was amazed how well the positron shifts. I guess it was good thing that started off in the wrong place. Glad you escaped with just a scratch. I saw a guy smash into a door flung open on him (people DON'T look) and he disappeared from my view. He'd gone over the door and discovered the pavement. The newer cars have the raised headrests which fools me, because I can't see if it's "live" or empty, so I slow down. What's really wierd, is when a driver approaches their car door, looks back and sees you coming and opens the door ANYWAY. Pick your routes! CheereO, JONathan

AGE / VALUE:   drysdale cycles posted by: mike on 4/21/2003 at 12:48:21 AM
Does anyone know where I can find info on Alvin Drysdale. The only thing i can find is at classic rendezevous and is very short and not sweet. The reason i want to know is that I have a sweet early forties track bike in beutiful condition and just cant find any other info . Please help.
Also, this site has an Acton po box for the address, im in acton now fer what thats worth,and maybe ill see you at Lars Anderson on the 29th. im the tall kid wth the black drysdale..........andits not for sale!but if it was how much would you pay? Later, -mike

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   drysdale cycles posted by Warren on 4/21/2003 at 1:36:37 PM
Go to http://phred.org/pipermail/classicrendezvous and do a search of the CR archives. There has been quite a bit of discussion on Drysdales. You have a nice american bike. I think he used to make custom track bikes somewhere on the eastern seaboard (Long Island...maybe Boston?) and his bikes are desireable. I'm sure you will find out lots at the Lars show.

AGE / VALUE:   drysdale cycles posted by: mike on 4/21/2003 at 12:48:21 AM
Does anyone know where I can find info on Alvin Drysdale. The only thing i can find is at classic rendezevous and is very short and not sweet. The reason i want to know is that I have a sweet early forties track bike in beutiful condition and just cant find any other info . Please help.
Also, this site has an Acton po box for the address, im in acton now fer what thats worth,and maybe ill see you at Lars Anderson on the 29th. im the tall kid wth the black drysdale..........andits not for sale!but if it was how much would you pay? Later, -mike

AGE / VALUE:   Maruishi Excellence 12 Spd posted by: Robert on 4/20/2003 at 5:03:56 PM
Okay I posted a question back on 4/3/03 about this bike, and whether or not it was worth the $ 60.00 asking price. I'm just looking for a decent rider. Here is some info about this bike.

Frame: Ishiwata Cr Mo
Butted & Plain Tubes, HT Forks & Stays
Nitto gooseneck w/ Tange headset
Componants: All Shimano 600
Brake set up: Dia-compe 500
Rims: Araya 700c

Thanks for looking. Robert

      Maruishi Excellence 12 Spd posted by John E on 4/20/2003 at 9:49:33 PM
If it fits you well, and if it is in good condition, go for it. However, be prepared to spend money on tyres, tubes, brake pads, cables, possibly a chain, and bearing overhauls. It sounds like a typical mid-grade Japanese bike; nothing great or collectible, but probably quite serviceable. The mostly-ISO diameters and thread pitches are a major advantage over vintage bikes from continental Europe.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Maruishi Excellence 12 Spd posted by Oscar on 4/21/2003 at 3:51:00 AM
Everything you described from the tubing to the componentry is quality. As long as the bike fits you, $60 for the bike and $40 for rubber and pads is a good deal.

AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Sport posted by: John on 4/20/2003 at 12:16:44 AM
Picked up a near mint Peugeot "Sport" at a yard sale today.
Has Simplex shifter, Shamano SIS rear derailer, Simplex front derailer, Weinman Brake Levers, Peugeot center pull calipers, rear carrier, front/rear generator operated lights, front/rear lightweight chrome fenders,and marking Peugeot 103 on the frame. Looks like this one is for touring. Anybody give me an idea of age/value on this piece? Thanks/ John

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Sport posted by Warren on 4/20/2003 at 12:12:50 PM
That sounds like an entry level touring model from the 80's...the equivalent to the U0-18 of the 70's. Standard gaspipe frame with peugeot branded/weinman made parts. Probably has the peugeot crankset as well? Not a valuable bike but mint condition is hard to pass up...especially at yard sale prices. I find the accessories alone are usually worth the price of these bikes...the retro racks are cool and the fenders would be very expensive to purchase. I would have no qualms about transfering these patrts to a all-weather commuter even if this is sacrelige to purists. I would lose the SIS derailleur as quick as you can say "merde!"

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Sport posted by Warren on 4/20/2003 at 12:25:27 PM
That should say gaspipe/carbolite frame...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Sport posted by luke on 4/20/2003 at 10:44:45 PM

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Sport posted by LUKE on 4/20/2003 at 11:01:52 PM

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Sport posted by John on 4/21/2003 at 3:26:44 AM
Thanks for the info gentlemen. Just out of curiosity, does anybody know of a serial number chart so I can determine what year it was made? I was surprised how heavy it is....seems about the same weight as my Varsity(which qualifies as a light amored vehicle.

     Peugeot Sport posted by John E on 4/21/2003 at 2:37:59 PM
Yes, there is nothing "light" about Carbolite tubing. The last time I bought an early 1980s Carbolite Peugeot, for $3 at a yard sale, I scrapped the frame and salvaged the components. An early 1970s UO-8 is a far better ride.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   le tour chain posted by: luke on 4/19/2003 at 10:00:52 PM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   le tour chain posted by Wings on 4/20/2003 at 1:00:47 AM
Luke -- I am glad you were able to fix it! Cool!
Happy Easter!

AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer/London Flyer info posted by: Cecelia on 4/19/2003 at 6:07:22 PM
Question..I recently purchased a Western Flyer import?, it says London Flyer and western Flyer throughout the bike. There is a worn decal that says Genuine English lightweight. the hub says 63, This is a boys style three speed, with both hand-front breaks as well as kick-back breaks. the serial number is 1A2906B. this bike has an electric front lamp. Could any give me any information on this bike or the lamp, I am completly perplexed about the lamp, it appears to be a very simple electrical mechanism, yet I can not figure out where the power supply would come from. it has on on/off knob, as well as two light bulbs in the lens, and on spare safely tucked inside. I am also interested in the approximate value of this bike. but will settle for any help you can provide. I love this bike and am very excited about riding it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer/London Flyer info posted by Oscar on 4/19/2003 at 6:34:29 PM
I've seen a London Flyer before, in a low-end 10-speed model. Your LF sounds neat, with the three-speed coaster hub. I wonder if your headlight is powered off the front hub generator. See if you have wires traveling to the front hub. (If this is a Dynohub, the hub itself is quite large.) I have no idea of value, but it is certainly an usual find.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer/London Flyer info posted by Stacey on 4/19/2003 at 8:19:22 PM
Quite possible that your 'London Flyer' is a rebadged Phillips. There was discussion in the English board about 'Royal' & 'RollFast' bikes of the same description. The 'Royal' I have is identical to a same era (mid 50's) Phillips. Yet the bike carries a Royal headbadge and some frame decals stating it was made fdor 'RollFast' of NY.

If you could send some pix... primarily of the fork crown, head tube & lug area and the seat stay, seat tube cluster I could compare and confirm.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer/London Flyer info posted by sam on 4/19/2003 at 11:56:38 PM
Most likely powered by a small bottle gen. that would have rubbed against the tyre.If missing you might try this site or ebay for replacement--sam

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer/London Flyer info posted by DannyJoe on 4/20/2003 at 2:13:04 AM
I own a '63 Western Flyer 3speed with the "Genuine English Lightweight" decal on the seattube, and Western Flyer on the downtube. The fender's were a little rough but luckly I picked up a '73 woman's Raliegh Sport and did a fender swap, it's a joy to ride. Mine is without light's so I'm unable to help you there, I bought the '63 for .50 cent and the '73 for $7.50. both were the same copper/brown color, a nice part's match bike for under $10.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer/London Flyer info posted by DannyJoe on 4/20/2003 at 2:20:28 AM
I forgot to mention that I was told my '63 WF was built by Raliegh.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer/London Flyer info posted by David on 4/20/2003 at 3:05:19 AM
Western Flyer was a house brand of the Western Auto chain of auto parts and accessories stores (and other stuff; I remember buying a fishing rod at the 7 Corners store in probably 1957). I think they're out of business now. Like everyone else, they arranged for OEMs to make products branded for them; like Raleigh, f'rinstance.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer/London Flyer info posted by DannyJoe on 4/20/2003 at 3:22:18 PM
There still are a couple of independently owned Western Auto store's around, one just 45 mile's from my home. I was there last summer and picked up some remaining bicycle part's they had left stashed in the corner of the store with faded and falling off pricetag's. They even had a couple of low-end MTB's with the Western Flyer brand name. I hope to return soon and pick up the 26in. crankarm's and Wald basket's they had left.

FOR SALE:   Miyata 914 Road Bike posted by: Gary M on 4/19/2003 at 8:06:10 AM
Excellent 21in 14sp Miyata road bike. Alloy frame and nice components. New tires and tubes, completely overhauled and abandonded for the bill. VGC. correct. $125 Must pick up in Michigan. lots of othe bikes as well, sorry not shipping whole bikes anymore, always a hassle.

AGE / VALUE:   Need Advice posted by: Jeff on 4/19/2003 at 4:56:54 AM
Hi to all that can help!!
A few years ago, I was the recipiant of an old bicycle that belonged to my step father. It was his as a child, and didn't want it anymore. Anyway, I would like to know how / where I could get information on the value. It is certainly a vintage. It is a Schwinn, small boys bike, curved fenders, hard tires, white rims. The name plate on the front is gone. It has all the original parts, including an old MINN license plate, circa 1950. It is in fair condition, needed a good restoration. Any idea as to how to place a value? I may sell....

Thanks for any help...


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Advice posted by jeff on 4/19/2003 at 11:58:55 PM
OK.. I found a serial #, but I'm not sure it is a Schwinn. Does this SN make sense to anyone as to manufacture?
As it appears on bottom
MCD 502



   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Advice posted by Wings on 4/20/2003 at 1:08:46 AM
I don't recognize it as a Schwinn # because it does not start with a letter.
Perhaps we will get more feedback on this.

What size bike is this?
Please list the size of the wheels. I have only seen hard rubber on kids size wheels. 12 inch and 16 inch wheels. I have seen Schwinns with the hard rubber in that size.

Describing the bike more would also help.
Schwinn kid bikes usually have a chain ring with holes in it (I am guessing about one inch diameter). Does the seat have a name on it? Describe how the tubes come together -- do they have sharp angles or are they very smooth and curved where they meet -- this is more apt to be a Schwinn if they are smooth. I think there is one kids bike that is differrent than that.

Is there a badge on the front or two screw holes for a badge?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Advice posted by jeff on 4/20/2003 at 1:53:59 AM
Thanks for the reply!

Not being a bike expert (sorry!), I'll do my best at describing some details. I checked the seat and couldn't find a name. Nor could I find a chain ring (Not totally sure what that is!). The tires are 16 in diameter. Definatly a kids bike. As for the badge on the front, it is gone but was secured with 2 rivets, top and bottom, and appeared to be an oval shape badge. As for the tubes, they appear to be smooth as they meet. Other things, it has full fender guards, a chain guard, black pedals. The seat has the two springs underneath, and is beige in color. I'm going to try to get a good picture soon.....Thanks for any help! ! !


   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Advice posted by Wings on 4/20/2003 at 5:44:03 AM
Oval badge indicates possible Schwinn. The badge rivets should be 6.5centimeters apart (approx.).

The Chain ring is the round disc that the chain fits around at the pedal location. With 16 inch wheels I think it could be a Schwinn PIXIE. The Chain Ring has no holes in it since it is a solid chrome circle with teeth for the chain to fit on.

The PIXIE has two bars running side by side on the top where the legs would straddle. It also has one curved bar going down to the chain ring area (Bottom Bracket) where the pedals are. The two narrow side by side bars are a good indicator it is a PIXIE.

Sometimes a PIXIE will show up on EBAY (Picture).

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Advice posted by Wings on 4/20/2003 at 5:53:14 AM
Go to EBAY and do a basic search for: "schwinn pixie".
They have five listings showing three varieties (Essentially two styles).
Let us know if that is it!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Advice posted by Jeff on 4/20/2003 at 6:17:22 AM
Hello Again....

Well, the Chain ring does have holes in it, possibly replaced at one time. As for the double bars, this bike only has a single bar. I looked on E-Bay, and the 4th listing is the closest. The seat and fender guards are similar, but the frame isn't quite the same. The rivits on the front are approx 6.5 cm apart.

Most likely a Pixie, but not exactly like the ones on E-Bay. Are there others that are close, with the hard rubber tires?


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Advice posted by Wings on 4/20/2003 at 7:25:09 AM
Go back to Ebay and do the search: "schwinn pixie" again.
Then on the left side click on "completed items". That will give you 26 items to look at.

Describe the holes in the Chain Ring. If they are circle (about one inch diameter) that is still a Schwinn Chain Ring. If it is another type of design somebody would know the bike manufacturer.
What about the brake? Give the name on the brake arm. Bendix? If it has an American Brake name that would narrow it down.

Kids bikes are a little harder to track down and Ebay may be a good place to try to what it is. Other manufacturers would be "Huffy", "Western Flyer", "J.C. Higgins" ...

It is now sleep time!!!!

AGE / VALUE:   varsity decals posted by: freddie on 4/19/2003 at 1:22:01 AM
I know this question has been asked many times befor. Where can I find schwinn varsity decals? They told me a menory lane they must get 50 calls a day looking for them With as much interest as there is in this bike somebody must be making them.Any body have any leads? They don't have them at maple island either. Thanks. Freddie

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   varsity decals posted by Eric Amlie on 4/19/2003 at 5:50:18 PM
There is a seller on ebay, zagar-axe, who sells the older down tube ones. He doesn't have any for sale right now, but periodically puts them up. Keep an eye on ebay with a seller search for them.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Teledyne Titan 1970's posted by: Mz Lash La Rue on 4/19/2003 at 12:07:11 AM
I bought this Teledyne Titan (titanium) frame from a fellow in Wisconsin who won two national road races on this frame. Then I fixed it up with Campy breaks, crank, derellier (sp?), and Suntour shifters and stem. I rode it for many years and loved it's lightweight speed. Now it's just sitting in my basement. I know it's worth something but have no idea what or where to look to find out. Any thoughts about where I should begin or where the best place to sell would be? Thanks. Lash

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Teledyne Titan 1970's posted by Warren on 4/19/2003 at 2:30:21 AM
Go to http://www.sheldonbrown.com/vrbn-o-z.html for Sheldon's pricing guide. In very good condition and an NR group, he suggest $900 wouldn't be out of line.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Teledyne Titan 1970's posted by Dave on 4/21/2003 at 5:54:42 PM
www.firstflightbikes.com recently sold one for $1000,you may still be able to view it under the used bike section.