VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1987 Univega posted by: Scott on 7/23/2005 at 5:46:22 AM
you know I never even thought about it but my "modern" road bike is a 1987 Univega Gran Rally. then I started reading some of the posts and realized that my "modern" bike was as old as some of what you guys are calling "vintage"! now Im confused (not too hard) what is vintage anyway??? is it a certain age, era, style???

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1987 Univega posted by JONathan on 7/23/2005 at 7:23:19 AM
My interpretation of "vintage" lightweights would be any lugged, steel framed bike with friction shifters. My definition expands to include fillet-brazed frames, as you have with the Schwinns, for example and also the electro-flash welded frames. The key element is steel. However, some early Aluminum jobs qualify on basis of gear numbers...for me, 7-sp. FW or cassette is the cut-off. Most definitions would place pre-bikeboom (before 1970) as "vintage" craft. My definition is broader, with the cut-off being around the design peak of the late 80's. Just my humble opinion, of course.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1987 Univega posted by Gralyn on 7/23/2005 at 7:43:55 PM
My definition is in-line with Jonathan's.

My most frequently ridden, ...and what I consider one of my most "modern" my '84 Bianchi.

This morning I rode my '83 Schwinn Super Sport....while decked out in a modern helmet and modern cycling attire.

I guess my most "modern" bike is my '92 Bridgestone RB-1. I have nothing newer than that.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: 1987 Univega posted by jackman on 7/24/2005 at 6:40:50 AM
I think JONathan hit the nail. My "modern" bike is an '89 Schwinn Traveler. It has 6-speed SIS and aero brake levers, but all my other road bikes are pre-1985 and have friction shifting and brake cables flying in the breeze. Not sure why, but none of my other bikes have ANY Shimano parts. My thing is lugged steel construction, although many fillet-brazed bikes qualify as vintage.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1987 Univega posted by scott on 7/24/2005 at 9:33:21 AM
well I guess it's settled then since my bike came with all 600 Shimano stuff and lugged steel frame and friction shift. I even have the original 600 clip pedals!! I have upgraded to STI shifting and moved from 6 speed rear to 7 and clipless pedals, and from my years of balloon tire bikes of course I kept all the removed parts. I guess I dont have anything that isn't vintage or older!!! c'est la vie!!! I'm going to feel different when I ride this bike next.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: 1987 Univega posted by Dick in FL on 7/25/2005 at 4:06:32 AM
Interesting observation about the sparse represention of Shimano on the old good bikes. I'm guessing that part of the answer lay in Sun Tour's lock on the patent for "slant parallelogram" derailleurs.

AGE / VALUE:   Tange / Hatta Vesta posted by: PJH on 7/22/2005 at 11:58:04 PM
I got a box of bike parts at a church sale that contained a Hatta Vesta headset and an all chrome road fork marked 'TANGE.9.D' The dropouts are marked 'Tange TP'. Who is Hatta Vesta? I know Tange made a wide variety of tubes, but what does 9.D mean? Either worth keeping? Any info is appreciated.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Astra - Mid 60s posted by: Dave S. on 7/22/2005 at 8:01:42 PM
I have an Astra Tour de France, probably mid-60s since I bought it new in 1967 when I got out of the service. Conventional 10-speed, Huret/Allvit drives. I have seen only one other Astra over the years but am told it was a Motobecane second-model. Mine became slightly less racy when I put touring bars on it, plus the fenders and book clamp from my boyhood Columbia. I moved the shifters from the down tube to the steering head using a Schwinn bracket and levers. It has 27-inch wheels which are fine with me because with those and a 23-inch frame it is a good fit for me. Just about everything on it has needed work in the last 30-odd years, derailleurs, spokes (starting to break from metal fatigue), bottom bracket bearing. The rat-trap pedals are starting to fall apart. It's a good ride though, and a faithful friend. Anyone know anything about Astras?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Astra - Mid 60s posted by jim t on 7/22/2005 at 8:34:59 PM
Astraa's were usually lower end motobecanes like a mirage, but on E-Bay I once sau an Astra that was 531 db with nerevex lugs!

AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by: jason on 7/22/2005 at 5:05:21 AM
wanted to get some opinions,good or bad on one of my hobbys
I love sturmy archer three speeds. I hate most three speed bikes, heavy, clunky, and heavy. I like roadbikes. I have a lot of not good, not bad frames with no purpose.
so I started to rebuild the hubs and lace then onto 27 inch rims, paint and polish up everything and end up with some realy nice town bikes that ride well enough that I have pulled some high mile days on them.
my question is, does anyone else do this? Should I go over to the english three speed section? where does this belong in the scheme of things?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by Ron on 7/22/2005 at 4:50:26 PM
I have not as yet rebuilt any 27 inch 3 speed bikes, but I do have a 3 speed that rides pretty good. It was made by Styer-Damiler in Austria and has a fairly stiff frame. The wheels are 26x1 3/8, so they could be lighter. I really like the 3 speed hub for ease of use, however, it would be nice to have a wider range for hills. Here in NW Ohio it works pretty well.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by Kurt K. on 7/22/2005 at 5:05:46 PM
I have a 1977 Raleigh Gran Sport frame that I intend to build around a Sturmey-Archer FW four speed.

It's been done before, yes, and not just by individuals. Back in the '30s and '40s, Sturmey multispeed hubs were the norm on English roadbikes.

P.S.: A great way to increase the versatility of the Sturmey AW 3 speed hub is to fit a derailer to the frame, and two offset sprockets to hub's driver. A 3 X 2 setup of sorts. I've yet to experiment whether standard 1/8" chain will go through one of the "Raleigh" rebadged Suntour derailers though.

Take care,


   S-A hubs posted by John E on 7/22/2005 at 5:45:22 PM
Sheldon Brown talks alot about lightweight road bikes with 3-speed, 4-speed, or 7-speed (Shimano) epicyclic hub transmissions. I second Kurt's vote for multicog derailleur-epicycle "hybrid" transmissions, but observe that the long axles and special cogsets are VERY hard to find. As I have reported in the past, my 40 / 14-16-18-20 gears on a standard wide-ratio Sturmey-Archer hub provided 12 nicely-spaced ratios from about 40 to 100 gear-inches. With the S-A trigger tucked behind the left brake handle, I could easily shift both gearsets simultaneously. If I did it again, I would consider a friction barcon for the derailleur. I used a 1/8" chain with a Campag. Gran Sport derailleur, but I doubt most modern cages would accommodate the wider chain without judiciously placed washers at the idler an jockey pulleys.

   RE:S-A hubs posted by Ken on 7/22/2005 at 6:44:51 PM
I laced a Shimano 3-speed hub with coaster brake into an alloy 559 size rim (mountain bike wheel size) and use it on a Flightliner-frame cruiser for around-town jaunts, where weight is basically no object. I found it more comfy with a smallish chainwheel (42?), and it has a groovy twist shifter...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by Steve on 7/22/2005 at 7:40:25 PM
The usual term for bikes like these is "club bike". I have four of them, put together via local and eBay scrounging. 1: Raleigh "Super Course" frame; Sturmey S5/1.
2: Raleigh "Super Course Mk. II frame; Sturmey FW; Campy cotterless steel crank with a 3-pin TA ring. (Favorite)
3. Fuji S12 frame, Sturmey AM hub. (Ecstasy, provided you don't have to climb any hills!)
4. Raleigh "Gran Sport" frame, Sturmey S5/2 hub. (Best frame and best hub; the usual daily commuter)
The only problem is coming up with the time to ride all of them . . .!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by jason on 7/22/2005 at 10:05:43 PM
Hey thanks for the feedback and info. I was thinking that I might be commiting some sort of redneck bike crime based on the reaction of the local carbon fiber powerbar set.
the bikes that I have done are a Lejune cafe, SA fw,nineteen pounds,feels like a track bike with brakes, a who knows Bianchi frame, three speed with coaster,What I did with this bike is put a chain tensioner that allows me to shift the front cogs, which I do with the feet instead of a derailer. this is a bombproof weekend touring bike, at twenty eight pounds loaded with gear for three days. a early eightys cyclepro with a three speed drum brake(that was a pain, what with the mixed spoke length)which is my get to town in the rain and never lock it as its a puke green with delicate rust patterns and house paint spatters(clearcoated).
I need to start putting that pile of shimano 333's into something. anybody think anything about these hubs? they seem to be everywere, mostly from free spirits that rusted off of them.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by Dick in FL on 7/23/2005 at 4:25:04 AM
Ironic that you should inquire about Shimano 333 hubs! I just posted my preference for them on the English forum. They engage almost immediately after coasting with negligigible crank rotation .... unlike my SA hubs. Also, the triggers are much crisper thanks probably to the ball bearing used in the detents. The new Nexus 3-speeds appear to be an update on these hubs.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by JONathan on 7/23/2005 at 7:51:14 AM
OK, here's my setup. Raleigh "LTD" with 28-700c hp tires on wolber alloy rims; SA/AW hub unit. This is one fast commuter. The best rims I have are Dunlop 26x1 1/4 "LA"'s . Run those on the wife's "sports". What a big improvement for her. Schwinn 26x 1 1/4 touring tires at 60 psi are quite comfortable on blacktop. If you can find those Dunlops, snap 'em up, but good luck finding a set. Last week I toured a day on my Raleigh record ace (the 2030, 1977 version) with a spoke snap occurring on the non-drive side, rear. Always keeping track of where the shops are on my route, I made a pit stop at a fairly upscale place to pick up a replacement, as this was an easy repair with the left-side. Well, I got a spoke for the 27" "gentleman" wheel, but it cost me $3. I needed a longer nipple to get the new spoke to work. 3 x 32 is $96 (no price break for putzers), so I only bought one spoke. This seemed rediculous and the wheel was running OK with the snapped spoke, but why risk ruining a hub or something, so I went for the single spoke. There went my hotdog money. So, gents (and ladies) my advice is keep all those steel, chromlux Rigidas for the spokes! Also, snap up those wonderful Araya hp alloy rims in 27" even if you have to buy the whole junker to get 'em. I can hardly bend those rims in a vice! As for reality checking, I have to say that most of my vintage Raleighs are getting 700c wheels, which work OK if you have longer reach center-pulls or short gaps. The SA onto aluminum rims is the way to go. My LTD-3 with 700's has a wide option for tires and the side-pulls make the grade as well. This is my most under-rated commuter. Flat out flies with a smaller rear cog. The Shimano "333" is very well made and durable as all get out; at least for me.
Funny thing how that huib got placed on a plethora of bottom rungers.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by Kurt K. on 7/23/2005 at 1:51:30 PM
>>>but observe that the long axles and special cogsets are VERY hard to find.

Not true. One of the LBS here has at least 15 NOS long Sturmey AW axles sitting in a drawer. You can also find tons of the long axle variants on '70s American light-roadster type bikes such as Columbia Tourists and AMF Roadmasters.

Also picked up an NOS S5 axle a few days ago - turned out to be the longest variant available - 160mm.

In the way of cogsets though, the only one I know of that can be attached direct to an SA hub is the Cyclo 3 X 3 converter. I simply use two sprockets from a coasterbrake hub.

The tough part is finding any sprocket over 19 tooth that has an offset to it, as both sprockets have to be offset, or there won't be enough chain clearance between the sprockets.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   got to do something with my time posted by Al A. on 7/23/2005 at 6:18:43 PM
Sounds great to me!
Also, this link or URL should take you to a similar question I posed a while ago:
There were a lot of good ideas for adapting parts, but you'd not have seen the post unless you were on the Custom/Recumbent/HPV forum...good stuff.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: got to do something with my time posted by wingnut on 7/31/2005 at 9:18:12 PM
how do you take the whole three-speed shifting device that sits in the middle of the wheel(e.g. spokes and all) and put it onto another size wheel? is there some special tool? does the new wheel, say a bigger size, have to have the same inner workings (i.e. grooved interior)? Reason: I have a three speed I found on the side of the road and I like the frame, and the three-speed shifter, but I dont like the wheels (quite rusty where the tube sits) and tire size. So I just want to switch wheels from an another bike, without haveing to purchase a whole new three-speed specific wheel that does not have rust.


AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Le Tour posted by: Rich Girvin on 7/20/2005 at 1:39:31 AM
I have been given a schwinn le tour. Head badge date code is 1193. My question is does the 3 mean 73, 83, or 93. The frame is butted steel. Color gold. Decals are small plain "Le Tour" on top tube, Larger plain Schwinn on down tube, seat tube decals are a round "Quality, Schwinn, Chigago" near the top and rectangular "4130 chrome-moly Main Tubes and Stays" at the bottom. Cranks are sugino 170, shifters and derailers are shimano altus. Front and rear brakes are center pull,marked schwinn but they look like diacompe. Handle bar marked "Sakae Custom". Stem is marked "Custom". Wheels are Araya 27 x 1 1/4 Aluminum. Both hubs marked "Schwinn Approved 83 made in France". Tires are marked "Schwinn HP Sports Touring", "To fit Schwinn S-6 or K-2 Rim", MAde in U.S.A. Any one want to hazard a guess on the date of mfg. Thanks for any input.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Le Tour posted by Gralyn on 7/20/2005 at 12:58:04 PM
It sounds like you have an '83 model. Based on the Chro-Mo frame, components, and hubs - I'd say an '83

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Le Tour posted by Rich Girvin on 7/21/2005 at 3:30:34 PM

Thanks for your opinion. I think you are correct. The 83 after the Schwinn Approved on the hubs could be a date code. Also, I found a stamped A683 under the bottom bracket.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Le Tour posted by Gralyn on 7/22/2005 at 1:41:53 AM
Also, if it has an alloy seat post - it would probably have an 82 or 83 stamped on it. Also, the stem - if you remove it - it probably has an 82 or 83 on it. Sometimes the components can pre-date the bike's assembly date - sometimes by a few years. But the main way to tell on your bike is the date code stamped on the head badge.