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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

FOR SALE:Kent bike posted by: Cal on 9/9/2003 at 3:49:54 PM
Is this one of those KMart Kent bikes or what is it. Looks great. Should I bid or not. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3626084714&category=22681&rd=1

   RE:FOR SALE:Kent bike posted by Tom on 9/9/2003 at 7:42:53 PM
Oh my! How interesting! An SR Silver crankset! This was just about the only crankset to use a spindle with a 3 degree taper, as opposed to the standard 2 degree taper. If the spindle is worn out, you will have great difficulty finding a replacement!

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:Kent bike posted by Tommaso on 9/10/2003 at 4:11:18 AM
bicycle is for sale out of Winnepeg

MISC:Clear Channel, again posted by: Keith on 9/9/2003 at 2:37:26 PM
Sorry again to take up so much room, but I thought some of you might want to respond to this:

Stop Radio 'Hate Crimes' Against Cyclists

The following is from Frank Karbarz of Houston, TX. It speaks for
After reading, please consider voicing your opinion to the people in
authority. We'll spare you the grisly details of the accident. This is
attempt to stop the public airwaves from being used to make light of
cyclists' deaths and advocate intentionally dangerous driving.

On Saturday morning, August 30, 2003, a 20-rider paceline was hit by a
pickup truck near Lake Jackson, TX, in the Houston area. Two cyclists
instantly killed. Eight others were injured. One had to be life
This was a horrible accident. But I'm writing to RBR about subsequent
that sound identical to your story in issue No. 106 about the Cleveland
radio station that advocated hate crimes against cyclists.

On Tuesday morning, the DJs on the local Clear Channel radio station,
(101), turned Saturday's event into entertainment and advocated that
listeners use their car mirrors to hit cyclists. Yes, another Clear
affiliate like in Cleveland!

Obviously, Clear Channel thinks it is okay to continue support of such
hate crime. I wonder how their advertisers feel about potentially
deadly and
criminal behavior.

This is a problem because most radio listeners are steering their
3,500-pound weapon of destruction as they listen to the voices
broadcast by
Clear Channel throughout the entire country.

I urge all cyclists to support a letter-writing campaign to Clear
the FCC, the local radio station program manager, and sponsors. Here
several key individuals:

Mike Powell, FCC Chairman, mpowell@fcc.gov
Vince Richards, KLOL program manager, vincerichards@clearchannel.com
John Hogan, CEO, Clear Channel Radio, JohnHogan@clearchannel.com
Mark Mays, COO, Clear Channel Communications, Markmays@clearchannel.com

Here is my letter, which you are free to modify and use:
John Hogan

President/CEO Clear Channel Radio

200 East Basse Road

San Antonio, TX 78209


Dear Mr. Hogan.:

I'm an avid radio listener and avid cyclist. Given this past
weekend’s death
of two cyclists in Dallas Texas, I’m compelled to respond to your DJs
comments on Houston affiliate KLOL.

This morning your DJs explicitly recommended that listeners use their
vehicle mirror to hit cyclists. Not only is this criminal and deadly
behavior, but it reveals your company’s repeated disregard for
humanity. In
fact, your Cleveland affiliate recommended exactly the same behavior
cyclists in July (article below).

Why do your morning radio personalities nationwide continue to advocate
violent driving behavior towards lawful citizens and users of our

One thing is clear, your DJs communicate to your listeners that
deadly and violent behavior is good amusement and should be encouraged.
Would it have meant anything different if the DJs recommended taking a
loaded gun to a local school to protest overcrowded classrooms? Clearly
DJs comments cannot be considered harmless humor in our society.
Furthermore, these antics are particularly sensitive to your
listeners because of this weekend’s tragedy.

What is Clear Channel Communications going to do to next? In July, you
donated thousands of dollars to cycling advocacy groups when your
affiliate pulled the same stunt. While thoughtful, it did little to
behavior in your company. Are you willing to risk liability of your

Please do not continue allowing your employees to use a tragedy to
perpetuate violence.

--Frank A. Karbarz, Houston, TX

   RE:MISC:Clear Channel, again posted by Rob on 9/9/2003 at 5:50:20 PM
No need to apologize for taking up space on a subject most of us here take quite seriously...I think cycling safety is something that has to be regularly promoted...I recognize in my area that we have it fairly good, not because my fellow citizens are so wonderful, but because of the efforts made over the years by others to promote bicycle safety issues, cycle routes and awareness campaigns...I'm convinced it has to be ongoing...or laxness will creep in. I'm still somewhat startled by how car drivers can treat each other...just yesterday, while I was waiting to cross an interesection, I overheard this comment, "Come on, (blank)wit", yelled at a driver in front who didn't want to push a left hand turn arrow that had turned amber...as you can imagine, the blankword was profane.

In my rather jaded view, politicians will only respond to bike issues or anything else, if they smell votes, or if they are into 'damage control' mode...

One can easily adapt that great revolutionary quotation..."the price of liberty is eternal vigilance"...

I haven't heard of any cyclist deaths this year around Vancouver, though I have hear of at least one serious intersection accident...and safety, of course, is a two way street...cyclists have to be aware as well as drivers...( I've had a few close calls myself with other cyclists going through stop signs with out looking....I don't have a problem with not stopping, but make sure that someone else, car or cyclist, doesn't have more priority than you)...but we don't need idiotic DJ's making the education process more difficult...

Keeping the pressure on Clear Channel seems to be the only way...if every time they air these dangerous comments they run into a big hassle...PR or legal, maybe a message will eventually get through...

   Clear Channel, again and again and again posted by John E on 9/10/2003 at 5:59:01 PM
Hi Kevin. The FCC will not step in unless the public sends them a loud message.

Everyone: please send an email TODAY to the head of the FCC (see coordinates earlier in this thread), asking for a high-level administrative review of Clear Channel's licenses, hiring practices, control over the DJs, etc. Let's put the fear of the FCC into Clear Channel. After four strikes, they should be out!

   RE:RE:Clear Channel, again posted by Tim W on 9/10/2003 at 9:39:58 PM
I have e-mailed all the Clear Channel and FCC reps listed the following message:

Dear Sirs:

I am sending this letter to both Clear Channel, and the F.C.C., to express my deep dismay that the Clear Channel radio station in the Houston, Texas area; KLOL (101), is responding to the automobilist-caused death of two cyclists, and injury of a further eight cyclists, by encouraging automobilists to intentionally attack cyclists using their automobiles as weapons. This is reprehensible, criminal, and can in no way be interpreted as humourous. Certainly if similar attacks were promoted on people in baby carriages or wheelchairs, it would be considered intolerable and promoting of hate. This is no different.

This incident follows on similar recent promotion of hatred and violence against cyclists by another Clear Channel radio station in Cleveland. Is it corporate policy? Has it been somehow been determined to be a message that Clear Channel listeners need or want? Is Clear Channel punishing bicyclists for not having radios to listen to while commuting?

Bicyclists are all kinds of people. Some even work at radio stations! Stop this, apologize, train your employees to know better. If you will not do this, then maybe your radio station network should move its operations to a country that officially condones hatred against whole groups of people.

Timothy Welsh
Vancouver B.C.

   Clear Channel, again posted by John E on 9/9/2003 at 2:47:24 PM
Thank you for your post and your letter, Keith. I urge everyone to write directly to the FCC, to local newspapers, to Clear Channel's sponsors, and to your Congressional representatives. This is now the FOURTH time DJs on a Clear Channel station have engaged in this pathetic abuse of their right of free speech. To me, it is also strong ammunition for the argument against the concentration of public airwave ownership by a decreasing number of increasingly large conglomerates.

   RE:Clear Channel, again posted by Kevin K on 9/10/2003 at 12:29:33 PM
What a warped, twisted mind to find any humor in the fact that people were killed simply riding a bike for pleasure. It shouldn't be up to us as listeners to complain. The FCC should step in at this point on it's own and take the necessay legal actions against this behavior. It is not free speech. Those are words of willful intent to cause harm, even death on an American citizen. We have several police officers here in town that patrol on bicycles. Tell those who feel hatred twards citizens on bikes to drive up onto an officer on his steel and start with the words of threat. No takers I'll bet, and that's what I thought. Real big words from small minds. Kevin K

MISC:Sportif thread posted by: JONathan on 9/9/2003 at 2:41:32 AM
What happened to the "Sportif" thread? Any ideas?

   RE:MISC:Sportif thread posted by Gralyn on 9/9/2003 at 4:41:54 PM
Speaking of Sportif: Here's what I've done so far....
Completely stripped and cleaned the frame.
I started building it back....I put the original bars and stem back on. I put single lever brakes with hoods - instead of the ones with safety levers that were on it.
I replaced the yellow cable guides with clear ones. I was going to put a set of Dia-Compe 500 calipers on - but they wouldn't reach down far enough. So, I put the original calipers back on. It didn't have a deraillieur hanger - so I ended up putting the original der. back on. Since I did that - I went ahead and put the original front der. on, too. I put a nice-looking set of araya wheels with QR and new tires on it. I think it will clean the original wheels and put them back on later. I will use a different crank set. It looks like it's going to end up being mostly original with just a few exceptions.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:Sportif thread posted by Rob on 9/9/2003 at 5:08:56 PM
And a wonderful little cat he is...full of personality and charm...though as much as I love cats, I'll be the first to admit they can be devious little critters...always working their little strategems to get something out of you...ie food, go outside, a good scratch... (I like dogs, too...but they are much more of a time commitment...). Anyway back to bikes...It looks like we might get the Sportif thread going again...:)

   RE:MISC:Sportif thread posted by Rob on 9/9/2003 at 3:44:48 AM
Hi JONathan...That would be my fault...when I posted my reply I closed my keyboard drawer and my phone cord jammed against the "Enter" key....it must of posted my reply a couple of dozen times...I emailed "Oldroads" thinking they would remove my reply, but I guess they pulled the whole post...Terribly sorry...Rather embarrassing....

   RE:RE:MISC:Sportif thread posted by JONathan on 9/9/2003 at 4:34:32 AM
Ha, you have a cat, do ya? They're masters at that. I was curious about the "sportif". I have not seen any. As the entry-level unit in a group, I'd expect a larger number to be out there.
Maybe they're a bit rare. I think it would be cool to have one in stock condition, maybe as comparison piece for Raleigh-USA and Raleigh of England (grand prix, records and RRA). The catalog descriptions are certainly different.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:Sportif thread posted by Jacques on 9/11/2003 at 6:45:02 PM
Le Chat!!! 2191410095 Ebay

AGE / VALUE:T. U. Ranger Ultra posted by: DannyJoe on 9/9/2003 at 1:35:22 AM
I just made road ready what I think is a '70's Japanese made 10spd. It has the name Standard Cycle Co. on the downtube and Ranger Ultra on the toptube, a Ranger headbadge featuring a crown and the letter's T.U. below it.

Rear derailluer is a Shimano Eagle, fr.is a Thunder Bird, shifter's are Shimano New Stem Shifter type. Centerpull's which I replaced with Dia-Comp sidepull's. Rim's were replaced with older SUMO alloy 27x1 1/4. Stem and bar were added(missing from bike).

Sheldon's site had nothing on the T.U. Standard Cycle Co., I found T.U. Cycle's website and they are still doing business. What caught my attention on this particular bike was the stylish cut lugwork, does anyone have any info on this model or company or what year the part's indicate it may have been built? It was sold by Smitty's Bike Shop in Alsip, Illinois, U.S.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:T. U. Ranger Ultra posted by Titlist on 9/9/2003 at 4:49:57 AM
A little bit here, the first is the T.U. company, can not know if they have been around for awhile, the second link, has a more generalized collection of links, on cycling in Japan.

http://www.tu-bicycle.co.jp/ <--- Looks promising.


VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by: Tommaso on 9/8/2003 at 11:57:28 PM

That discussion, not long ago, on the Manganese Bianchis, here 'tis one of them. Little steep price, imho. With a bike you own, you can see if they embellish the image, but who knows maybe they are right.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by Tomasso on 9/9/2003 at 12:36:46 AM
Columbus Tubing, on this one , 80s http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3625111528&category=7298 ; Kalvin selling, nice components, 2 hours remaining.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Manganese & Japanese posted by Warren on 9/9/2003 at 1:11:48 AM
The first bike is on a fishing trip. The celeste Bianchi is nice...a mish mash of parts. That might not be double butted tubing...anyone know about those columbus frames?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by Rob on 9/9/2003 at 1:25:34 AM
On the first Bianchi Item #3625867792 ...I've got the exact same frame and color...except mine is not Shimano equipped, but rather SunTour, Sugino, Dai Compe...The front der. is SunTour BL(Blueline)...shifters are SunTour...wheels were missing, seat missing... I had a spare BL rear der. so I've stuck that on...and I'm still trying to find a suitable rear wheel/freewheel... The tubing sticker is exactly the same..."Hi-Mn P.G. Oji"...I had assumed the P.G. means "Plain Gauge"...Am I right? Does anyone have any comments on the how these frames were setup originally? What were the choices?...The bike I have does not leave me with the impression it is anything other than average...maybe a good average...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by Rob on 9/9/2003 at 5:01:16 PM
Thanks for the info, Tom and Titlist...and Tomasso for brining up the subject...you never know where these threads will lead...lots of good info...I think some of the "decals" may actually be painted on...I'll take a closer look... From what I understand Piaggio tookover Bianchi around 1980..a wrecked low end mid-80's Japanese Bianchi (with at least some Ishiwata tubing) which I've mentioned before, did not have the Piaggio decals...so I guess that's a good way of dating them...probably '81 to'83, maybe??? It also sounds like the Japanese Bianchis had quite a wide range of component brands...mine with the same frame as the the red one mentioned originally had SunTour, Dia Compe...I think the crank is Sakae (I might of indicated Sugino), but the crank model is "Custom" which I think is Sakae...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by Titlist on 9/9/2003 at 4:38:02 AM
I'll check mine, A.S.A.P. Thank you for your patience; mine is a white classica, but has much the same markings and that same sticker. It seems light, somewhat, but seemed I weighed it, it came out to 30 lbs.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by Tom on 9/9/2003 at 1:23:10 PM
The red Bianchi appears to be circa 1980. It has the second generation 600EX components which debuted in late 1978. However, the crankset is not the original 600EX swaged version, but the later one piece version. The ad says the equipment is original and I have no cause to doubt it. Prior to the index shifting revolution, 600 was not regarded as highly and was often found on lower end bikes. I have an all original 1977 Nishiki International with hi-tensile steel frame and 600 components. However, this is not to say that this is the only component selection that came on this frameset. Like most other manufacturers Bianchi probably produced 2 or 3 different models using this frameset by utizing different components. Further variations could be introduced depending on the model year. Regarding the tubing, I also was of the opinion that "P.G." referred to plain gauge.

Regarding the celeste Bianchi, it appear to be mid 80's vintage. Without knowing the model and year however, it is going to be difficult to determine the original components. Normally, one would asume the headset is original, however in this case it's Chorus and normally Chorus would be found on a Columbus SL/SP frameset. Bianchi policy at this time was to call a spade a spade on their upper end frames, so you would see a proper SL/SP stricker on these frames. Superset and Formula stickers were Bianchi's method of saying that the tubeset was a custom mix of tubes, usually with better grade downtubes and chainstays. There was a whole range of Formula and Supersets depending on the model. For instance, I have seen celeste framesets with Tange Supersets that ranged from a Tange 1000/900 mix, up to a Prestige/No.2 mix. The frames in question is a Columbus based Formula II tubeset, which probably means a combination of CroMor and Aelle. The "tubi rinforzati" on the decal translates to re-inforced (a.k.a. butted) tubing.

Regarding components, it was probably originally mid-range Italian, either Camapgnolo Victory or a mish-mash of Miche/Gipiemme/Ofmega/Modolo. Again, it's going to be hard to tell witout knowing the year and model. In the early eighties, Bianchi had reserved the celeste frames for their racing bikes and they tried to keep these as Italian as possible. However, after indexed shifting was introduced, Bianchi realized the Italian derailleurs weren't up to snuff and you would often find Suntour derailleurs mixed with Italian components. By the late eighties, Bianchi was suffering and even introduced celeste bikes with Shimano Exage in an effort to generate sales.

Just to let you know how weird Bianchi could get with some of their mid-range 80's component mixes, here is the original specifications for the 1987 Campione Italia, which sold for $500.00 U.S. Frame: Columbus Formula II, Hubs: Miche, Crankset: Stronglight, Brakes: Modolo America, Derailleurs: Suntour 5000/7000, Pedals & Headset: Ofmega Gran Premio. Imagine trying to find the components to restore that bike!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by Titlist on 9/9/2003 at 2:27:33 PM
AS313886 Serial No. on this offwhite Bianchi small sticker reads "Classica" ; sticker does read Hi-Mn Oji Original Frame Tubes and the Piaggio is on bike as well.

Seems so many early 80s, cerca bikes, I find in plenitude, have near same components,

Suntour AR Fr. and Rr. Derailleurs

Sakae Custom Crank

goes without saying, Dia Compe Brakes, Side Pull, Safety-Suicide levers ;

Bianchi labeled Saddle, rather ordinary again,

handlebars, look a bit above chrome in this case, not light weight, maybe some time, will replace, black handlebar tape,

Araya rims, one unique touch, 27" tires are labeled with a Celeste type of colour, Bianchi .... as are the Bianchi labels on the bike, a bit bluer than Celeste, are those decals Rob? Or are they rather painted on? Mine have worn some, but look okay still.

Made in Japan

Greenfield Kickstand, I keep on...

The bike, might do well, to be called a Training Bike, nevertheless on what has been said, can feel pretty nifty at times, light, glides, I did install clipless pedals; to give it more get up and go. I like my 3 speed, but I can tell, even without clocking myself, some places, I get to quite a bit quicker, on this and another bike I have.

In this one aspect, underemployment may have its rewards, this bike a steal at $15, I humbly say, that said, would it be worth that X 10 then in total ? Nevertheless, nice to have a Bianchi

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by Titlist on 9/9/2003 at 2:52:02 PM
Let it be said, in public places, if I must leave it, Kryptonite lock go on, here it is pretty safe, would double lock if gone two hours, or more.

On what I said about the tires above, don't misread it as the tires are the bluish color, rather a small label. Too, the classica sticker, different from the one on the seatpost tube. Trying to make all this clear.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Manganese & Japanese posted by Titlist on 9/10/2003 at 2:07:36 PM
A lively feel is how one gentleman described 531 Frames, I would like to ride a Raleigh Competition or even Grand Prix, with 531. I've ridden a touring bike, which suffices well in this manner.

It makes me curious as to how this bike's "feel" might be. In searching out a circa 1985 bicycle, if that is the year, this one seems to score many points.

AGE / VALUE:Please school me about Pivo and Bell posted by: Chris on 9/8/2003 at 7:29:48 PM
Where is: "Bell" brand handlebar stems on the "Totem Pole" of handlebar stems.

What about: Pivo alloy stems as well.

Was back in the lair and there is more stuff piled up in the way. Poor customers can't get in the door!
Too much crap in the way!
Universal brakes, Campagnolo cable clips up the wazoo. various kinds a G.B. Superhood brakeset.
a Benelux meadallion, oil fittings for old hubs, cables.

He told me: "No!" On this tool I keep bugging him about.
Had to climb a mountian of bikes and grab onto wheels hung on hooks in the cieling to get back to the book case filled with junk brakes.

I keep praying and trying to call the spirits up in this place hoping that some deceased bike collector dude will appear floating in mid air and hopefully it'll smack me upside the head and start telling me stuff like what to bring back and what to leave.

It could say something like: "If I was still alive I would buy that thing there!"
Nothing happens but thats fine with me.
Anyways this place is peaceful and cool as all get out to hang out in.

I'm going to bring up the subject about getting permission to take video and / or pictures. This place is too magical and I want to have pictures.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Please school me about Pivo and Bell posted by Oscar on 9/8/2003 at 10:23:58 PM

We are the first generation of lightweight-bike collectors. They just recently stopped being old and have been rechristened as Vintage. When I知 all grey, they will be Classic. After I知 gone, they will be Antique. I値l be the ghost you値l find telling you to pick up those Pivos.

Seriously, I don稚 know much about Pivo. I find them on mid-level French and Canadian bikes. They are cute, and they shine up nice. I知 happy to find them in the short extensions, since many stems are too long for me.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Please school me about Pivo and Bell posted by Chris on 9/9/2003 at 12:33:57 AM
Oscar, I am grateful that you replied. Really.
I will pick up all the Pivo alloy handlebar stems and prise open the steel drawers in the parts cabinet and take home the short steel handlebar stems.
God knows what those go to.
It may take me an hour to climb, slither and wedge myself back in there. This after the 1/2 hour drive.

I have the bell alloy stem. It does polish up nicely.
I have the G.B. duraluminum wing nuts and those because they were polished and are made from Dural they shine up so nicely and glow on the mantel.
So any part that may be Dural is something that am looking for.
I do not recognize the names of the many parts that I see scattered and shoved into milk crates and I sit there so long that my feet go asleep.
Oscar, you should see this place!
Please do go cashing it in just yet. We want you to stay with us and be happy and well. If you do pass on and want to visit me in spirit form you may, just please do not go scaring the crap out of me. If I had a heart attack they would never get me out of there in time.
Thanks for telling me that these are picked up and saved by bike folks. I really did not know!
I'm looking forward to the time when more information is on the web so all this is not so mysterious.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Please school me about Pivo and Bell posted by Chris on 9/9/2003 at 12:37:20 AM
I meant to say: Please do NOT go cashing it in just yet. I hope to see you in person shopping at a bike swap meet or at the Cirque if they ever let me in.
Besides, any ghosts that I might see would start picking up parts and bikes and they would cry at what this place looks like today and I think they would put it back together.
The place would be haunted but boy, would it be clean and straight.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Please school me about Pivo and Bell posted by Chris on 9/9/2003 at 12:39:09 AM
I will drop more names of parts and ask what I should do.
After I get back from next visit.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Please school me about Pivo and Bell posted by Oscar on 9/11/2003 at 3:25:13 AM

I'm quite attached to my mortal coil and intend to stay in it for a long time. Pivo might not have graced many high end bikes, but their looks make them worth keeping and using. I'm sure I've seen Bell before, but I cannot place them.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Please school me about Pivo and Bell posted by Dave on 9/10/2003 at 4:28:34 PM
Thae last thing I did for my rebuild on my '72 Raleigh Grand Prix was to replace the original GB stem and bent,(also too narrow) handlebars with a Pivo stem, 3TTT handlebar, aero Dia Comp brake levers,cork taped bar set I got from a otherwise rusted hulk of a Motobecane Grand Touring bike that was abandoned by a college student. I'll use chrome polish to shine up the aluminum and the stem length is perfect.

MISC:Top Headtube Cup posted by: Titlist on 9/7/2003 at 5:17:27 PM
I've got a nice crane headset, a nice aluminum frame from Leader Bikes out of San Diego. I'm missing the top headset cup, wonder if this problem is easily remediable. Those presses are one tool I don't have. Work, with bearings, a lot of such, I don't do. But I am a willing apprentice. Someone I know, is now, aiding me some with this stuff.

   Top Headtube Cup posted by John E on 9/7/2003 at 11:52:03 PM
You can press headtube bearing cups using a long bolt and a couple of blocks of wood; I think Sheldon Brown probably has some information on this. If the cup puts up a fight or if you lose your nerve, any REPUTABLE bike shop should be able to rescue you.

   RE:Top Headtube Cup posted by Titlist on 9/8/2003 at 12:32:42 AM
Thanks ; actually, I have heard of the home made tool you describe.

In this sense, I didn't state my problem correctly maybe.

How about this, I have a Headset, but it lacks, the bearing cup, that goes into the top part of the head tube.

Will I have to buy another new headset?

   RE:RE:Top Headtube Cup posted by Titlist on 9/8/2003 at 12:42:04 AM
John E.

In fact, sorry to all; now I remember, I do have a spare Headset. Now, I am getting by on this problem. Pardon me.

However, it did make me wonder, if headsets, can be mixed, since, the cup going into the top tube did get lost. You can see, in this since, I am not very knowledgeable.

The bearings, are those kind on a ring, forget the word, in the headset. Not loose bearings.

   RE:RE:RE:Top Headtube Cup posted by andym on 9/8/2003 at 3:48:27 AM
I've done alot of mixing and matching of headset parts with alot of success.Its good to have a bunch of spare parts to work with.Some are compatible and some are'nt.You just have to experiment.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Top Headtube Cup posted by Titlist on 9/9/2003 at 12:47:50 AM
Thanks, that does help!

   RE:MISC:Top Headtube Cup posted by Keith on 9/9/2003 at 2:37:15 PM
I have and use a home-made tool consisting of threaded stock, large brass washers, and nuts. It works very well. I've never had much luck mixing headset parts. If you want to just buy a nice but cheap new headset the basic model Ritchey Logic has held up well for me and cost only about $20.

   RE:MISC:Top Headtube Cup posted by Tom on 9/9/2003 at 4:02:49 PM
The home made headset press with washers will work well, with steel headsets. However, you run the risk of deforming the rims on headsets with aluminum cups. To avoid this, check your hardware store for bushings that will press down directly over the flanges that press into the frame's head column. Make sure the bushings are not so large that they seat on the bearing race and that they are tall enough to protrude above the headset cup. Now, the washers will press down on the bushings and the re-inforced area over the flanges of the headset, as opposed to the rims of the headset cups.

Regarding mixing headset parts, this can be a very frustating experience, though it is possible. Often, pieces cannot even be mixed between models from the same manufacturer. Assuming you have the correct size pieces to fit the frame & fork, the most important step is to ensure all the races are designed for the same number and size of ball bearings. If not, the bearings will not seat properly and the headset life will be extremely short! If OK, assemble the upper and/or lower stacks without installing them. Things must turn smoothly when compressing the races together. A slight rocking is OK, provided they are not unstable. Next, do the races overlap sufficiently to prevent easy access of dirt and water? Finally, is the stack height less or equal to the original stack? Shorter stack heights can be accommodated by utilizing extra washers under the locknut. If all this tests out OK, things should work properly after installation.

In the event that the sealing is not quite what you would like, or you cannot use the original rubber/plastic seals, this is easily overcome. Cut a 3 cm. wide band from an old 25C inner tube and stretch it over the stack. It doesn't look pretty, but it works well. I do this on all my mountain bikes. Just remember, if you're using this trick on the bottom stack, you have to slip the inner tube over the bottom cup, prior to installing the fork!

   RE:RE:MISC:Top Headtube Cup posted by Titlist on 9/10/2003 at 4:18:45 AM
Thanks, I'll save these advisories.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:Top Headtube Cup posted by Dave on 9/10/2003 at 4:30:54 PM
Or buy a $3.00 lizardskin headset seal at your LBS

MISC:Schwinn Rolling Rock posted by: Titlist on 9/7/2003 at 4:05:35 PM
This edition, sounds funny to say, it is related to the Beer? or not? excuse me if this sounds silly, it is only a blur in my memory ;

tell you, had my Tri Star Motobecane, Shimano 3 speed, climbed the most difficult hill around, took all weight off that I could. 3 speeds weigh so much, wonder how much more lighter wheels it could take. I've got a 531 frame, and at times, I do ponder, on converting it, in to a Roadster, via, similar to what Sheldon Brown did, on his website, calling it an updated sportster or similar. 7 speed Hub, Nexus or Sachs. Sounds cool.

   RE:MISC:Schwinn Rolling Rock posted by Titlist on 9/7/2003 at 5:25:15 PM
UPDATE: found on Ebay, related to the bike, but a Balloon Tyre bike, looks like. Thanks anyway. Sounded like a Mountain Bike.

   RE:MISC:Schwinn Rolling Rock posted by Ken on 9/8/2003 at 5:14:12 PM
The Rolling Rock was a Chinese repro Phantom with Rolling Rock paint job, which they gave away lottery style in a liquor store promotion about ten years ago, plus or minus. Our beer store guy had his hung from the ceiling for a while, and he offered to trade it for a new color TV. I declined... there must be quite a few of 'em.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Bianchi Catalogs posted by: Gralyn on 9/7/2003 at 2:06:05 PM
I had a link to some Bianchi catalogs.....but I can't find it. My particular year of interest is 1984. I can't remember what form the catalogs were in...maybe .pdf ...I'm not sure. If anyone has the link - could you send to me - or post it?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Bianchi Catalogs posted by Kevin K on 9/7/2003 at 2:51:44 PM
Hi Gralyn. The Bianchi I found the other day was a 1984. Should you happen to get a response I'd appreciate a chance to find out more for the new owner of the bike. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Bianchi Catalogs posted by Chuck Schmidt on 9/7/2003 at 4:34:18 PM
Gralyn, if you go to the "Links" page on my web site you'll find links to catalog scans and all sorts of other sites with Bianchi info:


   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Bianchi Catalogs posted by Titlist on 9/7/2003 at 5:22:45 PM
why does this happen? to me, www.bulgier.net is down?

AGE / VALUE:any help identifying new project bike posted by: jon c. on 9/7/2003 at 5:03:09 AM
started to work on a project bike I have had sitting around for years and thought I should maybe figure out what it is,
it is a 26" cruiser/cantilever style frame,with twin small
top tubes,instead of one main top tube,it has a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub(no coaster brake)stamped 68, it has a
cottered crank ft sprocket with made in england stamped on it,made in england stamped on the goose neck also.
it has two holes for a headbadge that look like it would fit a SEARS emblem.Is this enough info for the vintage lightweight sleuths?
I have already fit a nice crank assembly from a schwinn
world 5 speed,S/R schwinn approved,and have lots of other goodies to put on it. thanks for any help with the Identity
crisis. jon in seattle

   RE:AGE / VALUE:any help identifying new project bike posted by Wings on 9/7/2003 at 6:10:51 AM
Schwinn did make a bike wilth the double top tubes.

I also have one that has the double top tubes and it is a RollFast. It is one of my oldest cruisers and I need to refurbish it! I think yours is different.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: any help identifying new project bike posted by Warren on 9/7/2003 at 12:30:13 PM
...and I think I saw a JC Higgins lke this as well.

AGE / VALUE:RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by: Dorian Smith on 9/7/2003 at 12:18:43 AM
Bought a Raleigh Record Ace at a garage sale today for $10. It seems in good condition. Anything special about this model? I'm not looking for dollar value, just it's unique standing in bicycle history. It has a badge noting Raleigh's success at the 1977 Tour de France, so I think it's a 1978. It's got Sun Tour components but a lot of parts with "Raleigh" etched on them. It has Rigida wheels and seems a bit on the heavy side. Looks nice, though. Is this something to cherish or pass on to a friend looking for a good beater?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by JONathan on 9/7/2003 at 12:52:37 AM
The late 70's RRA changed to 2030 (gas-pipe) steel from the Reynolds 531 of the early 70's. I have a 77/78 RRA; blue color, black trim.
U had another that failed in the right chainstay and dropout worked loose. I brazed it back, but eventually tossed the whole frame when I discovered the steerer tube was bent.
The alloy components went into the parts bins for later use. The good one is pretty flexible with a triple chainring and Arx rear derailer.
The stem shifters are a nuisance to keep bolted tight. This one has made a few tours with full packs and it held up. The lug work isn't as good as my older Raleigh Record from the late 60's.
Check the lugs real closely for tightness...they could build good bikes, it's just in that time period I would not atke it for granted. If everything looks tight, I'd use it for commuting, except a Schwinn Traveler is a better ride for me.
For value, I wouldn't pay what I paid for mine a few years back...$40. I have the 25 in. frame. I like the bike as it was my best bike for a year. The Japanese componentry is readily available for repairs, which is a plus.
Collectibility? Probably not much, IMHO.
They ride smooth..just check for cracks and lug gaps.
Good luck, JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by john on 9/8/2003 at 12:03:19 AM
Dorian: I had a near mint Record Ace like you describe and sold it last year for $45. Frame was too small for me to ride. Decent quality, but it didn't seem to be anything special. Guy I sold it to said he had one just like it when he was a kid and just had to have it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by D.C. Wilson on 9/8/2003 at 6:39:01 AM
Raleigh rescusitated the Record Ace name in the 70s and again in the 80s in a misguided attempt to recall the greatness of Raleigh Record Aces that were among Raleigh's finest bicycles between the late 30s and the mid 50s. During this era, the bike was made of 531 tubing and had top of the line SA rear hubs and high quality rims. The bike came with drops. The Record Ace run ended in about 55 or so. Raleigh reintroduced an almost identical Record Ace Moderne during 57-58 that came with the option of Allvit derailleur shifting (a braze on for the shifter on the down tube is the tell tale sign) or an SA 4-speed FW. This model I am quite familiar with because I own one. Hiduminium side pull brakes, Dunlop rims, Brooks B-17 seat, mud guards (on mine at least) and so forth. The Record Ace was an important bicycle in the history of cycling. It was a premium bike from the world's largest maker. One of the legendary clubmen bikes. The use of its name on lesser bikes in later years was perhaps good business, but unfortunate for it dilutes the sterling reputation of the earlier bikes.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/8/2003 at 12:17:40 PM
Wait a sec here guys.... the steel framed, entry level Raleigh "racer" c. 1970-1986 we're talking about was called the RECORD. Period. No "Ace"! This is a common mistake. This machine was NEVER called an RRA by Raleigh and for all the right reasons. The name RRA was too coveted for a low-end machine like the Record. It was revived, at least for the British market, in the early '80s... see post below... but for a machine of far high specs than the Record.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by JONathan on 9/8/2003 at 4:32:08 PM
My bike has "Raleigh Record Ace" decal and a "20/30" steel tubing decal. Closest date I can discern from catalogs and componentry is late '70's.
Another bike has "Raleigh Record"; no "Ace" in the decal. Based on the Simplex derailers, I'f place it late '60's. However, a '73 catalog has the RRA and Grand Prix listed as having Reynolds 531 main tubes, if I recall correctly.
Maybe someone can resolve the apparent incongruity.
I think my DLT-3 "Sports" from early 70's (SA hub date) has a superbly constructed frame. Less flex than in the RRA. Less of a tank than the "Sports" I need to keep oiled and ready for another. The "sports" is really comfortable to ride...well built and heavy for sport riding. Just my 2.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by JONathan on 9/8/2003 at 4:40:47 PM
Addition: Same sticker for "1977 TDF Team Winner" and "T.I.-Raleigh" Team World Champions, 1978" on the down-tube. Sticker for 20/30 tubing is on the seat-tube. "Made in England" decal on the seat-tube. I'm wondering if the export version had 20/30 tubes?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/8/2003 at 4:57:42 PM
Most odd indeed.... the name RECORD ACE doesn't show in any North American market catalogues of the period (1970-1978) I've owned or seen but again there was a revived RRA for the British market c. 1981-86. One just sold on eBay today for all of 」85: Reynolds tubing, Campy derailleur, 27" wheels, mudguards. Certainly not the top of the line then but just as surely not a steel framed Record.

The machine you have sounds a one-off or....????

By the way, eBay is ALWAYS listing plain 'ol Records as "Record Aces" when the name doesn't appear anywhere on the actual bike. Everyone had a Record in the 1970s if they didn't have a Schwinn Varsity or a Peugeot UO-8! But they sure as heck all didn't have a real RRA.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by JONathan on 9/9/2003 at 4:04:01 PM
Raleigh '78 catalog (pdf) has a page of specifications which has the RRA technical details.
It is listed as "2030" tubes for the frame and forks. The entire list is exactly what mine has; except I changed the cranks to TA 170mm with triple chainrings with Shimano (Deer Head) rear derailleur. This was to accommodate mountain blacktop touring.
The bike is a tad heavy for touring mountains, but the gearing makes up. Just a little slow going on summit hauls. The loaded packs make it a bit noodly, but compensation is not scary, just bothersome. The lugs have slight gaps which just detract from the esthetics.
Sturdy enough frame for normal use. OTOH, check the 73/74 catalog and you'll see Reynolds 531 main tubes, which is consistent with the "image" of the RRA...highest quality materials and workmanship.
In fairness, the triple chainring has a granny which really torques out the secondary triangle...so far, nothing is working loose. The BB is pretty sound and the chain-stays on this particular bike are holding true...keeping my fingers crossed.
It's all academic as I have retired the bike from long-distance touring. A good MTB with hp smooth-tread tires is a formidably comfortable and tenacious touring machine. I still have good recollections about the '78 RRA and it has a comfortable roost on the porch waiting for a back-up call or short-haul to the coast.
THe TA cranks are hard to find, I feel lucky.
Cheers, I hope this clears up some questions....JONathan

AGE / VALUE:Motobecane Mirage posted by: Kristy on 9/6/2003 at 10:50:15 PM
Discovered your site by accident and it's becoming my new hobby.
Have a 1984 Gitane Interclub that I bought new that's really too big for me but I'm restoring
it with help from your archives....but I digress...I picked up a
Motobecane Mirage at a garage sale and am trying to date it just
for fun. Serial # ABOA EOR on bottom bracket. Solida cottered cranks,
Huret Allvit r derailleur and top tube shifters,lugged 1020, Normandy rear hub (5 spd), diacompe brakes/levers, Rigida
rear rim (can't see any date in the little diamonds), Lyotard pedals.
Seems like early 1970's?? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Ever since getting my Interclub (after a Schwinn Varsity) I've been in love
with french bikes and I really like the idea that there are folks out there who
like to restore perfectly useful and beautiful bikes instead of
sending them to the landfill!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane Mirage posted by JONathan on 9/7/2003 at 1:15:17 AM
Nice Moto. Probably late 60's to early '70's. The paint jobs are very high quality on the ones I've seen. They are sturdy frames, too.
Fixed up a beautiful Moto "nobly" (cheap Mirage) lady's frame that is getting some use! A niece may take it for college and my wife digs it enough to drop her
Raleigh "Sports"! I couldn't take the rubber pedals off, either. Why the cheap stuff is desirable beats me, but I say; "Why pay more, if they like the cheap stuff".
I won't asy anything! Ok, now...a Moto "Super Mirage" red/black with gold trim work is my newest addition from a neighbor who wanted a MTB. I think he never rode the S. Mirage
(no air pump) or he'd have kept it. It rides fantastic. Higher quality alloy wheels and cranks with SunTour. Weinmann "Vainqueur" 999's are sweet brakes. It would be a touring bike, except I run a
Miyata "terra runner" with fat-boy tires because of a trailer pull. For credit-card tours, I'd take the Super Mirage any day.
I saw a mirage that was red and had been run ragged in it's components, but the frame was solid, except for a bent in seat-stay which could be bent back. They probably got tagged in the rear, broadside.
I alwmost got it. The paint was in good shape, except wear the stay was hit.
You have a great bike!
The Super Mirage has 43 inch wheelbase and 40/30 high resiliency tubes. Nice bike.
Fix and ride. JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane Mirage posted by Gralyn on 9/7/2003 at 1:49:24 AM
I have a Motobecane Mirage - the only problem is: it's too tall for me. (25" frame). I advertised it locally - but with no luck (and I wasn't asking very much for it either). I only like to collect the bikes I can ride. I'm just wondering what I should try to do with it. Maybe try it on e-bay?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane Mirage posted by Walter on 9/7/2003 at 4:26:18 AM
I agree with the early 70s. When I bought a new Moto in 78 the Mirage had cotterless cranks (probably Stronglight with Motobecane raised lettering, alloy arms with steel rings) and they had just switched to SunTour derailleurs. I think it was after 1975 when Moto switched to cotterless cranks across the entire lineup.

AGE / VALUE:Motobecane Jubilee Sport posted by: Mark on 9/6/2003 at 10:10:30 PM
Picked up a Motobecane Jubilee Sport That appears new. Numbers on bottom of crank are 015000 & 118058992. Bike was bought new around 1980 to 82. Do these numbers ring a bell to anybody. I would say the bike is a 9.5 out a 10, any info would be great.

AGE / VALUE:oscar wastyn paramount posted by: joe on 9/5/2003 at 11:39:18 PM

   RE:AGE / VALUE:oscar wastyn paramount posted by joe on 9/5/2003 at 11:48:27 PM
I am buying a Wastyn paramount from an elderly gentalmen it is all chrome with bsa components, it is a late 30s track bike. The bike is in excellent condition except for a dime sized ding on the forks . My question is what is a fair price to offer. thanks

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: oscar wastyn paramount posted by Warren on 9/7/2003 at 3:42:42 AM
FWIW, a pristine example went for around $1200 on ebay last year and the consensus was that it went cheap. Your conscience has to be your guide on this one...especially with an "elderly gentalmen"

MISC:Cycling Trails posted by: Rob on 9/5/2003 at 5:45:36 PM
Some sad news out of the NW...this has been an extremely dry and a rather hot summer...forest and wild fires have been dramatic...well, they finally got to a well-known and popular cycling and hiking trail near Kelowna, BC. The trail, part of the historic former Kettle Valley Railway has a large number of old wooden (some steel) trestle bridges...the kind made famous in the old Western movies. Apparently 5 of the 18 trestles have been destroyed...and the danger is a long way from being over...a couple of weeks ago, this same fire destroyed about 250 high value suburban houses in a couple of new subdvisions on the Kelowna city limits.

Here are some sites:




I haven't been on this trail,...it's much more than an afternoon jaunt. But friends have, and they say it's something else. I hope it'll be rebuilt...but I guess it's too early to say...

   RE:MISC:Cycling Trails posted by Kevin K on 9/5/2003 at 7:12:19 PM
Hi. Sad story. Next to death I feel one of the worse things a family can experience I watching a home consumed by fire. Let's hope no deaths occur as well. Kevin

   RE:RE:MISC:Cycling Trails posted by Titlist on 9/6/2003 at 1:34:45 AM
Sad, I always think, of wildlife too.

Rode some earlier, this time of year, you see the hawks closer for some reason.

   RE:MISC:Cycling Trails posted by Tom on 9/6/2003 at 3:16:19 AM
I have been watching the fire reports daily until this week. I have been away and did not know about the fire coming back to Kelowna. I was in Kelowna 2 years ago and fell in love with the area. I was almost to a point of moving there. I live in Winnipeg and am still here. I will move to Kelowna area someday. I did not know about this trail until today. Sounds great. I hope the goverment will try to rebuild some of the burnt bridges or continue the trail somehow but the first thing is getting money for the 250 or so families who have no home or personal items. My heart goes out to all the people of BC in this tragic time. There is fires all around the area not just Kelowna.
When I was in Kelowna I did get to see some hotshots on high flying mountain bikes doing some road jumping. I was driving south of the city on a narrow road when I see some bikes coming down a trail at breakneck speeds. I said to my wife they were crazy. As we passed the trail I looked out my rear view mirror to see them jump the road. When we went back I noticed they had a dirt hill by the road to launch them over the road. There was a guy with a video camera taping the jumps.
Anyway I hope things get better for Kelowna and BC.

   RE:RE:MISC:Cycling Trails posted by Tim W on 9/8/2003 at 7:55:25 PM
I am from the Kelowna area (living in Vancouver now), and am rivetted and deeply saddenned by all of the fires around the interior of British Columbia right now.

As for the Kettle Valley trestles, there are now only 4 of the 18 left (12 wooden ones completely burned, 2 steel ones with the wooden railbeds gone). The last 4 are all wood, and still very much at risk.

I rode that trail about 10 years ago, just when they were starting to restore the trestles. It was a very special place that was easily accessible by bicycle. It was also
mid-way along bike tour of up to 5 days through beautiful landscapes. Now, with the trestles gone, the whole route is incomplete. There's lots of talk of rebuilding, but an expected cost of Cdn$ 30 million! Donations are already being collected...

To find out the most current info about the Kelowna fire and the Kettle Valley trestles, check: