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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

MISC:Italvega posted by: JONathan on 2/24/2004 at 6:58:53 AM
Anyone know what was used for tubes on a mid-70's Italvega "Viva Sport"? I have a Univega "Viva Sport" with chro-mo frame tubes and mostly Japanese componentry. The Italian version has mostly Italian stuff. For a reason I can't explain, the Italvega looks more interesting and it rides better than the Univega with same model designation. My Univega "Nouvo Sport" rides better than either one and it looks like a superior made frame. I thought Italvega was TOL bike material, but the one I'm fixing up is just good road machine, nothing to write home about. What gives with Italvegas? Are they like Peugeots, with the Px-10 and UO-8's? This one is on par with a UO-8, except the lug work looks better and the frame seems lighter.
Thnaks, JONathan

   RE:MISC:Italvega posted by T-Mar on 2/24/2004 at 4:19:38 PM
ItalVega were basically re-badged Torpado that were imported by Lawee, who also distributed Motobecane. Like most manufacturers, there was a complete range of ItalVega bicycles. If it's roughly equivalent to a U08, then it's probably basic, seamless, hi-tensile steel. Tullio and Falk were common brands used by other Italian manufacturers during the period, though I don't know what Torpado used on their entry level lightweights.

Randy, who posts on here regularly, has a couple Torpados of this vintage, that are about the same level as the U08. May be he knows the tubing? A buddy of mine had a similar Torpado during this operiod and if I recall correctly, it weas completely chrome underneath the paint, which was transparent. Pics of Randy's Torpado's are posted at http://www.geocities.com/randyjawa/NotMadeInCanadaBicycles.html

   RE:RE:MISC:Italvega posted by JONathan on 2/24/2004 at 10:02:37 PM
Thanks a bunch! I have something to go on, now. The bike is a tad more elegant looking, IMHO, than the direct competition for its day. Based this mainly upon the lug work and seat stay joinery, along with the paint, which is well primed beneath the minor coat scratches..which are surprisingly few in number.
The OEM was Simplex trans and Universals for brakes; alloy fancy embossed bars and stem. I was planning on a fix-up job for someone who found out the frame was a tad big...so he gave it to me! One more for the Italian collection is no problem for me. Was Univega an offshoot of Italvega? My Univega "viva sport" has integral der. hanger and it is chromo tubes. The Italvega is heavier, but it rides real good for me.
The Univega is small for me, which explains the preference that I have for the former. The Univega also has tourist type bars which bang my knees if I don't pay attention pedalling around turns. It also has Dia-Comp sidepull brakes which aren't as good as the Universals ( #61's), IMHO. I may as well finish fixing the Italvega, just for fun. Thanks for the information and NTW, thanks for all the other great bike info, especially about the Panasonics posted up earlier.

   RE:MISC:Italvega posted by T-Mar on 2/25/2004 at 4:14:01 AM
JONathan, my understanding is the the name changed from ItalVega to UniVega. when or soon after Lawee switched to Japanese manufacturers. The main Japanese supplier was my personal favourite, Miyata.

The Simplex Prestige and Universal 61 mix is probably OEM. Many other Italin manufacturers, notably Atala and Bottechia succumbed to using the French derailleur on their entry level models. I don't know if this was because it was less expensive than the Campagnolo Nuovo Valentino, or because they finally realized that the Simplex was actually superior to the Campagnolo offering. For whatever reason, the customer won with this choice.

Too bad your model doesn't have the full chrome job of the proper Torpados. Does it at least have the chrome lugs, fork tips and stay ends?

   RE:RE:MISC:Italvega posted by JONathan on 2/25/2004 at 8:26:24 AM
Thanks, Tom. Can't say there's much chrome on the ItalVega. Just on the fork crown is there chromium plating. I like the painted lugs which seem to create a more graceful appearance...not broken up into distinct junctions which give a partitioned look to the frames. Just an indiv. pref.
I finally got a digital camera so I can post some pics. My computer was so old that I didn't have USB ports to accept the feed from the camera. It will be interesting to compare images against what I get with my 50 yr. BP 35mm Zeiss "Exacta". It makes sense to use the digital since the resolution is on parity with the video cards output. I'm thinking about throwing a bunch of Campy stuff on the ItalVega, just to keep it as Italaian as I can make it.
Who knows, it may be a good one for me to ride as an everyday runner. It handles real slick for a low-end bike, but it isn't too hard to keep up around here as long as I keep on the flats. I'm trying to find out more about those Torpado's. Thanks again, JONathan

   RE:MISC:Italvega posted by T-Mar on 2/25/2004 at 3:04:09 PM
I guess I'm just the opposite. I prefer the the old Italian bikes with the chrome lugs, colour panels and lots of pinstriping.

There a couple of good Torpado sites out there, particularly http://home.earthlink.net/'jcraigking/id18.htm
However, most of the pages are concerned with upper end Torpados and usually of more recent vintage. Randy's page has the only entry level 70's models that I've come across.

I've got the same picture problem as you had. I've held off on buying a digital camera because my current PC only has USB ports. Right now I digitize the output from my VHS camera. It works, but the resoluton is poor.

   RE:RE:MISC:Italvega posted by JONathan on 2/26/2004 at 1:45:51 AM
Yes, I can dig those chromium accents. My late '60's Bottechia is black with chrome on everything, but very few decals.
It is a strikingly brazen looking ride. Like the one on Classic Rendevous, only that one is blue. There are the exceptions, but the solid paint jobs, if they are good, can look very understated cool, IMHO, singularly applied of course.
Well, I have been somewhat impressed with what come out after the pics. are "fixed up" in Corel. For just $149, FUJI has the A210 with 3+ mpix and zoom features. I'm still learning this new century stuff, but at least it's happening...incrementally slowly.
I hadn't thought of the VHS option. Torpado is a cool name, I'd like to find one. The ol ItalVega is lookin pretty good. It'll keep up, no problem. Riding everyday really shows when the weekend fun-rides come about. I'm keeping the Simplex derailer on the bike, as it shifts real good...or rather good enough. It's all relative. They seem to work great until the wear gets em a bit sloppy. I'm not kerclunking the gears like with the Huret (scissors jack) derailer that's on my "sprite" runner.
Good luck with the pics. BTW, the 2.0 USB is 40x faster than the 1.1...I had to find that out the hard way.
Rides, JONathan

   RE:RE:MISC:Italvega posted by JB on 2/26/2004 at 10:44:06 PM
Concur that entry level Italian rides have Simplex gears...My Bottecchia "De Luxe" shifts fine..30 yrs. later..don't feel slighted whatsoever for not having the name "Campy" back there

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Campy Wheel set posted by: marc on 2/24/2004 at 6:53:07 AM

That's the link for a set of wheels I won on ebay. Campy hubs, I especially like the raleigh wheel covers. I was a little upset that the seller didn't tell me til after the auction ended that they were 700C rather than 27 inch which was what I was hoping for. My question is, do you think I'm getting my money's worth? I'm hoping to put them on my bianchi that I've been working on, might need some longer reach calipers now. thanks

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Campy Wheel set posted by Darryl on 2/25/2004 at 3:04:01 AM
Looks like a nice set of vintage wheels. If the hubs are turning smoothly or can be with new grease and bearings you got a good buy. The alloy on the hubs hopefully will clean up pretty good also. Italian wheels back then were mostly 700 sizing.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Campy Wheel set posted by Oscar on 2/25/2004 at 4:50:58 AM
Are they tubulars? They look nice, and high flange campy record hubs look worth in alone. Long reach centerpulls should reach ok.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Campy Wheel set posted by marc on 2/25/2004 at 7:02:30 AM
they are tubulars. The bianchi I have is from the late 60's early 70's. When I bought it I got everything but the wheels. It's a low to mid range bike as it had campy valentino derailleurs and balilla center pulls. What size wheels would it have had originally? 27 inch or 700?

I've got it up and running now with mavic tubulars and its a sweet ride. I know its probably plain guage steel but it seems light and responsive, maybe it's the geometry of the frame. I can really start up on it rather quickly, it seems to jump at the slightest pressure on the pedals. Maybe it's just me and the excitement of a new bike. I'm thinking about changing out the cranks, bb, and brakes, going all campy. The paint is great for being all original. The decals on the downtube are all but gone for half of the "B" in bianchi. The majority of the Bianchi decals are still there on the seat tube. The headbadge is near perfect. I think the frame is worth the upgrades. Does anyone know a source for bianchi decals from this time frame?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thanks for All Useful Information... posted by: Rob on 2/24/2004 at 2:30:10 AM
Tom...thanks for supplying all this immensely useful information...I'm thinking about this this following on the heels of the rather lengthy thread on the Panasonic...I don't see too many Panasonics in my area...are they more common in some areas than in others? The few I've seen have definitely attracted my notice... I guess what I get out of a lot this material, and my own experiences finding old lightweights, is that there are plenty of exceptions and variations, even within a 'model year', if I can put it that way...I've mentioned before a Swedish-built Crescent I have with Huret rear dropouts, and Reynolds 531 forks and Campagnolo front dropouts...and the color, and general patina, suggest this was the original, rather inexplicable configuration...who knows for sure why this may have happened!!! Also, sometimes bike shops and the original owners would spec out a bike differently from what the manufacturer may have intended...There's my Gitane TdF...which I've discussed before...with the beautiful Campy-inspired Sugino crankset...this apparently was not factory spec., but a friend told me about a TdF (which he still has)which he bought in Calgary in 1974...it was a '72 frame which the bike shop fitted out with...you guessed it!! .. a Sugino crankset.. On what is 'originality' based?? (he asks rhetorically...) ...original specifications or orginal condition...I guess it's a debatable point...

All part of the fun of vintage lightweights...:)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thanks for All Useful Information... posted by Rob on 2/24/2004 at 3:06:05 AM
For clarity I should have said that the Crescent is the basic low-end model...nothing special, and rather heavy...but with 531 forks and Campy front dropouts...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thanks for All Useful Information... posted by TimW on 2/24/2004 at 7:18:22 AM
Hello. Funny you should mention about your Crescent. I have city cruiser style 10 spd Cresent packed way at the back of my bike pile (I mean, WAYYYY back). Before parking the back alley find, I noticed 531 transfers on the fork blades, but not on the frame anywhere. I didn't look at the drop-outs, and was assuming the sticker had come off the frame. It is pretty low end, with one piece (Ashtabula?) cranks. I can't easily get back to the bike to lift it again for weight, or see the drop-out makers. But maybe this bike is the same as yours, with 531 forks on a steel frame??? Next time I have cleared back that far, I'll check and let you know.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thanks for All Useful Information... posted by T-Mar on 2/24/2004 at 3:08:14 PM
To my knowledge, Panasonic was not widely distributed in Canada. As you well know, the big selling Japanese bicycle in Canada during the 70's bike boom was Sekine. However, in the 80's Bloor Cycle of Toronto was selling Panasonic, so I'd expect a fair number to be available in that region. Maybe Warren has come across a few? In the 80's Bloor Cycle was Canada's largest bicycle shop and had an aggressive mail order campaign, so Panasonics could surface anywhere, though I think they would be fairly rare. The Japanese bicycle in Canada for the 80's was probably Miyata. I know it was the big seller in Eastern Ontario. From the few Panasonic that I have seen, the quality was very good. My impression was that they were slightly better than Fuji, but not quite up to the standards of Miyata.

Regarding Reynolds 531 forks on otherwise plain bicycles, there is the distinct possibilty that the frame is Reynolds 531, but plain gauge tubing. The 531PG tubes were found on some pretty inexpensive and otherwise unremarkable bicycles. For instance, during the 70's bicycle boom CCM had a lightweight called the Concorde. It had steel, cottered cranks, steel rims, steel seatpost and steel handlebars. This was an inexpensive and heavy bicycle but it used Reynolds 531PG tubing! Maybe your Crescents are similar? The 531 decals are notoriously fragile and it doesn't surprise me when they disappear, especially when they are at the top of the seat tube and subjected to wear from frame fit pumps. While you can usually find some decal remanants, it wouldn't suprise me if an unwitting, previous owner cleaned off the remaining pieces, just because yhey thought it made the bicycle look better/cleaner.

Rob, that was lots of fun, trying to figure out your TDF. However, you know my position on originality. The standard is the original manufacturer's catalog or other objective evidence from the period (i.e magazine road test, advertisements, birthday picture of Johnny with his new bike, etc.). Relying on people's memory can be fraught with pitfalls. Regardless of how reputable a person is, the mind can mix-up facts, especially when they are from thirty plus years ago! Even if we can establish, as in your case, that there was a LBS or manufacturer substitution, this substitution will probably result in a lower resale value to another collector, who would likely base his offer on manufacturer spec'd equipment. So, if your convinced your bicycle is original and you don't plan on selling it, there is no problem, but if you plan on selling it (to a knowledgable collector), you should try for manufacturer spec'd equipment, to maximize resale value. Of course, that's just my personal philosophy. Opinions of others will vary.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thanks for All Useful Information... posted by Rob on 2/24/2004 at 5:37:57 PM
Thanks, Tom...Yes...good points, and for the most part I agree...in fact I've taken the Sugino crankset off the TdF...it's so classic looking and jewel-like I kind of want to preserve it...the original large chain ring was 49-T, which I traded for a 52-T in somewhat better shape...I replaced the set with an early '80's, all ISO, Stronglight set...still not exactly an original configuration...

Tim, I'll look real hard at the Crescent to see if there are the remains of a Reynolds seat tube sticker...but I kind of doubt I'll find anything...even on my TdF, while the 531 fork decal (left side only was the setup)is still there, the seat tube sticker is reduced to some very tiny fragments, with a few hints of the "531" ...and a few stray letters that match the letter placement of a Reynolds French-language sticker...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thanks for All Useful Information... posted by Rob on 2/26/2004 at 8:10:19 PM
I checked the seat tube on the Crescent for a Reynolds sticker...unfortunately it looks like the issue will remain inconclusive...a previous owner had covered the area with a decal of a Disney character (Goofy)...the decal, about 2" high and copyrighted in 1981, is 'see-through', but I can't see any telltale signs underneath, though it's hard to be sure...

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Triumph bike & Vainqueur bike posted by: Joe on 2/22/2004 at 5:46:58 AM
It seams Saturdays are getting better for old bikes at the local flea market. I pulled an old Triumph from a dumpster at the same flea market where I found the Panasonic last week. It's complete sans it's wheels and saddle. It has Huret frame shifters, Alvit derailleurs, Nervar crankset, Alloy GB bars and stem.
It looks to be about on par with a Raleigh Grand Prix. I'll have to really do some cleaning but it don't look bad so far. Another large frame to boot! It looks like it's been sitting for years, it's covered with heavy dust, but the paint looks decent. Best of all it don't look like it's got much rust. The brakes are odd looking though, the sidepull calipers have an aditional lever or arm on the pull side. They're alloy as are the Weinmann levers which have an integral safety lever, it doesn't just slide over the pivot pin, there is no pin showing on the inside of the levers. The calipers are unmarked as far as I see so far. I'll know better once I clean it up. The fork crown is sloped with a chrome cap, the lugs are somewhat plain but they aren't the large oversized lugs like on the Raleigh Sprite. I see no sign of a model designation anywhere, just the Triumph headbadge so far. There is a bicycle registration decal on the seat tube from a police department dated 1971. It's at the top of the seat tube and about 4" long. If there was any decals there, there burried. It's one of those reflective bumper sticker type decals. What made me start to look closer was the fact that the seat post was loose and wouldn't tighten, it's a 25.4 steel post, but is very loos in the frame. It looks like it needs a 25.8 or larger post. The bike feels pretty light for an Alvit equipped bike, but probably still just a mild steel frame. (Much lighter than say a Sports or Sprite).

I also picked up another interesting bike at the same place. (It was a package deal thrown in with an old fishing reel, a $5 Penn reel and a free bike) It reads Vainqueur on the the down tube and Tour de France on the top tube. It's all Simplex Prestige equipped and has alloy bars, stem, and Weinmann alloy rims with Normandy hubs. It's a 23" frame in blue with decals everywhere, the decals cover almost all of the tubes. Seat is leather and says B.I.M. "made in France". The seat post is also Simplex. It's in fair condition, mostly just dirty, but not especially light. Probably around the same as a Peugeot UO-8. I don't see a decal saying where it was made, but it also has a large bike registration decal on the seat post which may be covering some decals.
Has anyone ever heard of Vainqueur bikes?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Triumph bike & Vainqueur bike posted by T-Mar on 2/22/2004 at 1:49:15 PM
The Vainquer bicycles were made in Luxemburg and imported by S/M Multicorp Inc. of Albuquerque, New Mexico. They had a relatively limited distribution and therefore are rare, though not valuable. You appear to have found one of the better models, judging by the rims and seatpost, which by itself, is valuable. It appears to be a step or two up from a UO8. Does the dropout include a derailleur hanger, or does the derailleur use a claw adapter? What is the internal diameter of the seat tube? Other components?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Triumph bike & Vainqueur bike posted by Joe on 2/23/2004 at 6:15:00 AM
The Vainqueur has a claw type derailleur hanger adapter, and 27" rims. The rims are similar to those used on some Schwinn bikes but with regular Normandy hubs. Hubs are nutted axle, and shifters are frame mounted with a clamp and no braze-ons. I'll have to measure the seat post.
The habdlebars and stem are alloy, the stem is strange looking, at least compared to say an AVA or Pivo stem. It has the imitation lug pattern on it like an AVA but has a crude looking bar clamp area. Weinmann centerpulls and levers.
The bike registration decal is dated 1972, but it appears to have several prior decals beneath it.
Any idea as far as when these were made? I am guessing by equipment and the reg. decals, this must be late sixties?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Triumph bike & Vainqueur bike posted by T-Mar on 2/23/2004 at 7:29:34 PM
I have references showing Vainqueur made it through the early 1970's bicycle boom, past your 1972 label. Given the aluminum rims, I'm a little surprised with the nutted axles, however the aluminum rims and handlebar, and the Simplex seatpost are nice touches that make this stand out from your garden variety Peugoeot U08, Gitane Gran Sport, Mercier Model 100 and the various clones. Given that the Prestige was introduced in 1961 and that you have a 1972 registration label (with several underneath it), it would seem to be a pretty safe bet that it is a 60's model. I would probably try to carefully peel off the registration labels. The oldest label is probably the year the bicycle was bought.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Triumph bike & Vainqueur bike posted by Joe on 2/24/2004 at 5:41:11 AM
The rims have Huret alloy wingnuts on them now, but their in rough shape. There's at least 5 layers of old registration decals, they're that reflective, non-peelable type like is used on D.M.V. Tag stickers. They peel off in small sharp pieces. I'll have to bring it inside and let it warm up before trying to peel them off. The bike doesn't look to be too far above a Peugeot UO8, in that the fork crown is a large odd looking piece of stamped steel, and the rear brake bridge is just flat steel.
I can't be sure either if any of the aluminum pieces belong or were added by a former owner. On a brand like this, it's probably nearly imposible to tell.
Either way, the Triumph is probably the better find, as far as condition.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Panasonic DX4000 (cont. from previous post) posted by: Joe on 2/22/2004 at 2:35:56 AM
I was able to remove the broken drop out screw today, it took drilling it out and chasing the threads with the correct tap.
After working on and looking much closer at the dropouts, I realized that they are Shimano GT's and not Suntour. The Shimano logo is obscured partly by chrome plating and the fact that the axle/skewer contact area obscures the logo.
I was wandering if this gives any clues as to whether this was a Suntour or Shimano equipped bike? I have determined that it is a 1983 model by the serial number. The brakes and derailleurs that it came with are all late '83 and early '84. With the exception of the rear derailleur, being an '82. Someone emailed me saying that they had a DX5000 that came with all Shimano 600 components in '88. Would it have been likely to have had Shimano dropouts, and Suntour shifting on one of these as original equipment?
The ARX derailleurs and cable clamp look to be either original or simply having been in place for a long time.
For now, I guess I'll be using the ARX pieces, a Suntour freewheel, and a set of bar end levers. I am planning to get a set of 700/28 tires to replace the IRC 700/23's it came with.
Does anyone have any literature on this era Panasonic?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Panasonic DX4000 (cont. from previous post) posted by Warren on 2/22/2004 at 4:58:29 AM
The '80's were a time of great flux in the bike industry. Suntour and Shimano were now the major suppliers, besting Huret, Simplex and Sachs for the mainstream bike market and were even starting to challenge Campag at the high end. They released new lines frequently. The choice of dropout on a frame would have nothing to do with the final selection of componentry... the market was too volatile. You would spec whatever group that would give you the best pricepoint.

It's my best guess that Suntour was still the first pick on most of the mid to upper range Japanese bikes of that timeframe. By the late 80's, Shimano took charge and never really looked back.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Panasonic DX4000 (cont. from previous post) posted by Joe on 2/22/2004 at 5:43:42 AM
I see what you mean, after looking at the front dropouts, they're Suntour, and the forks are obviously original. (Original matching paint and decals).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Panasonic DX4000 (cont. from previous post) posted by T-Mar on 2/23/2004 at 2:19:46 AM
Joe, glad to here that you were successful in removing the dropout screw.

As Warren states, the component suppliers were price driven and it is unwise to assume that all models from a specific manufacturer used the same brand of components. In fact, the Japanese manufacturers were careful not to sole source components in case the competition came up with a very hot component group the following year. Consequently, it was not unusual for a Japanese bicycle manufacturer to spec the majority of the bikes using one major component manufacturer, but have one or two models spec'd with the other component manufacturer. Many French and European manufacturers had similar polices regarding Simplex and Huret.

However, it was fairly rare to mix Shimano and SunTour on a specific model, though it did happen. Shimano's pricing policies made it cost effective to specify the whole group, especially in the mid and upper levels. On the other side, SunTour was slower to develop full groups and SunTour derailleurs were typically found with Sugino cranksets and Dia-Compe brakesets.

Given the cranks and brakes on your Panasonic, it's a fairly safe assumption that the derailleurs were SunTour. However, I'm also fairly confident that Suntour AR are not original spec. I believe the derailleurs were changed to accommodate the wider range freewheel, which is probably a replacement. I believe the original derailleurs were probably Cyclone II.

Digging farther into my archives, and assuming that your sample is a 1983 model, I found data on four Panasonic models for 1983, the entry level Sport, DX-2000, PT-5000 touring model and the top line AR-6000. The 1983 DX-2000 used a 14-28T freewheel and Shimano 600EX derailleurs, while the top AR-6000 used Dura Ace AX. Given that the DX-4000 falls in between these two, it is unlikely that it would have used the AR derailleurs that are lower than the 600EX and gearing that is wider range than on the DX-2000. The more logical SunTour derailleurs would have been Cyclone II or Superbe/Superbe Pro. However, I would expect higher level Gran Compe brakes with Superbe/Superbe Pro, so given the 500 brakes, my best guess is Cyclone II. The Sprint derailleurs were not available in 1983 and therefore cannot be considered.

The 1983 Panasonic PT-5000 touring bike had a Champion #2 frame, Sugino AT triple crankset, Dia Compe 500 brakes and Cyclone II derailleurs. This sounds like the touring version of your bicycle, and is another reason to believe the Cyclone II are your original spec derailleurs. It would have been cost effective to create a touring model by specifying the same major components as the racing model, but with wider range gearing and some other minor component changes. This practice was not uncommon.

Looking at all this data I believe the orginal derailleurs were Cyclone II, the rims were Araya 700C and the gearing was around 13-24T. Of course, this is all deduction and the only way you'll know for sure, is to find another 1983 DX-4000, or the original spec sheet.

Regarding decals, it would be rare for the decals from a Taiwanese manufactured frame to differ from a Japanese manufactured frame. The graphics and marketing departments spend huge sums of money to design attractive liveries that project a corporate image. Multiple designs would shatter this corporate image. More likely, what you are seeing is a variation in the logo over time (i.e your other bikes are from other years, as opposed to different factories). Up to 1983 Panasonic used a solid coloured logo. Starting in 1984 they went to an outlined logo. Maybe this is what you are seeing?

I don't know when production switched from Japan to Taiwan. In all likehood, there was not a clean switch. It probably took several years, with the lower priced (read lower profit margin) bikes being offloaded first. They probably maintained control of the higher end end bicycles as long as economically possible. Given, that Panasonic had their custom PICS system in place for the top model right up until 1989, there is the distinct possibility that this manufacture remained in Japan.

I hope this helps.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Panasonic DX4000 (cont. from previous post) posted by Joe on 2/23/2004 at 7:49:38 AM
I found some pics of a slightly later DX4000, I believe it's either a 1985 or '86 model. It is equipped with the same crankset as mine, but with Suntour Sprint derailleurs and early Shimano sidepulls and aero levers. It looks to be the same frame, with Shimano dropouts, but with shifter braze-ons on the downtube and an extra set of bottle bosses. The wheels look to be narrow with grommets around the spoke holes. The hubs look to be Suntour, at least the skewers are. I also have a pic of a later model, with all Shimano 600 pieces.
The closest I have to the rims are a set of unmarked, somewhat narrow alloys with spoke hole grommets which are either Weinmann or posibly a higher end Araya? I have lots of Weinmann rims, and 27" Araya's, but no Araya 700c's. I can't even remember having a set here back then. I have a Suntour Cyclone M-II front derailleur, new old stock, but I guess I'll need to find a good rear with a short cage.
With this info, I am assuming that the freewheel should probably be a Winner or Winner Pro series? I have a nos set of Suntour Cyclone hubs that will work well here.

The decals on mine are solid white, sort of a boxy print, and are outlined in black. All of the others I have seen are either multi-colored, or are sort of shaded and have a slant to the lettering. I did find a spare set of decals for a DX2000 at a local shop, but they had no idea what year they were from or how they even ended up with them. The lower decals are the same and the headbadge is the same as well. The badge on the other DX4000 in the pics I found is also very different from mine, mine is only about a 1.5 x 1" rectangle with the Panasonic red and blue logo on a riveted alloy plate. The others I've seen have all been large oval badges that are glued on. I also noticed that on the later models, the 'Hand Made' decal is gone and so is the fancy scroll work on the tops of the seat stays. The later fork crown also has a chrome cap and a "Panasonic" decal along with red Tange II decals, vs. mine with the gold foil, with black and red Champion No. 2 decals.
Do you think I'm correct in assuming a 700c/28 tire size, or would this have had a narrower tire?

Does anyone have a real nice used or NOS Cyclone M-II they would like to part with?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Panasonic DX4000 (cont. from previous post) posted by T-Mar on 2/23/2004 at 6:25:24 PM
Joe, I think 25mm tires would be more appropriate than 28mm. The 1986 & 1988 models were spec'd with 25mm, while the 1987 model came with 23mm. Also, the 1983 AR-6000 was spec'd with 25mm tires. However, it's not something I'd be losing sleep over, if you prefer 28C and they will fit.

Regarding the freewheel, an interesting side note is that the 1983 PT-5000 is spec'd with an Ultra 6 freewheel. I wonder if the DX-4000 was the same? If the rear dropout spacing, without the wheel in place, is 120mm or just over, then it was probaly an Ultra 6. Given the era, the original freewheel was probably a New Winner (which was availabl;e in standard 5, ultra 6 and ultra 7)or a Microlite (ultra 6 and ultra 7).

For the era, the rims were probaly Araya 20A. Spoke count was probably 36, as even the top AR-6000 had 36 spokes per wheel. I still have a set of 20A, laced to Dura Ace EX rims, and I can attest to their quality.

If you can find them, I would be going with a Microlite front derailleur and shifters. They are the type that uses the thin, endless band technology, similar to a hose clamp. SunTour were pushing these heavily in 1983, based on ads and other SunTour equipped bicycles.

You make an interesting note regarding the head tube bage/label. I often find that these change more frequently than the rest of the graphics and provide a better means of judging dates. Unfortunately, most catalogs and road tests use side shots, so you don't get a good look at the head badge. The pics I have for 1983 matches your general description, though the corners are rounded. 1985 pics show an oval label. The badge changed again by 1988 though it's not clear as to the shape. It appears to be tri-coloured swasheson a clear label. The 1988 bikes definitely have italicized downtube logos, with a contrasting shadow effect. Going backwards, I recall the 70's bike boom models as having a small, rectangular, plastic(?) tri-coloured head badge. The relief was quite pronounced, as I recall, with it sticking out about 5 mm from the headtube.

Have fun restoring and riding it.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Panasonic DX4000 (cont. from previous post) posted by Joe on 2/24/2004 at 5:29:09 AM
The rear spacing is 126mm, it actually measures on the wide side, about 129mm. I am assuming it was a standard spaced freewheel.
The Cyclone M-II front derailleur I have is the band style clamp, but the rear I have is a long cage and in rough shape.
Do you have a pic of a set of Araya 20a rims?
I posted a side view of the frameset and headbadge at: http://www.bikepics.s5.com/
It's a large pic so give it a little time to load.
The headbadge is definitely aluminum, (the frame holes are the same as those on a Panasonic built Schwinn). I have seen the molded plastic badges, they are usually accompanied by the multi colored decals.
If I use the rims I have here, I might use the 25mm tires.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Panasonic DX4000 (cont. from previous post) posted by T-Mar on 2/25/2004 at 3:21:41 PM
The Araya 20A was was a narrow, standard box-section (as opposed to aero box-section), hook beaded rim for high pressure tires. They were only 13mm between the flanges and used double eyelets, which probably contributed to their strength. There is no model identifier on the rims as they were Araya's only standard box section rim at the time. Basically, they were an equivalent model to the Rigida 1320. I'll foward some pics later to-day.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Tires Tires Tires posted by: marc on 2/22/2004 at 12:38:51 AM
About a month or so ago I posted about finding some quality tires for our vintage lightweights. Well I would like to make a suggestion. I picked up some bontrager sport tires for my super course and they ride great! Very smooth, pretty fast too. I checked the bontrager website and the MSRP is 15.00, my lbs had them for 9.99!!! Looks like Bontrager makes some higher quality tires in 27 1/4 but these were the only ones the shop had. Can't beat the price, they're about the same price as the dept. store tires. They're black wall and with the bontrager logo they really look sharp on vintage bikes IMHO. They give them a bit of an updated look, they look sporty, but still maintain the elegance of vintage machines. I'd suggest if you guys are looking for some new tires you pick up a set and try them out, for the price I think they're worth a try.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Tubular glue removal posted by: Darryl on 2/21/2004 at 9:47:57 PM
I just picked up a Rossin time trial bike. It is Super Record equipped with 650 front wheel and 700 rear. It is 12 speed and the rims are tubular. Two sets of wheels came with the bike and I would like to know if anyone knows a good way to remove old glue from the rim. They are gummed up pretty bad and I would like to get some or all off. I also will be looking for a decent 650 clincher rim (32 hole) Thanks, Darryl

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Tubular glue removal posted by marc on 2/22/2004 at 12:37:45 AM
My suggestion is "Goo Gone." That's exactly what the stuff is meant for, glue, gum, all sorts of stuff. You should be able to find it at a home center like home depot, or even at a drug store like walgreens or CVS. Just spray some on, let it sit a minute or two, and to make the job easier use some very fine steel wool and it should come right off. I use it on my sew up rims and it gets them completely clean.

AGE / VALUE: posted by: Jesse on 2/21/2004 at 1:05:23 PM
hey, ive got a ccm very rare banana seat bike its like in the 60s or 70s.It doesnt have original color, tires, rims but the rest is original.please respond if you have heard of this bike

   RE:AGE / VALUE: posted by T-Mar on 2/21/2004 at 2:52:44 PM
Sure, it's probably either a Marauder, Mustang or Cheetah. The Marauder used a wedge shaped frame design with a triple clamp fork and triple rear stays. Notably, it had elevated rear stays so you didn't have to break the chain for removal. The Mustang was a more conventional, double diamond design, though the curved seat stays continued forward past the seat tube and attached to the down tube. The Cheetah used a conventional girl's frame. Which one do you have?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: posted by Jesse on 2/21/2004 at 3:12:12 PM
I think its the marauder. Because it has the split frame in the back for the chain removal. Are these marauders rare or have you seen lots?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: posted by Steven on 2/21/2004 at 7:03:54 PM
What does this have to do with vintage lightweights? Please sue the appropriate list.

AGE / VALUE: posted by: Jesse on 2/21/2004 at 1:03:26 PM
Hey I have a all original mint condition red superdeluxe Rapido 3-spd 20 inch bike made in czekosolvakia but i dont know what its worth. Please email me if you have heard of this bicycle. Thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE: posted by Steven on 2/21/2004 at 7:05:05 PM
What does this have to do with vintage lightweights? Please use the appropriate list.

AGE / VALUE:bike posted by: judy on 2/20/2004 at 11:04:55 PM
we have an old bike it has belt drive and solid wheels we would like to know if is worth anything its 100 years old its a small bike we can send you a picture of it if you think you can tell us anything thank you judy baker

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:old fuji palisade posted by: Bob on 2/20/2004 at 5:21:31 PM
I'm not a big bike aficionado, but was cleaning out storage and came across an old "Fuji Palisade." I think it's been laying around for 8 years or so. Can anyone tell me what this is and if it has any value? Has a VALite frame, Suntour derailer/shifters, Sugino sprocket, Sansin (sp?) rims/locks. Appears to be a mix of aluminum/alloys because after 8 years in storage nothing is rusty! Many thanks for any insight.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:old fuji palisade posted by T-Mar on 2/20/2004 at 9:04:15 PM
What you have is closer to 20 years old! The Palisade was an entry level, sports/touring model from the mid 1980's. Fuji are typically a well made, dependable bicycle. As you state, the components are almost entirely aluminum, though it's still no featherweight at an advertised 27 lb. Sansin is the correct spelling, though you often see Sanshin, probably because it more closely resembles Sunshine, which is the name the hubs were originally marketed under and which I've read is the English translation. I wouldn't consider it collectible, but it is still a nice bicycle and would make a good recreational/commuting bicycle.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:old fuji palisade posted by JONathan on 2/21/2004 at 9:44:11 AM
FUJI was cranking out dozens of models in the mid-80's, and the Valite steel was unique for strength and durability. You have a bike that was built to last, and which probably rides great.
Take a close look at the construction of the frame, you will notice tight and well finished joinery of tubes and lugs. Probably not much rust either. I'm looking for a valite FUJI, but they just ain't around, probably because they're still pushing the pavement.
I have one FUJI ('86 "Team"), and it is my best bike, hands down. Tune it up, ride it and then ask how much you'd have to fork out for a modern bike, off the floor, that matches the ride? You'll come up with a number. Trying to sell it at that figure, today, would be tough.
The main reason, IMHO, is one has to know what a good ride is supposed to be like, before any real change happens. Just 2 c's.

AGE / VALUE:Schwinn Super Sport posted by: Mike Stone on 2/20/2004 at 5:18:07 PM
Hey fellows, I received a curious phone call today from a woman who got my name from a friend of a friend.

She bought a Schwinn Super Sport at a thrift shop for $4.00. It seems there was a squabble over the bike as another buyer was anxious to buy it too. This woman heard from several sources that the bike could be worth as much as $12,000.

That seems like a lot of dough, but I haven't been keeping my eye on the Super Sport. One thing she did mention that would make this bike unique is the size. She says that the bike has an enormously high frame and her 6' tall son can't ride it because it is so tall. Maybe the frame was made special and that makes it unique. I heard that the Super Sport had a brazed lug Chromoly frame.

What do you guys know?

   Schwinn Super Sport posted by John E on 2/20/2004 at 7:54:56 PM
Hi Mike,
The SS indeed has a fillet-brazed CrMo frame, making it considerably lighter, rarer, and more valuable than the Continental it resembles. $12K sounds VERY high, but these are sought-after bikes. The tall frame is probably a 26", which Schwinn did make for several years, in addition to 24" and 22" frames.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Schwinn Super Sport posted by Dick in FL on 2/20/2004 at 11:14:17 PM

The Schwinn Super Sport was a *fillet*-brazed bike .... no lugs. It was built in the same shop as the Sports Tourer. The best way to distinguish it from a Varsity is to lift it. Otherwise, in a stroke of marketing ineptitude, it was offered sharing colors and appointments with the Varsity. The former Schwinn dealer in these parts offers nice specimens to well-heeled collectors for $350, the same price he asks for Suburbans. He admits to being overpriced.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Schwinn Super Sport posted by Oscar on 2/21/2004 at 4:16:53 AM
I bought one for $10. I found one in the alley. I found another frame behind my office building.

I'm rich!!!!!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Schwinn Super Sport posted by Mike Stone on 2/22/2004 at 5:44:41 PM
Thanks for the replie, Fellows. I have to confess to having parted out a couple of Super Sports over the years because they looked like Varsities and I did not recognize the rarity or value. My apologies to our fellow collectors.

This woman says that the seat tube is something like 34". That doesn't seem right, but it does sound interesting. She lives out-of-town, but I might go have a look just to satisfy my curiosity.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to what I could look for to make this even more interesting?


   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Schwinn Super Sport posted by Oscar on 2/23/2004 at 12:26:54 AM
Original equipment on Super Sports were nearly identical to Continentals except for a Brooks saddle and alloy rims. I have stripped off the heavy crankset and swapped in a three piece crank converter and different wheels for a faux cyclocross bike. I did similar swaps to another bike and used a three speed rear wheel for a 27" faux club bike. Both bikes are heavyish, but with great, stable rides.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:???Schwinn Super Sport posted by JONathan on 2/23/2004 at 8:44:48 AM
I, too, have an exceptionally large framed "sport tourer", which was made in parallel along with the "super sports" during the 70's. However, unlike my '71 "super sport", the '80 "sport tourer" has a lugged frame and was branded by Giant. The huge frame has me baffled. It's at least 27" from center-spindle to seat-tube lug top. The 27 inch wheels look quite strange and appear dwarfed by the frame. The '71 "super sport" is oval badged, fillet-brazed chro-mo frame. I wonder if the fillet brazed frames were phased out in the early '80's; possibly with increasing production of the chro-mo branded bikes with lugged frames, but keeping the same name. I think that the "super sport" was knocked out of the lineup before the "sport tourer"...it's more stately cousin.
The 3-piece conversion kit was developed as an upgrade from the one-piece Ashtabula cranks. The 36 inches you mention may be measured from the ground to the top of the seat-post. I recall that a 27-incher was available, although they are rare enough. I'm keeping the "sport tourer" because of its unique character. I have real good visibilty riding it. Dismounting requires special attention.
Happy ridin. JONathan

AGE / VALUE:Robin Hood Lenton Sports posted by: Oscar on 2/19/2004 at 3:50:18 AM
I haven't found an interesting roadside bike in a long time, but I brought home a looker tonight. It's a gold colored Robin Hood Lenton Sports. I've seen Robin Hoods and Lentons, but never the two names on the same bike. The lugs look like the chunky ones used on Raleigh/Robin Hood/Dunelt threespeeds, and it has a cottered crank (52-42 I think).

She's a pretty one, though no thoroughbred. Anyone else see one?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Robin Hood Lenton Sports posted by P.C Kohler on 2/19/2004 at 6:42:03 PM
No, I haven't seen one of these either.. intriguing!

More details please!!

Wheels (are these Dunlop 26" x 1 1/4")??
Handlebars (steel, dropped, on a chrome stem?)
Frame: Reynolds 531 main tubes?
Chainwheel: three-pin detachable or?)

If yes to the above, seems a "badged" version of the Triumph Torrington which in itself was a slightly downmarket version of the Raleigh Lenton Sports, Rudge Pathfinder and Humber Clipper. The Torrington had a plain chainwheel like a Sports, cheaper saddle and an ordinary AW hub.

Post 1955 Triumph was the economy line for the Home Market (UK) and Robin Hood for export markets.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Robin Hood Lenton Sports posted by Chris on 2/20/2004 at 1:43:17 AM
Is there a Reynolds 531 frame tubing sticker on this bike? Is there a Robin Hood bike out there with a Reynolds sticker on it?

One of my Reg Harris's Raleigh Lenton Sports had a "chunky" type lug and the other had really artfully done ones. Same paint, same decals, same everything except a major lug difference!

I would love to see a 531 Robin Hood "Super" Sports with all the lightweight goodies on it.

The early ladies Robin Hood bike that I had was a early Raleigh made Robin Hood and the rims were special. They were 26 X 1 1/4 or something weird I have not seen since. They were steel not stainless or alloy and it's been too long to remember except I wish I never let go of that one.

Still, with the wonderful paint and how special it was the frame was still the same.

A 531 Robin Hood? Not seen one yet!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Robin Hood Lenton Sports posted by Oscar on 2/20/2004 at 4:15:15 AM
Some more details:

I found this bike as a practically stripped frame, so there were no wheels, derailleurs, or handlebars.

There is no 531 sticker nor a ghost of one where I would expect to find it. There is a "Robin Hood" decal on the seat tube and "Lenton Sports" on the down tube.

The crank is a three-pin Nervar cottered crank. The frame fits 27" wheels, and I must guess that the brakes were sidepulls since there aren't any hangers for a centerpull brake.

The paint is gold with no chrome forks or stays.

So,fellas, what should I do with it?

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Robin Hood Lenton Sports posted by Warren on 2/20/2004 at 4:23:26 AM
I had a similar frame..a gold Raleigh Lenton Sports, white headtube from the mid 60's. It was a lugged straight gauge Sports model, plain and simple.

Keep it if you want it...mine ended up in the tip.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Robin Hood Lenton Sports posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/20/2004 at 4:19:10 PM
The last Lenton with 531 was the Grand Prix in '61. The USA Raleigh catalogue for '62 still shows a "Lenton" but I suspect this was a 2030 steel tubed machine... low end but using the traditional steel chainwheel and cranks of the classic Lentons, steel handlebars and stem and an AW rigged up with a Cyclo-Benelux four-speed derailleur. So maybe this was carried over in production c. 62-63 for Robin Hood. The gold colour (actually called Sunset Yellow) was a real classic of this period.

P.C. Kohler

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:needing some advice posted by: marc on 2/19/2004 at 1:04:01 AM
I've been working on the 60's bianchi I picked up and I've run into a bit of a problem. I was cleaning the brakes and while I was taking them apart I realized one of the caliper bolts was stuck and did not allow the caliper to move, I soaked it and then while I was trying to loosen it, the bolt broke. The caliper now moves freely, the bolt did not unscrew, it just broke off above the threads. My question is, Is it safe to use this brake as it does seem secure or should I just replace it. I'm not sure how hard it is to find balilla brakes. I wonder if could drill it out and try and find a replacement bolt.

Next problem. I've been riding the supercourse and loving just about every moment of it. The problem is, I don't like the position of the brake levers, I have to stretch my hands too much to reach them. I know you're saying, just adjust them, but I want to try and preserve the original handlebar tape that came with this bike. Any suggestions?

Also, how does one identify a Peugeot PX-10? Is it just a matter of serial numbers? Will one of these bikes have PX-10 as a prefix? Just curious, thanks.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:needing some advice posted by Oscar on 2/19/2004 at 3:46:07 AM

I don't follow just where the bolt broke, and if it did break, what's holding the brake on? I've seen Ballila brakes around (always centerpull) and they're not too extremely hard to find. If you can get the bolt out, try to substitute a Weinmann bolt to see if it fits. The parts box of your favorite bike shop should have a bucket of centerpull brakes for parts.

It sounds like you want to remove the handlebar wrap above the brake levers, then move the levers up. Depending on how supple the wrap still is, you have a decent shot at it. If you screw up, you can re-wrap the bars with cotton bar tape, which would be period-correct. Don't settle for brake levers that are uncomfortably positioned.

It's not too difficult for the trained eye to spot a PX-10 from a UO-8, even if the white and black schemes seem identical. A PX-10 has nicer lugs, not the ones with the Axtec-looking steps cut into them. It also has a Stronglight cotterless crank (in the shape of a star). Lesser models have cottered cranks.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:needing some advice posted by poguemahone on 2/19/2004 at 3:02:16 PM
Px10's up to about 1979 will have half chromed rear stays. There are two types of lugs prevalent on most PX's up to that date: either very ornate nervex lugs (generally pre 1972, although the '73 PX10e has the ornate lugs), and a simpler, more rounded design, common in PX's from 72 and later. A PX10 will also have an integral derailleur hanger/dropout (marked "simplex"), where the UO had a claw (PAs and PKs also had the integral hanger, as well, but lack the chromed rear stays). If a PX has the original paint, it will be either white or blue (I have seen a special edition in black), with the lugs on the headtube painted black. Also, take a look at frame stickers; "inoxyadable" indicates a PX, "tube special allegre peugeot" a UO. Reynolds stickers are also a giveaway; however, read them, because PK's have Reynolds, but only in the three main tubes. 531 stickers on the fork would indicate PX10.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:needing some advice posted by marc on 2/19/2004 at 7:53:50 PM
thanks, you saved me from spending 60 bucks on what I thougt could have been a px-10 It's still tempting as it is in rather nice condition. Looking at it again it really is more of a touring bike. The paint is near perfect, red, nice lugs, only the fork is chromed. Thanks for the info, I know what to look out for now.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:needing some advice posted by T-Mar on 2/19/2004 at 8:16:02 PM
Marc, I appreciate your not wanting to move the levers, as the original, vinyl, handlebar tape is notorious for taking a permanent set, especially where wrapped around brake levers.

The simplest solution is to install a set of safety levers (yeah, I see everybody cringing). The safety levers provide a shim between the front lip of the lever housing and the brake lever itself. This effectively moves the brake lever closer to the handlebar. Of course, installing safety levers would requiring butchering the Carlton hoods, which you probably don't want to do.

The alternative is to fbricate a shim to sit between the front lip of the lever housing and the lever itself. A shim about 3/16" thick should move the levers about 1/2" closer to the handlebar. The easiest shim would be to bend rod in a tight "U" and itsert it over the top, front edge of the lever. it wouldn't be pretty, but it would be functional. Alternately, you could turn and drill a piece of cylindrical stock with a wider flange at the top. This would be inserted into the top of the lever and would be almost unoticeable, especially if fabricated from aluminum.

reagrdless of which approach you select, the decreased lever travel available will require more careful set-up of the brakes. Good luck!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:needing some advice posted by marc on 2/20/2004 at 10:20:32 PM
Well I was able to make some minor adjustments to the levers without damaging the handlebar tape and it seems to have made a considerable difference although I haven't been able to test the bike today since it's been raining here in chicago. I've been looking for some NOS handlebar tape and it seems that schwinn green tape looks fairly similar, I wonder if anyone has any first hand experience in comparing raleigh and schwinn tape? I found some for 5 bucks and I guess I'll get it, it's a low cost risk.

FOR SALE:   Nervar Star NOS crankset for sale posted by: Jim on 2/18/2004 at 11:55:30 PM
If interested please drop me an email.I have a beautiful NOS set available!!!!Would consider trades fro anything Campy or BMX related or just plain old cash ;).


   Nervar Star NOS crankset for sale posted by John E on 2/19/2004 at 8:54:14 PM
For those unfamiliar with it, the Nervar Star cranks look like Stronglights, whereas the rings resemble early Campag. Records. The nonstandard 128mm BCD poses a bit of a problem, although one can easily elongate the mounting holes of a standard 130mm ring to fit the Nervar spider (been there ... done that ... quite successfully).

Please post pedal threading (ISO 9/16x24 vs. French 14x1.25), tooth count (52/42?), and crank length (170mm, other?).