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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Frame, Fenders posted by: Chris on 8/20/2003 at 7:55:54 AM
Hello Everyone,

I have a vintage Raleigh bicycle frame and fenders that I am trying to estimate age and value for. I picked up this equipment from a bike shop that has been around for years, and the stuff was in their attic wrapped in plastic. The frame and fenders are black with red and gold pinstriping, large gold letters "Raleigh" on the down tube. The rear fender has a white base, and I saw a picture of the same fenders in the parts section of this website. The fenders were listed as sold for $42, for a "forever roadster?" I have pictures if this would be helpful, but I could not find a place to upload them here. I would greatly appreciate any information anyone can provide. Thanks! Chris

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Frame, Fenders posted by sam on 8/20/2003 at 10:14:28 PM
Chris,try the English Rodester group.They always need fenders etc.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Photos of Velo Rendezvous 2002 posted by: Chuck on 8/20/2003 at 5:02:32 AM
I have just put up photos of last year's Velo Rendezvous held in Pasadena, California. Though you all might enjoy seeing what kind of bikes show up at this three day event held every year the first week in October.

The photos are at


   RE:   Photos of Velo Rendezvous 2002 posted by Eric Amlie on 8/20/2003 at 9:34:08 PM
Wow! Great pics of great bikes and great people. Thanks for sharing Chuck!

      Photos of Velo Rendezvous 2002 posted by John E on 8/20/2003 at 10:35:02 PM
Thanks for sharing, Chuck! I particularly enjoyed seeing A D Stump's 1974 black chrome bike, which he used to ride to Bikecology when I worked there.

I hope I can make it to Velo Rendezvous this year. Thanks to Jim and Susan, you will not recognize my 1959 Capo from last year's Hetchins Heaven ride!

   RE:   Photos of Velo Rendezvous 2002 posted by JONathan on 8/21/2003 at 12:40:43 AM
Thanks. We had a great visit to Pasadena a couple years back. I would enjoy the exhibition and some cruising around, too. We passed up lots of cool places that would be great to see. The Huntington Gardens looks like it's worth a trip all by itself. That Masi "track bike" is some ride!
Great pics.

   RE:RE:   Photos of Velo Rendezvous 2002 posted by Titlist on 8/21/2003 at 4:25:24 AM
Photo 2 on page 6, captioned, "Ted Ernst's Ric Super motor pace track bike from his days competing in Europe in the 1950s." Get a load of that Crank. I guess, Bikecologists are here. The tales I have heard, of a large crank, being able to get one, well, one gentlemen I guess, over 70 MPH or more.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Photos of Velo Rendezvous 2002 posted by Keith on 8/21/2003 at 5:55:42 PM
Quite a treat. Thanks Chuck.

MISC:   Back on the roads. posted by: JONathan on 8/20/2003 at 3:56:12 AM
I've observed a significant number of vintage LW's and rigid MTB's out on the roads. I mean, these rides look great. There must be LBS's that work on the vinatage stock (I guess I better look again), or there are a lot more rider/mechanics like us. Too little information to even speculate; it may be a random perturbation in the normal flow, but friends have been grumbling about the FS and want a swap for rigid forks on their MTB's. Others want a comfortable riding road bike. Lights, camera.... enter the vintage LW. The idea of a backlash effect comes to mind. As the cheapskate that I am, the high-dollar rides with high levels of sophisticated technology at work, have not the allure nor reason to justify my forking out. However, I can't say anything against getting a fantastic, albeit expensive, bike, if that's the order of the day. A road-racer or triathlete needs the slight edge in equipment, to be sure. I still see (and pass) the uncomfortable looking riders on state-of-the-art rides, and then, at another instance, I see the "happy" look in riders pushing the vintage bikes. It makes sense, the really TOL bikes take some getting used to, and maybe they are'nt built to be "comfortable", anyway. They're built to go fast, that's it. Could it be that the venerable and sensible (not sure!) vinatge LW's, like the ones we talk about, are making a resurgence into the main? Or, maybe it's more an economics question. The bikes are cheap, run well for a long time without fussing and they are comfortable to ride. Maybe those strained looks are from extreme effort...as if to get the most out of the bucks spent ($1000's) for the privelidge to have such a fine mount. Can't say. I know if you want to "X-treme"-workout yourself, get a Varsity and head for the hills! A week's worth of glucose burned in one afternoon. To be fair, there is the occasional rider on a carbon-fiber or Titanium who whiffs by me with a straightahead, businesslike look (not strained or angry?), to whom I silently salute. Pros don't count in my evaluation. It's easy to throw out data that doesn't fit the hypothesis and treat them as exceptions.
One thing that's cool about the UO-8 types is to push them beyond their performance limits is hard work for even a seaosned rider. To push a super-light, professional type road bike to it's design limits would put the fear in me. Just my 2....JONathan

   RE:MISC:   Back on the roads. posted by Kevin K on 8/20/2003 at 11:23:37 AM
Hi all. I live on a road well traveled by cyclists. More and more I'm seeing older road bikes in groups of 5 or more. As we pass my son will call out the names on the down tubes ( no brainwashing here ) A shop I use to do repairs I'm not yet talented enough to complete has an ever growning number of clunkers sitting to be rebuilt. Last time in the store I saw a 1973 Continental sitting, waiting for rebuild. It needed everything, inc. a chain. The estimate was over $100. Guy didn't bat an eye. So that's good. At least it's not being trashed. On the other hand though I think for $100 plus you could really land a nice ride. Schwinn lover or not. Kevin

   RE:MISC:   Back on the roads. posted by Don on 8/20/2003 at 1:13:01 PM
I agree. Here in Olympia, WA I see more & more vintage lw riders. This is a good sign but a downside (for us cheapskates) is the inflation of prices at thrift stores. The local Goodwill now prices lightweights in the $25-$75 range which is way beyond my preferred $10-$20 range & I haven't seen anything to tempt me yet. I may have to just ride & maintain my existing fleet! As to speed, some of my best could reach speeds beyond my comfort zone. At the advanced age of 63 I shy away from really high speed, 20 on the flats & 30-33 mph is my limit downhill. Don

   speed posted by John on 8/20/2003 at 1:51:47 PM
Don, I turn 53 on Tuesday (Women's Suffrage Day; Tullio Campagnolo's birthday), and my speed limits are the same as yours. This is why I tell everyone that ratios above 100 gear-inches are useless.

I may be seeing a few more vintage bikes on the road, but my 1981 Bianchi is always the oldest machine on San Diego Longriders' club rides. (I keep telling them, "If you think this is retro, wait until you see my 1959 Capo.")

Vintage road bikes should be popular, because they are the most sensible choice for general cycling. Most of today's new road bikes are hard-core racing machines with incredibly short wheelbases, stiff rides, twitchy handling, and very narrow tyre clearance. (Forget mudguards or racks.) The manufacturers have increasingly embraced a two-tier strategy of comfort/hybrids on one end, all-out racing machines on the other, and very little in between.

The story is similiar with mountain bikes, most of which are ridden on paved roads and multitrack trails. For this type of riding, suspension (now common even on the $100 cheapies -- a scary concept, indeed!) is a liability rather than a proven benefit.

   RE:MISC:   Back on the roads. posted by Rob on 8/20/2003 at 9:42:50 PM
Some good points here...although most people might think I'm a bit of a cheapskate in terms of material things...my interest in vintage LW seems to go well beyond that...the low price is an added benefit. Until a couple of years ago I hadn't been on an LW since the early '70's. Since the late 80's I had ridden an MTB with varying regularity. A transit strike motivated me to starting commuting to work, initially on an MTB. After a few months my younger brother let me ride an early 70's Raleigh Super Course he had picked up for $25CDN ($18US). I was absolutely amazed, at how the bike handled, maneuvered, etc...I was hooked instantly, and it's just gotten better since then...I've now got somewhere between 50 and 60 bikes (I got rid of a few rcently...I want to get the numbers down a bit...), plus dozens of derailleurs, brake levers and calipers, a number of good cranks, a couple dozen freewheels of various types and ranges...extra wheels and wheel sets, maybe a dozen...and scads of bits and pieces. Maybe 30 of the bikes are fully operational, and probably up to 15, I really like riding..Currently I'm using my Norco Triathlon apparetnly marketed as a high end Nishiki in the US...Cyclone II derailleurs; drilled Sugino GT cranks, etc....see previous posted from a couple of weeks ago). I just put on a Cateye Astrale display setup...until the rains start I plan to use this bike as my "trainer"...I want to get the cadence and speed up....Although I'm well into middle age, and despite a couple of low speed spills this summer...I still want to go faster...I figure I'll know where that 'edge' is when I get there, and I don't feel it yet... I don't seem to worry much about crashes...I don't know if that particularly wise!!!

Anyway good riding!!!

   RE:speed posted by Don on 8/21/2003 at 12:04:35 AM
John: I second everything you say about the new road bikes, I had a 2001 UniVega Modo Vivere, very fast, stiff & very very twitchy with so little clearance it was almost impossible to mount a fender set & required constant fiddling to maintain the clearance. Adding a carbon fork changed the geometry enough to improve the handling but I ended up giving it to my 15 y.o. grandson who has the reflexes to match the bike! First thing he did was strip the fenders & put on some garish bar tape. Everyone to their own taste! During Summer, I mostly ride a 1984 Specialized Touring bike or my Bianchi Trofeo, both of which are setup all friction all the time & just great rides. My oldest is a 71 Raleigh Super Course I restored & repainted "better than new" it's just a little long for my build so I don't ride it much. Maybe this Winter I will try a different stem as it deserves a place in my regular rotation.

   RE: Speed/Women's Suffrage posted by Don on 8/21/2003 at 12:11:03 AM
FYI, I had a sign on my work cubicle which said "Repeal the 19th amendment", went right over the head of my co-workers, most thought it was some kind of anti-tax statement! I don't really want to repeal it, just trying to get a rise out of folks.

   RE:MISC:   Back on the roads. posted by Keith on 8/21/2003 at 4:44:56 PM
I see more vintage bikes than I used to on the local bike path, but mostly the riders are younger. I assume its kids riding their parents old bikes, or they got great deals at garage sales. I don't see more vintage bikes at bike club rides, however -- if anything fewer and fewer.

   19th Amendment posted by John E on 8/21/2003 at 5:09:26 PM
Don, your comment about the 19th Amendment reminded me that John Q. Public exhibits a dismaying level of ignorance of civic affairs. I believe the U.S. and its various states and cities would have much more effective leaders if more citizens made the effort to become better informed regarding history, government, and politics. I have become a political activist at the city, county, and state levels, because of my commitment to bicycle- and pedestrian-friendly laws and traffic engineering.

   RE:retro rides posted by JONathan on 8/21/2003 at 6:04:51 PM
My observations support yours, Keith. The "club" riders appear to have newer bikes. My guess is that they have the bucks to get any ride they desire, judging by the makes I see. Now, you have an increase in the "commuter" population. These riders have the well maintained vintage LW's and they can be distinguished by the confident (not brazen) cruising, purposeful awareness of what's happening around their bikes while riding and they are the most diverse age-group. Then you have the hard-core, solos (or maybe the small pack) usually in the hills or expressways, where their effort is obviously focused on competitive venues.
Then you have the younger set with the retro rides. The commuter numbers have gone up as well as the retros. I'm not sure it's just economics driving the increase in ridership. I've been pulling my funky "camping" trailer around this summer and even with a dummy load of (4) concrete blocks or real groceries, I have gotten fewer "stares" than in previous summers. Whatever it is, I see it as a "cyclical" turn....JONathan

   RE:RE:MISC:   Back on the roads. posted by John B on 8/26/2003 at 1:28:20 AM
Bike clubs use the nearby two-lane blacktop for speed trials and rural roads to cruise. It appears all of them have the latest tech cruisers and tandems. They all have the spandex regalia down..the image. I wouldn't trade any of their rides for my swift French 70's bike. To each his own

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   selle anglaise saddle posted by: Francois on 8/19/2003 at 11:37:07 PM
I posted this in the English Roadster category but thought maybe someone here could also be of help. I picked up a brown leather saddle of very nice quality, very thick leather, two steel rails, racing style, at a flea market in France. It has the words Selle Anglaise and Birmingham embossed on each side surrounding a larger word-Extra-in the middle. Is this saddle of value or should I just go ahead and put it on my everyday commuter as I was planning on doing? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

AGE / VALUE:   How small is this frame? posted by: Warren on 8/18/2003 at 7:15:53 PM
On the subject of 3Rensho...look at model 420z halfway down the page. Radical.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   How small is this frame? posted by Ron on 8/19/2003 at 8:40:47 AM
It appears to me to be about 12-13 inches. I thought the model #420-Z might be the size in mm, but that doesn't match the wheel proportions.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   How small is this frame? posted by Tom on 8/19/2003 at 1:46:05 PM
I believe Ron's original assumption is correct. The only thing in the picture that you have good confidence in using for a reference is the chain pitch (12.7 mm). Using that as a basis, I was able to count off 20 links (252 mm) and compare the measurement to the seat tube. I came up with 413mm (centre-to centre) and 442mm (centre to the top). Given the degree of possible error, this is close enough to substantiate Ron's original assumption.

The trouble with referencing the wheels, or other components, is that you don't know what size is employed. chain pitch is the only valid reference for comparison.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   How small is this frame? posted by Titlist on 8/20/2003 at 4:45:15 AM

I hope you are healing well. Your injury, made me ponder, since, I have had similar happen to me. Maybe My whole life, I've had a pain in my left chest, and some things aggravate it; That lotion, icey hot, certainly helped my pain. I don't think, I got a cracked rib, but bruised, as they say, maybe internal bruising. Indeed, wishing you a speedy recovery.

A bit on what JOHNathan talked about, in the Twin Cities, I don't know it all that well. I don't like the Big City, Minneapolis that much, St. Paul, is pretty small compared to that, quite a few things there, Cycle Sport Magazine's distribution office in the US is there. Way to cold here still, but I will tell you, probably like other cities, sort of a "main drag" for Cyclists, is Summit Avenue in St. Paul, fairly nice neighborhood, a few colleges, kind of quaint old town area too, maybe your Victorian houses, but at about any hour, you will probably be able to see some lean machine go by.

At least on one bike, I really, had to put the clipless pedals on, to keep up with some of those machines, seems to make the difference (or toe clips, work for some I am sure, very well.) I tend to have fun, with the bikes, fork out the money for one of the high dollar bikes? I've got a frame, if I were heck bent on such...

Guy at Ebay, says, about the battered Record he is selling, put some nice tires on, and you can fly with the big bikes?

Well, I'll just sit back, watch, listen, be astute... and hoping all goes okay, life's unexpected... Oh, yes, on that summit, would be very easy to meet someone's car door...

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   freebie continental posted by: Brian L. on 8/18/2003 at 3:14:14 PM
Richard, et al,

Most of a 70's copper continental free to first comer. Winner take all. 56cc. Paint:original, good/7, strangely no decals at all, with exception of factory warning sticker. No: Pedals, derailleurs, brake calipers or head badge. Must pick up. (206) 826-0332 Wk/msg. Seattle/Greenlake.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carlton Continental posted by: David on 8/18/2003 at 10:44:45 AM
Interesting bike on ebay:
Seller sez the flip-flop hub has 5-speed cluster on one side, fixed (not freewheel) on the other. I thought this was a very bad idea with a derailer/chain tensioner. Is this likely to be the original setup? Comments?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Carlton Continental posted by Warren on 8/18/2003 at 1:19:46 PM
I wonder about these...I picked up an FB hub at a thrift store with the same configuration. I can't see how its possible to run a fixed gear thru a derailleur. Anyone else?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Carlton Continental posted by sam on 8/18/2003 at 2:46:58 PM
Schwinn ran a derailer fixed gear --sort of---they put the freewheel on the crank.Wasn't the best idea.A late 30s Swiss bike I saw had a fixed / 2speed , but the derailer was an open type that had an idler tension wheel ahead of it.I understand you put back pressure on a fixed to help stop,sure would do wonders on a derailer!---sam

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carlton Continental posted by sam on 8/18/2003 at 3:00:39 PM
After lookin at the bike , I think the secret is the old style derailer.It's a chain pull type that is really just a moveable idler wheel.

     Carlton Continental posted by John E on 8/18/2003 at 4:21:15 PM
Yes, one can use a derailleur with a fixed-gear hub, provided that the chain is so short that the idler wheel is pulled almost as far foward as possible. This concept is perhaps a bit easier to execute with the Simplex TdF derailleur, whose idler wheel is on TOP.

I am still surprised that no one has developed a really good (efficient, lightweight, etc.) multispeed fixed-gear transmission, but I suppose the market would be very limited.

   RE:  Carlton Continental posted by Gralyn on 8/18/2003 at 4:31:30 PM
I don't see how it would work. Someone would have to explain it to me. I mean, I know it would work...would function....but I'm thinking about the back pressure on the pedals....eventually it would catch-up.....but you have a degree of slack that has to take up first. I don't think I would like it.
I wonder if it's a situation where it was a flip-flop hub - but someone really wanted a multi-speed bike - so they put a freehub on one side of it...with no intentions of flipping it back.....but you could use it - by by-passing the der. and shortening the chain.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carlton Continental posted by Tom on 8/19/2003 at 12:05:37 AM
So, who says you have to run the fixed gear set-up through the derailleur? When the Wednesday evening track meet rolls around you ride the multi-speed option to meet. Once there you remove the chain, flip the wheel and install your shorter track chain, by-passing the derailleur. Then loosen the brake cable anchor bolts to deactivate the brakes and you have a track legal bike for only ten minutes work, an extra chain, a chain tool and a brake wrench. After the races, you reverse the process, taking extra care to ensure you hook the brake cables back up, and ride the bike home. This would be a lot cheaper than having dedicated bicycles for both track and road. It would seem to be the ideal solution for a road/track racer on a tight budget.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carlton Continental posted by David on 8/19/2003 at 11:20:21 AM
Thanks Tom. Finally, a plausible explanation!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carlton Continental posted by jonATHAN on 8/20/2003 at 7:11:32 PM
I came upon a Raleigh "technium" that had seat-stays hex-bolted to the seat lug! I could not see the reason for that until I read what you said about it, Tom. Those attachable seat-stays permit the chain to come right off...no break required. My "technium" is not so equipped, as I have been thinlking about a fixie setup for it. I like the 14 speeds (7-cog cluster) for recreational rides. Removing the hex-bolts may lead to problems over a large number of cycles. Maybe not. Although I can see the application, I'm thinking there must be another reason for havine dettachable seat-stays; only at the seat-lug, too! Another possible: The smaller chain-ring could be set with the derailer to run through 5 speeds. The large chainring could be setup with chain running to the fixed-hub (after reversing the poles) and derailer removed, or just left out of the train. The idea being that the large chainring would take up the slack in the chain. I have not done the math...JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carlton Continental posted by Tom on 8/21/2003 at 12:43:46 AM
Jonathan, the only case where I have seen bolt heads on the seat stay are a couple of fastback seatstay designs. The stays attach to the back of the seatlug, where the ears for the pinch bolt would normally be. There is a normal slot cut in the seat lug, between the stays. Holes are drilled through and countersunk into the outside of the stays to accept the pinch bolt. Tightening the bolt squeezes the stays and seat lug, cinching the seatpost. It's a clean, beautiful and efficient design. Maybe this is what you saw?

As for the possibility of dettaching the stays at the seat lug, this would still not allow you to remove the chain without breaking it, as you could not get it past the brake bridge.

However, I have seen three designs that permit chain removal with breaking the chain, providing you are willing to open the derailleur cages.

Most common, is the Lotus, Softride and Zipp monocoque designs which use a very beefy chainstay, but no seatstay.

Next, there are the elevated chainstay designs such as the Corima and the Nishiki Alien. Basically, the chainstay attaches to the frame above the chainring.

Most interesting was a design that tried to solve the rear wheel dishing dilema by mounting the freewheel on the outside of the dropout! The rear wheel didn't even have to be removed to get the chain off!

WANTED:   Schwinn Traveler SS fenders posted by: Joe on 8/18/2003 at 8:40:23 AM
I realize this may not be the correct forum, but I figured that someone here may be able to help.
(Also posted in 'General For Sale or Wanted' & 'English Roadsters')

I am looking for 2 good sets of 26" stainless steel fenders for late 50's or early 60's Schwinn Travelers. I need two front fenders and two rear fenders. They must be in really good condition, no dents or tears. If you have a set for sale or might know where I may be able to locate these, please email me directly throught the link above or post below. I believe these fenders were used from at least '56 to '62, maybe longer. These were the fenders with the finned front tip.
Thanks, Joe

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane Supercorsa posted by: Jim on 8/18/2003 at 6:36:55 AM
Was wondering if anyone could help me I purchased a Gitane Supercorsa from about 1983-84 and I am trying to track down what the original components were, I wanted one of these back then but bought a Colnago rather and had the catalog many years ago but lost it over the years I need to know what brakeset and pedals were used on this bike if anyone remembers or has the info would be appreaciated thanks.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gitane Supercorsa posted by Titlist on 8/19/2003 at 4:49:04 AM
The professor again, may help you with a Super Corsa, but I don't know about the year. Placing the tilda symbol, before the ' that is in the system, "www.oldroads.com" uses, go to http://www.missouri.edu/'winholtz/bikes/BikeList.html , and you will see his bike list. Something led me to believe, maybe he participated here even a time or two. He has a Gitane Super Corsa and a picture in that list. Below in the Mystery RAleigh Frame 2 thread, I say how if you still can't reach this site, go to google, etc. Your question is pretty involved. He told me, that he doesn't get to look after his bikes, like he would want to.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by: Titlist on 8/17/2003 at 10:45:42 PM
Mike wrote: "The frame has serial number: WD4000792 meaning that this frame was produced in the 4th fortnight of 1984 at the Worksop factory. "

OKay, now, then, my Super Tourer,is serial number WD4002221, also, it has winner of the Tour de France, something a post 1981 bike could only have.

I don't think this tells us much.

Curious I had some car trouble today, in stopping, maybe offsetting the expense, I will have to pay, some, a bike, sign said free, I decided, well, I won't need it, but will look, until I saw the badge... Raleigh. This bike, well, is not in gleaming shape, pretty worn really, not a decal left on it.

10 speed

Serial numbers,? where else is it, I turned it upside down, "K" is what I saw.

Maybe someone can help me on this bike, I will research later,

All Chrome Fork, below the head tube, and sort of crowns on top of both legs (?), prongs of the fork,

Suntour Downtube Shifters, clamped on, no braze ons, also, these Shifters have D-rings (like a pocket watch has over the knob). You twist d rings to tighten sometimes.

Lugged, of course, Red Frame, where the headbadge is, blue is the background color.

Back Brake, reads Raleigh 750, Weinman.

Worn all over, the front brake, well, Weinman isnt their but one of the caps on left side of centerpulls, is a V, or an A upside down , without the bridge part. Of course, like on seatpost screw, R caps.

No chrome on backdropouts.

Suntour Honor Rear Derailluer, Claw, Front, is a Raleigh Titled Derailleur,

Salmon colored brake pads (I know, biggie huh?)

Front Tire, Cheng Shin, CSL Super HP

Back tube, Puff HP Touring,

One rim reads, HP.N. and something more then

Screw on wheels, no quick releases,

Left crank, Shimano 600, Pedal, SP 150

Says something like S II Star on Crank

Handlebars, say GB, 62 and almost could be Radonneurs

Lots of Asian parts, but badge does say, The Raleigh, Nottingham England.

I was impressed at lightness, picking it up, has to be lighter than my gran prix, any help, I would surely appreciate it.

When I turned over frame, the K was there. Are there other places, the number is ever placed? Had to take it to storage, maybe, somehow, the number was there, and I didn't see it. I could have almost thought some of this was spray painted, but the head badge was all in decent shape and that part there. Paint Chipped well, the frame, but not dented.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by JONathan on 8/18/2003 at 6:31:51 AM
I have a Raleigh "record" 10 speed with a "K" stamped in the BB shell. The serial# is on the left dropout. I believe this is correct, but I'll check to be sure. I got this one last summer and haven't fixed it up. It's easy to check. Paint is white with black and some orange trim paint. I would guess yours has some replacement components. The Weinmann "750" rear brake is probably OEM. The cp brakes were around before the bike-boom, so I'm thinking mine is early to mid-60's. Just a wild guess, assuming it's all original. It appears to be pretty light. I removed the rear wheel, steel-rim and it has Simplex derailers. I was planning on making it a 3-speed "Sports" type ride, but then a really cool 1972/73 DLT-3 "Sport" came along, with 700C wheels.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/18/2003 at 4:52:52 PM
This truly, made my day, the bike, but your comments too. To give one an idea, as to how, weather beaten this bike seems, when I found the "K" underneath the BB, it was only after applying water; and as soon as that water dried, so did I lose visibility of it again. I am sure, the serial number will be where you mention. For once, I probably have a product that is in those Serial Number Tables. It does appear the bike has had original components replaced., those Randonneur Handlebars, seemed to be very nice aluminum, very light no matter what. Looks like a very nice project to take up, probably, little or nothing of major difficulty. Brakes centerpull, detail I did not mention.

Now, my 3rd Raleigh made in England, I have a Raleigh USA as well. Marathon. Olympic Riding Team decals. This is another bike, I know, it may be USA, but I can not bring myself to salvage for parts, break it up. Made of I believe 503. Very Good Shape. Here I am rambling, but come ice, snow, rain, good to have a backup ready to the quick. Studded Tires on a Mountain Bike, just the front, and I rode accross a lake (by the way, on one used primarily ice fishing if any problem). Two Studded 27 inchers on a road bike, sounds like it could be some fun. The studs really do work, for those in Sunny So Cal, or where ever.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Mike on 8/18/2003 at 10:12:25 PM

Thanks for the serial number info. Seems your Super Tourer was made in the same time frame (excuse the pun) as my Raleigh - just 1429 after mine. What do the lugs look like on your bike? I checked that decal again but I just do not see the "er" at the end of "Tour". The decal is quite clear. If your lugs match mine I will suspect that it is basically the same bike. Does yours have Suntour dropouts?

Your "new" find sounds like it could be a pretty nice bike. Another project to have fun with. This stuff is fun!


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/19/2003 at 4:11:30 AM
I don't quite have the computer set up to do camera work, if I could borrow one? As it is, I do it the old fashioned way, maybe in about a 2 week period, I could get photos.

As I said below, a like frame, color all, identical, went for sale on Ebay for about $150 and then another one, for about $100-125.

I think, I am to understand, this model has what more expert opinions call a long wheelbase. I do understand Touring needs, well, somewhat by Mr. Robert Van Der Plas again.

I need to check the serial number again, I was looking at the chainstay today, not drop outs.

I need to check the Super Tourer for "forged dropouts" this I am rather uncertain about. Will check, hopefully in the next few days, and the lugs too, maybe see what I come up with.

Originally, it had a long cage simplex derailleur, red label, prestige, plastic. Do not believe that was what the front derailleur was, which has been subsequently replaced once and a second time too. Well, I think, you said you only have the frame, came with Maillard Wheelset, rear cogs, no pie plate or spoke protector, woman must have had an Avocet Seat on it. I picked it up, at a Thrift Store for an Animal Shelter for a rather low amount. Now, the thrift stores I have visited have in some ways, gotten smarter and charge more, Raleigh Pink Capri, woman's bike for about $59, worth it I am sure, to the right person.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/19/2003 at 4:28:38 AM

Of all things, I have spoken, to this Mizzou Professor, Winholtz, who may have even commented here in these forums before.

I went to google, I knew he had a Super Tourer, it is Black! It has mustache, or at least rise bars, vs. drops.


also, his list of bikes, including a Gitane Super Corsa it looks like, http://www.missouri.edu/'winholtz/bikes/BikeList.html

Note, before winholtz above, is a tilde, the way, old roads system works, may put in some other typographical mark. if this doesn't work, go to www.google.com, and type in Raleigh Super Tourist, and about the third selection down, should be something, for Prof. Winholtz, who I have written before, and he was helpful. They have whole catalogs on the web. I am going to see if I can track that down.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/19/2003 at 4:42:57 AM
adding on, for some sort of a French Cajun type of name, there is a Bulgiernet or similar. The professor, gave me exact web addresses of catalogs ; these were really fully scanned, and sorry, must be something where maybe there are copywrights for public sites, I don't know. Took a long time to load. Had quite a few years, not one page here and there, but total catalogs, but not very antique ones, maybe some from the late forties, to the fifties, I think, know they had seventies. That is pretty vague. I apologize, to, I have a bike with forged dropouts, now, I am mainly wondering if I only have chrome back there. I know, there was a spacer, on the right side, you screw in, so the axle, is in a certain spot on the dropout, I need to look at it.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by JONathan on 8/19/2003 at 5:19:51 AM
The serial number can be hard to spot if the paint is heavily coated on the dropouts. The paint is tough and thick on my older Raleighs made before the bike-boom impetus to get more product out the door. I have found quality is all over the scale with bikeboom units. In fact, I can use paint as a diagnostic for vintage. It's easy, too. One factor is quality and durability of finsih. If the paint rubs out and looks great, it's likely pre-'70's. If it looks homogeneous to a fault, with machine-like uniformity, it's post-bikeboom. The other esthetics combined, differentially, can be a good aging tool, IMHO, of course.
Just throwing it out, but it;s what I've come to observe. NOT a theory, since there are as many exceptions as cups of coffee at a chess match. Anyway, that ol Raleigh "record" has the rhino-hide paint, especially on the dropouts. Wherever the number is located, it may be hard to spot with a heavy paint cover. Most bikes have the paint put on after the serial# is stamped, it appears to me.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/20/2003 at 4:27:30 AM
Very good observation; I've been considering it all day.

This statement, seems to be a bit pre bike boom and post bike boom. Well, that is hard for me to say, I know, one can pick up say the Glenn's Repair Manual, a lot is in there concerning the popularity bikes had, in about 1972.

Would be interesting to contemplate, when the bike boom is. Especially, since, really, from the mid fifties, I would say a baby boom, caused a bike boom. I mean, I catch some of the old TV shows, see those Balloon Tired Bikes.

Then, on the other hand, Glenn's or other sources, might say something like, in effect, "environmental consciousness" and the "petroleum crisis" fueled the bike boom, a seventies bike boom. So, I take this to mean, there was sort of a high growth rate at one time, say, in the early 70s. Then, I dont' know, the muscle bikes indicates something as well, pretty neat. Yet, I've got to start dating that about 1966-67, influence by things like the Ford Mustang, etc. One of my pet favorite companies, Motobecane, as other companies, did well, in the bike boom, then faltered, and has now made a strong comeback. Very interesting to contemplate, especially with some of the participants here.

All, IMHO and at times, Unlearned opinion.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Mike on 8/20/2003 at 4:03:16 PM

Thanks for all the information you have provided! I did go over and look at the Winholtz site and saw the photo of the Super Tourer. I am going to post a photo of the frame in question at : http://photos.yahoo.com/cp16r

Take a look at it if you get a chance and let me know.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/21/2003 at 4:14:17 AM

for now, http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/ seems to be the local of scanned catalogs; found via that Retro Velos site. I studied the picture, I am curious, as to how my ocean green Super Tourist may compare (say the striping on the seat tube namely, and comparing yours to the Winholtz). Certainly, I wish to do this correct, cause I know, the Super Tourer may not carry the prestige, that say your Competitions have. At this late hour I will leave it at that, perhaps, when I get to the Super Tourer, I will measure all the tubes, we can get at least a ratio. That may help, and I will note the hubs.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/21/2003 at 4:22:01 AM
Prof. Winholtz'Super Tourer (geez, can I abbrev. ST) is a '76 , or cerca, ours, well, the year seems to be 80, cerca? Despite some usage, my "Winner of the Tour De France" sticker on the head tube, is in good shape. I might wonder, if yours would have that transfer (proper word ) as well. BTW, kind of neat, some guy from England on Ebay, regularly sells Raleigh Transfers, has sold ST transfers, but for starting price of $25 I've always shyed away. He is always selling transfers, and probably would put up ST transfers, if one asked him.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/21/2003 at 4:40:11 AM

Now, I note, http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Raleigh83/ral83_16.jpg the Gran Tour ; seems to have striping a bit like yours, the whole colour scheme in fact.

Guest, there may be a need, for a Raleigh Frame Mystery #3 thread soon.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/21/2003 at 4:50:58 AM
Geez, scusi mi for writing more, that frame is a dead ringer for your frame, and with the description, Campy Team, 531 material, Suntour Forged Ends, and mine, in ocean green, seems a ringer, for the 76er Super Tours, without the rise bars, then the TdF sticker, gets interesting, then we see, our bikes were built around the same time, by making out the hieroglyphics. I regret taking up space here, but pretty exciting and you had the picture.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Mike. on 8/21/2003 at 2:24:57 PM
Well Titlist,

You are quite a detective! Yes that is my frame, it looks identical and has 10" chrome. Quick check of angles seem to check out and this also explains the decal - something Tour. The something could be Gran. I thought Sun. The only thing is my frame is a 1984 not '82 but I am sure that this model continued to be built. Shame I am going to have to sell it as it is too big for me!!! Your frame has to be 1984 as well if the number starts with WD4 or could it be 1974?? They used the same numbering for those years. Mike.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Mike. on 8/21/2003 at 3:29:20 PM

I went back to that site and found my frame listed in the '84 catalog. I realised after my last post that your frame has to be '84 because it mentions "Tour De France Winner" (or something to that effect). Is this your frame? It is the "Competition 12" and it is green - one could almost say ocean green! Check it out at: http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Raleigh84/ral84_04.jpg


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/21/2003 at 7:54:02 PM

Exact color, striping, differences include saddle and handlebars which were aluminum types, foam covered, drop bars which now, have some randoneurs on. Vs. the Jubilee Rear Derailleur, a Simplex Long Cage Prestige Plastic one, and I am now on my 3rd Front Derailleur. Suntour Mighty Shifters, Thumb Shifters, were on the handlebars. These were pretty nice, when they worked. Interesting, as opposed to some control levers, I read an article, that Sun Tour had some problems with thumb shifters. Now, I've got friction downtube ones.

The serial numbering, I admit, I was confused on that, kept on thinking the 0 year, not the number 4 year of that decade, which would seem to need be 1984.

I'll leave it all at that. A decent ride, maybe the overbars, would be a way to go; but I am wondering, if I am starting to give up, to much to be comfortable or not. With the Maillard Wheels, a nice ride.

While I am at it, not this bike so much, but I wonder, about the paint, this one has that sparkle, kind of starry like in the paint. I wonder, if a paint shop, auto body shop or where ever, could match up, paint to be like that.

This frame, to the chrome droputs on both side, is exactly what my bicycle tends to look like.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/21/2003 at 11:58:31 PM
Yes, Forged, and furthermore, I didn't take my reading glasses with me, to the storage site, I am at a time, at a handicap. Nuff said

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/21/2003 at 11:58:35 PM
Yes, Forged, and furthermore, I didn't take my reading glasses with me, to the storage site, I am at a time, at a handicap. Nuff said

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Mystery Frame 2 and Cereal Number ; ) posted by Titlist on 8/22/2003 at 3:15:31 AM
Gentleman at the top of the page, mentioning lugs, and for Mike, I checked mine out, must be the "window" kind, sort of "diamond" kind, triangle coming straight at you, on the top tube. There must be a site, that illustrates lugs, cause I really do have another bike, with some odd curvy ones, http://www.allproducts.com.tw/manufacture6/longshen/showroom1.html is a site showing lugs, but maybe there is a more illustrative site somewhere.

Reading Robert Van Der Plas (or could be another author), between all the bikes, he sort of made comparisons on bikes, with say, Jeeps being like Mountain Bikes, Racing Bike like a Sports Car, a Touring Bike? like an SUV or possibly a Truck? Maybe.

I'll tell you, I know, that a bike is that is too big, well, we are talking about "standover height", and right, that Gran Tourer, may be too big for you. With 531 material, think, I am correct in saying Cro Moly, it can be a pretty sweet, long ride. I should get mine out of storage. Get Some SPD clipless pedals on, see what I can do. I just need to put a rear derailleur on, not much problem, but I do lack on one rear wheel, it did not come with a spoke protector. I do a double take. I mentioned the Suntour Mighty Shifters. This probably is original stock on the bike, dating it again, since those are indexed shifters, putting that bike make in the 80s. Checked that decal to on the Tour De France, mentioned that T1 cycling team as well.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: Weight?????? posted by Titlist on 8/22/2003 at 3:18:13 AM
Darn, I hate, almost feeling like I am bothering writing so much, you may skim over what I say,

But How Much Does It Weigh? Do You Estimate?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: Weight?????? posted by Mike. on 8/22/2003 at 8:42:43 PM

Sounds like to me that you have a pretty nice frame. The lugs on the Gran Tour are the triangular type as you mentioned with a triangular cut out (window) on the top of the lug (one nearest headset) and a triangular cut out on both sides of the lug on the headtube. This is the same for the lug nearest the fork. Lug work is pretty fancy and nicely done. The lug on the seat tube end is also pointy with a cutout on the top only. All lugs and cutouts are finished with gold paint trim.

I weighed the frame with me and the frame on the bathroom scale and then with just me (this to use the mid portion of the scale as there is no accuracy at the lower end of the scale) and it seems to be about 6lbs or so with headset. What does your frame weigh - roughly? It is interesting that the Gran Tour was a frameset only and not a built up bike. I wonder how many were sold?


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: Weight?????? posted by Titlist on 8/23/2003 at 6:20:20 AM
I estimate, oh, 27 pounds, Maillard Rims and all.

Looks like I might try to hook it up with a rear derailleur tomorrow, first thing. Yours sounds like a nice bike, but I passed on what I thought looked like a real dream of a bike; it's that standover height. Before, I knew nothing of what I was doing, now I know a little of what I am, I took apart a Raleigh USA Wyoming, but it had that big standover height problem. The 501 (corrected from my errant 503) tubing Marathon, is probably a bit on the small side. For the Super Tourer too, I put in a handlebar stem, that gave a bit more distance. Now, Bikes seem to be so endearing to me, I won't take one apart, unless, it is in such a state of disrepair, it is more feasible to do so.

But, as from the Retro RAleighs site, it seems a bit of a quandary, that a bicycle, that looks so much like one in their 1976 catalog, was made in 1984; actually postdates yours it seems. It just seems a little odd.

Finally, this thread may be ending, I think, I need to buy from Old Roads, that Value Book on Bicycles, with over 600 bikes.

It doesn't have that Brooks Saddle, at the Bike Coop, I purchased a suede sort of hush puppy dark brown Selle Italia, very comfortable On the handlebars, some black cotton handlebar tape, unshellacked. In fact, what I am embarrassed to say, is that the only spotting this bike has ever really gotten, is when I shellaced the earlier bars, I used the honey colored shellac. For handlebars, it provides an ideal grip, I feel. I have not shellaced these bars. Perhaps, I will in time.

I understand, I mainly just need some sort of remover, solvent for the errant drops of shellac on the bike. Maybe I should seek to do all this tomorrow.

FOR SALE:   Swap Meet Specials - Northeast Bicycle Swap Meet 24-Aug-03 posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc. at OldRoads.com on 8/17/2003 at 3:17:11 PM

In addition to vintage cycles and parts, we're bringing new aftermarket parts and oddball tires to the swap at discount prices. For a list, go to the web site for the Northeast Bicycle Swap Meet:


Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Classica - Bianchi posted by: Titlist on 8/17/2003 at 3:00:34 PM
Speaking of your Japanese Bikes, and also, how about that, Bicis Italianas; both finding some discussion here, I have a Bianchi Classica made in Japan. Curious about this, Monsieur Sheldon Brown writes at his website, " http://sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#bianchi "

"While Bianchi is best known as an Italian brand, they were having bicycles built in Japan to their specifications for several years in the late 1980s. These were particularly nice bikes, with better workmanship than the Italian models. "

Not sure, if this bike is late or mid 1980s; imho, seems like a nice racy bike, I keep my eye out for like makes on Ebay.

The one extraordinary feature, I find on the bicycle, is the frame material, sticker reads "Hi-Mn", meaning I would think, High Manganese (?) < http://www.seko.co.kr/wear%20parts.htm > refers to this material, Korean website.

Any additional input, welcome:

Also, to Mike, will get my serial number today, will post here.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Classica - Bianchi posted by Rob on 8/18/2003 at 4:27:26 AM
I have an early 80's, probably '81 or '82 Bianchi which I'm still working on...

Does this sound familiar?

Tubing decal: "Hi-Mn" "High Manganese Steel" "P.G." "Oji Original Frame Tubes"

Brakes: basic Dia Compe sidepulls
Crank: SR Custom with SR SP-150 pedals
Derailleurs: SunTour Blueline (These were marketed for a several years in the early 80's)
Bars: Win Winpista
Stem: SR

My frame is red with block letters, "BIANCHI", in gold on each side of the downtube. There is a Piaggio decal on the seat tube (Piaggio took over Bianchi, I think, in 1980 or 81. I got the bike without wheels, but I suspect the original rims were likely low-end "Ambrosio" with hi-flange Suzue hubs.

I also had a crashed mid 80's Bianchi which I recently parted out. It had SunTour Seven derailleurs and an SR Custom crank. The tubing, at least some of it, was Ishiwata (stamped on the steerer tube). I've assumed these bikes are Japanese made, but I don't know which company made them...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Classica - Bianchi posted by Titlist on 8/18/2003 at 4:29:22 AM
well, another website snafu, try, http://sheldonbrown.com/japan.html

click Bianchi, then you get the original stated URL which was "http://sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#bianchi"

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Classica - Bianchi posted by Titlist on 8/18/2003 at 4:35:37 AM
Thanks, a lot of what you say, sounds very much like this bike, the Piagio decal on the seat tube, definitely, it may say well, that Oji too. I need to look at it again. Suntour AR front and rear derailleurs; an offwhite bike frame, hard to say Bianchi in Celeste Green is on the frame, a little darker, like Ocean.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Classica - Bianchi posted by Warren on 8/18/2003 at 1:23:08 PM
The better frames had better tubesets. My Bianchi was made of Ishwata 022 and it was a superlative bike, as nice as many of the columbus slx frames that my cohorts rode. Many of the Bianchis were just OK.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Classica - Bianchi posted by Titlist on 8/18/2003 at 4:26:30 PM
Thanks for the tips and remarks;

http://www.yellowjersey.org/showroom.html ; http://www.yellowjersey.org/mh3rblu.jpg , 3Rensho, Some sight, Raleigh USA seems to have used, Ishiwata 022 in recent years as well.

I put in some clipless pedals on this Classica, it can make the rounds fairly decently. See, Manganese is widely used still as well.

That said, maybe it is the way, that despite it's lightness, I read a negative article about the Raleigh Technium, despite it's aluminum build. I have never been on one. Mentioned to in the article, the Raleigh Olympia which again, I would not have experience with.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Classica - Bianchi posted by JONathan on 8/18/2003 at 9:41:13 PM
I let myself be the judge. I picked up a Raleigh-USA Technium, "Olympian", thermal bonded 6061 Aluminum road racer a couple weeks back. My first Al frame bike. The previous owner must have ridden little and worried a lot, because the condition is excellent. The Aluminum tubes were a source of concern, as I am leary of the catastrophic failure mode that is characteristic of the material; unlike steel that usually gives a sign something ain't right by buckling a bit. After checking for crazed paint (sign of stress) on the tubes, I spun the bike for a few miles on blacktop. They did it right. I pushed harder the next few runs just to see what it could do. Very nice. I'm down to my summer trim of just over 200#'s, which is still a load for the tiny-tired marvels of the blacktop, but the strength of the frame is prodigious. There may have been some "dogs" in the Technium roster, but this model isn't one. The frame material seems to vary between steel and Aluminum...possibly concurrent production. I can only speak from my limited exposure to the Al "technium", but with considerable log of steel-framers to evaluate the ride, I would go "thumbs up" for the Raleigh-USA in putting this one on the road. Again, a person has to listen thoughtfully (or at least politely) and then go check it out and decide for yourself. With an open mind, I have discovered a lot that I would have otherwise missed out on. Just a few 2's...JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Classica - Bianchi posted by Titlist on 8/19/2003 at 3:54:18 AM
I've seen a wide range of prices paid on Ebay, for Techniums .... I haven't delved deeply into the differences in description of the Models. Right now, there, they have about 4 Techniums, 3 Records, one yellow, excellent shape, another one is rather weathered. A frame similar to my Super Tourer, sold on Ebay for about $150 ; another one, then, for around $100-125, those I do watch closely. It would be interesting to track models. In that sense, it is just money, not to sound greedy, be interesting to see, why some Techs, seem to get primo bucks, others, I think, I have seen go for $60.

AGE / VALUE:   LeTour III posted by: john on 8/17/2003 at 2:34:48 PM
Anybody know anything about a LeTour III. The last number on the headbadge is 8, and I'm assuming this is 1988. The frame looks very similar to a Sprint except the top of the seat stays are angled instead of rounded like the sprint. The components are stamped LeTour, but they don't seem to be of particularly high quality. With the exception of the quick release wheels,and center pull vs side pull brakes the bikes seem very similar. The bike was in terrible shape when I rescued it from the trash, but after replacing almost all the bearings, crank shaft, and a new paint job (the old one was more primer than paint) it rides ok. Nothing special, just ok. Was this just a marketing ploy by Schwinn to capitalize on the name, or are there other differences I'm missing.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   LeTour III posted by Kevin K on 8/17/2003 at 4:23:47 PM
Hi John. The LeTour III was a late 70's bike. Probally 1978 as I've a LeTourIV for 1979. First year. The fact that the derailleurs say LeTour on the tells me this also as the early LeTours were built in Japan and used components made be Shimano stamped with LeTour on them. The 1979 LeTour IV was USA built with components from several manufactures, from several countries. Nothing special about the bike really. Use it and enjoy. Kevin K

AGE / VALUE:   X-tra Lite posted by: Eric Amlie on 8/17/2003 at 1:52:38 PM
I think the term is somewhat misleading. Schwinn used it in the late seventies and applied it to all their bikes that were higher in the hierarchy than the Varsinentals. It included 1020 steel, 4130 chrome moly, and Reynolds 531 bikes. Quite a range!

   Oops! posted by Eric Amlie on 8/17/2003 at 2:00:34 PM
This was supposed to go down below to address Jonathans question about the X-tra Lite designation on the later Schwinn Sports Tourers. Sorry for the mispost

AGE / VALUE:   French Threaded Freewheels posted by: Tom on 8/17/2003 at 1:47:30 PM
Hi guys, I was away all day yesterday, and didn't get it a chance to participate in subject before Brent solved his problem. I am glad to hear that things worked out.

For future reference, most French bicycles came with Atom, Maillard or Normandy freewheels and some time around the early 70's bike boom (if I recall correctly) they started putting a rectangular punch mark on the back of the freewheel bodies to to identify English threaded freewheels. French threaded freewheels from these manufacturers had no marks.

Of the other major freewheel manufacturers, Maeda (Suntour) stamped French threaded freewheels with an "M" or "34.7 x 1" on the outer cover plate. French threded Regina freewheels were stamped "F.F" on the back, or had 2 grooves on the back. Shimano, to the best of my knowledge, manufactured only English threaded freewheels.

Just be aware, that some of the bikes from the eary boom period may not have freewhwheel markings, regardless of the threading. My identification method is to save an old, worn freewheel that you KNOW is French threaded and clearly ID it with paint (mine has red, white and blue blue stripes to look like a French flag and prevent me from accidentally leaving it on a bike). If it threads on easily, WITH LIGHT PRESSURE, you know it's a French thread. If not, and you kept the pressure light, it will bind up, without damaging the threads.

I hope this helps with future projects on those old Peugeots, Gitanes, Jeunets, Merciers, Motobecanes, etc.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   French Threaded Freewheels posted by JONathan on 8/18/2003 at 7:06:47 AM
Thanks for the brief treatise on FW specifications. Useful, as you stated, for us with all the vintage French "saddle-horse" mounts to restore. Take it easy...JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   French Threaded Freewheels posted by Lenny on 8/18/2003 at 4:33:29 PM
Hi Tom, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge of French-threaded freewheels. With respect to Brent's post below, I have a '74 Schwinn Sports Tourer that has a French-threaded freewheel. I was very surprised to discover this while repairing the bike...fortunately I didn't destroy the threads while attempting to thread on an ISO standard freewheel (but it was a close call and a learning experience!). Regards, Lenny