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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Is this a good one? posted by: John on 4/29/2003 at 12:25:47 AM
Can you tell me anything about this one: Raleigh Grand Sports, Weinman Vainqueur 999 Calipers, Brooks leather saddle, Normandy alloy wheels, Stronglight(France)Chainring, Simplex shifters, aluminum "ride upright" handlebars with ribbed Raleigh grips, decal in triangle at base of seat tube reads, "Carlton Race Approved Workshop England", top of seat tube decal is messed up but I can read, "Guaranteed Built With Reynolds 5_ _ Butted Tube", fork has remains of decal that reads something like, "Reynold Forks". I doubt if bike weights more than 20 lbs. Definitly not aluminum. Awful dirty and needs to be cleaned up, but frame looks good and wheels run almost true. With a little bearing and elbow grease, and sweat equity, this could be a cool ride.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a good one? posted by Lenny on 4/29/2003 at 11:33:25 PM
Hello John,

As Steve mentions, you have a very nice bike. I have one of these ('73 model) and it is my favorite bike for longer rides, with very "gentle" geometry. It has a very long wheelbase (OK, not as long as a Raleigh roadster), a bit longer than that of the Super Course (of the same year). Enjoy!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a good one? posted by John on 4/30/2003 at 1:49:19 AM
Hey everybody...thanks for the info. I've been fixing up lightweights and selling them for the past few years but I never knew exactly what I had other than they were fun to ride. I get a perverse sort of pleasure from going on a 35 mile ride on a 30 year old bike that I got out of the trash and rebuilt from the frame up. Long live Old Roads!!!!

   Definitely not bad posted by Walter on 4/29/2003 at 12:59:06 AM
Probably weighs a bit more than 20lb but a reasonably light ride. Your decal is for Reynolds 531 tubing. Are the remnants of the numbers printed diagonally across the decal? Sounds like you have Reynolds forks too.

Stronglight cranks are of pretty decent quality. Normandy hubs were common on a lot of Euro bikes when the maker didn't want to spec Campy. Simplex derailleurs can be quite nice or very ordinary. Do they have plastic parts? Those Weinmann brakes appeared on bikes of all sorts of quality and price and were, argubly, one of the better centerpulls made. I womder if the bars are original?

Others around here know the Raleigh lineup better than I and can tell you where it fit in their lineup and more about its vintage. Overall it's a solid Boom bike that I'd guess is about mid70s vintage maybe a bit earlier. Later than that and I'd expect to see some Asian components. Clean/lube/adjust and you'll have a nice ride.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a good one? posted by John on 4/29/2003 at 1:15:02 AM
Walter:Yeah the numbers are diagonal. I was also curious about that Carlton Race decal. Anybody know what that means? As to the weight, I just came back from a ride on the local rail trail on my Varsity complete with Newsboy front Wire Basket holding 15 pounds of small dog, so the Ralgeigh feels like it would float away if I didn't sit on it! John

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a good one? posted by Tom on 4/29/2003 at 1:59:33 AM
Carlton was a well respected British racing frameshop that had been around since at least the 1930's. In the early 60's they were purchased by Raleigh to manufacture custom and high end frames, and to act as the Raleigh Research & Development department. Basically, they were the race department. They also still marketed Carlton frames under Raleigh's ownership. Eventually, in 1974, they moved into a new Raleigh factory. I always considered the "Carlton approved" stickers to be a marketing ploy to cash in on Carlton's name and reputation. However, Raleigh would have built production frames using processes and materials intially devweloped and approved by Carlton, so it can be viewed as a factual statement.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a good one? posted by Tom on 4/29/2003 at 2:21:48 AM
More info. Walter appears to be correct regarding the age. One of my 1973 magazines has a couple paragraphs, specs and a picture of a Gran Sport. Based on the picture, the original handlebars were randonneur style drop bars. It is interesting that the decal is the diagonal version, because it was used for butted tubes, forks & stays. My article notes that the stays are not 531, so your model may be a year or two earlier. I say earlier, because as a model ages, they usually are looking for ways to offset inflation and decrease costs, which could be done by downgrading the stays from 531 tubing. All other mentioned equipment appears to be original. By the way, the advertised weight was 26-27 lbs (sorry) and MSR was $215.00 U.S. I hope this helps.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a good one? posted by Schwinnderella on 4/29/2003 at 2:16:06 PM
Don't forget http://retroraleighs.com/gran-sport.html

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Is this a good one? posted by steve on 4/29/2003 at 8:05:50 PM
In the 1973 catalog, the Gran Sport seems to be the touring/clincher equivalent to the racing/sew-up Competition. Component specifications I would take with a grain of salt; this was the bike boom and momentary shortages were likely. Thus the ca. 1973 Gran Sport that I recently bought on eBay as frame, most components, and no wheels has a Nervar instead of a Stronglight crank and plain rear dropouts instead of the ones with a (Simplex) derailleur boss shown in the catalog. According to Frank Berto's "The Dancing Chain", Simplex and Huret couldn't agree on a standard derailleur mounting screw, so plain ones with a derailleur mounting plate was likely a common substitution.
The upright bars might be original, even though they don't fit the specification. The buyer could well have had the bike set up that way to suit their personal taste. I had a new LTD-3 fitted with drop bars in '75 for that reason. As for material, I'd be inclined to go along with full-531. Mine has a much different ride - lighter and more resilient - than a Super Course of nearly identical dimensions. Definitely a good one!

AGE / VALUE:   NSU posted by: Sarah on 4/28/2003 at 7:45:05 PM
I know nothing about bicycles...my uncle gave me a bike to use because my mountian bike killed my back, just curious what age/value is. I tried to look up the serial # on the web but can't find anything listed. All I have found on web is info about NSU motorcycles. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   NSU posted by JONathan on 4/28/2003 at 9:24:11 PM
Try using the bicycle's name/make for a search or post again with that info. Someone is going to know about it here, if anywhere. Got to have the maker or at least a model. Look on the frame for decals that give a name or model. Check in front of the handlebars for a "badge" that identifies the make. Good luck.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   NSU posted by JONathan on 4/28/2003 at 9:36:24 PM
That's NSU bicycle? Sorry. OK, they made bicycles and of course motorcycles. Their serial numbers are straight forward. I found the site, but you can just type in "NSU bicycles" for Google search. It's one the first page of results. Real interesting bicycle and history. When did he get it? It might be very unusual (collectible).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   NSU posted by Sarah on 4/28/2003 at 9:42:27 PM
The make is NSU, (which is noted on several different places) I'm thinking the model may be "Meisje" because that is the only other "logo" item on the bike. It is a 3 speed (the gear says Torpedo), it also has front + rear fenders, chain guard, head light (which I have no clue how to even turn on)and a shelf like thing above the rear tire for storage I suppose! The front rim says Schurmann (made in W. Germany), Rim 1 (L) 035 28 x 1 5/8. The S/N is: 03/ followed by 6 numbers, then the letter A. The s/n was located on the front side of the seat post.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   NSU posted by JONathan on 4/29/2003 at 2:29:41 AM
Well, it's not a bike-boom bicycle, so you are looking at a cool bike. They changed the numbers around a couple times. The company stopped bikes in the early '60's. The Torpedo is arguably the best made multispeed hub in its earlier versions. Does it have a red or a blue shifter? Guys (and gals, I suppose) would buy cheap bikes just to get the Torpedo hub! I don't know how the ride would be much easier on your back than a well suited MTB. I would fix it up as a show piece. I owned an early Zundapp (MC) which was a major competitor for NSU, and it was incredibly reliable (immer zuverlasig). I couldn't get parts, so I gave it away to a collector..after putting about 30K miles on it, and it was on its second spin on the odometer. If NSU made anything close to that quality I'd say you have a well made bike and maybe a show piece. Some of their later bikes were from Asian companies, but if you have pre-1960, I'd guess it's the real thing.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   NSU posted by JONathan on 4/29/2003 at 2:36:26 AM
Not Dutch ain't so good, but I think "meisje" is Dutch for "girl". Does that fit?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   NSU posted by JONathan on 4/29/2003 at 2:38:49 AM
Why not post on the "roadster" page? They may help a lot more.

AGE / VALUE:   Anyone have any idea how I might date a Bianchi Campione del Mondo? posted by: JoeG on 4/28/2003 at 5:55:23 AM
Greetings! I have an old, black, Bianchi Campione del Mondo twelve speed with a combo of original Campy SR, NR and GS components, and I’ve been trying to get an exact date on the frame’s age for quite some time with no luck. The frame has a four number serial number on one side of the top of the seat tube, with the last two digits being “80” (possibly meaning 1980?) The other side of the seat tube displays “1-N”. The bike uses friction down tube shifters, and my best guess would be early 1980’s. but I was just wondering if there was any way to nail down an exact date.
Thanks very much in advance for your help!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Anyone have any idea how I might date a Bianchi Campione del Mondo? posted by Dave on 4/28/2003 at 1:44:06 PM
Older Campy rear deraillers sometimes have a PAT.## with ## being the date of manufacture.

    date a Bianchi Campione del Mondo? posted by John E on 4/28/2003 at 3:31:42 PM
My 1982 (1981?) Bianchi Campione d'Italia has a similar serial number, with "1M" and a 4-digit number beginning with "9." My rear derailleur says "Pat. 80." I have yet to find anyone who can make sense out of Bianchi S/Ns, but my unusual metallic brown / charcoal frame colour helped one of my friends narrow down the year of manufacture. I would GUESS that my "1M xxxx" serial number predates your "1N xxxx" slightly.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Anyone have any idea how I might date a Bianchi Campione del Mondo? posted by Joe on 4/29/2003 at 10:17:57 PM
Thanks very much for the help, guys!

MISC:   FS ain't new posted by: JONathan on 4/28/2003 at 4:18:19 AM
I have a book with a full suspension bike from 1900 that was built at Ciclo Veronese in Milan. It has a leaf spring for the seat-tube shock absorber and a clever compound spring shocks on the forks. It had solid tires with cutouts to reduce weight and add a little give. Looks a lot like a roadster. Seems that the more I learn, the more that I see that all the "new" stuff isn't new unless you count grotesque as "new".

   RE:MISC:   FS ain't new posted by sam on 4/28/2003 at 4:35:01 AM
Pierce and others did use full suspension , pre 1900.Also the Diferenal and drive shaft were invented for the bicycle/tricycle not the auto.

   RE:RE:MISC:   FS ain't new posted by JONathan on 4/28/2003 at 3:55:29 PM
Ample opportunities to benefit from offroad designs back then. Leonardo Da Vinci had it right in 1482 when he invented the chain drive. The print quality of pictures in this book are superb. I can use a lupe to study the bikes. Title: "Bicycles" by Feremo Galbiati & Nino Ciravegna; 1994; Chronicle Books, San Francisco, Ca. USA.
There's a "Gran Tourismo" built by Officine Sintesi of Turin, 1924. It has leaf springs cantilevered out (much like a FS) with a seat mounted on the end of the boom. Probably when into disfavor after a few guys were catapulted 20 yards after a collision. A 1938 BSA with under-chainstay caliper brake and a "regulator wheel" for steering (wahtever that is). The most interesting is a beautiful pre-WWII Bianchi with rod-actuated brakes housed inside the frame tubes! Imagine working on that one. Basically all those bikes that slipped through the cracks. Of particular interest is the Bianchi equipped with an 8-speed gearbox integral with the BB.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   FS ain't new posted by sam on 4/28/2003 at 4:55:06 PM
I got that book.Great book.Now out of print and selling for $35 in antique book stores.Look for it in used book stores--got my copy for $4. A must have for those who like Military bikes or old roadester bikes.---sam

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   FS ain't new posted by JONathan on 4/28/2003 at 6:21:46 PM
Sam, yes indeed. Next time I make it Italy, I'm headed for the Galbiati Museum in Brugherio, Italy. Spelling error: Fermo Galbiati (not Feremo). Sorry. I picked mine up at a used book store for $6.95 about 3 years ago. Yes, the military specimens are quite cleverly built and sturdy lookin'. Lean bikes, not big bozo-looking puffed up frames we see in off-road bikes. Like a coyote compared to a ST. Bernard.

   BB gearbox posted by John E on 4/28/2003 at 7:53:03 PM
Another interesting bicycle is the 1930 German Adler ("Eagle"), with an automobile-style 3-speed sliding-gear transmission built into the BB shell.

Also fascinating is a 1930s Terrot in Pryor Dodge's collection -- the cranks move up and down, and the 10-speed transmission is controlled by sliding the actuator rods up and down the lengths of the cranks.

   RE:BB gearbox posted by JONathan on 4/28/2003 at 9:15:27 PM
Very interesting, John E. and Sam. My correction: It was Colnago, in concert with Ferrari Engineering that came up with the 8 speed gear box. The geras are in an oil bath inside Al housing. How about the Bayliss, Thomas & Co. 1889 "Excelsior" with pedal adjustmenets into slots on the crank arms for gearing? That's a direct-drive transmission! The Oakland Museum (Ca.) had an Elgin bike from I think 1938, with a differential drive designed by GM. Seems they didn't take very well because of the cost. I believe the display bike was one of the prototypes. The Pryor Dodge collection was well represented. Amazing, amazing...amazing. I hope to get his book before they get hard to find. I'm headin' for the trails. Good rides. JONathan

AGE / VALUE:   An Old Gitane Bike posted by: Mike Hvizdak on 4/27/2003 at 10:14:38 PM
Hi, today I was wondering about an old Gitane bicycle that is hanging in my dads garage. My dad said he used it in college which was in the 1970's. Its a white, 10 speed, lightwieght, Gitane road bike from the 1970's. I was wondering if this is a good bike and how much this could be worth.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   An Old Gitane Bike posted by Tom on 4/28/2003 at 12:32:18 AM
Mike, Gitane was a very popular French bicyle in the 1970's. The US distibutor was Mel Pinto, while the Canadian bicyclces were distibuted via Shields, if I recall correctly. Their range of models was extensive and most of them were available in white, so we need some more info to identify the model and original price. See if there is a tubing sticker of the frame (usually the seatpost)and post what it says. What are the brands/identifying marks on the crankset (also is it steel or aluminum), derailleurs and brakes? Current value will depend factors such as the market, rarity, originality, condition, and size.

AGE / VALUE:   INFO ON SWAP MEET posted by: Kevin K on 4/27/2003 at 3:46:46 PM
Hi. If you like balloon tire bikes or muscle bikes, Memory Lane had plenty of both. This year however almost zero lightweight items. Guys would say Oh, I throw that stuff away. Some are starting to keep the high end items they locate but never bring it along. Anyone here go to Ann Arbor today? How was it? Thanks, Kevin

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   INFO ON SWAP MEET posted by Kevin K on 4/30/2003 at 9:12:49 PM
Hi. The best local " swap meets " for lightweights are garage sales. This weekend in a local burg the entire town is one huge G sale. It is where I picked up my Lotus for $25. Probally 50 plus lightweights in town plus 100's of others. Most bikes are of so so quality. Most bikes are so over priced it's hard not to laugh. But cash talks. So we will see. As for regular swap meets with a real showing of vintage lightweights, not here. I wish though. Kevin K

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   INFO ON SWAP MEET posted by joebiker on 4/29/2003 at 6:21:50 PM
Ann Arbor was a nice show, but very few lightweights. There was one dealer with about 10 lightweight bikes but seemed to be getting very little interest from buyers. I also saw two other dealers that each had a single Paramount. There was a lot of interest in the Paramounts. Scwhinns of all flavors seemed to dominate the show.

Are there any swap meets in the midwest with a reasonable showing of lightweights?

AGE / VALUE:   nervex track bike posted by: Joel on 4/27/2003 at 2:47:11 PM
I have a track frame with the name Nervex and a long
serial number stamped on the bottom bracket. The lugs are very fancy and just looking at style of this frame
I got a feeling its pretty old. Does anyone have an idea what I got? thanks Joel

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   nervex track bike posted by Tom on 4/27/2003 at 6:49:38 PM
Nervex was a French manufacturer of lugs, bottom brackets and fork crowns. They had an extensive line and some models were very ornate, providing a custom appearance, while saving the framebuilder from manually cutting and filing the lugs. To my knowledge, Nervex never made frames, only supplying parts to framebuilders. It would be improbable to date the frame by the lug style, as Nervex was in business for decades. (Anybody know if they are still around?) However if you post the Serial Number, somebody may be identify the manufacturer and year.

MISC:   Favorit posted by: Rob on 4/27/2003 at 5:49:07 AM
Saw an unusual bike at the thrift shop tonight...I have heard of the brand before...'Favorit', but don't know much about them except I think they're low end...It's French and all the components seem to be branded Favorit. It has a single crankring and a three-cog freewheel...the derailleur looks kind of interesting...the handlebars are alloy...mixte frame.

Is there much interest in such a bike or any of the components? Oh...the price...$12.99CDN(about $9.00US).

   RE:MISC:   Favorit posted by JONathan on 4/27/2003 at 7:43:01 AM
Rob, it's made in Czech Rep. and is a solid bike for commute. Unusual find.

   RE:MISC:   Favorit posted by Ian on 4/27/2003 at 8:27:12 AM
I have some Favorit coaster brake single speed rear hubs for roadsters which seem to be an exact copy of the English Perry coaster hub. Other Favorit bits I have seen seem also to be copies but well engineered. Should be a relianble cheap ride. Ian.

   RE:MISC:   Favorit posted by Rob on 4/28/2003 at 6:13:45 PM
Ah, so it's a Czech bike...I had heard of the brand before and remember seeing a rather primitive-looking Favorit '10-speed' a few years ago, but I assumed it was French...maybe, I'll go get this one for the curiosity factor...if it's still there. Could it be one of those things that beneath a rather drab, dull external appearance, it turns out to be very well built and designed???

AGE / VALUE:   Bridgestone Kabuki on the Bay posted by: Warren on 4/27/2003 at 12:22:30 AM

A sweet bike for someone wanting a great ride...hopefully it will not go too high


VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Indian scout bicycle posted by: pete on 4/26/2003 at 8:50:00 PM
Help! I found this Indian scout bicycle hanging in a garage. The owner told me he got it for his 17th birthday. the A/S 3 speed hub is dated 51. Any one know anything about them ? Is there any ties to the Indian motorcycle co. ? Thanks much Pete

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Indian scout bicycle posted by sam on 4/26/2003 at 10:20:37 PM
Very cool bike. And yes they were sold by Indian motorcycle.In 1951 Indian was owned by the Phillips bicycle co. of england.So your bike is a Phillips.Boys bikes(compleat in good shape) carry a good price.Not as high as early Indian bikes but still a keeper!---sam

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Indian scout bicycle posted by Jeff R on 4/27/2003 at 1:06:25 AM
They are nice bikes to ride. I got mine New in 1952 and I am still riding it. It started life with a AW 3speed hub. I installed a FW 4 speed about 5 years ago and also replaced the mattress saddle with a Brooks B33 saddle. It's been ridden in the Acadia National Park in Bar Harbour Maine, the Cape Cod rail trail, and Connecticut rail trails. It always gets a lot of looks and and questions like do you want to sell it or how much? I've been riding it for 50 years. NO I don'nt want to sell it. There is also an Indian Princess ladies model and a Indian Brave which is a 24 inch wheel boys model. They were sold at Indian Motorcycle dealerships here in the states from the late 40's to about 1960. They don't have the value of a Raleigh Clubman, or a Raleigh Record Ace, but they are still collectable and rideable.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Tales of adventure: Not for sale!   posted by Chris on 4/28/2003 at 7:24:44 PM
I'm used to this: " No, I don't want to sell it." I hear that all the time.Usually it's polite and sometimes it has a bit of a bite to it. They have had the cycle for some time and are attached to it. That's cool, you just keep asking other folks and sooner or later you'll find somebody who WILL part with one. Then later on in a different part I see one out at the kerb. One lady ran over the mens model because it had belonged to her ex husband. I did pick up the other one, her ladies frame bike. I was unable to pry a beautiful rod brake Raleigh away from this one fellow who inherited it from a father whom he hated intensely. The thought of slowly destroying the bike was more attractive to him than the green bills I was offering him. It was his way of getting back and no amount of money was gonna rob him of that experience. He was there for tires but I don't think they ever were ridden. I have not yet seen one of those in the that age catagory and condition offered on e- bay. Not yet. I have one that's very close to what I saw that day. The 87 year old woman who snapped at me. "No! it's not for sale!" Yep, people get rude, snappy, and illogical. I remember these unique two women cracking knuckles and lookin at me! All I did was ask if the bikes were for sale.
My favorite was: "He told me to get my hands off of it, so I offered him more money and he took it and guess what I did then, Chris? I ran my hands all over it! He called me and then I did the same. I still have it and the end price was still below what these go for these days. Another time, I left and returned 8 1/2 years later to sweep up and take everything. Sometimes you have to wait it out. A female voice on the phone asks: "Are you the bike fellow?"
Men and Ladies, young and old, rich and poor, they all have told me. No!! Sometimes They ignore you all together. The young lady asks in amazement: You mean you only stoped me to ask about this bike? You're really not hitting on me? I said flatly, "Oh No." You have a Raleigh there and I collect them. She rode off disgusted that was all I wanted to talk about. Another old woman mentioned Mission Oak furniture and I forget if I ever did get the bike! I call up and say, "They said Yes , I need that truck tonight!"
One time I bent down and looked at this bike and all I did was ask if it was for sale. He screamed at me! "Don't go near it!!" It belongs to a lawyer here in town ( or was he a politician?) anyways I was told the fellow was widely hated and feared all over town and he was really upset because he could not get parts for it and he was all bent out of shape over having the bike in his shop needing repair work.He was telling the customer he could not get parts for it and the customer went off on him and he was all shook up. I advised him to throw the customer and his bike out into the street the next time he came in and save himself a stroke. He looked at me flabbergasted and said: "You don't know this customer!" I calmed him down and brought parts in and he fixed it. I asked "What is the deal!?" He told me I was from out of town and I didn't understand. It was like supplying parts and working on Satans bike or Hitler's with the SS standing over you with guns drawn in case you mess up! The man was afraid to touch the bike and I walked him through it even though he already was a bike mechanic. I adjusted the rod gear and he did the rest. The second it was done he called and so sweetly informed him it was done and that he was delivering it himself. The shop didn't deliver as a rule. It was a very freaky, strange day. The man's facial color returned to normal. I bought many marvelous red lined tires and left town and today I forget what shop that was or where I was. Never did learn who the fellow was who inspired so much fear and panic in that shop owner. I saved the day, that's for sure. I have gone all over everywhere in this and heard a lot of No's. One kid said: "My dad toured five states on this thing!" "ARE YOU CRAZY? HE'D KILL ME IF ANYTHING EVER HAPPENED TO IT!"
Still, usually it's just somebody who enjoys the cycle very much and is happy with keeping it.
The vultures have swooped down on me, too. I have had to explain that a wheel or shifter or the whole machine is not for sale. So many times, the old fellow or young goddess is seen and then they wisp away and vanish before your eyes before you can even stop them to ask at all. I caught this one fellow with the Humber and I thought I was gonna have a heart attack and lose him. The mailman on the vintage Solex I hope to chat with him. Guess what he's gonna say?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Tales of adventure: Yes it's for sale, BUT.   posted by Chris on 4/28/2003 at 7:42:31 PM
The times I hear: Yes, or yeah, or, well, Ok.
That's great but it's not always immediate and painless.
I have had to go back and forth and wait until they feel like digging it out.
Yes, but when?
Oh god, you don't want to trade for it do you? I hate the word "trade"
What's best is when they open up eyes wide in glee and ask if I want any more of these. Then they tell me this story about this wonderful old bike they have been saving for somebody who will appreciate it and restore it. Then I get led back to the corner of the garage and there it sits!
Or when you think it's all over and that they don't have anything else. Wrong! He has a brother and he has a bike and here we go again!
Drop those seats back, slide it in, close the trunk. Or snap home the bungee cord and shake the fellow's hand and enjoy the drive home. That's if I don't get lost trying to get home.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Tales of adventure: Yes it's for sale, BUT.   posted by Dave on 4/29/2003 at 3:52:19 PM
Sort of like how I obtained my Mercier.A bike club member had it and was saving it for his grandson who was unfortunatly accidently killed.It was too big for him,he originally gave it to another Bike club member who rode it until the Bottom bracket gave out,then he gave it to me.Kind of like a heirloom of sorts.

AGE / VALUE:   INTERESTING FRAME posted by: Kevin K on 4/26/2003 at 1:51:03 PM
Hi all. I bought a frame this morning that has little info on it as to it's origin. Top tube decal says" GRAN TOURING ". Down tube says" VISCOUNT ". Several decals on the frame state " Hand Crafted in England " . Fillet brazed frame. Forged dropouts. Color ( Baby blue ) and aliminum foil looking decals indicate early to mid 70's bike. Bare frame, no fork. Does anyone know what tubing would have been used in the construction of this frame? 531? 4130?Thanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   INTERESTING FRAME posted by sam on 4/26/2003 at 6:34:50 PM
Kevin K you got a lambert.Well they started as lambert,but Yamaha finaly ended up takin them over(your frame is Yamaha)The interesting part about lambert is the Death fork,made of cast alum.Not sure about replacement parts for head set and BB as lambert made a lot of parts custom to there bikes.Check on this.---sam

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   INTERESTING FRAME posted by Kevin K on 4/26/2003 at 7:08:36 PM
Hi Sam. So tell me more. I'm ok with this frame no matter who made it. It has no fork, no head set. Nothing. It does have a crankset and bottom bracket which I'll look over later. So, as to the frame. Is it at least hand crafted in England as it states and what tubing would it be. 4130 is ok by me. Please tell me all you can. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   INTERESTING FRAME posted by Tom on 4/26/2003 at 8:53:11 PM
The March 1975 issue of Bicycling has a road test of a Viscount. It specifies a "hand brazed, straight gauge chrome molybdenum, 100,000 psi thin-wall steel tubing throughout". Early Lambert ads specified a "Lambert 1027 alloy steel tubing to aircraft specifications" The later Viscount ads do not specify alloy numbers.

After Lambert went into receivership, Trusty Manufacturing Co. (England) took over the tooling and frame manufacture and the name changed to Viscount. As Sam states, Lambert produced a lot of proprietary components, but most of these had disappeared by the time of the name change. Eventually frame manufacture transfered to Japan and Taiwan, but I can't say when. If your frame has a "Handcrafted in England" decal, then I would assume it's a Trusty frame.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   INTERESTING FRAME posted by Kevin K on 4/26/2003 at 9:57:40 PM
Hi Tom. That's what I needed to know. I've been wanting for several years to build up a nice English built frame and use English and French components on it. I also like the fact that it's hand brazed. So after years of kicking about the idea it looks like I'll fianlly get the project off to a good start. By the way a friend has a real Lambert, death fork and all. Picked it up a couple years back for $1 at a garage sale. Thanks all for the tips. Kevin

   Link to bike story posted by sam on 4/26/2003 at 10:24:13 PM

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   INTERESTING FRAME posted by Ian on 4/27/2003 at 8:38:31 AM
I have one of the earlier Lamberts and the headset has been replaced by a Nitto one so probably most common proprietary bits would fit. Mine has also had the "Death Fork" replaced by a steel one of another make so it should not too hard to get yours together. Mine has standard bottom bracket cups and cones but I understand that the Viscounts had a cassette. My info was that Lambert had components made for them by other makers but branded with the Lambert or Viscount names. The brakes appear to be Wienmanns. A nice frame to ride so enjoy. Cheers, Ian.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   INTERESTING FRAME posted by Walter on 4/28/2003 at 1:52:27 AM
I had a riding partner in the late 70s who loved Viscounts. Owned several of them. They were a 22# bike that you could afford at about +/- $500 while Italian steel was $1000+. Good looking bikes as well as I recall. They loved o use the word "aerospace" in their decals.

Not all that long ago I ran across a frameset. Viscount did use a pressed in cassette BB on at least some models and replacement is very chancy. My BB was munched and rendered a decent frame worthless. Sheldon Brown has info on Viscount and mentions the BB situation as well.

Good luck

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Interesting bike posted by: Walter on 4/26/2003 at 1:34:51 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172020159&category=420 is a California Masi sold by CycleArt (no surprise there).

Pretty bike but weird set-up. A flat-lander unless you're pretty strong, and pretty tall too.

Also saw a early 70s Cinelli while poking around eBay. Tall bike that one too. Didn't save the link but a search under Cinelli will find it.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Interesting bike posted by Oscar on 4/27/2003 at 2:16:01 AM
It might have been a time trial bike before the use of aero bars.

      Interesting bike posted by John E on 4/28/2003 at 9:10:36 PM
That one has what appears to have the aluminum Hi-E "death skewer," the early versions of which were subject to snapping (and releasing front wheels) at inopportune times. With that one safety-related substitution, and perhaps some regearing, it should be a nice ride for a tall person.

MISC:   collecting or hording? posted by: JONathan on 4/26/2003 at 6:40:48 AM
A recent post brought to bear the concept of hording as a possible explanation (at least in part) for the relative paucity of LW's in the traditinal outlets. In a general sense what distinguishes "hording" from "collecting". Hording has a negative connotation, as though it is due to some compulsion. Maybe a person was deprived of bicycles as a kid and now they are trying to fulfill the void by rabidly collecting bikes. Maybe greediness. I don't know. Collecting on the other hand, seems to have a positive gloss to it. I think of "spontanaety" versus "implusiveness". If it produces a positive result, it's spontaneous, if it's negative, then impulsive. Isn't hording just collecting with a greater passion? I know I think about it when I see a great ole LW for peanuts and think; "Do I really need this bike"? Then I get it anyway. Is that hording or is it collecting? JONathan
Note: just a break from the technical aspects, sorry.

   RE:MISC:   collecting or hording? posted by Gralyn on 4/26/2003 at 12:29:49 PM
Of course I will put my 2 cents worth on this one:
I think hording would also be gathering numbers of bikes - and never doing anything with them. For me - I'm always keeping my eyes open for something good, something different from anything I already have, for something rare, for something old, etc. There have been several I have spotted - that I didn't really need - but they were so cheap - and I buy it also - most likely for parts, or maybe a re-sell project. Sometimes I spot one that I don't really need, or want - but it may have particular wheels, pedals, bars, etc. that I would like to have - and the price of the entire bike is less than I could individually buy either of the components.
I also enjoy tinkering with them, re-building them, making them look new again (well - not always 'new' - but at least many times better than they did when I got them).
I'm also always looking to find a "better" bike for my main rider - or one that to me rides better. As this happens - the ones that used to be my main riders - will probably be passed on, sold. I'm at the point now - I have several - maybe about 10 - that I will be trying to sell.
I consider myself to be a collector - somewhat - and I often think of how I could possibly "display" my bikes. I don't really have anywhere to do that - but I would like to do that some day. Like, I imagine them parked in somewhat of a show room (not hanging way up high so you have to strain your neck to see them - and not so far up that you can't make out any details). There would be a poster of sorts by each bike - describing it - giving some history of it - and telling something in particular, unique about each one. I suppose that's also why I look for some variety. For example, one varsity is enough. I wouldn't want to have 5 varsities - what would be the point? But I think I should have at least one. But, I would have my eyes out for a better condition varsity than the one I have - the goal would be to have a near mint bike to display - and so, as a better one is found - the average condition one is sold or traded, etc.

   RE:MISC:   collecting or hording? posted by sam on 4/26/2003 at 6:41:47 PM
I think the term Hording should only apply the things people really need or want.Like food in an emergency.Your really not Hording bikes if you get them cheap and most often keepin them from the scrap pile.In this case it's just surplus---sam

   RE:MISC:   collecting or hording? posted by Bryant on 4/26/2003 at 9:43:52 PM
I don't hoard bicycles, I recycle them. Like Gralyn, I'll buy a bike because I haven't worked on that one yet; sometimes because it's a real find, and sometimes just for parts. Sometimes I'll buy a bike with a bent frame knowing very well that I'll be tossing the frame but using the wheels, pedals whatever. In that case I'm probably saving someone from a bad biking experience. I ride the ones that fit, fix up and sell the ones that don't. I enjoy it, keeps me busy, and I feel like I'm doing something constructive. If I can keep one person from buying a Huffy at WalMart, Then I know I'm doing something worthwhile.

   RE:MISC:   collecting or hording? posted by Tom on 4/27/2003 at 3:02:46 AM
It looks like you all are pretty much in agreement. So, it looks like it's up to me to stir up the hornet's nest, but I can't, because I agree with all of you. From my point of view, Sam hit the cotter pin on the head when he stated that there must be a need or value to other people, to consider it hoarding. However, hoarding also implies there is no need or value to the hoarder. The amount of items they have far exceed what they can use or appreciate in the foreseeable future. So, if you ride the bicyles, recycle them or just appreciate them from an engineering or artistic view, then you are not hoarding. However, if they've been locked up in a garage or the basement and haven't seen you or the light of day in a decade ...

   RE:RE:MISC:   collecting or hording? posted by Wings on 4/27/2003 at 5:48:01 AM
Hoard: "A hidden or stored fund or supply guarded for future use; cache; treasure."
Hoarding: "To gather or accumulate a hoard. To accumulate or gather by saving or hiding."

Collect: "1. To bring together in a group; gather; assemble. 2. To accumulate as a hobby or for study."
Synonyms: "gather, collect, assemble, ... accumulate, amass" ...

American Heritage Dictionary

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   collecting or hording? posted by Dave on 4/28/2003 at 1:53:12 PM
I'd like to think of myself as a recycler also.I now have tons of work though, a Coppi that was repainted needs rebuilding,and a old Schwinn World Sport that needs everything but a headset....

      collecting or hording posted by John E on 4/28/2003 at 3:39:53 PM
I "hoard" some rare components, such as Swiss-threaded BB cups, to keep my classic frames on the road. I do not object to collecting or hoarding, as any sort of use or preservation is much better than burial in a landfill or meltdown at a scrap metal plant.

MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Centennial... posted by: Fred A on 4/26/2003 at 4:46:39 AM
Hi all.......

I just picked up a gorgeous burgandy 1995 Schwinn Le Tour. Shimao RSX components, etc. Almost mint condition and I got it for a ridiculously low price. Only problem is that both wheels are missing and I have no idea how many gears it's supposed to have. Anybody out there know how big a cassette it came with? I'm trying to locate a set of original wheels but don't know what to look for.

Thanks for any help!!!!!!!

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Centennial... posted by andym on 4/26/2003 at 12:05:35 PM
If it still has the shifters,just count the "clicks",or positions for the rear derailleur. I think eight speed cassettes were out by 95'.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Centennial... posted by Fred A on 4/26/2003 at 1:15:50 PM
The cables for the brakes and rear derailleur were cut (another reason for the good price)so as soon as I replace them I'll count the clicks like you suggested. I should have thought of that in the first place! By the way, the guy I got it from had the wheels stolen off of it and the cables cut while the frame was chained to a post. He was so disgusted he just wanted to get rid of it and not deal with it. Bad for him.......good for me.

   RE:  '95 Le Tour posted by Eric Amlie on 4/26/2003 at 11:07:46 PM
The '95 catalog specs Araya 700c alloy rims laced to Shimano Acera-X hubs with 26mm skinwall tires and a 13-26 7 speed Hyperglide cogset. Nice find!

   RE:RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Centennial... posted by Warren on 4/27/2003 at 12:22:17 AM
9 speed (campy) didn't come out until '97...I think that's also true for Shimano.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Centennial... posted by Fred A on 4/27/2003 at 12:59:43 AM
Guys, thanks for the help! Now it's off to eBay to try and find a set of wheels to complete the package.

Fred A

AGE / VALUE:   Portuguese/Spanish racing bike posted by: D. C. Wilson on 4/26/2003 at 12:58:15 AM
Total mystery bike. Probably 30s-40s-50s era. Badge hard to make out. "Cesti..." something. Orange and green badge color of a little man riding a racing bike straight at us. Language on badge appears to be Gallegos--a region on border of Spain and Portugal. HUGE chrome lugs on steering tube, though not terribly ornate. Lots of curve in forks, but very short top tube and accordingly narrow bottom bracket angle...for lack of a better description Italian racing geometry. Tubing rather heavy. Ancient looking, long handle, Simplex "made in Italy" front derailleur lever on seat tube. No decals. No numbers. Seat lug is unchromed and plain but for horizontal slit about a 1/3" long on each side of top tube.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Portuguese/Spanish racing bike posted by Gralyn on 4/26/2003 at 3:26:39 AM
Where are you all finding these bikes? Sounds very interesting - hope some information turns up. Unfortunately, I don't have a clue - but am curious.