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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   cool peugeot posted by: Warren on 3/4/2004 at 2:13:51 PM
This is very nice low end radonneur model...


I've never seen one with those integrated colour-matched racks...beautiful! Too expensive to ship however.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   cool peugeot posted by JONathan on 3/4/2004 at 6:15:16 PM
Thanks for the lead on that one! That one is in museum quality. Mine is a UE-8...I think. Simplex derailers on mine; metal light housing, AvA stem (that's not good) and Mafac "racer" cp brakes. The chainguard is absent on mine, possibly they didn't OEM the guards on the export versions. The lugs and drive train look the same as do the fenders and rack.
All I need is the rear tail-lite lens. The front lens is cracked, too. $99 seems cheap, except when, as you pointed out, the shipping costs push it way up. $170 for shipping a bike!? That's unreal.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   cool peugeot posted by Don on 3/6/2004 at 2:13:46 AM
Brings back memories, I commuted on a Schwinn of the same vintage & general configuration from 1960 to 1964 in the beach area of Los Angeles. Same 5 speed shifter on the top tube, fenders, rack etc. It was a real tank on the hills but I was young & strong then. Don

WANTED:   Cinelli bar & stem posted by: Dan on 3/4/2004 at 1:41:18 AM
I'm looking for a Cinelli 1-E Handlebar(400mm or 420mm) and Cinelli 1-E stem(90mm) for a restoration project on a late '80's road bike. I found the stem on ebay only to lose the bidding. I only know the model's as 1-E's, are there any sites which deal in the vintage parts I need?

MISC:   Peugeot Brochure Online posted by: Joe on 3/3/2004 at 10:16:21 AM
I just wanted to let anyone who is interested in Peugeot that I have posted a copy of a Peugeot Road bike brochure which I came acrossed from a Peugeot Distributor back in the mid 1970's. It can be fopund at: http://bikepics.s5.com/
Just thought it might be of interest to some. It sort of gives the basic description of the Peugeot line up back then. Give it some time to load as is it's scanned in 100% size.

     Peugeot Brochure Online posted by John E on 3/3/2004 at 3:07:31 PM
Thanks for scanning and posting. I am having trouble identifying the precise date of your brochure, because:
1) By 1974, Peugeot had changed to simpler lugs than the ornate ones pictured.
2) Before 1972, the only UO-8 colour options were white, blue, and green. The expanded colour offerings, including a gorgeous "champagne," came a year later.
3) The omission of Peugeot's entry-level econo-racers, which were available by 1972, the PA-10 and the PR-10, is curious. The PA-10, never popular in the U.S., was dropped in the mid-1970s, but the PR-10/PK-10 series lasted into the early 1980s.

   RE:MISC:   Peugeot Brochure Online posted by poguemahone on 3/4/2004 at 4:27:33 AM
The location of the 531 details and the fancy nervex lugs, along with the design of the decals on the pictured bike, indicate the catalog is 1973 at the latest. The drawing is similar to my 73 PX10E, which had the fancy lugs and the 531 decal on the seat-tube. The 1972 PX10 has the same decal scheme, but plain lugs. Post 73, the 531 decal is on the down tube. I have an earlier PX from sometime between 67-69 with another decal scheme entirely; I haven't been able to date it exactly yet. Looks like an early 70's cat to me.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Peugeot Brochure Online posted by Joe on 3/4/2004 at 8:34:50 AM
The page has no date or copyright on it, it was found in a binder from the distributor whom was selling these to the dealers. I got the impression that this was more an artists rendition of the bike, and certainly not an exact picture. Also, keep in mind that they may have used the same pic for several years. The backside of the same page shows LeJuene bikes. I will post that later. The same binder also contained Motobecane brochures. The dealer may have also kept updating this binder with the latest pages and updates to the catalog. I have no way of telling.
I also believe I remember being told that certain distributors had rights to different models, this particular supplier may not have sold all available Peugeot models.
The page posted may not have been published by Peugeot, but by the distributor who was selling them to the local shops. The dealer from which I obtained this from had sold Peugeot from around 1970 onward, so it's entirely posible that they are earlier.

   RE:MISC:   Peugeot Brochure Online posted by Tom M on 3/5/2004 at 4:20:10 PM
Here is a good link for old Peugeot catalogues. From the 20's to the present. http://home.wanadoo.nl/peugeotshow/

   RE:RE:MISC: Peugeot Brochure Online posted by P.C.Kohler on 3/6/2004 at 4:34:50 AM
Most helpful! I recently got a PX-10E which judging from the above sounds like a 1972:

57 cm frame
white with chequerboard seat tube transfers, Champion du Monde etc.
Peugeot headbadge is a sticker
Has Reynolds 531 decal on seat post below "Inoxidable" one and Reynolds 531 decals on forks
Serial no. 2724410 (on alloy plaque on bottom bracket)
Simplex "Criterium" derailleur
Stronglight cranks
Lyotard pedals, Christophe toe clips with Lapize straps
Super Champion tubular rims
Normandie Luxe Competition hubs with Simplex skewers
Mafac Racer centre-pull brakes
Pivo stem, no name alloy bars
plain "Dubois" pattern lugs, painted black on head
Simplex seatpost
Ideale 90 saddle
Pump clips under top tube

P.C. Kohler

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   It's a sad sad day posted by: marc on 3/3/2004 at 2:47:19 AM
Well, while installing a generator light set on my beloved raleigh super course I discovered a crack in the right seat stay. It was hidden behind the brake cable. the crack is right near the top by the seat post. What to do now? I talked to my lbs and they said no shop in the area really does this kind of work. I'm supposed to take it to a welder tomorrow to see if he can fix it. My main concern is the original paint and how much of it will be removed if the crack is fixed. My poor beloved super course with the reynolds fork. I've only had it for a month or so but I'ved ridden it so much, my heart broke when I saw that crack. I guess if it can't be fixed it'll hang up on the wall.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: It's a sad sad day posted by jack on 3/3/2004 at 7:41:55 AM
Sorry to hear that Marc, but don't dispair. I don't claim to be an expert in this area (or any other for that matter) but I have successfully brazed-on a new rear dropout with a benz'o'matic torch!

Any competent frame-builder(best) or welder(next best) should be able to braze the crack if it is accessible. Ask first if the crack ends should be drilled first. This will minimize stress at these points and help keep the crack from getting longer. Unfortunately, to do a proper job the paint must be removed and the adjacent paint on the stay will get burned. However, a homemade spot-paint should be a decent match or just a coat of primer to "customize" your bike. If the repair holds up for a year or two, you can then think about painting yourself or professionally. Please let us know how it goes.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: It's a sad sad day posted by jack on 3/3/2004 at 7:57:06 AM
Just to add more, ask the welder to sheild adjacent area to minimize paint damage. Make sure welder does not overheat area or more problems will be created. Maybe using silver brazing which doesn't need as much heat is a good idea. The welder should lay down a thick bead with increased thinning as you are farther from the crack. I would then file and feather the repair so it looks like a mended broken bone, a slightly thicker tube. I don't know if electric-arc welding can be used, it depends on tubing type, but this may also work if done right, but this requires even more expertise. One advantage of arc/mig/tig is less paint damage.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: It's a sad sad day posted by Stacey on 3/3/2004 at 12:23:35 PM
I don't know where you're located Marc, but Wheelfine Imports in Lambertville NJ can help you with your frame repair... and painting to if you wish. Sorry to hear of the misfortune

   old frame repair posted by John E on 3/3/2004 at 3:25:54 PM
At the risk of getting voted off of oldroads, I have to question whether the frame is worth repairing. If a seat stay has cracked, probably indicating metal fatigue, can the chainstays and/or main tubes be that far behind? However, if this were a Professional or an International, it would probably be worth fixing.

   RE:old frame repair posted by marc on 3/3/2004 at 3:47:09 PM
I've gone over the rest of the frame and it does appear to be very solid. I know this isn't a professional but how many super courses do you know of that have a reynolds fork? This bike seems to me to be a bit of an oddity, a bit of a rare bird. Not to mention the fact that I've ridden the hell out of it in the month since I bought it and cleaned it up and I've fallen in love with the way it handles. It's a superbe ride. It's made me ignore my bianchi a bit. So it is definately worth saving to me. I'm in chicago so if anyone knows a frame builder or a welding shop in the area please let me know.

   RE:RE:old frame repair posted by JONathan on 3/4/2004 at 8:26:12 AM
Steel is definitely worth a shot at fixing if the damage is isolated to that spot on the frame...and hopefully not as John E. aptly pointed out, a sign of overall stress fatigue failure modality.
I gave up on a RRA that was globally stressed...first the dropouts, then a chain-stay...and the fork steerer was gone, too. I gave up. Your particular fix requires a person well skilled in torch work as the seat-stays are small diameter and are critical to frame alignment.
I have been coached by my brother who walks me through the easy stuff, but he would shove me out of the way on something like a seat-stay and work it up righteous. He has special brazing rods for the low temp brazing where heat stress could be a problem. I would give it a try, since you like the ride.
I still think John E.'s post is something to look at real good...take a lupe and scope the frame for any paint crazing and check for any excess flexing at the BB. Speaking of Raleighs, I dusted off my '77 RRA and discovered something with the rear brake. I had fitted a Weinmann sidepull while the front is Vainqueur 999 (650) cp.
I realized the touring rack was mounted too close to the brake-bridge due to the 26 inch frame. Smaller frames permit anchoring the rack further above the bridge it appears. I don't worry so much about the rear brake, so it's OK. The steep angle of the stays might be the reason? As a general thought, maybe the smaller frames have more seat-stay failure due to the sharper angle of the stays relative to the road plane. The more verticality there is, the less stress goes transverse to the tubes...I think. Just a couple c's.
Good luck, and keep in mind you might be able to find another frame if it doesn't seem feasable to fork out the bucks on the one you have now. It's a trade-off game...you gamble that there isn't something else about ready to go out.

   second thoughts posted by JONathan on 3/4/2004 at 8:38:00 AM
Thinking about the seat-stay going out, I realized that is criticality-one! Nothing to keep the rear triangle from collapsing...I wouldn't want a seat-stay ramming into my back and/or taking a header from the the seat-tube clamping the rear wheel to a rapid halt in rotation...just something to consider. I would...after thinking about it...make a museum piece out of the tired warhorse. But, hey, I've got a bunch of bikes to pick out for riding, so it's easy for a guy like me to say chuck the plan.
Other failures might be ignomineous at best, but a seat-stay would be ugly.
Good luck, ride long and prosper,

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   It's a sad sad day posted by Rob on 3/4/2004 at 7:38:45 PM
I think I would lean towards the views expressed by John E. and JONathan. I would consider quite seriously whether the damage is the result of some specific incident invovling the seat stay, or symptomatic of a generally tired-out, high mileage frame.

But I think I know how you feel...I, too, got back into the old road bikes via an early '70s Raleigh Super Course...it's a long story, but, in short, I was amazed at this bike and how it rides...I still have the bike and ride it from time to time during the nice weather...But I think if something serious happened to it, and if I wasn't totally confident in the potential to repair the damage, I would let it go....there are after all plenty of other worthy bikes out there to "love"...and cheap, too ...and not high maintenance...:) My current favorites are my Gitane TdF and my Norco Triathlon (equivalent to a mid-range Nishiki), though the Super Course is not far behind.

At some point,you should make the practical decision, and, if ncecssary, move on...a new "love" will be just around the corner...:)

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Sarronen Bikes posted by: Ian on 3/2/2004 at 7:29:33 AM
Hi, can anybody offer any info on this brand? I have just had a brief look at one which is in good order and appears to be of reasonable quality. It has reasonably plain lugs and appeared to have mostly Shimano Ultegra componentry with Biopace front sprockets. It is a very tall frame, about 59cm centre to top. Do not know if it is for sale or whether I should be interested if it is, what do you all think? Thanks, Ian.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   School Bus posted by: marc on 2/29/2004 at 2:21:54 PM
I picked up what I think is the biggest bike I have ever seen. It's a yellow schwinn conti from 1975. And with its seat tube measuring a whopping 26 inches it looks like a school bus! I got it for 5 bucks and I figured it would make an odd conversation peice.

   26" frame posted by John E on 3/1/2004 at 3:16:29 PM
Yes, I remember when Schwinn and a very small number of other manufacturers introduced 26" frames. In 1960, Schwinn introduced the Varsinental in 21" and 23" sizes only, later converting to even-inch 20"-22"-24" sizing, which left the needs of tall people unmet. With the Europeans and Japanese topping out at 25"/64cm frames, Schwinn grabbed a market niche as people kept growing taller. (I stand 5'8"; my sons, now age 19 and 14, are both 5'11".)

Schwinn experts, please check me on this, but I believe your frame color is "kool lemon."

In the larger sizes, one advantage of a gas-pipe frame such as your Schwinn is reduced whippiness and high-speed oscillation. Nishiki, for example, made a production change from a double-butted to a straight-gauge CrMo seat tube on its Competition, in response to customer complaints about high-speed instability.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   School Bus posted by luke on 3/2/2004 at 11:42:27 PM
Hello marc,
I own a couple 26 inch framed schwinns,one a 1978 conti 2 and the other is a black special.I like to think that there as tall as,and ride like a race horse because once you get on them and peddal to a great speed,you know if anything should occur,you,ll just have to ride that old horse to the ground the best you can and hope you dont get beat up too bad because that bike is sure to win.[HA HA]!!
Enjoy it,

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   School Bus posted by gary m on 3/7/2004 at 5:35:29 AM
that is the most valuable varsinental there is dude. period.
why? ask anyone thats 6'8" or better what bike they have?
NONE. why? they dont make them anywhere. custom frames for this man are tons of money. Now lets add insane durability, parts availability, collectible value. want to sell it? find a 6'8" man and let him ride it. thats all it takes. SOLD. these men are used to spending their whole lives in and out of things that do not fit them, and that bike does. start a clean one at $150 and go up from there depending on the overall condition. list your ad by the frame size and then add the details. its that size that will sell it. Gaurantee it.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   SCHWINN PAINT posted by: MARK on 2/29/2004 at 1:15:02 PM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   SCHWINN PAINT posted by Tom M. on 2/29/2004 at 6:51:45 PM

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   gios aerodynamic posted by: eric on 2/28/2004 at 4:10:04 AM
i'm getting a gios aerodynamic frame and fork off ebay. does anyone know much about this model? how is it different from the super record and professional made during the same period?

it's also made with columbus air tubing. anyone know what that is? where was it in line with SL?

the auctioneer said super record parts were on it. and from the gios site, it might have come with some panto'd parts.

anything you can share about this model would be appreciated.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   gios aerodynamic posted by T-Mar on 2/28/2004 at 9:36:07 PM
Columbus Air was the Italian manufacturer's initial attempt at an aerodynamic tubeset. It dates from the early 1980's. The intial version used a teardrop shaped down tube, seat tube and seat stays in conjunction with an oval top tube and chain stays, and a round head tube. Later versions had teardrop shaped chain stays.

The tubeset was designed primarily for time trials and aerodymanic efficiency and therefore it is not practical to compare it directly to other round, Columbus tubesets. However, based on tube thickness, the seat stays were equivalent to KL and the chainstays, seat tube and top tube were equivalent to SL, while the down tube was equivalent to SP. Due to the teardrop shapes the resulting frames weighed more than SL, but had less strength. The rear triangles in particular had a reputation for being whippy, due to the thin seat stays. However, this was considered acceptable given the intended TT use and aerodynamic advantages.

Of particular note, the seat tube came in two versions. One with a standard round top end, to accept a normal seat post and another which carried the teardrop section right to the top, requiring a teardrop section seatpost. If you have the latter, you may have some difficulty finding a seatpost, unless it is being provided with the frame.

Regarding componentry, most frames built with this tubing were outfitted with Shimano Dura Ace AX, or less likely, 600AX. Campagnolo did not have an aero group at the time and the Italian farme builders did not want to miss out on the aero bandwagon, in the event it turned out to be the latest craze. The AX components come up fairly regularly on Ebay and are not as expensive as buying Campagnolo NR or SR. I had a similar, aerodynamic time trial bicycle in the early eighties, with full Dura Ace AX, though it was not a Gios.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   gios aerodynamic posted by eric on 2/29/2004 at 7:12:03 PM
thanks for the tubing info. i think i'm going to outfit it with campy parts. the frame has original campy stickers on it, so in keeping with continuety...

i'm also still trying to find out how it fit in the gios line-up at the time. the other models being the super record and the professional. when would a particular frameset been used?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   gios aerodynamic posted by T-Mar on 3/1/2004 at 7:56:29 PM
Well, if it has Campagnolo stickers, then by all means, go with Campagnolo.

Given the specialized purpose of this bicycle, I don't know as it is appropriate to try and position it in the line-up. It's sort of like asking where a cyclo-cross bicycle would fit in an ATB line-up. They are both used off-road, but each has it's own purpose, different from the other. However, if you're set on trying to peg it in a hole, I'd consider it equivalent to the Super Record Strada, but more rare.

AGE / VALUE:   motobecane "profil 21" posted by: Ned on 2/27/2004 at 2:21:34 PM
another find here ."1020 hi resilency" tubing .looks like japanese parts.thick "aero"style downtube.nervar crank?any thoughts?
also a peugoet "course" with vitus tubing unknown componets.seen at sellwood bike shop on consignment.very intresting sight by the way .thanks for any info.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   motobecane posted by Shaun on 2/28/2004 at 5:02:26 AM

I know the bikes you are referring to at Sellwood. They look pretty nice. There is a Motobecane Profil frame and fork on Ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3662870305&category=22681

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   motobecane posted by Derek Coghill on 2/28/2004 at 6:48:59 PM
I'm just back from France, where I bought a nice wee Motobécane 10-speed. It's still in the back of the car, if you want to know more I'll look for numbers etc.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   motobecane posted by poguemahone on 3/1/2004 at 3:44:16 AM
The "course" is likely a PFN10E, a nice mid-range Peugeot built with Vitus 181 db tubing. Peugeot also used the "course" name on the UO10, which had carbolite 103 tubing. Probably stuck the name on a couple of other models as well.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Astra - Made in France? posted by: Joe on 2/27/2004 at 9:35:17 AM
I came acossed a frameset today for free, the headbadge says "Astra" and it's made in France. It resembles an older Motobecane, at least in the way the cable braze-ons and seat lug look. It has Nervar cottered cranks, Pivo stem, and a steel seat post. The seat post was installed with a thick shim, so I doubt it belongs. It also appears to have had sidepull brakes, there is no sign of any cable hangers and the rear cable and casing appears too long to have gone above the caliper.
I heard that Rollfast or another brand was importing these? I see no other brand names on the frame, it appears to have had something at one time on the top tube, but it's worn off now. The frame is blue with white trim and some fancy pinstriping down the top tube.
It was given to me today after some said they were going to toss it, along with several others including 2 Sears bikes from the 60's, one made in France (10 spd) and one from Germany (3spd). The Astra is missing the wheels, brakes, saddle, and handlebars. Does anyone know anything about these or who sold them? What type of brakes and rims did they use?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Astra - Made in France? posted by marc on 2/27/2004 at 1:41:59 PM
I've only seen a few of those astra bikes around. They are low end bikes re-badged and made by motobecane. The few I have seen all had huret allvit derailuers. Also, I suppose with the motobecane tradition of nice paint and decals, they look damn cool. The best I've seen was their Tour De France model, great decals and it had great wing nuts on the front wheel. I haven't seen them ever come up on ebay but being low end bikes I can't imagine them having a ton of value. I think it would make a nice rider/conversation peice.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Astra - Made in France? posted by Shaun on 2/28/2004 at 4:54:35 AM
I ran across an Astra Mixte framed bike last summer at a garage sale. The double down tubes were sort of "S" shaped rather than straight like the typical mixte. Kinda cool looking, actually. I passed on it at the time. I later found a reference to them at Sheldonbrown.com that they were a Beacon Cycle house brand, indeed made by Motobecane as Marc states. Wish I would have snagged it, as I haven't run across one since.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Astra - Made in France? posted by jon in seattle on 3/1/2004 at 6:45:40 AM
hey I thought you were describing the same bike I found last week thrift store shopping,till you said you were missing the wheels, mine has a shimmed seat post also.
it is a white tour de france,with a worn out leather seat with a big M on it,some one had just put some nice tires on it recently and a rear pletscher rack,too big for me though.
I'll be selling it at the Seattle old bike swap meet March 28th,cheep,cheep!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by: marc on 2/26/2004 at 1:42:03 AM
I know that ava stems and bars are prone to failure. What about pivo? My gitane has a pivo stem and I just want to make sure its not going to turn into a skewer! What about other brands of stems? Am I getting paranoid or should I consider replacing my GB stems as well?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by Don on 2/26/2004 at 5:44:33 AM
I have a GB stem on my 1971 Raleigh and a Pivo randonneur bar on one of my Motobecane bikes. I never gave it a thought (until now)...I'm a little guy & always assumed I wasn't putting much load on my rides. Somebody help us out.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by JONathan on 2/26/2004 at 6:04:47 AM
Except for the MTB design, I don't trust any stem...especially when I have no clue what it's been through when I get the bike on the rack. The AvA looks like a worst-case, which is where it could break when there are no visible defects, IMHO. If the experts say stay away from them that's all I need. I've used the AvA before I knew anything was up...just lucky, I guess.
Most of the problems for me come are too high a mounting in the steerer. The longer reach to the clamp is another concern. Mostly, it's the design that is inherently weak. The forgrd steel "varsity" stem seems pretty tough, but you trade off weight. Riding is a risky business, but a little common sense helps...gee, where did mine go? Ever notice how the AvA stems look a bit course in the casting...kind of grainy. I wonder if that's a factor.
Pivo's probably aren't much better.
I've been spooked a lot by MV's, lately...that's my biggest worry...especially after reading some posts of horrific crashes. Good luck, JONathan

      Getting Nervous posted by John E on 2/26/2004 at 4:43:22 PM
Since I, at 140lbs=64kg, have broken various components and frames over the years, I am amazed that the big guys don't report alot more problems! I do not trust old aluminum stems, handlebars, or cranks, and replace all of the above periodically as preventive safety maintenance. If you want a daily driver with all-original components, get a Varsinental.

   RE:   Getting Nervous posted by JONathan on 2/26/2004 at 5:39:06 PM
Interesting point re. mass of rider. At 220#, one might assume more breakages. Aside from pedals, chains and brake cables, not much to report...yet, I keep hearing about cranks, chainstays and frame main-tubes separating; along with axles dividing in two that I'm beginning to wonder about mass as the deciding factor. My opinion is that a skilled cyclist is going to be able to impart considerable "impulse" to their forces at work; much like a karate black-belt can break bricks, where I would break my hand!
Then, it's GRAVITY that tells on parts. Since I stay out of the hills as much as possible, the bikes have it kinda easy. To me, the impulse is more a factor than is greater momentum. Now, trying to displace an immovable object is where the mass is likely to generate a large impulse differential skewed toward the bigger mass. This fact makes my interest in potholes and driveway berms much greater. This would effect frames, stems and bars much more, IMHO. And, rims and axles, too are greater effected. Snapping cranks, pedals and chains...tearing out derailers is more likely from propulsion effort. I'm with John E. on the "Varsinentals". My "Sprite" has a forged steel stem which would take some major doing to snap, but my "vars" has the design advantage in the angled-up reach...that's the best, IMHO.
Remember...anything can, and will break, given enough time and circumstance. so the only solution is (as was stated) periodic replacement...that at least resets the parameters.
Good, safe ridin', JONathan
BTW...Brake cables and chain are MY claim to fame.

   RE:RE:   Getting Nervous posted by JONathan on 2/26/2004 at 5:52:11 PM
A note about solid vs. hollow (QR) axles. I go with nutted axles, especially on the rear. Ever notice how the track bikes have the nutted axles? There is a reason. I find the QR's to work loose and the bearing functions can be impacted by getting them too tight...the axle bends due to the compression is the only thing I can think.
The nutted axles zI crank down pretty decent and the bearings are't (seemingly) effected because the clamping pressure is against the cone locknut and axle nut outside the dropout. The "dogbone" isn't a big deal to carry onboard as a keychain. I bend axles, but never have experienced a clean break. Just a couple c's more.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Getting Nervous posted by Warren on 2/26/2004 at 7:12:12 PM
I was (still am, maybe) a strong, heavy rider, like to jump out of the saddle and flex everything. I've had 3 catastrophic wheel failures, two bent forks, one Shimano 600 crank snap (scary), one bottom bracket blow up and one chainstay break. Knock on wood, never had a bar or stem go on me but I've always used fairly good marques....usually Cinelli 64/65/66's or Nitto.

Last week, I felt my rear wheel getting wobbly...when I got home, I put the bike on the stand to true up the wheel and found that a whole section of the high flange Normandy track hub had ripped away. The wheel had been rebuilt last year by a good wheel guy...lot's of tension. I guess it was too much for the old hub. In retrospect, that vintage hub would have made money for me on ebay and I could ride a modern replacement that won't fail but it isn't as much fun, is it?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Getting Nervous posted by Warren on 2/26/2004 at 7:20:04 PM
I forgot...2 axles, one pedal and one very expensive American Classic seatpost. Which goes to prove even new stuff can be dangerous...the seatpost had a design flaw which was recalled and corrected. It takes time for some problems to show up.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by JB on 2/26/2004 at 9:40:20 PM
Marc....Recently replaced a Guid stem...equivalent to AVA with a higher quality ATAX on my 70's St. Etienne. While so doing, I noticed the alloy bars were bent and stressed, so replaced those with randy steel bars. The Guid and AVA stems, as mentioned by earlier posts do have a grainy quality to the casting..the ATAX is smooth and appears more stout. It may well be in the casting that the poorer quality stems suffer. ATAX and Philippe offer good alternatives, and are the specific 22mm French fit..Good luck

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by Don on 2/27/2004 at 7:34:14 AM
My only incidents were a 3t stem that broke across the bottom side of the clamp when I hit a big pothole but was still rideable enuf to limp home. Also had a front sidepull brake flyoff on a new road bike's maiden ride. The holddown nut wasn't tightened down properly & it vibrated off. I was on a descent at about 30 MPH & the whole caliper & cable came whipping right past my nose on the way to wrapping around the bar. Could have been seriously hurt if I had been stretched out & lower to the bar. Don

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by marc on 2/27/2004 at 1:48:38 PM
Well luckily I haven't had anything snap on me but I did have an accident because of my own carelessness. I was climbing up a hill, I stood up and the rear wheel came loose. It wasn't fun, and it wasn't pretty.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by marc on 2/27/2004 at 1:49:16 PM
Well luckily I haven't had anything snap on me but I did have an accident because of my own carelessness. I was climbing up a hill, I stood up and the rear wheel came loose. It wasn't fun, and it wasn't pretty.

   broken components posted by John E on 2/27/2004 at 3:34:53 PM
I think I have broken more than my share of components in 150k KM of cycling because my pedaling style is not as smooth as it should be, because I have historically done LOTS of out-of-saddle hill climbs, because I have bought lots of used bikes and parts, and because my Scottish DNA compels me to get maximum life and use out of everything I own. Here is my record, from which perhaps others can learn something:

1) left steel 1960 Agrati crank at the cotter eye, whilst accelerating across Wilshire Bl. on Westwood Bl., a bit south of UCLA; "Limped" home with the cranks at a 155-degree angle.
2) left aluminum 1970 Sugino Mighty Compe crank at the pedal eye on an out-of-saddle 7 percent climb (Torrey Pines, La Jolla); strained Achilles' tendon, sprained wrist;
3) hollow (QR) rear axle at right bearing cone;
4) solid rear axle at right bearing cone;
5) Shimano high-flage front hub: cracked flange;
6) 1971 American Eagle Semi-Pro (Nishiki Competition) frame, seat tube lug broke away from BB shell;
7) 1973 Peugeot UO-8 frame, right chainstay cracked between dimples for chainring and tyre clearance;
8) 1976 SunTour Cyclone front derailleur clamp;
9) ca. 1980 SunTour platform pedal -- platform cracked;
10) lots of spokes and cables, although very few in recent years;

Fortunately, no steerer tubes, stems, handlebars, forks, front rims, chains, or front QR systems.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by steve on 2/27/2004 at 4:20:19 PM
I'm in the heavyweight class, at a short 220 pounds. My breakage list over the past 30 years is comparatively short, though. A cheap, department-store rear hub broke an axle on smooth pavement. One the other hand, a Campy Record rear only suffered a bent one after hitting a manhole coaming (fortunately bewelled) on a fast mountain descent with a full touring load. A Sturmey hub driver recently broke for no apparent reason. No stems; no cranks, not even cheap ones. I have recently had some undue wear on a chainring, probably caused by a half-block very steep climb to get into the office building. The teeth got tore up about 90 degrees behind the crank arms - right at the point of maximum leverage. The favorite commuter bike has just been re-equipped with a steel chainring to avoid a repeat

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/27/2004 at 4:59:32 PM
Gosh.. scary reading here!

Not a "lightweight" by any means, but I had a 1979 Raleigh DL-1 roadster frame crack at the bottom bracket lug. Didn't notice it at first and continued to ride only until I noticed the machine was falling out of gear!

By the way, true to their lifetime guarantee, Raleigh flew a replacement frame from Nottingham, paid for all labour and flew the defective frame back for analysis. That was in 1983.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by Rob on 2/27/2004 at 6:22:56 PM
Gee, this is an interesting thread...and scary too...:)
I feel compelled to throw my 2 c's in...the worse thing I've had happen was an incident when a car fail to yield at a stop sign...the result wasn't, of course, equipment failure, but was interesting nevertheless. Besides the bent forks (laterally displaced) from the impact..I was surprised at the dramatically bent handlebars and the twisted stem...all from my grip, not the impact..sort of a 'karate effect', I guess, from the sudden force input...I couldn't have done that to the bars and stem if it had been a conscious effort. The stem twisted around the axis of the horizontal portion...I wonder how much twisting force would be necessary to actually snap it off? Anyway, when I check stems, I now look for that kind of damage, besides cracks.

As to actual spontaneous component failures, I've only had a few relatively minor events. A Cinelli stem that cracked along the underside of the handlebar mounting bolt housing...a seat tube/bottom bracket separation on a lower-end NIshiki...I don't think I actually caused this..I discovered this problem during a low speed test ride on the newly acquired bike...I had a broken flange on an old Azzurro rear hub...only two spoke holes broke and the wobble was relative minor and immediately detectable..this was probably the result of a 'weakest link' scenario...a relatively new Campagnolo rim, stainless steel spokes and a tired old hub...no wonder most bike shops don't like lacing up wheels with old components... The last equipment failure was in December on my commuter...a broken rear nutted axle...when the problem showed itself with a severe wobble, I was going up a steep hill at low speed...after figuring it all out...I put it back together and slowly limped home, avoiding bumps and curbs...

I haven't had any brake problesm, but I have concerns about breaking a brake lever mounting strap (I did break one once while mounting the brake lever) and snapping brake cables...one of the reasons there are two brakes I guess, but in a tight spot..the thought becomes scary...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by JONathan on 2/28/2004 at 9:14:23 AM
Interesting comment about brakes. There is, at some point, reached a momentum for which the brakes will fail to counteract the acceleration. I have reached that limit on one occasion and nearly so on one other. I'll leave it to the imagination as to the result of the former condition. I would like to set up a labratory test to determine the momentum limits for varying setups...without risk, of course; I need not be on the bike to take friction values. The problem is how. Maybe some kind of variable speed, gear driven motor...a precision motor tp simulate gravity; we all know what that is!
Just a couple c's, trying to learn how to avoid history repeating itself at my expense, without having to retro-clamp all the way down hills like a chicken that I am.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by T-Mar on 2/29/2004 at 12:39:38 AM
Offhand, I can only recall having four major component failures during my 30 plus years of serious cycling.

1) Snapped left Campagnolo NR crank arm.
2) Snapped Campagnolo NR pedal spindle (can't remember which side).
3) Broken seat tube, Scapin SL frameset (after approx. 150,000 km)
4) Collapsed front wheel & fork on Gitane Tandem.

Of course, there have been numerous minor failures such as flats, broken spokes and the odd broken chain.

Fortunately, several potential failures have been detected during routine maintenance and pre-race inspections. There is a lot to be said for a semi-annual overhaul and the pre-ride once over. This is another good reason to justify a complete cleaning and overhaul of new acquisitions. You never know what kind of wear and damage is hiding under the dirt and grime.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by Derek Coghill on 2/29/2004 at 11:12:22 PM
Trading off weight........unless you're hyper-fit and going for serious times and so on, I'd suggest compromising on the weight. As an example, I'm light enough but not fit enough to test the components to their limits so I tend to leave things be. If you're heavy, what's the difference between a steel and an alloy stem? A good breakfast, at a guess (true in my case). If you're not happy, change it.

   RE:RE:RE:   Getting Nervous posted by Randy on 3/1/2004 at 5:56:46 AM
checking for loose hubs now and again will sometimes surprize you. not knowing what i hit ect. surprize loose hub, also if bike has been sitting the bearing gease dries up and other parts loosen up with time back on the road. but after that axle bend have the dropouts straightened because you will likely do again and lot sooner. but the brakes i change yearly because the rubber gets hard and grips like balsa wood.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Getting Nervous posted by T-Mar on 3/3/2004 at 12:07:06 AM
Randy, there's no need to change the pads yearly, unless there are worn past the indicators, or very old. A simple sanding will remove the glaze and restore the performance to near new.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Columbia lightweight, wartime? posted by: Joe on 2/25/2004 at 9:16:57 AM

In my search for parts this afternoon, I came acrossed another odd bike. It's a Columbia 'lightweight' (by style only). It has 26 x 1.375 tires, early Bendix rear hub, narrow tubular forks, integral kickstand (which mounts to a tube and plate which is welded through the tube behind the bottom bracket), and an a narrow Troxel type seat with a hairpin springer base. Fenders if it ever had them, are missing, the handle bars and stem are non plated, and look to be just painted black, as is the hubs and all else which is normally chrome. It does have it's share of surface rust, and will need a full restoration, but nothing major. The worst part is the fact that the kickstand is broke off near the top. The frame and fork paint may even be salvagable. It uses an early style Columbia headbadge which I haven't seen before, and is quite heavy, about on par with a Schwinn of that same era.
Has anyone here ever run acrossed one of these with the integral kickstand?
(I also posted this in the Balloon tire & Middleweight forum)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Columbia lightweight, wartime? posted by paul on 2/26/2004 at 11:00:07 PM
The bicycle you describe is a "Victory" style. Under the bottom bracket will be a number, if Axxxxx=1936, Gxxxxx=1942, these are Elgin, Columbia, Westfield, Sterling all built in Westfield, MA...it probably has inch pitch drive and the fenders are skinny, the front fender has a pinched peak at the very front. The rear fender stays were like heavy wire-like and the bike would be devoid of chrome because of wartime shortage. The rims would be cream colored painted with stripes, hubs would be black enamel. Paul

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Columbia lightweight, wartime? posted by Joe on 2/28/2004 at 7:34:44 AM
The headbadge does say Stirling Made in Westfield, Mass.
I checked the serial number against the list here on oldroads and it comes up as a 1948, (M5XXXXX). After cleaning it I see the model is "Sports Tourist". It was covered in heavy grease, I assume thats what preserved it. Could they have still been using up black wartime components?
The paint is in pretty good condition as far as chips or scratches, but has little shine, it's a dull brown/burgundy color with white decals. The rims are rough, they're pretty rusted inside, but the Uniroyal tires are near mint. The chainring is a star pattern and is 1" pitch. The front hub is a narrow very small flange Bendix, and the rear is a standard prewar Bendix coaster brake. The rims resemble a slightly wider Schwinn S-6 (tall sides, but fairly narrow). They look are painted to match the frame with a pinstripe. The handle bars are flat black, and look to be Torrington made, the stem is forged steel and has about a three inch forward reach with the clamp bolt out front.There is no sign of a chainguard, or are there any brackets or marks on the paint from a previous install of one. What you describe sound like early Wald lightweight fenders? There is a front brace still attached with a piece of torn fender still on it, the brace is flat steel with two rivets attaching the end loop, and a single bolt throught the fender, the bolt hole at the fender is reinforced with a stamped piece of sheet metal around the brace itself. The piece of fender is white. The seat resembles the hairpin seats that are for sale here at oldroads, only with black springs.

AGE / VALUE:1960's ladies schwinn hollywood, excellent condition- help! posted by: jessica on 2/25/2004 at 3:45:21 AM
hey!! i was wondering if anyone could help me out with a price for a 1960's (i think) ladies schwinn hollywood (# KD60100), it's in excellent condition too, it's just collecting dust in my dad's garage... any ideas on how much it might be worth? thanks :)

AGE / VALUE:   Another Oaxaca Bike Thing posted by: TimW on 2/24/2004 at 7:45:20 AM
In the message below, I forgot to mention in Oaxaca Mexico the high number of Cinelli's and Colnago's plying the bumpy streets. I understand the many Bennotto's, the production of that make having shifted to Mexico. The funny thing about the 'higher end' bikes is that, aside from the hand-crafted Italian markings, they seemed to be the same basic, bolted together at the rear drop-out and double top tubed, heavy steel bikes as the Bennottos.

I don't think that Colnago and Cinnelli ever opened bottom-end plants in Mexico ... but I have photo proof!

AGE / VALUE:   DiaCompes or Mafac Racers? posted by: TimW on 2/24/2004 at 7:22:43 AM
I want advice ... the question is way below.

I am having mucho fun planning to build up a Falcon 531 PG frame that belonged to the father of a friend (I posted a while back - maybe quite a while?). The bike was not what I hoped, but I am now more motivated to do something with this frame than many better ones. Go figure.

The project idea started during my recent trip to Oaxaca, Mexico. I noticed most old bikes (Bennottos mostly), and there are many, have 'mustache' handle bars. Those are hard to come by around here, so I scouted numerous bike shops with my cave-man Spanish until I managed to pick up two different styles in chromed steel, for 25 pesos each (Cdn $2.50). I even got them in my backpack home.

Back in the shop, I wanted to find the right bike to build around the bars (silly the reasons whole bikes get built). I pulled out my one pair of old SunTour friction bar-end shifters for a completed cockpit concept.

The Falcon was the one classy old frame around that I don't mind parting with its original components. I am suprised how light it is, and wonder if it could be 531PG with 531 stays and fork?? The construction and paint finish is horrible.

I will clean and touch-up the many scratches and scrapes before a gloss coat. The bike is a dark gold colour, and I have an aged leather saddle to go with it. I have a Campy front wheel, and Ofmega rear wheel, found a while ago and great for this ride. The derailleurs are a pristine set of SunTour Cyclones.

I have a set of chrome fenders, a la 57 Chevy, to make it a daily rider. The cranks I've chosen are gold accented, on which will go 50-39 rings. After seeing how good the gold accents look on the bike, I am going to play with adding gold paint to the lower sections of the fenders.

So, finally my brake question. This bike is being a show place for some funky parts. The bike has its original DiaCompe centre pulls, but I have a set of Mafac Racers that would look much better. Would I regret that choice for any reason?

   RE:AGE / VALUE: DiaCompes or Mafac Racers? posted by Warren on 2/24/2004 at 1:10:53 PM
I find the Mafac's are more prone to squealing although they have equal, if not greater stopping power. Just a little fussier to setup

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DiaCompes or Mafac Racers? posted by Rob on 2/24/2004 at 8:39:19 PM
From my experience I have had some minor squealing issues with MAFAC Racers, however I have a set of MAFAC Competitions (very similar to the Racer)on my Gitane TdF which are terrific brakes and never any squealing (maybe I'm lucky with this set...) I find the Competitions so good that I have to remind myself if I haven't ridden the bike for a while, not to pull too hard...they lock up instantly...pretty much like MTB brakes...some say it's because of the large pad 'footprint', but I kind of think it may be more than that...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DiaCompes or Mafac Racers? posted by T-Mar on 2/25/2004 at 2:45:25 PM
I concur with Warren. The MAFAC Racer brakeset was a powerful stopper, due to the combination of large pads and the abilty to adjust the yoke cable length and vertical angle of the pads, which allowed a mechanic to better dial-in the brakeset. However, the general consensus is that they do tend to suffer from squealing, for whatever reason.

THe MAFAC Competition are a step up and I understand way Rob is so enamoured with them. Aesthetically, they are more appealing with a nice, anodized finish. From a user standpoint, they have handy wheel guides and drilled brake levers with full hoods, which provide better hand grip in wet weather and are more comfortable, besides being slightly lighter. On the downside, you cannnot custom tailor the length of the yoke cable, as it uses lead anchors at both ends. I haven't done a comparison in the braking power between the Competition and Racer, so I won't comment.

Personally, if this was my bicycle, and I wasn't concerned about orginality, I would use Weinmann centre-pulls. The Swiss Weinmann brakes were probably the most common brakeset seen on British entry and mid level bicycles during the 60's and 70's. They just seem more proper than their Japanese clones or the French MAFACs.