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Archived: Musclebikes (Sting-Rays, Krates, Choppers, etc.)

AGE / VALUE:   Roadside Aquisition posted by: John on 6/20/2004 at 2:21:31 AM
I just picked up a bike this afternoon that has a banana style seat, apehanger handlebars, 3 speed, shifter on the handle grip, speedometer, flared rear fender, etc. The name all over the bike is "The Londoner", and it was made in Japan. I brought it home, put air in the tires and rode it around. In my browsing the net for an hour or so, I've learned a lot about older bikes, but have been unable to come up with any information specific to this bike. This is the first old bike for me, and I'm concerned I may get sucked into the hobby. It reminded me of the purple stingray I had as a kid. I put air in the tires and rode it up and down the driveway. My kids are all laughing at me!
Any information regarding the manufacturer, retailer or where to go to find more info. would be greatly appreciated.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Roadside Aquisition posted by ziggy on 6/20/2004 at 7:24:20 PM
I think it's a repop piece that was meant to look like a sears or a huffy bike, but made in japan. The twist shifter wasn't on the old schwinns. I'm pretty sure that only the sears and huffy bikes had those shifters. Write down the serial number and search net for some info. The number is either on the headtube, on one of the rear dropouts, or under the crank tube. >: )

AGE / VALUE:   Chopper Forks! posted by: K.C. on 6/20/2004 at 1:44:30 AM
My son (12) is wanting to build his own chopper...At this time he is has a 20" Sears bike,he found at a yard sale...where would he find straight forks about 36+ inches long at...or what would be the best way to build them...thanks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Chopper Forks! posted by ziggy on 6/20/2004 at 7:38:30 PM
You can buy a clean set of forks from www.pschoppers.com for about 50$. The forks are ajustable to fit many differant rake angles. You will have to modify the headtube angle so the forks will fit. If you don't, the bike will be riding HIGH up in the air and it won't look good. Cut the top tube and the downtube behind the headtube. Then flip the headtube over and weld it back on to the existing frame tubes. Then cut a piece of plate so it will fill the new gap behind the headtube. This piece MUST be added, or else the frame will be very weak at the neck area since the rake angle was changed. Unless you have access to new tubing, I wouldn't try to build a set of forks if I were you. It's your first bike right? For now just buy the forks. Modifying existing forks is a bad idea. It's difficult to make modified forks strong. Buy the forks for this bike. When you think you're ready, try building your own set. I built mine from scratch, but I utilized an existing design, but with my custom touch. I have also built forks before, so I knew what I was doing. Hope my tips will help you. Good luck. You will need it. Trust me. >: )

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Chopper Forks! posted by K.C. on 6/20/2004 at 8:20:15 PM
Hey thanks for the info...I will look for the forks where you said and thanks for your time and info on the frame....K.C.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Chopper Forks! posted by K.C. on 6/29/2004 at 1:43:27 AM
Ziggy...I tried the add,you sent me about finding chopper forks but www.pschoppers.com didn't come up...said to check the spelling...was there something left out on the spelling...thanks again...K.C.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Chopper Forks! posted by ziggy on 6/29/2004 at 5:16:29 PM
Are you sure? Try looking up www.pschoppers.com on google. That should fiind it. (www.google.com) Hope you find the forks. >: )

AGE / VALUE:   swinger 1 posted by: Jeff Sutton on 6/19/2004 at 5:05:14 PM
I meant Swinger 1, not Swiner 1.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   swinger 1 posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/20/2004 at 1:45:56 AM
LOL man.... I don't know much about the "Swinger", but I bet if someone DID make a "Swiner", it would be a real pig!


Larry "Boneman" Bone

AGE / VALUE:   swinger 1 posted by: Jeff Sutton on 6/19/2004 at 5:01:32 PM
I found a bike that says "Swiner 1" on it. It was sold at JCPenny's. anyone have any info on it or any websites about it?

AGE / VALUE:   Tyler bike made in Poland posted by: Gene Metzger on 6/18/2004 at 7:59:45 PM
I came accross a old banana seat bike, the name on it is Tyler. On the front bage is says "made in Poland". Has anybody heard of this bike, is it a dept store special of a real bike brand???

Thanks for any help

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tyler bike made in Poland posted by Leon on 7/18/2004 at 2:23:49 PM
I don't know too much about this bike as information about them is impossible to find. But I was told Tyler was a polish division of Schwinn. I've had a yellow one since I was a child. My parents bought it new in 1976 but it looks much older ( like a miniature phantom). One fun feature of mine is that the "gas tank" can be removed to make it a girls bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tyler bike made in Poland posted by Leon on 7/18/2004 at 2:42:09 PM
I forgot to mention in my reply that I had purchased another Tyler from a local toystore around 1988. So, the company was still around as late as then. The bike is a 26" touring bike. Coffee brown with chrome fenders. It's not nearly as cool as the 16" child's bike....

FOR SALE:   Choppers 4 sale posted by: mike tebo on 6/17/2004 at 11:17:03 PM
See the choppers at www.2sk8.com
starting @ $500.00

   RE:FOR SALE:   Choppers 4 sale posted by ziggy on 6/19/2004 at 12:46:05 AM
Wow, looks like whoever built those stole brad grahm's frame design by using a pair of forks for the rearend. They won't last long either. There is no gusset at the neck. Immediate loss of structural strength. Don't buy these. Way too much for a piece of crap that is a copied design. (way to be original!) My ass. >: /

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Choppers 4 sale posted by none on 6/19/2004 at 11:19:40 PM
damn! starting at 500 dollars! theyre all the same jsut diffrent colors woohoo!you may be able to get 5 for it at a yard sale! theyre nothing special just another person making boring choppers

   RE:FOR SALE:   Choppers 4 sale posted by J.dude on 7/8/2004 at 6:35:56 PM
I build choppers but I only charge $150....

MISC:   Philsoof Musclebike posted by: David Taylor on 6/17/2004 at 1:03:11 PM
I recently aquired a Philsoof Musclebike which has been stored for over 30 years. I only know that it's a Philsoof because of the frame decal and also the headstock badge.

It looks similar to a raleigh chopper, except the Philsoof has a 5 speed frame mounted shifter, a metalic red bananna seat and twin beamed frame centre bars, rather than the Raleigh Chopper's single beam.

I have checked through various forums and also spent many hours on the web trying to find out details of this bike but I have had no luck. I can not even find out any details on a manufacturer called Philsoof let alone details of this perticular model!. I look forward to restoring the bike to it's new condition, but obviously I need to find a few things out about it, and of course I have to make my mind up as to whether it is financially viable to spend a reasonable amount of money on chroming, spraying, etc, i.e. if the bike is a financially worthless model, then I do not wish to make a massive loss on it if ever I chose to sell it in years to come.

Could any of you help me out with some information?



   RE:MISC:   Philsoof Musclebike posted by ziggy on 6/17/2004 at 8:48:31 PM
Philsoof!? What the hell is that? Never heard of it. !: 0

   RE:RE:MISC:   Philsoof Musclebike posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/18/2004 at 1:19:43 AM
Yeah. What Ziggy said. Whatever it is.... there is most assuredly a dearth of info on it anywhere. Checked numerous search engines myself... and of course, Ebay even. you would be surprised... Ebay can be quite the search engine in and of itself.

So... if nothing else, it's surely an oddball. You don't say much about the condition but if the plan is a complete re-spray... that would allude to it being a bit rough. If the tyres are original, perhaps they may provide a bit of a clue as well.

Perhaps a very thorough going over would be a good place to start?

Either way... it sounds interesting to say the least.

Good luck with it.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:MISC:   Philsoof Musclebike posted by David Taylor on 6/18/2004 at 8:14:51 AM
Larry / Ziggy,

Thanks for your replies.

Yeah, the bikes well rusty. It seems completely original though-even the brake cables dont ever seem to have been changed at any time. But it will need a respray and a full recrome, decals, etc. Gears work fine and wheels are true.

The weekends coming up, so like you suggested, I will check the bike out and see what I can find. Once I've cleaned it up a bit, I'll try and post some pic's on here...can we post pic's on here?....I dont know how to, but if it can be done, I'll find out how 2.



   RE:RE:MISC:   Philsoof Musclebike posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/18/2004 at 9:15:58 AM
Decals? Man... that could be one TALL order... tryin' to find original or re-pro decals for a Philsoof!

Well, best of success to you in any and all endeavors regarding the "restoration". I don't think pics can be posted here directly. Perhaps one of the seemingly innumerable sites that allow you to have photo albums.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Philsoof Musclebike posted by ziggy on 6/19/2004 at 3:33:44 PM
Hey, if you can restore that thing it could really be worth something! It may turn out that it is a Raleigh chopper/stingray knockoff, but who has ever heard of one of those!? Sounds like "extremely rare" could be a description of the bike. >: )

MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by: Ken Lunt on 6/15/2004 at 9:38:38 PM
Noticed a Schwinn at a bike swap in Maine, it had a decal on the top bar reading " Property of Schwinn Bicyle company-Product Developement". The bike had grey primer, serial # started BD...(don't have the numbers) it looked like a 1966-67 5-speed.

   RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by ziggy on 6/16/2004 at 10:52:25 PM
Schwinn might try to reintroduce the stingray. And I'm not talking about that "chopper" thing, which I still think looks stupid. But if they did reproduce the old stingrays, then the whole bicycle evolution/revolution might start over again. !: 0

   RE:RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/17/2004 at 9:36:20 AM
Well... sure seems that they plan on a re-release:


Not sure if it's "cool" enough or "eXtreme" enough for the kids of today. Hence, the "limited" numbers of the release would be indicative that they are targeting the "adult trying to re-purchase their childhood" market.

Additionally, it would appear to be sold only through "Independent Schwinn Dealerships". Which means that since they aren't selling it through Wal*Mart, they actually might earn a PROFIT on these bikes.

I wonder where they are being manufactured.

As to the "rebirth" of the bicycle evolution/revolution starting back up, well, I guess we shall see.

It is nice to see that bikes are once again being produced that have "Class" and "Character". Nothing against anyone that enjoys riding around on what to me seem like "Techno-Torture-Machines". After all, we all gotta do our own thing and if that's your cup of tea, that's great.

Me? I prefer the "Three C's", Class, Character and COMFORT.

Heck, my first "Two Wheeler" when I was a kid (I don't recall the brand) had a "tank" with a dual-bulb headlight in the front, solid rubber tyres, full fenders with a chrome airplane "hood ornament" on the front.

Eeegad... I digress...

As far as the forthcoming bikes... the "New Stingray", the re-issue of the original, the awesome stuff Nirve is coming out with... seem to indicate that the mfg's. have finally figured out that all of us are not out there pursuing "Technology for technology's sake".

So, again... I state simply... we live in interesting times.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by ziggy on 6/17/2004 at 8:52:54 PM
Ha Ha , repurchasing childhood! I agree that schwinn would actually make some profit off of them. Of course, the bike is only a "prototype", but we shall see. What "nirve" items are you talking about! Why are you always talking about them? What are you waiting for? Just wondering. >: )

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/17/2004 at 11:40:15 PM
heh heh... ya like that re-purchase observation, eh? Well... I'm guilty as charged fer sure!

As to the Nirve... There are methinks two coming out. The "Cannibal" and the "Razorback"

Check 'em out:



Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/18/2004 at 2:45:12 AM
Uhhh... correction.. NOT the "Razorback"... it's called the "Switchblade".

Not sure where I got Razorback from.... :-/


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by ziggy on 6/19/2004 at 12:40:32 AM
Those bikes look pretty cool. Although they are pretty basic looking. They also look a bit to "girthy" and too short for my taste, but the bottom line is that they're cool looking. >: )

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/20/2004 at 1:53:57 AM
Agreed, they are somewhat spartan. But... if you click on the pic, it takes you to a most interesting interview with the designer. He states that the design intent is to provide a "platform" that the purchaser can build on.

This would lead me to believe that there will be numerous add-ons that one can use to make the bike "their own". A very astute observation on his part actually. My observations of motoryclists, particularly "Cruiser" riders, is that yes, they procure a motorcycle from the showroom... but then add to it the accessories that make it interesting and in many cases more practical. Bottom line though... as I did with mine, things are added to make the bike "unique" and somewhat a reflection of the taste of the owner.

But yes... I must agree, they most certainly are cool! And that in and of itself, will set them apart from all the other "production" bikes you see hanging by the scores from the ceiling in Wal*mart.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by J on 6/28/2004 at 6:38:44 PM
Yes, it is true that schwinn is re-making the stingray.
I've been to two bike stores that had some. schwinn really did a great job, the tubes are all curved right and the paints and logo's look awesome! the only things I could find wrong with them were you could see the welds, and the chaingaurd edge looked a little off, but other then that they looked awesome! they even have the slick tire! they also remade the Krates too, they looked great as well (but no shifters). I'm not sure what they go for as both places wouldn't say. one said the ones he had were sold and the other hedged around telling me what they cost. I uselly build my own bikes (restore vintage or weld something up) but this is one I'd consider buying and not really doing too much too. (I want a stingray or krate frame and I cant find one!! aaahh!!)
I'll have to somewhat agree about the stingray chopper, it is kind of dumb looking, but it is sort of cool. I've built a few chopper bicycles and I can say mine were cooler :)
my main complaint about the "Occ stingray" is that back tire...everyone thinks it looks awesome and tells me I should build a bike like that, I personally thing its stupid, I mean its a bike, why the heck does it need a tire that wide?!?!

   RE:RE:MISC:   Stingray prototype's ? posted by ziggy on 7/3/2004 at 4:51:04 PM
Damn Straight! >: )

FOR SALE:   muscle bike posted by: roach on 6/15/2004 at 2:24:31 AM
wedged between a building and a mountainside I found a bike. it has an aluminum (or tin) nameplate that says sears
it has apehanger handlebars,a flared rear fender,a frozen crank, but the frame is cool it is a 20 inch, the double bars extend just a little past the front nameplate. and there is a single bar between them. it looks kinda like a stingray but apears to be streched a little longer (i think it is called a slingshot frame style).Anywho I would take like fifteen dollars and ten dollars shipping if anyone wants a cool looking bike to
rebuild. if so e-mail me

   RE:FOR SALE:   muscle bike posted by ziggy on 6/15/2004 at 5:49:13 PM
That sounds like a sears screamer. Popular in the late sixties/early seventies. Don't sell it. It's a classic. Take my advice and restore it. Then sell it and get a good profit! You don't see too many of those around anymore. >: )

   RE:FOR SALE:   muscle bike posted by mike on 7/4/2004 at 4:15:28 AM
i saw the advert of your ( bike ). which is place for sale when i
was just searching for used (bike). i want to know the offer price
.your urgent respond is highly needed.

WANTED:   wheelie bar posted by: marty on 6/10/2004 at 12:32:05 PM

   RE:WANTED:   wheelie bar posted by ziggy on 6/10/2004 at 8:37:10 PM
Those are rare aren't they? !: 0 You MAY have luck finding one on ebay, but the prices rise to ridiculous heights. You might as well just make one. You can build one if you use a picture of a wheelie bar as a referance though. >: )

   RE:RE:WANTED:   wheelie bar posted by Austin Davis on 6/19/2004 at 12:16:04 AM
Hello i live in missouri and i have 3 wbicycle whellie bras i would like to sell the are very durable i would sell them for around 50 dollars u pay the shipping if You are interested e-mail me thank you

Austin Davis

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   wheelie bar posted by chris on 9/30/2006 at 5:40:45 AM
do you still have any and are they hommade and do you have a picture

AGE / VALUE:   Ross apollo 5 speed posted by: tim on 6/10/2004 at 3:12:50 AM
I have a complete Ross Apollo 5 speed.Its a little rusted but probably can be cleaned up. How would I find out if its worth anything? Thanks in advance for any help.Tim

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ross apollo 5 speed posted by wade on 6/17/2004 at 12:46:05 AM
if it cleans up really well it may be worth around 200-250 on a good day.. bad day of course considerably less or if it can't be cleaned up too well.. much less

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ross apollo 5 speed posted by ziggy on 6/10/2004 at 8:38:00 PM
Write down the serial number and do some research. >: )

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ross apollo 5 speed posted by Isaac on 7/7/2004 at 7:47:52 PM
What color is it? I might be interested.

AGE / VALUE:   Carlisle Super Ride 20 X 1.75 N.O.S. and Cheap! posted by: Chris on 6/9/2004 at 9:27:00 PM
E- bay item #2249738783 Carlisle Super Ride 20 X 1.75
new never ridden.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Carlisle Super Ride 20 X 1.75 N.O.S. and Cheap! posted by Chris on 6/18/2004 at 5:16:17 AM
Hung back on the hook with disgust. Unsellable!
Consigned to the home to strange, wacky, and unwanted tires. Imagine me leaving thr tires on the doorstep withn a note!

Shame, a real shame!

AGE / VALUE:   Early 70s Rampar posted by: kevster49 on 6/9/2004 at 3:28:20 AM
I got an circa early 70s rampar banana seat bike at a garage sale for 5 bucks and im wondering if anyone knows anything about or what its value is?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Early 70s Rampar posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/9/2004 at 9:17:52 AM
Hmmmm... 3-speed? 5? Straight, angular frame or one with curves (like a Stingray)? Any "name" on the bike anywhere? If it's a 3-speed hub (Sturmey-Archer) it will have a date code stamped on it. Check that out. As to "Rampar", I don't recall precisely when Raleigh started using that name but I'm pretty sure it was much later.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

WANTED:   Pea Picker posted by: David on 6/8/2004 at 7:00:37 PM
Looking for a '72 or earlier Pea Picker w 5 speed shifter. Would like it to be as clean as possible, but i'm not opposed to having to have it repainted, and cleaned up. Also, best people to have it repainted close to original look with new decals if needed?

Thanks in advance.

   RE:WANTED:   Pea Picker posted by ziggy on 6/8/2004 at 11:29:16 PM
That model as well as other crate bikes are very rare these days. There is usually a couple on ebay though. However they go for big bucks, especially the ones with all original parts in good condition. If you see one with a "buy it now" option and the price is fair, go for it. >: )

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Pea Picker posted by Mark on 6/9/2004 at 2:54:52 PM
I wouldn't say any of the Krate bikes are rare at all. They are just very expensive. Do check ebay, some nice Pea Pickers listed there. Be prepared to pay.

AGE / VALUE:   1970 stingray fairlady posted by: michelle on 6/8/2004 at 3:44:41 AM
i have a 70 stingray fairlady, how do i determine the value. I also have a monark thunderbird bike w/headlight, not sure what year, would like to get some info , so if anyone out there could help me

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970 stingray fairlady posted by dude on 6/8/2004 at 7:07:09 PM
what is with all the people trying to get other people to do their research work. man this is the fun part of the business find out on your own the value and the type of bike you have. the internet is full of information. don't be so lazy, if you don't care about your bike, don't expect to make any money with it, just give it to somebody that will care to find out more about it on their own. if i tell you it's worth 10$ will you sell it to me for 10$ , probably not, you will try to find out the real price. SO START LOOKING

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970 stingray fairlady posted by michelle on 6/8/2004 at 9:46:45 PM
hey dude i have been looking on the internet, just dont seem to be hitting the right sites, if you know any that be great,until then i will keep looking,anyway i thought that was what a message board is, to see if others are interested in this topic and to see how to go about finding info,.thanks

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970 stingray fairlady posted by ziggy on 6/8/2004 at 11:31:53 PM
Unlike "dude's" helpful advice, mine is worth a try. There is a serial number chart on this site that might help you with the stingray, but you will have to look elseware for the value of the other bike. >: )