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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thomann? posted by: Zach on 4/16/2004 at 4:23:51 AM
Hi Everybody,
I own a Thomann Racing bike I think it was built in 1974 from the serial number (2774). It came with full Shimano 600 except for a Cinelli Stem and Handle Bars. I work in the Bike Business and have yet to find someone who has heard of Thomann. Also I recently bought a '78 Moser does anyone know anything about this bike or who built it.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thomann? posted by T-Mar on 4/17/2004 at 1:48:25 AM
I don't have any knowledge of Thomann bicycles, but if the Shimano 600 equipment is original, it is newer than 1974. The March 1976 issue of Bicycling magazine has a test report on the "recently introduced Shimano 600 group", though I believe the derailleur was available seaparately in 1975.

Similarly, the Moser would appear to be newer than 1978, as their website states a 1979 establishment. The Moser factory is located in Trento, Italy and is named after Francesco Moser, a prominent pro cyclist from the late '70s and '80s. He won two World Championships (Pursuit and Road)and won Paris-Roubaix in 3 successive years (1978-1980), but is most famous for breaking Eddy Merckx's "unbreakable" hour record in 1984 when he introduced disc wheels. That same year he also won the prestigious Milan-San Remo classic and the Giro d'Italia, so 1984 was a very good year for Moser. My understanding is that the shop is actually run my some of Francesco's brothers who were also pro cyclists. They are a realtively small production shop, producing primarily mid to high end road bikes.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Thomann? posted by Derek Coghill on 4/18/2004 at 11:14:19 PM
Thomann was a French manufacturer; I know of them by way of some rather lovely 1930s motorcycles and assume (but am not positive) that this bike was made by the same company.

FOR SALE:   Raleigh Carlton posted by: Dan on 4/15/2004 at 7:09:52 PM
Picked up this bike the other day and thought there might be some interest is it. It's Raleigh I assume the model is a Carlton as that's the name on the seat tube. It is made of Reynolds 531 and looks to be in the 55cm range. It is burnt orange color with chrome drop outs (not campy). The cranks are Raleigh as is the front deraileur. The rear deraileur is a Suntour Cyclone. The wheels have Atom hubs laced to rims that have a scooped out look to them(sorry I don't know the brand I think the were made in Belgium). It does not have pedals or a saddle. I would like $75 plus shipping for it. Please email with any questions. I'm an old school BMX guy so I'm open to trades of that nature. I'm also looking for a complete 80's vintage cyclocross wheel set/tires in good usable condition. Thanks for looking.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh Carlton posted by Ken on 4/19/2004 at 4:50:07 PM
Carlton is the shop where the frame was made. You may have a Super Course mkII- check retroraleighs 'periodic table' to compare component spec. Very possibly the 'Raleigh' front der is a Suntour V (if memory serves) which is a reverse-shift, pull-to-downshift type. The Weinmann rims if good are getting hard to find. 27 inch?

   RE:FOR SALE: Raleigh Carlton posted by Warren on 4/20/2004 at 3:26:27 AM
It's a good bike for the price...if no one wants it you could strip the parts and sell the frame and fork on ebay. Yes this is sacrilege but one went for $140 last year. You would be hard pressed to get that for the whole bike...weird but true.

MISC:    Conti tires posted by: David on 4/15/2004 at 10:47:04 AM
I'm a bit confused by this page from Conti website:

There's a column marked "ETRTO" with numbers mostly corresponding to the nominal sizes; e.g. 28-622 and 700 x 28C. However, another is 37-622 and 28 x 1 3/8 x 1 5/8. What gives? Is it just that this tire, that would go on a "700C" rim, is so fat that the Germans call it 28"?

   RE:MISC:    Conti tires posted by T-Mar on 4/15/2004 at 12:08:03 PM
Prior to the development of the 700C rim/tire in the late '70s, the 28 x 1-3/8 x 1-5/8 was the only available clincher substitute for tubulars. It used the same rim circumference as tubulars and therefore wheelsets could be easily swappped for training. However, they were wider and on some of the mid '70s frames there was a problem with clearance. Previously, most European lighweights had clearance for fenders as they trained and raced in foul weather, so and there was no problem.

However, there was a demand for a clincher that more closely approximated the performance of tubulars due to the new frames and better road surfaces and this led to the development of the modern, narrow, high pressure, 700c rim/tire.

The old 37-622 rims would be too wide to safely accomodate most modern 700C tires. It's nice to know that Continental is still marketing these tires. While these wheels are fairly rare in North America, I imagine that there are sufficient '60s & '70s wheelsets still rolling in Europe to justify this tire being included in the catalogue.

   RE:RE:MISC:    Conti tires posted by JONathan on 4/16/2004 at 5:27:53 AM
Thanks, Tom. That pretty well explains it. I have Araya 700c alloy rims with 28x 1 5/8x 1 1/2 knobbies. The brand is "Super East" (Taiwan) with a secondary designation stamped on the sidewall which is 38c-700 and 40-622. Are these equivalents, or just close enough to work on the 700C rims? I bought the wheel set a year ago. The hubs are "MICHE--competition", which is a brand that I have not seen before. The spokes are pretty large gauge and the rims are hooked-bead alloy. The rim wall is box-shaped. The rear FW is a 5-sp. tight ratio. No QR's on either axle.
I'm thinking about using them on a '68/69 Raleigh "record". It would be a cool x-bike with those rims and tires, I think. Thanks,

   622 vs 700C posted by John E on 4/16/2004 at 2:13:32 PM
700mm, which is just under 28", would be the outer diameter of a 28x1-5/8" tyre. The bead seat diameter of the corresponding rim would be 622mm. As you can read on Sheldon's website, all 700C tyres require ETRTO 622mm rims of various widths, and 27" tyres use width-matched ETRTO 630mm rims, hence my observation about a 4mm brake reach difference between 27" and 700C rims.

   RE:MISC:    Conti tires posted by T-Mar on 4/16/2004 at 7:52:18 PM
JONathan, as John E. states, the bead seat diameter for 700C is 622mm, so there should be no problem with the tires, providing the rims are wide enough. For a 40-622 tire, Sheldon recommends a 19-622 to 23-622 rim, but I've seen other reputable sources state you can use as narrow as 17-622 provided it is a hook bead rim. Any narrower, and you may have problems keeping it on the rim. Sounds like an interesting project, if the Record has sufficient clearance for the tires.

One thing I didn't think of in my previous post, is that those Continentals would make excellent tires for a lot of the current hybrids. That's probably the most viable reason for them being in the line-up.

Aren't transition periods between standards so much fun? David found a tire with three sizing designations and was justifiably confused. I don't know how long it's been since ETRTO introduced their system but I know it's been at least 20 years since ISO adopted it. It's about time the tire and rim manufacturers bit the bullet and dropped the English and French markings!

Miche is an old Italian component manufacturer that gained prominence in the '80s providing low and mid range components to Italian bicycle manufacturers. While they are still in business, the road product isn't as common as it used to be. However, their current track group seems to be popular for entry level track bicycles.

I don't know as I could give a fair assessment of the Miche product. Most of what I have seen was on abused bicycles that came to me for repairs. Given the type of treatment these bicycles saw, I wouldn't expect any component to survive for a lengthy period. However, they appeared to be on par with the Ofmega and Gipiemme product that it competed against.

   RE:RE:MISC:    Conti tires posted by JONathan on 4/19/2004 at 1:41:54 AM
Thanks, Tom and John E.. I measured the rims at 19mm, which places them at the lower limit recommended by experts. I pumped the tires, no problem staying on. I decided to use them on a Peugeot UO-8 that's a tad small (23") frame for me. The Mafac racers have enough throw to handle the rims. Thanks for the 4mm figure to determine brake caliper fitness. I measured that and fitted the wheel, too. The Miche hubs are very stout, one-piece, forged alloy. (15-17-19-21-24) Shimano FW combined with a 52/44 chainring will provide a tight range: 51-96. AvA stem goes into the "no ride" box, with a MTB stem and flat bars going on. The racers are staying with MC style levers. Down-tube shifters stay. The Simplex front and rear derailers will stay....no use using up my SunTour stock when the Simplex can handle the range and I don't worry if it gets knocked around by rocks and brush. A basic hybrid with vintage LW frame. I'm imagining a real nice little beast for on/off-road rides.
I like the 12% ratio at the ends with small increments from 2nd to 9th gear (3-7% ave.).
I believe these particularly robust Araya rims and the Miche hubs with their heavy gauge spokes will handle the pounding...at least for a while. The bearings and solid axles are in excellent condition. A lot of these wheels that I run across were used very little. There is hardly any brake scar on the edges of the rims.
Thanks, again, JONathan
note: I used (700/25.4 = 27.56) for the gear calculation. I did not use the chart that is in one of my books. It uses (27)x (CR#teeth/FW#teeth)= Gear. The difference is nominal, and the rate of change is equivalent.

AGE / VALUE:   HURET REAR DERAILLEUR HANGER posted by: Kevin K on 4/14/2004 at 7:22:14 PM
Hi. I recall seeing an adapter for using Suntour / Shimano rear derailleurs on bike frames equipted with forged rear Huret derailleur hangers. The Huret hanger is odd and not too many derailleurs fit it. Does anyone know a source where I can purchase one or more of these? Thanks, Kevin

     HURET REAR DERAILLEUR HANGER posted by John E on 4/15/2004 at 8:09:14 PM
Hi Kevin,
If you need only a basic SunTour claw, which you would mount in front of your integral hanger/dropout, I probably have a spare I can give you.

   RE:  HURET REAR DERAILLEUR HANGER posted by Kevin K on 4/15/2004 at 9:04:58 PM
Hi John. How are you? I too have several claws. I would really like to locate the adapter I need. We have a couple swap meets here next week. I hope to locate one there. Thank you for your offer though. Kevin

   RE:RE:  HURET REAR DERAILLEUR HANGER posted by JONathan on 4/16/2004 at 5:37:19 AM
Have you tried a SunTour derailer on the Huret hanger? I bolted a SunTour rear derailer onto a Peugeot AO-8 that had a Huret derailer...well, it was Sachs-Huret to be precise. Maybe they are different, but I would give it a try. It may work for you as it did for me.
Good luck. JONathan
BTW, the SunTour is an excellent chopice. I use "cyclones" and the venerable "V"'s and "V-gt" as standard refits for Simplex and Huret OEM bikes that I have fixed up.

   RE:RE:RE:  HURET REAR DERAILLEUR HANGER posted by Kevin K on 4/16/2004 at 8:10:43 AM
Hi. Yes I did. This forged hanger is the 60's and early 70's style. Kevin

   REAR DERAILLEUR HANGER posted by John E on 4/16/2004 at 2:40:56 PM
I have had good luck replacing just the Simplex, Campag., or Huret derailleur itself with a SunTour, retaining the bike's original attachment bolt for thread compatibility. I happily used an early 1970s SunTour V for several years on the Capo, although I am now replacing it with a 1980s Campag., for brand correctness. (Since this is a pre-plantograph Campag., the SunTour shifts the 7-speed 13-26 freewheel a bit more crisply.) Both of my Peugeots have had SunTour Cyclone rear derailleurs for some time; I put a SunTour bolt-on claw on the UO-8, and I did a small amount of judicious filing on the PKN-10's integral Simplex dropout.

AGE / VALUE:   1982 Shogun 12 speed posted by: Jerry on 4/14/2004 at 6:26:00 PM
I have a Shogun that has hung in the garage for 16 years. It has Shimano RD-6200 Chainwheel and Derailleur. It is in good shape since my son only road it for several years. Any Idea what it's worth?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I need help identifying a frame posted by: marc on 4/14/2004 at 3:24:43 PM
I picked up this bike http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/samadamsfavbrew98/album?.dir=/84a7&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/samadamsfavbrew98/my_photos

I paid 15.00 for it and I really only bought for the wheels. Maillard 700 professional team issue front hub, helicomatic hub in the back, both laced to Matrix Titan T rims. I'm assuming someone took these wheels off an old Trek and put them on this frame which is obviously not a trek. I've never ridden these stock trek wheels before, any care to comment on their quality?

There are no decals left on the frame except for those on the fork. I'm hoping someone will recognize these decals. The cranks are sugino Idol, worth keeping? Some nice lyotard pedals with christophe special toe clips. The brakes are weinmann 999's but the levers are universal with universal hoods. The levers look original to the bars which has tattered untouched cloth tape. I wonder which is orginal? I'm guessing the weinmanns are and someone just switched out the bars and stem.

the frame doesn't look like its of high quality but I just want to make sure its nothing of interest before I decide what to do with it.

thanks for the help.

      I need help identifying a frame posted by John E on 4/14/2004 at 7:35:20 PM
You can rule out some countries of origin by measuring the BB and headset diameter and threading. Also, the lack of an integral derailleur hanger implies a low- or mid-level frame. If you can measure and post the geometry (C-C lengths of major tubes, plus head and seat tube angles), this may help, as well. Can you easily get a few more photos, including a full sideview?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I need help identifying a frame posted by T-Mar on 4/14/2004 at 8:16:59 PM
That is a Gitane symbol on the fork. I concur with John E regarding the model level.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I need help identifying a frame posted by marc on 4/14/2004 at 8:26:16 PM
I'll get some photos later this evening. I'm going to go for a ride and take advantage of the 60 degree weather here in chicago. Do you guys have any experience with the maillard 700 pro hub or these trek wheels? are they of decent quality? Also, does anyone have any instructions on how to remove the helicomatic freewheel?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I need help identifying a frame posted by T-Mar on 4/14/2004 at 11:03:57 PM
The Helicomatic hubs have a poor reputation for spoke breakage and bearing failure. These are accredited to increased dish and use of small diameter bearings. Regardless, once they fail you are up the proverbial creek as the cones were also non-standard and are extremely hard to find. The exception is the Sport hub which used standard cones and bearings.

Offsetting this is cogset that is very easy to remove. Maillard provided the tool with each bicycle and it doubled as a spoke wrench and bottle opener. The tool has a internally toothed, 30mm hole that is used to unscrew the lockring. The tools are relatively easy to find.

I suppose if you're desperate you could remove the lockring with needle-nose locking pliers, but you'll probaly the mar the lockring to the point where you can't use the proper tool.

For an excellent write-up on Helicomatic and pictures of the tool please see http://www.yellowjersey.org/helico.html

By the way, Gitane started using the symbol on your fork in 1975 and I've seen on models as late as 1978. It consists of two interlocked circles (representing wheels?) with a lower case "g" superimposed in the middle.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I need help identifying a frame posted by JONathan on 4/15/2004 at 12:42:20 AM
The Helicomatic cog-cassette slides off (and on) at a slight angle over the hub splines. Once you get the lock ring off (counter-clockwise) the whole cassette pulls off. I have not snapped spokes on mine...but I can definitely see where there could be a problem with the dishing, but it's not much different than my Raleigh "technium" 14-sp. rear cassette hub. Careful attention to truing is probably a good idea. As for the bearings. That is where the hub really has potential for wearing out. I'm not sure that all are like this, but they have different sized bearings on each side! Sheldon Brown has an article, I believe that discusses the bearing issue, as well as other points on the helicomatics.
I think it depends a lot on how hard the wheels are run and how meticulous one is about keeping the spokes adjusted. One set is with steel 27x1 1/4 rinms, while the other set is spoked to heavy duty Rigida alloy rims. Vise-grips take the lock ring off, but make sure there is no slipping, or you will definitely end up with a pot-metal scrap for a lock ring. Also, avoid squeezing too hard as this will make the ring elliptical, which is hard to thread back. The ring has very poor ductility (breaks easy). My intial curiosity led to my removing a cassette on a spare wheel, but unless a spoke is broken...I'd leave it be. The bearing can be greased up without taking the cassette off. They are a curiosity and may be collectible just because of their uniqueness and because they were an early attempt at cassette hubs. Good luck,

   French vs Swiss BB posted by John E on 4/15/2004 at 8:15:00 PM
If your Gitane is from the late 1970s, you will have to figure out whether the fixed BB cup is clockwise/French or anticlockwise/Swiss threaded. By 1980, even stodgy Peugeot had seen the light and converted to (self-tightening) Swiss threading, but I believe Motobecane and Gitane converted somewhat earlier.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   English Rotrax posted by: Gary Cruickshank on 4/13/2004 at 10:00:33 PM
I wonder if any cycling enthusiasts can give me some advice.I am currently clearing out my late fathers shed and have come across the remnants of my old bike.It is a 1958 Rotrax.My dad bought it off a workmate in 1983 (he was the original owner) and it was a wreck.The frame and forks are a custom built 20.5" 531 frame with very nice handcut lugwork.The rear wheel has a Le Tour large-flanged hub and the front wheel a large-flanged Milremo hub.I do not know what the rims are other than they are alloy and have no makers marks on them.I also still possess the original saddle,a Brooks Swallow racing saddle and also the rear deraillleur a Campagnolo Gran Sport.The brakes (callipers and levers) are Mafac Dural Forge.This is all thats left of the original bike.The other components of the bike when we got it were steel (crank,saddle stem,handlebars and stem) and they had rusted to the point of no return.The frame was stove enamelled and we restored it with new replacement parts that we could afford at the time (shimano chainset and front derailleur) and I rode the bike daily until 1987 when I outgrew it.The bike was then dis-assembled and frame hung up where it has remained ever since. I am trying to establish the value of it all but there isn't much on the net about Rotrax (even though the frame was made 20miles from where I live...I'm in England by the way).Firstly, how can I value the frame and also how can I establish the value of the derailleur.I've seen some ridiculous prices for early Campag on eBay and mine looks exactly the same but is there somewhere I can get diagrams so as I can accurately establish the type/mark of the derailleur. Incidentally, I also have an original local Police registration card from 1958/59 where they registered the frame number...in case it got nicked!! Hope someone can help.

      English Rotrax posted by John E on 4/14/2004 at 3:53:48 PM
Thanks for posting, Gary. You have a very interesting bicycle. Check the Gran Sport derailleur carefully for a date code stamp.

(I appreciate Reynolds 531 frames of this vintage, and have a late 1958 / 1959 Capo, which also came with Campag. Gran Sport derailleurs, to prove it.)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   English Rotrax posted by Gary Cruickshank on 4/16/2004 at 9:04:26 PM
Thanks to all the people who have emailed me with info about my bike.I've just seen one up for sale on eBay,looks a bit battered and no bids yet, but have to keep an eye on it.Check out http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3671999149&category=420

AGE / VALUE:   What Raleigh is this? posted by: Martin Kauper on 4/13/2004 at 9:42:38 PM
Hello There! I’ve been trying to identify my wife’s old Raleigh. Maybe some of you out there can help. It’s a green lady’s bike. The decals say it’s a Record. It is a ten speed. The rear wheel is a Sturmy Archer with a Raleigh logo on the axle shaft. What confuses me is that the only thing that resembles a serial number is on the bottom of the casting that the cranks mount in. The number is: 4462285. There are no other letters or marks. I read somewhere that the Gran Sport models of (I think ) the late 60’s or early 70’s had serial numbers that were just numbers and no letters. Anybody ever run into something like this? I’m new to all of this, so any help would be most, er, helpful. Thanks! -Martin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What Raleigh is this? posted by Joe on 4/14/2004 at 1:05:27 AM
Does the headbadge say "Nottingham"? I have had a few Raleighs with the number only serial numbers that were built in Holland, and on the later models, in Japan.
The Holland built bikes usually have the area that normally reads "Nottingham" left blank with some lines in place of it. These bikes usually also had a Built in decal on the seat post, the one's I had had from Holland had the decal very low on the seattube, and those from Japan usually have it near the top.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What Raleigh is this? posted by JONathan on 4/15/2004 at 1:11:51 AM
Some of the early (60's to early '70's) had Huret and/or Simplex derailers. I have an earlier rendition of the "record" with Simplex. The same serial number perplexity you have with yours. I'm guessing the late '60's. The Retro-Raleigh site has some marvelous catalogs in "pdf" download files that are invaluable for comparative study. Try looking at a few of those. I have a "sprite" (which is a "record" to me) from '70's with Huret rear and front derailleurs. My 1970 "record" has SunTour "V" rear der., but I believe that to be a replacement for Huret. The tubing was 20-30 steel, which is a tad lighter than the 1020 and 1010 steel tubes. Componentry is the only tool I have for estimating the production date. Stickers can be useful, as on the '77/78 "RRA"'s there are stickers for the championship team...a bit lost on the "records", but nonetheless a good advertising ploy.
They are good riding machines, competing with UO-8's and Schwinn "varsity/continental" series bikes, they are a right in between. The UO-8's are lighter and handle better, but they are ligher than the Schwinn and handle better. Maybe a bit tougher than the UO's, but not as strong as a "varsity", but no bikes were tougher built, IMHO. I notice differences in construction quality with the few that I have. Some have real tight lugs and others have small gaps between the lugs and tubes. Just slight, but enough to be noticeable. Just like any other mass produced item, I guess. They are comfortable bikes to ride and they make good commuters, IMHO. Put a set of Specialized or Bonetragers on alloy wheels and you have a really decent ride.
You'll pass MTB's, no problem.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What Raleigh is this? posted by JONathan on 4/15/2004 at 1:25:24 AM
If you decide to swith up to alloy wheels, get the hooked-bead rims. These will handle the high pressure tires. You can't run hp tires on those steel rims...the tire will boil right off. I've blown out two good tubes. I have one of those Sturmey-Archer 27's and I would not put a hp tire onto it.
I'd like to think that my "records" are worth something besides just being a good ride, but there were a lot of those bikes put out the door in the '70's. I'm still a sucker for the Raleigh's and I pick them up whenever I can get one cheap.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: What Raleigh is this? posted by Martin Kauper on 4/15/2004 at 4:10:13 PM
Thanks Guys! Your suggestions are very informative. It's a nice bike and my wife's real happy with it, but the question of its origins have been driving me slightly crazy. Thanks again!

MISC:   Terrific Weekend...Bikewise posted by: Rob on 4/13/2004 at 5:19:02 PM
Well...that was a terrific weekend...four days off...and the weather on Saturday and Sunday was like a July weekend..hot and dry...by Northwest standards...26C+(80F) ...lots of cycling... a couple of long workouts at the fintess centre... and even some good deals on bike parts... :)

I'll try to be brief...the first adventure, on Friday, was with a late 80s Miyata 912...all Shimano 600 (6400 model)...a cycling buddy is selling this bike, subject to a tamer crankset and a set of two sided street shoe pedals ...older rider, I guess... My part in this was, in exchange for the beautiful 600 crankset and the 600 platform pedals with toes clips, I was to supply a 170 Sugino GT crankset, (including spindle), with a 48t or less large ring, and a 36t or less small ring, street pedals, plus a longer spindle to maintain the chainline. I also had to agree to effect the swap...which was fine..I got to ride the bike 9 miles to my place to make the exchange, then 9 miles back...beautiful bike...light, responsive, and interesting to experience the change with the tamer crankset...pedaling the 48/36 config. seemed effortless...obviously slower, but on city streets, not a bad arrangement... If you have a chance at a Miyata 912 you won't be disappointed...:)

And the parts I found on Sunday...

a) Pat. 83 Nuovo Record rear der., very good condition ...$CDN20 ($US15)
b) Campy spindle (Italian BB)...$CDN20 ($US15) ...will replace the slightly pitted one I currently have...I now have a full Campy Italian BB set in excellent shape...
c) Campy platform pedals (all Al.) with Campy toe clips...worn, but OK...and those beautiful Campy bearings!!...$CDN5 ($US3.75)
d)Cyclone II front der. good shape...$CDN5 $US3.75)...the mate for a Cyclone II three-pulley rear der. I got earlier in the weekend along with SunTour BL (Blueline) shifters, front and rear der...this is the 'black' version, which I had heard of before... all for $CDN15.00 ($US11.25). I now have three of the SunTour three-pulley rear ders...ARx,XC, and now Cyclone II...why do I want these...who knows...:)
e) Zeus 53t chain ring worn, but still pretty good... for $CDN15 ($US 11.25)...thanks to the discussion CBD last week I was quickly able to figure out what I had...70mm chord x 1.7013 = 119.1 mm or 120mm. I checked my reference material and found that 120mm is a unique, or essentially so, Zeus size...I'll be looking now for a Zeus crankset..which I'm sure I'll find sooner or later...

All and all a perfect long weekend...couldn't be better for a vintage bike nut...:)

   RE:MISC:   Terrific Weekend...Bikewise posted by Rob on 4/13/2004 at 6:06:55 PM
...I got the SunTour three-pulley and Blueline stuff, earlier in the week...not 'earlier in the weekend'...And I almost forgot to mention the used Diadora cycling shoes with red Look cleats...$0... The shoes are fairly worn and too small for me, but the cleats and attachment hardware were worth the effort to carry them to the car...:)

   RE:MISC:   Terrific Weekend...Bikewise posted by T-Mar on 4/13/2004 at 6:33:49 PM
Sounds like you got some great buys! I agree with your assessment of the Miyata 912. Miyata is my personal favourite of all the Japanese production bikes. By the way, based on your description, it should be a 1988 model. This was the only 912 with the Shimano Ultegra 6400 series. This can be confirmed via the colour scheme, which should be blue (forks, head tube, forward 1/3 of top and down tubes, top 1/4 of seat tube) and black (stays, back 2/3 of top and down tubes, bottom 3/4 of seat tube), Blue and black sections are separated by 4 bands(yellow, grey, white, light blue). Miyata logos are blue with a yellow shadow. If this doesn't match, let me know. I have a complete set of late '80s Miyata catalogues.

   RE:MISC:   Terrific Weekend...Bikewise posted by T-Mar on 4/13/2004 at 6:50:38 PM
Rob, just thought I would give you some info on those red, LOOK cleats. Most people assume that the red cleats will provide "float". While this is true, there are two styles of red cleats. The older (and rarer), red cleats provide "float" only with the old Carbon Pro pedals, and will not "float" with the newer pedals, though they will work as a fixed cleat. I just thought I should warn you in case you got a pair that wouldn't "float".

   RE:MISC:   Terrific Weekend...Bikewise posted by Rob on 4/13/2004 at 9:07:31 PM
Thanks T-Mar ...impressive...that's it...1988...and the code on the components was "Lx" (I forget at the moment what the month code was on the crankset), which based on the Shimano sequence starting "Ax"=1976, is exactly 1988...

I tested the shoes with a set of Look pedals (early model, I think...white with hex-shaped yellow plastic dust cover over the outboard spindle end), and a set of Look-compatible Shimanos...1056 105SC)...there does seem to be plently of float...the person from whom I bought the Shimanos said they also have a float adjustment feature...I haven't figured that out yet...

   RE:MISC:   Terrific Weekend...Bikewise posted by Don on 4/14/2004 at 4:39:08 AM
I'm also a fan of Miyata, I have a dark metallic blue & bright yellow SevenTen, also my Specialized Expedition Touring has a 28,38,48 crank setup. Its one of my "easy riders" & at age 64 I'm beginning to appreciate it more. Don

MISC:   Ebay Dawes posted by: David on 4/13/2004 at 11:02:17 AM
Item #: 3672014065
The fork on this bike doesn't look "right" to me. Is it bent back? Or is it ok but has very little trail? (It's hard to imagine a touring frame with so little trail, but...)

   RE:MISC:   Ebay Dawes posted by T-Mar on 4/13/2004 at 7:22:49 PM
David, I think you are correct in saying that the fork is bent. Sometimes it is hard to tell from the photograph due to the distortion. JONathan explained this to me once, and I believe it was due to the angle of convergence, if I recall correctly.

However, in this particular case if you draw a line bewtween the axles you will notify that it is not parallel to the top tube, which rises noticably towards the front. This could be due to a fork which has had the rake reduced by impact, effectively increasing the length of the fork and lifting the head tube of the frame. The pictured rake would be very short for any 1972 road bicycle.

Of course the other possibility, given the repaint, is that it is not the original fork. However, with the exception of the extremely thin blades at the dropout, the fork and crown in particular, resembles that in a 1973 Dawes catalogue picture. I think it more likely that the fork was bent and straightened, hence the repaint, but the mechanic forgot to correct the rake. You have sharp eyes!

     Ebay Dawes posted by John E on 4/14/2004 at 3:49:26 PM
Beautiful bike, but I do agree that the top tube seems to slope downward towards the saddle. Perhaps the fork is under-raked, as T-Mar aptly suggests, and/or perhaps the fork crown is twisted, such that the steerer tube is not parallel to the fork blades. It is very hard to tell for sure from this picture.

   RE:  Ebay Dawes posted by JONathan on 4/15/2004 at 8:34:10 PM
Nice, indeed. The owner may assist in clearing up the question. Camera images can play tricks on the eyes. A "RealmRider" and a "Galaxy" represent the Dawes makes in my modest collection. The
"RealmRider" could be regular steel..just a guess, based on weight. The "Galaxy" is more likely R531 tubes, although the sticker is gone. The frame feels light when hefted onto the stand. What distinguishes the two models of Dawes in my collection is construction and component quality is very good. Of course, the "galaxy" has the edge in being very lightweight as bikeboom bikes go. As the rule we use for one measure of quality, the integral hanger, I am surprised to note that my "Galaxy" has a derailer tab to hang the rear derailer. The OEM is Simplex, front and rear. The previous owner of mine, bought it new in the '70's. Could this condition be the result of the "export" bikes being different? Possibly, there was the issue of component supply being low, so the tab enabled any derailer available to be slapped on the dropout. Mine has a all-chrome fork and a small dent in the front of the head-tube, just below the headbadge. The previous owner informed me that the bike had the forks replaced after a crash. The bike rides great. I hope the frame tubes are OK on that bike in question, because it sure has nice paint. Puts mine to shame. I can't decide if I would be better off keeping the "Galaxy", "As is", or if a new paint job would be the right thing. Any ideas there?

WANTED:   Want a tall roadbike stem posted by: Robert on 4/11/2004 at 10:50:52 PM
I'm looking for a tall roadbike stem. Need a quill dia. of 22.2 and handlebar clamp to be 25.4. I would like quill to be around 8" long . Reasonable priced. Thanks

   RE:WANTED:   Want a tall roadbike stem posted by MLCrisis on 4/12/2004 at 12:33:35 AM
You can get a nice Nitto Technomic stem in alloy from any bike stores that are supplied by Quality Bicycle Products (QBP) for $30-40. I have also found steel versions with quills up to 12" made by Pyramid for $10 or less. E-mail me if you would like a direct referral to mail-order sources for these.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mystery french bike posted by: tod on 4/9/2004 at 3:18:15 PM
Anybody know what this is? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2236243964&category=420&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBBI%3AIT&rd=1

looks interesting.. i bid on it but it is went a little too rich for my blood.. looks like a simplex drivetrain.. hand changer in front.. looks as though it has 26 inch wheels on it.. I am interested in bidding more but not really sure it is worth it..

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mystery french bike posted by marc on 4/9/2004 at 6:28:07 PM
It is pretty cool. I especially like the front rack and how it protects the headlight. Looks like there's alot of rust though. I would be worried about finding rust holes in the frame, especially if the front wheel is completely rusted through.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mystery french bike posted by JONathan on 4/10/2004 at 7:40:48 AM
A particularly nasty rust job has happened with some of the wheels that were on some of the hulky bikes I've acquired. The frames are OK as long as the seat was on the bike. The rims shed water, so rust buildup comes right off with a brass brush and soap. The inside is another story. The tire goes flat after a few months and water gets trapped inside the rim where is doesn't vapor off...it just feeds the rust. I have a Schwinn s-6 rim that's shiny on the outside and completely rusted inside. Too bad, but the alloy hub and axle is fine. There were chunks of rust flaking off. That bike in question looks in good shape, since the paint is intact. I'd guess it is '50's, at least. That would look cool in a shop or restaurant as a display item. I wonder how many were junked, as that one came close to being scrap metal.
Maybe it would be good as a theater prop or as a period movie set item. Very interesting bike, IMHO. I would not go that high as I have no specific use for it, but it would be worth it in the right circumstance. Fun to see, anyway.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mystery french bike posted by David on 4/10/2004 at 12:36:30 PM
It appears to use "650B" wheels (26 x 1 1/2) and has the beautiful LeFol beaten aluminum fenders. I don't know who actually built it, but it's outwardly similar to the excellent touring bikes built by Alex Singer and Rene Herse. I guess the high rollers bidding on it know a bit more than I do.

AGE / VALUE:   Anyone Familiary With a Superia? posted by: Roger on 4/8/2004 at 9:35:07 PM
Is anyone familiar with the Superia brand? It looks 70ish, very similar to a Peugeot UO-8 with a cottered steel crank, Simplex derailleur/shifters, Mafac Racer brakes a Pivo stem and alloy bars. The hubs look sort of like Normandy, but there is no logo. What caught my eye though is the sticker on the seat tube that looks like a Reynolds sticker. The top line is “Guaranteed built with,” the second line is “Frame Tubes,” the third line is “Forks Stays” and the fourth line is “Bonderized.” All four lines are superimposed on the large green initials “R C” (Reynolds Corp?). I haven’t had a chance to take it apart yet to see what the threading and other sizing is to get a clue about country of manufacture and would appreciate any info regarding the Superia brand.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Anyone Familiary With a Superia? posted by T-Mar on 4/9/2004 at 12:47:33 AM
Superia was a Belgium marque that sponsored various professional teams throughout the '60s & 70s. Belgium bikes use either English or French threading. I believe I read that the Superia uses French threading, though I may be mistaken.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Anyone Familiary With a Superia? posted by Roger on 4/9/2004 at 2:40:17 PM
Thanks for the info on Superia. Do you think the tubing sticker could be Reynolds or that it just looks like a Reynolds sticker?
Roger R.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Anyone Familiary With a Superia? posted by T-Mar on 4/9/2004 at 5:00:40 PM
I've never seen a Reynolds tubing decal that matches what you describe.

I forgot to mention that the legendary Eddy Merckx first turned pro with the Solo-Superia squad in 1965. However, there is much question to the true lineage of the bicycles that Merckx road throughout his career. I have read that his Superia bicycle was fabricated by Masi.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Anyone Familiary With a Superia? posted by Roger on 4/9/2004 at 6:26:14 PM
Thanks for the info T-Mar. I think I'll save the Superia for a time my schedule slows a bit then give it a good once over.
Roger R.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Anyone Familiary With a Superia? posted by Chuck Schmidt on 4/10/2004 at 8:20:43 PM
From the Classic Rendezvous list--

The following sets forth information, written in Eddy's handwriting on April 7, 2003, that I obtained during my visit to his home in Meise earlier this year. -- Brett Horton

1965 - Superia (stock bike)
1966 - Peugeot (stock bike)
1967 - Peugeot (stock bike) and Masi
1968 - Masi
1969 - Marcel Van der Este (Belgian builder)
1970 - Pella (or Pello) Torino, Italy
1971 - Colnago and Kessels
1972 - Colnago and Kessels
1973 - Colnago and Kessels
1974 - DeRosa and Kessels
1975 - DeRosa and Kessels
1976 - DeRosa and Kessels
1977 - DeRosa

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Anyone Familiary With a Superia? posted by T-Mar on 4/11/2004 at 1:09:39 PM
Thanks Chuck (and Brett), for straighting this out. I had always wondered how a neo-pro would have the clout to stipulate a bicycle other than the sponsor's. The only plausible explanation would have been if Van Looy had demanded Masi frames for the entire Solo-Superia team. Merckx riding stock bicycles through part of 1967 makes more sense, as by that time he had established himself with several wins, notably a few Classics.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS TIRES posted by: marc on 4/8/2004 at 6:41:07 PM
I recently came into possesion of 4 sets of NOS tires in 27X 1/4 size. Two sets are Continental Super Sport 1000 tires. These are great tires, I mounted a pair on my fuji finest and they ride very well, and they are 8.5 bar/120 psi tires. Does anyone know if Continental still makes these? 3 of these tires were made in germany one was made in thailand although they are the same model. Should I expect a drop in quality with the thai tire?

The other two sets of tires are Schwinn HP? I think. I mounted a set on my everday bike, an old fuji absolute road bike (not the current ATB fuji model) and they seem a bit beefier than normal 1/4 wide tires. I haven't really comared them to anything else, this is just an eyeball observation. These tires appear to be from the 80's looking at the schwinn logo on the tag, did schwinn continue making tires for their older schwinn wheels into this time period? I once picked up an 80's world sport with araya alloy wheels with these tires mounted on it so I didn't think so. Either way, I like these bigger tires for commuting especially for those bumpy, pothole ladden, post winter chicago streets.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: NOS TIRES posted by Warren on 4/8/2004 at 11:00:43 PM
Yes, the contis are still made and available for not too much money...I've no idea whether the Thai tires rate equally well.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS TIRES posted by Don on 4/9/2004 at 3:40:02 AM
Continental sport 1000s: Nashbar has them in 27 x 1 1/8 & 1 1/4 widths for $14.95; I put a pair on my Centurion Touring bike & they are great all around tires for Winter riding. Mine are made in Germany. I have a pair of Clement tubulars that were made in Thailand & the quality is still there.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS TIRES posted by Lenny on 4/9/2004 at 5:54:28 PM
Hi Marc,

The Conti. Sport 1000 is a wonderful tire for the money. I've only seen Thai-made versions, but the quality seems very high. I have only used them on older, non-hooked alloy 27" rims (e.g. pre-1976 or so) so I only inflate them to 75 - 80 psi. (John E. I believe cautioned folks about this awhile back).
Regards, Lenny

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS TIRES posted by: marc on 4/8/2004 at 6:41:07 PM
I recently came into possesion of 4 sets of NOS tires in 27X 1/4 size. Two sets are Continental Super Sport 1000 tires. These are great tires, I mounted a pair on my fuji finest and they ride very well, and they are 8.5 bar/120 psi tires. Does anyone know if Continental still makes these? 3 of these tires were made in germany one was made in thailand although they are the same model. Should I expect a drop in quality with the thai tire?

The other two sets of tires are Schwinn HP? I think. I mounted a set on my everday bike, an old fuji absolute road bike (not the current ATB fuji model) and they seem a bit beefier than normal 1/4 wide tires. I haven't really comared them to anything else, this is just an eyeball observation. These tires appear to be from the 80's looking at the schwinn logo on the tag, did schwinn continue making tires for their older schwinn wheels into this time period? I once picked up an 80's world sport with araya alloy wheels with these tires mounted on it so I didn't think so. Either way, I like these bigger tires for commuting especially for those bumpy, pothole ladden, post winter chicago streets.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS TIRES posted by JONathan on 4/9/2004 at 4:11:04 AM
Marc, those "continentals" are excellent riding. I use one model that is girded with a heavy sidewall. The only thing is the regular ones don't take a beating like some of the "Specialized" and "Bonetragers" touring models that are still available in the 27's. I use all "Continental" tires on my touring road bikes. They hold air great and ride great. Save them for touring and use the tougher tires for city work.
I wash the "contis" with water after any muddy riding to keep the sidewalls clean. They'll last a long time if you get that salty mud off the sidewalls. I've been running Continental 120psi, 28-622's on my RB-1 and they are perfect for sport runs...they are lightweight with a level of comfort that's hard to beat. The "Armadillos" on my TeamFUJI ride a lot harder, but the footprint is small with 23-622 size. You can't beat those Fuji's you have for everyday riding. My brother rides a Fuji "pulsar" which is a remarkable ride. I'm always looking for Fujis, especially with the Valite tubes.
Good rides, JONathan

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS TIRES posted by marc on 4/9/2004 at 6:30:25 AM
I've got that fuji royale frame I posted about earlier. Chrome moly frame, its big though, if I remember its a 25 inch frame. tange headset, cool fuji badged crank set. I had it complete but I stripped it down, needed some of the parts for the finest. If you're interested, I'm always looking to trade.

   27" tyres posted by John E on 4/9/2004 at 1:59:07 PM
Has anyone noticed a recent increase in the availability of 27" tyres? Only my UO-8 has 27" rims, but it is nice to know that I can still get a choice of high-quality tyres for it. (I currently have 27 x 1-3/8" knobbies, but I read somewhere that those have been discontinued. I'll probably revert to heavy-duty 27 x 1-1/4" tyres when these wear out.)

   RE:27 posted by P.C. Kohler on 4/9/2004 at 2:42:23 PM
Another surprisingly good 27" tyre is the IRC Triathalon available through Nashbar. My newly acquired 1948 RRA has a pair of these in a 27" x 1" size mounted on 27" x 1 1/4" Conloy Asp rims... lovely ride, high pressure and they almost look like tubulars with their natural tan coloured sidewalls and slim profile. The only non-authentic aspect is the tread but that's not too noticable. I was surprised you can use 27" x 1" tyres to such good effect on a 27 x 1 1/4" rim.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS TIRES posted by Kevin K on 4/11/2004 at 2:43:17 PM
Hi Guys. Quality 27" tires can still be found. Both new and NOS. I found a set of 27"x1 1/8 folding NOS Cycle Pro's and 2 sets of NOS Schwinn 27"x7/8" 120 lbs. pressure fold ups. I gave $10 per pair. The Schwinn 7/8" are so nice. I've mounted them up on my Voyageur. I find these at swap meets. I've also had good luck finding the older German made Continental's. Those cost a quite bit more as did a set of NOS 27" Kelly Springfield's. Those were so cool. Sold them. Still bummed. I've also purchased several complete Schwinn bikes just for the original Schwinn Record tires on them. They are out there. Ya gotta look. Best, Kevin