AGE / VALUE:Raleigh GS on ebay cheap posted by: David on 8/11/2005 at 3:53:34 PM
Looks too small for me. Fuzzy pictures, but the buy-it-now is $50 and it looks like the 531DB Gran Sport. Item no 6552443317

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Raleigh GS on ebay cheap posted by Kurt K. on 8/11/2005 at 4:15:31 PM
I saw it. Was very tempted (especially for the fact that it's in Orlando, I'd probably save on shipping) until I noticed the small frame size.

Been looking for another one of these for a while - I've got a 23" Grand Sport frame that I bought on C-list for $15, rather beat up though. Plan to repaint black/chrome with black Bluemmels. Rather sharp scheme if I do say so myself...


AGE / VALUE:Ross Serial Number Chart posted by: Matt on 8/11/2005 at 4:17:30 AM
Hey all,

First post here.

I recently restored/rebuilt a Ross Beach Commander cruiser. I have searched all over and can't find a serial number chart for Ross... The s/n on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell is I058910709. I'm looking for the yar it was made. And help would be very much appreciated.

Thank you all, Matt

MISC:Vintage tire sizes posted by: Bryant on 8/9/2005 at 11:10:19 AM
Have a question about tire sizes. I'm working on a 1952 Express Werke lightweight that has no sizing information on its wheels. The rims are Mayweg Alloy and seem to be 700, but are twice as wide as a regular 700c. I have put a 700x28 on the rear wheel and it fits but will blow off at any PSI over 60. The front has a 700X35 and seems happy (the 700X35 won't fit on the rear because of seat tube clearance) but I'll probably put a 700X28 on it also. Could these rims be 700B or some other size, and how could I find out? Also anyone know where I could get tires for them??

   RE:MISC:���Vintage tire sizes posted by marc on 8/9/2005 at 3:48:42 PM
are the rims hook beaded? if they're not then that's probably why it's blowing off.

   RE:RE:MISC:���Vintage tire sizes posted by Bryant on 8/9/2005 at 9:07:56 PM
Nope! No hook rim

   RE:MISC: Vintage tire sizes posted by Warren on 8/11/2005 at 5:53:52 PM
Continental makes a big 47 X 700c in the Top Touring models as well as a 32mm. But your problem is the frame clearance at the rear. If you want a rider, I'd build a different wheelset and save the originals.

Maybe these wheels aren't original to the a rule, frame angles just weren't that tight in the 50's. Maybe it had 650B rims way back...


   RE:RE:MISC: Vintage tire sizes posted by Bryant on 8/12/2005 at 10:19:30 AM
You may be right. The Simplex derailleur was not original, the hub wingnuts kept hitting it and wouldn't tighten all the way. I may just do what you suggest and build a different wheelset.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC: Vintage tire sizes posted by JONathan on 8/14/2005 at 6:38:02 AM
Hey, Bryant. Try both wingnuts on the derailer-side. I found that mine are short and long. The longer reach is for the derailer-side. Good luck.

   : Vintage tire sizes posted by John E on 8/15/2005 at 7:45:40 PM
The rims could be of a size other than 700C, but I think it's unlikely. If the outer diameter of your rim is 622mm, then it is indeed a 700C, and your problem is related to the lack of bead hooks. In that case, I would vote for Conti. Top Touring 700Cx28s, inflated to 70PSI. That's what I am planning with my Capo's "new" wheelset.

AGE / VALUE:Haden Lug Group posted by: Kevin K on 8/8/2005 at 1:19:23 PM
Hi all. I purchased a lug group at a swap meet this weekend. Several pieces have the letters " HADEN " stamped into them. The lugs are very pointed with lots of " windows ". The seller told me the tubing kit was double butted 531. All the research till now points to it being a Raleigh Professional frame save for 2 facts. Included in the group were cantilever braze-ons and Shimano SF dropouts with adjuster screws. No other info given. I've located a frame builder. Anyone know of any other means to I.D. these lugs? THanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Haden Lug Group posted by James on 8/8/2005 at 4:47:41 PM
Here is the best reference I know to ID a lugset. Perhaps Richard or Elton(who compiled the photos) can answer any specifics about the sets if you e-mail them.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Haden Lug Group posted by Warren on 8/9/2005 at 3:56:02 AM
You need an experienced framebuilder to narrow it down for you, if indeed the set actually represents a mass produced bike. My bike mentor has built frames and has some sweet lugs and tubesets matched up eg early 70's Cinelli lugs and 531 tubes. Could be a 73 Masi Gran Criterium...but it ain't. Somehow, Shimano SF don't really sync with classic english lugs and may be mismatched.

That link from James shows some cool shots of Haden lugs that you describe. Maybe Brian Bayliss or Richard Sachs would take the time to answer an email. They are venerable builders.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Haden Lug Group posted by Kevin on 8/9/2005 at 3:44:56 PM
Hi all. These lugs look to be the Concorde style. The Shimano dropouts do seem odd. I doubt I'll ever build the frame up. I've need for the dropouts and I'll resell the rest. Thanks for the info. Kevin

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by: Dave on 8/6/2005 at 9:15:46 PM
I have a couple of Raleigfhs from the 70's. One is a "Record Ace" and I know that the tubing is Reynolds 20-30. The other is an unknown Raleigh, because all of the decals are gone, except the "Made in England" one.

So how do I tell if my mystery Raleigh is Reynolds 531 or 20-30. It seems pretty light, but all I have have is the serial number. The original paint could have been from a number of different models. Are there any tell-tale signs? Thanks for the help.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by JONathan on 8/6/2005 at 10:34:17 PM
Try "retroRaleigh" site. I beleive they have specs. I have an RRA that is 2030...a typical swap from the honorable pre-bikeboom builds to the heavier 2030. They kept the name the same. I think that there were even early bikeboom aces with the higher grade steel (531). Mine are all of the 2030 steel...except, one "Gran Prix" with the wrap-around seat-stays seems a bit different...lighter, but not much. The steel rims add up to cancel out the frame tube difference, IMHO.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by Dave on 8/7/2005 at 2:43:13 AM
Thanks Jon. Unfortunately, I do not know what the other bike is. Only its original color and the serial number, which won't give me much info. I have checked Retro-Raleighs (which is a great resource), but it didn't help. I will take another look anyway.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by jack on 8/7/2005 at 5:42:39 AM
I believe my full 531 frames (w/o fork) weigh between 5-6lbs. 20-30 would be 1-2lbs more. Also, tap main tubes lightly with fingernails. 531 (or equivalent) will have a tinny ring while 20-30 will have no ring at all (thud!). Also, most 531 frames (esp full 531db) from '70 and up have forged dropouts. There are other clues but they're also subtle.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by marc on 8/7/2005 at 9:06:47 PM
check the seat post diameter. If it's 27.2 then it's double butted 531. If it it's not, well it still could be plain guage 531, the seat post diameter would be around 26.6? You can check online. If it's not either of those than it's probably plain ol 2030. I just thought about it, try putting your seat post from your record ace into the other bike, if it fits than you know what you've got.

BTW I've got a 1973 raleigh record ace. It's a beauty, full reynolds, white frame with yellow head tube and bands on the seat tube, nervex lugs outlined in black, all french components (stronglight, and simplex super lj really nice alloy derailleurs) except for weinmann side pull brakes. The story I've heard which I would like to believe is that they only built 200 of them, gave 20 to the british olympic cycling team and sold the rest in the states. Who knows, there's not much info out there on these.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by Kurt K. on 8/8/2005 at 12:14:08 AM
How about letting us in on the color then, Dave?

What size frame?

Any "CC" cutout at the bottom of the bottom bracket?


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by Dick in FL on 8/8/2005 at 4:08:48 AM
Jack's fingernail trick works great. Thanks Jack! Also, you can use the fact that Reynolds 531 has a density of .28 lb/cu-ft which corresponds to a specific gravity of 7.754

Weigh the frame in air. Weigh it again in water (completely submerged with all cavities flooded). Subtract the latter from the former to determine the buoyancy force (weight of the displaced water per Pascal's Principle). Finally, divide this buoyancy force into the original weight in air to arrive at the specific gravity. The determination of density from this point is left as an exercise for the student.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by Dave on 8/11/2005 at 4:15:06 AM
Thanks for all of the suggestion, though I think the last one may be too complex (technically) for me to perform. The fingernail trick would certainly be worth a try. though. I believe that the seat post diameters for the bikes are the same - about 25.4 - 25.6 mm. The lugs on the unknown frame are a bit more ornate than the Record Ace.

It seems that there are two kinds of Record Ace out there. One is usually black 20-30 with decent Sun Tour components and an italicized "Record Ace" on the top tube. Some also appear to have better Raleigh branded components than others. Then there seems to be the white ones mentioned that say "RRA" on the top tube. It seems that the former type (which is my bike) is more common. I love the Record Ace's taller riding position, but it is a bit heavy. I completely stripped, painted and rebuilt the "unknown" Raleigh and got it down to approx. 25 lbs. fully built. I think I will try the same treatment with the Record Ace and see what I get.

From the descriptions though, it sounds like they are both 20-30 tubing. I will try the fingernail test and report back. I would be happy to send photos of one or both bikes.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 - HELP? posted by JONathan on 8/11/2005 at 7:52:23 AM
25#'s is light! Sounds like 531 frame (plain gauge)...but that is just comparing notes. My Records and Record Aces all are more than 25#, by some large margin. That is a lightweight worth riding, because the weight is about right for a good balance between performance and comfort/stability. IMHO, of course.

    Reynolds 531 vs 20-30 posted by John E on 8/15/2005 at 7:54:42 PM
Capo Modell Campagnolo frames are made with Reynolds 531, but use 26.4mm seat posts.