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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

MISC:Larz Anderson National Bike Show Photo albums 2003-2004 posted by: Peter Naiman on 8/13/2004 at 3:58:52 PM
I've put together albums of the last two years of Larz if anyone to view really great cycles. If you click on the URL below, you can view full albums of the last two years
of Larz. There aresome very exotic and interesting Antiques and Highwheelers, take a peak at the 2003 Album.
Peter Naiman
Boston, MA



VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Bianchi serial numbers posted by: John E on 8/13/2004 at 2:46:47 PM
If anyone else is interested, we can try to decipher Bianchi serial numbers. Here is what little I know:

1) Bianchi Corsa, a low-end 10-speed, purchased new in December 1962: 2F51703

2) Bianchi Campione d'Italia, TreTubi frame, with Pat 80 Campag. Record rear derailleur, metallic brown/charcoal color, estimated model year 1981 +/-1 year: 1.M 9914
(The number is wrapped around the seat cluster, with 1 [raised dot] M on one side and 9914 on the other.)

I am wild-guessing, based on the 1960-64 Chicago Schwinn system, that the first digit of the S/N is the last digit of the production year and the letter denotes the month.

Does anyone else have any relevant data points or something more definitive? Does anyone have an old Bianchi catalogue which might pinpoint my Bianchi as a 1980, 1981, or 1982 model, based on either colour or original components (Modolo Speedy brakes, Campag. Gran Sport pedals, Ofmega CX crankset, Regina America freewheel, Campag. Record derailleurs and seatpost, etc.)?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Bianchi serial numbers posted by T-Mar on 8/13/2004 at 4:33:46 PM
John, I have have some Bianchi serial numbers back home, so I'll reply to you in a couple weeks after I get back. Right now I'm in Florida, awaiting the arrival of Charley! Looks like we picked a bad time to vacation in Florida!

I have noticed various Bianchi serial number formats over the years. Bianchi may have used differnt formats depending on the era, or the different formats may designate different factories or sub-contractors.

Regardless, when I get back, I will provide some Bianchi serial numbers from the early to mid 1980s.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Bianchi serial numbers posted by Gralyn on 8/13/2004 at 7:52:21 PM
I enjoyed cycling in FL. I rode my fixed gear Viscount. Sometimes though, the wind can be almost as bad as a hill. But, I bet with Charley down there now......you could be pedaling against some fierce winds!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Bianchi serial numbers posted by RobA on 8/16/2004 at 6:13:33 PM
I'll check my Bianchis tonight...I have three...an average quality one with SunTour BL components from about 1981, and two wrecks...one about 1985, (I forget which model at the moment), and the other a celeste-colored Cromor tubeset, 'Quattro', with a few components left on it ...from the late 1980s...cracked headtube...

AGE / VALUE:Need to sell 1938 Club bike posted by: Max M. on 8/13/2004 at 12:39:23 AM

1938 Raleigh Golden Arrow club bike 21" Ebay #2262234973



   Need to sell 1938 Club bike posted by John E on 8/15/2004 at 3:56:15 AM
I copied and searched that number and came up with a large-framed 1969 Raleigh 3-speed.

FOR SALE:Trek 1985 600 Mint! posted by: ben blair on 8/12/2004 at 11:21:11 PM
For sale: 1985 Trek 600 in mint condition. All of the components are original except the front wheel and tire. The front wheel was lost when it fell off of my car. Check out vintage-trek.com and look at the 1985 catalogue for pics. I can also send pics upon request. The saddle is a wsd design that the previous owner put on, so I tracked down a white vetta saddle that I will include to keep all of the parts original. The frame is steel and flawless. I am a professional bike mechanic and I will assure you that this bicycle is in perfect working order and is ready to ride. Asking $500 and I will package the bicycle at no extra cost. I hate to see this go, but I am getting married and we need the money (Like I said, I'm a mechanic). Any questions, feel free to call me at 920 723 9668 or email benblair00@hotmail.com.

AGE / VALUE:Test posted by: sam on 8/12/2004 at 3:33:01 PM
Testing the new photo opt.---sam

target=_blank> width=40 height=40 >

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Test posted by sam on 8/12/2004 at 3:36:01 PM
Too big?Second try.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Test posted by Oscar on 8/13/2004 at 2:54:40 AM
Nice brazing. Smooth like butter. Is that your English bike?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Test posted by sam on 8/13/2004 at 2:31:35 PM
Yes,it's a 1952 Claud Butler.It's fun to find all the secrets this frame has to give--found a second set of numbers on the BB in addition to the serial number(a code but for what?)found the Reynolds stamp and discovered the rear eyelets were brazed onto the dropouts.The pump pegs moved and the holes filled on the downtube where they originaly went.All of this done at the factory as the original paint/chrome was found to be on top of the mods.On the down side of stripping and restoring ,I also got the pleasure of finding out how much chrome plating cost!---sam

   BB numbers posted by John E on 8/13/2004 at 2:45:44 PM
According to a post in an earlier thread, that second set of numbers on the BB shell is related to frame geometry and the angles between the various BB shell lugs.

   RE:BB numbers posted by Chuck on 8/13/2004 at 4:36:16 PM
That was my post. That only referred to the Nervex bottom bracket in question and does not necessarily apply to this Claud Butler.

MISC:Weird Front Derailleur posted by: Bryant on 8/12/2004 at 11:02:29 AM
I know this isn't about VLW's, but I don't know who else to ask. Picked up an older Giant Cypress X for a customer of mine who wanted a small comfort bike. She checked it for fit yesterday, and said she would take it once I'm done. While I was tearing it apart, I noticed the front derailleur is not mounted on the seat tube, but is attached somehow to the bottom bracket. This is the first time I've seen one like this. Two questions, anything special I should know before I attempt to remove this? And is there any special reason they made it this way other than to be different, I mean could I replace it with a seat tube mounted derailleur?

   RE:MISC: Weird Front Derailleur posted by Ben on 8/12/2004 at 11:21:01 PM
I really do not like the design but it seems to work ok. Make sure the bottom bracket is properly installed and that you tighten the drive side first. It also has a "third eye" effect that prevents the chain from falling off the small chainring.

   RE:MISC:Weird Front Derailleur posted by Bryant on 8/13/2004 at 10:33:21 AM
Thanks Ben. It came off without a hitch. Still seems to be a lot of metal to do what a simple seat tube clamp can do.

   RE:MISC:Weird Front Derailleur posted by T-Mar on 8/13/2004 at 4:21:39 PM
In an effort to increase the bottom bracket rigidity on bicycles, manufacturers have been experimenting with different sizes and shapes of seat tubes. This obviously causes problems in attaching a front derailleur. A brazed on mount can solve this problem but poses it's own problems when using non-ferrous and/or very thin tubes. Rather than having to create a myriad of different mounts, it was prudent to develop a derailleur that mounted to a standard ISO bottom bracket. Multiple, seat tube, calmp type mounts would have been expensive to develop, more expensive for the LBS to stock all the variations and in the end, more expensive for the consumer. Currently, the trend on modern road bikes is to very thin tubes which has caused most manufacturers to revert to clamp mounts for front derailleurs. Fortunately, unlike ATBs, most road bikes still use one of two standard diameters and traditional clamp mounts are readily available for these.

   RE:MISC:Weird Front Derailleur posted by Bryant on 8/13/2004 at 5:07:04 PM
Okay, now that makes sense. Thanks T-Mar!!

MISC:Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by: JONathan on 8/12/2004 at 6:58:26 AM
What luck! A gut feeling told me to check a local thrift, tofay. Lo and behold...a pristine Peugeot 10 sp. had just arrived. I bought it without a twinge of guilt or remorse. This bike is practically off the 1979 showroom floor. It came with a full set of packs front and rear. Looks like a UO-8 variant. Lugged frame, "cadre Allege" tubes. The cranks are alloy Stronglite "TS", 53/36 chainrings. Virtually no wear on the teeth. The wheels are the 27x1 1/4" Wolber "Super Champion" rims on Maillard hubs (qr). Freewheel looks like Atom, 14-34 with a big step from 3 to 4 cog. Wheelbase is prodigious 43 1/2 in., axle to axle. Weinmann cp brakes, Peugeot branded. Rear derailer is Simplex alloy with supersized cage. Looks like a Shimano "crane". Dual pivot body. Front derailer is Simplex alloy version. Stem shifters are alloy sticks. Atax stem and steel bars. Sella leather seat with adjustment screw seat post. Lyotard pedals are short spindle type. The interesting feature is the huge clearance between the rear tire and seat-tube and front tire and doen-tube; 2 3/4 and 1 3/4 inches respectively. Very relaxed geometry. I am a sucker for these long distance cruisers from the past. They ride like no modern bike, just loping along in decadent comfort, I almost feel ashamed. The price was steep at $60, but with the rack, packs and Zefal pump figured in, the price seems more like a deal. The leather Sella seat is in excellent condition. I feel lucky, again. Why are bikes like this a thing of the past? They brought the balloon cruisers back in modern form. Why not the VLW Peugeots? This particular bike has double eyes on the fork dropouts for fenders and rack mount, but only single eyes on the rear for rack and fender shared attachment. Serial number is on left, rear dropout. The derailer is tab mounted (no integral hanger). Half-chromed forks only. Rear stays are all paint. Raised, plastic headbadge is riveted to head-tube. Does this indicate a "UO" model or some other series?
BTW, these bikes have a unique ride quality. Brisk cruising is not a problem, either.

   Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by John E on 8/12/2004 at 2:07:39 PM
Nice find, JONathan. It is either a late UE-8 (Euro/touring version of the UO-8) or a descendent thereof. That vast gear range (28.6 to 102 gear-inches) would make Frank Berto proud, but the steps between ratios are too big for my tastes. (The range on my mountain bike is a comparable 24 to 96, but I need all 19 non-crossed combinations to cover it properly.)

I, too, appreciate the pleasures of older French road bikes. The two UO-8s I have owned, when upgraded with alloy cranks and rims, have ridden as well as many costlier bikes. Since UO-8 steering response is a bit too slow for my tastes, I do like the shorter-rake Japanese fork I put on my current UO-8, although I am sure the CPSP police would probably impound my bike for "dangerous" toe-to-tyre overlap. Riding an old long-wheelbased road classic is definitely a more relaxed experience than riding my noticeably twitchier 1981 Bianchi, which demands constant attention from the rider.

   RE:Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/12/2004 at 6:17:36 PM
I still get pangs of nostalgia for my Peugeot UE-8 bought new in 1974 at Tow Path Cycles in Washington DC for $129. That was a deal even then and while I felt 'orrible betraying my lifelong (well I was only 16 at the time) loyalty to Raleigh, you just couldn't get more bicycle for less money than a Peugeot back then. I had just returned from France on my first overseas trip and I loved how the Soubitez generator lighting set that came stock with the UE-8 even had the French style amber-coloured headlamp bulb! It was all just tres Francais. Lovely ride. Shame she was stolen in '77, I'd probably still have her now. Washington was a real Peugeot haven in those days... at GW Univ the bike racks were filled with Peugeots, Gitanes and all those "off brand" lookalikes that flooded the market during the bike boom. You still far more Peugeots of that era on the road today than most of their contemporaries, especially the ladies' mixte frame UE-8s and UO-8s.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:MISC:Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by RobA on 8/12/2004 at 7:25:43 PM
Nice find, JONathan

I, too, am a sucker for those old Peugeots...yet I hardly ever seem to ride them!!! Not enough time I guess...my current regular riders are my circa 1974 Gitane TdF...for commuting, and my late 80s Columbus SLX, Campy equipped Cramerotti for casual neighborhood rides...I have it set up now with Look pedals and I have myself decked out with SIDI 'Shadow' road bike shoes...lots of fun...:)

Back to the Peugeots, I must have more than a dozen of them,UO-8,UE-8, UE-18, and a Cdn UO-14, mostly in good or reasonable shape...one that unfortunately has bent top and down tubes (evidently, a front-end incident)....I'm always surpised at just how heavy these bikes are when I move one of them... 28 to 30 lb???

This year during the spring clean-up, among others I picked up a couple of nice white ones...UE-8, slighly small frame, and a UO-8 just my size. They both need a bit of work, the UE-8 has some rust issues on the chrome components and the UO-8 needs a new front wheel. I want to get these two fixed up...the white frames look pretty nice...but I dread having to re-grease another cotter crank BB....:)

   Peugeot posted by John E on 8/12/2004 at 8:06:31 PM
A stock bike boom UO-8 weighed about 28lb, at a time when most high-end racing bikes weighed 10kg/22lb and most other basic 10-speeds weighed 30-40lb. With aluminum cranks, pedals, and rims and 27x1" tyres, I got my first UO-8 down to about 25lb, which is only a kilo more than my PKN-10, which has a db 531 main triangle.

Interestingly, the frame weights of my 1971 American Eagle Semi-Pro (db Ishiwata CrMo main triangle) and my 1973 UO-8 (plain carbon steel) were about equal. The Nishiki had noticeably quicker steering because of its shorter fork rake, but a somewhat mushier feel through the bottom bracket. The Peugeot felt more resilient, i.e., more like an expensive frame.

   RE:Peugeot posted by P.C Kohler on 8/12/2004 at 9:40:27 PM
I always thought Peugeots and other French machines had a weight advantage over their competition. Surely the PX-10e did... the specs list a weight of about 21 lbs. which is remarkable for then and not absurd even now. Those delrin Simplex components saved a lot of weight and despite what so many feel, I still maintain the top end Simplex derailleurs shift better than anything Campagnolo made. Granted the cheaper ones were not the best but then again neither were the low-end Huret ones.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:Peugeot posted by JONathan on 8/13/2004 at 9:20:32 AM
Very informative, indeed! This whole idea of frame weight has me perplexed. As John E. described, the lightening of the bike can be significant, but I especially like the idea of lightening the parts that move relative to the frame...assuming it as being somewhat stationary. If I come on board at 220# and the bike weighs 20# or 30#; so what!
Now, if the wheels are alloy; cranks are alloy; tires are thin-walls; the bearings are high spec; and I do not wear steel-toed boots, then THAT makes a huge difference in propulsion efficiency. Especially true of climbs. The best climber for me is a steel, plain gauge Bottechia tourer with cottered cranks. The frame is very still and my weight plus the high pedal pressure is best served by more frame rigidity. I'm not claiming that climbing is easy, but the less flex, the better. A light rider would find a lighter more flexible frame more efficient, IMHO. To knock 8-10# off the rotating masses is going to be very significant. Knocking the same off the frame I think is not a big deal. What do I know? I have another UE-8 that has cottered cranks, steel rims and gumwall tires. The UE-8 (recent) has alloy equivalents. Man, what a huge difference in performance there is head-to-head. The cool thing about the latter, is that I cruise up to speed and pass all the new bikes...well, I do not count the pros. I'm talking amateur, here. Pretty amazing for $60 and a little grease in the right places. Rob, the cottered cranks are a big pain, I agree. I have found that the cranks line up better with alternate pin placement. I went 75 miles with cottered cranks once and that was enough of a lesson for this putzer. Swap out for Sugino S-5-S cotterless and off you go without lookin back. These regualr frame Peugeots look like stallions when they get cleaned up. Not that mixtes are not great rides. I run a mixte all the time, but they do not look bold like the "8"'s.
Thanks for the inputs.


   RE:MISC:Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by T-Mar on 8/13/2004 at 5:00:32 PM
JONathan, sounds like you have the model just above the UO9. If I remember correctly, the UO9 was bassically a UO8 with cotterless crankset. The next model up featured more aluminum componentry. Both the UO9 and the next model up came out in the late 1970s, so they fit your timeframe.

Unfortunately, I'm vacationing in Florida right now and don't have acess to my reference material, so hopefully my memory is correct. I believe I've posted on these models before, so a search may turn up something. I'll try to remember to doublecheck on the models when I get home and confirm the model with you.

BTW, I concur with PC's assessment of the better Simplex derailleurs and vintage French bicycles in general. However, for me, the prime example of their empahsis on low weight was their preference for smaller diameter frame tubes, which also contributes to the distinctive ride quality.

   RE:RE:MISC:Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by JONathan on 8/14/2004 at 12:04:58 AM
Thanks, T-Mar! I can e-mail a picture(s) if you want a close look. Have a great time...BTW, Andrew in 1992 was the last big one. I would hunker down for a while.
Good luck.

   Peugeot posted by John E on 8/15/2004 at 4:03:36 AM
I know this is sacrilege to many, but I think there is nothing like a vintage Peugeot with a SunTour rear derailleur, a good trapeze (as opposed to push-rod) front derailleur (Shimano, SunTour, Campag, or late Simplex), and SunTour or Campag. shift levers. I really enjoy both of my East-meets-West Frankenbikes.

   Peugot Help posted by Kurt on 8/31/2004 at 5:55:02 PM
I need help figuring out what model and year my Peugeot bike is. It is some where in the 70's and it's a 10 speed. Does anyone know any good web sites that will help me identify it.

   RE:RE:MISC:Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by jason on 9/2/2004 at 3:34:49 PM
Well i recently buaght a peugeot road bike it is in perfect shape everything is good on it i buaght it for 10 dollars and i have seen the same one on ebay for 150 to 200 dollars i was wondering if i should keep it or sell it and make a grate profit or what u thought of it and mabet a little imformatin on it it says isrean on it to i dont know what that means but hope to hear from u thankyou

   Gitane Grand Sport de luxe posted by Bruce Skogen on 9/6/2004 at 5:19:56 PM
I recently found the frame of a Gitane Grand Sport de luxe in a weedy lot. Wheels missing, chain broken but otherwise intact. Orange frame with blue emblem with "GITANE" in big letters on center post. Would like to determine how old it is and whether it's worth putting it back on the road.

   RE:RE:MISC:���Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by ezra on 9/7/2004 at 11:39:40 PM
I enjoyed finding this thread. I just aquired a UO8, late sixties. I am riding it 'as purchased', although it needs some service. I paid $20 for it. Since it sat outside, the saddle is in horrible shape.
I grew up in Belgium. My first few bikes I bought at Lucien Buyse's shop, another Tour winner turned bike shop owner.
A comment on weight: Eddy Merckx (a bunkmate with my brother in the army), became the racer he is because he deliverd bread for his father's bakery in Brussels. Brussels has it's share of hills and driveing the heavy delivery bike sure put mussel on him. The extra effort put in riding with a bit more weight, not to mention the high friction coeffiient of inferior parts or bad adjustment, will pay of with a better shape for you and a real treat when swiching to a 'pro' bike.

   RE:MISC:Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by Maurice on 9/27/2006 at 4:42:40 PM
I have a Peugeot Cadre Allege - Blue in color has the checkered flag wrapped around the down tube in 2 places - Suntour VX derailers front and rear with gear changers on gooseneck and end of handle bar (handle bar is alloy as well as neck) Weinmann brakes - SR alloy cranks - steel wheels - the bike rides like a Cadillac (I own a 1990 Sedan de Ville so I should know) - I have had a Giant Mountain bike as my last bike before it was stolen - in the old days (I'm 43) I had a Bianchi road bike that I rode in some races (it was Celeste in color when that was all they were making them) I bought the bike at an thift store for $20 (they wanted $50) I was in the market for a new commuter and I could not get a better shifting, riding bike for any amount of money today - I am happy I came along on this deal!

   RE:MISC: Peugeot '79 touring bike posted by Joel on 10/14/2006 at 5:22:50 PM
I am not exactly sure what model I have. I recently purchased a Canadian made Peugeot bike in a garage sale for 10 dollars. The rust on the Rigida rims were a bit of an eyesore. The frame was white so the grime was obvious even at a glance. I was however told that the bike was stored inside a garage. And by the looks of it she was right. The mechanicals were alright except for the Simplex front derailleur-it had a resin bracket that had broken already. Like all of you who have spotted bikes like this...you just know that it is a diamond in the rough. With a little WD 40 and a scouring pad, the ugly duckling was after all a swan. I used some Turtlewax rubbing compound and wiped off the grime and superficial scratches to a shine. I have several bikes in my arsenal but by far this is the best bike I have ever had. The long wheel base just gives you the right suspension needed to take bumps on the road. It is a solid cruising bike. It sports Normandy Hubs, Weinmann brakes, Simplex front and rear derailleurs, a Peugeot branded cotterless crank (I'm inclined to believe that it is a Stronglite), Lyotard pedals, and as mentioned earlier, 27 inch Rigida rims. The frame has a 103 Carbolite sticker on it and "Super Sport" on the top tube. The brakes on the bike indicate that it was manufactured in 1979. I've done some research but I'm hoping to get a second opinion from all of you. By all indications, it seems like a Canadian made Peugeot UO9. The bike is quite pristine. The minor scratches were mainly attributed to storage rather than mishaps on the road. The grease in the axles may have dessicated and lost their lubricating properties. So I did an overhaul of the BB, axles, and head parts. Amazingly the bike was well maintained. In fact, the last overhaul was done in 1981-the owner placed a tag in the handle bar specifically stating where and when it was done. To all of who have had the pride of owning one-Cheers

AGE / VALUE:   Bike date posted by: Serbaside on 8/12/2004 at 1:43:41 AM
I'm trying to identify a bike I have, the bottom bracket reads:

theres a "5" on the left rear axle hanger
on the fork theres:

If any one could help determine what type of bike it is or the date is it would be a great help.
Other compents on the bike (Suntour front derailleur - July 1975), (Shimano 333 rear hub - 1974) it has been repainted and all the decals + oval name badge is gone.
It has Weinmmann brakes and rims, GB stem and bars.
The pieces seem to have been replace sometime down the line.
Right now I'm thinking it is a Columbia, could anyone give me some links about Columbia infomation.


VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Sat. Night/Sun. Morn posted by: Brian on 8/11/2004 at 11:17:02 PM
Yes, I'm an exile from Roll Britannia. Now, let's see who's really good on this board: What model bike did Albert Finney ride in, "Saturday Night, Sunday Morning"?

ps. hello Chef Edward from BC - have u got my emails?

AGE / VALUE:English bikes posted by: sam on 8/11/2004 at 1:39:10 AM
While I still miss a certain English bike site that was heavy into club bikes!!,I still enjoy spotting a great frame or part on ebay--http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=72573&item=3693114661
All the usual -no relation etc...do check out his other stuff--now if only shipping weren't so high---sam

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:suntour symmetric shifter...HELP! posted by: Ben on 8/11/2004 at 12:48:49 AM
Made the mistake of disassembling a suntour symmetric downtube clamp-on shifter while doing a scrap-to-glory restoration of an early-mid 1980's Specialized Expedition touring bike. I thought I knew my limits and didn't think anything on this bike was tricky. I expected a few friction washers in the little housing, not a puzze of 20 +/- interlocking pieces...an engineering marvel...which I haven't a clue how to get back together. Anyone intimate with these? Anyone have a schematic? Anyone have another one? I need help! (can send a photo to the curious) Thanks much!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:suntour symmetric shifter...HELP! posted by Bryant on 8/11/2004 at 10:52:05 AM
Never took one apart so I can't help you there. I do have a spare that is missing the mounting bracket in case you can't get yours back together. Email me if you need it.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:suntour symmetric shifter...HELP! posted by RobA on 8/12/2004 at 12:57:33 AM
I've got a few of those, too...seems I find them every once in a while...Thanks for the heads-up...I was thinking about taking one apart...right lever seems a bit loose...but I think I'll give it a pass now...

One thought I had was to contact www.yellowjersey.org to see if they have a SunTour tech paper from that era that they could send you a copy of... I checked their site, but there was nothing specific posted, so you would have to e-mail them.

Yes...some of these components are, indeed, engineering marvels...and we tend to take them for granted now. I sometimes think of all those mechanical engineers huddled over their work benches...testing, testing, testing....1,000's and 1,000's of shifts to perfect that derailleur. Of course that was then...now they use computer simulations... And, I understand Mavic, and I guess Shimano, too, are working on electronic, automatic derailleurs... Gee, a short circuit and I guess you're stuck in high gear for "x" miles till you get home... :)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:suntour symmetric shifter...HELP! posted by RobA on 8/12/2004 at 1:46:19 AM
I also wanted to add that I think they are pretty nice shifters...one of my regular commuter bikes has them (though I haven't used the bike since early July) ...I'm not sure of the exact time frame for them, all the ones I have look much the same, though one has a black coating...I guess that was an option (I don't think it was just painted, but I haven't looked that closely)... They seem to have been available just during the early 80s...the latest one I have is associated with a 1983 Kamamura product (aka Nishiki, or north of the border, Nishiki and Norco), I haven't seen them on anything else, but I guess they would have gone where ever SunTour went...

As someone said a few months ago, they nicely solved a problem that wasn't that much of problem... I don't finding "trimming" the front der. that much of nuisance either... But they have nice smooth operation...I like them and also the SunTour 'Power Shifters'...

   front derailleur trim posted by John E on 8/12/2004 at 2:12:53 PM
The only time I have had problems with front derailleur trimming is when I have ridden bikes with indexed, nontrimmable front shifters, such as RapidFire. Unless it can be engineered for automatic self-trimming, a bit of a trick with today's integrated brake/shift controls, I shall continue to avoid front derailleur indexing.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:suntour symmetric shifter...HELP! posted by schwinnderella on 8/12/2004 at 3:39:41 PM
I have the top mount suntour symmetric shifters NOS in the box,complete with inner and outer cables and mounting band.I will try to post a picture, otherwise email for a picture.Price is $17.00 which includes shipping.


VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Another Schwinn Traveler posted by: Gralyn on 8/9/2004 at 1:30:41 PM
I spotted another Schwinn Traveler Friday....at one of the thrift stores that had been a good source for lightweights for a little while....but then it dried up......so, Friday - I just thought I would stop by......I spot this black Traveler.....'86 model. It's a bit pricy, though....as compared to how they had their bikes prices a month ago....but with the slim pickins' here lately - I went ahead and got it. They also had a ladies' World Sport.....for the same price.

I had to true up the rear wheel, and pump up the tires....replace the seat binder bolt, and put a different saddle on it.....it rides pretty good. I will re-build it, clean and polish, etc......give it the usual treatment.

It's one of those USA Travelers......otherwise, I wouldn't have picked it up. 21" frame

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Another Schwinn Traveler posted by Richie on 8/10/2004 at 2:19:54 AM
Hi, Gralyn. I found an 89 Traveler at a local thrift recently. It has True Temper 4130 frame tubes and Shimano Exage brakes and drivetrain. It's my newest bike, and the first bike I've ever owned with index shifting (6 speed SIS) and aero brake levers. 23 inch c-t with a 39 inch wheelbase. An agile bike, it corners well at speed, and the brakes are maybe the best sidepulls I've ever used. Certainly better than the old Campi Record sidepulls I'm used to. Hope you enjoy your Traveler as much as I do mine. Love those US Schwinns. Cheers, Richie

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Another Schwinn Traveler posted by Gralyn on 8/10/2004 at 11:59:48 AM
I have another '86 Traveler.....a little taller (23")....in mint green. I has hooded brake levers, down-tube shifters, orignally had white padded vinyl bar tape (black brake hoods), black San Marco saddle. Although it's an '86 model too......the one I recently picked up has stem shifters, brake levers with safety levers, foam rubber grip instead of bar tape. It seems it's not quite the caliper of my other Traveler. Honestly, I'm not sure about the drop-outs. On my green Traveler....it has forged dropouts with der. hanger.....I'll have to check and see what this one has.

I will re-build it.....convert to down-tube shifters, get rid of the safety levers, get rid of the foam rubber grip, etc.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Another Schwinn Traveler posted by JONathan on 8/12/2004 at 8:22:07 AM
My '79/'80? "trav" has SunTour Ar derailers. Same brake setup as you descibed. Very short wheelbase by VLW standards is an interesting feature on mine. It is about 40 1/2 inches. "Traveler" has experienced a lot of morphotyping, IMHO. Mine is a very stable commuter mount, yet the speed factor is there. Performance is superb in an all-around evaluation. A bit sporty for some riders in the commuter mode, I think, based on its geometry. When were Schwinn lightweights last built in the USA? Mine is Taiwan-built...not Giant, maybe Merida. Cro-moly plain gauge tubes on a 25 incher is OK. The lug joinery is superb. The "Travelers" will be around for a log time.
I see them on the road, with that weathered paint and well lubed chains. Good ones to fix up.
Just my 2, of course I am biased toward the cro-mo "traveler", Tough to beat for everyday.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Another Schwinn Traveler posted by richie on 8/14/2004 at 7:05:54 AM
Good question, JONathan: "When were Schwinn lightweights last built in the USA?" (Not including Waterford Paramounts, of Course.) My Traveler was built in August of 1989. It reads "Made in USA" on the the True Temper sticker on the seat tube, and the headbadge reads "Schwinn Chicago", but my guess is it's a Greenville bike. Cheers, Richie

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:ATOM HUBS posted by: JOHNNY on 8/9/2004 at 2:40:37 AM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:ATOM HUBS posted by David on 8/9/2004 at 12:43:32 PM
My mid-70s US Raleigh catalog shows Normandy hubs on GP, Super Course, Gran Sport, and Competition models (and Atom pedals on top three of those). I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Atom hubs are original to your bike; lots of substitutions due to availability were made.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:ATOM HUBS posted by johnny on 8/10/2004 at 4:09:48 AM
thanks david

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:ATOM HUBS posted by JB on 8/11/2004 at 1:01:48 AM
David, my 73 Peugeot has the Atom front and back hubs..rolls very nice..I bet they were original to several of the 70's imports...worth keeping

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:ATOM HUBS posted by T-Mar on 8/11/2004 at 2:46:20 PM
Considering that this is a 1973 model, the odds are good that the wheels are original. As David suggests, substitutions were common during this period. Given that Normandy hubs are original specification, Atom hubs would be the most likely substition, as their were both made by Maillard. Atom hubs were the small flange model, while Normandy were the large flange version.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:The Bottecchia's screaming brakes! posted by: Gralyn on 8/8/2004 at 12:54:57 AM
I have previously posted about my Bottecchia's "Screaming" brakes. I had traded out the brake pads for a set of those red-colored ones...I think maybe they have iron oxide in them or something. That was weeks ago.....I haven't ridden it since I replaced the brakes....I've been riding some of my other bikes....Well, today I took it out. It doesn't "Scream" anymore......but it does squeak. Now the hight pitched squeak is getting on my nerves. I may try another type of brake pad - and see if that works. If it doesn't.....then when I go for a long ride through the countryside.....I'll leave it as is.....but if I'm going to take a ride through town.....I will pop a different wheel set on it....with aluminum rims.

Well, at least I did make an improvement over that terrible "Scream"!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:The Bottecchia's screaming brakes! posted by Don on 8/8/2004 at 5:30:53 AM
Gralyn: I had the same problem on a set of Campy Victory rims. The KoolStop brake pads dropped the scream down to a squeak that seems to be going away as the pads wear in.
Ride it a bit more & you may see the same improvement.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: The Bottecchia's screaming brakes! posted by Stacey on 8/8/2004 at 11:41:31 AM
A liberal application of Moly grease to the brake pads will eliminate the squeak... of course it will eliminate any shred of braking power you might have, but it won't squeek :-)

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:The Bottecchia's screaming brakes! posted by Gralyn on 8/8/2004 at 2:01:27 PM
Yes, plan B - is the Koolstop brake pads

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:The Bottecchia's screaming brakes! posted by JB on 8/8/2004 at 7:48:16 PM
I rode my old Bottecchia DeLuxe on a 50 miler last week..lots of hills..the Balilla brakes have the red pads ...some squeeling..but not as bad as the Mafacs on my old French rides...I think many of the vintage bike boom rides share that trait...but hey...they roll fast..(one of our fellow riders on a new brand truely struggled to stay with the Bott and Fuji in the group

   The Bottecchia's screaming brakes! posted by John E on 8/9/2004 at 12:36:22 AM
I presume you have tried toeing the pads inward and have checked for foreign material embedded in one or more pads. You may also want to check your rims for various types of residue; some people have suggested rim cleaning and pad sanding to quiet noisy brakes. Of course, noisy brakes can also come in handy, as a surrogate bell or horn!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:The Bottecchia's screaming brakes! posted by RobA on 8/10/2004 at 12:56:57 AM
Yes!!...slightly noisy brakes can be useful...:) Bells and horns seem a little too personal, like you're telling people to get out of your way... I only use the bell if I have a sudden event...otherwise I usually slow down until people see me. Squeaky brakes can subtlely speed up that process.

The back brakes, which are used to supplement the fronts in a quick stop, on my Gitane TdF (MAFAC Competition)have started some minor squeaking, but I pretty sure it'll only be a 'toe-in' issue... but for now I'm leaving them as is...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:The Bottecchia's screaming brakes! posted by JONathan on 8/10/2004 at 5:37:00 AM
Brake squeal is not good, OMHO. As a musical instrument, maybe. I seem to have little trouble with high quality rims with recessed eyes for the soke ends. The dynamics of hoop rotation is fairly complex. You have the usual contact friction and the more subtle harmonic motion of the rim=spoke-hub-axle-bearing surface interaction. Coupled with caliper parameters. I would make sure the wheels run true and that the spoke tension is correct all the way around. Like a violin tuning, you can be off an octave and snap strings, just like I have snapped spokes with unlnowingly torquing the sokes on one side and popping loose the other (180). My braking noise problems diminish to near zero since I went to strong alloy rims and keeping them true. This is all in conjunction with all the brake specific maintenance. My hypothesis, only, but it could hurt little to true things for a better ride. My worst crash was from brake harmonics! Pretty scary stuff o this camper. A rather abrupt learning experience...but at leat I learned.
Just my two cents,
Note: This sounds dumb, but I just change out wheels (or any part) that cannot get it right. It does little to solve the problem, but it resolves it.

AGE / VALUE:Raieigh Gran Sport posted by: Diane on 8/7/2004 at 9:14:13 PM
I found a Raleigh Gran Sport in a used bike store. It has a Brooks Swallow seat. They were asking $200 for it. I was wondering just what a bike like that is worth. It was in VG condition. I'd appreciate any info on the Raleigh Gran Sport.

   Raieigh Gran Sport posted by John E on 8/7/2004 at 11:25:11 PM
The value depends on the age, since the Gran Sport underwent at least one major upgrade in the early 1970s.

If it is in good condition, the Swallow saddle alone is worth quite a bit (see eBay). Here is the Retro Raleighs page on the Gran Sport, which originally came with (surprise!) Campag. Gran Sport derailleurs: http://retroraleighs.com/gran-sport.html

The Gran Sport derailleurs work decently only on narrow-range gears, such as the original 49-46 / 14-16-18-21-24, a classic combination with suffers only from its relatively stiff low gear. Make sure the front derailleur has been properly maintained or lightly used, because the body tends to erode around the pushrod. When I bought my Capo, its Gran Sport front mech had gotten so sloppy that I had to replace it.

All of the frame tubing on the early 1960s Gran Sport is plain gauge carbon steel, probably comparable to a Peugeot UO-8. It's a nice enough ride, but for $200 I would hold out for something with at least a d.b. Reynolds 531 or Columbus main triangle. The slack (by today's standards) 72 degree frame angles and long wheelbase will make it a very comfortable bike for long distances, but do not expect it to be a great sprinter or climber.

By the 1970s, the Gran Sport frame had evolved considerably, with a nice full Reynolds 531 frameset and a nice Stronglight crankset. If this is the model you are looking at, it will be a much better rider, though arguably less collectible, than a 1962 model. I still think the price is a bit steep, but if it has been fully serviced, with all bearings repacked, etc., it is not a bad deal.

   RE:Raieigh Gran Sport posted by JONathan on 8/9/2004 at 6:39:55 AM
I trust that you have test ridden the bike. Having completed a test run, and the results are favorable to your liking, I would definitely get the bike...if the shop will stand by the bike's adjustments in all categories. If all that happened was they dusted it off and pumped air in the tires, then I would stay clear. I think $200 is a good price. As John E. stated; "UO-8" is about what you get, but that is good. These vintage lightweights can really move out when set up with decent alloy wheels and cranks (also alloy) with 52T mainring. An equivalent ride in a new bike would be upwards of $500, IMHO. You can get some good high pressure tires on the hooked bead rims (make sure they are hooked bead rims) and off you go. On top of that, you have a somewhat collectable ride that is only going to get more valuable as you continue riding on bike with personality. Personally, $200 would be a lot for me to consider, but I fix up 25 buck bikes with about $100 (retail price) of parts and that is not counting the careful labor of several hours of mechaincal work. So, $200 ain't bad, for a restored ride. Bottom line is give it a ride. These VLW's are like horses. Each has its own disnct personality. That is what I like about them. Good luck. Post up what comes about. Interesting to know how it goes.

   RE:RE:Raieigh Gran Sport posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/9/2004 at 4:27:50 PM
The original Gran Sport as here, Sprite, Blue Streak, Royale et. al. were all part of the weird Raleigh period c. 1962-66 where they turned out absolutely gorgeous "lightweight" machines with delicious period components that were, sadly and shortsightedly, made of plain 'ol 2030 steel instead of Reynolds 531. Madness! No one has been able to explain why this was done as Raleigh's previous lightweights (Lentons, Clubmans etc.) were all Reynolds and, of course, post-1966 they went big time into true lightweights with the Carlton takeover.

$200 is a fair price, the Brooks swallows go for at least half that on eBay. And the other components are top-notch.

Rims: I don't have my catalogue at hand showing this model but it should have Weinmann alloy or Dunlop chromed steel. If the latter, they are without the bead. No worries if you buy 90 psi tyres (most of the low-end 27" tyres you find are 90 psi like the Chin Sengs) and NEVER inflate to over 100 psi. Make sure the tire and tube are perfectly set on the rim and just periodically inspect. I had a blow-out on my RRA running on Conloy Asp rims with IRC Triathalon tyres because I stupidly 1) overinflated the tire and 2) didn't keep an eye on it. Happily this occured at slow speed with no damage or injury. Just be careful! But beadless rims are an essential British lightweight bike "thing" and to be cherished... and respected!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:Raieigh Gran Sport posted by JONathan on 8/12/2004 at 6:21:20 PM
Thanks, P.C.. I recently went through my spare wheels and spent a day cleaning up and lubing various 26 and 27 inch low pressure wheels. At first, the process seemed like a waste of good grease, but I figured it was a good way to hone my skills. After reading your post above, it was worth the effort. The steel rims with any rust inside were deemed unfit for bike use, so they were cut and straightened out for tomato/bean poles. Nothing goes to waste! If it was my ride or if it was a fix-up job for someone else, I would save the OEM wheels as restoration fare and use alloy hooked-bead. There is so much greater selection and the quality of ride can be immensely improved. Not to be sounding like a tire snob, but I cannot go back to riding on those heavy, unrepsonsive nylon rubber gumwalls. That's about all I can find to run on the straight bead clinchers.
OTOH, for pure restoration, the showrrom needs to have those OEM rims!
Just a couple more,
JONathaBTW, I recently came onto a set of butyl rubber Dunlops that I am guarding like a bulldog a hambone!