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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   BIANCHI ? posted by: Kevin K on 9/5/2003 at 4:59:34 PM
Hi all. On the way home from town this morning I had to take a detour as the road was closed. Ah. So I decided to cruise the garbage route as it was on the way. First road I turned on, bikes. Yea, more junk I thought. One was a kids bike I dropped off at a friends house, the other was a Bianchi. The Bianchi has no ID on it. Just the head tube, seat tube and down tube decals. All simply say Bianchi. The Columbus tubing decal says something in Italian SLX. Missing stem, bars and brakes. Probally a 55-56 frame. A nice Campy Nuovo Record rear derailleur. Front braze-on Campy. Campy crankset. The frame is unlike any I've seen. Rolled fork crowns embossed with the letters BIANCHI in a half circle go onto blades that get very thin then round out at the bottom. Campy dropouts. The seat stays have the letters BIANCHI embossed in them also, then go fron round to a thin, flat blade then round again twards the rear dropout, a chromed Campy with adjuster screws. The brake bridge is wild looking. Flat to a center peak, then flat again. This aslso has BIANCHI embossed on it. Campy hub with a Mavic rim, stainless steel spokes. No front wheel. Lying on the ground next to the bike was a nice set on Ambrosia sew ups. Two real nice road freewheels included. It doesn't say Schwinn so I'm at a loss here guys. It's light. Nice grren metallic paint with chromed right chain stay. Used but will wax and polish up nicely. I've no idea as to the year of this bike. I've heard of Columbus SLX, but that's about it. Any insight into this bike, it's year and ? would be great. Thanks, Kevin

     BIANCHI posted by John E on 9/5/2003 at 6:00:12 PM
Wow! That is a keeper if it fits you, or a valuable trader if it does not. SLX was a lightweight, high-end Columbus tubeset, and the chromed right chainstay was popular on early 1980s high-end bikes, after half-chromed stays went out of fashion. If it's 55cm C-T, I can take it off your hands. :)

(On the Columbus sticker, look for the word, "Rinforzati," meaning "butted.")

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   BIANCHI ? posted by Gralyn on 9/5/2003 at 6:39:32 PM
Wow! An amazing find! I am so jealous.
I stopped and looked at some new Bianchi's today. They were so tempting! I just can't afford it righ now - so I had to pull myself away. After I left - I thought....I could trade in my old Bianchi. But another thought I had....based on the prices they had on some of their used bikes...I bet if they had my Bianchi - they would have it priced around $600

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   BIANCHI ? posted by Rob on 9/5/2003 at 6:57:14 PM
Terrific find...you never know what you might find...I keep my eyes open and keep trying to learn more, but I try to be fairly easygoing about the search...last weekend I found a low end bike, a BRC, leaning against a fence in a commercial area, obviously abandoned...bars, brake levers, shifters and front wheel gone but the rest was there...mostly low end Shimano early 80's stuff, but for some reason it had a SunTour Vx-GT rear derailleur that looked almost new...no big deal but worth the effort for some of the parts...and a month or so ago, I found a Huret Super Touring rear derailleur in the recycle pile of a second hand bike shop...and a week or later I managed to get the matching front der., but had to pay $5CDN for it...again no big deal, but worth the effort...and I could go on...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   BIANCHI ? posted by JONathan on 9/5/2003 at 7:40:44 PM
Trust your instinct. That kind of event only reinforces my commandment (I only have a couple, which were dearly won) that I be the only one to clean out the garage!
I mean, if it's in the garage, it stays in there unless I decide to toss it. Our "dump" has swarms of employees sifting through the stuff...I can't wait to get away from the broken glass and sharp metal chunks that adorn the surface.
Not like in the old days. Nice find.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: BIANCHI ? posted by Warren on 9/5/2003 at 9:29:22 PM
Absolute race quality frame from the late 80's early 90's. I think it's one of the most desireable of Italian "production" bikes. I'm always looking for one my size.

It's not green...it's celeste...the colour of the royal family at some point.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: BIANCHI ? posted by Kevin K on 9/6/2003 at 1:50:52 AM
Hi all. Well, the Bianchi found a new home just now and I've a new friend in the world of classic bikes. Warren, yea this bike was like a Kelly Green Metallic. I had a Celeste colored Bianchi a few years back. I loved the color, but not the bike. Anyway the Bianchi's in good hands. Kevin

    BIANCHI posted by John E on 9/6/2003 at 3:01:04 AM
A fitting end to a great story. Kevin's Bianchi has to be one of the best dumpster dive or yard sale finds ever posted on this forum!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   BIANCHI ? posted by Tom on 9/6/2003 at 12:52:24 PM
No doubt, this was a fantastic find. However, when I find something really good, I'm always a little suspicious. Why would someone throw out something that is still in good condition and that they obviously paid a lot of money to obtain? Maybe I'm overly cautious, but my first inkling is that it may be stolen. Consequently, I like to take my find to the police station to find if they have a record on it. I've only done this a couple times and haven't had to turn over anything yet, but I know if that had been my bike/frame, I'd be crying to to get it back. Also, I'd hate to think that I had inadverently been an accessory to a crime.

What makes me suspicious are high end frames and bikes, particularly ones without serious damage. A whole bike could simply have been a joyrider, who ditched it in a convenient spot. A whole or partially stripped frame generally is probaly a professional thief. They want to strip the bike quick and dump the frame because of the serial number. Consequently, these frames are stripped of only the parts the thief has an "order" for, or the parts that are quickly removed and readily resaleable.

In Kevin's case, I probably wouldn't have been suspicious because of the extra wheelset and the derailleurs being left on the bike. However, I would still be amazed and probaly would have approached the owner of the house to ensure that it was not thrown out by accident.

AGE / VALUE:   1980s RRA posted by: P.C. Kohler on 9/5/2003 at 4:30:47 PM
Does anyone have knowledge of or an opinion of the final variant of Raleigh's famed RRA (Raleigh Record Ace), the Record Ace 12 c. 1983? This model seems to have been only sold in the UK at least under this name.

From the catalogue I've seen, it was not quite the creme de la creme of the Raleigh range by then. Reynolds 531 frame and fork, Campy derailleur but a real mish-mash of other components. And oddly for that time, 27" wheels. Even mudguards! So interesting as the very last of the club bikes.. but worth acquiring?

P.C. Kohler

MISC:   Am I seeing things or is this a "Death Fork" posted by: Ralph on 9/5/2003 at 3:33:22 PM
Isn't this the famous "Death Fork" I've heard so much about?

   RE:MISC:   Am I seeing things or is this a posted by Tom on 9/5/2003 at 4:23:48 PM
You are absolutely correct! It has the distinctive double holes for pinning the steel steerer tube to the cast fork. This item should be should sold only with a disclaimer stating the inherent safety problems. Some may disagree and say that it should not be for sale at all, but it would have value for someone wanting to restore a Lambert, for display purposes only.

   RE:MISC:   Am I seeing things or is this a posted by Tom on 9/5/2003 at 4:46:14 PM
I decided to send an e-mail to the Ebay seller, advising him of the history of the fork and the potential for failure. I included paths to both the Classic Rendezvous and Sheldon Brown articles, so he could make his own decision. Some you may think this is sticking my nose in someone else's business, but I could not idly sit by when history indicates a high risk of injury to the potential buyer. Hopefully, the seller will relist with an adequate disclaimer, or discontinue the auction.

   fork of death posted by John E on 9/5/2003 at 6:03:47 PM
You did the right thing, Tom. I frequently take advantage of the "ask seller a question" feature to point out safety, identification, and other issues.

   RE:fork of death posted by JONathan on 9/5/2003 at 9:12:47 PM
Brings up a question that I have been wondering about. You know those front wheel "keeper" contraptions that screw into the fork blade and notch into the forkend that are to prevent the axle from coming out of the forkends if the wheel is not bolted up?
That isn't the question, just a preamble. If a person sells a vintage LW, or gives it away, and it is not equipped with the "keepers"; and if the wheel comes off because they did not tighten the bolts; is the seller liable? Just a dumb question, but I've read about
a case.
Chers, JONathan

   RE:MISC:   Am I seeing things or is this a posted by Rob on 9/5/2003 at 10:07:43 PM
Following on what JONathan posted...up here in BC, I think it was last year, there were some 'scare' stories going around that if you sold anything at a garage sale, you could be liable if someone was hurt using whatever it was...I think in reality the courts would try to keep things in perspective, but I guess there is a risk.

There are still lots of garage sales and I haven't actually heard of anyone being dragged into court. I guess a person should make sure that whatever they sell, they do so in good faith, and don't try to hide anything...probably a good philosophy to follow in any event...

   lawsuits posted by John E on 9/6/2003 at 2:58:32 AM
Anyone can sue anyone else for any reason. Disclose everything, give the buyer a copy of your disclosure notice, and have him sign an acknowledgment that he received and read it. My alternative is to donate things to private parties or thrift shos, instead of selling them for cash. Since my pockets are deeper than the thrift store's, I like to have them "launder" my transactions. I get a tax deduction and freedom from liability.

   RE:lawsuits posted by JONathan on 9/6/2003 at 3:44:37 AM
I never thought twice about effecting repairs to a bike. I've rebuilt just about every component for friends and acquaintances. Adjusted stuff, you name it. And now, I sort of get an uneasy feeling that if somethings goes out, it'll come back to haunt.
Maybe I can compose a form (gee I can really use this computer) which absolves any liability for the work...kinda like what I see on software agreements regarding information and on some power tools, etc. There was a MTB at a major dept. store that had a sticker
stating that the bike was not designed for off-road use! Full suspension, too. Pretty scary.

   Death Fork for sale on ebay posted by Steven on 9/9/2003 at 3:46:13 AM
I presently have a "Death Fork" for sale on ebay too. I list all the cautionary statements and such. I also am selling it as a bit of Cycling miscellanea. As for safety aspects, I believe the brakes on any of my pre-1950's bikes cause a far greater risk than the 'death fork'. If you want to see the fork, check it up under the vendor id: dnalsaam

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Want to have info about a batavus posted by: dennys on 9/5/2003 at 3:19:22 PM
Well the history of the bike is that I bought it today for 2 bucks in a thrift store outside of atlanta Ga.The bike is in very good shape and good conditions,just need a cleanup that is all.the question is this i want to know what type and how old is it?the bike is a 10 speed bike with a shimano 600. the serial number is in a plate under the bike like the early 70's peugeot px-10.the Ser # is 5475244.please help me find info about this old bike

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Want to have info about a batavus posted by Tom on 9/5/2003 at 5:33:44 PM
Lacking the decrytion code for the serail number, the next best way to date a bicycle is via component date codes. Of course the parts could be later replacements, so try and find as many coes as you can. The more you find that agree with each other, increases the confidence in the frame date. Please refer to Ship Echert's excellent Vintage trek sit for component date codes( http://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm ).

Assuming the Shimano 600 derailleur is original, that would peg the timeframe between 1975 & 1977, as the this model was superceded by the 600EX in 1978.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Want to have info about a batavus posted by TItlist on 9/6/2003 at 1:45:50 AM
maybe it goes without saying, a lot of info in the archives of this discussion group, on Batavus

AGE / VALUE:   LEATHER WRAPPED ROAD BARS posted by: Kevin K on 9/5/2003 at 2:15:20 PM
Hi all. A few years back I saw a vintage English road bike. The bars were wrapped with leather, then sewn on. It was cool looking. I'm building up a bike that needs a touch such as that to really set it off. I've never seen an offering of one of these wrap kits for sale. Where would one look for an item such as this. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   LEATHER WRAPPED ROAD BARS posted by Tom on 9/5/2003 at 2:45:52 PM
Check out http://www.bikeville.com/stems.html . They have the Fujita leather covering that is stitched on, but at $50.00 it is not cheap. Ambrosio markets a less expensive variation that zippers onto the bar. Not exactly a classic appearance.

I have seen similar covering on some new Cinelli bars, but Cinelli does not appear to make it available separately.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Best garage sale bike posted by: David Pasquarello on 9/5/2003 at 3:22:34 AM
I 've decided to hunt for a garage sale bike. Does anyone have an opinion on the best model and year for a schwinn. I would like to upgrade it for low gears, and low weight. Any help would be greatly appreciated . Thanks!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Best garage sale bike posted by JONathan on 9/5/2003 at 4:46:12 AM
Look for a Taiwan, early '80's "Traveler". 12-speed, alloy wheels and cranks.
The 4130 steel is light. The lug work is excellent. They must have built a lot of them, as I see them in thrift stores.
The Le Tours are nice, but heavier. You won't find a better buy, IMHO, than the "Traveler". Most garage sale bikes are junk that I've seen lately. Mostly MTB of a cheap sort.
Rummage sales are still the best source. I'm waiting for a big one that's coming up soon. Good luck. JONathan

     Best garage sale Schwinn posted by John E on 9/5/2003 at 1:44:23 PM
To me, the best model and year for a Schwinn would be an early 1970s Paramount. :)

On a more realistic budget, I agree that a Japanese Schwinn can be a decent value.

   RE:  Best garage sale Schwinn posted by Gralyn on 9/5/2003 at 2:38:40 PM
Yes, I think for the money - those Schwinn Travelers can't be beat. I have a couple mid-80's USA 4130 frame Travelers. The one I ride most....always take on vacation trips and camping trips for road riding....I paid $6.99 for it. Great bike....light, and rides great!

   RE:RE:  Best garage sale Schwinn posted by JONathan on 9/5/2003 at 4:30:53 PM
I have heard of a Schwinn "paramount" as a GS find; which is like finding a gold nugget under a rock you stumble on in the stream! Although, I keep a lazy eye out for that seredipitous find, like a coyote looking for mice, but with an opportunistic eye out for that rabbit that may jump the trail.
Now, I am excited about an upcoming church RS. They are getting smart with auctioning the more exquisite fare. I liked the days when all the bikes had the same price..and a low one, too. Then, there was the scavenge heap, at the end, with good parts pickin's.
Here's my pick for Schwinns of GS type/regular bikes:
I like the Japanese and Taiwan builts, since they are completely serviceable with standard componentry which is readily available.
1) Traveler
2) Super Sport
3) Le Tour (series)

Exception: I have a Schwinn "World" (Taiwan) that is clunky, but the frame is well built, just heavy with cheapened components...relative to the Travelers and Le Tours.
Just few c's.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Best garage sale bike posted by Mark C. on 9/5/2003 at 5:10:52 PM
My only vintage LW schwinn experience so far is an '84 Le Tour. It's my number one riding bike in my growing stable and was a garage sale steal at $20 with a complete Schwinn light set. I have found that the one draw back for me personally was that the frame is definitely designed for a hunched over stance on the drop bars. It was really bothering my back more than my other bikes. I swap the drops for one of my MTB flat bars with bar ends and now it it much more comfortable. But other wise a Le Tour seems like a good choice.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Best garage sale bike posted by Ken on 9/5/2003 at 5:25:00 PM
Super Le Tour 12.2. (MHO)
In general, if you're looking for a frame to upgrade, forged dropouts (with a real derailleur hanger) are the first thing to check for. Then you can read frame labels looking for db, high zoot tubes. Keep in mind the kind of riding you want to do. Do you need eyelets? etc.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Best garage sale bike posted by Fred A on 9/5/2003 at 5:37:15 PM
My best garage sale find?

1980 MOTOBECANE LE CHAMPION. Full Campy...everything! And my size (25'') frame in beautiful condition from the original owner. $25. I'll never see a deal like that again. Once in a lifetime for sure.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Best garage sale bike posted by Ron on 9/6/2003 at 1:23:43 AM
I got my wife a late '80s Traveller at an estate sale last year. It has TruTemper tubing, made in USA. I think Schwinn had a new factory in Mississippi. It is quite a nice ride for $2. If I could find one for myself, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Best garage sale bike posted by JONathan on 9/6/2003 at 4:20:13 AM
Ron, what size frame? I'll keep a lookout for one. I saw one a couple months back. They really ride in all-terrain conditions quite well. They'll move out pretty decent and yet slug it out on the rough stuff pretty well.
Cheers, JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Best garage sale bike posted by Bob Hufford on 9/7/2003 at 9:47:27 PM

I too found a Motobecane ('83 Team Champion) for $40 at a garage sale two blocks from my house. Pretty exciting moment! David -- also look for Schwinn Voyageur or Voyageur SP touring bikes. Nice bikes!

Best of Luck,


VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by: Gralyn on 9/5/2003 at 2:13:22 AM
What could be wrong here? This is on my Schwinn Traveler (mid-80's, alloy frame). It has the original 6-speed cassette and original chainring....but it had the threads for a 3rd chainring....so I added one. (I also added a longer der. cage).....but anyway, it seems to work fine - except that when I am in the low range, pulling a hill - I'm in the lowest gear.....then it jumps to the next gear (on the rear cassette) on it's own....then.....jumps again to the next. I have tightened the friction shifters again and again....but this doesn't seem to help. I don't seem to have any trouble with it - until it is under strain....then it exhibits this problem. What could it be? Is something out of alighment, perhaps?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by JONathan on 9/5/2003 at 5:10:32 AM
Gralyn, I would first take a look at the angle the chain makes between the small cr and large rear cog. If the angle is offset enough, you might have a problem, just a guess. The smaller cogs are placing the chain at a lower point and with more chain wrap, you may be spared the affliction. Another guess, but it is something to check.
Also, are the cogs worn and/or chain worn? Those can cause a slip, but I find that symptom in the smaller cogs, more than the lower gears. Also, is the cable stretched. They just keep stretching after they start to go south. The obvious is a slip at the cable clamp...figured you have covered that.
My Trav works great with the Arx rear, but I have two chainrings. You've discovered the 80's traveler, have ya? Me too.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by Rob on 9/5/2003 at 6:21:06 AM
Gralyn, can you isolate the issue to one element, ie. if you temporarily put the short cage back, besides a sloppy chain on the smallest ring, does the problem go away? I'm just guessing but I would focus on the chain...maybe it's pulling too tight and is too worn and that's enough to flip it off the cog?

...Schwinn Traveler, eh??...they sound interesting...I think I'll see what I can find out about them on the web...I want to do more research on the Varsity, too...LeTours, I've seen a few around...they look interesting. I remember a nice red one, I used to see on my commute a couple times a week for a few months. ...oh, well...so many interesting bikes...so little time...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by Rob on 9/5/2003 at 6:24:26 AM
...I mean pulling too tight at the bottom of the cog...should prove read these things a little more...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by JONathan on 9/5/2003 at 8:06:36 AM
Another problem is the derailer parallelogram needs to run close to parallel with the chain. That can reduce the wrap if it is angled down from the dropout too much. I have not found this of great importance except when the derailer is near the extreme and put to the test.
Like my brakes. They all work OK, until there is an extreme condition; then the adjustment and integrity of the unit comes to light. Try a SunTour Arx, if you have one. Shimano crane is a finely constructed unit, too. I run both on different rides and never have a problem.
The crane operates off a triple as does one Arx on a MTB. The other is on the Trav.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by Ron on 9/5/2003 at 9:20:38 AM
Sheldon Brown has an article about "Autoshifting" that lists several things to check.

    Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by John E on 9/5/2003 at 1:40:48 PM
Take the bike out to a quiet hill and watch and listen closely as it autoshifts. When you are in the lowest gear, can you adjust the transmission for quiet operation, or is the chain jingling against the cog teeth as though trying to start shifting to the next position? When the shift does come, has the shift lever moved?

Without riding your bike, I am guessing that your frame is flexing under load, and this in turn is pulling on your shift cable, causing your shift lever to advance. Try disassembling and cleaning your shift lever, as residual oil or grease, perhaps from cable lubrication, can keep it from developing enough friction to hold your gear.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by Rob on 9/6/2003 at 12:10:52 AM
I just read the Sheldon Brown article on autoshifting...well, I'll be darned...who would have thought that...Thanks, Gralyn, for bringing up the subject...I'll file in the back of my mind for future reference. Some of these little problems can be annoying...I had an annoying periodic creak when pedalling one of my occasional riders...it took ages to figure it out...of all things the centre part of the freewheel (the cover or bearing race, I guess it is, that you would remove when taking apart the freewheel) had worked slightly loose and was causing the noise...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jumps through 3 gears under strain posted by Jent on 9/7/2003 at 3:15:20 AM
The chain-probably is the problem. Did you know that Schwinn used the same chain for a 5 spd. Stingray as it did for the Varsity 10- speed? Add a link to it and it should be okay. Find out where it was made- if Greenville, MS then toss it. They (Schwinn) haven't made anything good since they left Chicago.

MISC:   Hamilton 2003 posted by: Rob on 9/4/2003 at 5:58:58 PM
I see my post to the Crash, Boom Bang thread below got buried in the middle....I still haven't figured out why that sometimes happens...Anyway here's what I said:

"Thanks, Tom, for the info on Hamilton 2003..Nice to see Hamilton getting an event like that...I was last there in 1989...an interesting city with its own character, but forever caught in the Toronto's shadow, I would say... I'm not surprised to see the routes are centred around the Niagra Escarpment... one of Hamilton's scenic treasures... I remembering hearing during the TdF that Tyler was to be there and I see Lance is, I guess, automatically qualified...Has it been announced if he will be there? I see it's to be aired on the CBC...I hope it won't be just a regional thing..."

   RE:MISC:   Hamilton 2003 posted by Tom on 9/4/2003 at 7:21:01 PM
Rob, thank-you for re-posting. This topic should probably have been a new thread anyway.

I haven't seen anything posted regarding Lance's intentions for the World Championship, though I see has has announced his impending divorce.

I can't believe that CBC would not televise this event on a National basis. Even if they don't, I suspect it will be available in Canada on OLN, as they covered it last year.

Yes, the escarpment is a tough climb on a bicycle. I've raced there several times and I was really dragging my butt after a couple of laps, but then I'm not much of a climber. What did tick me off, was to see that are restricting the Clarement Access to ticket holders. This is the big climb and descent. I understand the restricted access on the start/finish section, but Clartement was a surprise. I guess they have to make their money somehow. Undoubtedly, they can't pack enough people into the start finish straight. I don't think I will be buying a ticket as I saw the course earlier this year at the National Championships and there are lots of other great viewing areas without restricted access.

I'm really looking forward to attending and meeting some of my old racing buddies. If anybody else is planning on attending, perhaps we can all arrange a time and place to meet.

   RE:MISC:   Hamilton 2003 posted by Walter on 9/5/2003 at 1:22:13 AM
No Lance. He seldom races after the Tour. No Tyler. His injuries have caught up to him and he's switching teams next year anyways. No Ullrich either.

A shame though it should still be good race and I'm playing with the idea of hooing up there from Fla. I haven't seen the pro peloton since 1986 or so.

AGE / VALUE:   Lepper saddle posted by: Keith on 9/4/2003 at 5:31:14 PM
I just picked up a new Lepper Voyager leather saddle (from a garage sale if you can believe it). It has Reynolds 531 tubular rails, is tan in color and is very light compared to a Brooks B-17. I know that Sheldon Brown's Harris has the titanium rail model -- http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles/lepper-ti.html I was told that this particular saddle was from the 70s, and wondered whether Lepper made the Voyager during that period.

MISC:   Varnish Transfers posted by: Titlist on 9/4/2003 at 3:27:26 PM
Now, I have a sneaking suspicion, why my Grand Prix decals, transfers, seem to hold up well, like part of the paint themselves, durable and sturdy, it must be this Varnish Transfer. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=420&item=2190423026 Vs. some other mere transfers. The way they did things back whenever, was remarkable, admirable. I have seen many transfers, decals, but not this varnishing part. Must be a little more work, but worth it to put on.

   RE:MISC:   Varnish Transfers posted by Titlist on 9/6/2003 at 2:50:22 AM

Here's a Grand Prix, I'll bet reserves going to be $100, bio pace chain rings, 531, lot of bidding, looks like Raleigh USA. Popular

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hobbs of Barbican "Blue Riband" posted by: Dave on 9/4/2003 at 3:02:36 PM
I have obtained from a older gent in my bike club a 1947 vintage "Blue Riband" w/ Reynolds 531 tubing, hand cut silver lugs, original Hardin rear wheel w/wingnuts,Chater Lea single cottered crank, Brooks Swallow saddle, GB contuer? alloy brakes,Reynolds alloy stem and alloy bar. I plan on replacing the rear rim w/ an alloy 27" one,(the original is dented steel) and have ordered a front hub w/wingnuts,(the front wheel is a old Shimino 700c QR). The Simplex Prestige rear derailler is worn out, the bike had a Cyclo Benelux rear derailler originally, and still has the shift lever and cable for it,(will run up to 5 speeds). Does anyone hee know about these deraillers? I'm ordering a used one from Cycle Art,it has a pull-chain like internal hubs so it most likely needs oil/grease put in. Any reply would be appreciated.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hobbs of Barbican posted by JONathan on 9/4/2003 at 4:15:00 PM
Nice find. My weekly pitstop at Sal.Army store revealed 4 adult bikes.
1) Kent (discussed earlier) "grabber" 10-speed...what a name! Like that's about all it had going.
2) Murray "Illusion"...now that was appropriately named
3) AMF "Roadmaster" clunkiest MTB I've ever seen...the left shifter was facing 180 deg. off
4) Biscayne mixte that was actually a decent ride, but not at $45...1/2 off day=math? Been there for a month acquiring a beautiful brown ochre finish glazing on the steel parts
I've seen a lot of great finds posted...really unusual stuff.
What are you planning to do with it? Could be a great commuter or museum piece...few years ahead?
Cheers, JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hobbs of Barbican posted by Titlist on 9/4/2003 at 4:16:48 PM
Is it sacrilege to say, Ebay has it right now? Maybe info can be culled?


(says a 1954 Derailleur, maybe another too)


Web search it.,

   Benelux derailleur posted by John E on 9/4/2003 at 5:32:23 PM
I originally had one of those on my 3x4 Sturmey-Archer/Cyclo hybrid conversion (standard AW hub with 14-16-18-20 cogset). Since it never could reach 4th gear, I finally replaced it with a Campag. Gran Sport, which shifted MUCH better and had the advantage of not springing into the spokes if the cable snapped. It is a dreadful derailleur, but it is historically accurate for your Hobbs, and the seller is one of the most reputable on eBay.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hobbs of Barbican posted by Gralyn on 9/4/2003 at 5:33:00 PM
I'm keeping my eye out for a nice, unusual, possibly rare find....but so far.....nothing. I had recently found several new "potential sources" for old bikes - but they have all turned out to be dry gulches. I know there are lots of folks out there who have old bikes - and who would give them to you if they knew you liked old bikes. Just the other weekend I had someone tell me that they had traded in their old Raleigh Sprite (for practically nothing)...and that if they had known I liked old bikes - they would have given it to me. Heck, even my brother - after finding I like old bikes - gave me his old Fuji.
Just keep those eyes peeled!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hobbs of Barbican posted by Tom on 9/4/2003 at 6:04:36 PM
John E., a friend and myself did one of those Cyclo/Sturmey-Archer conversion back in the early 70's, though as far as I remember, ours was a 3 cog conversion, making for 9 speeds total. From what I recall, the derailleur worked in the opposite direction to normal. That is to say that pulling the lever back caused a shift to a higher gear and pushing the lever forward caused the spring to push the derailleur up into a lower gear. When you think about it, the concept makes sense; having the spring assist you when the chain has to climb up the sprockets, much like the old Suntour front derailleurs. I also recall that he had to rebuild and re-lube the derailleur on a fairly frequent basis, as it was quite susceptible to dirt getting into the spring housing.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hobbs of Barbican posted by Chris on 9/4/2003 at 6:29:04 PM
Hobbs! All I can say is: Yow! Nice bike!

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hobbs of Barbican posted by JONathan on 9/4/2003 at 7:05:56 PM
Found some data on the Cyclo Benelux. The 24th edition (1960) of CYCLING MANUAL. Interesting stuff in it.
The Cyclo Benelux ad has "Mark 7 racing gear" and Mark 8 tourist model" rear derailers. (Cyclo Gear Co. Ltd. Aston, Birmingham 6).
The text describes the tension mechanism as riding close to the cogs to increase the chain "wrap" around the cogs. In 1960 it must have been a patented mechanism.
The text also address the BB issue with oilers and replacement "unthreaded" units thatcan be swaged into the BB after reamering the old threads. Back to the Benelux. Was available in either a two, three or four speed gear with 1/8" chainor four or five-speed for 3/32" chain. They made chainrings for standard five-pin crank.
This book has records of everything back to 1879! Way cool read. A lot of familiar (to vintage LW population) names. Reynolds and Schrader (valve?) along with E. Sheridan (lady's champion) records. Awesome stuff.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hobbs of Barbican posted by Dave on 9/4/2003 at 7:35:52 PM
Thanks guys. I do have a 1981 Campy NR, somewhat beatup,(from my mid-70's Coppi) that I could install. The Benelux is a Mark7 in excellent/unused condition. Just thought it would be neat to have as much English stuff on it as possible,(I'm also getting a Regina chain and Maillard 5 speed freewheel). I also found a guy in Michigan that can replace the leather brake lever hoods. I was planning on removing,(temporarily), the handlebars on it next year and ride it in time-trials with a modern bullhorn stem/bar/brake set with a clipon aero-bar. It most likely is the lightest bike I have anyway and the 27" wheels cover more ground,(slightely) than 700c's. It does have some rust on the lugs but I'll see what I can do w/Chrome Polish and Aluminum foil. Thanks for the quick response! I also have a "This Old Bike" ride every spring in our bike club, I will have the oldest one now,(my '64 Varsity was my previous entry).

   bandspring derailleurs (yuck) posted by John E on 9/4/2003 at 10:26:00 PM
Yes, Tom, most of the hybrid gear conversions were wide-range 9-speeds with 1/8" chain; I had one with a 13-19-25 cogset. My close-ratio 12-speed also used 1/8" chain, which I am sure taxed the Cyclo/Benelux derailleur past its limit.

The bandspring derailleurs tracked and shifted very sloppily and did indeed require frequent maintenance. The reverse (low-normal) shift pattern meant that the minimum-tension/storage position for the bandspring was the maximum tension position for the chain tensioning spring, and vice versa, and it also meant that snapping the gear cable could thrust the cage into the spokes.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: MOON posted by Titlist on 9/5/2003 at 1:40:36 AM
new finds, I hate starting a thread that pushes other things, down, so,

a bike at a garage sale, will be there tomorrow, is a Moon, orange, V GT derailleur, looks like a Japanese lightweight, all orange, but the logo on the head tube, is that old fashioned (and I mean just from the sixties seems), like a hot rod / surfing type emblem, two ovals, or an 8 on its' side, and they are eyes, looking to the corner, you would know what I mean, if you saw it. The only decor the owner said, was on the fork legs, well, chrome drops, but a long triangle coming down the legs on both sides, in orange, as the bike is all orange. Vanquer Brakes, Suntour Big Sticks run that derailleur. Please respond, cause it seems the bike will be in the garage sale tomorrow, if this is a very worthwhile bike, in real good cond. but a minor ding on the top tube. I wanted to tip it over, to look under the bb, but didn't feel comfortable doing such.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   To Gralyn's Message posted by Titlist on 9/5/2003 at 2:19:47 AM
Righto! on what you say Gralyn, I thought of even posting a message on a Community Bulletin Board. Seems I even saw some board, I thought would be opportune, requesting, bicycles, heck, one could put a message on a telephone pole. Just thoughts.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   To Gralyn's Message posted by Titlist on 9/5/2003 at 2:35:55 AM
well, I will need to get my car back, or a trailor for the bike, but one could request bikes, take the ones at least with me, I dont' need, take them to the coop, the coop, fixes the lower bikes to send overseas, a bit better ones are sold for the coop.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: MOON posted by Jimbo Jones on 9/5/2003 at 6:14:58 AM
99.99999999% sure that is a bike with a moon sticker on it not a moon bike.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: MOON posted by Titlist on 9/5/2003 at 2:22:18 PM

Now, the bike had a Moon sticker at it's headtube. An older retired gentleman owned it, no other decor

Now, I see, there is a modern Moon Cycles ( http://www.cwo.com/'lunarlab/ ) and this other one I saw, seems to be an older bike.

Like there is an older obscure Japanese "Cherry" brand, and a current one in Indiana ( http://cherry.dcwi.com/ )

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: MOON posted by Titlist on 9/6/2003 at 1:32:53 AM
I read an article in bicycling, of a mechanic, Jimbo, in Chicago, makes me wonder, at times, who one talks to here. Thanks for the reply.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   F W Evans touring bike posted by: Doug Wagner on 9/4/2003 at 3:05:52 PM
I bought a lovely 60's F W Evans frame recently on e-bay and am looking for info on the brand and ways to set it up. The frame is in great shape, decals and all, but I'm interested in what sort of shifters would go with the 46/36/26 TA cyclotourist crankset I want to use. Also what sort of bars. I have some NOS Mafac cantis and brake levers,so I think I'm OK on brakes. (It has canti bosses front and rear, and down tube bosses for shifters. )I'm sure it was built for 27" wheels and for 5 speed rear freewheel. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Some photos are at:www.bikebrothers.co.uk.

   :   F W Evans touring bike posted by John E on 9/4/2003 at 5:39:51 PM
I vote for drops, barcons, and a SunTour VGT rear derailleur. I know that last item is a sacrilege to Europhiles, but you will need a good rear derailleur with that 20-tooth drop in front, and a period-correct Campag. Gran Sport won't have the necessary wrap capacity.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   F W Evans touring bike posted by Titlist on 9/4/2003 at 3:36:30 PM
Simply Smashing Website, THX.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by: Tom on 9/3/2003 at 8:36:01 PM
I just thought I'd let you know that the ribs are healing nicely and I'm to the point where I have started to run and cycle again. Needless to say (but I'll say it anyway), the incident has given me the utmost respect for Tyler Hamilton's performance in the Tour De France, after he broke his collarbone on day one! Lance may have won the Tour, but Tyler gave the best performance. Of that I have no doubt!

Most of all, I want to take this opportunity to thank all of you for the "best wishes" you posted after the incident. I would never have expected such a large, spontaneous and genuine response from a group that are technically "strangers". Negative comments seem to be the norm about chat rooms and posting boards, but you guys (and gals) are the exception! Thxs.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by JONathan on 9/3/2003 at 9:40:49 PM
Back on the saddle, is it? That's good news. After reading your post about "dooring", I woke up. Now, I'll go way outa the way to avoid roads with parallel parked rigs. What's an extra mile? Nothin. I'll take my chances with a loose carnivore, before heading down main drags. Most of my routes are like a rat-maze as it is, just to minimize the car factor. Glad to hear the good news. What you been riding? I've seen a few older roadsters out there, the ones with full chaincases. Good luck, recover soon.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Jacques on 9/3/2003 at 10:18:46 PM
Here are some worthy pointers;


Collision Type #2: The Door Prize

A driver opens his door right in front of you. You run right into it if you
can't stop in time. If you're lucky, the motorist will exit the car before you
hit the door, so you'll at least have the pleasure of smashing them too when
you crash, and their soft flesh will cushion your impact.

How to avoid this collision:

Ride to the left. Ride far enough to the left that you won't run into any door
that's opened unexpectedly. You may be wary about riding so far into the
lane that cars can't pass you easily, but you're MUCH more likely to get
doored by a parked car if you ride too close to it than you are to get hit from
behind by a car which can clearly see you.


arked cars are an additional hazard that cyclists have to avoid. Doors will open unexpectedly, and riding far enough from
parked cars to avoid being hit by an opening door is critical for safety.


Parked cars

Ride far enough away from parked cars so you don't risk being hit by an open car door.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Rob on 9/3/2003 at 11:32:44 PM
Glad to hear you are on the mend...and I agree with your sentiments about this site...it is indeed excellent and well disciplined. I've learned one heck of lot about bikes in the couple of years since I 'discovered' it.

As to the '03 Tour I found it an incredibly riveting one this year.... For me the defining moment was Lance recovering on the Luz-Ardiden and amazing run to the finish line...I was watching it live early in the AM..Pacific Time...my jaw must have hit the livingroom floor...where did all the power come from??? I think he absolutely deserved his win...I think, so does all or most of France!!! Talk about holding it in reserve!!! And I was almost equally riveted by Tyler's lone run into Bayonne in Stage 16 (I think it was)...here was a guy with a broken collar bone averaging 60kph...(I think that was it)...to take thet stage... There was also Belocki's stomach churning fall...I still wince just thinking about it. Truly epic stuff. Makes it hard to go back to watching hockey and football and other such tame fare...;) I wish it was easily to see all the European bike racing on this side of the Atlantic...on the other hand I probably waste enough time as it is....

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Titlist on 9/4/2003 at 2:32:43 AM
I am glad, that Tom is recovering as well, who knows how often a serious accident happens.

Me? I always mess the straps up, it seems to my helmets, so, I got a Bell, low price, at XYZ Mart.

And speaking of that which Rob said, I picked up, a current issue of Bicycling magazine, what did I see?

The World Championship is being held on this side of the Atlantic?! But I didn't have enough time, to read it all, but that one day event is going on. And please all, if I don't have all the facts, maybe someone else knows.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Titlist on 9/4/2003 at 3:52:43 PM
Tom must be the consummate gentleman ; humble, helping, and I am awestruck, considering his feats, not to sound patronizing. Probably in the past week or two, I have written to much. Tom, Mike and others have been kind and helpful. A small town, or work pressures, at times, a social outlet is needed. I am doing a bit in another forum, cause I certainly, do not want to bore anyone or bother. But a tip of the hat, to the Canadian, Chicago boys ; as opposed to the haute societe of those, should we say, will remain nameless out of courtesy. A lot of similar names here, mine is, well the same namesake in proper English, but to avoid confusion, I use that Shimano Front Derailleur name, struck me so. Good Day Sir!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Keith on 9/4/2003 at 5:27:40 PM
I'm glad to hear you're back in the saddle again. I agree about Tyler Hamilton being the most amazing rider in this year's tdf.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Rob on 9/4/2003 at 5:57:22 PM
Thanks, Tom, for the info on Hamilton 2003..Nice to see Hamilton getting an event like that...I was last there in 1989...an interesting city with its own character, but forever caught in the Toronto's shadow, I would say... I'm not surprised to see the routes are centred around the Niagra Escarpment... one of Hamilton's scenic treasures... I remembering hearing during the TdF that Tyler was to be there and I see Lance is, I guess, automatically qualified...Has it been announced if he will be there? I see it's to be aired on the CBC...I hope it won't be just a regional thing...

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Titlist on 9/4/2003 at 3:22:59 AM
http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread/t-35673.html confirms it ... should have been able to find more though. World Championship in Hamilton, Ontario, 2003. There's your Euro Racing on this side of the pond.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Tom on 9/4/2003 at 12:45:31 PM
FYI, the official site for the World Championships is www.hamilton2003.com . Fortunately, it is only a 4 hour drive from my home, so you KNOW where I'll be on that weekend! I was also also fortunate with having starting my competitive cycling career in 1974 and managed to see the legendary Merckx win his third World Championship, in Montreal, that year. If any of you are planning on attending the World's, perhaps we could arrange a time and place to meet? By the way, it is a tough course. I saw it earlier this year at our National Road Championships.

Regarding JONathan's question, right now I'm riding a 1990 Rocky Mountain Hammer ATB, converted to street use with some slick tires. My regular road ride is a 1991 Gianella equipped with Dura Ace. I do not have a lot of room for bikes, so my current vintage (> 20 years old) collection is only 7 bikes (3 CCM, 1 Nishiki, 1 Scapin, 1 Legnano, 1 Santana tandem). I've had a lot more over the years, but I seem to be constantly trading them so as not to take up too much space (and money) or offend my wife.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Dave on 9/4/2003 at 1:29:48 PM
Glad to hear of your recovery! I was in France 2 weeks ago and the car drivers are so much nicer on that side of the pond. In the last two days of commuting here I've been honked at at least half a dozen times, and the auto is almost always one of those hideously huge SUV's that you can't see around.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Warren on 9/4/2003 at 1:35:48 PM
Hi Tom...I'm going to Hamilton. I'm going to walk the course for the prelim races and likely get grandstand seats for the men's race.

My daily road ride is a NR/SR equipped Gianella! I don't know anyone else who has one and I know little about it.I bought it on consignment at a shop here in Toronto. Someone told me they were made by Marinoni but I haven't confirmed that. Mine is a blue SL frame...I like it alot.

Give me a shout.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Crash, Boom, Bang - Postscript posted by Tom on 9/4/2003 at 3:14:41 PM
Warren, great to hear from you. Yes, I can confirm that Gianella are in fact manufactured by Marinoni! Gianella is a small shop in Montreal. I know John & Barry, the owners, quite well, having been sponsored by them in the early 90's. If I recall correctly, they were the one of the first shops to carry Marinoni product and he consequently consented to manufacture frames with their brand. To my knowledge, this is the only other brand Marinoni has manufactured.

Being available only through the shop, Gianella are quite rare outside the the Montreal region, though their is a fairly strong following in Ottawa. However, for those in the know, they are a great bike. I live about 2 hours east of Montreal, but our small town of 20,000 probably has over 25 Gianella. As the local cycling coach, I recommended the shop to all my riders. I would measure up my riders and we would drive to Montreal to the pick the frame colour and specify components. A week later, we would pick up the bike, custom outfitted for the new owner. It was great because in addition to specifing a custom mix of components, we could select proper frame size (to the nearest cm.), crank length, stem length, bar width and drop, etc. I never never had a rider who was unhappy with their Gianella, due to the custom fitting we could achieve. The best thing was that we got a custom bike at an off-the-rack price. Of course that was partially because I was doing all the fitting and measuring and the shop was only building what was specified. Regardless, it is a great shop and bicycle.

I'll be back in contact in the near future to set up a time and place to meet. If you have any further questions regarding your Gianella, feel free to e-mail me directly.

AGE / VALUE:   Tange tubing posted by: Tim W on 9/3/2003 at 8:42:22 PM
Does anyone know where I can find info about the types of Tange tubing. I know 'Prestige' is the top, but not much more. A Steve Bauer frame I recently re-built into a speedy commuter is made of, I believe, Tange 900 tubing. Where does that fall in the Tange line?

   Tange tubing posted by John E on 9/4/2003 at 5:37:07 PM

"The second is one of those hugely detailed Japanese sites...it's a bit of slog not knowing the language (and the right fonts), but if you're patient there's lots of good info... "

Since my elder son excelled in Japanese studies in high school, please let me know if anyone needs anything translated -- he needs to stay in practice!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tange tubing posted by Rob on 9/4/2003 at 4:18:48 AM
Here are a couple of interesting sites:



The second is one of those hugely detailed Japanese sites...it's a bit of slog not knowing the language (and the right fonts), but if you're patient there's lots of good info...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tange tubing posted by Tom on 9/4/2003 at 12:18:59 PM
I have a data sheet for Tange tubing from 1988, which is the correct era for your Steve Bauer. The heirarchy for the double butted, steel, road, tubesets at that time was Prestige Super Lite, Prestige, No. 1, No. 2, Infinity and Mangaloy 2001. Tange 900 is not mentioned in the tables though it is referred to in the text as a seamed tubeset, along with the Tange 1000, Inifinity and Mangaloy sets. I also found it mentioned in some 1990 & 1991 price guides and it was ranked below Infinity.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   What is it worth? posted by: Jim Bloomer on 9/3/2003 at 6:49:47 PM
I have a 1970 or 1971 model Raleigh Super Course in 99.9% original condition. Even has original tires. Bike was made in England. I have owned it since 1972. Are there collectors for this type of bike? Any idea what it is worth? I'm willing to sell it.
Thanks for the help.

   RE: Super Course posted by Eric Amlie on 9/3/2003 at 9:13:37 PM
They seem to be pretty popular on ebay. The generally bring more than I think they will considering they are a mid level bike. I won't quote a price as it may make someone here who would like to deal with you on it angry, but putting it on ebay is the way to maximize your potential market and bring the highest price for it.

   RE:RE: Super Course posted by Dave on 9/4/2003 at 1:33:51 PM
A friend has one it's the same green color as my '72 Gran Prix and has 531 Reynolds main tubes, but he likes the "wrap around" seat stays on my Gran Prix better.