This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   kickstands revisited posted by: JONathan on 6/18/2003 at 11:45:20 PM
Very few bikes have the proper plate (Schwinns do) that accepts a bolt-on kickstand across the chainstays at the BB intersection. As I've removed almost all from my bikes, there is now a big 5 gal. bucket with lots of kickstands. Some are funky, too. I was wondering if there is any reason to provide the indigenous arthropods with such luxurious accommodations in the long hope that someday the hardware may be of interest (value) to the bike community. They'd probably set a guy back $10 to buy one new...if you can find one. I give them away, after a little lecture on how you wouldn't want to take a vice to your chainstays, so why do you want a kickstand? Afterward, a small percentage still want one for their bike. Maybe they were the one's who just looked all around during my brief spiel.
I use one on my Schwinn "traveler" as the bracket mounting plate is ideal for its use. I prefer the stand when using the "venus fly-trap" style racks which are so ubiquitous in my area of travel. I can't figure those out. What bikes were they made for? The problem is I and up scrapping either the bike frame or my legs trying to anchor the bike in the rack. So, the kickstand offers a solution. I simply set the stand and cable up on the lift-ring for the "trap". BTW, what about those cool bike racks that were bars placed vertically along a couple of 2 inch pipes? They worked fine...and you could get more bikes in a given space and no scraps. On and on and on. Sorry. Anyway, kickstands. Keep or dump?...Thanks, gents, JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   kickstands revisited posted by JONathan on 6/19/2003 at 12:06:42 AM
I meant; "scraping" and "scrape"...although maybe scrap is better.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   kickstands revisited posted by Gralyn on 6/19/2003 at 2:05:20 AM
I have a box of kickstands. I also remove most of them. Some of them, I just leave on - and use - but most I remove. On some rare occasions - I find a bike without a kickstand - of course, I would not put one on it - but the great thing is that it doesn't have the damaged and scratched chain-stays.

I have one bike - a Royce-Union - that has this huge kickstand - that mounts between the seatstay and chainstay. The mount itself is huge. I mean HUGE! This is one whopping kickstand. I have never seen one like it - so I will probably hold onto it.....kind of a novelty item.

AGE / VALUE:   Need Bike ID help posted by: JA Collins on 6/18/2003 at 7:13:26 PM
I have 2 bikes that I did a search for with no luck. One is about 1982 Puch Meteor Deluxe. The other is a Mizutani Seraph Spree -- made in Japan? Anybody got quality, price or photo details? Thanks much.

    Need Bike ID help posted by John E on 6/18/2003 at 7:27:21 PM
The Puch, of course, is from Austria's largest manufacturing conglomerate, Steyr-Daimler-Puch. I am not familiar with that specific model; please post a list of components, tubing composition stickers, etc.

The Japanese Mizutani Seraph Spree made its debut briefly ca. 1973, during a bicycle shortage. We sold perhaps a half-dozen at Bikecology, and I do not recall whether it was a bottom-of-the-line model aimed at the Nishiki Olympic, or something like the Kokusai (CrMo frame, aluminum cranks and rims). The Mizutani Seraph (without the "Spree") was their somewhat higher-end d.b. CrMo Nishiki SemiPro competitor.

   RE: Need Bike ID help posted by Gralyn on 6/19/2003 at 2:18:19 AM
I picked up a Puch today. It has some script on it - but I haven't even had a chance to check it out to see what it says - what model it is. It's high tensile steel frame, steel Araya rims (1 1/4) with high flange hubs. 5-speed Suntour cassette (even has a 32 t large cog), Suntour 7 der. Suntour stem shifters (bummer). Dia-Compe center-pull brakes. The levers had the extra safety levers - but they had been removed. It's black - and looks like it will clean up really nicely.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   original-equipment Peugeot UO-8 posted by: John E on 6/18/2003 at 2:04:25 PM
The following link may be of interest to those who are curious about French bikes or the appropriate original equipment for a ca. 1970 Peugeot UO-8:


During the 1970s Bike Boom, when PX-10s were still a regular fixture of the Tour de France, a white Peugeot UO-8 was the bike after which John Q. Public lusted. (The other color choices were a far less-popular blue and green.) The white UO-18 mixte was even harder to keep in stock.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   original-equipment Peugeot UO-8 posted by Rob on 6/18/2003 at 6:30:20 PM
A classic UO-8!!!, only the leather AGDA seat has been replaced!!! ...the price seems a little ambitious...I guess they are testing the market...no harm in that. People are still throwing away ones like that up here...hard to believe...and you can buy them fairly easily for around $30($22US) to $50CDN($37US)...maybe there's a premium for a white one..I don't have any of that color...

     original-equipment Peugeot UO-8 posted by John E on 6/18/2003 at 7:31:13 PM
I agree with you about that great original AGDA seat! At Bikecology, we must have replaced dozens of those with vinyl padded things. Although it is still possible to pick up a UO-8 at a yard sale price, this one appears to be in much better and much more original condition than most. In the recent past, I have seen well-maintained UO-8s at other bike shops at almost this price level.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   original-equipment Peugeot UO-8 posted by JONathan on 6/19/2003 at 3:01:50 AM
Thanks for posting that UO-8 listing, John E..It's on my watch log...as I have a particular interest in the outcome of the bidding on that one due to my three white ones (UO-8's and UE-18) that are in excellent condition. One UO-8 (25" frame) is a bit better from what I can tell from the pic..The ADGA seats are cool. One is showing some minor checks, but one is nearly new! The UE-18 has a plastic spring laced pad...probably the original seat was replaced out of ignorance. I have adhered to the suggestion earlier (yours?) that the various substandard components that are replaced be set aside in a box with a label for later refitting for original status. My black UO-8 from the late '70's is my runner with cotterless cranks and SunTour throughout, along with Vainqueur cp's and SR stem. It's an excellent riding bike, and pretty dawgone tough, too. I don't back off taking off road without a blink. The 1+3/8" tires are a fine compromise size for all riding conditions. Peugeot would sell those bikes if they started making them again...I would surmise....Ride long and well, JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   original-equipment Peugeot UO-8 posted by Bryant on 6/19/2003 at 11:54:47 AM
Spittin image of the one I picked up for $10. only mine is a 60cm and is in better condition. I'll have to check the seat though, not sure what the make is. And since I plan on riding it, I swapped out the stem and handlebars (keeping them to the side for when I move to the big house with the large covred area for showcasing bikes. Ah well at least I can dream). Be interesting to see if he gets a bid at $99.

AGE / VALUE:   Tool Organization posted by: Wings on 6/18/2003 at 6:04:33 AM
I am always working on my garage organization, workbench organization with the goal of having everything at arms reach and available when working on bikes.

Sheldon's color code scheme on tools works great! I have a socket mounted on a socket ratchet (color coded) and sitting in secions of PVC pipe aimed over the work bench right at me. But I found the reach too far while holding onto a part on a bike in the repair stand. So I lined the face of a drawer just under the workbench to store all the needed tools and a hanger for tools over the repair stand also. It has worked great but ............

New idea (for me): This year I have observed my Auto Mechanic and also Brake Mechanic work with a cart that moves right up to the car or even under the wheel when it is on the lift. Harbor Freight had a sale on (30 in by 16 inch wide) carts that must be about 30 inches tall. I purchased one and used it on the last three bikes that I rebuilt.
1. All my parts go in the top tray -- with the tools I am using.
2. I can sit it right under the bottom bracket -- if bearings fall -- they go into the top tray.
3. All bottom bracket part can be lubed and layed in a cooking tray on the top cart tray. It is cleaner. It is easier. It catches everything that drops. You probably never have the washers fall or little parts drop, but I do!
4. This is working out so well that my next step is to move my most basic (most used) tools to holders on the cart! So all the frequently used tools and lubes would be right next to me or in front of me as I work.

Whatever works for each of us is great! I am just sharing the cart idea because I never considered it until this year.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tool Organization posted by Rob on 6/18/2003 at 6:09:32 PM
Good topic, Wings...

Thanks for the idea...organization is a constant struggle for me...I've, at least, trained myself such that tools are always wiped clean and put away in the same spot...everytime!!! , well, almost everytime... While tools aren't always within easy reach, I can almost always find the tool I'm looking for...though if I'm working outside in the nice weather, it may mean more trips to the tool bench...Dropping small pieces is another time waster that is good to avoid.

I'm going to think about the cart idea...I guess the cart has to be small enough so it doesn't get in the way...and big enough so it will hold most of what you need...

      Tool Organization posted by John E on 6/18/2003 at 7:37:28 PM
When I converted the old garage into a family room and added the new garage, I lined the middle 50 percent of each wall with pegboard. In one section, I installed 1x2" framing and hinges to form a narrow cabinet out of two parallel pieces of pegboard, thereby tripling my tool-hanging surface area (when the cabinet doors are open). I keep floor pumps, shop vac, and other items against the wall below the pegboard, and I have two rows of open shelving above it.

I really do need to build some sort of proper bike shop stand before my Capo frame comes home from CyclArt.

   RE:   Tool Organization posted by Warren on 6/19/2003 at 10:53:33 PM
As much as I have a place for everything, my work habits are horrible and I pile, distribute, drop, pocket and misplace everything eventually. I clean up about once a week.

I solved the problem...I have two or three of almost everything. Not so difficult since the first tools I bought were mostly entry level. Now I buy the best I can find or afford. Learn from my mistakes, all you newbies out there.

I'm actually quite functional like this...it's quicker reacher for a second 10mm wrench than looking for the first one.

   RE:RE:   Tool Organization posted by JONathan on 6/20/2003 at 12:41:53 AM
Here's my setup. I broke down and got a rolling tool cart with 5 drawers and a masonite worktop with built-in organizer under the masonite slab. There are a couple trays on either side that compose a handle of sorts. Now, I took a bunch of cardboard shoeboxes and cur them down to just clear the elevations for whatever drawer they go into. Each box is fitted with duct tape for reinforcement of the sides and corners. I place similar type together in the boxes...wrenches in one box; screwdrivers another; etc. I built a 3/4" plywood box with 2x4 framework that the whole cart slides into for safe keeping. The box a slide bar lock and is chained to a fence post. The top doubles as a garden workbench...I needed that feature to "sell" the whole idea for having this monolithic structure in plain view from the kitchen window.
Sears sells the carts for about $80 on sale. They are $169 reg. price! I just was patient and got it when they went on sale. What a big difference it makes having the cart and those big drawers. I slide little parts into the trays, figure out where and what to do later with them. A Blackburn WS-1 workstand is another great thing to have. I got it at a church rummage sale in amongs a bunch of patio umbrella stuff. If it rains, I just don't do anything except emergency repairs. Can't use my Model "A" size garage for bikes, so I'm stuck outside. It's a pretty good setup except in winter weather. I tried the metal and plastic boxes for tool separation and the sound drives me nuts; the metal gets below the dewpoint, too, even in the cart. The cardboard is cushion-like and quiet. My wife keeps me supplied with replacement shoe-boxes.
Not far from "The Box" and under a tree is a bench holding up my 125 pound machinist vise. I keep it coated with silicon and covered with an old jacket. The oxide film resists rust quite well on it's own. The problem is when you get the metal cleaned of rust the "fresh " metal is a huge magnet for rust. Why a big vise? I'd get one that's able to function at less than 50% of it's limitations for the job you're doing. It is worth it. I looked at new vises and the older ones are better. I got this one in the farm country of the valley (Ca.) where you can find the old stuff at auctions. It was worth the hunt. Oh, an umbrella helps for summer weather to keep tools from getting too hot to pick up. One note about the Sears carts. I replaced the plastic casters with heavy-duty casters that are rubber and have ball-bearings. You won't regret changing the stock casters.
That's my complete setup and it blends into the yard beautifully, I think....Nice to hear the ideas you have. The pegboard plan is way cool. I'd like to try that in my garage and utility room...JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:   Tool Organization posted by Wings on 6/20/2003 at 7:15:50 AM
Jonathan --
Years ago when I was a big time wood worker I bought 5 of those Sears tool cabinets you refer to. Some have slightly different styles -- cabinets on both sides or drawers on onel side and a cabinet door with shelves behind it on the other side.

I took 4 X 4's and cut two lengths to mount under each cabinet at the ends. I then fastened heavy duty steel swivels on the 4x4;s. The 4x4's give a wider foot to prevent them tipping and also raises the cabinet so the sides clear the garage floor and the swivels are lagged into them.

Three of these are under my workbench -- they just clear the bench top. I have a Craftsman two piece tool cabinet suspended on a floating bench top that just covers the fourth cabinet. Then I have a Radial Saw anchored to the top of the fifth cabinet.

Now the beauty of this is that I can pull all three of the Sears cabinets out from under the work bench and if needed a fourth one from under the floating tool chest (hung from a wall with chains and a ledger. I then can put them all together and have a work table of various size for a major work project. They also are designed to sit behind my Table Saw and act as a support for wood that is being ripped. I have sent a door over the Table Saw with the use of these movable benches -- that are storage containers also. It gives a lot of flexibility!

My bike parts are all stored on 6 foot tall racks that are on rollers that were used to display pet items in a major pet store. They were tossing them in a dumpster so I loaded up with their help! That was a fun find!!!

I have a two car garage when I should have a 4 car garage! The next house will be two bedroom and 5 car garage!!!! One has to have ones priorities straight! Oh, and a barn out back!!!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:   Tool Organization posted by Edward in Vancover on 6/20/2003 at 2:51:42 PM
Interesting about other people's organiztion, almost makes me wish I was oraganized...
My workspace centers around a wall mounted bike stand, Dutch, I think, which was excellent value for the CDN$70 that I paid for it new. Being a scavenger at heart I get my stuff from the businesses around my work, in this case a large office furniture company. Every so often they throw out 5 or 6 steel desks, waiting for the scrap guy to come around. I take off the drawer units, and stack them up. So now I've got 8 drawer units in my garage,some in towers, some holding up my work top. For parts storage I use what I use at work, (ie the restaurant trade) Bus tubs with lids for parts, beat up 3-strap bread pans for sorting and storing parts, magnetic strip knife holders for wrenches and the like.

AGE / VALUE:   found a pile of rust... posted by: Mike on 6/18/2003 at 3:13:31 AM
Hi guys/girls I was toolin around a local junk mans back lot when a truely ugly hunk o rust jumped out at me. It says it's a Ross Custom kinda cool bike. weird frame instead of a single tube frame it's multiple smaller tubes. It has full fenders and a two (torpedo) lens headlight built into the (gastank?) Has anyone heard of this bike or have pictures I would love to bring this old bike back to life but I dont even know what year it could be. Can anyone help????

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   found a pile of rust... posted by WArren on 6/18/2003 at 3:51:02 AM
Ask the Balloon and Middleweights folks at the top of the page...they know more than we do.

AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki, Centurian, and maybe more? posted by: Elvis on 6/18/2003 at 12:18:47 AM
Hi all. I'm picking up an old Nishiki Rally road bike from an aquiantence of mine. Nothing special there, but I also found two really cool Centurians. 1 has a round headbadge too big for me. The other is my size, in black, with neat lugs and the headbadge looks like a cross. It is marked "Le mans" on the chainstay. Centurion has always struck me as a decent bike, but where does this one sit in their lineup? also ran across a nice old orange Italian bike marked "Cortina" with really neat lugs and downtube Campy shifters -- but cottered steel cranks. What's up with that? Anyone ever heard of that make before? Any info appreciated.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki, Centurian, and maybe more? posted by Tom on 6/18/2003 at 1:20:27 AM
The Centurion LeMans was from the lower end of their range, but a very decent bike and good value.

Campagnolo shifters and steel cottered cranks were not unusual on low end Italian bikes during the 70's bike boom. The original derailleurs were probably Campagnolo Valentino. While the high end Italian bikes were marvelous in the 1970's, the low end bikes were horrid performers, but still looked nice. In the 1970's the smart buyer chose Italian for high end, French for mid range and Japanese for low end. Of course, their were exceptions, but that was the general rule of thumb.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki, Centurian, and maybe more? posted by Tom on 6/18/2003 at 2:02:14 AM
Sorry Elvis, I forgot to mention the other possibility for the Cortina. It could be a high end bike from the late 1950s or early 1960's and still have Campagnolo shifters and steel, cottered cranks. My quickie assessment would be made using the rear dropouts as a guide, unless there is a frame tubing decal you forgot to mention. If the dropouts are forged Campagnolo, it's probably a higher end frame, if they are stamped, it's probably low end. What about mid-line you ask? There's no simple answer. That would take a lot more investigation!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki, Centurian, and maybe more? posted by Elvis on 6/18/2003 at 2:04:48 AM
Thanks! I wouldn't have figured to find Campagnolo on a "horrid" bike, but forwarned is forarmed. Better to find out now than after I lug it home...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki, Centurian, and maybe more? posted by Gralyn on 6/18/2003 at 2:12:46 AM
I had a Centurion Sport DLX - with the round head badge - it didn't have an alloy frame - and I believe it had typical Japanese components. I have a Centurion LeMans: Triple butted chro-mo frame, shimano exage group, aero brakes, white turbo saddle, white look clipless pedals, 1" anodized rims, quick release front and rear.....and it was the lower end? Maybe I will run across one of the higher-end models some day.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki, Centurian, and maybe more? posted by JONathan on 6/18/2003 at 2:22:57 AM
Elvis, those Le mans are cool. I have one that's been a parts donor, but I sure like the bike. The "Super" Le Mans was the top bike, but my Le Mans has SunTour's better components. I recall the shifters are "superbe", but can't recall the derailer model. I rode a Centurion all over the east side of the Sierras on dirt rodes with panniers and it was a great ride. I had bar-con shifters on it. Wish I had kept it. The ride was very smooth going without too much flex, although the panniers were causing it to noodle a bit. Now, my Bottechia is another story. It was a touring species that was built for panniers and fenders and it is my best touring bike that's a road bike. Incredibly brutal frame. If your "cortina" is a touring bike, taht's cool. The Italian rides are beefed compared to the other rides I have from that era...French and Japanese. I can get 28 inch wheels on mine! It can really move out, and I don't look like I'm working like a squirrel to keep up. The fender relief is what makes the larger wheels possible. What are you planning for that ol' "Cortina"? Is it in good shape? I have two Italian bikes and they are great. The other is a Maino...old builder from Alessandra, IT. Pure road racer, it is a fast puppy, and stiff due to the Columbus (>diameter) tubes...Nice find on that "Cortina"....JONathan

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki, Centurian, and maybe more? posted by Dennis Savage on 6/18/2003 at 6:23:39 AM
Centurion? Did someone say Centurion?
I have one. Super Lemans: from 1975 or thereabouts. "Where in the line up is it?" Does not apply to Japanese bicycles of the 70's and 80's. These are riders, they are not collectors items. (and hooray for that!) Buy 3 or 4 and take the best parts of each and put them on the best frame. I have seen Cro-Mo butted frames that have stamped dropouts without a derailer hanger. Real nice dual pivot sidepulls with areo levers on a bike with steel chainrings and steel drop bars. A 531 tubed Dawes Galaxy that weighed 30 lbs. My Super Lemans has straight guage high ten tubes but it has chrome fork ends and stays. It looks like a leopard with all the rust spots, but where the paint has come off the stays, it is shiny. It has a Suntour V-gt Lux Derailer (mid level - a gazillion bikes had those). But a Suntour SL front der. (High end). All cable guides are clamps. The stop for the Rear der is the only braze on. The standard Weimann/DiaComp (no real difference) center pull brakes. But it has the quick releases on the Cable hangers. This is important to me because they have less of a reach to the levers. If you ever see a bike in a thrift store that you might pass by, check to see if it has those cable hanger quick releases. If the bike is cheap it might be worth it to buy it just for them. They don't make them anymore. The point of this long post is to learn what is important to you and what is important to other bicycle hoarders and then judge the bike by that. I could go on and on with examples but you just ride the bikes. That is how you know what is important and what is not.
Ok then...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nishiki, Centurian, and maybe more? posted by Don on 6/19/2003 at 2:35:56 AM
Centurion Le Mans, I have 2, both 52Cm, the earlier one has the cross type headbadge, straight gauge hi ten tubes but a pretty good Japanese copy of Nervex lugs with SunTour Vgt derailler, Dia Compe centerpulls, Sun Tour longlever ratcheting stem shifters & a truly beutiful SR Apex crankset in 165mm. It had light blue metallic paint with Centurion in large Metalfoil letters. both paint & foil was flaking & peeling off. I eventually stripped & repainted it dark metallic green, added white Blumels fenders, Lyotard platform pedals, Christophe straps & a French "Pryma" brand leather saddle. It was often misidentified as a Gitane, so I added a set of Gitane decals but kept the Centurion headbadge just to confuse the issue.
The other LeMans is a later model with less ornate lugs, a SunTour Vx derailler, Shimano Altus downtube shifters, Randnnr bars & no name crankset with the round head badge. It has much better burgundy metallic paint with pinstriping & weighs less. Both are great winter rides but my "best" Centurion is the Pro Tour 15 (now an 18)I picked up a few years ago. It was Centurion's touring model which has Tange # 2 tubes, French style stays that wraparound the seat post, a lugged, fully chromed frameset & very high quality metallic paint which is still in pretty good shape after 20 years & thousands of miles. Sealed hubs, triple crank & a very sturdy/stable ride. It is my second favorite touring bike after my 1984 Specialized Expedition touring. Find em & ride em! Don

    Centurian!!! posted by Elvis on 6/22/2003 at 4:22:55 AM
Thanks all! I put short [1/4 size, i think] fenders on the Le Mans and swapped the aweful bar stem shifters for a nice pair of black Dura-Ace downtube shifters. The bike is black with only a few chips that need touching up and maybe one or two rust spots that likewise need the attention of the paintbrush. Headbadge is mint. Rides awesome up hills, and though I never thought much of fenders these little ones look cool on that black bike! I rode it just a shade under 20 miles today but then the rain got too much so I called it a day. An hour later I went out for a walk and the bridge was out. Here in the northeast U.S. we aren't having a drout this summer. Hope the weather breaks soon, I don't mind rain riding but i'd like some sun now and then too!

AGE / VALUE:   is it worth anything posted by: paul on 6/17/2003 at 10:46:22 PM
i have a original pashley delibike does anyone know a rough guide as to its value. also noted on the frame made in japan i thought they were made in stratford upon avon in england can anybody shed any light on this. thanks.

AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by: bob on 6/17/2003 at 7:06:15 PM
I have a somewhat old black Miyata that says handmade. Does anyone know anything about these bicycles?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by Elvis on 6/18/2003 at 12:17:34 AM
I find that Miyata's are very well made bikes. Your specific model I can't shed any light on, but the make is a good one. I have always wanted to get my hands on one of these bikes but every one I see is priced way outa my low budget. Don't part with it!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by Tom on 6/18/2003 at 1:26:59 AM
Bob, I have a good selection of vintage Miyata catalogs. If you can give me some more details (or pics), perhaps we can narrow things down. You may contact me directly, if you wish. Personally, I always considered Miyata to be the best of the Japanese mass production manufacturers.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by JONathan on 6/18/2003 at 4:07:33 PM
Hey, Tom. Myata made good frames. I'm interested in any specifications, details, etc. on a mid '80's "Terra Runner". Best I can find is that it wasn't their top model, but a notch below it.
I use it for heavy duty service with an off-road trailer for hauling camping gear and a river raft. It has under-chainstay U-brake; triple-butted "spline" cro-mo tubes; cro-mo forks; Shimano components with Deore friction front and indexed rear derailers and braze-ons everywhere! The low gear of 18 sp. is a granny. It rides great with a 43 inch wheel base to straighten the road. The trailer is a custom refit with 20 inch wheels. The hitch clamps onto the left rear dropout for a low center of gravity and more direct line of pull. Also, it allows for more clearance on turns and over gulleys. The bike is extremely hardy and I typically have 50 - 80 pounds on the trailer for short hauls on rough roads. I could get 150 pounds on it for blacktop riding if I wanted too. It was my winter commuter for a while, but we don't get that nasty weather with ice and snow slush here on the coast. I decided to use it for exclusive off-road to save wear on the expensive off-road tires and running gear. It must have been a top bike in the '80's world of MTB's. I know this is a vintage LW site, but there is more knowledge base here, than anywhere in my experience. Besides, it is a rigid and has a lot of the attributes of a true vintage LW, IMHO.
I think the "Ridge runner" was the Miyata premier MTB at that time...Thanks, JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by Tom on 6/18/2003 at 6:49:21 PM
JONathan,I'm always happy to help one of my "good buddies"!

I agree, the Miyata frames were an excellent balance of material, design and manufacturing. Along with Sekine, they had exceptional quality control. The frames were so consistent. I never saw a bad one. However, the fact that they were priced slightly higher than comparable Japanese models led to fewer sales. Which is too bad, because in the end, the extra dollars were generally worth it, IMHO.

Based on what you described, I'm 99.9% positve that you have a 1988 Terra Runner. 1988 was the year Miyata introduced spline tubing on their ATBs (it had been on their road bikes since 1986)and by 1989 they had ditched the rear U-brake in favour of a cantilever. It was 3rd from the top of line, below the Sky Runner and Ridge Runner. The group was Deore as you describe, with the exception of a Tange ME-SII headset. Spec'd tires were Miyata IBEX. Rims were Araya RM-20. Saddle should be a Selle Royal Mountaineer. Strong NS-3 seatpost. Nitto butted alloy bar and stem. Advertised weight was 29.5 lb.

The higher up Sky and Ridge runners both used Deore XT. The geometry was a little more competition oriented (less rake, shorter front-centre, lower bottom bracket). The Sky Runner used an aluminum frame, while the Ridge Runner used the triple butted, spline Cr-Mo tubing.

By the way, the MSR for the Terra Runner was $833 CDN (' $600.00 US). I had the price written that into the catalogue, so I must have been considering one when I bought my GT Karakoram. The reason I ended up with the GT, was because their triple triangle frame design permitted a seat stay mounted U-brake. The chain-stay mounted version tended to foul with mud and froze from spray during winter riding.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by bob on 6/18/2003 at 7:23:09 PM
The model of my Miyata is a "Three Ten" It says handmade in Japan engraved on it. Has anyone ever heard of a three ten?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by Tom on 6/18/2003 at 10:11:25 PM
Bob, the 310 was the bottom of Miyata's line of Competition/Fitness bikes. However, don't equate "bottom of the line" with the usual derogatory terms in this case. Miyata had a Pro Racing Series which usually consisted of three bicycles. Then came the Competition/Fitness bikes with another 3 models. They were pretty much middle of the range models, intended for serious cyclists or beginning racers. Usually found with Shimano 105 equipment, the 310 model evolved into the 312 in 1987. To narrow the year down further, I'll need some specific equipment descriptions.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by bob on 6/19/2003 at 1:09:18 AM
The front and rear deraillers are Suntour. The brakes say dia-comp,the front crank says Custom, and the handle bars say Sakai Custom Road Champion.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by Tom on 6/19/2003 at 2:04:16 AM
Bob, based on your descriptions, it appears to be from the period 1980-1982.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by bob on 6/19/2003 at 3:03:27 AM
Thanks Tom. I think it's Suntour Vx.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Miyata (handmade) posted by JONathan on 6/19/2003 at 4:48:02 AM
Beaucoup thanks, Tom! I appreciate the definitive word on my camping/rough touring ride. It is the most comfortable riding bike in my line-up. The big 2.25" tires and relaxed geometry let you glide along like a big ol' Buick. What's woerd is I swap the seat post back and forth with my foul weather commuter Giant "nutra" cross-bike! Third place ain't too bad in the Miyata line, IMHO. It definitely is not a performance focused ride, but for getting in and back out intact, it is unbeatable. I am considering Kevlar tires, because the sharp granite rocks and lava bed roads really chip out the rubber knobbies. I guess $60 for the "terra runner" was a good price. I debated about getting it 5 years back, except I really needed a touring bike that can be repaired in remote regions if necessary, and that was heavy duty for pulling the trailer. Myt wife calls it my motorcycle without a motor....Thanks, again, buddy!..Cheers, JONathan

MISC:   What's the proper way to ship bicycles posted by: bob on 6/17/2003 at 7:02:18 PM
I would like to know the best way to ship a bicycle.

   RE:MISC:   What's the proper way to ship bicycles posted by Mike on 6/17/2003 at 8:02:11 PM
The cheapest and most reliable way is by Amtrak. And they will provide the box for a small fee.

    What's the proper way to ship bicycles posted by John E on 6/17/2003 at 11:01:02 PM
Good recommendation. I would also recommend getting friendly with your local bike shop and asking for a leftover manufacturer's shipping box.

   RE:MISC:   What's the proper way to ship bicycles posted by David on 6/18/2003 at 8:26:24 PM
Amtrak is cheap, but it's only station-to-station. If you're off their routes, you're SOL. For door-to-door, I've had good luck with both UPS and Fed Ex. Fed Ex is somewhat cheaper and I've heard complaints about UPS' handling of boxes, but I've had no bad experiences myself with them.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane TdF posted by: Rob on 6/17/2003 at 4:47:59 PM
I just have to tell you all...once again...about my Gitane TdF. For most of last week it was either rainy or threatening, so I was using my wet weather Nishiki. Yesterday, and this AM, I was back on the TdF...What a terrific little sweetie...

If you get the chance and the price is right...don't pass one up...you won't be disappointed. It's a terrific all round commuting bike; responsive, nimble... Mine still needs some tweaking, though. It has Titlist derailleurs which aren't working all that well...I think actually they are worn out. The shifting isn't great either. The crank is good...a fully ISO Stronglight...an early 80's model of some sort, that I scrounged from somewhere. The freewheel is a 5, some sort of Shimano...it has a good "bail out" cog, probabaly 28t., which I need for the few steep hills I encounter on my commute. I think a SunTour 6 would likely be a good improvement...any opinions??? The rims, Araya, are quite good, but are a 27x1 1/4 touring type rim...I think I would like to put on 700-23's or something similar...opinions???...but that will likely mean more flats...the brakes as I have said before are just super...MAFAC Competition centerpulls...and very little squealing...maybe I'm just lucky.

Gitane TdF...definitely a keeper...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane TdF posted by Tom on 6/17/2003 at 6:59:38 PM
Rob, I've always considered the Titlist to be a darn good derailleur. I am curious as to the nature of the shifting problems. If it's either high or low gear, the problem may be that you are simply running out of capacity. The Titlist had a capacity of 28T and accepted a maximum freewheel size of 28T.

A Suntour Ultra 6 would probably be worthwhile, if you can find one in good condition. If your talking a normal 6 speed freewheel, that means cold setting the stays 4-6 mm wider, re-aligning the dropouts and installing a longer axle and quick release. This is not a big job, providing you have the proper tools. However, if I was going that route, I'd opt for an Ultra 7 freewheel, if you can find one.

700C wheels are always a good move in my opinion, unless you're want to keep it original. In general, they are lighter, stronger and you have so many tire options available. The brakes should handle the small difference in rim diameter.

      Gitane TdF posted by John E on 6/17/2003 at 11:05:47 PM
I cannot speak for the Titlist rear derailleur, but I have always liked the Titlist front I put on my UO-8. As for the proposed rim size conversion, first measure the slots in your brake calipers to determine whether you could lower the brake shoes by 4 mm.

An alternative to an ultra6 freewheel is a Sachs 7-speed with the high cog removed.

      Gitane TdF posted by John E on 6/17/2003 at 11:09:05 PM
Rob, I know what you mean about the ride quality of classic steel French frames. I have always thought my 1971 Nishiki SemiPro, despite its double-butted Ishiwata CrMo frame, felt dead and mushy compared to my basic Peugeot UO-8. After the Nishiki frame broke, I found a pair of French Sugino BB cups and happily rode a UO-8 with parts salvaged from the Nishiki.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane TdF posted by JONathan on 6/18/2003 at 3:36:28 AM
Keep! Got that right, Rob. Wish it was mine....JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane TdF posted by Rob on 6/18/2003 at 5:50:09 PM
Tom, I took a good look at the derailleurs, shifter and freewheel. The front derailleur (Titlist) seems OK...I just need to fine tune the limit screws a little better. The rear der. (Titlist) shifts on to all the cogs OK (the big one is 28t.), but the cage seems to bend in towards the wheel quite a bit, except on the two smallest cogs...the result is a lot of fussing and fretting on the pulley wheels, particularly the lowest one, and the whole derailleur, except the mounting pivot, seems generally loose. As well, there seems to be a fair bit of overshifting, then trimming required to get things to settle down somewhat. I think the shifter isn't too good, I could replace it with something a little tighter...say a SunTour "PowerShift". In comparison the SunTour AR derailleurs and "PowerShift" on my Nishiki Royal respond crisply and precisely with little need for overshifting and minimal trimming...

Whatever insights you can provide...Thanks...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane TdF posted by Tom on 6/19/2003 at 3:01:55 AM
Rob, it sounds like you may have a bent derailleur hanger or dropout. The bike may have been dropped onto the derailleur. The overshifting and trimming would be worse on the large cogs because the cage is near vertical and the tension wheel is at it's farthest point from the origin of the bend, making the misalignment very visible and the effect pronounced. In the small cogs the cage is closer to horizontal, effectively shortening the vertical dimension of the cage and thus minimizing the effect of the bend. There is a tool made specifically to measure and adjust for this, but it's primarily for index shifting bikes, where the alignment is more critical. On the old friction systems just bend the hanger or dropout ear until the cage appears vertical to the old eyeball. Good luck!

You may get unsatisfactory results using a Suntour lever, but it's worth a try. As I seem to recall, there was a marked difference in the size of the lever drum. This will affect the amount of cable travel for lever swing.

If you need friction shifters, my LBS has clamp style Shimano models left over from the early 80's. There are about 10 pair available at $10.00 CDN per pair.

I had some afterthoughts on the conversion to 700C wheels. You may find you loose some of the cushy ride quality unless you go to low TPI, 32C tires. Remember, those old 27x1.25 tires were very wide, relatively low pressure and had low TPI. That all adds up to a compliant carass and cushy ride. Unless you select carefully, modern tires will harshen the ride significantly! Personally, I feel the significant factor in the ride quality of the vintage bikes are the tires. Oh, I can just imagine the can of worms that I just opened with that comment! It probably deserves a new thread.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane TdF posted by Rob on 6/19/2003 at 3:59:15 AM
Thanks Tom,

As usual, some great insights...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane TdF posted by JONathan on 6/19/2003 at 5:13:01 AM
You got a problem if that jockey wheel takes the chain into the spokes. You can straighten the sides of the cage, but I take them apart and use a bench vice with brass jaw inserts (or another material that's softer than the cage metal alloy. I wouldn't mess with them, if you can replace them with undamaged parts from a good derailer of the exact same model. A new cable might help. You can run it for a while, then readjust for the stretching that will occur with a new cable. The old cables can be pretty mushy when near their maximum service life. It just keeps stretching and stretching and stretching....Eventually, it breaks.Good luck, JONathan

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rust removal posted by: John on 6/17/2003 at 3:14:57 PM
Hi, could I have some suggestions on removing light rust. I have a '73 Condor frame made of 531 DB. The paint job overall is in excellent condition including the red panel on the seat tube and decals. However, the tob tube and seat tube have a few light scratches from the brake cable clips and a pump clamp, I believe. As the paint and decals are excellent, I do not want to re-paint, but don't want the rust to take over the frame. What should I do to remove and then coat after cleaning? Thanks in advance

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rust removal posted by Dave on 6/17/2003 at 5:24:58 PM
Try #000 Steel Wool and WD-40.I have used Automotive touch up primer, paint & clearcoat with some success to re-coat.Good Luck!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rust removal posted by Edward in Vancouver on 6/18/2003 at 1:20:55 AM
I'm still bleating "Oxalic acid" two years after I first used it. It's also known as wood bleach, and is available in crystal form at Woodworking supply shops. It eats rust but is very gentle--many drycleaners "in the know" use it to remove rust stains from clothing. I keep a big pickling jar full of it on my work bench and de-rust small parts by simply immersing and then flushing with fresh water after 10 15 minutes. I've also injected it with a needle ( oh, yeah, Vancouver...) into hollow box sections of English 26 x 13/8 rims to remove the rolling rust trapped in there.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rust removal posted by Wings on 6/18/2003 at 6:03:04 AM
Don't forget the possibility of using nail polish to touch up those spots. Depending on the color -- it could be an easy match. I just used black nail polish on one bike and you can't tell where the top tube scrathes were -- it just leveled out and blended in. I also just touched up two blue bikes with blue nail polish with similar results. Black, blue, red are really easy. Yellow, green ... are not so easy to match.

Don't forget to wax when finished. The colored wax by Turtle Wax really does a great job on color restoration!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Motobecane racing bike. posted by: Gabriele on 6/17/2003 at 1:11:54 PM
I have a womans Motobecane racing bike, mostly original. It was actually used by my mom to race with. Well it has been handed down to me, just because I would not let my mom "throw it away". I want some history and possibly a rough guestimate on how much it's worth. I don't know much about it, but if you ask me something, I'll definately look for some kind of name on the parts. I know my mom said something about the derailers being special, but that's all that stands out in my mind. If anyone could help me with this, or just want to share stories I'd appreciate it.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Motobecane racing bike. posted by Oscar on 6/17/2003 at 10:06:01 PM
Don't let go of a French race bike. Motobecane made high-end to low-end bikes, but even the lowest end was darn decent. Mom remembers something special about the components. Maybe Campagnolo, maybe Simplex? Look at the bike and take down the frame's model name, and all the names on the brakes, crank, and derailleurs. Report back here, and we'll tell you more than you want to know about the bike. I've found that folks round here can talk about Motos for hours.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Motobecane racing bike. posted by dragondaemonchic@netscape.net on 6/19/2003 at 3:13:19 AM
Ok here is what I found on the bike, please don't mind my lamen terms for some of the parts! I'm not to good with it.

frame says Built with 1020 tubes, forks,& stays
derailers say suntour GT with a number marked 4532
gear shifters say suntour too.
front gear chain guide (?) says Compe V
the pedal arm says Marquee STRONGLIGHT Deposee
Both front and rear brakes and levers all say MAFAC "Racer"
Handle bars say Pivo made in France
wheel tension switches say MM Antona

I hope someone can make heads or tails of this. The tires/rims are probably aftermarket. I know she used to have the lace tires, but she used the bike for MANY years, and replaced the tires, I'm guessing you might have to replace the rims when you do that. I know when she had it serviced when I was really young, the repair shop tried to steel the derailer/shifter assembly, and she almost hung the guy for it. She did get them back, thank goodness, but that was a big mistake for that guy.
Well please help me out if oyu know anything, I really want to know more about it.

AGE / VALUE:   early 70's Stella?? posted by: don on 6/17/2003 at 5:17:18 AM
Hey there, I just acquird a Stella bicycle. it's in great shape and I am trying to decide what to do with it. and what it's worth. It has Campy derailluers, Dura ace downtube shifters. diacompe/grancompe brakes, suntour superbe cranks and a campy hreadset. any idea what it's worth and how to figure out it's age? it's got very sweet lugwork and incredibly lite. thnaks, don.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   early 70's Stella?? posted by Gralyn on 6/17/2003 at 2:50:34 PM
Where are you folks finding this stuff? Sounds like might have something pretty good there.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   early 70's Stella?? posted by Dave on 6/17/2003 at 5:29:03 PM
It's an old French make,named for the original founders mother.Go to www.classicrendezvous.com under the France section for more info.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   early 70's Stella?? posted by Dave on 6/17/2003 at 5:29:30 PM
It's an old French make,named for the original founders mother.Go to www.classicrendezvous.com under the France section for more info.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   early 70's Stella?? posted by Tom on 6/18/2003 at 12:53:45 AM
Nornally, I'd try using the date codes on the components, but that's such an eclectic mix that I suspect the original owner did a lot of upgrading. Refer to the Vintage-Trek site for locating and decoding the manufacturers date codes.

However, you are probably correct in assuming that it is a 70's model, as that appears to be the period of Stella's strongest presence in North America. Stellas are relatively rare, so I'd keep it. They also have a nice history.

To add a little more to their history, Stella started manufacturing in 1909. Owned by the Fontenau family, their glory days were the 1950's when Louison Bobet won the 1953 & 1954 Tour de France on Stella bicycles. By the 1970's they were producing about 25,000 frames/bicycles a year. Top line models in the mid 70's was the SX-76 & SX-75. Their most popular bike was propbably the SX-73 which was glowingly reviewed in the Nov. 74 Bicycling. It retailled for $260, used Durifort tubing, Stronglight 49 crankset, HUret Challenger derailleurs, Weinmann 610 brakes and Mavis tubular rims on Normandy hubs.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   early 70's Stella?? posted by DannyJoe on 6/18/2003 at 3:01:48 AM
I have a Stella built bicycle from the early '70's which was sold as an ARCTIC bicycle by the Arctic Cat snowmoble dealership's. Simplex derailleur's steel Rigida rim's, basic bike-boom bike, brown paint with black painted lug's and white cable housing's, unusual little ride.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Arctic Cat Stella posted by Dennis Savage on 6/18/2003 at 6:57:07 AM
How many of those were made? That is a rhetorecal question. I bet it was one per dealership. Not many. That is a collectors item.
ok then...

WANTED:   Reynolds 531 decals! posted by: Jim on 6/17/2003 at 1:36:45 AM
Anyone know where to get them?

   RE:WANTED:   Reynolds 531 decals! posted by Warren on 6/17/2003 at 2:40:26 AM
There's a set on ebay right now... check ebay seller hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk

   RE:WANTED:   Reynolds 531 decals! posted by JONathan on 6/17/2003 at 5:21:25 AM
Try Nick_at_Lloyds site. They have some Reynolds decals.

   Reynolds 531 decals posted by John E on 6/17/2003 at 1:54:26 PM
CyclArt has a stash, but they may be reserving them for their repaint and restoration jobs.

    Reynolds 531 decals posted by John E on 6/17/2003 at 1:56:29 PM
When I worked at Bikecology, we noticed that the first thing to go on any PX-10 was the French language Reynolds 531 decal. Placed at the top of the seat tube, they were particularly vulnerable to mechanics who failed to tighten the shop stand clamp securely.

AGE / VALUE:   raleigh professional posted by: John on 6/17/2003 at 1:18:31 AM
There are 3 old Raleigh Pros on sale on ebay. 2 of the three seem to be almost identical and both have nearly identical bids in the $300s. I would like to know the maximum reasonable bid.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   raleigh professional posted by Skip Echert on 6/18/2003 at 1:37:57 AM
Hello John -
IMHO - A Raleigh Pro, all Campy N. or Super Record, in good shape, typically goes for $600+. With mixed components the price is less. A good frame only typically would go for $300. cheers, skip