This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Musclebikes (Sting-Rays, Krates, Choppers, etc.)

AGE / VALUE:   Slaine Ann Arbor taken over by Sting Rays posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/28/2002 at 8:57:22 PM
Good Heavens! It was a Sting Ray Invaision today at Saline Ann Arbor! They were EVERYWHERE! Slicks, derailers and parts! Off brand Muscle bikes too. Only four Raleigh Choppers. There was a guy with Mongoose bikes and a bit more Lowriders than usual. Rod brake English roadsters were kinds scarce. One fellow was there with some as usual but they were not brought to the meet so much this year. I missed seeing them. It was unbelievable, Sting Rays took over. They were being ridden around everyplace. cloudy, rainy, a little mud. Still an excellent turnout as good or better still than last year!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Slaine Ann Arbor taken over by Sting Rays posted by Chris on 4/28/2002 at 9:04:21 PM
Same great varied show as usual, just a million Rays!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Saline Ann Arbor taken over by Sting Rays posted by Chris on 4/29/2002 at 8:09:21 PM
That's Saline- Ann Arbor! Sorry

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Saline Ann Arbor taken over by Sting Rays posted by Gary M on 4/30/2002 at 12:22:10 AM
did you see my bikes? green GMC with 40 bikes on the side, 36 Elgin in front, some muscle bikes, a few mongoose, mostly 1 3/4 stuff

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Saline Ann Arbor taken over by Sting Rays posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/30/2002 at 12:47:03 AM
Yes, I think I did! It's a wonderful show isn't it!

AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by: larry on 4/28/2002 at 3:19:14 AM
i bought an old stingray at an auction today the serial# is g326062 can you tell me the year and were i can get a seat and tires. for the bike. i have been told it was a 631/2 is that true. what might it be worth. thanks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by butnut on 4/28/2002 at 5:15:06 AM
The 3 indicates a '63 vintage. Great score! The value depends on the condition of the paint and completeness of original parts. It should have the unusual chrome head bearing race, squared sissy bar, wide handlebars, white chubbie grips, block pedals...the solo polo you seek my be hard to find. Repop knobby and Westwind front may be easier to find. Give Pete at Hyperformance Rays a call. He may have some early parts or know of someone. Ebay's a long shot, prices get crazy at times and unless you have a clue who you buy from, could be sketchy. Good luck. I'll bet you got a Lime color Ray? Drool....

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by larry on 4/28/2002 at 1:17:43 PM
HI butnut the bike is coppertone it looks like the back wheel has got a s2 and the front one is s7 would that be right. it does have the wide handle bars and the squarded seatbar.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by Larry on 4/29/2002 at 2:48:26 PM
Hi Kim i need a seat and tires do they repo. any of these item for the 63 stingray and where can i find them. thanks. for all the help.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by butnut on 4/28/2002 at 8:26:53 PM
Yes that's correct. Also, because your's is the 'early' new born Ray, you should have 32 spokes on your rear S2. Coppertone is sweet too. I got a Typhoon and Lil Tiger in that color. Sounds like you just got into the hobby. Do get Liz Frieds Schwinn Sting Ray book (for sale on ebay..one of my bikes is on page 36...the 70 Ray) and of course The Collectible Sting Ray...sold here. Both are must haves for any Sting Ray fan. Is your bike in good shape?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by stingRAY on 4/28/2002 at 9:06:22 PM
36 spokes dude.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by butnut on 4/28/2002 at 10:33:01 PM
DOUH!...my bad. Thanks stingRay.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by kim on 4/28/2002 at 11:23:59 PM
Your rear square back sissybar should be a non crimped style,they changed to crimped in 64. Also if you need more help let me know- I have 5 63's so I have alot of parts


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn stingray posted by EBAY on 4/28/2002 at 11:54:45 PM
search schwinncol, and yo jimmy! you must be mike's little brother. or his printer.

AGE / VALUE:   western flyer buzz bike with banana Western Flyer Buzz Bike posted by: Tim on 4/28/2002 at 12:29:59 AM
I am tryin to find out the the age of a Stingray style bike that is violet in color.It was made by Western Auto and is called the Buzz.The serial # is A593089.It is a beautiful bike in excellent condition.What is its value also
Thanks Tim

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   western flyer buzz bike with banana Western Flyer Buzz Bike posted by Kurt on 5/3/2002 at 7:44:29 PM
I am not sure there is a huge market for the Western Buzz bikes. I buy them off of ebay for $50 or less for decent ones. I am not saying that is the real value since I am no bike expert, but figured I would add my .02 since nobody replied.

WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by: Mole on 4/27/2002 at 1:54:57 PM
how fast can you make them schwinncol mike smith? how much of the sales $ do you share with the author/editor of them jim rohn? how do you sleep at night sticking your nose in everyone elses business, ladonna, narcing people out to ebay and schwinn thinking your the hobby policeman yet you profit off rohn's work.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Catfood Rob on 4/27/2002 at 5:29:42 PM
Isnt it about time Oldroads did something about morons like the"mole"? People like him ruin our hobby, IF YOU CANT LEAVE A PROPER NAME `N E-MAIL, DONT LEAVE A POSTING.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by mole on 4/27/2002 at 8:27:12 PM
im not confusing names. mike smith is schwinncol, mike smith is selling bad photocopies of stingray city news on ebay every week without the permission of jim rohn who published the originals that mike smith is copying. not mark smith, not mark anybody, i never mentioned a mark. its mike smith. and its wrong to make a buck off another persons work. mike smith was sure upset when ladonna tried to make a buck off hunt wildes valve caps.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Bob on 4/27/2002 at 8:54:41 PM
With or without an email address, this guy has a valid point. What say you, mike?

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc. at OldRoads.com on 4/29/2002 at 12:46:17 PM

There are a number of places on the web right now where our copywritten pages (including typos!) have been cut-and-pasted on sites without our copyright notice or a credit, so this is an important issue to us.

US Copyright law says written works are protected for 70 years.
We're not lawyers but we do know there are "implied" copyright laws, too.
We are letting the "Sting-Ray City News" discussion stand, but please keep your comments clean (no swears or disguised swears)

Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Drew on 4/27/2002 at 11:03:06 PM
I'd like to know the statute of limitations on the copyrighted material, some printed material is only protected for one or two years. This guy may just be capitalizing on a good idea! Millions of photos of movie actors are reprinted and sold every day, such as one's of my father (Sterling Hayden; Dr. Strangelove, The Godfather, 9 to 5, ect.) If this person's photo copies are legal, let it be!

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by butnut on 4/28/2002 at 6:30:29 AM
Is SRCN still being published? It was my bible years back when I was totally into it. I still have 'em all. I stopped my subscription years ago. I talked to the guy who originated it,,,I believe he gave or sold it to Jim. Met lots of very kool people through SRCN. I agree with ya WOW. Sheesh. Just checked ebay...no SCRN fer sale...

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Catfood Rob on 4/28/2002 at 10:26:58 AM
If your a Stingray collector...how do you get Stingray news ? Its not published anymore..and originals are hard to find.. So M.Smith is providing a public service to the new collectors.
Never hear the original authors complaining do you? I wonder why????????????

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Another WOW! on 4/28/2002 at 1:54:25 PM
mike would be providing a service to new collectors if he offered to make copies for anyone who needed them - free. but mike never offers to help out anyone for free. think about it the next time you get ready to bitch about the people selling parts you need on ebay for crazy money. mikes no better.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Jimmy on 4/28/2002 at 5:17:57 PM
JUST TYPE IN SCHWINN NEWS ON EBAY AND THEY WILL COME UP!I DONT THINK THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT SINCE HE BOUGHT THE COPYRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by HORSEHOOEY! on 4/28/2002 at 5:48:26 PM
Sure he did....................................

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Mike~s Local Kinko on 4/28/2002 at 5:57:02 PM
thanks for pointing out schwinncol's busy photocopying business on ebay. seems he dosent only sell stingray city news copies but copies of whamo wheelie bar instructions. and as a bonus he sells copies of guido's FREE schwinn copyrighted service manual cd's. nice of mike to turn a buck on guido's generosity toward ssgg members. wonder if schwinn knows about this latest property theft? i bet he wouldnt get all the news in advance from schwinn insiders if they knew he was selling copies of their manuals.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by butnut on 4/28/2002 at 10:38:34 PM
Went to Ebay...searched Schwinn News...got...NOTHING!!!...what did YOU get?

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Jimmy on 4/28/2002 at 11:19:53 PM
hey,if your not related to him, a friend of him, what does it matter to you??????????????????????

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by EBAY on 4/28/2002 at 11:58:27 PM
search schwinncol. and yo jimmy! mike is notorious for contacting Ebay to have other people's auctions cancelled if they use keywords he dosent like. time to show the pot calling the keddle black.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Guido on 4/29/2002 at 6:53:43 AM
Ya, it took me quite a long time to scan those 900 odd pages. The Schwinn Dealer Service Manual was Copyrighted like 30 years ago, I believe it`s up for grabs as far as copying. Also, Mike asked me about selling the CD and I said NO ! So he stopped selling them. I did however tell him that if they are free, then go ahead and make more and give them away free. Also, the Manual CD`s were not just for the SSGG members, it just started there. I burned them, labeled them and shipped them for free and I only asked that if they had access to a burner, to make copies for others and newbies for the same price, FREE. I have sent one or two to the U.K. and one to Canada as well. I hope it gets around, and I hope it stays free. On the SRCN, I don`t have all the facts, so I can`t make a call one way or the other, but right is right and wrong is wrong, that`s why my Manual CD`s are free. I sleep fine.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by X-man on 4/29/2002 at 3:20:41 PM
your work is being sold for profit my friend Guido. when Mike offers it as a "bonus" to his otherr auctions it is a thin disguise. think about it. if i offer a set of pedals on Ebay, and as a "bonus" you also get this excellent condition 1964 stingray, i'm going to get $2000 for those pedals. was the stingray really free? its a scam to make money off your hard work, plain and simple. the latest in a long line from schwinncol.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by ANON on 4/29/2002 at 4:54:57 PM
I think we should hear from the accused. Or is silence a form of consent?

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Good luck! on 4/29/2002 at 5:20:47 PM
your not gonna hear from schwinncol mike he likes to work in the shadows bet he already contacted vin to get this string deleted vin left it up good for him when guido realizes he got burned just like jim rohn and al fritz so mike can make a few bucks fake friendships beware he only wants your stuff so he can flip it for profit.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by good guy on 4/29/2002 at 9:57:19 PM
KICK SCHWINNCOL OUT OF THE SSGG!!!! ANOTHER GOOD GUY GONE BAD! The Mole is annoying, but harmless, and sometimes funny. Mike took advantage of Guido's good nature to make a couple bucks. He's the 1st and ONLY person to sell Guido's CDs. What a snake.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Jimmy on 4/30/2002 at 1:57:34 AM

   True, it might be. posted by Guido on 4/30/2002 at 2:38:36 AM
But I haven`t checked out the selling prices of the SRCN auctions and compared the final bids against the auctions from before the cd`s. If it`s only like a rise of 2 3 or even 4 bucks more that the bid goes up because of the bonus material, then has he really made a profit ? They cost me about $5. each to make including the cd and case, label and shipping for two cd`s. Just my time is left in the balance and my time ain`t worth jack anyway lol. He asked me about selling them on ebay and then just giving them away for free to the high bidder as a way to get the Manuals out there to people. I said NO! not if it is the only item in the auction, no way ! But I did tell him that if he just offered them as a bonus to the SRCN, then they would still get out to people that could use them and for the right price too. FREE. I figure if the SRCN sells for $3. to $5. more now, then at least it pays for the two cd`s with cases and labels it takes to make them. Thin disguise is a good match for thin profits. As long as the cd`s are free and NOT the item on auction for sale, I can`t complain much, it wasn`t MY material anyway, I just scanned it for all to use, which is probably alot worse than what the Mole is saying Mike has done. If ya wanna split hairs, I`m the bad guy because I copied copyrighted material. Mike didn`t!
It`s not like the Mole is trying to put attention on Mike or anything, Mike is currently attempting to find out who he is and the Mole knows that when Mike starts working on anon identities, someone usually gets found out in the end. Kind of convenient isn`t it? That the SRCN and my illegal cd`s are being used against Mike. Hell, if selling photocopied material on Ebay,that was copyrighted, was bad, then how many would that describe ? MnSmith occasionally sells a copy of a Schwinn spoke chart, but he`s not a bad guy. What about the Schwinn date code lists on Ebay ? What about all the Whizzer photocopied stuff on Ebay, I`m surprised that Ebay lets people sell anything copyrighted that`s been photocopied OR scanned. If they didn`t, then there`s a ton of people who would be on that list. Not just Mike!
If the Mole had an email we could discuss the finer points of false friendshiip etc. but that`s not going to happen, so I guess you`ll just have to wonder where I stand.

   RE:True, it might be. posted by Stacey on 4/30/2002 at 5:51:00 PM
I find it amazing that this entire thread actually has to exist! It’s shameful that we, as enthusiast (be they collectors/restorers/riders/kustomizers/vendors or publicist) can’t allow the others their right to be. Someone always needs to start or maintain a conflagration of one kind or another. It’s not only shameful but despicable and down right embarrassing too.

Imagine if you will; A neophyte visitor, coming to these boards to seek information on their recent acquisition, whether its identification or advise. What would they think of us as a lot? I’ll tell you… They’d think that all bicycle enthusiast are narrow-minded, opinionated, mono-brow Neanderthals who care nothing for the other “guy” in this pastime. It would seem to this newbie as though the patrons of these boards are here only for they’re own self gratification.

First, “The Mole” whoever he/she is is a spineless miscreant who can only find pleasure in antagonizing others. Granted, an excellent question has been brought to light regarding the copyright issues of SRCN and the alleged profiteering from “Guido’s” benevolent efforts. However, the tactics are all wrong. Why didn’t “Mole” contact “Schwinncol” directly to have these questions answered? If there was no resolution “Mole” would have been entirely within ‘his’ rights to present a case to eBay’s SafeHarbor and then also alert the bicycling community in a non-anon manner of “Schwinncol’s” alleged mis-doings. Have the courage of your convictions man. If you believe in something strongly enough to make issue of it, the least you could do is have the scrotal fortitude to identify yourself to your peers.

Then there is “Albert”, who is a constant sore spot on the heel of innocent posters on the “English Roadster” boards. This terribly mis-guided person seems to never have anything nice to say about anybody or anything. His prohibitionist attitudes dominate any thread where there might be the slightest hint of alcohol… and even sometimes where there isn’t. Why can’t people like this just keep their rhetoric & prostilization to themselves. We’ve heard it once, and that is one time too many! Again, this is something to be addressed off the boards.

What is it with this kind of person? No matter where you go; message boards to newsgroups there is always someone out there who is always (in their mind) right, but (in reality) has no right. Some of you reading this might say I’m being hypocritical, that’s ok… you have that right. But the reality is all I’m doing is expressing my opinion and gently at that.

So, why don’t we all stop for a moment and have a good look at ourselves and our motives before we continue down this path of self annihilation? I believe if we continue on this path we’ll rapidly scare away all those who are eager to join out ranks and enjoy this wonderful past-time known as Bicycling!

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Because Stacey......... on 4/30/2002 at 7:49:35 PM
At some point people decide enough is enough. Copying of material without permission is rampant and unethical. Unauthorised reproduction of patented parts and accessories is rampant and unethical. Didn't you read Vin's post explaining why Oldroads was leaving this thread alone? Because Oldroads is tired of the plagarism, counterfeiting and profiteering too. Mike is offering for sale plagarised material. Whatever the reason, there is no justification. He's one of a crowd of people trying to sell copies of trademarked material, decals, Schwinn parts and accessories, t-shirts, hats, steering knobs. Its a lazy, screw you way to make money. If you are concerned about annihilation, you should be shouting from the mountaintops your rage about Mike's and others counterfeiting activities. But you aren't really concerned. If you need a decal for your next project you don't care if its real or counterfeit.

Funny how when it's a friend who's guilty of something everyone let's it pass. Guido and the Good Guys rant about the slimeballs who sell serial # lists on Ebay, but say nothing about a Good Guy selling SRCN copies. Oh its ok because Jim Rohn was a Bad Guy. So we can steal his property and sell it. Todjob's hatchet job on Schwinn last year is another good example. Oh its ok to try to crash the site because someone on the page insulted a friend f his.

If you're that concerned about the hobby, you write Mike a nice email letting him know you don't approve of his activities. And Todd too. The most useful resources we have in this hobby are provided by Schwinn and Oldroads. Todd tried to take down the Schwinn Forums and was applauded by most of the Good Guys. Oldroads has their web pages and information sections copied, reused and sold regularly and the Good Guys say well its ok because we need it. Guido copies an entire 2 volume Schwinn copyrighted repair manual and justifies it by saying the originals are too expensive for the regular joe to buy. And even Guido admits that Mike came to him wanting to sell them. Ebay is full of unauthorised reproductions of parts and the Good Guys say its all good because the originals are too expensive for us. It is the I need it, I want it, I deserve it at all costs attitude that ruins hobbies, not people trying to protect their work and investments.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Stacey on 4/30/2002 at 10:30:22 PM
It seems as though, my eloquitive friend, even though you make good point for your case, your comprehension of my ramblings has entirely escaped you. Had it not you would have had the testicular fortitude to post your name AND e-mail address while confronting me. Also, nowhere did I claim to support or condem the actions of "Schwinncol". Nor did I support or condem "Guido's actions.

Moreover, if you would have entirely grasped my meanings you would have e-mailed me directly and avoided embassasing yourself in front of the bicycling community at large. I respectfully submit that you go back and carefully re-read my missive. Please, take your time and digest what I said. Then, if you still have issue... e-mail me, or at least honor yourself enough to provide means for me to e-mail you, for I have already invested too much time and energy in chasing and confronting spineless phantoms. All future coments to me on this topic will either have an Name & e-mail address attached to them, or they will simply be ignored for the fecal effluence that they are.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Oh please Stacey on 4/30/2002 at 11:53:14 PM
Stop the crying about anonymous posts already. That's a cop out for when you don't like the message. I got your message. You want everyone to stop talking about it. But it's not your call to make, it's Vin's. And Vin has let us all clearly know that he wants the subject aired.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by ssgg member on 5/1/2002 at 3:32:59 PM
GUIDO: You cant blame the mole for identifying you as the cd copier. Mike himself identified you by name as the copier in his bonus descriptions on ebay. Search schwinncol's completed auctions and see for yourself! So your royally steamed, be steamed at Mike on this one.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Handy Helper on 5/1/2002 at 6:23:11 PM
schwinncol's Ebay item description:

First lets cover the bonus. I have cleared this with Brian "Guido" Crawford and he has given me the ok. The bonus for this auction is a 2 CD set of the 1969-1972 Schwinn Dealers Service Maunal. He has scanned all the information in the manuals and its on 2 cd's. This covers everything you need to know on how to take apart and repair your schwinn. Hubs, brakes, gears, stick shifts, bent forks, etc etc etc. I have used my hard cover manuals many times in retorations. Why get them dirty? Print out the pages you need and post them on the work bench. This is very useful information that you are getting as a bonus. Very Rare Find! You are bidding on COPY of the Stingray City News Bicycle Newsletter that was last printed in 1998. It was first printed in 1991. As you can see by the picture of the index they cover a lot of topics and have a lot of information. Including the infamous COAL KRATE and GRAPE KRATE, Highway Patrol Safety Grey gray Ghosts, exploded drawings of hubs and shifters, tire date codes, and also frames, what parts are oorect for what year bikes. This set of newsletters is better than the Liz Fried book as the information in the newsletters was taken from the Schwinn Service Manuals. You are bidding on a complete set of the newsletters. All 36 or so issues. There are 6 issues each year and 6 years of them. Buyer pays $3.95 priority mail shipping. International orders accepted but will pay what the post office charges me to ship and nothing more. I accecpt Cash, Money Orders, (postal money orders preferred as I cash em as I ship em), Personal Checks, (held to clear of course), also PAY PAL. Good luck to the highest bidder!

   I`ve made it crystal clear to Mike posted by Guido on 5/2/2002 at 5:04:49 AM
That I don`t want to see the CD sets on Ebay ever again and that If they are, it is at his own risk and should be distributed with a label like the one I put on it that clearly says "NOT FOR SALE". I was told previously that copyrights lasted 30 years, so I scanned the Manuals to give away free to people looking for information, not special people or people who bid highest, just average people looking for answers. And I also figured that if it went out like the "he sent it to two friends, and so on, and so on" that the old outdated service manual might get another chance at usefullness without me getting recognized for doing it or asking for any credit for doing it either. Keep in mind, this is when I thought it was 30 years of shelf life and I thought it was o.k. to scan. But now that I`m aware of copyrights lasting longer than that, I regret having scanned it at all, not to mention the recognition for doing it that I never wanted even when I thought it was legal to copy it. Makes me nervous for the guys that photocopy the Schwinn Dealer Parts Lists and Announcements of Postwar Design Changes, Or even the Whizzer Dealer Engine Overhaul Manual. If copyrights last 70 years, then ALL these people are breaking the law, WITH Ebay`s help! Go get `em Mole! They copy the copyrighted material for profit, pirating the text on Ebay. I copied to give away free and went through a stack of 50 cd`s with cases, 50 labels, printer ink, $2.50 shipping on each of 25 cd sets. WHAT WAS MY PROFIT ????? I spent a week and a half scanning over 900 pages, hours and hours burning the CD`s and about $100. cost out of my pocket to get info to people for free so they wouldn`t have to but from the piracy for profit guys on Ebay. My proffit = trying to do something cool and getting called a thief and a criminal or a lowlife scammer. How very special.

On OldRoads date codes, they were posted by an anon on Schwinn, I saved it from that post in order to repost again and again to reduce the number of "how old is my bike" posts, it worked o.k..
At that time I had no idea it came from OldRoads.
Then later I had a brief discussion on Schwinn with Vin and a couple others about the code sheet I was posting. Sure enough it originated from OldRoads, typo`s and all. It was then that I was told "oh well, as long as people get the info I guess it doesn`t matter where they get it from" and I figured it was o.k. to post it still. Guess not. I won`t be periodically posting Vin`s short date code list on Schwinn anymore, it`s his list and it`s apparently copyrighted material, so if the newbies want answers, they can hunt for them. I just thought it was much easier to post the info in the place where everyone is looking for the answers, badda bing badda boom and they`re off getting addicted to bikes lol. Oh well, I guess I`m just simple.

All I can say about the SRCN and Mike and Ebay is this:
I don`t get to Ebay at all so I don`t know what Mikes listing description says.
But I do know that if that post is acurate of his text, then I`m not a happy guy being named right in his auction description like that, that sucks large, Mike! I had told him I wanted anonymity (keep in mind I thought it was 30 years) and didn`t need or want ANY recognition. Go figure.

The Mole, The Mole doesn`t bother me any, he really bugged me at first, but I lost interest, sorry. I can say that most times he just comes off like a total weenie, but he occasionally makes good, valid points. He knows most everyone and will remember exactly what anyone and everyone says within a 2 year period. He`s retentive, he`s a major pain,he`s spineless and doesn`t want his opinions attached to his identity, but he`s a happy Mole and I`ve almost gotten used to having him around. ;-) But stop nibbling on the table legs and trying to dig through the floor, it causes damage, lol lol.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by JAFO on 5/2/2002 at 8:10:33 AM
There is one point that no one has mentioned. The words Schwinn, Stingray and many others are trademarked. Schwinn could come down on anyone who is using them for profit. I'm sure that Schwinn would not have an issue with people passing on useful not-for-profit information that would not only promote the brand but enhance the enjoyment of cycling and collecting.

I'm sure they no more about what is going on with their Trademarks and Copyrights then any of us. If they have an issue with what’s going on, then they will deal with it.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Here you go Guido the link to schwinncol auctions on 5/2/2002 at 2:58:23 PM
mike's copy machine has been busy.





   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Drumbeat of Rage on 5/3/2002 at 1:46:52 AM

   Ya, o.k. 4 items in a month and next to nothing in profit. posted by Guido on 5/3/2002 at 3:47:46 AM
You need to compare what he`s doing to what the others are doing. How many of you have seen the auctions for the 50`s Schwinn parts and accessories catalog, photocopied of course. I`ve seen as many as 20 auctions by the same seller going on simultaneously, every week of every month, same for the Dealer Announcement of Postwar changes, etc.
Mikes got a keychain sold for $5. what did the keychain cost him? What did it cost to make the two cd`s including the printer ink for his color intensive label that looks like the cover of the manual, the labels themselves and the cd`s with cases??? Nice proffit there Mike, How much did you have to take out of your pocket in order to sell that keychain ? Because I sure doubt that the $5. winning bid covered cost.

I`m going to contact Schwinn about the Service Manual on CD, for free, by me! And if I get the green light, I`ll be burning up a firestorm and givin it away for nothin. They can`t call it piracy because I`m not making printed books exactly like the originals and then trying to pass them for originals for a profit. I`m scanning it onto a different platform and supplying it for -Zero profit. They might go for that, I think it`s worth a shot to try. I`m also going to create a web page with the Schwinn factory serial numbers from 48 through 65, month by month, day by day. I`ll post my own hand typed code sheet, and it`ll be comprehensive.

   RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Counterpoint on 5/3/2002 at 5:18:35 AM
"everybody's doing it" dosent make it right. it means theres a crowd of bad nuts in the bag.

your always stuck on the money thing. money's not the point or the sin. though it certainly dosent cost anyone $22.50 to copy a couple pages of wheelie bar instructions. the sin is in the attempt to make money off other peoples work product, successful or not. in lots of places those people are called grifters.

schwinncol's special sin is being twofaced. squealing on everyone else while throwing up auction after auction of the same type junk.

you really think schwinncol paid for those keychains and trinkets? my local bike shop had 100s of those things. how many you want? take 'em.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Feeling bad for Guido.. on 5/3/2002 at 1:25:00 PM
Hey dude, Mike is using YOUR NAME in HIS AUCTION!
Here's a quote:

"I have cleared this with Brian "Guido" Crawford and he has given me the ok"

It looks to me like Mike knows what he's doing is illegal. Why else would he post your name??? And you didn't even know it??

Dude, he's getting YOU in trouble.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by huh? on 5/3/2002 at 6:41:16 PM
so then what are you doing when you turn around and make hundreds off of selling a stingray? aren't you making money off of someone elses creation? you didn't design that frame or chainguard or wheels. don't tell me its okay since they dont make them anymore!

   THE STUPID COMPARISON OF THE WEEK! posted by OH PLEASE! on 5/3/2002 at 7:36:27 PM
You can RE-SELL any and every object created. You cannot REPLICATE or COPY those objects and sell those copies if they are patented, trademarked, or copyrighted. You can obviously sell a Schwinn Sting-Ray, but you obviously can't have new frames built matching Sting-Rays, slap on Schwinn Sting-Ray decals and sell those.

Are you REALLY that stupid, or just a rationalizing jerk?

   RE:pick and choose, pick and choose posted by huh again?? on 5/3/2002 at 7:47:53 PM
so how do you explain maple island sales. they got frames, rims and everything. i dont see you complaining about them.

   RE:RE:pick and choose, pick and choose posted by duh!! on 5/3/2002 at 7:59:23 PM
what it boils down to is that you are no better than mike. just another dork with a personal beef. 'he goes around getting in everyones business' is what you basically said. isnt that what you are doing? what do you care if he copys this stuff? are you rohns lawyer? are you schwinns lawyer? do you hold the copy rights? how is this burning you? if rohn and schwinn are so burned on this, why arent they going after mike? when did they die and make you god? whats a matter, are you upset that you didn't think of it first? does it grind on you that someone else came up with this simple idea before you did?

   RE:RE:RE:pick and choose, pick and choose posted by ROTFLMAO on 5/3/2002 at 8:38:59 PM
Who here is missing a few spokes?

Which one of our posters is riding with broken chain?

Who here is the rusty nut?

Who here is stuck in first gear and still has their brakes on?

Who here has notched head bearings?

Who here is riding without pedals?

Who here still has their traning wheels on?

Which one of my little pinheads has two flat tires, on their unicycle?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:pick and choose, pick and choose posted by LMAOtoo on 5/4/2002 at 9:11:50 AM
You forgot:
Who here is riding their bike without a seat...just the post?

   I`m calling dib`s on the notched head bearings !! lmao posted by Guido on 5/4/2002 at 11:15:46 PM

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Unauthorized copies of Sting-Ray City News posted by Lee on 5/7/2002 at 4:48:39 AM
Wow, what a can of worms this issue is! As an artist I can relate to loosing out due to copying, and realizing that the "Stingray" was not named after the fish any more than the Schwinn "Jaguar" was named after a big cat : ) They were both the names of "sporty", popular, cars that Schwinn was trying to emulate in their bike line.

AGE / VALUE:   Bendix Bicycle posted by: Marci on 4/27/2002 at 3:17:34 AM
I picked up a cool red bike today and the only markings I found are a silver plate by the gear that says "Bendix". Any idea what it's worth or what I can look for specifically to find out the year it was made. Thanks!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bendix Bicycle posted by butnut on 4/28/2002 at 5:36:51 AM
I know Schwinn used the Bendix coaster brake setup. I'm assuming there is no Schwinn head badge or decals?...or chainguard lettering?. Maybe the bike was repainted. If so, there's not much value, especially if parts are missing. Look by the rear drop out (left side if you sit on bike) serial number should be right by the axle nut (if early Schwinn) or look at the head tube. Lower left side in front (where the head badge should be) see 2 tiny screw holes? Post the serial number for a date...if it is a Schwinn that is...big clue for Schwinn...welded on kick stand.

AGE / VALUE:   Old frame found posted by: Jimmy on 4/26/2002 at 10:20:48 PM
Hello, I found an old cantilever type frame in the junkyard today, its blue now, originally a rose color,then painted white, green, purple, and finnaly blue. it has pointed back tabs where the wheel connects. I think it might be a huffy, no headbage, and there is a really long headtube, it is 20".it has lucky seven sprockett.Any help with identification and serial numbers would help, i cant find them.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old frame found posted by sam on 4/28/2002 at 9:07:08 PM

AGE / VALUE:   I curse whomever cheapened the Alvit! posted by: Chris on 4/26/2002 at 9:58:04 PM
Looking at all these Huret Alvit derailers is interesting. They deleberately changed this model derailer so that you cannot repair or replace parts. More like it that they went from bolts and nuts where you can service it to a fixed system so when it breaks you have to replace it. I'm looking to pull it apart and you cannot. Also, no mixing old and newer versions. No mixing of parts between years.
I hate this plastic crap they put in it. They devilishly plugged the allen hole fitting with molten plastic and the WHAMMO! They changed it to a regular hole later on. It's no longer a allen key hole at all. I have a Zillion Alvits, and diagrams and books and origonal tools and I am doggedly persistent and I ain't afraid to drill or take it to a machinist friend and then look out ! The strange magic this guy conjures up! I was fiddling with one to use in a project. I got a real history lesson on the Alvit today! This kind of thinking was prevelant in the car dealerships and people got fed up and they are buying and enjoying the products from foreign companies. If it comes from stupid thinking, or if it fails my tests. Out it goes! Or it never gets in at all! I do my best to stay away from it.
My pal just said Uh Huh! smiled and laughed!

I drilled out the 515 and put in regular bolts and nuts. Also they went from thin metal washers to plastic. A regular agenda of cheapening this derailer.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   I curse whomever cheapened the Alvit! posted by Chris on 4/26/2002 at 10:20:50 PM
Did they think that plastic was more slippery and didn't need oil? The plastic that hardens and gets brittle and discolored? The bike I love and believe in is something that is handed down to children and used and handed down again to somebody else. Something wonderful that lasts. Years later, I'm dead and gone and the bike is still rolling along without me but with somebody else and it doesn't break on them.
I wish that companies wouldn't dare do that for fear of sparking a customer revolt where people en masse would return it and not ever buy the goods again. Where quality was guarded and protected and maintained. Instead of paying people to look over al old design and find ways to cheapen it, to cut corners. This isn't reverse engineering, What do they call this?
I save reciept's and if it breaks before it should Zam! back it goes. I'm off to customer service! I hate cheaply made anything.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I curse whomever cheapened the Alvit! posted by Kevin C. on 4/27/2002 at 9:40:04 AM
Same thing happened with automobile parts, TV sets, radios, storm windows, shoes, toasters, you name it. Parts used to be easily rebuildable, or at least replaceable. Now the whole idea is to throw as much stuff away as possible, and buy new. Sadly, it's the American Way in the year 2002.

MISC:   hike bike run posted by: rickey@knowlesbicycle334-756-7561 on 4/25/2002 at 8:14:04 PM

MISC:   Ann Arbor Show this Sunday posted by: steve on 4/25/2002 at 6:42:48 PM
This is it! The Ann Arbor Swap and show is this Sunday.

For a map or more info, go to www.ann-arbor-bicycleshow.com

See you there! The Biggest, the Oldest, the Best!

MISC:   What is a pedal proof wheel? posted by: Ed on 4/25/2002 at 3:29:32 AM
What is a pedal proof wheel? Is this a shielded wheel? Who made it and is it rare? There is a guy selling one on the Schwinn Forum. I emailed him but haven't gotten a response yet.

   RE:MISC:   What is a pedal proof wheel? posted by Cal on 4/26/2002 at 12:46:56 PM
Never heard of one. If it is anything other than just a large spoke cover, post more info here.

FOR SALE:   HOMEMADE CHOPPER BICYCLE FOR SALE posted by: Mario Romano on 4/24/2002 at 5:20:40 PM
Hello Friends,

I manufactured an chopper bicycle utilishing an Caloi Cruiser (brazilian manufacturer) frame. It have 75 cm forks with reinforcing plates. It's painted in solid yellow and have black mudguards and yellow chaincover. Nice 20 and 26 front and rear blue-anodized aluminum rims fiting 2.00 wide whitewall tires from Pirelli. The spokes are chromed and oversized for resistence. Green dices as valvecovers. Totally built in lowrider muscle style. Have NOS old Caloi adesives and badges. Asking US$ 349.99 by it. Buyer must take it to home!

MISC:   First year of the schwinn......... posted by: Jimmy on 4/23/2002 at 9:04:50 PM
Obviously The first year of schwinn bike with the two bars that come down to the lower tube was the basis for the first lowrider bike, what was the first year of this frame??Thanks

   RE:MISC:   First year of the schwinn......... posted by Cal on 4/24/2002 at 1:19:41 PM
Some people are going to say it was the '63 Sting-Ray (I think '63 was the first year of the Sting-Ray - have a look at the "Sting-Ray Summary" on this site to be sure)

Anyway, that style frame first appeared on the 26 inch balloon tire bikes in the late 1940s. I'm not sure when the first 20 inch (lowrider size) frame was made, but I would guess it was the early 1950s.

If you want to specify that banana seats and ape hanger handlebars are part of this discussion, then I'd have to say it was the Sting-Ray, or maybe even the Huffy Penguin.

   RE:RE:MISC:   First year of the schwinn......... posted by JimW. on 4/24/2002 at 4:22:18 PM
The Stingrays, Penguins, etc. weren't the originators of the style of taking a kiddy bike frame and putting hi-rise handlebars and a banana saddle, etc. on it. That was started in the late '50s, by California dudes who were doing it within the kustom/hot rod/surf culture. The big companies picked up on the trend and brought out their own production versions of the style. If the basic bike style is what you're basing your thesis on, you'd have to say that lowrider bikes were invented by blonde anglos.

   RE:MISC:   First year of the schwinn......... posted by Rob on 4/25/2002 at 6:34:20 PM
The birth of the Musclebike is chronicled in an article on www.raleighchopper.info Fun site, fun read. Its in the history section.
Still wanted... proof of Penguins existance... mail me if you have it!

   RE:MISC:   First year of the schwinn......... posted by Drew on 4/27/2002 at 11:51:12 AM
I do not haveany proof of the Huffy Penguin's existance, I did buy and resell one in 1990. My research at the time showed that about 175 were built in late 1962 as a marketing trial and they did not sell, therefore no more were produced. The one I had was a metalic red, except for the seat and handle bars, it lookded much like other Huffy's. Decal on the chain guard said 'Penguin' and 'Huffy' in small letters.

   RE:MISC:   First year of the schwinn......... posted by Catfood Rob on 4/28/2002 at 10:29:23 AM
Drew.... leave a valid e-mail.
Do you have a pic of the penguin????

AGE / VALUE:   What is it??? posted by: Amy on 4/23/2002 at 8:20:15 PM
Hi all, wondering if you can help me ID a bike. There are several numbers on the bike, one near the rear tire, two on the head tube. One of those on the head tube is 412747267, the others are shorter but none has any letters. White frame, banana seat, monkey handlebars. On the chain guard, a decal that says "seventy-six," other red, white, and blue decals in various spots on bike. On the gooseneck it says, "SR SWAN 60," underneath the seat it says "san marco italy." I hope this description is helpful, I am pretty clueless when it comes to bikes but this one has piqued my interest. Thanks in advance for your help,

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What is it??? posted by Cal on 4/24/2002 at 1:20:46 PM
Have you seen anything like it in the picture database? Do a query on all musclebikes.

FOR SALE:   Old Schwinn and Raleigh dealer Open House - 28-APR-02 posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 4/23/2002 at 3:47:54 PM


Ray's Cyclery (Maynard Massachusetts) is having a Vintage Bicycle sale on Sunday, April 28, 2002.
They are placing all of their new bikes downstairs and filling their shop floor with original Sting-Rays, Cycle Trucks, motorized bicycles, ballooners, European and English lightweights and other great vintage bicycles.
They've been a Schwinn/Raleigh dealership since 1969 and have some great bikes.
Click on the ad above for directions, pictures and more information.

VVVintage Vintage Bicycles

AGE / VALUE:   FOR SALE posted by: aaron on 4/23/2002 at 5:34:41 AM
i have a 1976 Schwinn scrambler boys single speed 20inch bmx stle bike. it is all original and in excellent shape im not sure if it had a chain guard or not. the tires sat schwinn scrambler on each of them. the chrome is excellent with no pitting and the paint is all there and in excellent condition. the bike was ridden by my girl friend for ten miles and works like new. the bike is blue with red decals and hand grips. for sale $125 obo i live in oshkosh wi call 920-424-3696 and leave a message thanks.