FOR SALE:   Schwinn Paramount 56cm 1990's posted by: Phil on 1/11/2006 at 5:14:36 AM
I have Schwinn paramount forsale 1990's one of last Paramounts, size 56cm. ridden twice , shimano equiped 1o5 and other shimano parts. Like new bike. blue paint- $400

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Miyata 718 A Aluminum posted by: Gralyn on 1/10/2006 at 5:57:29 PM
I'm getting a Miyata aluminum frame. I think it's maybe mid-to-late 80's. My idea was to make a fixed gear bike out of it. I have a Raleigh Technium aluminum fixed gear bike - but it's really too tall for me. This Miyata I'm getting is a smaller frame.

The frame takes 700 C wheels, it has the headset, forks, and I believe stem and bars - but it has no bottom bracket.

My question is: Since this is an 80's Japanese bike - will most bottom brackets from other Japanese bikes from that period fit it? Does anyone have any information, experience, knowledge, etc. on the Miyata 718 A Alumitech bikes?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Miyata 718 A Aluminum posted by Warren on 1/11/2006 at 12:07:24 AM
Standard ISO british BB...the only thing that could be different is the headset. It may be JIS...slightly smaller bearing race on the fork.
Miyata had a reputation for making decent aluminum bikes in the late 80's. I coveted an "AlumiCross 1000" (early 105) or a "QuickCross" (Deore LX). I ended up with a C-dale T1000 but that is definitely off topic...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Miyata 718 A Aluminum posted by Gralyn on 1/12/2006 at 4:12:15 AM
I got the Miyata frame today. It already has the headset - and seems to be in great condition. I test-fitted some BB cups.....and sure enough - the common, typical Japanese bottom brackets fit.

I was told it takes 700C wheels. I test-fitted a 27" wheel.....sure enough - it takes 700C....a 27" won't fit.

The head tube, bottom bracket tube, and main triangle - are all aluminum. The seat stays and chain stays are steel....the fork is chro-mo steel. It has internal routing for the rear brake cable, braze-ons for down tube shifters.

     Miyata 718 A Aluminum for sale posted by Jay on 8/10/2008 at 10:01:23 AM
1993 Miyata 718 for sale. Like new because it has been in a garage and used only several times. Light green/teal color, alumatec frame, shamano, vetta seat, sport LX. Paid $700. If interested email me and we can talk about pictures and price.

     Miyata 718 A Aluminum for sale posted by Jay on 8/10/2008 at 10:06:42 AM
1993 Miyata 718 for sale. Like new because it has been in a garage and used only several times. Light green/teal color, alumatec frame, shamano, vetta seat, sport LX. Paid $700. If interested email me and we can talk about pictures and price.

AGE / VALUE:   Campagnolo Rally posted by: paul on 1/10/2006 at 4:30:33 AM
I bought a semi-old steel frame with an interesting Campagnolo group on it. It has a "Rally" rear deraileur with a Record triple crank 36 45 53 gearing. It also has high flange hubs and standard reach Campy brakes. Everything else is Campy Record, too. Does this bike have any value? The guy I got it from said it has about 4000 miles on it. The parts look new. VERY polished with no scratches that I have found. Just wondering if it may be rare or something. Thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Campagnolo Rally posted by Warren on 1/10/2006 at 12:39:25 PM
There is a generation of Rally derailleur (1st?) that gets hundreds of dollars on ebay. Apart from that, Rally was only an adequate performer but the bike as a whole certainly has real you have a name, details, pics?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Campagnolo Rally posted by Ken on 1/10/2006 at 5:06:36 PM
Rally was the Campy answer to making touring equipment. Hence it being coupled with the triple crankset. Back in the day, the hot set up was Campy low flange hubs - so you could use longer spokes (more comfortable ride) and the high flange were for racing bikes (shorter spokes - stiffer wheel). Sounds like you found an awesome bike.

   high vs low flange hubs posted by John E on 1/11/2006 at 4:26:38 PM
Assuming a wheel is properly built, I have never been able to feel any difference in ride quality or stiffness between a wheel with a high-flange hub and one with a low-flange hub.

   RE:high vs low flange hubs posted by Ken on 1/13/2006 at 7:12:08 PM
You're absolutely right, there isn't a discernable difference between high and low flange. But remember, it was the "70's and mechanics were working with what we had and waiting for engineering and science to find us. Besides, if an Italian said it, it must have been true!!! My first copy of Sutherland's Handbook was something like 30 pages and looks like something that was done at Kinko's - Wait, that was before Kinko's. Anyway, a lot of what we accepted as gospel,truth,wisdom, etc. was whatever we could figure out at the time.

AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by: Terry Smith on 1/8/2006 at 7:02:01 PM
Hi all,

I've been browsing the list..interesting. I've got some questions about what I'm pretty sure is a *1976* Motobecane Le Champion. It was given to me by my father (the purchaser) in the early 80s and I have the original owner's manual which is dated 1976.

In reading through the material on this list and others I'm a little confused about the vintage/components. The bike does *not* have the multi-colored Motobecane metal emblem on the stem tube, rather it's black and silver.
Also, *everything* on the bike seems to be Campy Nuovo Record, including crank (53/42), seatpost, brakes, headset, derailleurs..Even the hubs are NR (built with Rigida Rims and Wolber tires).

The frame is 'lilac'.

It has a Phillippe stem and Phillipe "ATAX" bars.

So, a few questions...
Does this bike sound 'stock' for 1976?
How the heck do you find out the framesize? I've measured it at 55 cm C-C. Stamped on the bottom of the bottom bracket is the serial #3020377 and '505'. What does the 505 mean?

I'm building another (non-vintage) bike and I'm afraid this one will have to go...hence the questions.

Thanks in advance!

Terry Smith

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by Walter on 1/8/2006 at 11:35:25 PM
Parts do sound original. Moto used Campy NR on their top end bikes. On the Grand Record which was about the top of heir production models (your le Champ was a semi-custom and not mass-produced) used NR derailleurs but frequently a Stronglight crankset and Universal brakes. The higher line le Champion would be more of a "full Campy" bike. Your father bought a very, very nice bike back in '80.

I think Moto measured C-C but they might have measured center to top of top tube. Either way is legit, IMHO, so long as you state which measurement you're using when discussing the bike.

I do not know of anyone who has deciphered the Moto serial # system but perhaps someone will illuminate us all.

Nice bike!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by David on 1/9/2006 at 11:56:42 PM
I picked up my Moto catalog in the spring of 1976. It specs Campy NR mostly for "Le Champion," in silver with Universal brakes, Philippe bars and stem, Ideale saddle, and Super Champ rims. Your "lilac" paint makes me wonder...I thought those odd colors were popular in the 80s. The head badge shown in the catalog is the round blue one with red "M" above white wings.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by Terry on 1/10/2006 at 2:38:16 AM
Thanks Walter and David!


The brakes are definitely Campy. In fact everything on it is Campy except for the stem and bars (Philippe). And it's definitely lilac :-) (with gold 'pin striping' on the edge of the lugs). Finally, the head badge is black and silver. The bike must be pre-1980 'cuz he gave it to me around 80 and had owned it a few years by then. (He was building up a Trek 720 for a cross-country trip and I have that too. Still ride it about daily...very sweet.. but heavy).

And finally I have the actual owner's handbook. It's dated November 1976. By the way, David, the Handbook shows the emblem as round and in color but the bike's badge is more like a shield.

What is something like this worth anyway?

You guys want to see a pic?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by Dave Koski on 1/12/2006 at 12:14:57 AM
I am currently restoring what I think is an early '70's LeChampion. I bought it as a bare frame and fork. It's black with two red bands on the seattube, and a red headtube. The headbadge is a rectangular reverse painted plastic badge riveted to the headtube that says "Motobecane France" and a winged logo. I'd like to see a photo of yours. If you are planning to sell, I might be interested.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by Walter on 1/14/2006 at 2:13:39 AM
Brake may well have been swapped at the original LBS at your father's request. Sometime around 75-76 was when Moto changed from the rectangular head badge described by David to the oval "Flying M" badge that David also described. It is possible that the frame was a year older than the catalog given your father esp. if, as seems possible, your father had it at least partially custom assembled.

While I doubt I can make you an offer I too would like to see some pics.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by Walter on 1/15/2006 at 5:21:06 AM

Does your bike look like this? If so that might answer some questions. I'd not seen that headbadge style before.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by Terry Smith on 2/6/2006 at 12:28:09 AM
I've been away for a while and away from this thread. Thanks for all the messages. I have taken some pictures of the bike and will post them here (I think). I also measured it again,'s 56 cm C-C. The bike is in quite good condition as you can see.

I guess I'm going to have to sell it...I've got another bike coming into the stable next week and I've got to clean house (or garage in this case)!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by Motobecane Le Champion - pictures on 2/6/2006 at 1:09:43 AM
Still trying to post some pics guys!


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Motobecane le Champion - 1976 posted by Eddie Lane on 3/31/2008 at 3:30:15 PM
Your bike is definately a pre 1980 le Champion. I bought mine in 1974 at BJ's bicycle shop in San Antonio I still have it. I also have the Bicycling! magazine article discussing the Lilac paint. My Le Champ is all NR except for the stem, handlebars, and brakes (the brakes were Universals that I chaged to Shimano DuraAce). Rims were superchmps. I purchased this bike for 650.00 in 1974. It still rides great although tires are getting more difficult to find.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Nice Lenton Sports on the bay posted by: Warren on 1/6/2006 at 6:12:38 PM
A 23" Reg Harris model...I've never seen a red one! NMA

      Nice Lenton Sports on the bay posted by John E on 1/6/2006 at 6:49:36 PM
That is a clean-looking frame! Thanks for posting. Fortunately, it's WAY too tall for me.