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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   peugoet px10 posted by: Ned on 6/13/2003 at 11:52:32 AM
i have a 54cm.px10 2300892# serial w/ a small metal plate riveted to the bottom bracket shell.recard du monde decal and triangular reynolds decals on the fork and rectangular 531 decal on the seat tube.it has mavic champion du monde sew-up rims and normandy deluxe competition hubs.i have restored it and it runs quite well.simplex dropouts and black painted lugs.i replaced the simplex plastic derailleurs with gipiemme that are really simplex but of a later and metal design.the braze on shifters fit quite well on simplex prestige clamp on mount with some customization of the fixing bolt.my father in law bought it new in kansas in 1973.i have a feeling it may have been sitting for a year or so ?any ideas on what it may be worth.not that i'm selling !

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   peugoet px10 posted by JONathan on 6/13/2003 at 5:49:10 PM
That's cool. I don't see many PX-10's out here in Ca. (northern). We had lots of Italian and Japanese rides, back in the days. Your post raises a very interesting question. What is it worth? That's the overriding paradox for me. If, for example, a buddy has a bike that he can get "X" amount as a selling price. I say to myself, that I have a Fuji Team that measures up in all categories..."No, no, no". It doesn't work that way, Jon. So I have to look at the intangibles (buyer consciousness) and then start working the equation. Hard to say about price when the topic has global aspects, as well. Here in Sil. Val., at a LBS with a flare for what it's all about, I would be interested to see what a PX-10 would fetch. $1K wouldn't be out of line, in my oipinion, considering the market base. Just wild speculation, since there is really no precedent for them in the LBS's line up. I checked out a Rynolds 853, "Le Mond" (used) that was over $1K with "ultegra" group and Mavics. Good price? Yes. Comparable ride? Yes, I would guess, and it isn't a "collectible"..yet. The stuff hanging off the frame is an easy fix. The frame, paint and decals are what's important to me, as they effect the bike's value exponentially (either direction). Bottom line? Logic seems to play a small role in the equation, so I just nod my head, and say; "Right, that's cool"; and then wonder how that bike could sell for that price; which represents the antithesis of thrift store/garage sale prices. As for the restoration for ride?

I never understood Peugeot's until I started riding the beasts. Very unique experience, they are. The steel frame bike is becoming popular. A young bike chap (serious rider) actually used the term "4130" and "last forever" in light conversation at a LBS. Very interesting. You definitely have something good, so I'd hang on to it...since you aren't serious to sell, and maybe in a few years...look what's happening to "varsity" prices!. Good luck, JONathan

   Peugeot ride quality posted by John E on 6/13/2003 at 7:22:39 PM
The Internet's biggest promoter of French bicycles, Sheldon Brown, is enamored with their handling and ride quality. I have always enjoyed riding my 1980 PKN-10/Competition (PX-10 / Super Competition main triangle, plain carbon steel fork and stays), and the two 1973ish UO-8s I have owned were/are far more fun than any bike in that price/quality range has a right to be.

   Peugeot PX-10 posted by John E on 6/13/2003 at 3:49:09 PM
Assuming the paint and decals are in VERY good condition, your Peugeot is worth a few hundred dollars; these bikes are popular with collectors and enjoy a cult status. (They are also superb for long rides at medium speeds.) Keep checking eBay for comparable listings.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   '64 CO-ED posted by: Jesse McCollum on 6/13/2003 at 4:40:58 AM
I have a 1964 schwinn co-ed. it's in pretty close to mint condition with original everything. it's a single speed and has a hub with a red stripe in the middle of it... I was just wondering about how much it's worth, if someone could please email with a good estimate i would really appreciate it. Thank you, Jesse.

   VINTAGE middleweights   '64 CO-ED posted by John E on 6/13/2003 at 3:53:50 PM
Jesse, you may want to post in the vintage middleweights discussion forum. If your Schwinn is in as good condition as you indicate, it should be very marketable.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The one that got away posted by: Don on 6/12/2003 at 3:20:49 AM
Pickings have been slim at the Goodwill here in Olympia, WA for 6 months or more. The lone bargain was an apparently unworn pair of Carnac mountain bike shoes, my size, for $4.00! Hadn't checked for almost a month so I stopped by today. One mini child's dept store bike! Asked the kid in back when they would get some bikes in? He didn't know but told me there were several last week. Said one was Italian & in "pretty" condition, he couldn't remember the brand but it had Cinelli bars & from his description of the "funny 1 piece tires" it had sewups. I didn't want to hear anymore details & will be checking more often for a while. Don

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The one that got away posted by Gralyn on 6/12/2003 at 11:55:42 AM
I spotted numerous old lightweights - some of them pretty good stuff - being received ...and to then be processed, priced, etc......well, I kept checking.....never saw them again....not even one.....well, I take that back...there was one old, crappy, ladies dept. store bike that made it out....but some old man bought it loaded it in the back of his pick-up truck. I think you just have to be in the right place at the right time. Also, there is enough awareness of these old lightweights - such that you are not the only person looking for them....competition!

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The one that got away posted by Stacey on 6/13/2003 at 4:17:33 PM
Gralyn, Alloy Wheels? Why didn't you say so earlier mate? I just passed up at an estate auction an older "Brand X" road bike... complete with obglitaory stem shifters and ahem 'safety levers' for 50˘. It had a nice pair of 27 x 1 1/4 alloys on it. But I passed on it in deference to a '52 Raleigh Sports w/ a Brooks B-72 saddle... got it for half price... a quarter!

I've got 2 (a mismatched pair, if you will) of older Nisi alloys if you want them. E-mail me, I'm always open to trades. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. :-)))

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The one that got away posted by Darryl on 6/13/2003 at 1:14:43 AM
Not much in lightweight road bikes here in West Palm Beach. Did pick up a "95 GT Outpost 21 sp mountain bike at a pawn shop for $30. Nice shape, red, no dents or scratches,freehub would not engage until I flushed it with mineral sprits. Also had to replace the plastic sleeves that enclose the springs on the brake calipers(defect from Shimano). A new chain, grips and few cables and will look like new. Hubs, BB,and HS cleaned and re-greased. Will have about $45 in it when finished. Will sell locally for $100 - $125.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The one that got away posted by Gralyn on 6/13/2003 at 2:13:14 AM
I'm not really looking for anything I can make money from - but really something for my "collection" - always have my eyes for something neat. But moreso, looking for something with alloy wheels. I need alloy wheels more than anything night now - and I can't find a bike that has any. I have seen numerous rusty (very rusty) steel rims - but not even a ladies schwinn I could get wheels off of. Oh, one thing for sure - the bikes in thrift stores never have new tires. Always very old, rotten tires. 99% of them are probably the original tires.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailler Pulleys posted by: Wayne on 6/12/2003 at 2:13:09 AM
Here is one for you all...
I have a few 1970/80 Raleighs that I ride quite a lot,
and I am finally getting to the point where some of the
idler pulleys on the rear deraillers are starting to wear
noticeably. As these units are still working
perfectly, other than this, does anyone know of a
modern pulley that will fit the old Suntour units?
I have a mix of ARX, VGT, AR etc.
These all use the same pulleys, and finding a modern
replacement would help keep them in service.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailler Pulleys posted by JONathan on 6/12/2003 at 5:10:18 AM
Hello, Wayne. I used to swap both pulleys (jockey and tension) with different makes of Japanese derailers. Take one off and match it up with another that's good from a derailer you might have. I have a few derailers in a box, all different types. I just root around and get a pulley. I even recall using a Simplex pulley on a SunTour, or maybe the other way around. Your LBS probably has or can get pulleys.
The steel sleeve is pressed on both sides by a metal shim. As long as the pulley slides into the cage and the screw tightens down on the shim and sleeve, the pulley is probably going to be OK. Make sure the screw is tight and the pulley rotates freely; assuming you have the right diameter. TRhey sure all look the same to me...except Campy, which are steel, but they look like the same size. The tooth spacing needs to be standard as the chains are all standard size.
Just hold the good one up next to the worn one and see if it is the same dimensions. Maybe there's more to it than that. Good luck,...JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailler Pulleys posted by Tom on 6/12/2003 at 12:49:46 PM
JONathan, unfortunately it's not that simple. Shimano uses
a 5mm bolt for the pulleys, while Suntour used 6 mm. The old Simplex derailleurs used 6mm also, so you can swap a Suntour pulley with Simplex, but not Shimano.

I haven't tried it yet, but it looks like there is enough material in the bushing of a non-Centeron Shimano pulley to drill out to accept the Suntour bolt. Alternately, you could try drilling out the Shimano pulley body to accept the old Suntour bushing. Of course, this would have to be done at low speed to prevent melting. Also, you may may to sand/polish the new hole to get satisfactory performance. Either way, you also have drill out the Shimano dust caps.

However, I suspect there may be lots of trash mountain bikes hanging around with Suntour derailleurs. Scrounging parts off them may be your best bet.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailler Pulleys posted by Rob on 6/13/2003 at 5:07:34 PM
Warren...what's the story on Raleigh branded SunTour components? I have a recently acquired Raleigh branded Vx Luxe GT rear der...What components were Raleigh branded?; what years? (This derailleur looks comparable to other Vx Luxes I have that I've dated to around 1976-78, maybe '79...using the two-letter code...the Raleigh der. doesn't have a code that I could find...). Also, on which Raleigh models would these branded components be found?

Whatever help you provide...Thanks...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailler Pulleys posted by JONathan on 6/12/2003 at 4:39:10 PM
Thanks, Tom. If a buddy wants a derailer, I'll make sure he/she gets a Shimano and not one of the SunTours or Simplexes. I'm gonna hang onto those like a bulldog does an big hambone. I presume that old MTB's, or any older derailer bike, is the main source for pulleys, unless you get lucky at an longlived LBS that may have NOS.
I find your posting to be invaluable and they are like a chapter from a book...hint, hint....JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailler Pulleys posted by Rob on 6/12/2003 at 5:25:55 PM
I wouldn't assume too much with pulleys...it's pretty well trial and error. A regular Simplex Prestige won't easily fit with a SImplex Criterium (bolt length issues) and Campy pulleys are not all the same...I tried to replace a cracked Campy pulley with one I had scrounged from somewhere...no go, too wide... THe unthreaded part of the bolt shank is critical, otherwise the pulley will bind or be too loose.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailler Pulleys posted by Dave on 6/12/2003 at 5:55:17 PM
Renaissancecycles.com has Huret adjustable bearing pulleys for $13.These should fit Simplex(which are chipping prone)and old Suntours.Old Pulleys do seem to be an endangered species,loosescrews.com & harriscyclery.com don't carry them anymore.Must be all the Vintage LW's still being ridden!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Derailler Pulleys posted by Warren on 6/12/2003 at 11:00:41 PM
Hey Wayne...what town are you in. I've got some Raleigh branded Suntour stuff you might like...a lot.

AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Nomade Sprint posted by: Gralyn on 6/12/2003 at 12:39:51 AM
I posted a while back about a Motobecane Nomade Sprint I had picked up. It had this weird crank and chainrings.....well, I just spotted one on e-bay....just like mine:

1970s Vintage 27"Motobecane 12Speed Road BIKE
Item # 3612962664

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Nomade Sprint posted by Dennis Savage on 6/14/2003 at 6:02:23 AM
I don't think it will sell for more than the price given. You were asking me weren't you? How many people are going to know what a "Selecta Altus one key release Shimano B-1 Crank (Pedal-gear)" is? And how many people are going to count the spokes like you did? But Old Roads says they get a buttload of hits so maybe people will read about it here and bid on it.
I saw this bike on ebay and didn't think anything about it, just another over priced bike that the seller doesn't know anything about. Aparently he knows more than i did. I didn't think anything about the crank or spoke count. I just counted the spokes again and i think it is 36. I should add the the bike is only over priced if you count the shipping and packing charges.
ok then,

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Nomade Sprint posted by JONathan on 6/13/2003 at 7:12:36 AM
That is a nice bike. The 40-spoke rear is cool. Forged dropouts with integral hanger? That was an entry-level bike? I don't see the wierd cranks you were talking about. The pic. isn't too good on my monitor, I guess. I'd guess it'll finish at more than the price given. What do you think?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Nomade Sprint posted by Gralyn on 6/13/2003 at 11:55:29 AM
The crank arms fit onto a splined spindle - rather than the usual square-end spindle. There's one allen bolt that holds it on. You don't have to use a puller to take it off. Also, the smaller chainring is held on by only one small screw. It fits into the back of the spider and locks in place, then the screw just keeps it there - and keeps it from coming out.

AGE / VALUE:   Old Shimano Components posted by: Jim on 6/11/2003 at 9:47:49 PM
I just scored an older Raleigh Grand Prix. It is 6 speed friction shift. The components are Shimano, but they have no model name. Just some funky engraved designs on them. Any idea what these might be? Any info will help. Thanks..Jim

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Shimano Components posted by Tom on 6/11/2003 at 11:01:48 PM
Sounds like it may be the original 105. The design was a stylized bow and arrow, or at least that's what I that it was!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Shimano Components posted by DannyJoe on 6/12/2003 at 12:27:12 AM
I have the early scroll 105 on a BCA Reynold's 531 from around 1985. I was told it was often called the scroll design model, it had a stamped series of letter/number's on the backside (SH105)or something similar.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Shimano Components posted by Tom on 6/12/2003 at 12:55:33 AM
If it's original 105, the rear derailleur part number, which should be cast onto the back of the parallelogram, should be RD-A105. Front derailleur is FD-A105, stamped on back of cage. Crankset is FC-S105, stamped on back of crankarms. Brakeset is BR-S105, stamped on back of arms. I would expect Hx or Ix date codes.

If I recall correctly, this was the only 105 derailleur that came out before they introduced the indexed, slant parallelogram version. It was only manufactured for a couple years, 1983 & 1984, I believe. In my opinion, this makes this group fairly rare and collectible. Nice find!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Shimano Components posted by Don on 6/12/2003 at 3:09:00 AM
Couple yrs ago a fellow was selling NIB Ross Super GTs, he had several & I got 1 for $96.00 on e-bay. I stripped off & used everything but the seat post & stem on a 1971 Raleigh Super Course which I had just repainted. It really was a much better match for those components and wheels. I'm still trying to figure out a use for the frame. Don

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Shimano Components posted by Ron on 6/12/2003 at 7:03:13 AM
This sounds like what is on my Miyata which I purchased new in 1984. There is no visible number, but the engraving is filled in gold (paint I assume). I cant remember the model of the Miyata and the decal has peeled off, but I think it is a 312.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Shimano Components posted by Tom on 6/12/2003 at 12:02:21 PM
Ron, that would be the Miyata 310. The 312 did not debut until 1987.

AGE / VALUE:   Ross Gran Tour II posted by: Gralyn on 6/11/2003 at 5:03:27 PM
I posted...maybe a week ago....about spotting a Ross Gran Tour II in a thrift store.....and it was priced at $75. It wasn't in pristine condition, either. That price was a little steep for average thrift stores. Well, today I thought I would see if it was still there, if it had been marked down, etc......It was gone! Someone may have actually paid $75 for it? Could be? Or it could be they had already marked it down - and someone bought it after the mark-down. ....well, I may never know

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ross Gran Tour II posted by Ken on 6/11/2003 at 5:29:20 PM
"..a little steep..." indeed. On the plus side, they had to be among the last mass-produced U.S. frames, from Allentown, PA, but they were heavy... we did a thread on Ross GT and SuperGT, maybe last fall. I rode mine for 20 years before parting it out for the Shimano 600 group.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ross Gran Tour II posted by JONathan on 6/11/2003 at 6:30:03 PM
That's gettin up there, above the break-even point. By the time you get all the necessary replenishments to make it a safe ride (minimal) you have a $200 investment. On the plus side, if you have a bunch of pre-inflation, $10 bikes to work up...you have reason to rejoice. I saw a Taiwan Free Spirit going for $50 at the local thrift shop. Not that TRaiwan bikes weren't real good frames, the components are often very junky on the bikes. The brakes were scary on this one. There was a 1982 (last year?) Schwinn "collegiate" 3-speed for $40. Why is the junky stuff the only prospect at thrift stores? The occasional low end (see definition) vintage LW shows up, but it's always a surprise...and they won't sit long. You got to move fast.
Say, $200 for that Ross, after restoration to roadworthy status; that's a a good price for a bike with character and solid construction, and a nice ride. The $75 doesn't seem out of line with the value. IMHO, of course, JONathan
BTW, an earlier post alluded to the time when the current genre of bikes reach to discard point and end up in thrift stores, what kind of prices to expect. The Al frames will be potmetal by then. Maybe the scrap price per pound would be more than they'd fetch as a bike?

   scary brakes posted by John E on 6/12/2003 at 1:56:35 PM
The scariest brakes I ever saw were appropriately named "Dae Yung," which the mechanics at Bikecology always pronounced, "Die Young."

AGE / VALUE:   light and middle weights for sale posted by: Dave on 6/11/2003 at 3:09:48 PM
Hello..................I have many lightweights and middleweights for sale...................ie...1940-41 womens world tour.................63 mens varsity,other varsities,contenials,old mens fuji touring,ross ladies...old mens coligent.............many others.......let me know if your looking for bikes or parts.............thanx dave

AGE / VALUE:   light and middle weights for sale posted by: Dave on 6/11/2003 at 3:09:48 PM
Hello..................I have many lightweights and middleweights for sale...................ie...1940-41 womens world tour.................63 mens varsity,other varsities,contenials,old mens fuji touring,ross ladies...old mens coligent.............many others.......let me know if your looking for bikes or parts.............thanx dave

AGE / VALUE:   Pics of German Bicycle Troops posted by: Tom Findley on 6/11/2003 at 10:50:45 AM
Someone has written that these are rare pics of rare rifles:


Soldiers with Gew88, NCO(with gorget) with Kar98AZ, so photo probably post 1907 at earliest.
I would say reservists, or even LandWehr, as the men look somewhat aged, and they are wearing the M1871 style valise ammo pouch (one only)


Gew 91. Basically a Kar 88 with a stacking hook used by the Artillery, but these guys are not artillery troops.


I took this bike to Holland, and rode it to Kaiser Wilhelm's house:

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pics of German Bicycle Troops posted by Tom Findley on 6/11/2003 at 10:53:32 AM
Pic of Radfahrer gewehr 98 + more

last updated at Jun 10, 2003 11:51 a.m. (1 times)
Someone has written that these are rare pics of rare rifles:


Soldiers with Gew88, NCO(with gorget) with Kar98AZ, so photo probably post 1907 at earliest.
I would say reservists, or even LandWehr, as the men look somewhat aged, and they are wearing the M1871 style valise ammo pouch (one only)


Gew 91. Basically a Kar 88 with a stacking hook used by the Artillery, but these guys are not artillery troops.


I took this bike to Holland, and rode it to Kaiser Wilhelm's house:


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pics of German Bicycle Troops posted by Aldo Ross on 6/11/2003 at 2:31:05 PM
In the photo "BKHLMT" what is the bulbous item located near the bottom of the headtube on the third bike from the right?

Also - note the flat front tire on the first bike from the left!

   Bulbous item posted by Tom Findley on 6/12/2003 at 12:57:17 PM
It is the bell. He may have had to carry something heavy on the handlebar, and relocated the bell.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pics of German Bicycle Troops posted by Oscar on 6/14/2003 at 4:42:28 AM
It's like the start of every club ride. There's always some guy who doesn't notice he's got a flat. Probably ran over his helmet.

MISC:   building a fixie posted by: Edward inVancouver on 6/11/2003 at 5:34:35 AM
A while back I wrote tht I found a pair of wheels which I thought were for a fixed gear. Just found out that the rear hub was a normal Suzue, threaded for the older type of 5 spd cassete. On closer inspection the rim was badly dented, and the hub races scored. I'm still trying to get a fixie up and running, and have located an Atom hub laced to a decent but cheap Japanese rim. I have an old S/A threaded driver with a 18 tooth cog, and spun it on the Atom hub for a "what the h***", and it fits. Even managed to scrounge a lock ring from a drawer full of junk. Might get that thing up and running after all...

   RE:MISC:   building a fixie posted by JONathan on 6/12/2003 at 2:38:55 AM
Nice going. What are you running on the crank? Is a lockring enough to hold the sprocket? I suppose if the rear cog and chainwheel line up perfectly, the tension is not pushing on the lock ring...or am I not getting the picture?
A "fixie" is a brazen ride for me to try. I have the project setup, but I'm going with a regular fixed-gear hub...if I can find one. Is there any advantage to a fixed-gear for general purpose riding? Going downhill must take some practice!...Good luck, JONathan

   RE:RE:MISC: building a fixie posted by Warren on 6/12/2003 at 3:09:17 PM
One obscure advantage I find is the way one focusses on a fixed gear bike. I find myself holding my lines better...a real advantage when commuting in heavy traffic.

I hava a "guru" who has taught me most of what I know about bikes and riding. He told me about 15 years ago that the world would be a safer place and people would be better riders if everyone learned to ride a fixie early on in life. Five years ago I finally tried it and understood what he meant.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC: building a fixie posted by JONathan on 6/12/2003 at 5:04:00 PM
Hey, Warren. There is a vague memory I have of a "fixie" that was my first bike. It was under this tree and had a huge ribbon. Amazing thing, memeory is.
I was poking around a bookstore bicycle section and came across a book that had a picture of a bike that some guy, sometime away back, had taken up to 108 mph. I think it was 108 mph. The chainring was about 2 feet in diameter.
I wonder if it was a "fixie". Imagine what that must have been like. My "fixie" project has languished in the garage for months, while I contemplate the resulting ride. I think a "fixie" would be fun to try out, but as a ride there is a problem I see in my style of riding that may preclude it ever being a regular event for me.
My feet need to shift position on the pedals all the time...like my hnadgrip; busy, busy, busy. I suppose I could adapt to the continuous rotations of the crank, but it would be a major shift in my style.
I can't use clip-type pedals and toe-clips are fitted only for when I climb or tour any great distance. The efficiency is tremendous, but like always with vintage LW's..it's the trade-off game. For level terrain, I see no advantage to the toe-clips as I take weight off the pedal on the upswing and do the "claw" action and get about as good results without having the rigidity.
Fortunately, I have no knee problems, so the rigid position is not an advantage in a kinesthetic way. Cheers, JON-"clipless"-athan

   RE:MISC:   building a fixie posted by Gralyn on 6/12/2003 at 7:31:22 PM
I think every cyclist should try riding a fixie. I read up on it - and thought I would really like to try it. I built myself a fixie bike - and gave it a try. It was really tricky at first. But, it didn't take all that long to get used to it. Another problem was going back and forth between fixed and free-wheel. But now, I have no problem at all.

AGE / VALUE:   Aero La Strada.... posted by: Fred A on 6/11/2003 at 3:17:57 AM
Has anyone ever heard of an Aero La Strada?

A friend called me last night who knows I collect all sorts of bikes, and said his neighbor was going to get rid of this bike. He took it from him and put it in his garage until I can get there to pick it up.
Has anyone heard of this brand before? My friend said it looks like an old road bike. No info as to components, etc.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Repaint? posted by: Terry on 6/11/2003 at 2:57:13 AM
I bought a '74 Schwinn Paramount last fall. It is not original as the wheels have been replaced with 700c's. The brakes are also different I believe (Dura-Ace sidepulls). The rest of the bike is original. My question is the bike needs repainting and I was wondering if I should have it redone by Waterford back to original or have someone do it locally. My concern is that the value would drop if it were not restored back to original condition. I paid $600 for it.
One other question- The bottom bracket is stamped B4 anyone know why?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Repaint? posted by Eric Amlie on 6/11/2003 at 12:53:31 PM
If you're going to repaint it, I would look around for options other than Waterford. I checked with them about having my '71 P15-9 repainted and few other little frame mods(move rear brake bridge down and remove top tube cable guides for a switch to Campy N.R. brakes). The bill would total up to about $750, more than I paid for the bike($600)! There are other frame builders and painters out there who do great work, can get or make all the right decals, and will do the job cheaper. I'm looking at Chris Kvaale in Minneapolis, MN to do mine when I get the bucks up for it.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Repaint? posted by Dave on 6/11/2003 at 1:42:01 PM
Terry , I had a repaint/recoat on a mid '70's Coppi frame,they did a great job and cost much less.This was done by Koolbike.com,definitly shop around.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Repaint? posted by Tom on 6/11/2003 at 1:58:25 PM
Are you sure it's a '74 Paramount and not a '64? The B4 sounds like an incomplete serial number. If this was a 1974 Paramount the serial number format should be M74XX,where M is the month (A = Jan, B = Feb, etc.) and where XX dsignates the XXth frame built that month. A B4XX format would be a February 1964 frame. Maybe someone forgot to stamp the XX? Or maybe it's slightly offset from the B4 (i.e. B4 xx)? There should also be a serial number on the fork to corroborate this. If there is a normal M74XX serial number on the frame, maybe Waterford pre-stamped the month's production B4 back in February 1964, then didn't use everything up and it sat on a shelf for several years until the current serial number was applied?

As for the repaint, I would leave the original patina, unless it's very bad. As Eric states, a proper repaint is very expensive. Unless you can get a good repaint and proper decals, the value will depreciate. Will the new paint increase the value to justify the cost? Probably not. So if you're planning on re-selling it in the near future, the re-paint is probably not justified. But if it's a "keeper", then you may be able to justify it.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Repaint? posted by Terry on 6/11/2003 at 3:10:41 PM
Maybe a little touch up paint, and save for a proper repaint. I have no intentions of selling the bike, it called to me as it sat neglected in a second hand bike shop :) The bottom bracket is stamped P or F4 not B4 as I previously stated, my bad. I was just curious as why it might be there. The rear dropout is stamped F7405, so I am sure of its age. Thanks guys for your input :) By the way it is a P-10 Deluxe painted a silver mist, I can imagine what it looked like brand new--talk about veloerotica!!

   RE: Serial Number posted by Eric Amlie on 6/11/2003 at 3:25:34 PM
Not sure what that number on the bottom bracket is about, but I doubt that it's the serial number. The s/n for the bike should be on the left rear dropout. I guaranty that if the bike is '64 or even '74 it wasn't Waterford who stamped it. Waterford didn't exist then. All the Pmounts of this era were made in "The Cage" at the Chicago factory. I do remember reading that Schwinn bought a huge supply of Nervex lugs and/or bottom bracket shells that took ten years to use up. The frame builders didn't like them because they were hard to braze. I think it's possible that a '74 bike has a '64 bottom bracket shell on it.

MISC:   Handlebar taping posted by: David on 6/11/2003 at 2:35:29 AM
I'm planning to revert to drop bars on my commuter. I'm not sure how to tape it for barcons. Should I position the cable sheaths and tape it up - and then position the levers to line up with the sheath and thread the cable thru last?

   RE:MISC:   Handlebar taping posted by Tom on 6/11/2003 at 2:23:22 PM
Install the lever housing in the bar end first. Then position the cable housing/sheathing. Use some pieces of electrical tape, or any other thin tape) to secure the housing in position. Use one piece at the bar end, one where you want the housing to exit the handlebar tape, and one in between. Now, remove the lever housing and tape as normal, starting near the stem. When you get to the position where you want the housing to exit the handlebar, start wrapping the tape over the housing. When you reach the end of the bar you will probably have to trim the end of the tape so only 1/4" - 1/2" overhangs the bar. If it's much longer, you may not be able to re-install the lever housing. Tuck the overhang into the bar end and re-install the lever housing.

I have seen cases, particularly with the thick cork tape, where the levers and housing was installed first. The installer, then wrapped the tape from the bar end and progressed towards the stem where the loose end was secured using the fancy piece of finshing tape that is usually supplied by the manufacturer. While this may be an easier installation, it causes an annoying lump next to the bar cons and the finishing wrap next to stem is hard to make neat.

     Handlebar taping posted by John E on 6/11/2003 at 3:01:00 PM
I always start taping at the bar ends and work my way up towards the stem, where I secure the end with fancy tape, duct tape, or electrical tape if I am not using self-adhesive bar tape. On my one barcon conversion, I got the barcons cabled up and working for a week or so, before adding the handlebar tape. The barcon cable emerges forward from one of the tape seams. The "lump" at the barcon end was not objectionable, and can be minimized further with a bit of diagonal trimming.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Handlebar taping posted by JONathan on 6/11/2003 at 4:56:21 PM
Hi, Tom. Thanks for the advice. My style of riding places a lot of outward rub on the tape. The end-to-stem wrap works best for me as the overlapping loops don't curl up. The reverse (stem-to-end) has overlaps that are worked up instead of pressing down. I seem to be always pushing down and away on the bars. Kinda like petting a cat the wrong way if the overlap is facing the stem. Ever put a sanding belt on a sander with the top end facing the direction of rotation? Same idea. I am always a bit bewildered by experts having differences of opinions. I guess that's one reason I like vintage LW's...there's room for individual preferences. I don't know if the tape direction is important, as my "busy" grip is not what I see in most riders. Mine wear out fast right at the bend above the brake levers; where my hands slide from the top of the bar to the brake lever housings. Anything to avoid the "tingles"!...JONathan

   RE:MISC: Handlebar taping posted by Warrn on 6/11/2003 at 5:20:22 PM
Put the cable through the housing and pull it taut to give you a good position. Snug the housing to the car-con and use secondary tape (electrical) to hold the housing in position, then wrap the bars later when everything else is cut, trimmed and adjusted. Just did it last night

   RE:RE:MISC: Handlebar taping posted by Warren on 6/11/2003 at 5:21:52 PM
car-con, bar-con, schmar-con...

AGE / VALUE:   Info on Western Flyers posted by: Cynthia on 6/11/2003 at 2:02:22 AM
I just aquired a lovely Western Flyer/ Galaxy Flyer girls bike. I have know idea if its year, 1950 something and would like to find pic's for comp's.

Thank You for your time.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Info on Western Flyers posted by Ron on 6/11/2003 at 1:22:04 PM
My daughter has a Galaxy Flyer, but it is from the 70s, based on all the reflectors and the CSPC sticker. It has 24" wheels. We got it at a flea market two years ago for $30. You may get more info on the Middleweight forum.