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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by: Randy on 8/13/2003 at 11:47:23 AM
I have a question if someone can help me here, I recently bought a Peugeot PX-10 frame and I would like to put the bike together and have it as original as possible,the frame is probably around a 72-74 model my guess, the thing that I have seen so far is it looks like the PX-10 used simplex prestige derailleurs but with some variants from some of the ones I have seen, I know that they had a different bolt to attach to the dropout then say the hanger type that bolted on like the cheap bikes, but what was the difference if any in the derailleurs that came on a PX-10 compared to say a U 08, I was not old enough back in those days to get to see these bikes so I am hoping someone can give me some info on this, I pretty much have been able to figure out just about what type of components I should use on the PX-10 I may just end up putting the bike together with stuff that is close to what it should have although I would like to get back to as original as possible if anyone could also give me a run down on the complete components the bike should have would help also thanks. Randy

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by Tom on 8/13/2003 at 1:56:02 PM
I guess that I lucked out on this one. I brought two books to re-read on our trip to Florida & one of them has partial specs for the 1973 PX10E. The derailleurs were Simplex Prestige 637 Luxe, which are the same as those used on the less expensive Peugeots except for the rear derailleur's frame attachment. Brakes were Mafac Racer. Hubs were Normandy Luxe Competition, large flange, with Simplex quick release. Rims were MAVIC Monthery. Tires were Hutchinson tubular. Crankset was Stonglight 93. Saddle was Brooks Pro.

I know I have complete specs at home and can forward them in about two weeks if need be, however I'm sure that others will be able to fill in the missing info before then.

One thing to note is that the manufacturers were experiencing severe part shortages during this period and it was not usual to find bicycles with parts other than those specified. However, where possible, manufacturers tried to ensure tht the upper end bicycles received the spec'd parts. The substitiutions were more common on lower end bikes.

      Peugeot PX-10 posted by John E on 8/13/2003 at 2:29:17 PM
I remember early 1970s PX-10s with the very similar, but somewhat fancier-looking Simplex Criterium derailleurs. The Normandy Luxe Competition HF hubs and Mavic rims are definitely correct. Also, I read that although the Brooks Pro saddle was standard on American, and perhaps British, export PX-10s, an Ideale saddle was used on the Continent.

(My 50K-mile Brooks Pro saddle, which currently graces my 1959 Capo, came from "Mr. Supergo's" 1972 PX-10.)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by Tom on 8/13/2003 at 5:25:45 PM
John E., it's possible that the Criterium derailleur was spec'd during some model years, or that it was a substitution. The limited documentation that I have on hand definitely states (and shows) a Prestige on the 1973 model. I wish I was at home, where I have complete specs for the whole Peugeot line during this period. I also have a Criterium sitting in a box. Offhand, I recall a white label versus red, and pulleys that used ball bearings instead of bushings. There are other minor differences, but I wouldn't want to state them without comparing the two, side by side and having my facts straight.

The puzzling thing for me about the Peugeot PX10 was that it never was a never a truly fine bike. Most other French manufacturers (Gitane, Mercier, Motobecane & Jeunet)offered Campagnolo Nuovo Record equipped bikes. Even if you support the oft quoted argument that Peugeot was being loyal to the French components manufacturers, this argument fails to hold water. They continued to spec Prestige derailleurs when the Criterium and the all metal LJ series were available. Another instance was their continued use of Racer brakes, when Mafac had the 2000 model available. I don't know if Peugeot wanted to wait a couple years until the new components proved themselves, or they were just using the Peugeot name to be able to offer a little less and pocket a little more. I suspect the latter, as Peugeot was definitely the status symbol bike during the 70's bike boom, at least as far as Joe Public was concerned.

This is not to say the PX10 was not a quality bike. Without doubt, it was a good value. But you have to consider it for what it actually was, a bicyle intended for the lower end of the high end market. Basically, they took the best tubing and hung mostly mid-range components on it. I always found this approach puzzling for what was suppossedly top of the line bike.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by Chuck Schmidt on 8/13/2003 at 7:00:06 PM
Here's a great resource of Peugeot catalog (1929-1980) scans by Oscar Casander:

From my links page on my web site:

      Peugeot PX-10 posted by John E on 8/13/2003 at 7:41:02 PM
Tom, on a limited budget, I would want the best frame I could get, with compromises on the components, because I could always upgrade the latter. The PX-10 actually was good enough to win a few Tours de France; even though Campag. and even SunTour had better derailleurs, how much difference did that really make in a race? The Mavic rims, the Stronglight cranks, and the Reynolds 531 frame were world-class. The Normandy Luxe Competition hubs, though far less durable than their Campag. equivalents, were certainly adequate when new.

There is something to be said about building a marque mystique, under which the PX-10 is so often apparently overvalued. Peugeot's classy, attractive decal and paint graphics probably helped, as well.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by Tom on 8/13/2003 at 10:37:23 PM
John E., I agree with your comments, to an extent. The heart of a bike is undoubtedly the frame and, given a limited budget, the PX10 was a very good choice. Similar models were offered by other French manufacturers, notably Gitane's Tour du France. But why didn't Peugeot have something better? The other manufacturer's did. This is what puzzles me.

In general, the French bikes always seemed somewhat fragile to me. They put the emphasis of lightness. Now this is fine in the TDF, where the bikes are rebuilt every day and unlimited supplies of replacement parts are available. But in the real world, I expect a better degree of durability with a top of the line bicycle. Campagnolo had this in spades and set the standard. As you pointed out, some of the French components were excellent, notably the Stronlight and TA cranks, Simplex's LJ derailleurs, Huret's Jubilee and Satri Gallet's lovely seatpost. I guess that reduced life span is OK, if you're planning on upgrading later, but I still find it puzzling in a bicycle that was marketed as a top of the line, pro model.

   French fragility posted by John E on 8/13/2003 at 11:44:08 PM
Tom, I certainly agree with you concerning the fragility of French components. I have bent the axle on a Normandy Luxe Competition FRONT hub, cracked the chainstay on a Peugeot UO-8, and read about AVA's "stem of death." I have never bent a Campag. (or even Ofmega) axle or worn out a Campag. (or even Ofmega) bearing race. I am still using original 1959 Campag. downtube shift levers; I doubt that many well-used Simplex levers of the same vintage are still intact.

Having written that, I do observe that I have heard of more crank breakage problems with Campag. than with Stronglight or TA.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by JONathan on 8/13/2003 at 11:55:47 PM
I don't mean to jump in the middle of this discussion, but I didn't know where else to post that, Tom, you had posted a complete listing of Peugeots back in may.
It's "count=28", at the present time. I kept track of that post as it was very informative. It was May 28, 2003 to place it into definitive context...maybe that;s better than "count".
I have a Simplex on my Maino road racer. It is very light and I'm surprised at it holding up during a period wherein I was pushing hard. Shifts real good, too. You could get 3 for the price of a Campy, I'd say. Maybe that was part of the argument to stay away from Campy.
My personal opinion, which is of no particular significance, is Peugeot was/is "big" business, whereas the competitors were scratching more to make get market share. I think that Peugeot really knew what they were doing, then. I wonder how my early '80's Fuji Team would compare to a PX-10 in performance.
Sorry to bust in...JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by Randy on 8/14/2003 at 8:04:47 AM
Hi all thank you all for the replies to my questions here, I had one more question here since my local shop is too new also to know this, now I have not tried to remove the fixed cup on the frame and I am not shure since French Threading and Swiss are identical except for the fixed cup which the French is right hand the Swiss left hand what was the threading on the PX-10 I am asking because before I put force on the fixed cup to remove it I want to make shure Iam going in the right direction to not damage something, so far looks like what I expected when I first started looking at pictures of PX-10 bikes on the net here that most of the componentry was like what I thought, is interesting to me also that they never used Campagnolo components on such a good frame in those days but I could also see the cost factor as well and I guess I would have rather been able to afford a great bike and then maybe upgrade later in those days myself if I would have been old enough to won such a machine ounce again thank you all as I appreaciate getting answers so quickly to my question here.Randy

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by Randy on 8/14/2003 at 8:05:06 AM
Hi all thank you all for the replies to my questions here, I had one more question here since my local shop is too new also to know this, now I have not tried to remove the fixed cup on the frame and I am not shure since French Threading and Swiss are identical except for the fixed cup which the French is right hand the Swiss left hand what was the threading on the PX-10 I am asking because before I put force on the fixed cup to remove it I want to make shure Iam going in the right direction to not damage something, so far looks like what I expected when I first started looking at pictures of PX-10 bikes on the net here that most of the componentry was like what I thought, is interesting to me also that they never used Campagnolo components on such a good frame in those days but I could also see the cost factor as well and I guess I would have rather been able to afford a great bike and then maybe upgrade later in those days myself if I would have been old enough to won such a machine ounce again thank you all as I appreaciate getting answers so quickly to my question here.Randy

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by Randy on 8/14/2003 at 8:05:07 AM
Hi all thank you all for the replies to my questions here, I had one more question here since my local shop is too new also to know this, now I have not tried to remove the fixed cup on the frame and I am not shure since French Threading and Swiss are identical except for the fixed cup which the French is right hand the Swiss left hand what was the threading on the PX-10 I am asking because before I put force on the fixed cup to remove it I want to make shure Iam going in the right direction to not damage something, so far looks like what I expected when I first started looking at pictures of PX-10 bikes on the net here that most of the componentry was like what I thought, is interesting to me also that they never used Campagnolo components on such a good frame in those days but I could also see the cost factor as well and I guess I would have rather been able to afford a great bike and then maybe upgrade later in those days myself if I would have been old enough to won such a machine ounce again thank you all as I appreaciate getting answers so quickly to my question here.Randy

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by Tom on 8/14/2003 at 1:19:40 PM
Three suggestions and one salvation:

1) Stronglight had two basic styles of fixed cups, one with 2 flats and one with 8 flats. On the 8 flat cups, a French thread is denoted by a single ring cut into the surface while a Swiss thread has no rings. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any designator system on the cups with 2 flats.

2) If you look into the bottom bracket from the adjustable cup side, the fixed cup threads may be cut far enough into the bottom bracket shell for you to determine the thread direction. A good light source and a dental mirror make this task much easier. Don't forget to compensate for the image inversion due to the mirror.

3) Even on an installed fixed cup, an extra 1/16 turn should not damage the threads. Normally it is easier to tighten an installed fixed cup, than loosen it. Once you have overcome the static friction and made that small turn, back it off. It should then be become evident which direction is correct.

4) In the event that the thread is damaged and cannot be salvaged by chasing, the shell can always be reamed and rethreaded to accept an Italian bottom bracket.

      Peugeot PX-10 BB threading posted by John E on 8/14/2003 at 4:24:13 PM
If your PX-10 is from the early 1970s, it is definitely French-threaded. My 1980 PKN-10 is Swiss-threaded. Unfortunately, I do not know precisely when Peugeot finally "got it right [left?]."

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by freespirit on 8/15/2003 at 2:03:01 AM
Did anyone notice that some of the bikes in the catalogs that Chuck Schimdt mentioned have bells or ringers on there stems (Some of them PX-10s). I think the catalogs are from holland. Is this a tradition there or a regulation similar to putting reflectors on bikes in the US (Raleigh PRO for example).

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Tom on 8/13/2003 at 1:15:35 AM
It seems as though my life is measured through my experiences in cycling. Last Thursday, I had another one and it was not pleasant. I was riding up the street and the next thing I remember I am kissing the asphalt with a blazing pain in the area of my right shoulderblade. A lady in a car reported she had seen me swerve to avoid a car door that opened. Personally, I don't remember and there is some question as to whether the car door hit me. However, after the whack it sustained, it's time for a new helmet.

Regardless, I now have a broken rib. To compound matters, things happened the day before I was to leave for Florida to see a specialist about some unresolved medical issues. There was no question of delaying the trip, so I suffered the 2000 km drive from Canada to Florida. Unfortunately, the combination of injury and medication limited the assessment the doctor could perform and some of it cannot be rescheduled before my return.

So here I sit, in Florida, unsure of my condition, unable to ride, run or swim and unable to accompany my 10 year old son on the myriad of rides at the local theme parks. There are no bikes to work on and even if there were, the necessary tools are not at hand.

So, I sit on the internet and monitor the Old Roads traffic. I look at the posts and know that I have the answers to many of the questions, but they lay within my documentation files, 2000 km away.

There's no point to my rambling, other than to vent a little frustation and express how important a part of life a simple, two-wheeled invention can be. FYI, the bike, a 1990 Rocky Mountain Hammer, came through the incident unscathed, it's future vintage value undiminished.

   Get Well Soon!   posted by John E on 8/13/2003 at 2:58:40 AM
Thanks for posting, Tom. Get well soon! Motorists may get mad at us for leaving a distance from parked cars, but we do so with good reason. I was doored once, with much milder consequences, but swore "never again."

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by TT on 8/13/2003 at 4:56:44 AM
That Story has a familiar ring to it, I remember, once we were mountain biking on the Madidi Trail of the Amazon Jungle; plugging away swamp after swamp, you know how it is, when you off road bike, and you can get use to crossing on logs, I came down on this one stream; I was on my Red Diamondback Topanga, packing a good clip for the trail, I imagine, 18 mph, when at the last moment, I realized, that was no log, the one time I'm leading our group of 11, at that last moment, no log but none other than Caiman Crocodilus, your South American Crocodile, luckily, a few seconds and feet still separated us and I was able to veer to the left on an embankment, vaulted myself as best I could and came smack down on to the other side in some shallow water and rocks, but the impact twisted my red long horn handlebars a bit, in fact, that's what my ribs hit and I about had the breath knocked out of me, I pedalled to a safe distance, before I turned around and was able to warn the rest of the group, about 30 feet behind me to halt. That's all making a long story short. My bones weren't broken, I didn't know they could be so hard, but I wouldn't want to do that again. That night, our guide, was able to make a mild potion from some of the local plants, for me to place on my chest like a compress, to ease the pain. As happened, I suffered from a pretty bad bruise for about 3 weeks. Are you sure, you suffered a broken rib. You must have gone to see a doctor. I'm sure I would have, if we hadn't been kilometers from the nearest town.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by JONathan on 8/13/2003 at 6:08:04 AM
Well, I must admit that's much more glamourus tha getting "doored". The "event horizon" reaction time is inversley proportional to velocity, which is why when I get the "spider patrol", I go slow as an ice-cream wagon. I've seen big ol' Timber rattlers in the middle of the singletracks. I saw a guy disappear from my view after being doored. He was about 30 yards ahead on this worst of all streets...4 lanes and stacked parking the whole length. He was helmeted, which saved his life, I would guess. His bell was rung real hard. Although he appeared "OK", I suspect there was some closed-head injury. I rarely venture that route, but I have developed a paranoia about parallel parked cars during the past 5 years due to two major developments in the auto industry. The first was the head-rest that makes it hard to tell if there is a person seated in the front seat, which there usually isn't, and so I got to where I'd assume there wasn't one...which of course can have only one possible outcome, given enough exposure. The second is completely insidious. The dark tinted glass makes it virtually impossible to tell if there is a person seated in the drivers seat from a rear approach. At least with a head-rest alone, you can see some movement when close, and evasion is possible. The dark-tinted glass was not a product developed for bicyclist safety. Usually, it;s a SUV, which makes it tougher to evade since they're all puffed out into the road leaving little room to squeak by with a margin of safety. If you ever have trued to back out of parking spot with one of those parked next to your car (or truck) you can get a good idea of what I'm saying. Tom, it could have been worse. I'm just happy you survived. With a busted helmut, you probably got a nasty concussion, too. I hate those headaches that creep up after the adrenaline subsides. Take care. I'm overdue for a crash. I averaged about one a year, but haven't dumped it yet in two years. set-downs don't count.JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Dave on 8/13/2003 at 2:27:51 PM
I alway noticed that cyclists who ride in more "Urban" areas always ride farther out from the curb than others and now I include myself in that group. I've struck cars 4 times but in each case I was cut-off not doored,(no serious injury either).

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Ken on 8/13/2003 at 6:30:28 PM
As I've gotten older (52) I'm more militant about behaving like a car. I don't ride on the white line any more, unless I think I'm about to die; if you stay left enough that they have to cross the line to pass, they use the other lane. Best wishes Tom- it's probably a losing battle, but don't give up the street.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Rob on 8/13/2003 at 6:52:30 PM

Get well soon...we wouldn't want to lose your valuable input...:) I never been 'doored', but I've seen it happen to others...and I'll reluctantly admit that I actually 'doored' a cyclist once...in Ottawa, in the mid 80's...fortunately it was on a hill...it was a middle aged guy riding very slowly...he was really angry...but didn't appear to be hurt, and seemed to forgive me after a couple of minutes...I guess I was sufficiently apologetic. Last year, in Vancouver, a 40+ year old cyclist coming fast down a hill was killed after being 'doored'...We have to take car doors seriously...and it's not enough to expect drivers to always be watching for cyclist going by...far better to to stay at least far enough out to be able to react...or choose a better route, if possible...Other things to watch are dangling straps and cords...a few years ago I saw a close call...a woman riding close to the parked vehicles had a loose strap snag one of those large pickup truck side mirrors...almost yanked her right off the bike....

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Keith on 8/13/2003 at 7:47:47 PM
I'm sorry for your misfortune. I hope that your accident doesn't keep you off the bike for long, and that your specialist will clear up your medical issues in the near future.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by luke on 8/13/2003 at 10:17:09 PM
hey tom,
sorry for your incident and a speedy recovery!!
i took a full over the handle bars fall sunday as i ventured into a constuction site to try my one and only
new m/bike.i tried to go down a 10 foot side to side creek
and make it to the other side,i didnt.on the 3rd try,i was
a muddy mess ,sweating and very dissipointed cycleist!!!!
thorns in my front tire the size of dimes.[now flat]!!
ive recovered now[pride],but you take care.in my 34 years
ive never been doored,but you know,its allways right around
the corner...................................

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/13/2003 at 10:50:57 PM
Sorry to hear about the accident!
Thoughts are with you and wishing you a speedy recovery.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Huret Derailleurs posted by: Rob on 8/13/2003 at 1:12:01 AM
Here's another one of those interesting Japanese sites:


...a 'Huret' gallery...front and rear ders.; shifters, plus a few Simplex and Campy items...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Huret Derailleurs posted by TT on 8/13/2003 at 5:32:10 AM

In spite of all the Oriental Characters on this page; one can find quite a few interesting items at this Suntour Museum, pictures and all. Say, like the Mighty Shifters I have enjoyed.

Sorry, right off your link, did not work for me, I hope the above does. If OldRoads doesn't already link to it, it might merit consideration.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Huret Derailleurs posted by David on 8/13/2003 at 4:48:30 PM
Note that the Japanese site actually has a tilde in its URL, not the single quote mark that the Oldroads site always substitutes.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Huret Derailleurs posted by Rob on 8/13/2003 at 6:19:19 PM
Thanks David,

I remember running into that problem before...for those of you who are interested..it's a good site...substitute the ' with a tilde (under the 'Esc'(escape) key upper left...at least on my keyboard). Otherwise a Google search using key words, Huret +"super touring"...it'll be near the top...

MISC:   License (point of info) posted by: TT on 8/13/2003 at 12:47:46 AM
I read quite a few times, something about "the dancing chain" and had to get to the bottom of it, and I see it is a book. Looks like Robert Van Der Plas' publishing site at www.cyclepublishing.com/ and I have read quite a few of his books. I really like, sometimes, what seems his more relaxed attitude in writing and insight. A lot of authors are out there, I have probably forgotten some I have read.

This is kind of a point of info: Robert Van Der Plas wrote once, if the police, ever stop you as a Cyclists, whatever, don't show them your drivers license, you could get a ticket, which would push up your insurance payments. Fair Enough.

Well, I found myself in that situation, and chose not to give the police officer, any hassle when he asked for my drivers license. But I queried some friends of mine about this. They said, well, if one refuses to give the officer one's license, well, is one lying? what would one say? would you be breaking the law, if you lied, and said you didn't have your drivers license? cause as a cyclist, you would probably want to have some identification with you, in case of an emergency. Interesting point.

My english is not perfect. I hope what I wrote is understandable. I also, realize, to some extent, this seems to be offtopic, but some subjects on this board, a real enjoyment to read.

Mr. Van Der Plas is also, known, besides being an author, for such things, as being an expert witness concerning cycling matters, the law, etcetera

   identification posted by John E on 8/13/2003 at 3:02:32 AM
You are required to identify yourself, but you certainly are not required to carry or possess a driver's license to ride a bicycle. To protect my insurance premium rate and driving record, I plan to use my U.S. passport if I ever get stopped again as a pedestrian or cyclist. (For the record, I have been warned twice, but never ticketed, while cycling, and I have been ticketed once while walking and once while motoring, both about 30 years ago.)

   RE:identification posted by Ralph on 8/13/2003 at 7:48:02 PM
About 15 years ago a snotty little Park Ranger got me on Radar doing 45 in a 30 coming down a hill. To make matters worse I blew a stop sign at the bottom. No traffic to be seen anywhere, but I'm man enough to admit it was wrong. The pont is, this guy gives me 2 tickets. I ended up with 4 points on my drivers license, and since I had already been bad in my car once, I got a 6 point warning letter from the State of Ohio. My insurance copmpany wasn't sympathetic at all about the fact that I was on a bike and jacked the hell out of my rates for years afterward.

   RE:MISC:   License (point of info) posted by Rob on 8/13/2003 at 10:26:48 PM
Thanks all for the heads-up...I've just assumed that because you don't need a driver's license for bikes there would be no connection made by the cops...I think maybe I'll stop carrying it when I'm on my bike...haven't been stopped yet even though I occasionally (and with the greatest respect for any pedestrians) ride on sidewalks and, when there is no traffic, run stop signs and traffic lights....

AGE / VALUE:   Williams Chainwheels posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/12/2003 at 7:37:48 PM
Thanks to the Cycles De Oro, 'Classics Rendezvous' web site.
(The British section) and the work of that grande fellow, Hillary Stone.

I was able to look up and decipher the markings on my
Williams skip tooth track chainring off of the: The Flying Scot.

It is made in 1952. This on a bike from 1957.
Thanks Hilary and thanks Cycles De Oro!

I'm still wondering what happened to the Williams Company's blueprints, compant notes, papers, press equipment, patterns, jigs, dies, and who can get ahold of former employees and answer my questions!
I want to see pictures and really delve into this and find out.
I hold the Williams Chainwheel and cranks and I get all depressed that they are gone. I suppose I should just get out there and use this and enjoy it and that I will do.
Still I want to know!

Hilary is one of the few chaps that do pop up with some answers to the type questions I ask. Not as far reaching as I'd like but hey, nobody knows everything and I am grateful for whatever is revealed.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Question re: 1984 Schwinn Peloton posted by: Warren on 8/12/2003 at 7:11:29 PM
What is the difference between the Schwinn Peloton and Paramount from the same period (around 1984)?

What tubing was used for the 1984 Peloton? I heard that the geometry on the Peloton is the same as on the Paramount.

Any additional info would be greatly appreciated.



   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Question re: 1984 Schwinn Peloton posted by Tom Findley on 8/12/2003 at 7:33:08 PM
Peloton specs:


1984 prices:


The only info for the Paramount was that it had Columbus SL and SP tubing.

   Thanks... posted by Warren on 8/12/2003 at 9:59:35 PM
Tom, thanks for the great info. I barely missed buying a local one from its original owner for $270. It looks like the Peloton was the top of the consumer "racing" line, and worthy of consideration.



VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Norco Triathlon posted by: Rob on 8/12/2003 at 6:08:38 PM
It's finally on the road...and it's another winner!!!

During this spring's municpal cleanup campaign, I found, curbside, a Norco Triathlon, complete, with wheels off but beside the bike, covered in a thick layer of dust and grime (what you might expect on something that had been stored in a dry, but dirty garage or shed for 10 or 15 years). I didn't have to do much other than thoroughly wash it (the frame has a few scratches and nicks, but is pretty darn good); tweak up the spokes a bit; put the wheels back on and pump up the tires. It's a beautiful ride!!!! ...close to a record time for my morning commute to work...

The bike is circa 1982 or 83, judging from the components...Cyclone M-II derailleurs; Dia Compe 500 sidepulls; a drilled 52-42 Sugino GT crank; a SunTour (model?) freewheel, 14-26; Mangaloy (Tange) tubing; narrow eyeletted Araya rims with 23 or 25mm tires. The bike is made in Japan...Norco is a CDN company...still exists...which branded a lot of interesting stuff for the CDN market. My understanding is that in that era Norco had these bikes, and others, built by the Japanese company, Kamamura (aka Nishiki). There almost certainly will be a US equivalent...something imported by WSI?...If you can find one you won't be disappointed!!! (From my description, does anyone have any ideas what the US model might be?)

I could feel the smoothness, nimbleness, speed and all 'round nice handling of this bike instantly. The gear combination is quite suitable for commuting...I have a couple of steep hills, which I can power up with no problem.

I'm also thinking of trying the wheels on one of my other more nimble bikes (ie Gitane TdF)...I've heard on a number of occasions that wheels and tires can make a huge difference to just about any good bike...maybe that's the case here. Any comments? Anyone knowledgable on this particular model? Tom?

At any rate...it's certainly another little Japanese gem from the early '80's!!!

   wheels; Nishiki posted by John E on 8/12/2003 at 9:19:43 PM
Taking your last question first, wheels and tyres make a huge difference in the way a given frame feels and performs. I have tried both 23mm Continentals and 28mm Armadillos on my 1980 Peugeot PKN-10, and it feels noticeably sportier with the former, although it still performs decently with the latter.

Yes, a high-end Nishiki should be comparable to your Norco. I lost track of their specific model designations after the mid-1970s Road Compe / Competition / International / Olympic / Custom Sport lineup, but I believe they replaced the Road Compe with the Professional about that time.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Norco Triathlon posted by andym on 8/13/2003 at 2:24:20 AM
Its amazing what people throw away,is'nt it?
I would like to make a friendly suggestion though. Whenever I get a bicycle,especially an older one,I go through and clean and grease the bearings.Grease dries up after a few years and it does'nt take many miles to do some real damage.Heck,even when I buy a brand new bicycle,I go through it.The factory rarely uses enough grease or even good quality stuff.I've learned that the hard way.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Norco Triathlon posted by Rob on 8/13/2003 at 6:33:02 PM
Thanks 'Andym'

I totally agree...and my plan was to do that fairly quickly, was only going to ride the bike a few miles to test it out, but I liked it so much I pushed that to about 50 miles....Anyway after reading your note last night I got to it right away. And not too soon...

Here's what I found:

1. Rear hub - pretty well dried right out, light scoring and pitting of the bearing races; bearings pitted and one cone with the inboard shoulder chipped off, but not affecting the race area. Fortunately I had a servicable replacement cone...put in new bearings. Not ideal but it'll work...
2. Front hub...not bad...grease was reasonable...replaced bearings anyway.

3. Headset...for some reason this had been regreased sometime after purchase...it looked quite fresh...maybe shortly before the bike was put in storage...I wonder why this alone was done???...the forks look orginal...

4. Bottom bracket...dried right out...no rust though...bearings were still good and minor pitting on the spindle...not perfect but it'll work...I'll lose a few seconds, but, hey, I won't be time trialing against Lance anytime soon...:)

AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Sprint Nomade/Fixed gear posted by: troy on 8/12/2003 at 5:06:20 PM
I have recently been given a Motobecane Sprint Nomade and am very curious about its age. It has a Dia-Compe brake (safety)levers, Sugino AT triple crank, Suntour Honor derailer, Weinmann type 730 brakes, was made with 20-40 hi- resiliency tubing, and has Shimano hubs, front derailer, and altus shifters. Would I be correct in assuming that this was an entry level Motobecane? What might it's original value have been? I have been toying with the idea of converting to a fixed gear and am unsure whether this bike deserves the time and money given I would replace steal rims. Even though the bike has many dings everything but brakes works perfectly. Age most importantly. Thanks for any ideas.

One more thing, what's a good reference book I should checking out? My old/new bike was just stolen and am determined to fix up an older bike with hope I'll be less of a target. Thanks again for any suggestions.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Sprint Nomade/Fixed gear posted by Walter on 8/12/2003 at 5:42:46 PM
I bought a Nomade in 1978 for $225 or so retail. Yours sounds like a somewhat more recent bike as mine didn't have the "Sprint" title and wasoriginally Huret changers with steel Rigida rims.

Hope that helps some.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Sprint Nomade/Fixed gear posted by JONathan on 8/13/2003 at 10:32:33 PM
For the same reason that I balk at downhill skiing, I haven't gotten up enough courage to convert one of many candidates to a "fixie"...that endearing term belies the treacherous nature of that kind of rig...just my 2 c's. I may put one together, yet.
I think the BB "drop" is a major concern. I would strive for maximum clearance to get the drag-angle optimized. The cranks I would use are 165mm, instead of the usual 170mm. Japanese bikes had the 165's...Centurion, for example. That's about as far as I got.
The rear hub is my next concern. My Motobecane "Super Mirage" has a whopping 43 1/2 " wheelbase, which makes it great for cruising, but I'm thinking a Le Tour II (l977) in my standby group is my choice. I have no clue of the optimum wheelbase. A good book is Glenn's "Complete Bicycle Manual", 1973. Actually, it's by Clarence W. Coles and Harold T. Glenn. It's my favorite source for vintage restoration on the workbench. As a tribute to the inspirational post by a fellow named "Tom", I have looked up the exact page number on overhauling fixed gear hubs. It is page 108. There is some general discussion of the fixed gear bicycles near the beginning of the book. Good luck with the effort....JONathan

AGE / VALUE:   Atala Grand Prix II posted by: Gralyn on 8/12/2003 at 11:50:25 AM
I had to dig some stuff out of the garage yesterday - and doing so, I had to move several of my bikes out of the garage. I picked each one hanging from it's rack.....picked up my son' Bianchi (felt light as a feather)...picked up an old Motobecane Nomade (pretty heavy)...etc. etc....then I picked up the Atala Grand Prix II....I was surprised at how light it was. (I wish I knew exactly what each bike I have weighs). I just didn't expect it to feel so light. It has original Italian alloy bars (no-name) and stem, I put a newer Italian bottom bracket and Shimano 105 cranks. It has alloy wheels. Original brakes, levers, cables. The saddle isn't anything in particular. Does anyone know what one of these would have weighed as originally equipped?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Atala Grand Prix II posted by Tom on 8/12/2003 at 2:05:55 PM
Weights will vary depending on the frame size and year, as specs changed often. Back in the 70's, manufacturers' advertised weights were somewhat suspect. Manufacturers would round down weights, quote weights for the smallest frame size and probably used scales giving light readings. Assuming these are from the "boom" years, the Nomade was advertised at 29lbs and the Grand Prix II at 27 lbs. That crank/bottom bracket upgrade would have lightened the Atala by 1-2 lb.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Atala Grand Prix II posted by Tom on 8/12/2003 at 2:06:47 PM
Weights will vary depending on the frame size and year, as specs changed often. Back in the 70's, manufacturers' advertised weights were somewhat suspect. Manufacturers would round down weights, quote weights for the smallest frame size and probably used scales giving light readings. Assuming these are from the "boom" years, the Nomade was advertised at 29lbs and the Grand Prix II at 27 lbs. That crank/bottom bracket upgrade would have lightened the Atala by 1-2 lb.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Atala Grand Prix II posted by Gralyn on 8/12/2003 at 5:12:33 PM
Yes, I'll bet it's under 25 lbs. (21" frame) One of these days I will find something I can use to weigh these bikes.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Atala Grand Prix II posted by Stacey on 8/13/2003 at 11:43:39 AM
Gralyn, weighing bikes is a simple matter. Use your bathroom scale, hold the bike, step on, take a reading. Now set the bike down and take another reading. Do the math. Viola! You have the weight of the bike.

Yet another simple solution to a often perplexing problem.

Of cours, you could always hang a butchers scale from the rafters and sling the bike to it for a direct reading. This works well for the mathmatically challenged. :-)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Atala Grand Prix II posted by David on 8/13/2003 at 4:55:17 PM
I always suspected mfrs use the bathroom scale to weigh their products because the readings are so often extremely optimistic!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Atala Grand Prix II posted by JONathan on 8/13/2003 at 5:49:44 PM
Here's one way. I haven't tried this on bikes (I use a fish scale that goes to 50#'s), but it is good enough for Physics labs stufying Newton's Laws. The idea is lost in antiquity. You take a long board, establish a fulcrum on a fixed object. You have a guess as to bike weight...say; 30#'s. Now you measure out a distance (any distance that's convenient) of about 12 in.. Place the bike toptube over this spot. Here's where an assistant can be useful. Measure out 3 feet cm on the other side of the fulcrum ( a big bolt lying flat across the fixed object works well as the fulcrum) and place a weight of known value(s) at that point. If you have access to round barbell weights, use a 10# weight. I have mine in Kg's so I use the "cgs", but it dosen't really matter as long as you keep the units the same for both sides of the fulcrum. If the bike just lifts off and balances the board across the fulcrum, you have a 30# bike, just like you predicted!
The secret is that M1xD1=M2xD2 where "M" is the mass and "D" is the distance from the fulcrum. Pretty slick? I still use the fish scale, since it is easier the calibrate. A nylon cargo strap can be tared and it works great to hold the bike at the toptube. The scale is hung from a chain on a low branch of a tree. Just stand clear if you are weighing a "Varsity"! Stand clear anyway, just to avoid being bopped if the dcale slips out of the chain, which takes some doing, but isn't impossible. Just a thought....JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Atala Grand Prix II posted by JONathan on 8/13/2003 at 5:59:39 PM
The fixed object such as a workbench; pic-nic table; post; etc. needs to be level across the plane of the board to improve accuracy and to avoid unnecessary calculations to correct for "g".
I meant "studying", not "stufying". Also; "3 feet" not "3 feet cm". I wish we had stuck with the effort to go metric!

AGE / VALUE:   One that got away! posted by: John E on 8/12/2003 at 1:50:29 AM
In the early 1970s, as a UCLA undergrad, I worked at "Kirk's Bikes," a tiny used bike shop in Santa Monica. While going out of business, we sold a 1950s Follis for about $75. It had been repainted and was nowhere near NOS, but it did have this shifter and front derailleur:


It was tough to set the proper tension simultaneously on both shift levers, but it was indeed a novel setup. These are indeed very rare!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   One that got away! posted by D.C. Wilson on 8/12/2003 at 7:21:09 AM
This Simplex JUY 3 is very nifty, but will some one tell me why it is bid up to $1450 SO FAR! Were these shifters placed chiefly on premium racing bikes and so this set is very valuable for restoration of Herses or Singers? Give me a clue someone.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   One that got away! posted by Chris on 8/12/2003 at 7:57:22 PM
I have prevented these bikes and more so, the parts themselves from getting away but not before it drove me crazy, up the wall crazy, not before I was ready to tear my own clothing trying to haggle out a deal. Not before I had to wait and see the price upped.
I have this stuff but it drives me nuts. Never easy, or painless. The cheaper it is noney wise the more crazy it is to get ahold of. When I get socked pricewise it is very easy.

He held up the Juy 543 derailer and said to me: "Chris, Man you ain't getting my good derailer!"

One day when I I can't handle the hunt and the dealing with the folks and all if it will be too draining on me emotionally and mentally I'll just wisper weakly the location of the lead and the "deal with the place" and others will have to carry off the goodies from the places that I have sniffed out. I'll wind up pointing to the fallen duck but will be unable to retrieve it.

Simplex stuff is magical stuff!
I love this stuff!
Just gone crazy trying to find it and when I have it drove me nuts trying to get it bought, paid for, identified, and back home with me into my lair.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   One that got away! posted by Rob on 8/12/2003 at 9:12:57 PM
FWIW, this weekend, in the recycle pile of a second hand bike shop, I found a Huret Super Touring rear derailleur, very good shape, and the matching downtube shifters, missing only one of the tightening rings...couldn't find the front der., though. According to "The Dancing Chain", this isn't much of a derailleur, but when I see old stuff like that I figure, sooner or later, it will be worth something to someone. I'll even hang onto old Simplex Prestige Delrin ders., unless they are totally junked...same shop one week earlier in their "freebie" box, I found a Brooks B5N in excellent shape, nice patina even, no hint of damage or abuse...Gee, maybe they hired some "newbies" who don't know what some of this stuff is...My approach is to keep building up my knowledge base and to keep looking, but in a relaxed, open-minded sort of way....last year...same shop...a Campy NR rear der., missing hanger pivot bolt...$5...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   One that got away! posted by JONathan on 8/13/2003 at 5:04:28 AM
Some of the OEM stuff can be hard to find, when you need it for a restoration to original status. I picked up a Peugeot UE-18 (mixte) that was '60's vintage. All original, I needed a plastic Simplex front derailer, as the original was cracked and would not mount on the seat-tube. After searching my box of derailers, I discovered a few broken plastic Simplex front derailers. The LBS's are not a source for the likes of that. Just when it seemed impossible, a change of fortune happened my way in the form of a kind person, who had a new one to spare, just gave it to me. The UE-18 is fully original and it looks striking. It was missing the fenders when I got it. Seems that people removed fenders around here back when.
Anyway, just to say; "Don't give up". Fate has a strange way of working out, when it seems hopeless. Being grateful for the kind favor, I hope help someone out with a stray part for a vintage LW, especially if it is the missing piece to an otherwise complete restoration. Thanks, JONathan

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   France-Loire 70's-St. Etienne posted by: John Barthold on 8/12/2003 at 1:26:18 AM
Have ridden my French ride since 75. Equipped with Simplex, Mafac center pulls, beautiful lugged frame..still fast. What happened to this marque...once called a "poor mans Peugeot?" Anyone have any info?

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 3 spd posted by: Tim on 8/11/2003 at 1:12:43 PM
I`m looking for a mens schwinn 3spd in chicagoland area,doesn`t have to be real nice just reasonably priced.
I looked at one at a yard sale but the old guy thought it was made of gold!
e-mail me if you can help,it`s for my dad who just wants a little exercise.Thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 3 spd posted by Dave on 8/11/2003 at 1:59:53 PM
Try www.workingbikes.org they have 2 places on the near south side and sell old Schwinns at reasonable prices.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 3 spd posted by Gralyn on 8/11/2003 at 3:26:08 PM
I've noticed that folks tend to treat old schwinns as they were gold. I know in my area - I guess people grew up with the idea that Schiwnn was the ultimate bicycle. Of course, most of those folks never heard of any of the other brands and levels of quality available. So, they have an old schwinn....and think it's got to be worth a lot of money.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 3 spd posted by Kevin K on 8/11/2003 at 11:13:11 PM
Hey! Easy guys, I'm a Schwinn Collector. But you guys are right. I was at Memory Lanes swap meet last weekend. It is nuts. I can see some of the more collectible bikes from the 50's, even 60's starting to bring some money but late 70's early 80's bikes and junk priced at over $100 is really sad. Either these guys are ill informed or the exhaust from their vehicles is routed into the interior of the car. Possibly both. What's worse is when you try to tell them, even in a nice way the bike isn't worth the asking price, they get pretty worked up. I watched a poor soul a few years back wheel a LeTour from vender to vender asking if they were interested in buying it. The thing was in such disrepair and rusty the chain was frozen solid. It's too bad these people don't do just a little research first, then sell. Everyone would make out. Kevin K

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 3 spd posted by Tim on 8/12/2003 at 1:45:10 PM
Thanks for such a quick response,I`ll give that site a try
The bike I was talking about was a speedster in pretty good shape(although is was bright yellow) and the wanted 80.00bucks for it.He said it was the best bike Schwinn ever made,quess he never heard of a Black Phantom.
Thanks again

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 3 spd posted by TT on 8/12/2003 at 9:13:26 PM
http://www.bikeped.org/ also http://www.yellowbikes.org/

like working bikes above, if anyone is really, really interested in Miyatas, don't know why, they have restored a fair share and looks like the same kind of organization.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 3 spd posted by TT on 8/13/2003 at 12:43:14 AM
addendum to my message: make that, emphasis on Miyatas, but quite a few other late seventies, early eighties, Japanese Bicycles

AGE / VALUE:   Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by: Gralyn on 8/11/2003 at 11:45:37 AM
Just something I've noticed:
For example, when out riding early Saturday mornings - I see the "cyclists" out on their $1000 + bikes, jerseys, etc. doing their recreational ride. Then I see other folks on bikes - who are using their bikes for basic transportation. Those folks are wearing regular clothing - and they usually have a basket or rack on their bike for carrying stuff. But what I've noticed....is the bikes they ride. They're usually really crappy bikes - the dept. store brands, really old. But I thought - heck, I've picked up some pretty decent old lightweights at thrift stores for $10 or less. Of all my bikes, the one that gets the most miles put on it - was $6.99....and it's a great bike - alloy components, frame, etc. (Schwinn Traveler). But I see those folks....and I think.....could they not find themselves a better bike? Maybe they just couldn't afford even a $10 bike. Well, it was just an observation.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by Demarest on 8/11/2003 at 1:28:11 PM
I think, of things sometimes, like one can buy a good bike for the cost of a good cycling jersey, and then again, all of my bikes put together, aren't going to be worth some fine wheelset. There's a learning curve too.

What percent of bicycles, in garage sales, thrift stores, are good? Well, sometimes, those odds seem pretty good at other times, not.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by Ken on 8/11/2003 at 2:03:32 PM
Yeah, there are an awful lot of xmart bikes in the world- and people who can't do maintenance, don't know what they're missing, and manage OK with whatever comes to hand. But a large fraction of that group would rather drive if they could... Yesterday's Target flyer had a 21-speed dual suspension bike for 89.95...

   Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by John E on 8/11/2003 at 2:32:38 PM
With the Capo undergoing restoration and rising out of beater status, I once again use an early 1970s Peugeot UO-8 as my main commuter/transportation bike.

   RE:Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by Gralyn on 8/11/2003 at 3:20:31 PM
That old U-08 would look like a Cadillac compared with some of the commuter bikes I see.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by steve on 8/11/2003 at 4:44:54 PM
Through the years, my favored commuter bike has always been the basic bike-boom 10-speed (Record, UO-8, etc.) with the gearing simplified (1-, 3-. or 5-speed) to give what you'll actually use on the local terrain, and equipped (fenders, lights, carrier) as required. When I've had more money, I might go for a better frame and wheels, but the basic configuration remained the same.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by Rob on 8/11/2003 at 5:10:37 PM
What kind of a bike can you buy...new...for $89.95...I wonder...virtually all machine made, I guess...and with low wage places like China churning this stuff out, maybe it makes sense...but when I look at even the $200 to $300 bikes, I don't see any kind of quality...but the market wants what it wants...and the marketers usually seem to know what they are doing...for those who just want a basic bike, and don't care about performance, other than that the thing keeps moving, and will only be using for a few days each year...it's hard to argue with whatever logic they bring to the purchase...people like us obviously are not the "demographic" being marketed to...although some of us, too, might be persuaded if it's for a kid, and you know that in a year whatever you buy him will be trashed and he'll be on to something else...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by Shannon Reynolds on 8/11/2003 at 5:24:36 PM
It always bothers me to see when people downplay old "department store" bikes. I grew up riding Murray's and to this day prefer them as my main ride. (My regular mount is a 26" '71 Alpine I recently refurbished. She rides straight as an arrow and is built like a small tank.) I can get parts for these old bikes anywhere without paying an arm and a leg, and I've NEVER had one fail on me to the point I had to toss it out. There is so much of an insistance these days that newer is better. It seems so many have fallen hook line and sinker for pure marketing hype. Yes, your new lightwieght may be the newest shiniest thing on the block, and cost you the price of a older used car, but where will it be in ten years or twenty? In that period you may have bought a handful of new bikes, but I'm willing to bet my cheap Murray will still be there taking me where I want to go.

I will admit that I do not like the quality of "department store" bikes now. They have gotten to be a joke. But I will always love the old bikes. I just wish that Murray still made bikes. Seems they have switched over to just mowers and gocarts.

Maybe part of my love for these old "cheap" bikes comes from me living within 90 miles of the old Lawrencberg, TN plant. Or it could be that I was engrained by them as a kid coming up. Or it could be that they are good basic transportation and will last longer than any new whizbang widdget the big name brands can ever produce. My money is on the last one.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by D.C. Wilson on 8/11/2003 at 7:05:55 PM
I live in a small town outside Santa Barbara, California, no one has ever heard of. It is so small that they don't deliver the mail. So: I ride six miles round trip a day rain or shin, whether I want to or not, to the P.O. each day to get my mail. I also go on 10-15 mile exercise rides a couple days a week. I own about 14 bikes ranging from a properly glued Vitus carbon fiber framed racing bike with campy super record grupo, to an old 4-speed Record Ace, to a Bianchi Limited, to a Raphael Geminiani, to an early Specialized Sequoia, to a UO-8, to a Nishiki Kokusai, to Dawes Galaxy. I've had alot of other bikes, but these are what have tended to remain. Here's what I've found works for me.

For post office rides (my equivalent of a transportation bike use), I take the Dawes Galaxy every time. It has fenders, bags, and 531ST tubing configured in touring geometry. The handle bars have a low drop and a Cinelli stem that feel great. Forget alloy wheels for utility bikes, too. This old Dawes has some steel Weinman's that do wonders with the frame for the ride. I've actually replaced them with a fine set of Mavics and prefer the old steel rims for bumps and loads. Supposedly they'll carry more if you like to load up. In short, old, high quality touring bikes are the best rides at the best price you can get for transportation and commuting. And for god's sakes get fenders. I live in a desert and still love my fenders during the rainy season. And they keep a bike a lot cleaner. For my exercise rides, I take the Specialized Sequois, because it just feels the most trustworthy faraway in the foothills where I ride. For riding with go fast guys who want to wear me out, I force myself onto the Bianchi Limited with Columbus tubing and try not to fall too far behind. For posing down at the local sandwich shop where all the sprocket heads go, I ride the 1958 Record Ace. For the pleasure of a French bike, which everyone needs at least occassionally, I ride the Geminiani. I don't have to worry about theft around here, as I once did in the city, so I can ride any of these bikes anywhere and park them without a lock. But for transportation, get an old Dawes with some puncture resistant tires on steel rims, forget about quality of components (good ones are always better, but even the low end stuff works just fine for transportation), and have a great ride.

   RE:RE:Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by Ray on 8/11/2003 at 10:24:52 PM
Can't help, part of the idea of a commuter bike, a "beater", is that no one is going to want to steal it, things like that, you want sort of a cheapie out there.

   RE:RE:RE:Commuter / Main transportation bikes posted by JONathan on 8/12/2003 at 5:33:27 AM
A heavy, tankish bike is a bit tougher to stop than a 4130 framed road-bike or tourer. This becomes an issue in commutes, especially for all-weather riders. The Dawes "Galaxy" with high quality steel rims is tough to top. I can't wait to get mine refitted with new brakes and tape. The Schwinn "Traveler" mentioned earlier in the thread is an exceptional commuter bike. The 4130 steel is light, yet it absorbs a lot of road "noise". It's my main ride. The hp tires on heavy-duty alloy rims with Dia-Compe (Weinmann "Vainqueur" clones) cp's can be set to stop even a massive rider, like me (215#'s) in a flash. The "Traveler" (1983) has the bandwidth of a violin! I'm ammazed at how fast I can push it, yet it handles the rough stretches and slimy roads during wet-downs almost as well as my MTB. The "Traveler" has a tight rear triangle and a fairly long trail on the front forks. For heavy weather, I go with a Giant "nutra" (x-bike) with 700C; 1 3/8" tires and plastic fenders (Blackburn). The bigger tires need fenders if you don't want to get the classic "skunk stripe" on your slicker. Vintage LW's that are under 30#'s are my choice becuase they create the feeling similar to sailing for me, which is cool. A few pumps and glide with the breeze. Just my 2!...JONathan
BTW, a well set up UO/UE-8 is my close second choice. These steeds handle superbly and are extremely comfortable...just a tad heavy with the "Allege special" steel. A "Varsity" with LW conversion (except for cranks) is another unsung hero of commutes. I never have to check the chainstays for cracks after a savage hit.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh European ??? posted by: Titlist on 8/11/2003 at 2:45:22 AM
hello sportsfams, I hope you queries are answered, difficult at times, to know, who is going to look in, right when you want your question answered;

Still, I didn't look long enough, but I saw this guy, ride in a Raleigh at the convenience store, complemented him on it, asked what kind of Raleigh it was ; he said look for yourself, but no decals on it, stating make, he said he got it 17 years ago, I take this to mean, maybe he was in the army somewhere like Germany, because he said he bought it in Europe, I said, you need to lock that up, if you go in the store, he said, it has the old kind of European lock (I looked, and as opposed to a locking fork, it had something kind of where the back brake caliper is), that lock seeming a bit "horseshoe" shaped, same color as the whole frame body, that being silver or gray, or a mix of that. The rear fender, as opposed to being roundish, was kind of flat in the whole center, top part of the fender. Oh, if not needed to be said, this was a 10 or 12 speed, I didn't look closely at the shifters or brake levers. This I am not sure of, but I noted again, a front fender, (fenders being gray silver as well) and on the front fender, mounted into the fender, same color, a headlight. Looking upon the few labels there were,, for the metal used, seems, there was a sticker reading "20 - 30" for the frame material. He said he had road this bike more in the last 3 months, than in the previous 17 combined. He said this, cause that thing, I was amazed, as to the decal worn, some scratches, models, I may have , there was naught one blemish to be found, I told him, it looked mint.

If this model, rings a bell with anyone, or even if it doesn't; just posting this little exciting Raleigh sighting I had today. If you have anything to add, please go ahead. Oh, one sticker it did have, I think, on the forks, "Raleigh England"

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh European ??? posted by Titlist on 8/11/2003 at 2:58:30 AM
I also, have to add, I have a Kabuki Bridgestone I rescued at one time, and the only fault of the Raleigh I saw tonight, was the handlebar tape, maybe the years did it, but the tape is on there looking kind of like eletrical tape, that the bridgestone also has, unwrapping.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh European ??? posted by JONathan on 8/13/2003 at 5:35:25 AM
I would guess he bought it "used", as the 17 years BP would be around 1986. 20/30 tubing is on my Raleigh "record ace" from 1977 and it is the tubing used on my 1979 "Sprite". THe RA had Japanese components, even though some parts had "Raleigh" namesakes. I ditched the steel wheels and upgraded the brakes on the RA. Early 70's RA's and Gran Prix's used Reynolds 531 tubes! They went cheap in the late '70's, based on my experience. I would guess mid to late '70's. I have a '73 DLT-3 "sports" that would be a fantastic bike if the Reynolds 531 had been used in the main triangle. The 20/30 is pretty tough stuff, but it is not light. Alloy wheels and hp 23-622 tires have made it tolerable. Sure looks cool. Do I dare put those slim profile wheels and tires on a lady's "sports"? It's worth a try, I think. Those 40 spoke steel wheels make a mockery of the term "sports". Lacing a 3-speed hub onto a 700C rim seems easy enough, especially if I can use the DLT-3 to copy....JONathan

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh European ??? posted by Titlist on 8/13/2003 at 2:55:56 PM

20 30 High Carbon Tubing

My apologies, I see endless references to this frame material, now that I look around. The frame itself, did look, the way, those late 70s bikes by Raleigh looked. It sure looked mint though, that's the amazing part. As if it were still in the showroom. I did not feel like checking it out thoroughly, but the fenders almost looked plastic too. Thanks.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh European ??? posted by Titlist on 8/13/2003 at 3:03:31 PM
well, I was reading this , http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3621469160&category=7298&rd=1 One can see the same picture, that did not come out in the link. Sorry

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh-Gazelle posted by: heidi on 8/10/2003 at 10:41:50 PM
I have just received a Raleigh- Gazelle (Genuine English Lightweight). 58078 OL on seat stem. Could anyone tell me the year and value as well as restoration tips.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh-Gazelle posted by Chris on 8/12/2003 at 7:36:13 PM
between 1948 and 1954 ?
What does the Sturmey- Archer hub say on it? The year and month of manufacture is on there.