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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Chater Lea chainwheel sets posted by: Smitty on 8/7/2003 at 3:31:10 AM
Just getting into 50's 3spds and lightweights. The chater Lea cranks look good. I found a bike with no markings. It has a Chater Lea crankset with 2 pins the third bolt is in the crank arm. Most of the ones I see on the internet are three pin. Which is the best of the two. It also has aluminium rims no markings and no eyelets (EA-1's). Rear hub is a SA AW marked 48 could these be Dunlop rims or something else. What's the value of this stuff
Thank's for any help.I'm sure the roadster guy's hang out over here to. They should know.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Chater Lea chainwheel sets posted by sam on 8/7/2003 at 4:20:52 PM
You don't find alum. rims for the 40 hole S/A hubs everyday!

AGE / VALUE:   Pierce Racer posted by: Mike on 8/6/2003 at 10:06:26 PM
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas as to the value of a Pierce Racer complete excellent condition about 90% correct?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pierce Racer posted by sam on 8/7/2003 at 4:17:23 PM
I got one off ebay for $175 but needed work.Another one went for $125 but was not advertized as a Pierce,so it was missing the headbadge.Now the good part ---if it's a Buffalo Pierce it worth more than an Angola Pierce.Check the headbadge.And if you get a photo please email me one ,I love to see it---sam

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS Claud Butler posted by: David on 8/6/2003 at 3:48:26 PM
Anyone see this beaut? Out of my price range, unfortunately.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS Claud Butler posted by Gralyn on 8/6/2003 at 4:37:15 PM
Wow, that's awesome! Yes, just compare that with the $3.99 Sekai I just bought! Or we could compare an old Chevy Chevette or Ford Escort to a Deussenberg or Lambourghini (I don't know how to spell either of those). I'd sure like to find something really old (heck, it wouldn't even have to be anything high-end at all) still wrapped-up - never seen the light of day for like 50 years. It would be amazing.

   Wow posted by Walter on 8/6/2003 at 11:56:41 PM
I love English "club" style bikes and that Butler built with the S-A 3 spped fixed gear that was found with it is a bike that the boys at the pub in 1950 would've drooled over no end.

What a find! Not only that the stuff was stored for so long but that it's still in such great shape.

Gotta check those estate sales too, I guess.

   WOW! posted by John E on 8/7/2003 at 2:06:13 PM
That's right up there with the new-in-box 1974 Peugeot PX-10 which showed up on eBay last year, but even rarer and more valuable.

AGE / VALUE:   Sekai posted by: Gralyn on 8/6/2003 at 12:18:46 PM
Most of my old bike sources were all dried up - but in one - I spotted an old Sekai. It was in pretty decent condition - still had the original cloth bar tape - though very faded. It's the typical Japanese import from the 70's.
It has Shimano Tourney center pull brakes and levers with safety levers. SR stem, Road Champion bars, 5-speed cassette, plain steel frame. Interesting features were that the lugs looked the same as my Nishiki Olympic. The chainring looked like the old Maxy's - except that it has cottered cranks. And surprisingly, it has down-tube shifters - rather than the stem-mounted ones. I believe the shifters and ders are suntour. The front rim is Japanese - but the rear is something made in Germany (so, they don't match). No braze-ons on this one...not even for the der. cable at the rear. The thing about it was.....it was only $3.99 I just couldn't pass it up. Heck, I would have paid $3.99 for the down-tube shifters alone!

FOR SALE:   Raleigh Record. posted by: Gary Main on 8/6/2003 at 6:28:07 AM
come and get a real nice white record in vgc, minimal wear and almost no scratches. cheap.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh Record. posted by David on 8/6/2003 at 12:00:58 PM
Tell us where you are.

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh Record. posted by Oscar on 8/7/2003 at 4:00:38 AM
He's in Michigan, sitting under a pile of bikes that I'd love to get a look at. Worth a vacation day and a tank of gas?

AGE / VALUE:   Lightweights for sale posted by: Gary Main on 8/6/2003 at 6:19:05 AM
Schwinn World Voyageur for sale
23in {the tallest} opaque blue 1973 all oritginal except seat. is all Dura Ace, has barcons, is very light high end road bike in its day, outsold the Paramount so they dropped it after one year. placed next to a paramount i see why, its the same bike {copied under licence from schwinn}, with all high end shimano. is typically scratched, only leaving a chrome fraome to show the scratch. also several very nice Panasonic and Giant Schwinns in vgc, am sellin all of my collection, probably at least 10 or more of these types. COME AND GET EM, they GOTTA GO!! will also include a nice disk brake KAbuki bridgestone, a puch, miyata sports 10 and a pile of Fujis. all lightweight road bikes sold as a package, will only seperate a few.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   kia posted by: mark on 8/6/2003 at 1:28:58 AM
does anybody have any info on kia 10-speeds? thank you mark

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   kia posted by Ralph on 8/6/2003 at 1:40:53 PM
From what I've seen they're Korean trash. Not even worth the effort of dumpstering.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   kia posted by luke on 8/9/2003 at 7:15:15 PM
i had a kia last year,a very unsafe spot welded frame made
me toss it into the garbage.it was a 1978 model.they are of
course the same company as the car.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Competition GS posted by: Ken on 8/5/2003 at 7:33:47 PM
I know most of us here are bargain hunters if not (like me) outright scavengers, but I'm just going crazy. Because I have a Raleigh Competition GS on the web (at http://www.campyonly.com/retrobikes/retro_archive1.html) I sometimes hear from GS owners. Well, the guy who posted his on the for sale/wanted page sent me pictures and his bike is absolutely sterile. Mine's been ridden since 1978; he says his has 200 miles on it. It has to be seen to be believed. I sincerely hope it finds a home with a collector who understands how rare this bike's condition is. It's exactly as spec'd in the catalog (on RetroRaleighs at http://retroraleighs.com/competition.html) except for the reflectors and the Brooks saddle. Again, it's not mine and I don't know the owner. His post is already back a page or 2.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531c Decal when 1st used? Raleigh Pro serial numbers? posted by: Mike on 8/5/2003 at 2:02:20 PM
Does anyone know when the 531 decal with the "c" (ie. 531c) was first used? On another note does anyone know anything about the serial numbering system for the Raleigh Professionals? I have been to the Raleigh numbering system on this site and it does not seem to fit the pattern. The number I am looking at is : WD4000792.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531c Decal when 1st used? Raleigh Pro serial numbers? posted by Rob M. on 8/6/2003 at 6:23:30 AM
What about a Gran Sport with the following serial Number? I haven't quite been able to decipher this with the information available on the Retro Raleigh site.


I think it's probably a 1961...mainly because I have the original receipt with a date of 1962 on it. I'm not certain what the RB signifies though.


   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531c Decal when 1st used? Raleigh Pro serial numbers? posted by Corey on 8/6/2003 at 7:10:24 AM
Hi Rob,
I had thought that the "c" in the "531c" had stood for
'Competition', but I could be wrong. Is this correct, anybody?


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531c Decal when 1st used? Raleigh Pro serial numbers? posted by Wayne on 8/5/2003 at 4:16:10 PM
I can answer the second part of your query.
According to Retro Raleighs.com...
The first letter of the serial number is the factory of manufacture
W=Woksop England
The second letter is the fortnight of manufacture.
D=4 (x14)= The end of February
The first number is the year of manufacture.
4= either 1974 or 1984 (let the components and the
condition of the bike help you to decide)
The rest of the serial number is the unique unit number.
I hope this helped,

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531c Decal when 1st used? Raleigh Pro serial numbers? posted by Tom on 8/5/2003 at 4:25:18 PM
According to the retro Raleigh site, this frame was built by the Worksop facility, during the 4th fortnight of 1974 or 1984. A 1974 would have the fastback seat stays and no brazed-on fittings, except the cable stop for the rear derailleur. A 1984 frame would have normal seat stays and brazed-on fittings.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531c Decal when 1st used? Raleigh Pro serial numbers? posted by Tom on 8/5/2003 at 5:48:05 PM
The earliest references that I can find for 531C is 1983. It is specified in bicycle catalogues I have for that year, but was not specified in the previous year's versions from the same manufactrurers. I realize this is deductive and not definitive, but it's best I can offer.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   531c Decal when 1st used? Raleigh Pro serial numbers? posted by Mike. on 8/5/2003 at 6:21:19 PM
Thanks All,

The frame has been a little bit of a mystery to me as it matches some of the features of the Professional etc. I suspect that frame is 1984 because I seem to remember the the 531c decal came out late 70's early 80's? The frame has 531 double butted tubes with 531 forks. Forks are partially chromed as are the stays with thin gold paint line separating the chrome from the black. Lugs are very nice - pointed with cut outs as on the 77 Professional on the RetroRaleighs site and are outlined with gold paint. Headtube is gold, "Raleigh" is in gold on downtube and 3 gold bands on seatube - 1 large 2 smaller with Raleigh insignia. No other markings. Campy NR headset. All in all a very nice frame. Any ideas? Can send phot if that helps. Mike.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Long reach brakes posted by: David on 8/5/2003 at 10:26:33 AM
Anyone have a clue why such long reach rear brakes were often used? My Paramount and Raleigh Comp both have these. It seems like the bridge could (should?) have been mounted lower and some mech advantage would have been gained. The front is already a much better brake than the rear!

    Long reach rear brakes posted by John E on 8/5/2003 at 2:16:08 PM
Yes, this long-rear / short-front geometry was very common on English, American, Japanese, and Austrian bikes of the 1960s through early 1970s. (MANY of us have the Diacompe clone or genuine Weinmann Vainqueur 999 combination of 610 front, 750 rear. This is true of my 1959 Capo, and it was true of my 1971 Nishiki.) Some French bikes, such as the Peugeot UO-8, tended to have medium-reach brakes front and rear.

I believe the brake bridge was placed high to maximize mudguard clearance. Since a typical rear fender covers almost twice as much arc as a front (half-circle versus quarter-circle), it is a bit tricker to orient and shape it to avoid scraping the tyre.

The only logical reason to provide less leverage in the rear brake caliper than in the front is to reduce the chances of a rear wheel skid; you should be deriving at least 75 percent of your braking force on the front, anyway.

   RE: Long reach rear brakes posted by JONathan on 8/5/2003 at 6:50:25 PM
Quite to the point! My Vainqueur "999"'s are setup to be "right now" on braking. In fact, I need caution in applying the maximum pressure too fast. An inexperienced or unfamiliar rider would find this tricky. As for the longer rear reach (750); my take is that the fulcrum effect is better handled closer to the junction of seat-tube and seat-stays. The further that lateral span becomes, the greater the compressive forces act on the cross piece between the stays. My personal conjecture, based on experience only, is that the Vainquerur's were/are superior products due to extensive savvy on behalf of the maker. The "tail wagging the dog" scenario is not in effect, here, IMHO. Like, would the brake maker go to the bike builder and say; "Here's my brake, now design the bike"? More likely it was just the opposite.
Being near the upper end of the mass range for LW ridership that can ride effectively near the optimum performance cahracteristics of these bikes, brakes are the weak link. Ever look down and see the anchor bolt bend down from a hard clamping? Made me a believer in those Vainqueurs, to be sure. They are sweet. I snap em up when I can, even if I have to buy the whole trashed, wreck of a neglected bike. They're worth every penny. Just my 2...JONathan

   centerpulls posted by John E on 8/5/2003 at 10:31:57 PM
I am always amused by people who feel they must "upgrade" an older bike from centerpulls (be they Weinmann, DiaCompe, Universal, or Mafac) to sidepulls. My worst brake calipers are my first-generation Campag. sidepulls; perhaps because of the high angle at which the upper control arm approaches the pivot bolt, these have LOUSY leverage and are terrifyingly ineffective with most brands of brake pads. With KoolStops, they are marginal, at best. As soon as I am done reassembling the Capo (original 1959 Weinmann 999 centerpulls, thank you!), the Bianchi is getting new brakes.

MISC:   friction; top mount MTB shifters on a LW? posted by: JONathan on 8/5/2003 at 6:05:50 AM
Just like that...I wasn't even looking and a friend gives me a Raleigh "seneca" MTB they didn't want. It is an 80's with friction shifters mounted on top of the bars. As I looked over the tired bike, I couldn't help but think "parts" for my vinatge LW's. I am toying with the idea of placing those friction MTB shifters on a drop-bar Raleigh "record" reclamation project I got going last spring. If I mount the shifters so that the levers are on the outside edge of the flat section of the bars, the idea might prove effective as a compromise system somewhere between stem-shifters and bar-cons. Is this a dumb idea? BEFORE I start routing all the cables and ware, a bit of advice at this point would prove most beneficial. In case you aren't "up" on the Raleigh MTB's, this one could make a decent road-touring bike with 26x 1 3/8 sneakers, thus placing it in the LW general class of bikes. The "575" tubing is very light stuff! Sealed BB and wheels make it a nice candidate for commuting, maybe?
I aired up and spun for an hour on the baylands path with very positive feedback. I think the mid-80's was a new dawn, so to speak, for bicycling. The bikes are pretty cool from that period, immediately succeeding the mini-dark age of the late '70's, IMHO, of course....JONathan.

   RE:MISC:   friction; top mount MTB shifters on a LW? posted by Walter on 8/5/2003 at 11:13:28 AM
B/c of a motorcycle accident I have to shift both changers from the right side of the bars. On my retro Basso I use a bar con for the front and a thumbshifter for the rear. Rather than mount it on the flat I mounted it on the curve so that the band is just under the brake hood and the lever is "inside" the bars and pointing "up." This gives me something similar to the Kelly "Take-Offs" at considerably less price. It also allows me to easily shift when riding with my hands on or near the brakehoods. I feel this is superior to mounting on the flats.

Assuming you don't share my physical difficulties you would install the front der. shifter on the left side and have a bike that is very easily shifted from the hoods and is also pretty easily shifted from the drops or flats. It is an arrangement I had to make but feel it's a good alternative for anyone.

   RE:MISC:   friction; top mount MTB shifters on a LW? posted by Walter on 8/5/2003 at 11:13:47 AM
B/c of a motorcycle accident I have to shift both changers from the right side of the bars. On my retro Basso I use a bar con for the front and a thumbshifter for the rear. Rather than mount it on the flat I mounted it on the curve so that the band is just under the brake hood and the lever is "inside" the bars and pointing "up." This gives me something similar to the Kelly "Take-Offs" at considerably less price. It also allows me to easily shift when riding with my hands on or near the brakehoods. I feel this is superior to mounting on the flats.

Assuming you don't share my physical difficulties you would install the front der. shifter on the left side and have a bike that is very easily shifted from the hoods and is also pretty easily shifted from the drops or flats. It is an arrangement I had to make but feel it's a good alternative for anyone.

   Glad it helped posted by Walter on 8/6/2003 at 12:17:05 AM
Obviously, I'd rather not be in the situation where I had to devise this but I do like the arrangement. Considering Kelly wants in excess of $50 for a set of "TakeOffs" (essentially the same thing) the thumbshifters is pretty economical too.

   RE:RE:MISC:   friction; top mount MTB shifters on a LW? posted by JONathan on 8/5/2003 at 9:56:30 PM
I'll take your setup of the MTB friction shifters, with double-sided configuring, as optimal. Your testing of the idea has been thorough enough to convince me of that. At least it's a good place to start. The flat-surface deploy is awkward and in the way of useful grip area on the bars. Thanks for the description...Cheers, JONathan

    top mount MTB shifters posted by John E on 8/5/2003 at 10:36:23 PM
I like Walter's recommendation. In the past, I have located a Sturmey Archer 3-speed trigger in a similar position (actually, inside the LEFT brake lever, to accommodate simultaneous shifting of the (rear) derailleur in a 3x4 hybrid transmission with a 14-16-18-20 Cyclo cogset on the S-A 3-speed hub).

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old / New Raleighs posted by: Gralyn on 8/5/2003 at 1:53:48 AM
I stopped by an LBS today - one I hadn't been in for a while - just to have a look around. I noticed they had some new Raleigh's. They had the Raleigh Grand Prix, the Raleigh Super Course, etc. I didn't know they were still using the old names. I bought a Raleigh Grand Prix from the 70's a few months ago for a project. The new Grand Prix was about $800. The Super Course was a little over $1000. Do you think that would be comparable with those models back in their early days?....accounting for inflation, etc.?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old / New Raleighs posted by JONathan on 8/5/2003 at 4:59:38 AM
The '70's had a drop in quality, IMHO, toward the end of the decade. The Raleigh RA had 531 tubes in the early period and then became gas-pipe at the end. The Super Course may well reflect a similar, although not as drastic a drop in quality. I haven't seen the "new" Raleighs, but $1000 in the road-bike arena has to be a pretty good steed. The $800 GP has to be good quality to compete with the other makes at that price. Problem is; they lack vintage attributes. I think that $1000 for a Super Course is a better price than what a SC sold for in the early '70's. A good road bike has to be near $1000, so a SC from the '70's at say; $400 new, is about like a $1500 bike in today's $$, IMHO. Personally, I'd take (40) $25 Super Courses from the '70's over one SC of today!...JONathan
I really can't see where the average rider would benefit that much more from the new bike. Just my 2 c's.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old / New Raleighs posted by Walter on 8/6/2003 at 12:10:16 AM
The current parent company of Raleigh, Derby, also marketed Univegas until recently. The Univega lineup had a series of Columbus steel frames with Campy components. Derby recently dropped Univega and moved the Columbus/Campy bikes to the Raleigh line and resurrected the old names.

If you're looking for a modern bike they have a solid reputation. I have one of the Univegas and like it though it's held back by a wheelset that'd be considered heavy in any era. Not too many modern bikes give you Columbus and Campy w/o spending real big money (Colnago MasterXL for example). Of course you could find/restore the "real thing" for comparable or less money too. Your call.

AGE / VALUE:    The Flying Scot. Box lining color, Paint magic of the old school gods posted by: Chris on 8/4/2003 at 4:01:08 PM
The decorative box lining on this Scot looks grey or silverish. Then I realize after removing the fork that it is a beautiful shade of light blue with just a light smitch of silver. More light blue than silver.
There is a smitch of light blue, green/ sliver paint over the red frame color all this on the steer tube that is usually hidden up in the bike's headtube.

This is really, really nice box lining and the color could not be better. This on a tomato soup shade of red that is nicer than any candy colored red.

It is these small, but all important touches that make or break any restoration work on a bike like this.

How do you exactly match this box lining color?
By eye?

I have not seen anybodys work that inspires me to entrust either of my Raleigh Record Ace bikes to and the same goes with this Scot. Not any of my Lenton Sports bikes. Not either of the other two Refg harris Road model bikes either.
I have four and the two are Reg Harris road models and each has different lugwork and different colors in the decals.
That Polychromatic green? Copied? I would hwant to see it on a a test or doner bike and see how it comes out first. If they have it then Hi Ho Silver and off it would go to be restored!
The paint is thicker too, thus the finish looks differently today.
The bike would look artifically new in a cheap sense.
Something would be off, If I get the impression that they feel it is just another bike to be painted and they don't act like they are really busting their tail to make it right. If they only jump thru hoops for the special customer who is a big wig who is known around this then I decline.
I'm hoping to be proven wrong more so, I am hoping that I will be able to change my mind on this in the future.

Raleigh's paints are still lost in the mist of time as far as I am concerned. If somebody has really, really, duplicated it than I am not aware of it yet.

The bronze green, the Flamboyant green, The exact shades of these colors like the Flamboyant or Carmine red.
The polychromatic Lilac on the Ace's.
No. Nobody is showing that they can match this exactly enough to have it come out the other end looking like it did when it left Raleigh's works back in the day.

Or Phillips, or anybody elses and not certainly The Flying Scot folks of David Rattray who were in a class apart.

Who has done their homework and gone in and talked to former employees? Who has the recipe information? Who is taking steps to copy every ingredient and procedure and each special quirky way these folks did things like.
Or are corners being cut and steps left out because of something slipping away.
This was precise and carefully put together. There were labatories in these factories that employed chemists who stood and tested and regulated the things like paints. It was big thing.
Where is that today?
Do the bike painters today have labs of their own? Do they have the notes and information from the original company all stacked up? If so, has this material been researched and figured out? How far did they go to try to get as close as they could.
Has anybody figured out how to compensate for a chemical that is no longer available that throws off the paint mix or has it just gone ahead and then they say That's as good as it could have been done.

I won't hear that when all they want next from me is the check and then they walk away from me and the job. That's too late.
I want to see the prior work interview the owner on what they think.
Does it match the catalog pictures? It should.

Where are the jobber and dealer pictures of the new bikes at the trade shows? Why is it that these are not in demand?
For restoration work?

I am rubbing the lamp and bothering the D'jin of the lamp and I want a test showing of how good the magic really is.
Before hand.

If I'm going to be charged a lot of money and wind up being turned into a toad ( or having been stuck with one, complete with new warts) I might as well know about it now.
Either way, I'll probably tick off the genie. That's fine if I discover beforehand that it can't deliver the goods.

I hired work done and they said they were insured. The truck said so! The man said he would show me after the work was done. The guy rushed past me and had the men there scurrying around and I had told them before I wanted to see written proof first. He ignored me.
I said I would call and check it out and where was the information? So he decided to say he forgot the paper with the licence number and it's expiration date. He had not given me anything. Was not intending to.

I said if you are not insured, get out. please leave at once.
I stood my ground.
He left and guess what?
they were not insured. None of them.
It was a lie. He was doing business without it, lying about it. On the truck, to the customer who gets shafted if somebody falls or gets hurt on the customers property. It is not the company who gets sued.
Don't ever have something done without first checking to see if they are insured, licensed, and who did they train with or did they just wake up and decide to switch to another line of work. Self taught? lets see the prior work? Show me!
People will lie and what are you going to do after the job is done and it is not up to par. It becomes a hassle.
A web page could and should be used to let a potential customer really see the prior work they have done. Put up or shut up kinda of thinking here, Yes!
They put up some date there and lots of times this is not even the same family or individual and "Oh that came with the building and the business when I bought it last fall. It looks good for the customer." Since 1958? Not really. The building is not doing the work a person is.
If they mind being scrutinized then something is off someplace.
"No, actually I have not been at this that long. I just started."

Are you hearing this while holding the thing that you left with them before or after they botched up the job. Shook their head and told you some garbage to get you off of their back. Ask around, do your homework. The waitress said:
Oh I never go to them! You didn't go to them did you?
Wareenties are written so they will never have to really honor it and if so, at a minimal.
Restore a vintage bike? Not until I hear from somebody else. It can be done, it is out there. Whan you do they will say to you?
Who told you about us? It will be like discovering a secret river with gold nuggets in it. The nuggets are the prior work and the past customers.
Most of the main rivers are already panned out usually.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    The Flying Scot. Box lining color, Paint magic of the old school gods posted by Ken on 8/5/2003 at 12:34:39 AM
Chris (and everyone), have you looked at the Flying Scot web site? (I'll post the web address tomorrow, I don't have it here.) Please, no resto on this machine. Keep it original.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    The Flying Scot. Box lining color, Paint magic of the old school gods posted by Corey on 8/5/2003 at 3:23:57 AM
Chris, read this page on color matching on the CyclArt

Have Fun!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:    The Flying Scot. Box lining color, Paint magic of the old school gods posted by sam on 8/5/2003 at 1:57:31 PM
Chris,your first two sentences said more than all the rest.If the color of box lining is not the same as when it left the factory,why would the color of the frame be the same?Sure,the color can be matched by finding a spot that was covered---but when the bike is painted "original" will it look like you though it was ,or will it look as it was?----In no was do I disagree with you about the work or quality of the job.Or even wanting that special color.---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    The Flying Scot. Box lining color, Paint magic of the old school gods posted by Corey on 8/6/2003 at 7:32:21 AM
As an addendum to paint matches, something that Jim
Cunningham mentioned in that CyclArt article, is that
sometimes the chemicals that make up the original paint are
no longer obtainable, or very rare. He tells of one shade
of blue that used an additive that was only available from
Iran. Without it the color would not match. Some other
instances occur where the original chemicals are realized
now to be too toxic to use, and the matcher has to
substitute to get as close as possible.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    The Flying Scot. Box lining color, Paint magic of the old school gods posted by Ken on 8/5/2003 at 7:26:15 PM
Here's the address I promised. Check out the cheesecake:

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    The Flying Scot. Box lining color, Paint magic of the old school gods posted by Fred on 8/5/2003 at 10:22:34 PM
Auto paint suppliers can match paint colors using modern computer tools from a sample of the old paint, however the sample color is seldom the same as new now due to the sample have been subject to aging effects. Dark colors can fade due to sunlight, oxidation, as well as other effects. An area that has not been exposed is the best sample. Good samples can be found under clamps and other frame mounted components. Matching colors is also affected by the fact that colors change a slight amount during curing of the paint. This requires adding a little windage to the process. Knowing just what type and amount of metal flake to add to the mix affects the color match greatly. For all these reasons painting is an art and will break your heart sometimes. If it was easy, more people would be doing it.

AGE / VALUE:   Headset in the Scot- Wish they were all like this! posted by: Chris on 8/4/2003 at 3:53:40 PM
Everything dropped into the tank. A few moments later, these parts were being cleaned off and polished and new grease laid in there and new balls dropped in one at a time.
The thing gleams showing off fine chrome plate. It all came back together so sweetly! No play, it adjusted in a second.
Then the top toothed race back in place.
I wish every headset was the exact Brampton headset like in this: The Flying Scot.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   looking good!! one question? posted by: luke on 8/3/2003 at 6:19:08 PM
hello all,it,s been awhile but i,ve been busy on my 1980
schwinn ''letour'' restore.it now looks brand new with a
super gloss white paint job and i buffed the hell out
of the chrome pieces,so they shine as well!!!
rims are ok,but i may opt for new ones.
it was very cool that i could unscrew the headbadge,prior
to painting with the two micro screw,s.!!
now id like to buy new 3 piece cranks.will i have a
prob with that or should i have saved the old''supermaxy''
cranks that i donated to trash heaven about 4 weeks ago???
well take it easy,luke

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   looking good!! one question? posted by Chris on 8/4/2003 at 5:14:58 PM
Luke said: "Buffed the hell out of the chrome pieces"
An expression, yes.
I grinned.
Still removing accumulated "hell" (or whatever) is never easy. restoring a bike should not be hellish.
Restoring "paradise" all over again is a whole anbother ball of wax and it is far more time consuming and difficult.

I say what I say because whenever I meet up with the really old school folks they bring me in close and say in a low tone: "This is how you do this" and here they have some secret way that they make it look like they do or did. I say "This is how I would do this" and he shook his head at me. These secrets are lost or not told at all because it is a secret.

When shopping for new cranks or other parts it is always best or better to have what came out of it. The guy at the shop will ask: "What was in there originally?"

If you can't show that, then it is impossible or more so difficult to get an idea on what new parts would fit or be an imporvement. Especially if the shop guy is inexperienced.
I would have saved the old part.
Do Supermaxy cranks have any re-sale value on e- bay?
I don't know but you could have checked.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   looking good!! one question? posted by Jimbo Jones on 8/5/2003 at 5:06:31 AM
Yes, IMO you should have kept them. I found them to be quite strong. Much better than the cranks they put on le tours before or after. However if they were worn out they wernt worth keeping. Super Maxys were popular ammongst the bmx crowd, perhaps one could find a set of these with the advantage of the removable large chainwheel.

Whatever you do , do not try to reuse the bottom bracket spindle ( but don't throw it away!) if you choose something other than a super maxy. I am almost certain that the ramp angles are unique. ( could be wrong)

On a side note I beleive that yours is the one year that the Le tour (IV) were actually made in Chicago and didn't just say they were. The seat lug and other parts of the frame are different than any other year. To some people this might make it more appealing.( could be wrong about that too) That being said its not like you destroyed a highly collectable . As a kid I scraped the decals off mine and it has become less recognizeable ever since.