VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh "competition" posted by: andym on 4/6/2005 at 1:20:04 PM
Picked up a Raleigh "competition" at a thrift store the other day. The serial # on the frame reads A8603,Reynolds 531 butted tubes,with "Carlton Race Proved,Worksop England" decal on the seat tube.T A crank arms and bottom bracket,Huret "jubilee" deraileurs and dropouts,all standard for this model I believe.What I found interesting about this frame is that the rear stays are not chromed.I don't know,is this unusual? Also,would this frame have been built in 1976? I paid $59.99 for this bike which is pretty steep for a thrift store find but I think I made out pretty good.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Raleigh posted by Warren on 4/6/2005 at 4:42:05 PM
You stole it...great deal. I'd pay $60 for the TA crankset. Quality control on 70's Raleighs varied so yours may be very well built and finished, or not.

I'm surprised about the chrome too. My 76 Super Course has chrome...what brand are the dropouts?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Raleigh posted by andym on 4/6/2005 at 6:14:56 PM
It has Huret drop-outs and yes this one seems very well built.Normandy competition hubs and Brook's narrow b-17 saddle...COOL!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh posted by T-Mar on 4/6/2005 at 10:32:23 PM
Wouldn't that serial number make it a 1978 model?

BTW, if anybody is interested, I have a rather large stock (approx. 20) of NOS TA Pro chainrings in various sizes.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh posted by andym on 4/7/2005 at 1:20:28 AM
Not quite sure what year it was built.I thought it might have been 1976 by info from the Retro Raleighs web site where it is stated that the third character of the s/n is the last digit of the year of production. Thats the only info I have.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Raleigh posted by TimW on 4/7/2005 at 3:26:22 AM
Hi. I have a Competition serial # WA200?251 (am I the only one who has troubles reading many serial #'s?). Maybe that means 1972?

It also has 531 db main tubes and 531 fork, and no chrome on the stays. It has unusual script everywhere - not Raleigh's usual blocky script (like is on my Professional), but much more like beautiful classical handwriting. The script and fancy pinstripes are fine gold and white on black paint. On the downtube is "Handbuilt by Raleigh Bicycles, Nottingham England".

It came with Suntour ARX derailleurs (replaced now with period Dura-Ace), Normandy Luxe Competition hubs, and cranks marked Raleigh (the only place with Raleigh's usual blocky script). I think this is just about my prettiest bike, maybe because it turned me on to vintage lightweights.

So, Andym, my Competition seems to be a different year, but is also without chromed stays. My question is, does anyone else have a Raleigh with fancy script?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Raleigh posted by TimW on 4/7/2005 at 3:30:11 AM
Hopefully, here's a picture of my Competition


   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Raleigh posted by T-Mar on 4/10/2005 at 12:35:08 AM
The logo sounds like 1972, but the components are circa 1982. If it has the semi-circular bridge on the seat stays that acts as the cable stop for rear centre-pull brake, then it is a 1972 model. If not, it is most likely 1982.

My 1972 Raleigh Super Course had the script logo and it was typical for that era.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Raleigh posted by marc on 4/12/2005 at 7:48:03 PM
I know I'm coming late to the discussion but I figured I'd drop my two cents in. The bike would appear to be a 1973. I have a raleigh pro with the same "A" serial number. I've heard of pro's and the record aces that were offered that year having such a serial number but never a competition. It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. If it was a 72 I believe it would have zeus components, if it was a 78 it would have campy nuovo gran sport, in between these periods fell the french equipped models which I think are the most derirable. anyway, you got a steal. I paid 120.00 for just a comp frame.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Suntour Barcon removal? posted by: d.c. wilson on 4/6/2005 at 3:45:36 AM
I'm trying to remove some Suntour Barcons from an old Japanese bike's handlebar. How do you do it? They seem stuck. When I unscrewed the screw through the toggle, it did not seem to loosen anything up. are you supposed to remove the toggle to get to a mechanism inside the barcon? I'm mystified. Never removed or inserted one before.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Suntour Barcon removal? posted by Bryant on 4/6/2005 at 11:02:45 AM
The screw you've been loosening is the one that holds the shifters in the bar mounts. When you remove the shifters, you will see an allen screw inside the mounts themselves. Loosen that and the mounts should come off.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Suntour Barcon removal? posted by andym on 4/6/2005 at 1:09:41 PM
I believe those threads are left-handed so be careful,lefty loosey,righty tighty does'nt apply.I've made that mistake...once.Those little allen screws will snap right off!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Suntour Barcon removal? posted by Warren on 4/6/2005 at 4:48:17 PM
Repeat...REVERSE THREAD!!!!!!

   Suntour Barcon removal? posted by John E on 4/7/2005 at 2:48:04 PM
Further confirmation from one who owns two pairs of SunTour ratchet barcons -- it is a conventional right-hand thread, but since the body of the shifter is threaded, you do indeed turn it CLOCKWISE TO LOOSEN/REMOVE the shifter and anticlockwise to secure/install it.

   RE:Suntour Barcon removal? posted by Warren on 4/9/2005 at 3:22:56 AM
Good point requires you to think it's reversed in order to remove it. It's not instinctual...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Suntour Barcon removal? posted by DC Wilson on 4/9/2005 at 3:48:00 AM
Thanks. The guys at this board are the best.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Ventoux posted by: RobA on 4/4/2005 at 11:19:56 PM
Checking back I see "John Mott" posted on 03/19 re: a Peugeot Ventoux... Well, I was out yesterday for the annual "spring clean-up" in a suburban community...lots of bikes, mostly MTBs and a number of old road bikes...but all the ones I saw were low-end...except one...a Peugeot Ventoux. I think I may have been lucky...I think the homeowner had just put it on the curb as I was driving up. The bike is missing the front wheel, and the seat and attachment hardware...the post is still there. It looks immediate guess was early 80s...a decal said 12 Vitesses/Speeds, but the freewheel had obviously been replaced...a 7-speed Falcon (made in Taiwan)...and so had the rear der....a nice looking, late 80s SunTour Edge...everything else looks original. Reynold 501 tubing, Sachs/Huret front der., Sachs shifters (looking similar to, but without the action of, the Simplex Retrofriction), Weinmann sidepulls, Wolber GTX rim (rear wheel), Michelin Hi-Comp. 700x23 tire, the hub (couldn't see a name) has a nice matte black finish, stem?, nice cushiony gray/black 'spotched' bar tape in excellent shape. It looks like an interesting bike and I couldn't pass it up...

My guess is the original rear der. was a 'Rival' or 'New Success', and the original freewheel, likely a 6-speed Maillard of some description... Anyone want to comment?

Also, the bike was clearly 'Made in France'...a prominent decal on the top tube says so... From what I understand. by the early 80s. most of the Peugeot sold in Canada were Canadian-made... What about the Ventoux... Wwas that sold in Canada or maybe the homeowner bought it in the US?...the community were I found it, is on the US fact for several miles the back fences of a number of the subdivisions are built right on the border...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Ventoux posted by T-Mar on 4/5/2005 at 2:22:35 AM
My guess would be more mid 1980s, say 1986, plus or minus a year. Reynolds 501 didn't come out until 1984 and Peugeot was still in the habit of using model numbers at that time. By the late late 1980s they had pretty much ditched the European derailleurs so that they had the marketing benefit of indexed shifting. Given the mid range 501 tubing, the most likely candidate for a rear derailleur would be the Rival. I would have presumed a Helicomatic 6 speed.

During this period, many Peugeot were still imported from France, even to Canada. Primarily, they were the models using the lugless, internal brazing, as the Canadian manufacturer was not approved for this process until 1988 (another reason for my date estimate).

I believe the model number for the Ventoux was PH501 and if I'm right about the era, the original price was around $350 US. Regardless, you can confirm the year via the serial number. The first digit indicates the year on 1980s Peugeots.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Ventoux posted by RobA on 4/5/2005 at 4:39:51 AM
Thanks Tom...very good... The serial # (which was surprisingly hard to read...full of paint) starts, "B6...", so that would mean 1986... The rear wheel must be a replacement as well... The rim is a nice Wolber GTX 700c, and the hub, a matte-black Sansin with a date code, FG (whatever that indicates?) What would the OEM wheel setup have been?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Ventoux posted by T-Mar on 4/6/2005 at 1:31:40 AM
Sorry, I don't have anything on the 1986 Ventoux, so I can't be postive. However, the other 1985 and 1986 mid-range models that I have info for, all used Maillard Helicomatic hubs, so that's a pretty safe bet. Rims used on these bicycles included Rigida 1320, Rigida Score and Mavic Module E. Cogs would proabably have been 13-24T.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Ventoux posted by Ian on 4/6/2005 at 11:11:00 PM
Info extracted from Peugeot 1986 Brochure:

PH 501
Peugeot's innovation shines through again with our internally brazed frame made of Reynolds 501 Chrome-Moly double butted tubing. This frame teamed with a Reynolds 501 fork and all European alloy components gives the Ventoux a remarkable weight of 22.8 lbs. and a ride that is truly worthy of the French tradition."

Frame: Reynolds 501 3 main tubes, internally brazed, forged rear drop-outs, double brazed-on water bottle fittings, chain rest, Delrin cable guide, BSA.

Fork: Reynolds 501 tubing chromed, BSA.

Headset: Peugeot, chromed.

Handlebar: CTA, alloy, bike ribbon.

Stem: CTA, alloy, aero.

Brakes: Weinmann 506, alloy, side-pull.

Chainwheel: Stronglight 200, 42 x 52.

Pedals: Maillard CX 550, aero.

Chain: Sedisport, black.

Freewheel: Heliocomatic, 6-speed, 13 x 15 x 17 x 19 x 21 x 24T, silver.

Hubs: Maillard, sealed hub, front and rear QR.

Rims: Rigida 1320, black heat treated, w/stainless steel spokes.

Tires: Michelin "Hi Lite Road," 700 x 23c

Derailleurs: Huret Rival, front and rear, hand finished.

Saddle: Mondialita, racing, white.

Seatpost: Alloy, micro-adjust.

Accessories: Spoke protector, chainstay protector, toe clips and leather toe straps, wide-angle reflectors.

Size: 50cm (19 1/2"), 54cm (21"), 57cm (23"), 60cm (24"), 62cm (25").

Color: Burgundy (BU), Jamaica Blue (BJ), Pink (RK)

Weight: 22.8 lbs.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Ventoux posted by RobA on 4/7/2005 at 6:21:53 PM
Thanks Ian

Mine has a Nervar crank 52t large ring...I haven't checked the small one..though it looks like 42t. The rear tire is Michelin Hi-Lite Supercomp...700x23; the rear QR is a modern-looking Simplex,(but I guess that doesn't mean much); the chain, which obviously would have been replaced, KMG; I thought the bike was black, but I guess if Jamaica Blue is a dark blue, that's probably what it is...; size would be 21", though I haven't measured it...; no pedals, but I would have replaced them anyway...I've just gotta have clip-ins...:)

MISC:   Interesting question on the "Customs" discussion area posted by: kim on 4/4/2005 at 1:05:25 PM
Someone has brought up an interesting question about chains and the use of a single or 3-speed rear wheel on a derailleur frame on the "Customs, Lowriders, HPV, Recumbent" discussion area.

Maybe some of you vintage lightweighters can shed some light?


   RE:MISC:   Interesting question on the posted by Al A. on 4/7/2005 at 6:13:11 PM
Thanks, Kim! Your kind intervention brought a lot of very useable information to my post. Thanks also to the Vintage Lightweights people for all your help.

AGE / VALUE:   Centurion Super Le Mans posted by: D.C. Wilson on 4/4/2005 at 3:00:37 AM
What level of bike was a ten speed Centurion Super Le Mans? Looks to date to 70s. Not sure if its road or touring bike geometry. Elegant stem says SR Forged on it. Ratcheting Suntour barcon shifters. Suntour front derailleur. Rear is some kind of replacement--an Exage of all things. Araya rims. Sunshine skewers (I've never heard of these). Haven't dug down through the grime to see hub brand. SR Apex cranks. No kick stand. Tubing sticker looks unpromising. It reads: Hi Tension tubing--main tubes and stays. Curly-que lugs. Seat stays narrow to a javelin point on top. Christophe clips on some above average pedals with a brand i cannot make out. UJB (universal Japanese bike) Diacompe braking with dreaded double levers. Orange paint. Chromed suspenders. Made in Japan sticker. Lots of rust. I collect English and French bikes and know little about other nationality bikes. Hypothetical: If it were in good condition, is anybody collecting Japanese bikes like Centurions these days?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Centurion Super Le Mans posted by Dick in FL on 4/4/2005 at 5:35:43 AM
A Centurion with "chrome suspenders"! Finally I cross trails with someone else with one of these. I just completed the restoration of a Centurion Sport DLX that my brother found at someone's curb. Family rule: "Anything with a CR-MO frame gets rescued." (The decal/sticker on the seat tube declares 'Tange tapered double-butted cr-mo tubing'). It's clear that this was originally a very respectable road bike. Sun Tour components, lined lugs, chrome forks, alloy wheels, QR front hub. After I reconditioned and repainted it, I converted it to an upright riding position with riser chromed handlebars and MB brake controls. It would take a true aficionado with a trained eye to distinguish it now from the teeming masses of hybrids at the trailhead bike rental. Mine does not have javelin point ends on the seat stays. Also, the rear brake cable runs fully-housed along the topside of the top tube through three brazed-on tunnels. (this arrangement is new to me!)

Regards and enjoy,
Dick in FL

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Centurion Super Le Mans posted by JONathan on 4/4/2005 at 8:25:55 AM
I had one just like it. Used it for touring on rough roads and jeep trails one summer. It was a great riding bike, before I got a MTB for such things. Better made than most bike-boom lightweights, IMHO. I have another that is just a frame for rebuilding. The Japanese Centurions were superb.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Centurion Super Le Mans posted by RobA on 4/5/2005 at 1:00:50 AM
I have a mid-70s Centurion Super pieces...wheels missing)...(1976, I think, based on the date codes on the ders.)...VGT rear der, Dia Compe centerpulls, half-chrome forks, (good tubing...I forget the type at the moment)....Orange, but lots of rust shop sticker from it probably was ridden around on the salty spring/winter roads. I was going to throw it out during my late winter 'downsizing', but I couldn't... it seemed too'll likely be a long term project...


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Centurion Super Le Mans posted by T-Mar on 4/5/2005 at 2:00:00 AM
Late 1970s. Upper entry level. Approximately $200 US original MSRL.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Centurion Super Le Mans posted by James Mahon on 4/5/2005 at 5:36:01 PM
referring back to the Sunshine skewers mentioned in the original post, they are made by a Japanese company SanShin. They came on many Japanese makes in the 70's and 80's. I have them on my 85 Fuji Del Rey. Sunshine is just the Anglo trade name for the company to make them more appealing to the North American market.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Centurion Super Le Mans posted by d.c. wilson on 4/6/2005 at 3:44:18 AM
double checked the seat tube sticker. it says "ultra light hi-tension forks, tubes and stays." does this mean its some high quality japanese tubing from that long ago time (the 70s), or just some plain metal tubing. i've got an early 80s centurion sport dlx with tange infinity double butted tubing. anyone have a clue?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Centurion Super Le Mans posted by RobA on 4/6/2005 at 4:37:41 AM
My tubing decal (the bike is from 1976) says "Guaranteed Built with Double Butted Top and Bottom Tubes" ...doesn't say the type, I would guess Tange, but I don't know that for sure. A big part of the reason I decided to hang on to this rather rusty (surface only as it turned out) bike was the feeling of lightness it had when I put it into and took it out of the trunk of my car. I was actually at the drop off point when I changed my mind and decided to keep this little charmer...:)

Has a nice slightly ornate chrome fork crown. The head tube and the seat tube lugs have really long tines... The rear brake cable is held on with three chrome cable clamps. HAlf-chromed forks, seat and chain stays...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Centurion Super Le Mans posted by T-Mar on 4/6/2005 at 10:22:03 PM
Ultra-light probably means that it has higher carbon content and is marginally thinner than their regular high tensile steel. It's more marketing talk than anyhting else.

Tange Infinity was a seamed, chromium-molybdendum tubeset. It was about equivalent in weight to their seamless No 2 tubing which was found in upper mid range bicycles. However, the seamed tubes were much less expensive to produce, allowing them to market a relatively light and strong tubest in the lower mid range market. Infinity was roughly equivalent to Reynolds 501 or Columbus Cromor.