AGE / VALUE:   Frame Identifecation ? posted by: Chris on 9/28/2005 at 5:03:53 AM
I am trying to find out the make of a vintage road frame.
The only clues I have are the letters RGF on the top of the top tube and the serial no. GMK001 on the bottom. It has Campy dropouts. Thanks!

AGE / VALUE:   Trek 610 posted by: Mark R. on 9/27/2005 at 7:18:42 PM
I have a Trek 610 I bought from a friend. It is just exactly like new, except the gum hoods have melted, and it had Foam grips put on in the shop. My friend used it twice, and then put it in the garage for the last 23 years or so. It is really pretty. Any idea of the value? Anyone interested?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trek 610 posted by Bryant on 9/28/2005 at 10:38:55 AM
I have a 1982 Trek 614 that I use as my commuter. It is a Reynolds 531 frame, Suntour Cyclone Mk II derailleurs, Barend shifters(my upgrade) rigida 27in wheels and Sugino AT triple half step crank set (28-45-50). Besides the barcons, I replaced the stem with a Nitto Technomic, put on clipless pedals, put a Brooks B17 saddle on it, mounted a rear rack with panniers and put on my light set. Overall I spent more on the accessories and upgrades than the bike, which was a find at a local thrift shop. Value, to me it is priceless. I say if it fits, ride it. If you enjoy the ride, value is a moot point.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trek 610 posted by JONathan on 9/28/2005 at 6:58:34 PM
Try the vintage Trek site for more information. I see it showing up in 1984 and that's it. Pretty rare and the specs look impressive. Figure what it's worth to you and advertise it. Good luck.

AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Carbolite 103 Bike posted by: Joe M on 9/27/2005 at 4:59:47 AM
I had a friend stop by this evening with a bike for me to replace a few cables and it's tires.
I didn't give it much thought at the time, but after reading a couple of prior posts here, I am wondering now what model it is.
I saw a post below stating that Carbolite 103 frames were internally lugged, but this one looks like old fashioned lugs to me. It's beige in color with black decals.

It's equipped as follows:

Frame: Carbolite 103 - 25" - w/DT pump pegs & Seattube bottle braze-ons but no cable braze-ons
Rims: Wolber Alloy 27"
Hubs: Maillard Low Flange w/nutted axles
Tires: Wolber (removed matched dryrotted pair)
Crankset: SR cotterless (Apex?)
Pedals: Atom with Christophe Toe clips
Derailleurs: Suntour Seven
Shifters: Suntour Power Shifters - DT mounted
Handlebars: Steel with White Velox tape and end plugs
Stem: SR? (Unmarked, but looks like an SR)
Seatpost: steel
Saddle: Ideal (looked to be just molded plastic or vinyl)
Brakes: Dia-Compe Center Pull

At first I had thought that it was a combination of newer and older parts, but he swore he bought it new, and has changed nothing, but couldn't remember when he bought it. It didn't look like it had much use, and there was no signs of any parts being moved or swapped. But if the Carbolite 103 frames are internal lugged, what might this one be? I had just figured that it was a later rendition of a UO8 or similar model that has had a few upgrades, but after talking to the owner, he swears he bought it just the way it is. By it's components, if they are original, they put it in the 1982 era? I actually was surprised to see the Made in France decal, I would have expected to see a made in Canada or other. Didn't Peugeot build some bikes in Canada in the later years? Peugeot bikes pretty much dissapeared around here after the mid 70's, a newer model is a rare sight here. The Peugeot decal is just plain block type letters, with no fancy graphics.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Carbolite 103 Bike posted by JONathan on 9/27/2005 at 7:30:26 AM
I'm pretty sure that one of mine has the lugged frame with "carbolite 103" sticker. I extracted the parts for another bike, but I still have the rather pristine frame and forks. I'll check on it and report back. Interesting that the Japanese parts were first adopted as original parts on Motobecanes (as far as I know) sometime in the early or mid-70's. That was a bold move that produced success and the others followed suit, possibly due to supply shortages during the bikeboom, but also possibly due to the high performance of SunTour derailers and other Japanese components. Just my guess, of course. The Wolber rims were excellent. Possibly a custom order? Very interesting.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Carbolite 103 Bike posted by ozzler / sam on 9/21/2008 at 11:21:22 AM
hi i got a peugeot 103 carbilite in red but i want to no what the exact color is so i can restor it. it has siny crome forks aswell. and the bike your restoring sounds like the one befor it there both good not great but good road bikes even by todays standereds

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by: Joe M on 9/27/2005 at 2:02:11 AM
I have a very clean large frame Motobecane Grand Jubile' that I picked up which has been stripped of it's derailleurs and crankset. I believe the original equipment pieces were Huret Jubile' and Stronglight 49D and have been keeping an eye out for these on ebay with no luck, or at least not at finding them at a reasonable price.
My question is, should I be looking to put this back to original, or should I simply find some more affordable components? The bike is near mint, paint and decals are very near if not perfect. It looks like a new bike that someone stripped for some parts. The main frame is Reynolds 531, with Weinmann rims, Normandy hubs, and Weimann c/p brakes. I have been told that I should keep it all French, even to the point of replacing the Weinmann pieces, but that would not be keeping it original either. I do remember these when they were out, they were sort of the bargain of the line in those days, sort of along the lines of a Raleigh Super Course, but a bit better equipped.
Another suggestion I was given was to go all Campy record, but thats, neither original or affordable. I was considering a set of Suntour Cyclone gear changers, and if I can find one, a later Motobecane branded crankset?

I figured I'd post it here to see if anyone here may have any ideas as to what would be a good set of derailleurs and crankset to use on this that wouldn't look too out of place?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by David on 9/27/2005 at 2:59:59 AM
My Moto catalog for this one:
Headset: Stronglight Competition
Bars & stem: Pivo Pro
Brakes: Weinmann centerpull
Der: Huret Jubile or Suntour Cyclone GT
Crank: Stronglight 49D or SR AX5
Hubs: Normandy
Saddle: Ideale 80
Post: SR

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by Joe M on 9/27/2005 at 4:31:12 AM
Does it list both Suntour and Huret in the same year? What year catalog do you have? The only one I have seen that matched my headbadge was a 1974 catalog in French.
The headbadge on this bike is the square black on silver with the plain "M" logo. ( I had assumed that the original crankset was a Stronglight since the B.B. axle is Stronglight).
If that's the case, I already have the derailleurs. I wonder if the SR AX5 was Motobecane scripted? I was under the impression that Cyclone Gt's were newer buy a few years, the Cyclone derailleur was what came on my '78 Raleigh Super Course.
The other differences: My seat post is a straight Simplex alloy post, the saddle is a padded leather Selle Royale, and my stem is a GB with unbranded bars that just say "made In France". If I go with the Cyclone GT derailleurs, I would probably add a set of bar end shifters as well.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by David on 9/27/2005 at 2:50:21 PM
I think I got this [undated] catalog the summer of 1975. The headbadges in the pictures (and as part of the catalog design) are round w/red "M" sitting on top of stylized wings. The component possibilities are stated in the summary specs. The GT and Grand Jubile appear to sport the same cranks (SR) and Suntour derailers. The Grand Record has TA cranks and Campy gearing and the others are all Campy.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: 1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by Mark R. on 9/27/2005 at 7:24:02 PM
Is it classic red and black? I had a love affair with one for years. Does it have the fancy Prugnat lugs? I'd try to replace everything as original, Stronglight crankset, Jubilee deraileurs ect...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by Joe M on 9/27/2005 at 8:08:57 PM
Mine is champagne with red, the headbadge is a small square silver plate with the letter M on it. The badge is glued on, no rivits, no rivit holes. A local dealer that used to sell these had an old sales flyer that showed this badge in late '73 to '74 only, the newer badges were the round gold looking badge with the wings and red M in the center. The flyer he had did not show this model, it only was for the Grand Record.
David, does your catalog show the color options for the Grand Jubile'? I've seen the red and black frames, but have always thought they were later models. I do remember looking at one in black and red in or around 1979.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by David on 9/28/2005 at 4:48:20 PM
Catalog says "Red or silver" but the one pictured is red with black contrast panels.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by Joe M on 9/29/2005 at 8:28:05 AM
Does your catalog give what type of dropouts it has in '75?
I have found several pics or some early Grand Jubile' bikes, but all have Huret dropouts? My rear dropouts are Campy, and the fork dropouts are stanped, with some number stamped in them, neither are Huret.

Also, you list Cyclone GT as an option, but isn't the GT the long cage version? Does it give a rear freewheel specs? Mine has a 14-26t Atom freewheel. Which would probably still be in the range of the short cage derailleur? Of course, if this came with the Huret Jubilee derailleurs, it would match just fine. To go with the Cyclone derailleurs, I would also probably have to swap the freewheel, which would mean swapping the hub as well, since it is French threaded. If I used Suntour gear changers, I would probably rather have a matching Suntour freewheel.

Also, there is an example of my headbadge on a Team Champion pictured at Classic Rendezvous,

Mine and the one at CR is the only one's I have seen so far with this headbadge, I wonder if it was a short lived design?

Mine may be the silver option, it's got a coating of clear over the entire frame, including the chrome tips on the forks, the decal are on top of the clear, so I assume it's original. The clear has an amber color to it, and gives the forks a gold look, and the frame a champaigne color. It looks like they were trying to give it some rust protection, or maybe it was just a way of giving it a fancier look.
With the fancy Nervar lugs, and the sharp paint sceme, it's a real sharp looking bike.
I have gotten several emails with various combinations of components, the main difference being the derailleurs and the rims, mine has Weinmann concaves, while many I have seen pictured look to have Weinmann dimpled, or Rigida rims, the Rigida rims all look to be similar to the wider Weinmann dimpled rims, a version of Rigida Alloys that I have not run into before.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: 1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by jack on 9/30/2005 at 3:34:51 AM
I also have a champagne/red Grand Jubile. It came with mostly french components as you listed. If your size, I'd just ride it with whatever components you have available. Then, if the bike suits you, pick up parts you want at your leisure. Of course it would be best to find a donor bike since the choice french bits can be pricy. Unfortunately, I don't ride my Jubile because its 25" so if anyone has a smaller frame to trade...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by David on 10/1/2005 at 4:25:45 AM
Back to the brochure...
"Reynolds 531 double butted. Forged tips."
"Atom 14-28 with Huret spoke protector"
"HIgh performance alloy rims 27 x 1 1/4" Michelin
Elan HP tires"
The high end bikes are described as having Reynolds 531 DB tubing "throughout." Does this model lack it somewhere?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: 1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by jack on 10/1/2005 at 6:18:57 AM
I think its confusing re 531 because the details of the models probably changed over the years. Because I have both, I know my early-70's Grand Record (champagne/black) is 531 (w/DB main tubes) throughout whereas my early-70's Grand Jubile is straight gauge 531 mains and who knows what else.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: 1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by Walter on 10/1/2005 at 12:32:25 PM
I have a 78 I'm pretty sure is original. Gold and brown. The bike lost some of its pedigree by the later 70s as it's a Vitus 888 frameset. Full ST drivetrain with ratcheting DT shifters.

The 531 Jubiles in red/black are beautiful bikes.

The OP is correct with the ID of the headtube badges IIRC.

To throw another permutation into the mix I'm pretty sure I've seen the earlier GJs with the Stronglight cranks as mentioned but with Campy NR changers. That combo was on the Grand Records throughout the later 70s but I think appeared on the earlier GJs.

Would be a good way to run the bike regardless.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: 1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by Kevin K on 10/3/2005 at 1:25:06 PM
Hi. I located a Motobecane frame a few months back. Riveted head badge.Colors are light bluegreen metallic with a dark blue head tube. Vertical dropouts. It at one time had Campy components. Columbus tubing. Any idea what year this bike was built? Thanks, Kevin

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile' posted by Joe M on 10/7/2005 at 6:22:27 AM
The Reynolds decal on this bike says "3 Tubes Reinforcés" (in French, not misspelled). Compared to a Raleigh Super Course frameset I have here, which is also supposed to be a 3 tube frame, the GJ is a bit heavier, but only with the fork installed. The bare frame is about a half pound lighter than the Raleigh.
A lot of the difference is probably to do with the quick release brake hanger and a much taller headset.
I met a guy at the LBS this week who has a GJ that he bought new. He told me I could stop by and look it over, and that his is all original except for the derailleurs, which he upgraded to Campy Record. He even had the original receipt from 12/73. His had Huret dropouts, the later headbadge, (round with the red 'M' over the wings), a Stronglight 49D crankset, Weinmann Concave rims with Normandy high flange hubs, an Atom 14-28 freewheel, Ideal leather saddle, and was the same color as mine.
This raises even more questions as to the year of mine, if his is a '73 or '74, it has what I had thought was the later headbadge, but I did see a 1974 catalog with my headbadge? His has Huret dropouts front and rear, while mine has Campy rear and stamped steel up front. His bottom bracket cups are not chromed as mine are, and his 531 decal is in English.
I am now considering the posibility that mine may not have been purchased in the US? He brought up the idea that chances are that the headbadge and dropouts may have been different on a non-US sold bike? He told me that he had gone to France with his bike to ride back when it was brand new, and had seen a few GJ's, but with all French equipment, like Mafac brakes, and various other derailleurs. I have considered another posibility that during the bike boom, manufacturers were pushing out enormous quanities of bikes. What would have happened if they ran short of a particular frameset? Would they have substituted another model's frameset to keep up with demand? My frameset matches the specs for a Grand Record, but is painted as a Grand Jubile', while the forks don't fit either of those specs? All of the GJ's I have seen have had either Huret or Suntour GT dropouts on later models. My fork dropouts are not stamped with a name and I don't recognize the other markings on them, they could be anything I guess. The fork dropouts are pretty well finished for being stamped steel, but definitely not forged.
I can't say for sure what the catalog that I saw which had all of it's bikes pictured with my style headbadge, I can only go by what the shop owner told me as far as the year, and that it did have several order sheets dated 1974 in it. That catalog had no writing (French or English), just pictures, model names and part numbers for each frame size. I have been told that Motobecanes all came from an Importer here which handled several brands, and not directly from Motobecane to the dealers.
One other thing I noticed different between mine and the one I went to see here, my headtube lugs are a bit more artistic than that bike had, they look the same at a glance, but mine have longer points or curly details. The curly portion of the lugs is about 1/4" longer on mine and wraps further around the headtube, with more smaller details as well.
All of the GJ's I have seen so far have been Silver, although I have seen pics of a few Red bikes with Black lugs, and none of them have had the overall clear coat like mine. The clear on mine looks to have an intentional tint which turns the silver to a champaigne color, and the chrome fork tips to a gold color. At a glance my forks look like they are gold chrome plated. Also, none of the other's I have seen so far have had chrome tipped forks? All of the red on my bike, (lugs, and lettering is on top of the tinted clear, as is the Reynolds decal and seat post decal. The headbadge appears to be stuck on, there is no screws or rivets, and it's not clear coated like the forks and frame. The press in cups of the headset are clear coated, while the rest of teh headset is not. The frame also appears to be rust proofed or coated inside as well with something? It's a clear waxy coating that apears to have been well sprayed inside the tubes, it's noticable when you look in the headtube and bottom bracket, as well as drips at the little vent holes in the bottom of the chainstays. It looks like either cosmoline or wax.
I found a Stonglight 93 crankset in my pile of spare parts, which may end up on this, which would leave only the derailleurs to decide on or find. I've seen about an equal number so far of these with either SL 49D's or SL 93's, so I sort of figure that they must have came with either over the years depending on the model year, with the exception of the later ones having the SR built, Moto scripted cranks.

   Suntour Cyclone Derailleur posted by Ernie on 11/3/2005 at 2:13:42 PM
I am in a situation to offer Suntour Cyclone 7000 Front and rear Derailleurs in brandnew Condition, if someone is looking for such items.
They can be shipped out of Switzerland by regular Mail.
Please contact me by Email.


FOR SALE:   Many item listed to Ebay posted by: Peter Naiman on 9/26/2005 at 3:23:50 AM
I've posted almost twenty items to Ebay tonight, with many more to follow. Much of what is posted
is Campagnolo second generation NOS Super Record. Most of it was mounted on a few show bikes, but
the bikes were never on the road, so I still consider the componants NOS even though mounted.

To find my listings just look under my Ebay handle: hetchinspete.

Listed so far:

Hetchins logo patches designed by myself and Bob Hovey. Based on the design of an early 50s
sweater. 3.5 X 4.25" in size. Atleast ten still available at $10.00 plus shipping.
Used Nuovo Record chainset.
Used very nice Nervar chainset with excellent Stronglight rings.
NOS in box Edco Gold Ano Competition headset(Brittish).
NOS Campag Alloy Freewheel, 13-20.
Campag alloy freewheel removal tool in original box.
NOS Resilion Rear fixed/free rear hub. Highflange 40 hole.
NOS Racelite highflange hub. 32 hole.
Used Dura Ace AX chainset with very good rings/ fair pedal with toeclips.
NOS second generation Super Record fluted seat tube. 27.2mm.
Very nice Brooks Pro Presoftened saddle. Chrome rails.
NOS second generation Campag Super Record chainset. Mint. 52-42 rings.
NOS in box, Campag Super Record front derailleur. Early 80s.
NOS Campag Super Record front clamp on derailleur. Good condition.
NOS Campag Super Record brake handles with excellent NOS rubbers. Mint.
NOS Campag Second generation rear derailleur/ with titanium mounting bolt.
NOS Maeda Pro-Compe freewheel/ Straight block/ 14-18.
NOS Campag Super Record low flange hubset/ 36 hole/ 126mm spacing.
NOS Cinelli Giro D'Italia handle bars 64/40. with NOS Cinelli stem.

I'll be up late tonight listing much more including some pre-war Hetchins transfers that we've had
reproduced and are not available anywhere else.

Best regards,
Peter Naiman
Glendale, WI