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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Using Suntour Indexing parts posted by: Jim on 6/17/2003 at 1:09:28 AM
I am building a bike and I want to use high end Suntour components. I was thinking of going seven speed indexed shifting. Does anyone know what components would be best. I think Superbe was indexed, wasn't it? And if it was, do I have to use a Suntour freewheel? Any help is greatly appreciated.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Using Suntour Indexing parts posted by Warren on 6/17/2003 at 2:47:56 AM
You're opening up a can of worms...what does 7 speed indexed mean...shimano shifters? Some Suntour derailleurs will shift properly and others won't. I was able to get a Cyclone short cage to index OK but it was fussy.

Shimano shifts better with shimano shifters, period. Use Suntour bar-cons, or power ratcheting downtube shifters or even friction is fine...classier.

If Superbe shifters were indexed, I haven't seen any of them...I think you're right but finding those shifters may be difficult.

And Suntour freewheels were about the best available.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Using Suntour Indexing parts posted by JONathan on 6/17/2003 at 5:02:03 AM
I may not have it straight, but I think it was a "detent" shift rather than an indexed shift. I suppose it's academic, as a detent shift can mimic a true index shifter to where it functions the same, except it may be hard to keep "on" and hard to setup to work.
You might try the article; "Sunset for SunTour" on the web. It's real interesting and it addresses the indexing topic. To me, a racer needs the edge you can get with an index system. I find them a nuisance to maintain. Anything that saps versatility out of the equation is going in the opposite direction from retro evolution.
On a MTB, I admit the index makes sense on the rear derailer. Can't count the times my friction rear has popped out on my "lizard" boonie-bopper bike, and that's with the shifter lock screw one erg from stripping out!

    Using Suntour Indexing parts posted by John E on 6/17/2003 at 2:02:50 PM
My road bikes all have either Campag. or SunTour friction-mode shifting (3 downtube, one SunTour barcon). I keep the indexed SunTour accushift thumb shifter on my mountain bike in friction mode and have never had a problem with "automatic" upshifts.

I recently gave the original 1970 SunTour VGT derailleur from my (departed) American Eagle/Nishiki SemiPro to a friend, who got it to work very nicely with his daughter's 7-speed Shimano index shifter.

   RE: Using Suntour Indexing parts posted by Dave on 6/17/2003 at 5:33:29 PM
My wife had a older Specialized Hybrid with a under handlebar Suntour Indexed 7-speed shifter but it did not work very well.Definetly go with the friction equipment or Shimano Indexed.

   RE:RE: Using Suntour Indexing parts posted by Ken on 6/17/2003 at 9:20:05 PM
Suntour's indexing will work just as well as Shimano's, but you can't mix them up; the components won't intermix because of different parallelograms. Cannondale spec'd a lot of these in the early 90s - mine is still tight and trouble-free.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Using Suntour Indexing parts posted by Tom on 6/18/2003 at 1:47:37 AM
Yes, the late 80's Superbe Pro line-up was 7 speed Accu-Shift (i.e. indexed). If you have a line on some, I'd snatch it up. It was/is very nice equipment. Personally, I have never experienced any shifting problems with any Accu-Shift bicycles that have crossed my path.

I can't comment on Ken's statement of not mixing Suntour component lines (I assume he's just talking rear derailleurs, cassettes/freewheels and shifters), but it wouldn't suprise me. I know from experience that this problem existed with a lot of the Shimano equipment during that time period.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Anyone heard of this brand? posted by: Mark Faulkner on 6/16/2003 at 10:20:40 PM
I found an old English lightweight at the local thrift store. The name on the headbadge says Cabalier with a picture of a "cavalier". Notables are a Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub and moustache handlebars. Has anyone heard of this brand? My internet searches have turned up nothing.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Anyone heard of this brand? posted by Warren on 6/17/2003 at 2:53:48 AM
I'm sorry to admit I parted one out yesterday...it had been cannibalized and I finished the job. Mine had a 61 AW hub. I hadn't seen one before either but it was typically well-made and it wasn't a Raleigh rebrand. I kept the nice headbadge. I wish mine had moustache bars.

In addition, mine had been resprayed...pink. I can see it it front of the house waiting to be picked up tomorrow. Last call...going, going....

AGE / VALUE:   Star brake components posted by: Gralyn on 6/16/2003 at 6:40:45 PM
What are these "Star" brake components? Where did they come from? I have a U-08 in which someone previously replaced the center-pull brakes with Star side pulls.

I picked up some "made in Taiwan ROC" bike today....I can't even remember the name - I had never heard of it before - it just had decals, and decals for head badge. But it had ChroMO frame - and alloy components. The wheels were even a different profile from what I am used to seeing....but as I recall, they were a common name. It had quick release on the front only. SunTour gearing, 6-speed, Sugino RT cranks, and Star brakes, and crappy saddle, and crappy pedals. Champion alloy bars, I'm thinking it was some department or sporting goods store bike. There were 2 of them there - Identical. Same size and everything. I'm thinking...how did 2 of them end up there? They are each 23" frame.

Also, at the same place I spotted a Puch. It was regular carbon high tensile steel frame, Araya 27" 1 1/4 ...looked like steel wheels, It was pretty heavy. The pedals were in a bag and they were rusty. But there were some toe clips there, too - they were in good shape. What about a Puch? Are they worth picking up?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Star brake components posted by Tom on 6/16/2003 at 7:47:11 PM
I believe this is the Chang Star Corp., a Taiwanese company that dates back to the early 70's. Their niche appears to be low-end bicycle components, particularly brakes. I've seen recent models of V-brakes, sidepulls and even a disc brake, so they still appear to be in business. As I recall, the 70's brakes didn't look very appealing and they didn't do much more than slow the bike down, particularly when used in conjunction with safety levers! I saw a lot of their centre-pull brakes on CCM Targas and similar models. The current line looks much better, but I don't have any practical experience with it.

I don't have any hands-on experience with Puch, so I'll leave that subject to others.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Star brake components posted by Chris on 6/16/2003 at 9:10:31 PM
(Experience pulled from memory)
Milk crates are everywhere and they are all loaded up with Chang Star brakes and modern, type junk like this.
You are going to be in the shop 5 hours straight looking through every crate. Handling and examining every brake.
Your assignment it to pull out the handful of about 20 brake sets and the small amount of brake related widgets that are worth saving. It's not all junk and Chang Star type stuff. You are looking for vintage brakes so start looking. There are to be found, brakes like:

Mafac, Weinmann, Campagnolo, G.B. and G.B. Altenburger. Schwinn and Raleigh Chopper steel brakes. Phillips and others. You are going to handle a lot of junk and youre going to start believing that there is nothing good in the mess of brakes and 98% of it is stuff you don't need or want and most of it is not collectable but common stuff from todays bikes.
Fear not, because before you are all done you will have found a box full of goodies.
Brake bridge clips, cables, do- hickies and do- dads. Now get started! ignore the cold, the running water, the lack of electricity. You have a flash light anyways.
Brake hunting has been fun. I found bargain treasure and now I have the parts that are maddeningly hard to find. I did this before the place was sold and now there is a bakery there. SAome of this has been polished and resides in the display cabinet.

Star brakes? Yes, very familiar with them!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Star brake components posted by Chris on 6/16/2003 at 9:14:51 PM
Pedals, cranks, wagon and pedal car parts. Wheels, frames, gear parts.

It was a fun place to explore and it yielded up incredible finds!
I meet folks who bought their bike back there 58 years ago and I see the bikes and pictures of the area and that shop and it's incredible.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Star brake components posted by Gralyn on 6/16/2003 at 11:55:46 PM
OK, the bike is "Tunturi". I would really be surprised if anyone has ever heard of this. Although it's chro-mo frame - it doesn't appear to be that well constructed. Star brakes - with black levers and black hoods, Suntour accushift down-tube shifters - which may be promising. Alesa rims - maybe OK. Sugino RT cranks - I think these are OK. Champion bars - maybe OK. The stem is black (I have a black one on my Schwinn Traveler). The seat post is standard round steel. The pedals are steel, and very heavy. Why did I pick up this bike? I guess for rims and cranks. I thought of putting all the stuff on a Fuji Del Ray frame I have.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Star brake components posted by Tom on 6/17/2003 at 12:32:57 AM
Graylyn, we have Tunturi fitness equipment at our gym. They are a Finnish company that also manufactures bicycles. The fitness equipment is decent stuff, but I don't know about the bikes. I wonder if it's the same company? Regardless, their website is http://www.tunturi.com/2003/english/

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Star brake components posted by Gralyn on 6/17/2003 at 1:03:04 AM
Yes, I was wondering about the Tunturi....then I get the idea to look it up on the net....duh! I found what you posted - a company in Finland, which makes fitness equip. and bikes. The bike I found was probably from late 80's or so.

MISC:   Sears Bikes posted by: MC on 6/16/2003 at 12:47:07 AM
Does anyone know of a website with information on the history of the Sears line of road bikes? Some of the earlier models were not all that bad especially the Puch-made versions. I can only assume that the pre-1970 models would start becoming collectible, but there is a general lack of information about them on the web. Any help?

   RE:MISC:   Sears Bikes posted by Jimbo Jones on 6/16/2003 at 8:24:41 PM
Not much help but have found these. No history. Doubt they will ever be worth much. Ive got a fondness for them though.


and mine can be found in the archive of


( however it has since been turned into a single speed aluminum clad bmx/mtb style bike)

   RE:MISC:   Sears Bikes posted by JONathan on 6/17/2003 at 5:12:16 AM
I got mine right out of the Sears catalog in 1966. It had 10 sp., Campy front and rear with cp Vainqueur's I recall. Try the "pdf" catalogs available at some sites as links. I was able to sort through a lot of my older "King-Seeley" power tools that were branded under Sears "Craftsman". The catalog had a lot of info on the bike as I recall sittin in the front room going over it with "pops". It was a great bike! Too bad it didn't make it through the "U" with me. Long story. I've tried to find out about it. I'll try again and repost...JONathan

   RE:RE:MISC:   Sears Bikes posted by mc on 6/17/2003 at 12:26:54 PM
Thanks JONathan. There seems to be a lot of info on the JC Higgins line, but I recall from the days of my youth a segment of time during the 60s when Sears sold some real nice road bikes. I don't recall them being Campy equipped, but I distinctly remember the detailed lugwork. Someone told me that Puch made most of these, but I've been unable to verify. There was also a nice Ted Williams model, if I recall. Since that time however, they went cheap with stamped dropouts, 0 braze-ons, etc. Almost like they reclassified them as toys instead of road bikes. Catalog pdf's would be great if you find any.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   one fast peugeot!!!!!! posted by: luke on 6/15/2003 at 8:31:58 PM
i recentally added new tires and tubes to a 1982 peugeot
uo-8 that i picked up for a song[$7.00]dollars.
what a ride!packed the[ball]bearing,s,added a fuji seat
and took it for a spin or did it take me for a spin?
like lighting!!!!quick!!!
anyway here the v.lightweight bikes have dried up in all
thrift stores.
only ladies framed cycles and some mountain bikes that dont
deserve to be hung,they should be buried yesterday!!!!!!!!
do keep posted to the tour de france as fellow texan,
lance armsrong attempts his 5th consecutive win.amazeing!!!

   VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   one fast peugeot posted by John E on 6/16/2003 at 12:04:56 AM
I know what you mean. I put over 30 delightful kilometers on my UO-8 today. It is pretty nimble, even with 27 x 1-3/8 cyclocross knobbies, and it provides a wonderfully stable, comfortable ride, with surprisingly little bottom bracket flex on hill climbs. The extra kg or two of frame weight is not that big a deal for transportation and recreational cycling.

The only downside of the UO-8 is that I swing too wide on tight turns, unless I remember to compensate for its lazy steering response. (My shorter-than-stock fork rake helps somewhat.)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   one fast peugeot posted by JONathan on 6/16/2003 at 3:11:37 AM
I agree. A little body "english" and countersteer combind with a few hundred miles riding and it becomes an extension of your body. Mine seems to almost have awareness of what I want to do...is that a bit wierd?
I think so, but I really can't explain it. On the 4th of July "ride to the baylands", I always take that fella. It is quick and nimble without the twitchy ride of a road racer in close traffic. On the wide open, the road racer is better, but it's like a knight on a chess board...in and out of the pawns, no problem! Glad you got one. They are unique.Cheers, JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   one fast peugeot!!!!!! posted by Gralyn on 6/16/2003 at 2:23:31 PM
Talk about your dried-up thrift stores!
One thing I have noticed lately, is the Iversons. I've seen them in about 3 different stores. I never saw them before. They weigh a ton - and I just leave them there. Another bike I have noticed lately, is the Spaldings. I leave them also. I went into one store - there was a Murray 10 speed there at the door. By the time I left the store - someone had already loaded it up and was off with it. Wow, they're even grabbing those up!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   one fast peugeot!!!!!! posted by JONathan on 6/17/2003 at 7:18:32 AM
Spalding putting a bike out? The one I saw made my previous opinion of Spalding sporting equipment drop as few notches. I'd take a Huffy over the Spalding. The Murray are the cheapest looking bikes and they're lying around in yards next the signs that say "Free". Can you even imagine what those bikes would be like off-road? My old Sears Austrian 3 speed was built tougher. That's why the vintage LW's are not showing up as much. You can't beat 'em. It's all about quality. They'll never build bikes like them, again. They are too good.

   The supply is dryin' up! posted by Elvis on 6/18/2003 at 2:19:47 AM
It isn't just the thrift stores. A year and a half ago I found cool stuff at garage sales; a nice lightweight lugged frame made-in-the-US of A, 1985 Schwinn LeTour. All auminum components, brazed on water bottle mount, cotterless cranks, areo downtube shifters, 12 speed, near mint condition everything shiny -- Rides great. I paid ten bucks. Last year I got a lightweight Bridgestone Kabuki 12 speed with nice small rear gears, really fast, and the glittering blue paint was still shiny. Now nothin'. It's not just garage sales, either. On municipal cleanup week the only bikes I see are the ones been hit by cars and look like pretzels. Some people i talked to think its the economy, and that people can't afford new bikes. But I know better. The old bikes -- the good ones, anyway -- can't be beat. Last year there was a day I put 75 miles on my old Raliegh. I can't do that on my new road bike. It just doesn't ride the same over long hauls. The old rides could do it. And they still can.
Maybe people finally got wise to what these bikes are about. I hope not. I mean, I wish people would appreciate them. Like Mark Twain said: "Get a bicycle. You will not regret it -- if you live." On the other hand, I wish i could still find good deals and cool junk bikes, but I fear them days are going, going, gone. Maybe time will prove otherwise. But until then, i got my eyes peeled for old road bikes.

AGE / VALUE:   Lacing wheels with used spokes posted by: Darryl on 6/15/2003 at 5:20:38 PM
Would like some discussion on the wisdom or safety of re-lacing wheels with used spokes. I was told by a reliable source not to re-use spokes unless you can lace them exactly the way they were positioned originally. The stresses must always be identical as the original pattern or the integrity of the wheel will be compromised. I realize that it would probably make little difference for a lightweight rider that doesn't abuse the bike, but would it be safe for a heavy rider who is rough on the bike? Or for a mountain bike?

     Lacing wheels with used spokes posted by John E on 6/16/2003 at 12:11:10 AM
If the wheel has relatively low miles, was built with high-quality hub and spokes, and has suffered only rim damage, then by all means reuse the spokes, perhaps simply by setting the new rim directly over the old and transferring the spokes one by one. (I recently did this for the Bianchi, since I had a pair of tubular wheels with gouged rims and a NOS pair of Omega clincher rims.)

On an older wheel or one which has suffered spoke damage, such as chain overshifting, spoke reuse is false economy.

When reusing an old hub, first inspect it for elongation of the spoke holes. If the spoke holes have been strained and you alter the lacing pattern, you could be setting yourself up for spoke breakage.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Lacing wheels with used spokes posted by Tom on 6/16/2003 at 2:25:15 AM
I am in agreement with John E. I was in the process of posting my response when his popped up. For interested parties, here is my reasoning.

Spokes fail due to metal fatigue. This is the weakening caused by the cyclic changes in the load of the spokes as the wheel revolves. Eventually, every spoke will fail due to fatigue. How quickly it fails depends on the spoke tension , load on the wheel, distance traveled and number of spokes in the wheel to share the load. Basically, on every revolution the spoke flexes and experiences a change in tension. Eventually, this all adds up to the point where the spoke breaks. It’s similar to bending a paper clip back and forth until it breaks. Therefore we shouldn’t re-use high mileage spokes, as they may have already used up an appreciable portion of their life span.

So, why shouldn’t we remove spokes? The wheel building process causes permanent bends in the spokes at the elbows, crossing points and nipples. If we remove these spokes, the bends required in their new location will not be the same. This will increasing the flexing and load changes and accelerate the fatigue process. Let’s go back to our paper clip example to prove this point. Let’s say we find that it takes an average of 30 bending cycles to break a typical paper clip. Now, take a new paper clip and apply 15 bending cycles. Then start bending it in a different direction. You’ll find that it breaks well before an additional 15 bends. This is similar to the accelerated fatigue that happens when you re-use a spoke in a different location.

Good wheel builders will stress relieve the spokes to create bends that improve spoke line. Why can’t we do this to re-align our used spokes in a new location? In order to achieve this, the tension must be increased beyond the yield point to cause to a permanent set and doing so with a high mileage spoke may cause it to break. Again., let’s go back to our paper clip example. Apply 15 bending cycles. Now if you apply one big bending cycle it will probably snap. Even if it doesn’t snap, it won’t stand the an additional 15 bending cycles of a typical paper clip.

Granted, the paper clip is an extreme example and is not identical to what happens to a spoke (because we are permanently bending the paper clip on each cycle and this does not happen in a spoke). However, I think it illustrates the basic principles of fatigue, how it relates to spokes and why we should not re-use them, except under the conditions so concisely stated by John E.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Lacing wheels with used spokes posted by JONathan on 6/16/2003 at 5:37:13 AM
Busted spokes are a dawgone pain for me. I get tired of snapping the little lightweight spokes on those cheapo rims. Usually they break off right at the hub insertion on the drive side rear wheel. If you are like me, you need the best rims and hubs you can get. New spokes are essential...$16 is a lot, but then you can rest easier on the road.
The best prevention is to keep the wheel trued and spokes tensioned at the correct force. What I do is check a wheel that is tensioned properly and then use that "kinesthetic memory" to evaluate my wheel. KInda like an art. Now, if you have a tensionometer, so be it. You'll still check the tension with your fingertips. It's a lot like tuning a piano...or violin, you can be an octave off and "ping". That's as easy as eatin chicken pie. On my wheels, I replace a spoke and retrue the wheel. Ride around and then retighten. My first wheel was 14 ga. spokes and they were used. I had em in a pile with no order. I don't think I could get away with that on a LW alloy wheel with 16 or 18 ga. spokes.
The yield point of a properly adjusted (and good quality steel) will last a long, long time IFF you keep correct tension. So, I'd get all new spokes and get on with it. The loose spoke will experience friction at all points of contact...hub, spokes and rim. That's going to wear out your hub and rim real fast. Too tight, and the spoke will distort the rim eyes and hub holes as well as be primed to snap on a sneaky pothole or driveway blip. My toughest wheels are Barettas that are running on a rigid Raleigh "lizard" (MTB, pre-Elkhorn!) which is my "Oh, I can do that" ride. I know this my opinion, but high quality steel rims are tougher than any alloy rims. In my experience. Cheap steel rims are not worth spoking, IMHO.
I'd cut out a couple day's at the burger joint for lunch and shell out for new spokes. Just my 2c's.
Tom, I dig your paperclip analogy, way cool.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Lacing wheels with used spokes posted by Tom on 6/16/2003 at 12:56:59 PM
With regards to the paper clip analogy, I'd just like to re-iterate that it is not an example of real fatigue, but does illustrate the basic principles. Real fatigue normally involves thousands to millions of cyclic loads and does not involve permanent deformations. It all takes place at a incredibly small level. By exaggerating the loads, the paper clip analogy speeds up the process, to the point where the average person can appreciate the effect.

JONathan, I'm not sure what you mean by distorting the hub holes? Normally spokes will displace material on an aluminum hub. It almost looks like the spoke melted into the flange and hole of the hub. This phenomenon is actually desirable. By seating into the aluminum, the spoke is fully supported by the flange at its bend and and a couple millimetres of it's length. This signicantly reduces the flexing and fatigue. In fact, hub manufacturers countersink the holes to better support the spoke and aid this process (the best hubs actually have trumpet shaped holes that mimic the curve of a spoke's elbow). Steel hubs, with their harder and thinner flanges do not support the spoke as well and consequently are more susceptible to breaking spokes. This, not weight, IMHO is the important reason for aluminum hubs. However, this seating is not normally visible on a built wheel. It becomes apparent only after the spokes are removed. This is probably not what you are referring to, but I thought I'd clarify the matter for other readers.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Lacing wheels with used spokes posted by Dave on 6/16/2003 at 4:09:02 PM
That explaines why my cheap MTB hub snapped spoke so quick!Thanks for the info.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Lacing wheels with used spokes posted by JONathan on 6/16/2003 at 5:45:27 PM
Thanks for the post, Tom. What I thought was wear is actually a good thing. I may have to salvage a few hubs from the scrap box! Thanks, again....JONathan
BTW, thanks for the clarification (correction?) in my post. Insufficient data and incomplete understanding can lead to a "derangement" hypothesis. But, without professing...just conjecture, there is stimulus for thorough discussion. That's why this is a great site!
Cheers, JONathan.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   barn find 1934 racer !!!drums,3sp,drop bars posted by: Curtis McManus on 6/14/2003 at 11:31:16 PM
Hello ! have found an old Raleigh sports model ,register says 1934 ! are they worth restoring ? LB 3 front hub ? rear says KB 4 ? 3 speed sturny ! are they correct for 1934 ? frame says T 35810 under seat on the frame lug left side ,will send a pic , EMail me at curtis12@btinternet.com

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   barn find 1934 racer !!!drums,3sp,drop bars posted by Ron on 6/15/2003 at 1:36:17 PM
I'm sure that any 70 year old Raleigh is worth restoring. You don't see too many with the drop bars, but they were around. You may find even more depth of knowledge on the English Roadster forum. Also Sheldon Brown's site has several pages devoted to Raleigh bikes.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   barn find 1934 racer !!!drums,3sp,drop bars posted by Edward in Vancouver on 6/16/2003 at 3:10:41 AM
Nice find! THe "K"series hubs were fore-runners of the famous "AW" hubs. The "K" was made from 1931-38. (Sigh...)The most exoctic thing I can find around here is a Sears Free spirit WITHOUT the rusted-on U-lock holder...

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh rear spacing posted by: David on 6/14/2003 at 10:45:29 PM
I recently bought a Competition GS frame on ebay to build up with an FM hub. I expected its frame to be spaced at 120mm but it seems to be 126mm. Are the bikes from about 1980 going to be 126mm or more? When was 120mm spacing abandoned?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh rear spacing posted by Ken on 6/15/2003 at 12:28:36 AM
I had a quick look at my '78 Competition GS and found a 120mm spacing.
Here's Captain Bike's treatise; he doesn't go into dates, but says a 5 spd cluster would take a 120 spacing.
Also there's a picture of a '79 on
Retro Raleighs doesn't indicate when the CGS ended, but by '83 there was 'Raleigh USA' ...
I can't help but wonder if yours was 120 originally.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh rear spacing posted by Tom on 6/15/2003 at 1:08:53 PM
There is no "drop dead date" for 120 mm spacing. In fact, if you go out and check your Wal-Mart, I'm pretty sure you'll find it's still alive and kicking on the very low end stuff. As for 126 mm spacing, there were some very early attempts, but in general it started to appear on the top end bikes in the late 1970's. By the mid 1980's it was the prevalent spacing. This "filtering down" practice is the norm for most bicycle technology. New technogolgy is usually introcuded on the top line models and filters down through the line-up over a period of several years.

In 1980, the upper end of the Raleigh line-up was probably 126 mm/6 speed freewheels, while the lower end was 120 mm/5 speed freewheels). Given that the Competition was pretty high in the Raleigh line, it's very possible that 126 mm spacing is correct. However, the only way to be sure is to reference the appropriate catalog or some old magazine road tests.

   rear spacing posted by John E on 6/16/2003 at 12:17:14 AM
I agree. From what I have seen, 1980 is the APPROXIMATE model year during which many manufacturers moved to 6-speed freewheels and 126mm spacing. As far as I have been able to tell, that is also when Peugeot changed over to Swiss BB threading.

When my brother and I were riding 10-speed bottom-of-the-line red and gold Bianchi Corsas in 1962, one of my friends had a green "Campi," which was identical except for the (at the time) very unusual 6-speed freewheel.

AGE / VALUE:   Gone in a flash! posted by: Gralyn on 6/14/2003 at 12:15:55 PM
I recently posted about some of my latest sightings. I've noticed these old Japanese bikes - which are basically the same bike - but with many different names. They all have steel frames, steel cottered cranks, steel rims, Shimano Tourney brakes, and Shimano levers, etc. They are heavy - and most of them have not been in good condition. Then, I spotted 2 (his and hers) Iversons. They were heavy! But not in too bad condition. when I saw the Iversons - they had not even been priced yet. Oh, there was a Ross Gran Tour II ($75) and some Free Spirits and Huffys for $25 - $35. Well, just wanted to say that within 2 days - they were all gone! All of them! These bikes (the one's even I pass on) are getting grabbed-up very quickly. I'm thinking: maybe folks think they are worth something? or will be? Or maybe they visited their LBS and saw what a new bike costs.

   old basic 10-speeds posted by John E on 6/14/2003 at 8:24:20 PM
To me, old basic 10-speeds are among the best general-purpose transportation bicycles ever made. (Disclosure: my "park it anywhere" daily driver/beater is a 1972 Peugeot UO-8 with aluminum Rigida rims, SunTour barcons, ultra-6 freewheel and derailleurs, and aluminum Sugino cranks. It replaces a slightly newer UO-8 whose chainstay cracked to protest 4 years of a daily 12 percent climb to my office.) With 27x1-1/4 or even 27x1-3/8 tyres, these bikes can handle potholes and bumps decently, while providing a surprisingly efficient ride. If they get stolen, they are easily and economically replaced.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh-Branded Components posted by: Rob on 6/14/2003 at 5:13:29 AM
I posted this below in the thread on pulleys for some reason it jumped the queue and got lost in middle instead of going to the end...does anyone know why this sometimes happens? Any I was after some info. on Raleigh-branded components:

"Warren...what's the story on Raleigh branded SunTour components? I have a recently acquired Raleigh branded Vx Luxe GT rear der...What components were Raleigh branded?; what years? (This derailleur looks comparable to other Vx Luxes I have that I've dated to around 1976-78, maybe '79...using the two-letter code...the Raleigh der. doesn't have a code that I could find...). Also, on which Raleigh models would these branded components be found?

Whatever help you provide...Thanks..."

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh-Branded Components posted by Warren on 6/14/2003 at 1:33:23 PM
My '77 Raleigh SuperCourse MK II came with what I think are the same Raleigh branded VGT derailleurs and SR crankset... as well as Carlton hoods with dia-compe centre-pulls. I'm fairly certain that Raleigh started branding the brakesets as well. That's all I know...I cannibalized the bike to make a fixie so I have these components in the parts drawers.

      Raleigh-Branded Components posted by John E on 6/14/2003 at 8:28:57 PM
Are you sure the brakes are DiaCompe, and not Weinmann? I knew that Peugeot-branded cranks were Stronglights and Bianchi-branded cranks were Ofmegas, but had previously assumed that late-1970s Peugeot-branded centerpull brakes were Vainqueur 999s. However, since the only reason for Peugeot to abandon Mafac would have been economic, I suppose they are DiaCompes.

   RE:   Raleigh-Branded Components posted by Ken on 6/15/2003 at 12:40:07 AM
I hold in one hand a centerpull marked Weinmann 610 Vainqueur 999 - and in the other, an identical centerpull except for the label which reads Raleigh 610 Weinmann, removed from a 74 Super Course MK II.

   RE:   Raleigh-Branded Components posted by Warren on 6/15/2003 at 1:09:50 AM
Dohhh!...of course...they are the Weinmann 610/750 combo.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh-Branded Components posted by Rob on 6/15/2003 at 4:14:04 AM
Gee...this afternoon I was digging around in the used derailleur pile at a second-hand bike shop and found another Raleigh-branded Vx GT rear der. (Only $5CDN-$3.75US) This one with a date code, "WI", which to me means Sep (I); 1980 (W), and must be right near the end of Vx GT's run...I think it was around 1981 SunTour brought out the AR, ARX and BlueLine series...

I guess when you start thinking about this stuff, you start finding it... :)

AGE / VALUE:   TREK Lightweight posted by: Dan on 6/14/2003 at 2:56:15 AM
I picked up a super lightweight 10-speed TREK, serial number 012973. I'd like to restore it as accurately as possible, but I need some ideas. First of all, can anyone help me out with age/value? Is it a '73, as the serial # might imply?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   TREK Lightweight posted by Roger on 6/14/2003 at 4:13:16 AM
I have had a couple of Treks in need of identification. A good resource is http://www.vintage-trek.com/. Not only is there an section to help you identify the year by identification number but there is also a gallery with examples of paint etc. Good luck.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   TREK Lightweight posted by Bryant on 6/15/2003 at 8:52:05 PM
Hi Dan,
Roger is right. The best place for Trek info is the vintage-trek website. If you don't see what your looking for on the site, just e-mail Skip (the webmaster and Trekkie). He is very prompt with his replies. I use a 1982 Trek 614 as my commuter. Kept it fairly original except for the bar-cons and hi-rise stem I put on it. They are definitely sweet bikes. Nice Find!!

AGE / VALUE:   NOS Peugeot PR-10 posted by: Warren on 6/13/2003 at 9:47:49 PM
OK JONathon and other francophiles. Today, I was offered a new NOS PR-10, right out of the box...24 inches so I can't ride it. White with black trim and straight Reynolds 531 w/chrome fork ends. Basic Simplex, Nomandy competition hubs with Mavic tubbies, Stronglight cranks, cast dropouts, new but shopworn Brooks Pro...bonus is the matching frame pump.

Here's the catch...the guy is waffling on a price...so what is it worth...$200, $300, $500? Hell, I'd pay $200 for a new wheelset of this quality. Does anyone seriously want it? I really wish it was 22 inches.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   NOS Peugeot PR-10 posted by Tom on 6/14/2003 at 1:51:36 AM
Warren, if it was me, I'd bargain the guy as low as he'd go. Push all the hoopla on him,...how it's not a PX-10, .... how it's not 531DB, ... how it's way too big for you, ... how it's not a popular frame size, ... how nobody wants tubulars, etc., etc., etc. Then, consider how much value those NOS parts would be to you and what your chances are of ever finding them again, in that condition. If it's more than what the guy is asking, buy the bike and strip the parts. Sell the frame and bide your time until a suitably sized French frame comes your way. Even it nothing comes your way, you can just about guarantee a profit if you decide to sell parts down the road. Call me crazy, but that would be my approach.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   NOS Peugeot PR-10 posted by JONathan on 6/14/2003 at 6:35:58 AM
Warren, it is a great find. The question is: Do they want to make money or do they want to be generous to a person who obviously appreciates it? People (myself included) like to feel that they're contibuting to another's happiness at the expense of a few less beans in the pot. Not to confuse the issue, but to offer a different slant, I have discovered that by showing appreciation for the item (which is just an outward manifestation of the truth), and by offering a price that's low, yet not insulting, works OK and I feel better about it no matter what the result. As for this particular product, you need to ask; "How bad do I need it" and "How much did the guy/gal have to go through to acquire it"? The 'ol "easy come, easy go" can play into it. OTOH, if there is only a business acquisition and turn around issue at the base of the situation, then I'd walk away,...unless, I really just had to have the thing. In my case, I have a money cap on this hobby, so my interests are primarily the "fords and chevies" of the bike world. Maybe that's "Renaults and Peugeots". Not that I don't admire the finer rides, I find that my conscience rests easier and I don't have to pitch a tent on the front lawn. I'd go with instinct on this one. Good luck, post what happens, too. I'd sure like to get that bike, but it's a bit out of reach....JONathan

     NOS Peugeot PR-10 posted by John E on 6/14/2003 at 8:40:58 PM
I know the standard profit maximization advice is to part everything out, but I wonder whether a rare 1970s NOS Peugeot might actually be worth more intact. Yes, the PR-10/PKN-10 series Peugeots lack the PX-10's chrome stays and Reynolds 531 fork and stay, but they share the PX-10's componentry, paint, decals, geometry, and double-butted 531 main triangle ("construit avec Reynolds 531, 3 tubes renforce"). Since the handling and ride quality are identical, I refer to my 1980 PKN-10 as "almost a PX-10."

FOR SALE:   Peugeot crankset Simplex 170mm posted by: Jim on 6/13/2003 at 2:04:19 PM
Shameless self promotion. I have a few items on ebay. The Follis (got it from Chuck in a trade for a Viner frame)it's a pinch too small, plus I'm mad at the French, Item # 2178687419 if anyone from OldRoads buys it, I'll include shipping. Peugeot crankset item # 2179185141 Also have a set of NOS Lyotard french thread pedals not yet listed. I have to go eat my hamburger and Freedom fries now...

   RE:FOR SALE:   Peugeot crankset Simplex 170mm posted by Oscar on 6/14/2003 at 4:37:10 AM
No shame in it really.

AGE / VALUE:   Track stems posted by: Tom C on 6/13/2003 at 4:04:00 PM
Two old track stems I'd like to know the value of in interest of possible selling. 1. Cinelli chrome, non-adjustable, NOS with slight shop wear, oval "Cinelli Milano" 9 cm length. 2. Schwinn adjustable chrome with rounded ball end "Major Taylor"? Schwinn in script, AS bolts,dural clamp. Used GC with some oxidation and surface fine scratch marks. Came off a '46 curved seatube Watsyn built New World badge 3 speed drum brake Town and Country style tandem oddly enough.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Track stems posted by sam on 6/16/2003 at 10:30:52 PM
Anything Watsyn built I'd try my best to keep together.That is unless you didn't get the frame or it was run over or the like.Tandems bring big $ even though they are hard to ship.

WANTED:   Bernard Hinault Toe Straps posted by: brent on 6/13/2003 at 2:21:07 PM
Anyone seen any of these around lately? I'm looking for the world champion rainbow nylon ones.