This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

MISC:   What happened to steel frames?...more posted by: Josef on 10/28/2001 at 11:48:47 AM
Why aluminum frames instead of steel? I haven't seen too many old school aluminum MTBs these days.Back then there were concerns about strength and fatique on aluminum frames.They were too stiff.They're still stiff.Have aluminum tubes improved that much to replace steel?What about costs? I still see plenty of old steel rigs on the trails.Dent a steel tube,replace it.Dent aluminum and it's time for a new bike.Bikes are expensive these days!
Why 42t or 44t chainrings?Is it because of clearance due to running shocks? I'm glad RaceFace still make 48s.New bikes are too slow.I usually spin out before I can get decent speed.
AND....what happened to Ground Controls?That was a great tire! Why can't Specialized or WTB make this tire again,with the classic tread and modern,lightweight compounds like the Hutchison Mosquitos?
I'm glad U style rear brake stays are still around.Sorry.I must be getting old.

   RE:MISC:   What happened to steel frames?...more posted by Jonathan on 11/3/2001 at 3:53:56 AM
I can't imagine why the average guy would go for aluminum tubing when Chro/Mo 4130 or similar steel is tough stuff. Racing I can't say, but my
Specialized RockHopper is the all ChroMo steel rigid-frame that is indestructible. All the attached
stuff gets trashed along the way, but the frame is begging for more. Aluminum is a fad, except for racers, IMHO. Those Ground Controls are still around.
I moved up to Specialized kevlars which are better tires.
Panaracer pro are tough tires for under $40. The new Specialized have beefier sidewalls, which means there's parity between tread wear and side disintegration caused mostly by weathering.
I just threw out a Grnd. Cntrl. tire that had good tread, but rotten cords which caused two tube failures before I figured it out. Listen for that squeaking noise under a load. They looked fine
when I stood off the bike and looked at the tires. When I got on and moving the tube bulged out which made the pressure drop due to the increase in volume that was created.
MTB's were cheap for a while in the thrift stores, but guys are saying they are getting harder to find...the good steel-framed ones that is to say.

   RE:RE:MISC:   What happened to steel frames?...more posted by Jonathan on 11/3/2001 at 4:03:22 AM
The U-brakes were only around 1984-86 it seems to me. I have a touring mtb which is a Miyata TerraRunner that has the U under the chainstay. Except for the inconvenience of servicing it, the stopping power is great and they don't fade! THe Extreme riders may bring them back into the evolutionary chain, as they are tough brakes.

   U-brakes and steel frames posted by John E on 11/8/2001 at 6:13:55 PM
My Schwinn Project KOM-10 (June 1988 production) has Tange prestige d.b. CrMo, an under-chainstay U-brake, a SunTour Rollercam brake in front, and motorcycle-style Shimano brake handles. With KoolStop pads all around, my braking power is excellent. I also run a "full-size" 110/74mm crankset with 48-40-24 rings and a seven-speed 13-26 freewheel. I operate the SunTour XC derailleurs with SunTour thumb shifters in friction mode, and have Shimano pedals with toeclips. I have greatly enjoyed this bike for several years and have no desire to "upgrade" or update anything. After tearing up the sidewalls on a few Ground Control tyres, I am trying a set of gum-coloured Raptors, with good results to date.

   U-brakes posted by John E on 11/8/2001 at 6:17:28 PM
By the way, sometime before the 1989 model year, Schwinn moved the brake mounting bosses, such that later KOM-10s take standard cantilever brakes, seat-stay mounted in back, of course.

   RE:U-brakes posted by Jonathan on 11/12/2001 at 7:25:21 AM
Those Ground Conrol tires are made witha black sidewall that resists the uv deterioration. I have switched to Panaracer pro
tires (1.95 in.) which are better offroad, but slower on the blacktop. I think the next set will be the Ground Control blackwalls.
Really strnage thing happened with the GC's. While riding across an orchard my tire rear went down. I noticed that the tube was stuck to the inside of the tire, which is indicative of long wear.
The tube had sprung a leak at a seam. I put a new tube on and pumped up to pressure (60 psi). I started out across the orchard to a blacktop road where I noticed a
wavy action indicative of low tire pressure. I stipped immediately and checked the rear tire. The pressure seemed just fine. I got on and started out, when I immediately noticed the
sloppy action from the rear tire. I stopped again and checked the tire. Again, no problem. This scenario repeated a couple more times, causing some interest in trying to figure this out.
I checked the tire very carefully and noticed some barely exposed cords on a section of the sidewall. When pressure was applied on the frame, the tube started to just poke out a slight amount.
Now, it dawned on me that the drop in pressure was a result of increased volume caused by the bulging
tire. The old tube had weakened and failed under this insidious condition. The new tube maintained integrity under the same condition, but most likely near the yield point. I reduced pressure to 40 psi and "limped" back home. The front tire was fine. The only factor that I can think caused the difference is exposure to sunlight. On the porch, the rear tire was getting a megadose of sun in the afternoon, while the front was in the shaded part of the overhang. The rear tire sidewall deteriorated, while the front stayed fine. The leftside of the tire was really decayed, which was the side hit by the sun. And, now I'm waiting for the next surprise; there is no limit to what you can stumble across that's a new problem to solve if you ride long enough!

   RE:MISC:   What happened to steel frames?...more posted by Josef on 12/30/2001 at 1:44:40 PM
Thanks for the responses guys.I guess one thing I need to clarify is the U-brake stays.I meant the U-shaped frame stays,like what's on the Schwinn M1/M3,old Nishiki/Raleigh Technions/Moongoose IBOC Pros and Teams.I think they transmit more power then the traditional seat stays on diamond framed bikes.The U-Brakes on the other hand where great brakes except fpr the clearance issue.Odyssey came out with a slimmer profile that had more mud clearance.On Ground Controls; I liked the tread pattern of the original GCs because they hooked up well.I now use Hutchinson Mosquitos and Pythons.Great tires and highly recommended.Feel great on a light-weight steel rigid.Thanks again.

   RE:MISC:   What happened to steel frames?...more posted by ron finck on 5/16/2002 at 4:36:04 PM
I totally agree about steel.
I recently purchased (2yrs) a Rocky Mountain Blizzard, since it was one of the last quality steel bikes readily available and not custom priced.
I had been riding a Mountain Goat Deluxe, which is now rigid again and sigal speeded. It makes a great town bike, and a fun fare weather off roader.

MISC:   Long live the Rigids! posted by: Josef on 10/28/2001 at 10:02:14 AM
I own a 1993 Specialized Stumpjumper,a veteran XC race bike.Still a very fast bike.It's cool to race against the new duelies and hardtails on the technical trails.As much as I like new technology in mountain biking,I think rigids are still superior to anything out there today due to their simplicity and lightweight.I can outclimb and outsprint hardtails and XC duelies.No lock-out,no pedal feedback and it's light at 22.5lbs.I raced roadies on this bike.Imagine a roadie motoring full tilt only to look back and see an old school rigid eating his rear wheel and then blowing past him.Rigids rule.See you out there.

   RE:MISC:   Long live the Rigids! posted by Jonathan on 11/3/2001 at 4:11:37 AM
Yeah, man; especially after you get the course dialed in, you can rip without pogoing all over the trail; why give up all that energy to the
suspension on the climbs.

FOR SALE:   KAWASAKI MOUNTAIN BIKE posted by: Kevin K on 10/24/2001 at 12:33:55 AM
Hi. I've recently purchased a nice used Kawasaki full suspension mountain bike for my son. Local dealers know nothing of the bike( some even say it doesn't exist )This bike is in Kawasaki's racing colors, complete with those funky green plastic fenders like on Kaw dirt bikes. Any info on this is great. Thank you, Kevin

   RE:FOR SALE:   KAWASAKI MOUNTAIN BIKE posted by Cal on 10/24/2001 at 12:47:55 PM
20" wheels? Aluminium? If so, it is a very collectible "BMX".

   RE:FOR SALE:   KAWASAKI MOUNTAIN BIKE posted by Kevin K on 10/24/2001 at 2:46:29 PM
Hi,no it's got 24" wheels/tires and the frame is steel.Looks pretty cool though. Kevin

   RE:FOR SALE:   KAWASAKI MOUNTAIN BIKE posted by Jeff on 10/24/2001 at 10:18:35 PM
I saw these at a local Sam's Club a few years back. They had a few different mountain bikes and a BMX bike there.

   RE:FOR SALE:   KAWASAKI MOUNTAIN BIKE posted by Kevin K on 10/24/2001 at 11:35:22 PM
Hi. Yea, makes sense. I spoke with a Kawasaki dealer that told me they sold these bikes a few years back for about $400-$500 dollars. I think the bike is more along the lines of a discount store than a $400 up bike. Well,some of the decals are missing which is mostly why I'm looking for info on it.Thanks, Kevin

MISC:   What Do oyu know of a Sekai Atb26? posted by: dave on 10/4/2001 at 2:05:29 AM
i have been given an old slightly beat up black sekai atb26 bike. Does anyone know anything about them? Thanks for any info you have.

   Sekai Atb26? posted by John E on 10/15/2001 at 2:53:20 PM
Sekai [Royale] = SR, a longstanding Japanese brand better known for its cranks and other components. Please post a thorough description and component inventory, and someone here can probably pin down the production date to within a few years.

MISC:    1989 Schwinn Mesa runner value posted by: giksaw on 10/1/2001 at 1:18:40 AM
maybe someone can help me with the information.
I had Schwinn Mesa runner which was stolen.
i need to pay back it's value to my friend who lended it to me.
so how much it worth??
he bought it in 1989 usa and their condition was good.

   RE:MISC:    1989 Schwinn Mesa runner value posted by j.nile on 10/2/2001 at 3:08:33 AM
Why don't you ask this fellow who posted something about a Mesa Runner on another discussion group. E-mail jmkkk5@cs.com for details. He may be of help to you.

   firstflightbikes.com posted by John E on 10/15/2001 at 2:55:32 PM
Check firstflightbikes.com's Schwinn mountain bike data page. For price calibration, the top-of-the-line Schwinn mountain bike that year, the KOM10, was priced a little over $900.

   RE:MISC:    1989 Schwinn Mesa runner value posted by Josef on 10/28/2001 at 9:52:37 AM
I had a Mesa Runner back in 1988,bought new at $199.00,on sale.These days,I see them at swap meets and thrift shops for $40.00 tops and decent shape.It's a low-end model with low-end components.Good luck

FOR SALE:   Infinity Mountain bike posted by: Jaks on 9/29/2001 at 7:48:34 AM
Who makes "infinity" mountain bikes?


FOR SALE:   mantis pro floater posted by: nick on 8/31/2001 at 8:35:10 AM
never built, perfect 18" frame, custom color, mantis profloater

   RE:FOR SALE:   mantis pro floater posted by Shayne on 9/14/2001 at 6:37:47 PM
Please send me pictures, year of production, serial number, and vital measurements. Thanks.

   RE:FOR SALE:   mantis pro floater posted by ron on 2/22/2002 at 1:16:14 AM
Do you still have this bike?
What are you asking?

   RE:FOR SALE:   mantis pro floater posted by Wayne Chapman on 3/18/2002 at 7:10:22 AM
Is this still available?

   RE:FOR SALE:   mantis pro floater posted by Lore on 7/24/2002 at 12:58:09 PM
Do you still sell this bike? Which price? Do you have any picture of it? Let me know...

   RE:FOR SALE:   mantis pro floater posted by dani lutz on 4/27/2004 at 7:24:02 PM
i have a mantis pro floater frame, for more informanton please contact me!


   RE:FOR SALE:   mantis pro floater posted by dani lutz on 4/27/2004 at 7:26:54 PM
i have a mantis pro floater frame, for more informanton please contact me!


MISC:   Schwinn date codes, late 1980s posted by: John E on 7/30/2001 at 12:04:31 PM
Since everyone's Schwinn serial number / date code charts seem to stop in the early 1980s, I hereby present one later data point. My Schwinn KOM-10 has a mid-1988 headbadge number (1528) and a frame number of F804069, which would indicate a return to the early 1960s scheme of letter = month (Jan. = A, June = F) and first digit = last digit of year (8 = 1988). This system would apply only to U.S.-built frames.

MISC:   Womens style Corsaro posted by: Alan on 7/29/2001 at 9:53:21 PM
I have a mid-80's womens syle Corsaro Mountain bike. The name plate says Corsaro America. I bought it new as a complete bike. It has a mix of middle quality parts with suntour XC derailers and a five speed rear cluster. A tag indicates Main Tube/Corsaro/Cro-Mo Steel. Does anybody know anything about this kind of bike?

   RE:MISC:   Womens style Corsaro posted by Hunter Williams on 7/1/2004 at 5:19:54 PM
I too have a Corsaro brand bike, but mine is a road bike that I bought second hand. It is quite a nice bike, but I can't find a darn thing about the manufacturer. If you know of anything about this brand, please let me know.

MISC:   Schwinn Cimarron posted by: Don on 7/23/2001 at 12:45:09 PM
I have a Schwinn Cimarron ATB I bought about 1984 and I am wondering if it is worth anything on the collectors market. It has SunTour XC components mostly with Shimano Deore XTdrivetrain (Biopace rings), canti brakes and thumb shifters. No suspension stuff at all. All this stuff is original equipment. The reason I am asking is it has a lugged frame, as this was their top of the line at the time, I think. The downtube decal says 4130 CroMoly and the bottom bracket and seat tube are lugged. The head tube if fillet brazed. I am short so this is a very small bike.

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Cimarron posted by Don on 7/23/2001 at 5:06:41 PM
Upon closer inspection after reading all these posts! Head badge is Schwinn Chicago and the number stamped on this is 0176. Was this bike made in the USA?

   RE:RE:MISC:   Schwinn Cimarron posted by Cal on 7/25/2001 at 6:51:21 AM
All Schwinns with a headbadge that says Chicago are made in the USA.

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Cimarron posted by Ray on 7/26/2001 at 10:40:35 AM
I am not sure if you can assume that the nameplate "Chicago" means made in the US. I believe that the Chicage nameplate may mean assembled in the US. I base this off of the lugged Schwinn bikes of the 80s that I know were made in Japan by Giant but still have a Chicago plate on them. I have seen LeTours like this.

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Cimarron posted by Dr. Bob, Bicycle Therapist on 8/23/2001 at 8:18:03 PM
Hi Don, Cal, and Ray,
My wife has a green '1985 Schwinn Cimarron, that is completely original and probably has <100 miles on it. Its head badge also says "Chicago." Pretty nice bike for the times.
As far as the Cimarron being the top of the line back then, I think it was, at least as far as the general public was concerned.
I lived in Durango then, and Ned Overend was racing on a Schwinn Sierra, and with it, was tearing up the competition, most of who were on much nicer rides(!!). Schwinn noticed this, and started sponsoring him, as he worked at the local Schwinn shop, too. Later, I was talking with Ned one day at the shop, and he showed me the red Paramountain that Schwinn had made for him. The first Paramount version of a mountain bike! I told Ned to never get rid of that bike as it was a landmark bike; but if he did, to sell it to me! (Naturally.)
Later that season I talked with other Schwinn team riders, who showed me their Paramountains. I can't remember if Schwinn ever put them into production. Anyway, what I am getting at is, there was a nicer model than the Cimarron back then, but only available to Team Schwinn, as I understand it.
I will see if I can find out if Ned still has that bike.
I would like to exchange e-mails and digital pics with anyone with any cool bikes of this era.
Bikes are great, huh?

   www.firstflightbikes.com posted by John E on 8/31/2001 at 8:16:48 AM
www.firstflightbikes.com has data on Schwinn mountain bikes of the 1980s. During the last two years of that decade, Schwinn's top-of-the-line mountain bike was the Team Issue Project KOM-10, which had Tange Prestige II tubing and a Schwinn team/Paramount red-white-and-blue paint job. It may be "obsolete," but I really enjoy riding mine!

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Cimarron posted by j.nile on 9/10/2001 at 10:01:38 PM
I remember that up to 85', they were Schwinn's top mountian bike. The frame featured many braze-ons, so they were well suited to deck out for touring. They also had these beautifully done ovalized lugless joints behind the head tube and at the bottom bracket, and the angles were more upright than other mountian bikes that would soon follow.
I bought a Cimarron lightly used in 85, while search for a sturdy touring bike. I didn't change it much, except I converted it to drop bars, changed the tires and put a pair of Suntour CX Comp pedals on it. Then in 86', I rode it about 4000mi from Utah to Alaska. I lived on that bike with 45lbs of gear for three months and it was about the best thing that ever happened to me. I really got to know that bike, and I have not felt a more reliable steed underneath me since. But alas, in 89', while I was returning to Texas after touring the Olympic Pennisula, UPS lost her. It kind of tore me up for awhile. In four years, I racked up nearly 10k miles on that forest green friend of mine; more miles than I had put on any one bike before. I think they are bulletproof as far as touring goes, but they lack the ability to do tight turns offroad. I'd love to have one to replace the one I lost, so if anyone out there would consider parting with their Cimarron...well, I don't think words alone could express what it would mean to me.

MISC:   Specialized? Cannondale? Trek? posted by: Cal on 7/17/2001 at 6:52:03 AM
I see these brands at yard sales for around $20 - $25 often. Are these good reliable mountain bikes to pick up at those prices?


   RE:MISC:   Specialized? Cannondale? Trek? posted by Joel on 7/23/2001 at 1:11:55 PM
Problem with used mountain bikes is that the components are usually worn out and irreplacable. Any early examples of these brands in great shape, especially Cannondale and high end Specialized would be worth a $25 investment.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Specialized? Cannondale? Trek? posted by Cal on 7/25/2001 at 6:51:58 AM
Thanks Joel.

   component replacement posted by John E on 7/30/2001 at 12:04:23 PM
Since most mountain bikes were built to ISO/British thread standards, I have had no trouble finding suitable, albeit non-authentic/original, replacement parts, particularly since I use friction-mode shifting.

   RE:component replacement posted by Yes on 8/14/2001 at 11:49:21 PM
Yes, as I repair the old mountain bikes the SIS shifters just do not seem to last -- even after new cables and housing they are a pain! Now this is on old very used bikes! I have come to appreciate the friction shifters and I have also noticed that sometimes the SIS thumb shifters seem to continue to work a long time after many early rapid fire shifters died. Also many of the Accushift thumb shifters are still doing fine! Simplicity has its rewards.

   friction shift posted by John E on 8/31/2001 at 8:24:06 AM
I have never seen any real benefit to indexed shifting. My mountain bike has SunTour Accushift thumb levers, which I happily keep in friction mode, and my three road bikes have 20- to 40-year-old Campy downtube levers, which are arguably the smoothest, lightest, most positive, best-looking, and most durable bicycle shift levers ever made. Indexing of the front derailleur, as in the RapidFailure and STI systems, is particularly obnoxious.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Specialized? Cannondale? Trek? posted by JimW. on 10/20/2001 at 11:03:30 PM
I found an ancient Specialized last night, while I was taking the trash out. It had a Dia-compe rear brake mounted under the chainstays, a sure sign of age. It was pretty nasty, with chain rash and rust all over the frame. After I came back upstairs, I thought about it some more. After a half hour of mental torture, I went back down and grabbed it. This afternoon, I started stripping the wheels and components off it, and discovered that the top and down tubes were both dented. I guess after I've finished stripping it, I'll toss the frame. It has 26X1.75 rims, with
street tread tires.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Specialized? Cannondale? Trek? posted by JimW. on 10/27/2001 at 11:04:08 PM
I've continued clearing off the components from the ancient Specialized. After spraying with WD40 and wiping off crusted grease and dirt, I was able to make out the serial# stamping on the BB shell. It's G P 8 1 6 3 5 3, which I presume indicates that this one was made in '81. Checking the Specialized website history section, I see that '81 was
the year they introduced their "Stump Jumper", "The first MTB available at neighborhood bike shops". They show a fuzzy photo of one, and it looks pretty similar to this one. There's a difference, though. This one has the Dia-Compe rear brake mounted under the chainstays. The one in their photo has it in the traditional location, mounted to the seat stays. Does anyone know anything that would explain this discrepency?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Specialized? Cannondale? Trek? posted by Josef on 10/28/2001 at 11:03:15 AM
The frame being an '81 is unusual since mass-production mtbs with understay U-brakes arrived around 1987/1988.Rear Cantilevers returned toward 1989 due to complaints of u-brakes packing up with mud,and running tires larger than 26x1.95s barely cleared.Imagine slightly warping the back wheel.You may have a smaller frame in which rear cantilevers may get in the way of a riders ankle.Just a guess.

   RE:friction shift posted by Josef on 10/28/2001 at 11:23:24 AM
If I had a way,I'd bring back top-mount shifters.My XT and Deore shifters work fine after all the racing I've done.They're light,versatile and I can choose between index and friction.I can run 6/7/8 speed cassettes.I installed 1989 Suntour XC Expert 7/8 speed shifters on my 1999 Schwinn M3 Moab and they work fine with the Sedi chain and Shimano Hyperglide.I can swap the rear rims on all three bikes now.I had problems with rapid fires,STXs and grip shifts as they're indexed only and except for the grip-shift style,you couldn't use after-market brake levers.If you maintain them,they do last.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Specialized? Cannondale? Trek? posted by JimW. on 10/29/2001 at 6:52:05 PM
I just gave the serial# another look, thinking I might have
mistaken a 7 for a 1. It's still a 1. I agree, I never heard of a U-brake that early. Maybe the 8 1 in the serial #
isn't the year of manufacture. The G P in the serial# is also strange. ( Gran Prix- not a Specialized model I ever heard of I'd think if the bike was a Stump Jumper the letters would be S J. Maybe none of it means anything? I did
E-mail Specialized, asking about it, but have had no answer back. The bike is in its original paint (red) and the traces of ancient decals are still in place. The only part of the decals remaining are the lower tail of the S, but that part seems to match the Specialized logos I'm familiar with. It looks like it was yellow letters on a cyan blue background. The component group looks fairly typical: Sugino, Dia-Compe/Araya 26 X 1.5 rims. Handlebars are steel, swept-back MTB pattern, with a 2" rise. Looks like original equipment to me.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Specialized? Cannondale? Trek? posted by JimW. on 11/1/2001 at 11:58:41 PM
I heard back from Specialized. Based on the serial# it's an
'88-or-9 Rockhopper or HardRock. I sent them more details as to the componentry, so I may be able to narrow it down further. Sure doesn't look that recent, but that would explain the U-brake.

   Trash-Picked Specialized posted by JimW. on 11/9/2001 at 7:20:05 PM
I got the full info on the old Specialized. It's an '89 Hard Rock. In that year, the only variants with rear U-Brake
were 15" frame, and women's frames. It looks like I'll be able to get it back in operation, after all. If anybody has a picture from an '89 MTB magazine, I'd appreciate seeing it.

FOR SALE:   CLASSIC 1987 FAT CHANCE posted by: Michael on 7/9/2001 at 6:25:46 PM
1987 FAT CHANCE (19”)-Own a classic! Made in Somerville MA, mint condition, Red w/clear-coated decals, many unique components including: Original “box crown” Fat City Fork + Rock Shox-Judy DH fork (1995), brazed on pump peg and chain hanger, matching Cook Bros Cranks and Stem (black), Deore XT drive train, Suntour XC Roller-Cam Brakes, Phil Wood hubs, Mavic rims…Serious inquiries only! Contact: mfarkasnyc@aol.com for photos.

MISC:   mantis pro floater posted by: garyb on 7/3/2001 at 8:11:49 PM
does anyone know anything about the mantis profloater?what it looked like? all i know is that richard cunningham designed it, i think.

   RE:MISC:   mantis pro floater posted by Martin on 8/14/2001 at 1:59:49 PM
I can provide some specific info if you need, email me.

MISC:   Rigidity posted by: Oscar on 6/19/2001 at 7:51:41 AM
I saw a small article in Bicycling Magazine about what to look for in a used mountainbike. The mag said to stay away from a bike that's more than 5 years old because the suspension fork would probably be shot. Parts for older forks are not available.

Well, that's why I ride rigid. There's no reason to invest serious money into a fork if you're not going to get 5 years out of it. Top of the line forks are $500. Middle-market forks are $300. I can't throw around that kind of money to go boing.

   RE:MISC:   Rigidity posted by JOEL on 6/21/2001 at 12:33:26 PM
Yep, mountain biking is expensive. I go through a drivetrain and set of rims about every 1.5 year and they get pricier every time. Shocks have gotten a lot better but they still don't last. Lightweight materials and dirt just don't mix.

But I have to say that my riding improved immediately after I got my first shock. (It was more related to being able to see and grip the handlebar than to the performance of the bike). As my friends move up to full suspension I see that they are able to ride faster than before.

   planned obsolescence posted by John E on 6/21/2001 at 3:01:00 PM
> Parts for older forks are not available.

Neither are parts for most older Shimano drivetrains. My resentment of planned obsolescence will keep me riding the old classics as long as possible. Are rear suspension parts available for 5-year-old dualie frames, or do they need to be scrapped, as well?

I still think those of us who ride tame, nontechnical multitrack trails nonaggressively do not really need suspension, particularly for the rear wheel.

   RE:planned obsolescence posted by Oscar on 6/21/2001 at 6:30:36 PM
I concede that suspension is helpful for speed and alleviating body stress. I just don't need that monkey on my back. I do ok racing cross country without it, but of course I never place first. (Still never came in last, either. I usually finish in the top third, thankyouverymuch.)

The first time I rode a bike with a suspension fork was also the first time I used v brakes. I heard that v brakes had unbelievable stopping power, but I was astonished. I hit the front brake and I pitched forward. The fork also compressed, and my injured knee didn't hold the rest of myself up. I hit the ground before I was to the end of my brother-in-law's driveway. I should be embarassed.

   RE:RE:planned obsolescence posted by JOEL on 6/22/2001 at 9:45:31 AM
I agree that parts should be made avalable for at least longer than 5 years. I would still be using 6 speed thumb shifters if they were still around. And another gripe I have is that there are WAAY too many sizes of seatposts, bottom brackets,... These things should be standardized.

And I didn't mean to imply that everyone should have shocks on their bikes. Only that they improved my riding. I enjoy riding steep, rocky, fast technical trails with jumps and dropoffs. The shocks keep me from beating myself to death.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Rigidity posted by Josef on 10/28/2001 at 11:43:25 AM
I can still outgun hardtails and duelies on both of my steel rigids on the trails.Maybe it's just me.Anyway,this was the way I started mountain biking,and I'm not complaining now.I own a hardtail too and it's cool and shocks are a great innovation.It's a shame I can't pick up a new Psylo with a 1" threadless steerer.
I laugh when I read that mountain bikes of today are a great value compared to the old MBTs back then.$4000.00 for a bike?!.I can't wait to see a $3999.00 Alivio equipped duelie.

WANTED:   Seeking a more modern beater MTB posted by: Carlos on 6/8/2001 at 3:43:45 PM
I need something with suspension front and rear. To spare my
old-school rides, and my derierre. In the NYC area is best.
Anybody got a reasonable deal?