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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by: Gralyn on 5/30/2004 at 3:01:58 AM
Since I had recently completed my Bottecchia project - I was trying to decide on which bike to work on next. Then, I thought maybe I might find a different bike altogether as my next project. Well, I was making my rounds - I pull into one store - and I spot an old lightweight out front. Of course, I'm thinking to myself...and wondering what it could be. I park - and get over to where the bike is parked....I get to the bike....and it's a Free Spirit. It wasn't in very good condition - and it didn't have any decent components either....oh well, I thought it may have been something.....So, I decide to go on inside the store. I get in - and I spot another lightweight. I go over to it....and it's a Raleigh Grand Prix. It's white, with black decals. It's in very good condition. The components are in good condition, not oxidized much at all. The rims and hubs are in good shape - and will shine with very little cleaning. The cranks and chainrings are very good also....even the pedals. It even had down-tube shifters. It looks to be all original......except for the rear rim - it's a Rigida. The front is Sturmey-Archer....which I believe was original for this model. I think it's going to look really nice once I restore it.

AGE / VALUE:   raleigh record posted by: johnny on 5/30/2004 at 2:25:48 AM
bought an old lightweight i think? the seat is a solid piece of thick leather,it says brooks competition,its 10 speed,only numbers i see are where the rear rim mounts to frame 101942,the reflector has the #69 on it,is this a 1969 raleigh record,are these collectable,or junk?? thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   raleigh record posted by Gralyn on 5/30/2004 at 2:59:39 AM
I believe the Record was the bottom of the Raleigh lightweigh line-up. They aren't really collectible - but they certainly are not junk. I'm not sure about 1969.....or the Raleigh's that old. I had a Record - it was a pretty good bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   raleigh record posted by JONathan on 5/30/2004 at 5:16:14 AM
When you look at what they were matched up against in that price range it is no wonder to me that they were a hot seller.
I snap up any "records" that I can find. They are real bikes, not toys. One that I have been working on was ridden hard for many miles based on component degradation. Basically have to junk the components on it, but the frame is rock solid. I have a mixte the same color scheme (white with orange HT). The mixte is in great shape, only required normal maintenance and brake blocks. I can't say much for the late '70's, but for early bikeboom and before, I think the "records" are worth hanging onto. They have classic appeal, IMHO. They were well made, too. Check the lugworks and paint to see for yourself.
Glad you got a quality machine to fix up. I'd say $200 if road ready. Good luck, they ride smooth. Peugeot UO-8's handle a bit better, IMHO, but those "records" are built well...for that period, like a durable "sports", only ten speeds.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Arctic posted by: SweetC on 5/30/2004 at 12:16:56 AM
I have an early 70's Arctic, made by Stella. I don't know a lot about them, other than they were imported for sale by Arctic Cat dealers, and are fairly rare. It was a little too small for me, so it has sat in garage for years. I'm moving now, so I have to get rid of it. It's in OK shape, not pristine oor anything. Is this something I should try to keep together and sell as built for historical purposes? Or is this type of bike OK to strip for the parts (Nervar Star crank, Weinmann/Tipo/Cyclo wheels, etc)? I'd like to try to recoup some of my initial outlay, but I don't want to destroy something that might be significant. Suggestions?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by: Brian L. on 5/28/2004 at 5:51:22 PM
A nice Austro-Damiler 531 mixte: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7298&item=3679831854&rd=1

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by RobA on 5/28/2004 at 11:07:49 PM
I had a look at the pics...that's an odd combination of components...I guess there's been some changes...the model, I see, is an "Inter 10", which is well up in the model line-up....I have an SLE, which, as I recall, would be a step or two below...Vente Noir and Ultima were at the top...I would guess this will be a late 70s, maybe 1980 bike...

Anyone else have any ideas?....

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by Shaun on 5/29/2004 at 5:10:20 AM
Looks nice, Rob. Are you sure this is Reynolds 531? I don't see any mention of it in the auction description and don't see the decal in the pictures.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by T-Mar on 5/29/2004 at 9:35:12 PM
It's 1978 or earlier. Both the Dura-Ace and 600 parts are original generation, prior to the EX models which were introduced in the latter half of 1978. If the Dura-Ace is original, it could be as old as 1974. If the 600 is orginal, then it's no older than 1976.

I have seen other references to the Inter-10 having Reynolds 531 tubing. If you look closely, there are small remnants of a decal on the seat tube and maybe a Reynolds decal on the fork blade. I'm giving Rob the nod on this one.

The Vent Noir used a full Dura-Ace group and was one model obove the Inter-10, which was fourth in the line-up. Therefore, I'd guess the 600 are probably original and that the bicyle is from 1976-1978. Rob, your AD-SLE is one model below the Inter-10, based on a 1978 ad that I have. Austro-Daimler is only company I recall that produced a high-end mixte frame. There were probably others that have slipped my mind, but I doubt there were very many!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by JONathan on 5/30/2004 at 5:29:50 AM
Motobecane "gran Tourer" had Vitus tubes. Mine is real lightweight and best paint work, as usual for Motos. I've seen a great Schwinn mixte, I think "Le Tour IV" that I passed up. I went back a few minutes and the monitor had placed a sold tag on the seat. I can't recall the steel, but that was a light bike and the components were higher grade Japanese.
I won't let that happen, again. See it, get it.
BTW, I find the mixte architecture great for climbs...real mountain goats.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by Jim_T on 5/31/2004 at 5:53:54 PM
I have an AD Inter-10 and it has a 531db frame with gippimene dropouts and had huret deraillers, nerver crank, weinmann sidepulls and the previous owner had installed a baby seat! I rode a Vent Noir that was Campy Grand Sport. I also saw a Puch Inter-10 with 531db frame.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by RobA on 6/1/2004 at 12:29:13 AM
Jim T...which model of Huret ders.? I can't remember which dropouts I have on my SLE...I'll check tonight...I'm pretty sure my SLE is 531db for the frame tubes only...the decal is hard to read, but I'll try and get a real close look...the forks, though, are apparently some sort of 'in-house' Puch-Steyr tubing, Puch-Steyr...apparently has, or had, military contracts with the Austrian gov't. I got the bike as a frame and, surprisingly, had trouble trying to fit a stem into the steerer tube...I'm not sure how steerer tubes are generally made, but this one was not seamless...it had a rather significant raised seam which I honed down until I could get the stem to fit...I was using a Cinelli stem... The bike is a nice rider, though I haven't been on it for a while...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by Brian L. on 6/1/2004 at 4:06:01 PM
The 531 decal is clearly visible on the drive side of the fork, just below the crown.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by JONathan on 6/1/2004 at 4:48:00 PM
That's my idea of a fine mixte! Thanks for posting. Most mixtes I find are in similar condition, most likely the result of nicer treatment. They are pretty stout geometry, as I've discovered, quite happily.
Nothing like the double down-tubes.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mixte fans posted by Jim_T on 6/1/2004 at 5:09:13 PM
The 531db downtube tubing sticker on my Inter-10 is similar to the ones used on Paramounts with 531 in betweeen stars not the 531 diagnol sticker from the 70's. Also I dont remember what model the Huret derailers were. I also remember seeing another AD with Huret derailers. There used to be a webpage about a person finding an Inter-10 frame at a bike shop basement where he worked and building it with different parts. You can also look at Mark Bulgiers(?) web site with vintage AD catalogs. I think you can find it thru the CR website.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bottom Brackets posted by: jack on 5/28/2004 at 8:05:07 AM
Hi Gang,

I'm trying to refurbish this pretty MotoB Jubilee Sport but having a BB problem. It wouldn't hold the bearing adjustment and the chainwheel had runout suggesting a bent spindle. Taking the BB apart AGAIN the spindle seemed ok but the right-side bearing retainer was trashed. I suppose I could have installed it backwards but I should know better.

Anyway, my question is, can I just get new balls and forget running retainers like many wheel bearings or do bottom brackets need bearing retainers?

Also, there is a well-known bike tech website that recommends pre-loading cup and cone bearings or excess slop and consequent wear will result. I always adjust to zero clearance with no preload. Which is right?

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bottom Brackets posted by JONathan on 5/28/2004 at 6:21:46 PM
A blithering sentence, above! I meant to complete it..."I have found that after all possibles were ruled out the problem was solved in 99%. Howvever, that 1% is the most interesting to explore".

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bottom Brackets posted by JONathan on 5/28/2004 at 6:22:41 PM
A blithering sentence, above! I meant to complete it..."I have found that after all possibles were ruled out the problem was solved in 99%. Howvever, that 1% is the most interesting to explore".

   what's going on? posted by JONathan on 5/28/2004 at 6:26:55 PM
I have no uidea where in the thread this may appear, but my double entry above was in reference to MY post. The reason it came up twice was I looked for it at the bottem and didn't see it, sent again. Sorry for the confusion.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bottom Brackets posted by T-Mar on 5/28/2004 at 9:11:11 PM
I concur with John E. and Wayne's statements, though I always try for zero play. Whenever I rebuild a bottom bracket, I attach the drive side crankarm before making the final adjustments to the adjustable cup. Then after I've made the ajustments, and before I attach the non-drive side crankarm, I tug sideways on the crankarm at several points of the rotation. The extra leverage of the crankarm allows you to detect small amounts of play that are not discernible if you just tug on the bottom bracket spindle. If there's play, I can re-adjust without having to remove the non-drive side crankarm and I can usually get a good setting with less attempts than just a bare bottom bracket spindle. This method probably pre-loads the bearings compared to setting a bare bottom bracket spindle to zero play, though I hadn't actually thought about it until the question was asked!

The difficulty with this method is that you will often get a particular point of rotation where there is zero play, while there is play at others. The problem is more noticeable on less expensive bicycles and is probably attributable to the bottom bracket shell not being properly faced, or being faced prior to painting, though it could also be uneven wear on the cups or spindle.

I've had good results using this method. My 1975 Scapin got over 150,000 km on the original Nuovo Record spindle and cups, before it started to wear through the bearing race to the soft, cup material. My 1991 Gianella has about 60,000 km on the original Dura Ace spindle and cups, with plenty of life left.

I once experienced a bottom bracket that would not hold it's adjustment. In my case, it turned out to be a loose fixed cup that was backing itself out whenever you rode it.

JONathan, I think you will find that most caged bearings used on a bicycle are standard size. Generally, the component manufacturers do not manufacture the bearings themselves and try to design their components around commercially available bearings, to keep costs down. This is also true of other harware, such as bolts, though there are some unique applications requiring bicycle specific designs. Consequently, I would think that most industrial supply houses would have caged ball bearings, except for the fact that most industrial equipment has gone to maintenance free, sealed, cartridge bearings. This is one area where the bicycle industry has been slow to adopt, though some progress is being made, particularly with bottom brackets. I know that I picked up replacement cartridge bearings for my Bullseye hubs at a bearing service shop, for less than half the price they wanted in the LBS.

I would think that there would be less friction with loose berings than with caged versions. With loose bearings the contact between bearings would be single point contact between two revolving surfaces. In the caged version, any single bearing could theoretically make linear contact with the fixed cutout in the cage, resulting in more friction. There is a shot in the video of the 1973 Giro d'Italia film, Stars and Water Carriers, showing the Bianchi mechanic preparing the bottom bracket of Ritter's bicycle for the time trial. He's popping the individual bearings out of the cages, prior to cleaning and installing them. If loose bearings are good enough for the pros....

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Bottom Brackets posted by jack on 5/29/2004 at 3:38:38 AM
Thanks to all for your advice. I replaced the 9 BB retainers with 11 BB loose bearing and cured most of my problems. I still have some (2 or 3mm) runout of the chainwheels but in a bike of this quality its good enough.

T-mar, your method of adj BB is right on. I used to just adj by feel of the spindle alone only to later find play when wriggling the crank arm. Much better to do final tightening with drive crank on.

    Bottom Brackets posted by John E on 5/29/2004 at 5:55:32 PM
Another thought: mark your spindle after removing one crank. When reassembling, position the cranks 90 degrees away from this point. Spindles and BB cups wear asymmetrically because the load on the cranks varies substantially through a full circle of rotation. If your cups and your spindle are worn slightly unevenly, you will never be able to eliminate play in all crank orientations. Always use new ball bearings, because they become ellipsoidal with use, and this can also preclude a good adjustment.

      Bottom Brackets posted by John E on 5/28/2004 at 2:13:39 PM
I routinely toss retainered bearings and replace them with brand new loose balls, usually 1/4" for the BB. You are always better off WITHOUT the bearing retainer, because your spindle will last longer and you will be able to obtain a better bearing adjustment. Factories and repair facilities prefer bearing retainers because they save valuable assembly time.

If "preloading" means overtightening and then backing off to the desired adjustment, as opposed to tightening directly to the desired adjustment, then I suppose I often preload. However, I believe strongly that if one cannot obtain that perfect adjustment point of easy rotation with zero play, it is better to adjust bearings to be very slightly too loose than slightly too tight. Another thought on BB bearing preload: you actually may want to set your BB bearings a bit too tightly, because tightening the lockring will pull the adjustable cup outboard, loosening the bearing adjustment minutely. This is the opposite of the standard advice for QR wheels, under which one leaves just a bit of slop before tightening the QR skewer, which then squeezes the cones toward one another. As usual, consult Sheldon's website: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbadj.html

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bottom Brackets posted by Wayne on 5/28/2004 at 4:17:06 PM
Good advice John, I do bearing rebuilds in exactly the same way. I just want to add one additional point.
If you remove a bearing retainer you must add extra ball bearings to the race being re-built, as the retainer took up extra room. The easy way to figure this is to fill the race with bearings until there is a tight fit and then remove one bearing.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bottom Brackets posted by JONathan on 5/28/2004 at 6:11:06 PM
I always defer to experts, but curiosity has me looking at the problem of retainer vs. no-retainer (loose ball bearings) with one question in mind. Those bearing retainers keep the bearings from bearing-beraing contact...which is a source for friction. But, there are fewer taking on the load. Trade off, as usual. Is the reduced bearing-on-bearing friction of retainer use offset by the increased load spread out over the fewer bearings in a retainer setup? I suppose a more critical question focuses on the quality of bearing. I found a place that sells all kinds of bearings. The chap may have some higher quality ball bearings than those used on most bikes. This would make loose bearings the best by default; I don't thinkan industrial supply would have bike-specific retainer-ringed bearings. My thoughts on your specific problem are to replace with new loose ball bearings. I suspect the reatiners might be the source, assuming you hand them in correct. The end-play you describe seems very significant. Something is not setup right or the cranks are not seated correctly on the spindle ends, perhaps. You have the right idea in being systematic in eliminating possibles. I have found that after all possibles. Good luck,

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bottom Brackets posted by Ken on 6/1/2004 at 6:16:59 PM
Jobst Brandt, the author of _The Bicycle Wheel_, recommends preload of BB bearings. I believe his explanation is somewhere in the thread
although I didn't take time to reread the whole thing. These guys are always good for a debate.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by: Laurent Charbonneau on 5/26/2004 at 11:44:28 PM
Hi there,

I've just bought a Raleigh Criterium. It has full Shimano 600 Gruppo, 6 speeds freewheel but the frame is a little strange. I mean a bike that came with full 600 should be high end but this frame is made from "20-30 high tensile steel tubing". Correct me if wrong, but is not even Cromoly.

It's got the badge on the head tube that says : "The Raleigh, Nottingham England" but there is a sticker at the bottom of the seat tube that says Made in Canada!

Anybody know more about this bike. I think I will restore it it and using it has a tourer...

Thank you,

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by RobA on 5/28/2004 at 6:11:10 PM
I don't have a lot of insights into CDN Raleighs...I understand in the mid to late 1970s they opened a plant in or around Montreal, I think it was...you're right that the 20-30 tubing is fairly ordinary. Maybe someone wanted the better components when they bought the bike...also, it is possible that Raleigh marketed the bikes that way because they were able to get the components at a cheap enough price...I have one low-end bike...a RoadKing,early 80s, (cost me $CDN5) which I think is CDN-built, with a beautiful Shimano 600, mid 70s, rear der. that looks original...go figure!!

I have a Cdn-built Raleigh, as I recall I figured it was built in 1981, with only a headbadge, no other decals... (which says Nottingham, England) ...I think headbadges often only tell you were the company is based, not necessarily were the bike was built....Raleighs were built in many different parts of the world... and, the frame of my classically American Trek MTB is made in China...(I don't know were it may have been assembled...) ...the components are nice...mainly Shimano, as I recall, but interestingly, it has Cinelli bars...Giro d'Italia, I think...all looks original...the serial # starts off "RM..." (I forget the rest...)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by RobA on 5/28/2004 at 6:17:49 PM
I don't know if its clear..but in the last couple of lines of my post above, I'm refering back to my identity-challenged CDN Raleigh... :)

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by JONathan on 5/28/2004 at 6:45:16 PM
The 2030 steel rides real nice, it is a tad heavy for long hauls, but a triple-ring can deal with that. They used 2030 even in the RRA's from the late '70's. My RRA with 2030 is good pack-animal, but it can go pretty fast with empty packs. The "criterium" sounds like a racing machine, but the 2030 tubes don't fit the picture. The RRA's had Reynolds 531, even in the early '70s, and then the 2030 crept into the production. Until I found out that 531 was "the steel", I was thinking mine was real light and fast.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by P.C. Kohler on 5/28/2004 at 9:18:31 PM
At least for the North American market, the last "real" RRA was offered in 1973. White with mustard yellow trim. With mostly French components. 531 tubes and fork etc. But even then it wasn't the top-of-the-line model.

The proud name was last used, sadly, on bottom of the line 2030 Records (called Record Ace) c. 1975-76 and should NOT be confused methinks with anything remotely like the classic RRAs. In its heyday c. 1948-53 and briefly revived 1957-58, the "real" RRAs were superb, custom made machines.. the best Raleigh ever made in my humble opinion. The so-called Record Ace of the late 1970s was a bike boom bargain bottom-feeder.

P.C. Kohler, proud '48 RRA owner

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by T-Mar on 5/28/2004 at 10:31:20 PM
The Canadian Raleigh factory was opened in 1972, in Waterloo, Quebec, which is about 80km outside Montreal and about 275km from my home (just a good day's ride).

The serial number format for Canadian Raleighs is Rlnxxxxx, where R = Canada, l = letter representing fortnight of manufacture, n = number representing last digit of year of manufacture. Like Raleighs of British manufacture, you have to assume the decade based on components and frame details.

I'm not familiar with the Criterium model. It may have been unique to the Canadian marketplace. At first, I thought maybe you meant a Competition, but they used Reynolds 531 through at least the early '90s. Hi-tensile 2030 tubing with Shimano 600 is a bit of a suprise. You say it's full 600, but did you check the hubs, bottom bracket, pedals, headset and seat post, or just a few key pieces like the rear derailleur, crankarms and brakes? I ask because sometimes manufacturers would bate customers with a few upgraded components. Less educated customers focus on these components, particularly the rear derailleur, and often assume the remaining components and frame tubing are of equal level. By skimping on the other components and tubeset, the manufacturers could offer a Shimano 600 equipped bicycle at a bargain price.

A six speed, Shimano 600 would indicate a 1978-1987 era, but I thought that Raleigh had re-designated their hi-tensile steel to 18-23(?) sometime in the mid '80s - P.C., can you confrim this? Then again, the components may not be original. You can check the component date codes using the info on the Vintage Trek website and compare them to the frame serial number. If original, they should be within a year of each other.

If I had to guess (always dangerous), based on the limited info, I'd say it's 1978-1983 and a Canadian replacement for the venerable Grand Prix. Let us know what you find out with the serial number and components.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by JONathan on 5/29/2004 at 1:48:04 AM
I have one Raleigh "Record" that is white with mustard yellow trim with black highlights. The decals are pretty obliterated and any sticker for the tubing steel has disappeared completely. The bike frame is light, too. I took off everything, mostly Simplex and other European stuff. Cottered up cranks dated it before the mid-'70's, I presume. Serial numbers are little stamps, here and there...quite enigmatic to me. There are some on the BB shell, the dropouts and seat-tube (I think). I wondered if this could be a "Record Ace" with the lighter steel. It's a fun reclaimer, like most Raleighs.
As a ride, I prefer the Peugeots and almost any major Japanese bike (Fuji, Miyata, Centurion, Nishiki, etc) within the price range. However, the 2030 steel is pretty durable stuff, not racer intended. The Fuji's, for example, were priced way below their level of quality and performance. I notice superior craftsmanship in the construction. My RRA (and Gran Prix's) with the 2030 tubes are all over the quality scale. I see tight brazes on some lugwork and then gaps on others. Your "criterium" with Shimano 600 onboard, sounds interesting. Pretty high quality for a 2030 frame, IMHO. What's a couple more pounds on the frame, anyway? Nothing to me.
You give up some performance, but they are smooth riding with alloy wheels and good tires on there...try Continentals 120 psi "DuraSkin" on hooked bead rims. That will make things real nice.
Good luck. I have seen a "criterium" in a thrift store a couple years back. It was a golden-brown color (bronze?). At least I think it was a "criterium". It was a fine looking bike, but had a "sold" tag on it. I missed that boat...I mean bike.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by JONathan on 5/29/2004 at 4:49:30 AM
This one looks more like an orange over white. I guess it's just a regular frame, just seems lighter. The "Gran Prix" seems light, too. One has wrap=around seat-stays, while the other has cotterless cranks (no wrap-around stays) and Japanese running gear as standard. The rear derailers look ,ike SunTour branded "V"'s, which would make it late '70's. There is the "championship" sticker which would make it '77/78 vintage.
Your "criterium" appears to be later, as Tom figured, and it appears a bit higher quality than my later "Gran Prix". Later "Gran Prix's" went to Reynolds 531. There was the USA aluminum frame "Gran Prix", too. Shimano "600" is real high quality componentry, that's the kicker on the "criterium". I'll try to find out from a local lBS guy who knows Raleighs from that era. I'm curious, now, if I wasn't before.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by RobA on 5/30/2004 at 2:15:18 AM
In the interests of complete accuracy... When I got home I checked my CDN Raleigh...my memory is getting unreliable...:) The front der is a SunTour V-Compe (date code WL=Dec 1980; the rear is a basic steel SunTour V-GT date code WH=Aug 1980, the brakes are Dia Compe sidepulls and the crank a "Silstar"... the stem "SR" and the bars are Cinelli "Campione del Mondo"...a bit of surprise I would say... The first part of the serial # is "RM1...", indicating the end of Dec 1981... It has nice Schurmann steel rims ....I rode it most of the winter a couple of years ago ...it's a nice, strong basic bike...a good performer...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by T-Mar on 5/30/2004 at 3:13:48 PM
Rob, one small clarification. The second letter in the serial number indicates the fortnight of manufacture, not the month. Therefore your frame was manufactured in week 25 or 26 of the year. It's a mid year frame, as opposed to year end.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by Tom M on 5/30/2004 at 4:20:08 PM
I have a friend who has the same Raleigh Criterium that Laurent has. It is exactly the same as his, 600,s, 20-30 etc. It was bought new in Winnipeg back in late 70's or early 80's from what he recalls.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by Rockie on 6/25/2004 at 4:59:27 AM
I have a Raleigh Criterium which I bought used in about '82. Components included Shimano 600 deraillers, shifters, brakes (including levers), crankset, and had Dura-Ace cable clamps. The paint was a light green metallic with black lettered decals. The front fork was half chrome. Quick release on the wheels. Cant remember what the hubs were. Anyone have information on this model?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Criterium posted by Patty on 6/27/2004 at 10:53:07 PM
I bought a bike at a garage sale. It looks really old but in good condition. I am wondering when it was made. The headband on the front of the bike says, "The Raleigh", Nottingham, England". Would you know?

AGE / VALUE:   1980 Olmo Competition posted by: Jim on 5/26/2004 at 8:46:59 PM
I may have an opportunity to buy a 1980 Olmo Competition, Campy components, excellent condition. Owned by a true biking enthusiast who is meticulous in the keeping of his bicycles. Can anyone give me an idea of what I should pay for this bicycle. Thanks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1980 Olmo Competition posted by T-Mar on 5/27/2004 at 1:16:52 PM
The Olmo Competition frames that I've seen have been Columbus SL. This is good quality tubing. However, I've seen these frames equipped with some mid range Campagnolo equipment such as Nuovo Gran Sport and Victory. The price will vary substantially, depending on the component model. Verify the tubeset and component models.

AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by: kirkpatrick on 5/26/2004 at 1:23:39 PM
I recently disassembled my wifes big frame schwinn bike that she got in grade school. It looked like it hadn't been cleaned since it was bought, no wonder she had a hard time pedaling it.
Well anyway, I cleaned all the bearings from the front to the rear and top to bottom, and repacked them with litheum wheel bearing grease, and assembled it back together last night and went for a ride. Everything was smooth and worked great, except that when you pedal it, then coast, then try to repedal it again, the crank has to turn a 1/4 to 1/2 turn to catch up so you can engage to pedal again. There is only one way to assemble the rear drum assembly back together again. Sooooooooooooo, what did I do wrong? All the parts were inspected and looked ok with little wear or no wear. It didn't do this before, but it was caked with hard dry grease.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by JONathan on 5/26/2004 at 11:02:34 PM
Well, at least you got propulsion, That is good. I have read somewhere that a worn "driving clutch" on a type of single coaster hub (can't recall the make) could cause the excessive play. I know coaster brakes are operated by a splined cylinder that spirals into the hub to expand the shoes. They recommend replacing the "retarder springs" during unit overhaul, although the couple I've done, I didn't replace any parts. They worked fine. Tricky little buggers, those are. What brand and model designation is it? I'll check the trouble-shooting section. Odd thought here, maybe the grit and sludge was serving a purpose by providing friction, at the expense of internal wear and hard pedalling. You did the right thing cleaning and lubing, no doubt. These bikes amaze me with their strange twists of logic.
Good luck. Glenn's manual from the '70's is a good used-bookstore find. If you run across one, snap it up. The pictures and descriptions are excellent. Schematics for all kinds of internal drive hubs.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by sam on 5/28/2004 at 10:50:26 PM
English coasters adjust from the left side (oppsite american coasters)1 loosen both axel nuts 2 loosen cone lock nut and turn axel by the squar on the right end of it. 3 securely retighten the lock nut--there should be just a trace of side play for proper adj / slips while appling brake--drag spring on actuator is worn or durty.--sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by RobA on 5/27/2004 at 12:06:20 AM
...just to throw in my two cents worth...I don't have anything specific, but you can get amazing details off the web...just think up some logical search parameters... A couple of months ago I was looking for information on a 5-speed Sachs hub I 'lucked' into...well, after a bit of digging around I hit the motherlode, more information than I cared to have... Can't, of course, promise what you'll find...:)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by KIRKPATRICK on 5/27/2004 at 1:58:35 PM
The rear axle is a PERRY, and has the brass brake shoe inside the drum with the left and right cog fittings with the four spirle teeth on each side and they mesh into a paul frame assembly with 5 little roller bearing rollers setting inside the frame, which seperate the brass sleeve out against the inside of the drum inside the rear axle housing. I think I explained that correctly, it looks simple yet complicated.


   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by Douglas on 5/27/2004 at 3:34:19 PM
I buy every bicycle maintenance book I find. They're cheap and very useful sometimes. The first book I ever found and what got me started in this hobby was Learn To Fix Your Bike by John W. McFarlane. There's all the fairly basic stuff covered in every other book but it also includes exploded views and step-by-step illustrated instructions for overhauling Bendix, Komet, Torpedo Boy, Sachs-Jet, Shimano, Mattatuck, New Departure and yes, even Perry coaster brakes.It also includes overhaul procedures for the S-A 3 speed hub with and without the coaster brake as well as the 2 speed kickback auto by Bendix. It's very reassuring to have above my workbench.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by JONathan on 5/27/2004 at 8:58:16 PM
The McFarlane book is excellent. I have the 1976 edition which includes 10-speeds. It is fun to read, too. He's got a real sense of humor.
Under his name on the title page is printed; "BIKUS NON LUBRIUM BUSTICUS". The editins go back to the late 40's, so a lot of vintage bikes are covered if all 4 or 5 editions are in your library. On the particular "lazy crank syndrome" described in the original post, McFarlane has a list of "possibles"...most requiring parts replacements, but there are two quick fixes. One is loose bearing cones. Two is gummed up driving screw.
There you have it. The Perry "B-500" is covered with schematic. Recommends using a light oil on driver threads. I would do the cones again and oil up the driver threads. Good luck, let us know what gives.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by Wings on 5/28/2004 at 6:34:30 AM
When you indicate a half turn movement do you mean from brake position to pedal position? By "drum brake" do you really mean a coaster brake? Perry made those and they were on Schwinns. The basic rule for a coaster brake is to hold the rear wheel off the ground and move the cog from where it starts to brake to where it stops (ready to move the wheel position). It that is 90 degrees or greater it has worn out parts -- get a new hub. I hope that helps.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by kirkpatrick on 5/28/2004 at 1:09:41 PM
When you are riding the bike and coasting, and you put the brake on, which doesn't seem to have a good effect anyway, but when you go from the brake position to start to pedal again, it might go almost a 3/4 a turn before you catch up to start to engage to pedal again. Yes I meant coaster breaks. This didn't start doing this until I got everything cleaned up and relubed.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by Ken on 6/1/2004 at 5:56:12 PM
I would check to see if you have the locknuts down snug with proper bearing adjustment. A little excess play in the bearings of a coaster can leave room for a lot of rotation in the driver.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by Jack on 6/24/2004 at 5:03:35 PM
i am also looking for 2 speed hubs .what price are you giving them at this time?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slack in rear drum brake assembly posted by Jack on 6/24/2004 at 5:03:39 PM
i am also looking for 2 speed hubs .what price are you giving them at this time?

AGE / VALUE:   wow, wow, and wow! posted by: John E on 5/26/2004 at 2:48:40 AM
This is one of the most beautiful bicycles I have ever seen:


(It is also selling on eBay for over $800 at the moment.)

Since the original derailleurs would have been Campag. Gran Sports (been there, done that with the Capo), I do not fault the original owner for upgrading to NR.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   wow, wow, and wow! posted by JONathan on 5/26/2004 at 4:13:04 AM
Vintage, indeed. That was great to see. The cranks look quite long, possibly 175 or 180mm? They knew how to make bikes that were magnificent artworks in addition to all their other qualities as superb road machines.
Thanks for posting.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   wow, wow, and wow! posted by T-Mar on 5/26/2004 at 4:16:17 AM
Make sure you take a look at the other bicycles in his album. He has a very nice collection.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cloth bar tape posted by: Gralyn on 5/26/2004 at 2:25:05 AM
Does anyone have experience applying cloth bar tape? I have some to put on some of my old lightweights....I recently attempted to put some on my Bottecchia.....but it doesn't look very good. It doesn't seem to work as easy as vinyl padded, cork, or ribbon.

Does anyone know the proper way to do this?

    Cloth bar tape posted by John E on 5/26/2004 at 2:48:23 AM
Start at the ends of the bars, take your time, and keep the tape under significant tension. It may be harder to apply than the other technologies, but it will also hold up longer.

   RE: Cloth bar tape posted by Gralyn on 5/26/2004 at 2:01:00 PM
Maybe that's it - maybe I wasn't keeping enough tension on the tape as I applied it. I see that it would take considerable effort to keep the required tension to keep the tape from wrinkling.

AGE / VALUE:   Sutton posted by: john on 5/25/2004 at 9:39:03 PM
Greetings: Would appreciate any info on the following: Sutton with Shimano QR front wheel(steel), Shimano 500 dr, Tourney center pulls, Silkstar cranks, "High Tension Double Butt Tubing" on seat tube, but no indication as to model. Did a quick search and couldn't find out much about the maker. Based on components, looks like a starter bike from the 80's. Overall decent shape with one crank slightly bent that doesn't seem to have caused any problems, but will know more after teardown. Thanks. john

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Premis posted by: Peter on 5/25/2004 at 4:33:54 AM
Does anyone know anything about a Schwinn Premis bike?
I bought this bike at a garage sale after riding it ... picked it up for 40 bucks! got a stand and a roof rack for our van included ... (it is very quick and true!) excellent shape, shifts through all gears ... looks like it is a precision machined bike ... has a serial number on the bottom but cannot find any reference to how to tell what year it is on the internet ... the guy I purchased this from said it might have been about 10 years old ...
all complete ... right down to the strapped racing pedals ... I have found one on Ebay that sold for 150 bucks ... looks like mine except the color ... Mine is white and silver ... I was wondering what they sold for originally ... and if anyone can tell me anything else about these bikes ... is this really a racing bike ???? looks like it ...
I have no desire to sell it ...it is a pleasure to ride ... so selling it is not my concern ... my wife says it's a father's day gift for me ...!!!
thank you in advance to all that respond

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Schwinn Premis posted by JACK on 5/25/2004 at 5:33:34 AM
Peter, I can't add too much info but coincidentally I found a scrapped Premis a week ago (#J743330). Decal says Columbus Tenax and headbadge reads Schwinn Chicago though I suspect the frame is made in Japan. Semi-Wraparound seatstays and decent lugwork indicate good quality. No eyelets on dropouts and geometry suggest race. Can anyone add more?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Schwinn Premis posted by Point on 5/25/2004 at 8:10:05 PM
I've got a Premis. Made in 1988 I believe. Columbus tubing and Suntour Cyclone shifting. I don't know if it's a Japanese frame or not, but it sure resembles others of the time from Japan with the frame details. It is a nice solid frame and I believe was in the second tier racing category from Schwinn along with the Prelude and Tempo

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Premis posted by Fred on 5/25/2004 at 9:36:26 PM

I have a mint condition Premis that I found in a shop in Fl. It was traded in by a lady who didn't like the fit. The bike is of fine quality thoughout, but the most striking feature is that the components e.g., crank, shifters, headset, brake calipers etc. are either enameled or powder coated in white, I am not about to scratch around to determine which. The result is quite attractive. As for it's age, I would rather think mine is from the 70's or early 80's since the shifters are mounted on the down tube. I'm sure others of our bunch can provide some insight on the subject. If you want to know more about my Premis, E-mail me and I will send a complete description.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Grand prix posted by: Steve on 5/24/2004 at 10:51:35 PM
I need advise on a Raleigh Grand Prix 14 speed with shinamo
rx 100 components ,6061t8 aluminin frame 700x20c tires. The full model name is Raleigh Technium Grand Prix made in USA.
Question is this a good road Bike? Thanks for your advise. Steve

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Grand prix posted by JONathan on 5/25/2004 at 1:38:14 AM
Coincidence that I met a chap who raced a few years, I think he mentioned professionally for a time, who was having a garage sale with his Raleigh "gran Prix" on the block for $250. I got the original wheel set, minus the FW for $5. They are Weinmann "913", 622/700c rims with "CCB Mech" Sealed hubs. He mentioned they were out of true. Well, I could barely see what he was saying when I gave them the spin/see.
Obviously he's serious about riding. The "Gran Prix" was Reynolds 531 steel, not the thremal bonded Aluminum. He had $250 as the price for the bike. The setup was high end, but I didn't go over the details. Since he lives so close, I could try an find some info about it, but the steel frame might date it earlier than yours. He raced a green "RB-1", by coincidence, as I have one just like it, only blue and white.
He's fixing the "RB-1" up, and wants to part with the "Gran Prix". Great commute bike for $250. I believe that Seattle, Wa. is/was Raleigh-USA location. I have 14 sp. Technium "Olympian" which is a fast bike. Same Aluminum frame tubes, but I can only give some details for the "Olympian", if you want. I can e-mail the specs.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Grand prix posted by kris on 6/14/2004 at 6:15:54 PM
I just bought a Grand Prix Raleigh bike for $100. It was used by a guy who did Ironman competitions and he had it for over 10 years. He has now upgraded to a $5,000 bike but he said this bike treated him well. I hope to make use of it for several triathlons.

MISC:   used frames posted by: JONathan on 5/24/2004 at 9:53:41 PM
I spent a few hours on Sunday taking down a few bikes that I've had "collected" that are not ones that were not rideable in their present condition and I've got a list of project bikes that will keep my interest for a year...the rate I work on these hulks. So, I decided to organize my "bikedome" including some weeding out. Well, I couldn't.
These frames are in excellent shape. The likes of; Centurion "Le Mans", Univega "gran Sport", Motobecane "Super Mirage", etc. Nothing real superb, but still nicely constructed and sound. I ended up taking down to the frame, hit the rust spots with a rubberized dremel wheel and touched up the paint. I tried to match the color, but I'm no artist when it comes to mixing up paint. They look OK, but mainly the rust has been sent begging. I made a lot of room by doing this organizing, but I really can't decide if these are worth even the incidental space they consume. My question is, are these worth the effort it takes (although it was kinda fun) to prep these for longterm storage. I mean, fixed so they won't rust out while they wait for the opportunity to get back on the road. I converged in a major effort to go through the wheels, which resulted in clearing out a lot of junky wheels, that never could have been in service, except as a last resort. I kept the hubs, if they were good alloy or anything well dated or unusual. Two c's are welcome.
Thanks, JONathan

   RE:MISC:   used frames posted by Derek Coghill on 5/24/2004 at 10:44:41 PM
Check for rust inside the tubes too, might be worth waxoyling them or something similar.

   RE:RE:MISC:   used frames posted by JONathan on 5/25/2004 at 1:12:41 AM
Yes, Derek, quite good advice. I meant to say; "These are NOT rideable"...not as I stated in double-negative form, above.
Well, I was just wondering about the disposition of beater frames that are sound. Charity outlets are not taking raw stuff like this. It was tempting to pile them for the pick-up. They are too good for land-fill, as are many useful items that seem to get tossed. They'd be great beaters or commuter bikes or even I wonder about a rental concession at resorts. Great way to see an area one might visit. I know, they want new bikes.
Well, if a frame has rust inside, that's it for the frame, IMHO. It'll keep working it's way right on through to the outside. These have hardly any rust, just surface oxidation that puffs right off with the rubber disc. I only notice these when I go looking for them. I have a digital index of my collection, that's not complete, but I'm working my way through. The system works pretty well, with parts marked as to which bike, in case an OEM restoration is the call for any particular bike somewhere down the line.
I use WD-40 as it handles woodworking tools that rust easier than anything. I've heard of Boeshield as a rust inhibitor. WD-40 is cheap and it works for me. I've used silicon spray on some frames, but I would guess sand or bead blasting would be required to get the steel to take a primer after silicon has coated the surface. Just speculating, here. Thanks,

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   used frames posted by Edward in Vancouver on 5/25/2004 at 3:59:02 AM
As far as rust treatment goes, I'm a big fan of Oxilic acid. It's a white crystal-like powder mixed with water commonly used as a wood bleach/surface prep, but lots of marine mechanics use it for rust removal as well. It's not caustic, a lot of people use it to remove rust stains from clothing or carpets as well. I've had great success with it in removing rust inside the box sections of those clunky 26 x 1 3/8 Raleigh rims, as well as soaking off frozen bolts, cable clamps, nuts etc.

Anybody out there ever use it on bike frames?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   used frames posted by JONathan on 5/25/2004 at 4:40:00 AM
Oxalic acid (which is what I think you meant to say) is very toxic.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   used frames posted by schwinnderella on 5/25/2004 at 6:20:55 AM
At one time oxalic acid was the rust remover of choice among beer can collectors.I believe it has been added to the list of hazardous substances by the EPA.It can destroy bone calcium entering the skin through osmosis,it can also damage the lungs through breathing the fumes.Long term effects are still being discovred.JONathan is right it is very toxic.Do not use it!

   RE:MISC:   used frames posted by RobA on 5/25/2004 at 4:59:00 PM
Thanks for the heads up on oxalic acid...I checked a bit further on the web...I'm such a 'clutz' with the cleaners and other chemicals I do use, I don't need to be tempted by the "promise" of another one.... This weekend, while fixing a toilet, I managed to get that toilet bluing sanitizer on my hands and one arm...don't ask how, or why it's even in the toilet tank...it never will be again...:) Here's an excerpt on oxalic acid from:


"In really gross quantities, oxalic acid is a dangerous poison. Such quantities are found in manufactured products such as some bleaches, some anti-rust products, and some metal cleaners; about the only place in nature that oxalic acid occurs at possibly toxic levels is in rhubarb leaves (which is why many rhubarb articles carry warnings about that, and why one eats only the stalks)."

I've heard that Boeshield is great stuff...I haven't found a non-mail order supplier yet, but I have looked... Probably Tremclad carefully applied to interior accessible areas would be OK??? It certainly works on things like wrought iron railings and such....

AGE / VALUE:   An item with history posted by: Derek Coghill on 5/24/2004 at 9:47:14 PM
Providing negotiations with the owner go ok, I'll hopefully be acquiring the frame, forks and (titanium) stem from Francesco Moser's 1976 Giro D'Italia bike. The frame needs a chainstay replaced. Oh dear, I'm actually going to have to restore something! Must have a look-see what components I should be looking for for it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   An item with history posted by Derek Coghill on 5/27/2004 at 11:08:22 PM
I should be collecting it this weekend. I had a search around the internet but couldn't find any photos of it, only lists of results. Any ideas anyone? What I'm getting is the frame, forks, bb, stem. Both bb and headset are Campagnolo.