This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Musclebikes (Sting-Rays, Krates, Choppers, etc.)

MISC:    posted by: paul on 11/20/2001 at 1:08:44 AM
i was gave a schwinn deluxe stingray to me i dont know how to tell how old it is. it is in real good condation. it is a three speed.it is a campus green. i dont know where the serial numbers would be at on it can someone please help me.

   RE:MISC:    posted by Kevin C. on 11/20/2001 at 12:27:58 PM
Look on the frame back where the back wheel attaches, then look up the serial number on the chart posted here.

AGE / VALUE:   '74 Schwinn Lemon Peeler posted by: Jacques on 11/19/2001 at 8:21:59 PM
I have a 1974 Schwinn Lemon Peeler that I received as a child. It was ridden for one year and then stored. It has all original parts but was painted yellow. Any ideas on what it's worth? I'd like to sell it but have no clue what to ask.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   '74 Schwinn Lemon Peeler posted by Jym on 11/23/2001 at 4:08:23 PM
Price always depends on condition, but be sure to DO YOUR RESEARCH. That is a "Krate" bike and they can go for a thousand bux!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   '74 Schwinn Lemon Peeler posted by sambo on 12/6/2001 at 2:20:42 AM
Just keep it! (u know, once u get rid of it, your going to kick yourself in the ass) It doesn't take up much room at all to store.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   '74 Schwinn Lemon Peeler posted by rich on 12/26/2001 at 6:51:23 PM
Actually '73 was the last year of the Krates, including the Lemon Peeler. You can check the year of manufacture by checking the 2nd digit of the VIN, located either at the left rear dropout or on the headset just above the lower cup. Krates were made from '68 to '73 which would correspond to the letter "D" through "J" in that second position (letter "I" is skipped over). Good luck. I'm curious what year that bike is actually from.

FOR SALE:   Raleigh chopper/speedwell fireball posted by: Ryan on 11/19/2001 at 7:52:07 AM
i have a speedwell fireball (rebadged raleigh chopper) for sale in Australia. it is a 3spd mk1 and in very good nic. wanting $500

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh chopper/speedwell fireball posted by Catfood Rob on 11/28/2001 at 12:35:10 AM
Hay, any chance of a picture of it for my collection of Raleigh chopper oddities?????

WANTED:   Schwinn Stingray Speedometer Parts posted by: Dean on 11/19/2001 at 2:10:08 AM
Hi, i'm looking for a speedometer clamp and 19" speedometer cable for a schwinn stingray speedometer. If you have anything or have any idea where i can find these let me know

AGE / VALUE:   silver manta ray posted by: anita on 11/18/2001 at 11:03:00 PM
Considering some of the discussions I've just read--this might be a tricky question but I'll forge ahead. I woudl like to know the value or a silver manta ray. Let's say in medium shape
What would you consider a great price for buying a manta ray at a garage sale and then let's say what would you consider a great price to be to sell that same manta ray that was originally
a bargain? Please help. Thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   silver manta ray posted by sambo on 11/19/2001 at 1:32:26 AM
Ebay is selling them anywhere from, (from what I can see) $300.-900. If it is in need of some "TLC" but still ALL original, I would say (now, this is only my opinion), $350. plus. I own a 72 that I'm restoring and I check ebay just to see what they are going for and the most that I saw at one time was $900. but this thing was beautiful! I went to Larz Anderson (bike show)in Brookline, MA. this past summer and as soon as I got there, someone bought an orange one for $350. (w/o the disc brake). Condition was fine. As far as a garage sale item, I would say if the person had no idea what they had I would keep my mouth shut and pick it up! (Keep the bike!!) Again, this is only my opinion.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   silver manta ray posted by Rich on 12/4/2001 at 5:06:14 PM
Wow, small world! I was the one that bought that Manta Ray at Brookline - for $325 actually. I feel like I got a good deal. It's an orange '72 in very good original condition - certainly a "keeper". I feel that ones in this condition should fetch $500-600 on e-bay. Just my opinion from past experience.

MISC:   Odd bikes posted by: Frank on 11/18/2001 at 2:59:09 PM
I am a schwinn guy.. I have a few bikes of other makes but all my bikes are riders. I have strayed a little with a columbia play bike(cheap peice of crap but i like it)with the two peice handle bars in the fork tube. they are a little too rusty to rechrome and the nylon neck bushings are broken as well.I would like to get some new ones.

but most of all I live in Oklahoma and there isnt much in the way of east coast bikes around here. I want a Ross Apollo fork and frame. When i was younger i had a 5 speed that i bought for 10.00 at a police auction. what a blast i had with this muscle bike when everyone else had BMX style bikes. My ross was a landmark in my car dreams. with the consold shifter and the racing slick. the sissy bar and the racing seat.
We didnt have much money back then but that bike was a prize
once new tires, handlebar grips and black paint was added.
I passed up a stringer fork Huffy for the Ross.


   RE:MISC:   Odd bikes posted by christian on 11/20/2001 at 7:05:39 PM
still looking for a ross apollo fork and frame? gimme an email. i think i still have one.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Odd bikes posted by Frank on 12/3/2001 at 3:39:14 AM
I'm still in the market for a Ross Frame, fork or parts.


MISC:   Fenders? posted by: sambo883 on 11/17/2001 at 2:10:17 AM
I'm on the hunt for fenders (rear) for a 1974 Jr. Sting Ray. Can anyone tell me if I'm looking for the "razor" type or the "full" wrap around fender? Basically, which ones did the 74 have? Thnx.,

   RE:MISC:   Fenders? posted by Gary M on 11/17/2001 at 7:46:25 AM
i saw a 74 Jr with full fenders and a long reflector on back
been wondering what goes on my 65 Jr for a long time. Nothing until i see a pic of one

   RE:RE:MISC:   Fenders? posted by sambo883 on 11/17/2001 at 2:43:24 PM
I saw on ebay (newly listed), I think it was a 66 Jr. (original) that had the razor style rear fender. That MAY be the type you need. I have a 75 Fair Lady w/ the full wrap around and long reflector. I just don't know what year they changed the style. I guess we're in the same boat...????? Anyone else?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Fenders? posted by Jim on 11/17/2001 at 3:46:50 PM
I think the razor edge fenders ended around 1969

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Fenders? posted by sambo on 11/19/2001 at 11:09:38 PM
My 72 Manta Ray has the (rear) razor fender, so I don't think they changed over in 69.

AGE / VALUE:   Huffy Mini Twin stingray ? posted by: Ralph on 11/15/2001 at 3:10:37 AM
Does anynoe know anything about a Huffy mini twin. I Picked one up for my little girls for Christmas and have never seen one before.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Huffy Mini Twin stingray ? posted by Stacey on 11/15/2001 at 6:56:47 PM
If I'm deciphering the name correctly Ralph, my mental picture says this must be one cool bike! Am I correct in my interpertation that this is say a 20" Tandem with Hi-Rise Handlebars and Banana Seats? Do you have photos you can post... or maybe contribute to the photo archives? Your daughters should be the neighborhood envy with this! Kewl!

In the Wind,

MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by: Annette Duarte on 11/14/2001 at 5:34:19 PM
It seems to me that a lot of people come to this site to read and comment on
the rest of the messages on this board. However the purpose of this message
board is to help each other. Not belittle each other. Or to put each other
down. If you have a derogatory comment or an unpleaseant comment keep it to
yourself or email it directly to the author. Don't waste everyone's time with
your constant banter about what bike's are better or who's responses and
reply's should or shouldn't be here. If you need help or can offer help to
new beginners then great. Otherwise stay off the board and mind your own
There are a lot of beginners and first timers who just want assistance or help
and decide to look elsewhere because they are afraid of the negativity they
have seen.
As to value and worth of bicycles. A bicycle is only worth what someone is
willing to pay for it. No more and no less. So if you have a bike and the
best offer you can get or have gotten is $20 then that's all it's worth. But
then again if you get an offer for $500 then that is what it's worth.
Schwinn, Raleigh, Huffy, Columbia, etc. They are all the same when it gets
down to it. Pieces of steel, aluminum, and other misc. metals cast and formed
to be riedable pieces of machinery.
So please take your attitudes and banter somewhere else. We don't want it and
we don't need it.
Also for those of you who feel it's neccessary to correct grammar and english, this is a forum not an english/lit. class. We don't need your corrections or comments.

   RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by jj on 11/15/2001 at 1:23:46 PM

   RE:RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by Johnny O~Hara on 11/15/2001 at 6:03:41 PM
I disagree. Anybody can get $20 for an original Black Phantom, but that does not mean it is "worth" only $20. If you intend to get full value, do research and get in touch with collectors willing to pay full value. Never expect a potential buyer to tell you what something is "worth." It's human nature to pay as little as humanly possible.

   RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by Stacey on 11/15/2001 at 7:25:13 PM
You're entirely correct Johnny, anyone can get $20 for an original Black Phantom. But a complacent or uninformed seller or one who needs to liquidate quickly generaly will not take the time to wring every dime out of their merchandise. So, to support and expand on Annette's statement... If all you can get for a particular item at any particular time from any particular person is $20.00 then at that particular moment that particular item is indeed worth $20.00. I'll grant you the person that bought it for $20.00 will probably have a buyer on the hook that will pay them 10 times that amount, but that's an entitely different transaction. :-)

In the Wind,

   RE:RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by jimmy on 11/16/2001 at 2:49:03 AM
i paid 25.00 for my phantom last year at a garage sale and the guy said he had another old bike and i bought a 68 apple krate 10.00 last week i bought a pile of crap for 10.00 and got me a grey ghost i've paid 20.00 for 63 stingray 20.00 for a deluxe hornet ect ect.... and then people have the nerve to call you dumpster diver,barn picker,and countless other names.but when you go to swap meets they're your buddy thinking your gonna strike a deal with them.(wrong) stingray collectors are the most arrogant butt munches i have ever came across sure there are a few of them that are nice but are out weighted by the a$$holes the grey ghost was in rough shape but i repainted it and fixed it up real nice now if i had posted a pic of it the way i found it then i would've got laughed at but deep down they where wishing it was them who found it.

   RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by todjob on 11/16/2001 at 10:06:38 AM
ya know what? Ive decided to agree with Anette from now on i promise to try to not to frustrate anyone its the little anons that start it anyway and if thier not mature enough to put an email address behind what they say then its not worth replying to so say all you want about me now anon I'm not replying to any of it if its not a real email.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by todjob on 11/16/2001 at 10:18:28 AM
yeah isnt that funny like they wouldent if it was on the side of the road ooooo a schwinn krate! OOPs it's in the trash never mind,never find one in the trash? wrong not everbody knows what one is worth I got a blue 70 earlier this that had been sitting under a pine tree in the back yard it had been there since his kid left for collage in 89, was the guy a yokel? no he's a lawyer drives a big lexus ect. ect.the guy was cleaning up his yard and out it went.

   RE:RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by Guido on 11/17/2001 at 8:31:13 PM
Good deal Todd. This is after all, one of the last places that the anon types who are so opinionated while hiding, can get away with it. Their voice on Schwinn is a 5 min. voice. The Bicycle Billboard is still under the grip of the pop up ads and no one has been going there since the last time the anon`s came to visit. The CMBForum won`t work either because they`ve all had to register and can be ID`d. And they won`t show up at the SSGG board because they know they won`t be tolerated even once. To sum it up, Oldroads is sort of a shoe in for them, and that`s why they are here so much more now than they were before. It`s a matter of convienience for them. Oldroads doesn`t deserve the trouble they have yet to cause and I hope they quit before they ruin this site too. Annette and Stacey seem to be saying the things we have all tried to say in the past. Of course we aren`t as articulate as they are and don`t get things across very well at times, but it all sounds like "Have Fun -Ride Hard- Play nice" to me. And that has a good vibe to it. Just my opinion, I`m sure I`ll get slammed for it.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by You are right on 11/19/2001 at 7:12:24 AM
Keep defending turdjob Todd and you will keep getting slammed. He's a pestilance on the bike society. The worst of the anon's, but because he's your buddy it's ok.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   People's opinions and ideas posted by Remember? on 11/19/2001 at 7:21:38 AM
schwinn nerd (todjob) would still be an anon if the alert readers of bike forums had not smoked him out of his hole. Oh, but he's your friend so he doesn't count.

MISC:   Being positive post posted by: Andrew on 11/12/2001 at 10:54:04 PM
I'm a Stingray person, 1963. There is glut of information on Schwinn's muscle bikes. I would like to learn more about the early ones produced at the dawn of the high-rise craze, the bikes of 1963-64. Who led the pack of the non-Schwinn's. I did not think I'd want a Huffy or a Columbia but this Huffy Penguine of pre-Stingray vintage sure would be head turner no matter what your brand is! I'm a Stingray guy (since 1966) but I'm always willing to learn. Let's hear about the early...early muscle.

   RE:MISC:   Being positive post posted by Andrew on 11/16/2001 at 1:03:47 PM
To bad no one has any info on the early bikes! they are the ones that started a revolution, the most successful style of bike ever to hit the road. Having one of these at a bike show with knowledge of what it is would draw a lot of attention!

MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by: Stacey on 11/12/2001 at 9:52:02 PM
I am deeply troubled by the fact that I feel compelled to pen this missive. I've been visiting OldRoads.com for a bit over two months now. About the same time I found this site, I had also found another which offered a bulletin board for sharing Bikes, Parts, Ideas & Information. This site was Schwinn.com. After spending about a half an hour scanning each of the boards it was readily apparent at which I'd spend my Web surfing time. Clearly, OldRaods.com hands down. Thank you Vin for being here!

Lately, it seems as though this too was an un-wise choice. Almost daily the level of intelligence and respect for others dips to a new all time low. I'm not going to mention names and willfully embarrass anyone... You know who you are! But, I will say this; I find it very frustrating to pull up this site and read post after post of over inflated ego's and under inflated tolerance.

Who cares if someone finds it more comfortable to put Schwinn grips on a Raleigh? What would it hurt NOT to lambaste someone for asking a simple question about the English "Roadster" that they just found? It may be crap to you. But hey! It's gold to them. So what, it's not a StingRay or a Krate... It's theirs and that's what important. Why, Oh Why would someone feel the need to waste the time and effort to put up a bogus post about buying StingRay #3 at a yard sale for $10.00, only to fictitiously "reply" to it with an equally bogus post "validating" said "find"? Someone even felt the need to try to pull a "one up" on me with my "In the wind" sign off. This is beyond all comprehension people.

When I first came to OldRoads.com it felt warm, comfortable, and friendly. Honest questions met with honest, factual answers. There was a certain esprit de corps, a camaraderie, and a brother (sister) hood of kindred folks who have one basic concept in common... Bicycles! Some of us collect them, some ride them for pleasure, others for basic transportation, some of us deal in them stock & trade, some of us even rescue them from a certain demise at the crusher only to offer them a second chance at life by stripping them of their shiny things and cutting apart their skeletons to breathe life into new creations... Frankenbikes if you will. All of that, all of our particular special interests aside we share one thing, BICYCLES! We are all "In the Wind". Now, now it feels as though these boards have become a venting ground for the mis-directed angers of masculine inadequacey and erectile dysfunction. Hostilities abound, blatant and senseless "willie wagging" in order to sure up those fragile ego's. Please stop! Stop it now. Stop the willie-wagging and infighting. No one wants to read your vile spleen venting anger and all your hostilities will do is drive other decent folks away!

You self-aggrandizing purists would just die to see my daily rider. To save you all the trip to Northwestern Bucks County, PA, I'll tell you about it. It started life as a Raleigh Capri, a 10 speed Road bike, lugged steel framed of unknown composition, What does it matter? It feels good riding it! Gone are all of the low end componentry and replaced with pieces I like. Why? Because it's my bike and this is what I like. Off with the "7" shaped steering neck and replaced it with a more upright stem from a DiamondBack comfort bike. Gone are the Drop-Down handle bars. Replaced with a pair of "Roadster" type bars installed upside down with the grips angled downward in the back. Why? You guessed it... It's mine. I like it this way! Oh, I've got a great imagination. Try it you'll like it! Brake levers are from the same DiamondBack... ProMax units that originally pulled V-Brakes. Why am I going through all of this trouble to tell you about it? Yep, It's mine and I'm proud of it! I could care less that you are disgusted by my bastardization. I don't criticize your bike, please grant me (and all of the other kinder gentler people that visit here) the same courtesy!

In the Wind,

   TODJOB = SCHWINN NERD posted by THE TRUTH ABOUT TODD on 11/15/2001 at 12:13:09 AM
'nuff said.

   RE:MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by todjob on 11/13/2001 at 1:21:32 PM
Thank you Stacy I've benn trying to relay that on boards for a long time but to some people if it isnt exactly as it came from the factory or what THEY collect its junk and thats wrong and Im a very hate person to people who want to will thier way on others because i wont put up with it its your bike do waht you want to with it and tell all the "be like mes" to get lost!

MISC:   New to the hobby, what is the deal with Craig Morrow aka bikeheaven@peoplepc.com? posted by: Jacob on 11/12/2001 at 4:39:27 PM
New to the hobby, what is the deal with Craig Morrow aka bikeheaven@peoplepc.com? Has lots of stuff, his feedback is a little off. Has anyone dealt with him?

   RE:MISC:   New to the hobby, what is the deal with Craig Morrow aka bikeheaven@peoplepc.com? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/12/2001 at 7:45:32 PM
No problem with Craig Morrow, not in my book.

   RE:MISC:   New to the hobby, what is the deal with Craig Morrow aka bikeheaven@peoplepc.com? posted by Guido on 11/17/2001 at 7:47:01 PM
Craig Morrow is a pretty good guy. He doesn`t spell so well, he at times describes parts poorly or they don`t apear to be Exactly what the description says, but if a guy knows what he`s looking at and knows what it`s worth and doesn`t need to recieve it yesterday, then Craig is an o.k. guy. I`ve bought parts from him more than once and even yacked on the phone a few times. He`s got a huge shop and a ton of stuff to sell. Just my opinion, I`m sure I`ll be corrected.

   RE:RE:MISC:   New to the hobby, what is the deal with Craig Morrow aka bikeheaven@peoplepc.com? posted by Consider yourself corrected on 11/19/2001 at 7:17:02 AM
I'm glad to hear that it is now OK to deceptively describe things for sale. It's so much easier to rip people off that way.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   New to the hobby, what is the deal with Craig Morrow aka bikeheaven@peoplepc.com? posted by Dave on 1/23/2002 at 10:15:19 AM
The guy is an illeterate moron that took my money and didn't deliver parts I paid for. A real jerk off that hides behind his legal threats.

MISC:   Columbia 5-speed muscle bike posted by: Neil on 11/12/2001 at 2:58:02 PM
I bought a new Columbia bike in 69 or 70. It was a 20 inch muscle bike that resembled a Schwinn Krate. It was a 5-speed, candy yellow into candy green fade, dark gray metal flake banana seat, long chrome front forks with a 16" drum brake front wheel, rear slick. The seat was shaped a little differently as well as the ape hangers. I ordered it from a Columbia bike catalog. It was available in a 3-speed option also, but the 5-speed only came in the yellow/green combo. It was a neater looking bike than the Krate and that is why I chose it.I have been trying to find any info on this bike and would like to find one to buy. I would appreciate any sources you may have.

AGE / VALUE:   BICYCLE SWAP MEET NOVEMBER 18TH posted by: Joe on 11/11/2001 at 3:14:08 AM

AGE / VALUE:   COLUMBIA vs STINGRAY posted by: tom wright on 11/10/2001 at 2:38:40 PM
i just decided to build a lowrider bike and purchased a functional 'stingray-like' bike from a friend's father. by checking the serial number, i found that it is actually a 68 Columbia or so i believe. i was wondering what the value of Columbia's in comparison to the Schwinn's are. Can anyone help me out.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   COLUMBIA vs STINGRAY posted by Dan on 11/10/2001 at 8:50:35 PM
If you are going to build a lowrider use any frame will do. There will be no extra value in using a Schwinn because it will be modified. I would use what you already have, But that's just my opinion. Have fun:)